Bitcoin Forum

Disclaimer: I'm an investor in both projects, so I'm biased.

So recently I've been reading up A LOT on decentralized trading, and peer to peer transactions. All these complaints on KYC submissions on various exchanges makes me confident that DEX's is gonna blow up in the future. This is EXACTLY why I decided to buy into Komodo, since I believe they'll be a huge player in the next alt season. Their Atomic DEX provides peer to peer trading via atomic swaps, but their recent test transactions took about 9 minutes, and that's quite som time to sit and wait compared to centralized exchange trading, hence why I understand why people don't like the DEX solutions currently available.

Next we got Stakenet, who's building a Lightning DEX, providing offchain peer to peer transactions, with near instant transactions, and lower fees. Lightning hasn't been easy to implement on Bitcoin, and there's a lot of doubters, but from what I've seen, this looks extremely promising, for a lot of reasons:

1) Nobody needs to sync with the DEX to use it, since all the chains is held by the masternodes running the DEX.
2) No KYC
3) No Registration process, just straight trading.

Comparing these 2 projects is hard, but it's obvious that I'm actually starting to be way more bullish on Stakenet, since I believe instant transactions will make people actually USE the DEX.

Not a fan of the whole "Binance DEX", since it's not a DEX in the first place. All the transactions is verified by Binance themselves (they own all the nodes), which isn't decentralized at all.

I'll hold both projects, since Komodo is the "safer" investment for now I guess, but I'm sure Stakenet will eventually outperform them.
Thoughts? :)

Is it already alive?
I have a question that i wanna ask the team about that and when the atomic swap will be alive and how can i get the best rate to swap my token? this should be the main question in the atomic swap service but it looks like stakenet needs more time to go.
Komodo has very well explained about its atomic swap mechanism.

The team behind Komodo recently did a test swap on their DEX, and I believe it took like 9 mins for a trade. It concerns me a lot, since I don't think the vast majority of people is gonna care that much, when centralized exchanges offers the same, but faster?
This is why I made this thread - I truly believe Stakenet's DEX solution is superior compared to KMD. Time will tell though  ;)

Komodo is a decent project, which I've been following since the start of 2017, had a great run and their developers seem to know what they're doing. I did see their Atomic Swap test, and was impressed by it, but quickly realized that it's gonna take some real nerds to actually believe in it, and use it for daily trading. It's slow when you think about it. 9 seconds seems like a quick trading time, but in reality, it's like using the internet with 56kbit modem back in the early 2000's.

I believe Stakenet's DEX solution is far more promising, with near instant transactions, privacy, and lower fees. Sure it's a newer project, and they have to prove themselves more than KMD, but it looks promising so far.

I too am an investor in both projects and think they have potential, but will release it in different ways in the future.

Key-point of Komodo is not DEX, they have different services for different meanings.
Key-point of Stakenet is building a LN blockchain and everything has its focus on this, DEX is one of their services.

Komodo is less focussed than Stakenet, so it's less performing from a blockchain-perspective, since their purpose is providing different services each one independent from others.
While Stakenet has all its services which rounds around their Blockchain and devs focussed their energies to make it perfect.

I mean, they will be both great in the future, but the core logic of their development is different, so it's hard to compare them!

(if the post only meant a DEX-perspective.. well, Stakenet wins, no doubt)

Komodo team spent ICO half a year ago. Their project, Red Fox, fails like the entire Barterlly and K64 ecosystem.
For example, the price RFOX for 6 days fell by about 50 percent.
August 26, price  0.0392
August 31, price  0,0214

I look forward to more competition in this field, but I think lightning swaps will put Stakenet miles ahead of the competition for some time to come.

Most times "decentralization" is just a fad,what concerns people is "CONVENIENCE"

Why not both? Let's compare buying an altcoin the traditional way vs. buying an altcoin with Stakenet:
1.) Traditional way - register an account at a centralized exchange and possibly wait x amount of days for withdrawals to be enabled from the account so you can send BTC there and, finally, buy the alt whenever the BTC finally comes through (that in itself can take forever). From there, install the alt's wallet on your computer and then send it back to that wallet.
2.) Send BTC to Stakenet Wallet, press a button to swap and maybe another to confirm the swap. No centralized authorities, no waiting for an account to be "verified", no accounts! Just your private wallet and your private keys.

Agreed, and Stakenet is exactly that. I think you'd be surprised if you actually tried out their new multi currency wallet. (with Lightning swaps, and TOR integration). It's in beta testing, so you need to join their Discord server, and ask to test it, from what I've seen and heard, it works pretty damn well!
Still waiting for an official release :)

What coins can you trade on first and what coins can you trade n second exchange? Can you list them please.

There are 2 types of ways you'll be able to trade.

Atomic Swaps
Lightning Swaps

You can do atomic swaps with a lot of coins, way more projects have integrated atomic swaps, compared to Lightning Swaps (For now).

To begin with, you'll be able to trade: BTC/LTC/XSN over Lightning, and as soon as USDT moves to Lightning as well, it's gonna be added as well I'm sure.
This means that you'll be able to spend XSN EVERYWHERE where BTC is accepted as payment. These cross chain transactions will make XSN useful in many ways, including Cross Chain Staking (Check their roadmap). It basically means, you'll be able to STAKE XSN, but instead of recieving XSN, you can choose to recieve BTC or LTC payments instead. So by holding your XSN on a hardware device, you'll be able to make passive BTC gains in the future, which is pretty damn cool ;)

As always, do your own research on the project!

Which is EXACTLY why Stakenet is such an awesome project. The Stakenet DEX don't need your personal info, accounts, or anything like that, but one of the best parts is, you don't need to sync up with the network before you start trading either, as all the chains is hosted by the nodes running the DEX.
Not only that, but you'll be able to trade instantenously, with very very low fees.

THAT's "CONVENIENCE" to me at least :)

Not all projects that called themselves a DEX are the same.  Saturn.Network for example is a true DEX, don't Trust - Verify..
"Saturn Network is decentralized exchange for trading Ethereum & Ethereum Classic tokens. Saturn Network is censorship free featuring automated token self-listing and wallet to wallet trading with no deposits or withdrawals required. All paid trading fees are reimbursed with SATURN tokens, and all collected trading fees are shared among SATURN token holders."
1. NO KYC
2. All on change orderbooks
3. Projects are free to self list

It's nice to see a lot of DEX solutions launching these days.
The Saturn.Network, does it ONLY work with ERC20 tokens? Kind of sucks if it doesn't even support LTC, BTC, or any of the other major coins out there?
Also, I doubt trading is instant, since it would be a centralized solution in that case. Only way to do instant transactions on a DEX, is by using Lightning to route payments back and fourth.

I'll do my own research on the project, thanks for posting man :)

Have you checked to see how long it now takes  to transfer on komodo? I assume transactions took that long in the past because it was being tested...

I guess the masternodes are rewarded for this?


This doesn't even qualify as decentralized exchange. Shouldn't have been called a DEX. 
I bet the developers would say they took this route for the sake of speed and capacity.

I dont know much about stakenet but do they have any actual products or DEX to try?

Komodo just made their atomic dex beta public. So that is a product you can get your hands on and test right now.
Seems like stakenet still has a long way to go before any tangible product is out.

https://atomicdex.io/

works on both ios device and android

Well, it transaction times depend on the coin pairs you want to trade, but I can assure you that none of those trades will be even remotely close to being instant, which bothers me a lot, as I don't see why anyone would sit there and wait, when they could trade instantenously on a centralized exchange?

Yes, the masternodes are rewarded for any dApp they run. The DEX is just ONE dApp which will run on Stakenet. Another dApp currently in open BETA testing is their multi currency wallet with inbuilt lightning swaps, and TOR-integration. The DEX will be implemented into it later on, so you'll have everything in one place. This allows for a lot of cross chain transaction capabilities, including but not limited to: CCPOS (Cross Chain Proof Of Stake), which means you'll be able to STAKE XSN, and be rewarded in BTC if you'd like.



Stakenet's Lightning DEX is actually close to being finished, and their multi currency wallet is in open BETA currently. These will be 2 dApps, powered and run by the masternodes.

Komodo has been in the game for much much longer than Stakenet, yet Stakenet is progressing extremely fast, considering the things they build is worlds first.

To name a few:

TPOS - Trustless Proof Of Stake. First Cold staking solution, invented and coded by the Stakenet team
Multi Currency Lightning Wallet, with inbuilt lightning swaps, (litteraly with a push of a button), and integrated TOR-integration
Lightning DEX which is the first DEX in the world to be powered by a huge network of masternodes, which is gonna route payments through the lightning network.
And much more to come...


Do your own research, Komodo is a very promising project, but it's got a marketcap 17X of Stakenet's. ;) Which is more than enough of a reason to pay attention to this gem of a project.

They've got their staking platform for a while now. Cloud.Stakenet.io - XSN, Stratis, and PIVX is supported - Centralized solution to get newbies started with staking.

They invented TPOS - Trustless Proof Of Stake. Works by staking through a merchant who will run a VPS for you, and take a commission for it.  (Both parties gotta accept the percentage fee). The merchant wont be able to spend, or move your coins, just stake it. You can be your own merchant, or find someone who wants to stake your coins.

Next in line is their multi currency lightning wallet - Which is gonna beat most other multi wallets out there, by providing lightning transactions by clicking on a button, no technical stuff needed. Masternodes will route the transactions in the backend. No need to sync, TOR-integration for privacy, and the DEX is gonna be integrated in the wallet later on.
The multi currency wallet is completed, but currently in open BETA, will be released very soon.

Is it known what kind of pairs would be available at Launch?

Nice to hear about that progress.
Cant wait for the first reviews on that.

Not entirely sure yet, but I believe to start off we'll have the following coins supported:

BTC
LTC
XSN

USDT will hopefully be added as well (and other stable coins perhaps). Groestlcoin is also a project that has caught interest, as they are on lightning too.

Usdt Sounds interesting to me.

So it would be possible to thether up in Wallet.

Would be a very nice feature in times like this  ;D

Yeah, it definitely would have saved me a ton of money seeing BTC drop as heavy as it did yesterday. It was down like 18%? Could have saved at least 10% of that loss using tethering up instantly.

And there is no KYC right?
That annoys me much.
Specialy since all that Exchange hacks.

No, there is no such thing as accounts, registrations, or any personal details needed.

You also don't need to sync with the network, manage multiple wallets at once, or anything like that. You've got everything in one place basically.

So as there is nobody involved within my wallet then, will there be a Backup functionality to save my fundings?

You can backup your wallet using a random combination of 12 words, it's the same way the Exodus wallet functions, if you're familiar with it.  :)

Got it  ;)

Will ERC20 tokens be supported assets as well? I'd love that since I'm a pretty big holder of Chainlink among other tokens. :)

Dig into the Whitepaper  8)
They use a tokenization Process for non lightning Coins.

Cool, sounds like a workable solution. Guess I'm gonna read the white paper as well to understand the bigger picture here.

Thanks Mike.  ;D

Here also a helpfull link to understand the bigger picture  8)

https://link.medium.com/0qRwjPtJs0

KmD is not lightning network based right? Just atomic swaps? I am at a bit of loss understanding why they went this route instead of lightning network like XSN?

Are both techs incompatible?

Correct. Atomic swaps is used on all DEX solutions this far (unless we're talking about a fake DEX)

Lightning is instant, Atomic Swaps is not.


Well, there is a huge difference between the projects. Stakenet's Multi Currency Wallet, will have the DEX itself integrated into it, this means you'll have everything in the same place, making it extremely convenient, and user friendly.
You'll be able to store/send/recieve, and trade all once. Pretty cool when the Multicurrency Lightning Wallet get's released as a mobile app as well, which makes it possible to trade on the go.

Beats Komodo by a long shot, but Stakenet is yet to release their DEX, and Komodo already has one running, so there's that. :)

i am a huge fan of stakenet because devs of stakenet doing incredible job in lightning network. Currently they are working on MCLW and the true lightning  dex. Mobile version of stakenet wallet is in progress (95%) and  mobile wallet will be compatible on all devices and allow users to access our wallet and its features directly from their mobile device. Many many more features

Cross Chain Proof Of Stake (CCPOS) is something I'm very excited about as well. Should be able to work with Ledger and Trezor, as a cold staking solution. Which means, you can hold XSN, and recieve passive BTC transactions daily on your Ledger, that's something I believe will get a lot of hype eventually. :)

Looks like TPoS from Trezor is in his finishing.
Seen TPoS Tab now on xsnexplorer.io

I'd agree with your general sentiment.

Yes, Stakenet could potentially be very successful. But the amount of shills for this project that i've seen based off browsing this section of the forum is a bit too much for my liking in my personal opinion. It could just be investors, but it could also be official parties trying to use the forum as a guerilla marketing tactic.

Komodo on the other hand has been around for longer, and has had a proven team and track record. Perhaps lower returns, but much lower risk as well.

I've been an investor in Stakenet since it's very beginning, and it's frustrates me that projects with a LOT less going for them sits on marketcaps worth hundreds of millions of dollars, with absolutely 0 use cases, or utilities whatsoever.
I've been posting about Stakenet here a lot, truly because I love the project, and believe in it. I'm in no way part of the actual team, just want to make people aware of the project, that's basically it.

Komodo is a decent project as well, as stated, I do hold some - since I believe both projects will do well on their own. :)

You are right about Komodo and the decentralized exchanges. Day by day DEX will get more investors and it's populary is being increased gradually. Most of the big altcoins are already planning to launch their own Decentralized exchanges. This year we have seen Biance DEX, ViteLabs DEX, Populous Dex and so on and recently McAfee announced his own DEX exchanges. So, Komodo is a safe investment for sure. But I am not sure about the Stakenet, But I would prefer Atomic swap than Lightning Swaps.

I’m really excited about that Lightning Dex Tech.
As i read today in their discord something will happen very soon.
Can’t wait for the first comparsion of Lightning Swaps vs Atomic Swaps

Me neither, as far as I'm aware they would do a video on it. Comparing the two. That's gonna be funny to see!

It's surprising how many people in crypto don't know what Lightning swaps are.

If you search for it, you'll get TONS of FUD results though. Lightning is kind of technical (like the rest of the crypto world), so I guess we need so see lightning in real use cases, before people actually start to care that much about it, it's a shame though, since Lightning is such a powerful invention, which will change the way we transact with cryptocurrencies moving forward.

Right now, the only people adopting Lightning are in it for the tech. Everyone who's in crypto for the money - i.e. the vast majority - don't see the incentive just yet.
The projects that do decide to build on Lightning to make it more accessible and profitable... The crypto world is their oyster. No one sees it coming just yet.
Lightning will probably blossom into something quite nice in the near future and it may just take a lot of people by surprise.

True, I believe Lightning will be HUGE moving forward. A great example is a game made as spin off on Fortnite, just running on Lightning instead. Check: Lightnite.io
By playing this game, you can earn actual BTC through gaming, which is something that got's everyones attention. Pretty cool  ;D

I am a supporter of Stakenet project and I think in the end they will outcome every DEX we currently have on the markets. True , Komodo has 1-2 years ahead of Stakenet when it comes to oldness but if we compare the 2 roadmaps , stakenet could be years away in front of komodo once the roadmap is completed. Lighting Swaps DEX is a future that will attract a lot users to their dex so even Waves and Blocknet are gonna have competitive technology at some point this is why I gather all 3 of them besides Komodo.

Komodo runs on Atomic Swaps
Stakenet on Lightning

Big difference here is speed. Stakenet will be pretty much instant, (like a centralized exchange would be), and personally I believe that's what people wants.

Lightning for speed.
Aggregation for volume.

How can it be beat?