Bitcoin Forum

Moscow-based law firm ZP Legal claims to have identified Russian nationals who received bitcoin stolen in the 2014 hack of Mt Gox. Local law enforcement is investigating Alexander Vinnik, the alleged operator of the defunct exchange BTC-e. ZP Legal says Mt Gox creditors who come forward as potential BTC-e victims may help Russian authorities establish a connection between the exchanges. To cut a deal with law enforcement, those who benefited from the Mt Gox hack might offer to return funds to the exchange’s creditors, the law firm reckons.

https://www.coindesk.com/2-billion-lost-in-mt-gox-bitcoin-hack-can-be-recovered-lawyer-claims

It would be nice if what the lawyer claims is true and can be done.  The thing is, lawyers tends to say things to console the victims for the sake of getting paid for their services.  It had been several years passed and yet, the lost Bitcoin had not been recovered.  Even if they pinpoint who the receivers are, it is quite impossible to get 100% of the lost funds of MT. Gox because they could had been sold already.  Another thing is the accuracy of finding involved people.   It is easier said than done IMHO.

This sounds extremely dubious. From everything the firm is saying, all of this hinges on a future law enforcement investigation, with the involvement of multiple agencies across borders.

And in the unlikely event of recovery, they'll pocket 3/4 of your bitcoins. ::)

It's good to have hope, but I don't think it's likely that people will receive their funds back... Making Russian Federation take action against people who received stolen something that is not even considered money is highly improbable, especially because of the law system that does not rely on precedents but rather on the current laws to solve cases (+ corruption, of course). Not to mention what the legal firm wants in return, which is going to leave the users with way less money they lost:
I think this will end with nothing, because it seems that it's up to Japan to decide what to do anyway.

It is good to hope but to consider that the person who stole them still have them is hilarious .
Generally they don't even wait for some time to sell everything .. or maybe they could have changed it something else ..
Even if it could be traced it would take a while and in that while who knows if the money will still be with the person .
This is actually very weird therefore no one really knows if that's possible.

the hack actually occurred in 2011 and the theft ended around 2013 so it's even worse then that. we're taking about BTC that was worth a small fraction of the current price. and it was probably all liquidated on BTC-E (likely through BTC-E codes and local exchangers) with no KYC records 5+ years ago.

even if they could find some of the original culprits, the money is long gone and it definitely didn't amount to $2 billion at the time.

so it's a hail mary. the law firm is probably doing this just to get exposure and make a name for themselves.

How are they going to get back the money from people who profited? If Vinnik was selling everything through his exchange he only got maybe 10% of what the coins are worth now so he doesn't have the money to cover everything. You also can't ask people who bought coins on BTC-e to give it back even if you trace them.

Hello 5 years ago you bought some bitcoins on exchange and we want them back? :D
I don't have it! I sold in 2015 for 500 dollars!

This Mt Gox's topic is becomming annoying. Relax, guys, none will refund you the money.

Why won't they refund?

Because none of it has been proven yet that they can actually return the funds and even if they managed to return the funds they will going to take 50 to 75 percent of the recovered Bitcoin.

So, how do you like their claim? Isn't it cringey to feel that they want to take half of your Bitcoin if returned?

The article is a good consolation to those who are still hoping that someday they will get their money back.
But we need a reality check here. Can they actually get the funds back or are they only giving positive hope to those people involved?

How do they cover the lost Bitcoin? Of course it will be very difficult imho. I think they made the problem too easy. And again, 2 million dollars isn't a little money. So I'm not sure they can cover that.

I would partially believe if they will mention that they make the refund in $ equivalent in lost BTC. But if they will push people to believe that they will recover the lost BTC to make a refund? Nah, enough for this, its impossible.

But if they get refunded but
Must be better than nothing, but if it's me, ofc I want 60-70% of my lost funds will be refunded.

That lawyer must be good in technology or else, its just a dream for everyone. We know that its hard to recover money if there’s no identity at all, but if the lawyer is serious about this claim then the market will celebrate for sure and it can boost the trust on cryptocurrency. Hacked bitcoin is still unrecoverable, stay safe and protect your keys always.

It is known to everyone that the funds stolen from Mt Gox were laundered using BTC-e between 2011 and 2013. By the time the theft was identified in 2014, the hackers were no longer actively stealing the coins from Mt Gox. The identity of the hackers is still in doubt. The FBI claims that Vinnik was involved, but as far as I know he was the owner of BTC-e and he wasn't directly involved in the robbery.

Now the issue is that during 2011-13, the exchange rate was around $4 per coin and most of the stolen BTC was sold in BTC-e at this exchange rate. Even if the hackers managed to sell all of the BTC650,000, they would have received no more than $3 million. Now I am not sure whether they have any coins remaining in their wallets (which will be a foolish step, as the stolen coins can be traced).

The article has this

If they could successfully recover a quarter of the stolen BTC, they could still make a refund which is a lot higher in value than when the theft happened. BTC owners would still gain. They're like forced to HODL because of the theft. A quarter of $8.5 billion is $2.125 billion. That's way larger than the $450 million value during the theft. However,


I mean, seriously? LOL! That's way too high a price! This law firm is seemingly trying to sell their capacity to contribute something to possibly help solve a crime. Too overpriced! They're making it a hostage! 

Well all of the people who have been in crypto for years would provably know that this isn't really going to happen.
They are just giving a false hope for the victims Bitcoin transaction can't be reversed or unless the incident is actually an inside job,
And they would return the crypto back.

I am glad there is some interest and discussion on this topic.
There are talks with other law firms and the trustee is aware of the news.
I posted seeking help about this issue

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5179121
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5179372

Creditors are looking for second opinions, anyone with knowledge about Russian laws, or anyone who wants to assist to help us figure this out!

Current deadline to apply is Sept 22 with ZP. Creditors meeting with trustee is Oct 1st.
ZP refuses to push back deadline to be after the creditors meeting because, reasons?
Supposedly, according to them, people are already in custody in Russia regarding this. who?

https://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-trustee-asked-doj-to-share-info-on-jailed-btc-e-owner-alexander-vinnik

This sounds a lot easier then it actually is, they know very little information about those hackers, and if they do decide to persue this, it'll take a lot of manpower, co-operation between countries, and probably a lot of money for them to recover funds that they will 99 percent end up pocketing...

This is just an attempt for the law firm to get a lot of money, publicity, and then the governments want a cut of the pie, no actual people will benefit from this, which is definitely quite sad considering how much money was lost during the hack.

I'm grateful for the bump, I've actually never seen the article or this thread before.

in a nutshell, theres more than meets the eye in this situation! crypto users who lost money from this hack should not expect anything from this news. sounds great but lets look at the reality!


 wonder how far these lawyers will go out their way to follow through this case. or this is just another media propaganda?

I heard that Nobuaki Kobayashi (Mt Gox bankruptcy trustee) is getting interested in the Alexander Vinnik case. He has requested for details from the United States Department of Justice (DOJ). But at the same time, Kobayashi hasn't made his opinion clear on the proposal by ZP Legal, to recover up to BTC200,000 from the Mt Gox hackers. However, Mr. Kobayashi admitted yesterday that his team had contacted Alexander Zheleznikov, who is heading ZP Legal. I think it may be possible to do some bargain and get the commission reduced from 50%-75% to around 20%-25%.

BTW, I heard that CoinLab is now claiming $16 billion from Mt Gox (which sounds ludicrous, considering the fact that Kobayashi has less than $650 million in his hand from the sale of the recovered coins). Will this amount (in the unlikely event of the trustee approving their claims), be paid from the bankruptcy fund?

This news development about Mt. Gox hack seems a wishful thinking to me for the fact that various efforts were exerted over the past several years but nothing concrete had happened to recover those lost Bitcoins. Assuming they were indeed able to track those  Bitcoins in the hands of few who benefited from it, I think those Bitcoins may have been long gone or has been exchanged with different hands through other mixing services making it more difficult to recover.

Aside from that, I think that the law firm, even with outstanding track records, may have decided to pursue it maybe just for publicity stunt and does want to obtain handsome hourly payment for their services aside from charging 50 to 75 percent if ever they succeeded in recovering it. Also, as per information published on that article, that law firm states that "their assumptions about connections are correct" which may give false hope to its stakeholders once proven they are wrong. :)

This should have been resolved a long time ago, but authorities should do everything that all the last of Bitcoin will be given back to the claimants, Mt Gox hacking continues to haunts us with it's bad memory and only if we can resolve and have a good ending for those claimants, then we can close this bad chapter, it's always been a battle between security and hacking attempts ever since, our computer becomes our own bank.

MT.Gox hack has always been a big mystery which never got solved so it would be great to see the culprits brought to book. However, I doubt whether this can really be resolved and funds returned to their rightful owner.

ZP contacted trustee with the help of the Russian embassy as far as I understand. He's stated numerous times they are uncooperative, whatever that means. Coinlab was awarded about $10 million during assessment phase (details still sparse) and they are going into litigation now, with a lawsuit filed a few days ago.

Peter Vessenes has got to be one of the worst bitcoiners

There are people who lost a lot of bitcoin in that hack and the amount of profit that the Mt Gox trust made selling the coins they had in their wallet is really huge and they were selling their coins when ever the price touched all time high valuation and these coins belong to the users and they must be properly compensated rather than shorting them and if a team of lawyers could get that for them taking without spending much money, then it is a good option.
Not entire sure how they can recover but there is a possibility because the Mt Gox trust is a registered entity.

Ouch. That's a huge cut out of them if their claims could ever become true. 50-75 percent cut on the coins retrieved, and the coins that could be retrieved would only amount to a quarter of the original amount. Though if it ever was returned, at least the owners would have something to have by the end of it. Although reduced by a huge amount. Sadly though, the returned amount would not be on bitcoin but rather a flat currency instead. I'd rather receive bitcoin to be perfectly honest. Much more worth it imo.

MT Gox still ruins people's lives...

I at least hope that the people who's lost their money will be able to get some of the money they lost when the exchange was hacked. If indeed about $2 billion worth of Bitcoins hs been recovered, it means most of them will be getting some profits since the stolen bitcoins were worth around $450 million at the time of the hack.

I have an interesting idea! Assuming that a quarter of all 850,000 Bitcoins that was lost during the hack could be recovered, and with a 50 -75 percent cut by that law firm, the stakeholders could receive an estimated net of more or less $530 million from current value which is a little bit higher than its estimated value of $450 million at the time of the hack.

Now I was thinking if there was an "under the table deal" between this  law firm and those that benefited from this hack? So that they could come into a negotiated deal which could by far free those people from legal liabilities and so in the end, they all go home in a win-win situation. I think a compromised agreement will be made out of this crypto drama.


Source: https://www.coindesk.com/2-billion-lost-in-mt-gox-bitcoin-hack-can-be-recovered-lawyer-claims

Want to correct some misconceptions. Trustee is still working on returning the bitcoins he is holding. Current estimates put it at about 16% of claim + $480 usd per coin.
Also, stolen coins going through btce is well known and is almost but certain. Vinnik had account and doxxed himself on gox as WME. It is the current guess by many that the coins went to btce and any further recovery is tied to Vinnik. Until further events happen in regards to his extradition (supposed to be by January) it is hard to know how this will take course

Adding to the complexity of the situation is that many of the entities are interested to have a share of the recovered funds but I guess they will get into a compromise on this matter! Anyway what ever will be the outcome of the investigations lately, I just hope that those who had suffered loss during the hack will be given justice and just compensation and a chance to move on. Imho.

If this is true, then the MT Gox victims could get their hope back and maybe even their lost bitcoin but that firm will take some for sure if they provide that service. The amount of money that those bitcoin are worth now is big enough to cover any costs that will take in order for the operation to be done.
Even so , the difficulty in this is way above normal and I still don't know how they could recover such a big amount if bitcoin who were lost more than 4 years ago because a lot of blocks have been mined since then. Anyway I hope all of the Mt Gox victims will have another reason to celebrate sooner than they think.

That law firm might be outstanding and what they are talking maybe true - thus the possibility to recover those lost BTC maybe realized! But I feel an injustice to those victims of that hacking incident since its not right to charge their customers with an insanely 50 - 75 percent cutback!

Considering the huge amount of money involved in this matter, I guess that condition makes them looks like opportunists which in essence, they are just like those hackers! Greed sets in again. :)

I don't think they will get any funds. This is just a spectacle. Even if they do retrieve the funds who do they give them to or what do they do with them? You right lawyers do console theor clients like that. I always say when you sue someone like a custody battle and things like that the only winners are the two lawyers and they are laughing all the way to the bank.

Agreed. There is 100 percent no way people will get their money back, even if the money is recovered, it needs to go through the law firm, the government, and other possible entities before distribution of the remaining funds starts, which is going to be rough, because will anyone actually bother to send out all of these funds? The likely answer will be no.

I pity  that this goes this way. Its unfortunate to those  who loss their money in this Mt. Gox exchange scandal. It seems that the victims will be scammed again in recovering their crypto assets. But, if they can recover I think its better than never. But its difficult to identify those clients especially now that several years had past.

https://www.coindesk.com/criminal-case-against-failed-wex-exchange-points-at-russian-law-enforcement

Hmm. Would it be a surprise if this was true? American law enforcement had plenty of fun on Silk Road.

It's certainly doing no favours for Russia's image to the outside world but they seem to be long past minding about that.

it's a very interesting version of events, i'll say that much. unfortunately all the evidence is circumstantial and as expected, everyone implicated (including the russian government) is refusing to comment or denying involvement.

we don't know for sure that Malofeev and Nemkin are related to the supposed FSB operation that cleaned out WEX. meanwhile, this exchange "vladex" still doesn't exist, which sort of casts doubt on the whole story.

at this point, i don't think we'll ever find out the whole truth---especially if it really involves the FSB.

I'm glad that I got out before things went dark. I lost around 15-20% of my funds, but that's a small price to pay compared to the total loss for the majority of other users.

I'm tired of hearing the name Mt.Gox. Markets are already uneasy. Bitcoin did not catch a good uptrend. Why does this name come up all the time? The issue of hacking has not been resolved for years. Why is that? Give people the money and this effect is over.

I would not expect lots of replies to this topic, there are people recovering from the grief of this, people who have totally recovered, do not reopen wounds, people committed suicide, what i lost was not as much as what others lost, but if converted today with the current btc price or last year when btc was all time high i would be well, GREAT! Hell, song was made about this, people got depressed.

Then Cryptsy, oh they did a number on us too, and my btc, then i got an email

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA

NOTICE OF PROPOSED PARTIAL SETTLEMENTS OF CLASS ACTION,
PENDENCY OF CLASS ACTION, FAIRNESS HEARING, AND RIGHT TO APPEAR

If you are a CRYPTSY account holder and are unable to access your CRYPTOCURRENCY, you could get money from two different class action settlements, and an ongoing class action lawsuit may affect your rights.
Please read this notice carefully.

A court authorized this notice. This is not a solicitation from a lawyer.

Then the lengthy letter all the way down, not going to bore anyone but let the wounds created just heal, this people have no heart but then again i learnt a valuable lesson never ever leave your money in an exchange, this says i can't sleep if i have money in an exchange, i get nervous and night sweats. 

The lawyers will say they can recover it because they want to have their high fees paid and find it or not they will profit either way. So we cant listen to what they say. If they have found people that have received stolen bitcoin how did they do that and if they know so much why are there no arrests? I would not bet on them getting any funds back.

Alexander Vinik is involved in this exchange and this makes him leave. Where there is a lot of money, there is a lot of hype. What is the matter, there is a person, he himself received these funds and has the full right to dispose of them in further actions.

I don't understand what you want to say. You do know though that Alexander Vinnik was arrested in Greece in 2017 and will probably be extradited to France (and consequently to the US)? Also how exactly he has any right over stolen funds? What exactly is your point?

Learn English and try again please.

I gotta say I have to merit you just for the fact your Moniker made me laugh.

 :D Thanks a lot friend, I hope my writing skills are up to standard and hopefully I can contribute with useful content as well!