Bitcoin Forum

Imagine if Theymos would just reset everyone reputation...

All the 'dt fun talk' would be gone along with red and green trust   :o

It is like taking all the toys from kids  ;D

I'd be happy if the merits were reset as most of my early ones were to get used to the system.

But then people would just put them back? :D

And the DT1/DT2 would probably be the same users (they are the more prone to getting merit/being trusted by others after all).

The inactive users who helped put some of the DT1/2 into place wouldn't necessarily come back to vote up the current DT's

I’m not aware of these. Are you saying that there are many DT1 members that are only DT because they have AFK voters? I don’t think that’s the case for most of them, but I’ve never seen any data so I may be wrong.

That can’t be the case with people that vote others to DT2 though, since you need to be active to be “eleged” to DT1.

Exactly, For being a DT1 member, the user must have become online at least once in the last 3 days.

Here is the post made by Theymos.

If we are talking anout the PROS outweighing the CONS the reset will definitely be a big L for the forum. Yeah sure all of this controversial and retaliatory negative feedbacks would be erased but what about justified negative feedbacks to members from scams, unpaid loans, account farmers, merit sellers, tampered KYCs, and fake projects? What about them? Do you like for them to have a clean slate in the forum and try to scam or take advantage of other members here in the forum?


I'm not worried about this especially if you don't give the airdropped sMerits back for merit sellers to start selling again. By doing so you'll just be giving them twice the sMerits to sell and I really don't like the idea that they will have another profit run from the merit system.

While it's true that you need to be online to vote around the start of the month, to actually be eligible to vote you need the support of others, hence if your ten required are inactive and the trust/distrust were reset to zero, some who were eligible to vote then become intelligible and their vote doesn't occur and the follow on is that they don't vote others into positions of DT.

If you look at my own example: http://loyce.club/trust/ranking/131361.html

The last person is banned, yet their vote still counts.

Two up from last that person is inactive/not coming back...

Just those two take me down from thirteen votes to eleven. Say any three of the five who have negative trust decide it's no longer worth setting up their previous trust lists and I'd be down to nine votes and inelligable to "vote"/participate in the DT run-offs as I said in my previous post:


Merits and trust/distrust are more intertwined than you realise.

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Hit that reset button @theymos - I could do with a good laugh.

I think, to hit the reset button for the trust list is surely an interesting and effective idea in some sense.  Inactive accounts, using probably never updated trust lists could be flushed up so that, they are forced to reput their trust list together with the latest conclusions or it would be left on default trust if they are inactive even further.  This way only the votes of the people judging others actively around would be increased at least.

It would be a bad move imho. Reputation and trust ratings are community work. If it would be reset, some would just stop posting trust feedback and some may end up not trusting anyone because everybody just became clean again.

Why reset the valid ratings too? Maybe it's even time to start moderating feedback, and only allow feedback that follows this:
Of course, that risks moderator abuse and for sure much more drama, and there are gray areas which could be interpreted differently by different people, so it won't happen.

Even if people are too afraid to have a system wide reset, could we ensure the UID's that are banned have their trust/distrust, merits and trust wall/feedback nuked?

Maybe Theymos can think of some better idea to stop and prevent 'more abuse dt wars'
It's not fun at all.

From my perspective of having spent almost a quarter-century enamoured of the idea of cryptographic currency plus reputation systems that would enable pseudonymous economic activity, it is only natural that I think this is a terrible idea.  Actually, common sense and basic fairness say this is a terrible idea.

The people with good reputations would not work back up from zero:  They would have just seen that valuable reputations they had worked hard to achieve had been arbitrarily “reset”, for the purpose of appeasing those with bad reputations.  Well, no good deed goes unpunished.  What happened once, would surely happen again.  Therefore, if not patently irrational and/or masochistic, they would leave the forum.

Although there may be mistakes made here and there, it is undoubtable that most people with negative reputations have earned those reputations, too.  The forum would be left with those, plus newbies (i.e., fresh meat on a forum where everybody who’s not a newbie is a scammer).

Oh, joy!

(Dear readers, I apologize for having merely stated the obvious.  It is bad form.  Well, somebody had to.)

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That was your choice.  Do you care to explain why others’ choices should be erased because you regret yours?

(And before anybody suggests that having much merit disqualifies me from speaking about merit...)

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Well, I infer that was his purpose in neutering the effect of feedback, and essentially democratizing DT in a convoluted way.

My prediction as to the latter is that it will destroy the trust system.  In the long term, it will put DT under control of those who optimize for gaining control of DT by any means necessary, and devote unbounded time and effort to doing so.  That is a bad criterion.  As for cleaning up these sordid threads, it will backfire and will escalate, not quash the perpetual DT wars:  Demagogues, agitprop, and “negative campaign ads” thrive in such a system.

Not all of this will be obvious when the system is new, because old DT members started with an incumbent’s advantage; but given enough time, the rot will set in and take over.  And tinkering with the DT selection algorithm will not help much; such as system as DT is a social problem, not amenable to such technological solutions without a human element that actually works.

Something analogous happened in American history.  The revolutionary American founders were not titular nobility; but most were of the gentry, a high social class that was almost nobility.  Compare long-established forum members who were at some point selected for DT1 (however imperfect the selective process may have been in both cases).  For the first few decades of their new system, the most important elected positions were almost all filled from that class.  Then rose “political machines” with gangsters, party politics in the worst modern sense, special-interest groups, etc.  They sometimes used outright ballot-stuffing and fraud; similarly, we have circles of alts to Sibyl the system.  Otherwise, they are just expert manipulators of mass opinion (n.b., “confidence men” are so-called because they specialize in luring people to unwisely trust them).  Well, now just look at ’em!

So as for my prediction of unintended consequences.  Intelligent people may argue over this.  The future will show who’s right.

What is not intelligently arguable, or even sensible, is the notion that depriving good people of good reputations, and relieving bad people of bad reputations, would achieve anything but to destroy the community in an instant.  Cui bono?

1. the ONLY objective indication of BAD people or bad rep is type 2 and type 3 flags.

these should NOT be reset.

2. feedback should be wiped or the scores removed. People can read and do their own homework to investigate the subjective garbage written there and make their own decisions.

3. Merit should be WIPED.

4. All legends and heros should be merit sources. When abuse (some set of small criteria can be introduced) is detected they can be removed along with their rank.

This is one possible way to fix this mess.

Long blathering posts that based their BELIEFS on obviously bogus bullshit like good feedback score = trustworthy member  bad feedback score = untrustworthy member
lots of merit = valuable poster  no merit = low value to zero value poster  demonstrates clearly for all their flowery waffle and nerd spew they are  morons.

Noobius... some self educated peasant who's malnourished brain now means he has no empathy for those that shared his humble peasant origins. Poor waffling retarded wretch, just keep telling him how smart he sounds for grouping together lots of words and creating analogies that are pretty much useless.

YES reset everything that is based upon subjective and openly gamed crap. Then put in some sensible criteria and give those that have something to lose and punish merit source.

Is this really the old nullius?? dubious.

LOL dubious noobius hahah keep blathering on peasant nerd fool. You sound to us, like you have tried to emulate anonymint a little bit in posting style. Sadly he is far superior to anything you can shart out. But yep they got him banned too. I mean you might as well ban 99.99% of the board and keep AM then the board still has more value and less resource drain. Obviously delete the dubious nullius account now that it has multi sharting out net negative moronic spew under the guise of flowery nerd waffle.

Let's reset anything that could have been gamed and manipulated far too easily that will cure a lot of the boards fucking mess. Then let's introduce sensible rules like if you have engaged in direct financially motivated wrong doing you are fucking blacklisted from positions of TRUST.

Your points are bogus their is no neutering of feedback it has the same economic damage as it always has and equal to a type 3 flag. It is more dangerous now since there is a lesser threshold required to slap red around ....like your fucked up moronic strawman excuse for slathering it on people since your unlikely return.

I think we can safely ignore your pleas to keep the status quo lauda.

Waffling retard, lots of words. This reminds me of someone  ::)

Seriously mate, just fuck off. You have been saying the same things (aka "net negative moronic spew") for months and months and have achieved precisely ZERO. If your account and all of it's posts were "reset", that would probably have more of a "net positive" effect on this board than anything you have suggested since your arrival.

Three out of five posts by SockyMcSockFace is to Troll The-One-Above-All after they have mentioned Lauda...

It's pretty obvious who's pulling SockyMcSockFace's sockpuppet strings...

This reminds me of all the homeless people in NYC who probably thought it would be great to drop out of society and its rules and go live in the underground tunnel system.  Then groups of them started aggregating, and they ended up forming their own society with rules and everything else.

The reputation system evolved from a need to have one, I think, and if Theymos nuked it all today I bet members would find a way to reconstitute it, albeit in a different fashion I'm sure.

But since Theymos isn't going to do this and it's a hypothetical question, my answer would be "who cares?".  It's not like being on DT grants me some godly power--it makes doing trades here a little bit easier, but whoopdee-do.  It's more a responsibility than anything else, much like being a merit source.  I feel bad when I'm lazy and not handing out merits left and right, but I try to do it because I believe in the merit system. 

And sometimes being on DT is a huge pain in the ass, because you have to be responsible when you leave trust feedback, and that means being damn sure you're right when you leave negative ones and extremely conservative with positive ones.  It's not all it's cracked up to be.

Apparently it isn't obvious.

Because you're wrong. On both counts. The first one was after posting about nutildah, the second was following a spray at Lauda (but was questioning the-one-above-all's ongoing use of low brow, child like derogatory nicknames for various users on this forum) and the third was after a rant about nullius. If I remember my numbers correctly, that makes 1 out of 5.

So, for the record. Not Lauda.

I think it won't change anything if theymos really want to reset reputation (trust rating). Because DT's will reset again if trust network exist. Otherwise theymos will have to removed it totally. The sound like moderation trust system if in case reset all feedback's. Then more questions will raise against admin/moderators. Of course we will encounter more drama than current situation. So whatever change will come out drama never going to stop.  DT's should changed their mind to build decent trust network, but likely it will never happen. So better leave it as it is now.

That "fun" would be gone but at the same time what about a lot of people who were tagged for scams? Those feedbacks mustn't be removed or it will be chaos again and I would forget trading there (but luckily I remember name of a lot of trustworthy people).
Btw it will be curious to imagine what will happen around QuickSeller? Game-Protect? Cause they have a lot of negative feedbacks.
But would be good experiment to do that for some days: 1. Remove all negative trust 2. Remove all positive trust 3. Remove all trust

But now imagine this: We removed all trust that means people have to build trust from zero. Will people repeat the same mistakes or will everyone try their best to build positive trust feedback? (Maybe they'll in order to make more massive scam).

We are talking in fantasy terms here, but I think that we should have temporary feedback freeze for some members.
If people are abusing trust feedback then they should not be allowed to add more feedback for some time.

PS
Thanks everyone for your feedback.
I wanted to feel the pulse of community regarding current trust feedback situation.

well, i've live here since 5 years ago(10 january btw) , so far I only live in the sewers of this forum, sometimes going upstairs , seeing a DT movie. Trust , reputation , pro and cont,that is a something interesting for me.
reputation it self make a suggestion to our mind wich mean he/she can be trustable , and i quite sure that reputation is not fake.
although sometimes i watching movie some DT member throw a hammer to civilian on this forum,but well, i am sure they already thinking about what they do,so what will happen if theymos reset it now ?
ethics will disappear I guess , cheating will be totally crazy,scamming,etc.
politics is needed i guess for human life,even in the forum though.

I found the whole reputation thing really fun, lot of discussion about wrong wrong reputation left by some users, but its just one of those things you need to learn to live with forever.