Bitcoin Forum

Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5146287.0

Archive: http://archive.fo/juMUY

@LoyceV @suchmoon do we have any scrap for this kind of thing?

Maybe @Theymos or admins can check IP in this case...

No matter the color, without a link for reference it worth zero, 99% of the time.
People are desperate...

I saw that post earlier and have been thinking about it for a few hours. After his follow-up post saying he had just sent two ratings to two users, I considered trawling all DT1 and 2 members to find a match. However, that wouldn't actually prove anything - it could well be someone else trying to frame a particular user, and making posts claiming that legitimate feedback has been bought/paid for. I also suspect that this post claiming to have sent two ratings is entirely fictitious, and only there to try to drum up interest in his scam. It could well be that he doesn't have a DT account at all and is just trying to get users to send him money. After all, who are they going to complain to? "I tried to buy trust and was ripped off?" I can't think of a faster way to get yourself red tagged.

The only sure-fire way to link this account to a DT user would be with IP logs or with documented proof of payment and feedback from someone who actually bought from him.

I don't. I'm half tempted to create an alt and try buying it but it's most likely a scam anyway.

I don't think DTs are sending thousands of green feedback daily but you are right this work (scanning) can be worth almost 0.

Sorry but I was referring to buying trust not to scrap :)

Added to the dog pile of red trust for this user, even though it is a throw away account. I'll watch this thread to see if there is anyone stupid enough to post on the open thread that they are interested.

I have Complete overview of users on DT1 and DT2 and their ratings (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5139250.0), it's "only" 450 accounts, including links to their Trust rating. So all it takes is 450 clicks and scroll down to see who left Trust today. Shall we devide the work load? I'll check DT2-members 1-100. Update: nothing there.
However, he's probably bluffing, chances are he has no DT-account at all.

I saw it too, but since it's self-moderated, I didn't bother posting there. I reported the post to be moved to Digital Goods (at best), the report is marked good but it's still in Services.

I don't think he'll reveal the account without paying, so there's no use.

I was thinking it's almost sure to be a scam, but it would be fun to send an undercover newbie to entrap this shitbird.  If you decide to do it I'll split the fee with you, that way you're not taking on the whole burden of the more-than-likely scam.

Its probably just a scammer trying to get some money by fooling others into believing they are a DT member. Who cares if someone makes a new account and says that they own a bunch of Rep and want to sell that for a few bucks? Its a easy method to scam newbies of this forum. Trust is something that is not bought. It is earned. If members of this forum follow that, then they wont be scammed by these lowlifes.

Keep piling that account with more red trust.

^^Are you able to scrape individual trust ratings? If you can, you could filter all the ratings sent prior to today and who has sent less than two positive rating today.

There is no DT1 or DT2 user (going by LoyceV's list he linked above) who has left two positive feedbacks today. There are 3 users who have left one positive feedback:

TheQuin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=143168) left feedback for Untold (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1121520)
frodocooper (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=988740) left feedback for helipotte (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=117085)
pandukelana2712 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1304130) left feedback for Hhampuz (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=881377)

Given that Untold and Hhampuz are already solid green trust, I think it's pretty unlikely either of them are buying trust, lol. And given that frodocooper is staff, I think it's equally unlikely that he is selling trust.

In short, this scammer is, well, scamming.

Paying a scammer will only lead to more of them doing the same.

I can, but it's a pain to process the data. If it's just 450 pages, checking them manually is less work.

Good job! I've tagged him as a scammer.

Of course you're right, and that's not the outcome I want.  And this is in all likelihood nothing but a phishing scam.  The only reason it would be worth the risk is if there was evidence a real DT member was behind this. 

With all the new guys being added to DT 1 and 2 monthly it's quite possible this trust selling shit is happening or will be happening. This particular user may be bluffing this time but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

I would say at a minimum DT users need to always leave a reference link when leaving trust to show the trust is/can be justified and tracked.

I am suspecting this is just a scam attempt. No one selling positive feedback's but that scammer want to make fool greedy users. Because if anyone selling that positive feedback that it will be very easy to catch him. Just need someone to try to buy from that user. Since thread is self moderated I think that user already scammed other user. No one will expose themselves even they got scam because of red tag.


Whoever don't have positive trust they might try to catch him. Perhaps that scammer will not allow newbie account. Because he might know may be someone will create alt account to catch him. But still I believe this is just a scam attempt.

Its not that quite easy to catch someone who is abusing the trust ratings of DT because of the current often changing DT2 trust list but the user with green trust will get into attention from the members if they are involving in scam or attempt.

Good catch as I thought we have only a few DT rating/day and is very easy to find if he was selling or if was a scammer.

trust without any reference should be disregarded.. wouldn’t this fix most of the problem?

I bet what he just did was troll all you guys and it worked marvelously..

I am wondering that how many user fell for it. I do not think those who got scammed  in name of merit selling and trust selling will be reporting about the scam.

No, they wouldn't expose themselves about this shady behaviour. Everyone know if they attempt to buy green trust and if its exposed then they will receive negative trust. So we can say this is a silent scam, nothing else.

Everyone can fabricate a fake deal, even the payment for this service can be used as a proof of transaction if needed. So it's not that easy to say that it's just scam. Announcing it on the forum can be quite tricky, tho. It will be easy to get him if you use developed alt account, coz I don't think he will send anything to newbies/jr.

No, that's retarded. If someone got scammed by a member, they can always create a new fake account to report the scam? They don't have to reveal the account that was buying the service but can always report the seller. Getting a fake account tagged wouldn't make any difference to them.

if they were to present pms (or any other means of private communication) to prove a scam occurred, their identity would be revealed to the seller, who in turn could reveal the name of the buyer's account.

True, but they don't have to present the PM's or the obvious screen-shots right? They can just say they got scammed by the particular service and other members must be careful before using it. I know the DT's and such will ask for the proofs but given the account's risk, I think a simple reference to the service thread should be enough.

Will you bother to take any action if there is ZERO proof? I don't think so. If some newbie claim verbally that they got scam then no one will believe if there is no minimum evidence. If buyer provide evidence like chat history or PM then will not seller expose original buyer? Then they will attack each other, that means seller and buyer both will be exposed. That's why I think still there is no any scam accusation. 

It really doesn't matter he is allowing newbies or anyone else but most concerning thing is that this guy is offering a service which is completely destructive for this community. Obviously its a scam trap for them who are expecting green trust in a easiest way. Its true that having green trust without valid reference doesn't make sense here but weight and symbol of green trust is enough for a user to commit fraudulent activity easily on bitcointalk. I believe most of the users rely on just green trust symbol blindly and that can make unrecoverable damages.

This post is as far as I've read in this thread, but I looked at the reference one and I'd say it's 99.99% likely it's just some scammer making an offer to fleece some sucker desperate for green trust.

He quickly got negged to hell, but I added one more just to be a mean bastard.  Hopefully nobody actually falls for this and sends this dumb fuck any money.

I can definitely tag the account in question and ask them to respond in the thread. Selling trust - A thread with that title calls for an instant negative trust anyway. Moreover, tagging the account doesn't help much as these scammers keep creating them after one is tagged.

Yeah but we are talking about someone selling green trust which doesn't need any additional proof except the created thread.

Opening scam trap and waiting for hunting is pretty much similar with exposed one. Difference is in first thing he is trying and on second one he completed his job successfully. Isn't it better to stop before its done completely? Prevention is always better than cure and its seems like that for this case IMO.

Obviously seller will tagged instantly if open this kind of thread and got so many red tag as well. Never mind if he cheating or really selling. Trust seller can't be trusted anyhow. But it was just my suspicions, that seller just trying to scam peoples. Its just a scam attempt in my opinions. 

At this point, he wrote another fake message: :)


by the way attention to the timezone, his day can be +12/-12 hours so it can be another day from ours.

I posted the below to his thread, which I found deleted this morning:

Lol. This may well be part of what he is doing

The real point is that in these cases this type of setup is used to extort money. Suppose user "A" has some reputable account and user "A" decided to contact with the scammer. Then scammer will save the proof and demand payment because scammer threaten to destroy the User "A" reputation with the proof.

In, second case, even if scammer do not threaten but you are already scammed and you will not show the proof that you are attempting to do something like this.

I understand that forum do not moderate scam but threads of Merit selling/Account selling/Trust selling should be trashed in this forum.

Thank you for bringing it up here.
This is certainly an abuse of the system. It must not be done.

But what about the green trust which is given for reasons like-

[bought a X, he sent me first, paid later]
[Escrowed for him]
[Sold a Y, he paid first]

How much weight does this feedback carry?
Aren't both almost same?

It's up to the reader to decide how to value feedback. But indeed, instead of "buying" (with a almost certain risk of getting scammed) feedback for $40, doing an actual trade can be a much cheaper way to get green trust.

As much weight as you decided it deserves.

There is no real way to quantify a degree of trust. A rating is either positive, neutral, or negative. Yes, there is the "risked bitcoin amount", but that is rarely accurate, difficult to verify, and common abused by people wanting to give their ratings more weight. There is no "mild positive" or "strong positive". Trusted and untrusted is simply a function of the design of the trust system, and you might find some untrusted feedback to be more helpful to you than some trusted feedback.

If you are seeing ratings you don't agree with, then it is a good time to think about starting to set up your own custom trust list.

The irony in doing this:  the person if they got the positive trust;  would deserve it for what they are doing....

But obviously its a scam, now hes -9999 trust, made me chuckle.

Didn't expect you are so dumb, see what LoyceV said. That's what I was referring to.

Meh, I did bought few things from 0.25 or something till 1.75 BTC when I send first whiteout escrow or anything.... and by items been send properly, packed with much care, tracking nr etc...., also with customs problems that are instant taken care of by very fast responding etc

That deserves GREEN trust imo, much more as other things I read some times... Things being bought and sold is where the trust I most needed for!