Bitcoin Forum

you have probably heard these terms before, but what is the "real" bitcoin?
Bitcoin is not what some site like bitcoin.com or bitcoin.org or reddit,... says is bitcoin! Bitcoin is definition of a payment network that has certain characteristics and principles that make it "Bitcoin". if one of those stops being true, then bitcoin is no longer going to be bitcoin.
so lets review two of these principles:

A decentralized network based on majority's decision using proof of work
in other words the 1 CPU 1 vote that Satoshi Nakamoto mentions in his bitcoin paper in 2008 titled Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System.
as a result when more than 95% of the network is doing one thing, and you do something else, you would be considered an altchain with an altcoin.
https://i.imgur.com/DB2pp4U.jpg


Irreversible transactions and immutable blockcahin
this is the second most important principle after decentralization. it simply states that when your transaction is in a block, nobody should be able to reverse it. this has always been true for bitcoin due to its decentralized network and distribution of mining in a way that nobody controls enough hash power that can pull a 51% attack.
but when 1 miner can easily decide to reverse a transaction that he doesn't like (https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-cash-miners-undo-attackers-transactions-with-51-attack) it shows centralization of that chain + its lack of immutability and as a result it is no longer a cryptocurrency let alone be "real bitcoin".

You are providing the truth but with wrong example.
The discussion about which one is the real bitcoin chain is fairly simple, the one decided by (majority of miners). That's the only and valid reason.
Bitcoincash miners came together to undo an profit made by an attacker. It's not just a miner but all miners in two of it's largest pools. They did it because they were sure it's for the good of Bitcoincash. It does not mean bitcoincash is centralised.

Satoshi never said that 1 CPU = one vote, in fact he predict the mining farms. And overall it's not that important what details of implementation were favored or disfavored by Satoshi - what is important is how close the software to the core ideas of Bitcoin that were presented in whitepaper. No one thought about things like Lightning Network back in 2009, yet here we are, extending Bitcoin to face new challenges.
The fact that Bcash mining is centralized is not its biggest problem - any coin can become like that under some circumstances, what is problematic of bcash is that its model is unsustainable in the long run, big blocks will cause irreparable damage to the network which turns it into inherently centralized protocol.

My apologize but I didn't quite understand.. you mean that these BCH big blocks will damage every coin or only the centralized coins in a long run?

Though big blocks were not as useful as they were thought to be, there's no reason for a big block to cause damage to the network. Experiment and implementations would keep on coming in crypto and they would be useful for each other. I'm not a supporter or opposer of any crypto but a fair competition and discussion would surely make all cryptos better and stronger.

I could not agree more. We have to understand that bitcoin is like an ecosystem or even an organism if you wish and it is evolving to meet the current challenges it is facing. I am sure that Satoshi Nakamoto understood this reality back when he started this all and therefor he is very much open-minded to possible positive changes in the future. The most important here is that the principles of bitcoin remained the same and we should always be guided with them.

Your question is irrelevant.Every bitcoin user knows that BCH and all the other forked altcoins that are using the name "bitcoin" aren't bitcoins. ;D

They can call daisy a rose but we know better and they could not deceive especially intelligent people of the bitcoin community. So why is that forked altcoin still successful? Simply because they are good in appealing to greed and the management are doing well on this aspect. Greed is a big business in any industry and billions can be made if one is on-point with it. The only real bitcoin is, of course, bitcoin nothing more nothing less and it is not owned by Craig Wright (lol).

it was 1 miner running 2 different pools controlling a big part of the hashrate and it was not an "attacker" because they forked it themselves on May 15 allowing spending of these transactions.

it is right there in bitcoin paper. existing of mining farms is not negating that. a mining farm is multiple CPUs which have as much vote.

that is the biggest problem! it is simply giving all the power and decision making to that miner.

he is talking about the fact that you won't be able to run a node if blocks were big (which they aren't in BCH since they are empty due to lack of usage) so eventually only big servers and maybe government agents start running nodes and then they can track and censor your transactions and that kills yet another principle of bitcoin.

BCH will only damage itself, it doesn't have any major influence on crypto as a whole. But it will only happen under the circumstance that big blocks will actually become full, which is actually pretty hard to achieve - for that to happen they need to have a lot of users, more than Bitcoin currently has by a factor of 5 or even 10 - and currently they barely have any users at all, and most of BCH transaction volume is fake. The more realistic scenario is that BCH will die because no one will use it rather than too much people will use it.

You guys are fighting like dogs. Satoshi Nakamoto only wanted to make a decentralized cryptocurrency which can solve all the problems with payment networks. Of course, there are other payment methods to like PayPal or Skrill. And many more others but Satoshi's Bitcoin was unique because he implemented and also invented the blockchain technology with it.

I couldn't agree more Satoshi Nakamoto create it for us to have a decentralized currency a currency that couldn't be controlled by the government,
Satoshi made it for us to feel the financial freedom,
And we all know that Bitcoin is only one and there is nothing more but an alt-coins.

In the name of Satoshi and going through the vision words, that does not do her best. Some data may be misleading. Tron claims he's a record-breaking everyday, but Ethereum is still a better platform!

The real bitcoin is the one we know and that currently have the largest market dominance. The one that has no suffix after its spelling. No single miner can reverse any transaction in a block in bitcoin network, what CZ was proposing was a like a cooperation from the mining community over the stolen 7000 bitcoin from binance, although the bitcoin community expressed their anger for his statement, I think he would later apologized.

The best thing to do if you don't like what someone else is doing is to not talk about it.  The mega haters are just bringing more attention to CSW and Satoshi's Vision, they are falling right into his trap.

Thanks for sharing this but I can tell that all of the people here can understand that all of the altcoins that use bitcoin does not mean they are really bitcoins.

Satoshi's mission and vision were almost the same as Elon Musk. It's just that, he wanted to find another solution from another problem besides the problem we were facing from the financial system and that is to have a faster transaction. And that another problem to solve is to have a decentralized cryptocurrency. I can tell that RPG games influenced Satoshi's mind. Because of me as a former RPG gamer, I can so much agree that we were using those decentralized RPG game currency for our transactions with the same gamer and they will accept it.

There are a lot of altcoin that claims to be the real bitcoin. We all know that the only bitcoin is bitcoin core and all the fork coins are just fake bitcoin. I agree, each has their own belief just ignore what things that you don't like to read or hear. A lot of people will claim their coin is the real bitcoin.

No, miners must comply with Bitcoin's consensus rules, which are enforced by all full nodes on the network.

For example, miners could begin mining a chain that inflates mining rewards beyond 21M bitcoins. The network of full nodes, however, would ignore that hard forked chain as invalid and the mining rewards would be worthless. So, miners will only build on a chain that the Bitcoin network accepts as valid.


Effectively, it was done by two pool administrators who used their collective hash power to 51% attack Bitcoin Cash to reverse previous transactions. This does suggest Bitcoin Cash is pretty centralized since it took very little coordination to successfully attack the chain.

Some people are just claiming some altcoins as Bitcoin so that they could attract investors.
Just like Craig, he's claiming to be the real Satoshi to make people believe that he's coin could strike high like Bitcoin.
Their purpose is just to deceive us but we should know that there's only one Bitcoin existing.

Bitcoin, in my view, is fluid as an idea and construction, similar to the U.S. Constitution. So we can say the whitepaper is the Bill of Rights, but its interpretation is not fixed. The market determines the real from the fakes. Thus far, the market has determined that the real bitcoin is the coin that currently has the greatest market capitalization.

The "Real Bitcoin" has become synonymous with the marketing strategy that Roger Ver is pushing to confuse people into believing that Bitcoin Crap is the "real Bitcoin" and nothing else.

Their whole idea from the start was to create confusion with the "new" investors and to get people to buy the wrong coin, thinking that Bitcoin Crap <alias - BCash> was the real Bitcoin <BTC>   ::)

when I see words like "What's the real bitcoin." I remember the governments, and the crypto community is always saying that cryptos are good things because they give freedom because of the decentralization. But the same people who talk badly about governments because of the centralization, corruption and dictatorship of governments. are the same people who create centralized Altcoins, create altcoins to just get rich and famous.

The problem with these Hard Forks is not because they want to see a "real bitcoin". but because they want to have control of a currency that is already known and used by many people. We are talking about profit and dictatorship.

If Bitcoin (BTC) was created many years ago by satoshi Nakamoto, why the hell would someone say today that the same bitcoin is no longer true? would be the cause of the code? because of the whitepaper?

Each year we are faced with new technologies and challenges, If by consensus the community improves the code and introduces more technologies, this does not mean that bitcoin is no longer bitcoin.

While they are just forked bitcoin still they are standing for bitcoins name and that made them bitcoin as well,but the true one is the one who’s in number 1 position now

And even without Satoshi telling us,still all of us know that bitcoin or BTC is the true and legitimate one

Something that was done since crypto came into existance. Every scammer wants people to believe in them until they pull the plug and leave everyone in the darkness.

He is a person with a 12-year old brain who is using his own name to promote their shitcoin to be the real bitcoin which is actually a copycat of the original one. Whether it is the real satoshi or not is irrelevant here. Even if he was, he would not be able to prove it and neither do we need him to. Satoshi went dark for their own reasons. There is no need for any more drama on that.

never did I know that BCH has this kind of mining operation and it seems not really important because the coins being received from the mining is just only a percentage on the transaction being processed besides, the coins also needed for the basic needs of the miners in their daily life which means that the coins will be again recycled in the market from them selling it.

In regards to Satoshi Vision with bitcoin it is very commonly known that bitcoin is design to decentralized transactions to avoid third party issues and with the blockchain technology things could be done anonymously to which it can protect one identity in doing volume of transactions with bitcoins. However, many are abusing it also and this is the problem with other users to which exchanges now implementing KYC.

Satoshi's vision is to get financial freedom by creating decentrelised currency with every transaction transparent . Even current corrupt government banning bitcoin where their actual fiat currency doesnt have any transparency or Supply limit or Duplicate Fiat currency is major threat . Satoshi want to solve all these issue had with traditional fiat currencies.

The mysterious Satoshi Nakamoto discovers the Bitcoin and disappears for the undefined time, but he has given his vision through the Bitcoin and framed it into the feature list of Bitcoin.

I don't understand. Do you mean that the "Bitcoin" that we are using right now is not the real "Bitcoin"? I guess that will obviously happen since Satoshi Nakamoto left, and its been so long without him and that will obviously make his plans out of work. As far as I know, that is the objective of BCH where they are aiming to make the goal or vision of Satoshi though most of the investors look at that fork as a money maker, free money to be given and BCH is said to be an altcoin. I don't know the truth here but since it is a fork of bitcoin that we are using now, that means it is an altcoin, right?

For block blocks, you cannot change any transactions that have made when 8 confirmed. You can change the entire transaction if all previous blocks have been changed, so this is not possible. You cannot control space in Bitcoin's blade network so it will not be possible to change any of the previous blocks.

I think most of us missed the point of this creation Bitcoin is made for freedom for peer to peer payment,
But most of us are taking it as an investment we don't want to use it as a payment method ,
We only see it as an investment to get an easier life to gain some profit most of us see's it as a way to get rich .

i think you need to read OP again. you are either so out of the loop or misunderstood my entire post.
the fact that they forked without consensus and only with a tiny hashrate shows they are not aiming for "Satoshi vision" at all. and the recent roll back attack proved once again that this altcoin is centralized and from that moment is no longer immutable either.

Now, Satoshi is disappear. But if he still develop, I think he will change something like other Cryptocurrency do.
Attact 51% can't do if you change from POW to POW or DPOS or newer version.
Or "Irreversible transactions and immutable blockchain". We can do that if every country also have your computer connect to Network of Bitcoin.

There are really one of the most important characteristics or principles of bitcoin . If we stick to the principles , I believe it would help protect us against potential takeover. They are what make blockchain unique

"I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume -- Satoshi Nakamoto

For the fact that Satoshi didn't tell his name would reflect to thw his vision of decentralization in the blockchain technology. The vision is very clear, to take away those central authorities ruling the world just to have self gain rather than to serve.

Op Ed: How Many Wrongs Make a Wright? ...
- https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/op-ed-how-many-wrongs-make-wright/

+

This thread topic seems to be in the wrong board ...

See here ...

- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5148607.0

Move here ...

- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4985868.msg51376652#msg51376652

 ;)

And the problem lies in that the people came in the post-BCH era did not do their due diligence on what is correct and what is false. They probably went to blockchain summits that are organised every year and then came across RogVer as his chaplains who are ready to promote their own shitcoins and FUD the original real bitcoin. The poor venture capitalists being naive fall for it, even though they realized it later on the damage to their money is already done.

Even putting your coins in these shitcoins today is very risky. Such people are ready to dump at every small buy order.

most of those who put their money in these coins are doing it in hopes of big profit from the pumps they know these centralized altcoins get from time to time and based on the past they keep their hopes up but the problem is that they are not familiar with the altcoin pump and dump market so they end up losing money to their schemes.

but that is not the biggest problem because these people know what they are getting into. the bigger problem is when they fool newcomers into buying the wrong thing thinking they have bought bitcoin only because the site that ended with .com called it "bitcoin"!!!

I think bitcoin will remain the "real" bitcoin, and people should always invest on it and not on bitcoin x or y, anyway they do what they want with their money, but i like that Satoshi create bitcoin and give a good opportunity for people who join crypto. But i think miners will not reverse the chain because if will do so they will lose.

One of the reasons why people ended up calling bitcoin a scam. The copy-cats are made to make money for the conmen behind them not like the community supported real bitcoin.

But those newcomers are mostly fed by koolaid gangs to buy the shitcoins. This has a fault on part of the investor because they are blinding believing everything they are told without going their research. We cant help it much but promote the use of real bitcoin and make others aware of the wrong things that can happen if they put in money into these trashcoins.

BitcoinSV or BSV is just another one of many altcoins out there.

Bitcoin is bitcoin, bitcoinSV is bitcoinSV, they are two different things. Different code, different blockchain, different miners, different rules.
It might be an instance of some of the original bitcoin code, but that does not mean it IS bitcoin, its just started as another instance of some of the original code.

BSV is completely centralized in its coding, its management (by someone who appears to be mentally ill), by its hashing power, and soon to be by its nodes too. Nobody is using it, and there is no reason to use it when bitcoin is already there.

Dont waste your time on it, stick to the real deal.

This topic is okay but there is a doubt about the example. If you think about it, it will be properly understood which one is correct.I think they came with a good purpose.

BSV nodes are centralized too, they always have been. Craig is what BSV is built around, and this shows with how the supporters of BSV ask others what they do in the BSV camp if they don't like Craig himself.

All these silly BSV supporters are doing is show how centralized and mentally retarded their whole ecosystem is. They support Craig and not necessarily BSV, which means that they will follow him even if he supports something else.

The same applies to Bcash. It's just Roger and Jihan with one main developer being Amaury Sechet. These guys can fork and re-org as many times as they want and whenever they want....

Satoshi's vision was vast which is hidden behind the bushes of the show-off world. The real Satoshi's vision behind inventing Bitcoin and its underlying technology called blockchain that he thought so far in the era when even technology was also young.

I think Satoshi created Bitcoin because he wanted to change the form of human payment. Satoshi can see the disadvantages that FIAT brings, so he created Bitcoin in the hope that it brings better things. Governments are controlling people because they reserve FIAT. To change this, Satoshi created Bitcoin.

Satoshi's very advanced thinking turned out to have a good impact for many people, including me, the creation of bitcoin greatly changed the paradigm of many people about the payment system.

This topic is not talking about that. We know that satoshi has proposed that and this topic tells about the scammers trying to impersonate satoshi and trying to get people to buy their own shitcoin.

I wont say that it changed the payment system but it brought in a new type of a payment system or in a broad sense, a new monetary system. Of course some people are envious of that and they want to get a piece of it for themselves. So they try the darker methods of making money that is this whitecollar crime and imposing themselves as true creators of bitcoin thus misleading people.