Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin price is determined by the few whales who happened to hold since the early days. If they want they can pump BTC to 1M $ and if they want they can dump BTC to 100$.
Doesnt matter who you are, A BTC holder or a daily trader, whales control BTC price.
What I mean by whale? The person who have more than million Bitcoin.
Bitcoin technology is great but Market is compeletly different story.

Agreed, bitcoin price is being manipulated by a small group of large volume of bitcoin holders simply termed as whales. These people hold the majority of the bitcoin into circulation which is the reason for easy manipulation. Even with such a big volume the market is manipulative to limited level, beyond the same the market won't react. This is what I understood out of the market pump and dump caused by whales.

I don't think you'll find many individuals claiming that the market is not manipulated. That being said, most people don't realize how many variables there are in addition to these groups of people that effect the price. Governments, regulations & laws, news, etc.

Yes, this can be manipulated, but for what? Whales get a steady profit from Bitcoin volatility and I am 99% sure that none of the whales will destroy the market. It is not profitable, it will bring loss, therefore it will not happen

I’m thinking about this: all bitcoins, assuming that whales want to sell them in large quantities, simply can’t be exchanged at exchange offices. There will be panic in the market and exchange offices can suspend their activities. Is there such a possibility? In any case, responding to the post, most likely the whales simply will not be interested to bring everything down.

It is a known fact that there are large players with a dominant number of coins. However, so far I have not seen any manipulations that would destroy the crypto market. It is still alive so dont worry

Every markets are manipulative to some extent. Bitcoin has become one of the less manipulative but as there are fewer restrictions, the changes could be volatile.
I don't think a single or a group of whales would be able to move its price the way they want. They might be successful on most but they as bitcoin is one of the most decentralized value, the market sentiments have the larger role to play.

Whales live off small panic traders. Two years ago, we saw how whales can hit a jackpot when Bitcoin grew to 20k and collapsed at once in a flash. Its just needed to be careful and trade with a cold mind.

Such things are common in the trading world, the forex market, the stock market, are all manipulated, until someone illustrates that the trading world is like the law of the jungle, the strong who hold the reins, we as small traders can only take advantage of the opportunities that exist.

the free market system cannot be far from manipulation, in the stock market it can still be several times linked to centralized policy, but here everything is really pure sentiment from the crypto ecosystem. Several times whales take advantage of manipulation, but of course they are also still speculating about the sustainability of bitcoin for the long term.

This manipulators are inclusive of miners. They pay for media speculation which attract lots of people to buy, they they will dump causing disbelief in bitcoin.
This make it look like pump and dump. Sometimes I still wonder if other countries who are not benefiting from bitcoin like china, would ever allow bitcoin achieve it full potential.

Stop believing this already, if those whales are capable to make that digits, then when that had happened? Of course, none, only satoshi had this 1m+ amount of btc, and can trigger  to move the price to a huge leap or drop if he still hold those. Actually, huge exchanges doesn't have that amount of btc.

Every market does this with the people behind it, so its not new after all. Price will move once people keep trading, selling and buying btc, and can pump or dump once there's a news regarding to miners, exchanges, and government-related news connected to crypto or btc.

I think so bitcoin could be manipulated since bitcoin depending on its supply and demand in the market but still, it is not going to be easy to control the market surely money will be a big issue here since the bitcoin could probably cost a lot of money if you are going to buy a big percentage in the market I think a group of whales is able to control it.

The OP is right in a way as some whales intentionally dump BTC on major exchanges and buy them at very cheap prices at smaller exchanges. This is the reason why you should not bother selling your BTC anytime you see the market fluctuate because you are only falling gullible to the games of whales. The funny thing is that they use bots in doing this so you definitely can't play this game with them, you just have to learn how to be patient till the price increases to an appreciable level for you to sell.

In all speculative markets, both in the stock market as Bitcoin are whales or strong hands, they are the ones who move the market, they may not manipulate as you say, but act through its power of money, often the market It moves by action of people's emotions, it should not be forgotten that strong hands square their plans months or years in advance to execute and manage their movements in the market.

I prefer to think that manipulation is in the media, news that speaks well or badly about Bitcoin, I don't know if they are the same strong hands, if you have many millions of dollars to move the market, I don't see any manipulation there. The strong hands that are bulls and bears, often fight each other and earn the most money to move the market in their favor, the market is like a jungle. It is preferable to think that everything obeys the Law of Supply and Demand, who has more money can move the market in their favor.

I think you are overestimating the capabilities of a whale. Sure they have the ability to pump the price of Bitcoin but pumping it beyond $500,000 is absurd. If you do the math, they'll need to mass wealth at least 10 trillion dollars in order to do that. I agree that the market is manipulated in some ways but whales is just a part of it. There's miners, institutions, medias, and even governments that is trying to manipulate the price to their liking.

Whales dump bitcoin's price to scare weak hands who are holding bitcoin for them to buy these bitcoins and earn big amount of profit from it. They will then manipulate the price of bitcoin to pump up in the market. This is their way of playing games with weak hands or maybe we can say an earning strategy in order for them to earn large amount of money as soon as the market goes along with their plan.

in my opinion it's true, because those who hold bitcoin are too many, they are very influential on the market, so we are affected ... !!

I think this is not a secret. The problem is that we don't have names for those 'assuming' whales.

You can read this news last April 2019: Massive Bitcoin Whale Triggered BTC Surge With $100 Million Order, Says Crypto Investment Firm CEO (https://dailyhodl.com/2019/04/02/massive-bitcoin-whale-triggered-btc-surge-with-100-million-order-says-crypto-investment-firm-ceo/). So there's a pros and cons of whales swimming in this market.

Cool story, bro. But do you have any proof? Do you know the names of these whales, how many coins do they hold, what exchanges do they use, when exactly did they manipulate the market (with proofs, ofc)? There's always some degree of manipulation on every market, even those that are well regulated, but you are making claims that the whales can move Bitcoin thousands of percent up and down, and such claims require more than just words.

first of all. the only person to have claim of sole true ownership of 1m coins hasnt ever put coins onto an exchange in 9 years

secondly there has never been a single market order of 1mill coins being sold

thirdly whales in 2013 were people with 5000 coins. these days its people with 500 coins.
(minnows are people with orders under 1btc)

you cant stupidly say markets are manipulated by users with 1m coins when you cant even show proof that a single person or order of such magnitude of your exagguration ever occured

yes trades get affected by users of 500 coins. and some think that manipulation. others call that people using their value. a true manipulation is what is known as 'ghost orders' that are not actual value based on a user balance of actual deposits.

I'm assuming that you posted this because of the recent pump almost $200 up yesterday, which is a clear sign of manipulation just looking how steep that line is, indicating that a whale must have entered the market and flooded the buy orders. Then it's only going sideways for at least 10 hours now with no signs of demand increase, took a recent dump maybe because it has been considered a resistance level, then another possible pump by a whale.

This can be true to some extent but it does not mean that whales hold all the lines. Remember that in 2017, the big reason why Bitcoin reached the $20K level was speculations and newbies at that time played the big part as they blindly bought Bitcoin even at its high price. All players big and small are actually having impact on the market. Making Bitcoin a million dollar in price can be the best interest of these whales but why they can't do it? Because there are also other factors that are playing in the market. Nonetheless, yes manipulations are really rampant in this industry and is the big ground why no ETF was granted a license in the USA.

the bitcoin price can be handle with 1 person, or a group of whale, do you know how much bitcoin circulation ? and how much the marketcap?
if they pump in 1 market  (eg kraken), people who trade on other market will be sell his bitcoin before pump on target in kraken, in other real example
bitcoin price in iran right now $24.000 but in other country market its just under $10k

i don't think any people can handle pump and dump, because bitcoin is truly decentralization.

Isn't this kind of scheme can be seen anywhere?  Rich people wanted to get rich so it is natural for them to control and manipulate the market if they can.  We can set an example for the supply of rice, they tend to hoard it to increase its price and if they wanted to make it lower they will suddenly release this hoarded supply to push the price of rice down. 


Those who have fund and authority can.  If a person is too influential in an industry and at the same time have a huge fund of both BTC and fiat currency, he can easily control and manipulate the market. 

the anonymous and decentralized nature of bitcoin is very easy to manipulate by big traders or whales. but in my opinion the pope won't continue to manipulate the price of bitcoin because at this time bitcoin already has a large community. sometimes the price of bitcoin is also influenced by the news. bad news about bitcoin or FUD will make the price of bitcoin go down.

At some points, this maybe true but as long as there are new investors coming into the market the chances of the market getting manipulated decreases. We can see a market manipulation right now because there are only a few people that can buy huge amount of Bitcoins and they can sell it whenever they want and at the same time, they can buy anytime they want and pump the market.

Yes the technology behind Bitcoin is one of a kind but the market is manipulated right now. There are other altcoins out there which are good because of the reason why they created it but still it is manipulated. What we can do right now to prevent getting lost to these whales is target setting, proper discipline and fucking HOLD your Bitcoins :D.

I don't really think anyone would hold more than a million bitcoins lol because that would be more than what Satoshi himself holds :D , maybe it's the FBI then it's not an individual :) besides, Bitcoin will be limited to 21 millions so doesn't matter who hold more, they will eventually sell. What matters is the underlying blockchain technology.

you are wrong.
if this were true then price wouldn't have stayed stable even for an hour let alone for months. simply because pump and dumps like what you describe are profitable. if these whales in your imaginary scenario could indeed pump bitcoin to $1mil then they would have done it every day and make billions of dollars within weeks and abandon bitcoin an ultra rich person.

Since the early days?
I don't think they are still holding it by now.
They may have sold it already and all went divided to different owners. Now he ain't a whale anymore.
I bet that $20k at 2017 made him greedy.


No, that is not how the market will flow.
If they really can, then why not do it? That just means they cannot.
Those who are holding hundreds of thousands of bitcoin still have that fear to sell at the wrong point.
Why? They don't want to feel the "regret".

If a whale dumps btc then the price gets cheaper for some it might be a negative effect but for others its an opportunity to buy and hold until some other whale pumps it. That's just how asset and trading works its an eternal buy and sell exchange. You just need to have an exit plan when you've gained enough profit before some whales starts dumping again.

I want to see them whether it will be possible to manipulate until next week, I am still interested in seeing their game big people who hold bitcoin not on expert trading experts, I never believe it sometimes what we analyze about bitcoin will all change in a matter of seconds with a whim large holders, they are the ones who determine the charts as well as other traders

Definitely, it's happening in here, Some big whales are always trying to manipulate Bitcoin price and in this way, they always try to get advantage from this platform, when you are saying this system is decentralized then I say nothing is decentralized in this world, When you have a syndicate then you can grab all the thing you want, so it's not any different thing, this types of crisis must bring some negative view towards this platform so this trend should be checked.

Crypto people who helped bitcoin when it was a joke are now helped back by bitcoin.
If you are in crypto trading then better swim with these whales to get profit. These whales are not only in crypto market they are everywhere be it forex, commodity, gold or any other trading market.

Those whales are the big investors of the cryptocurrency. They are manipulating the market and control its price. They are holding a big amount of coin so that they can manipulate the price of the specific coin. They are doing it for the benefit of the community itself.

This market is controlled by large institutional investors. So its price may increase or decrease depending on their intentions, but with the development of the world economy I think Bitcoin's value will always increase after each year. And that will help these institutions make a lot of profit in this market, in the future I hope the market capitalization may increase just like the stock market. This market will therefore be less controlled because there are more people investing in the market

Yes it is manipulated but it is not as easy as you've said,
They could manipulate it by making wave if they suddenly sell a huge amount and FUD started then the people would also sell because of their fear,
That is how they manipulate it.

yeah this market seems to be manipulated by people who hold huge amounts of bitcoins, so it leads to a very difficult market for traders or holders to make a profit, technical analysis accounts for only 50% The remaining 50% depends on the psychology of the people who called whales, you can see that matic is an example

so he means whale controls prices that's actually not true ,well we do have a big investor but we also have other investors ,whale is not the richest a person but a community that has big funds it's also not easy business competition ,even though their game unique but they also compete to maintain prices including the exchange I mean

community is compose of many individuals but whale is only compose of one person . whale cant be call a whale its not rich but a comunity only have a limited amount of funds however it is possible to control the price against the whale if all comunity and every individuals will work together about it   . that is true that whales controls the prices of cryptos but luckily whales do also have mercy because they dont dump the price hard plus  they also give others a chance to earn once they pump the coins .

I see it is somehow a bit exaggerated? if it would happen to be increased to a price of 1m dollar, it is most likely that the entire world's currency is using bitcoin, whales do probably impact to the bitcoin price but what makes the bitcoin's price steady are the huge volume of people who follows the whale and make the market price of bitcoin even higher. In addition, it couldn't be possible because there might be a huge inflation to the bitcoin and the world.

which is feared actually if they make the same move, the funds owned are large if the pope makes large sales together then dumps on the market can occur. but I am sure that the pure flow of the market may reject it, because their big challenge in manipulating it is pure movement of prices, unless they have the drive from the media.

Maybe somehow they really affect the market price since they have higher volume of investment. On the other hand, I still believe that the government and some political factors affect also. It may somehow manipulated in a way how the market moves which also depends on the buying and selling activities of the users. For small investors like me will definitely somehow suffer from it.

Not just bitcoin, the market is being manipulated and of course the exchanges as well and we are in a world where money is very powerful and what we expect from those billionaires? To give us the money and stop from earning more? Of course they wont stop and will keep aiming for a high heights. We as a small investors should not be afraid, ride the wave with them its possible if you start thinking better Trading works like this, everyone wants to win on their own.

It's true that there are some political aspects that affect the price of bitcoin due to manipulation especially now that the world war is near to come with just little fire to be put. Small investors will be left in blank space and would surely suffer.

sometimes politics does not benefit bitcoin, what is clearly seen is a regulation against bitcoin in countries. and for me even more frightening is the manipulation of people who have a lot of funds, because they can easily control especially if the coins don't have a lot of volume on the market.

Well, that is obvious since we are in a decentralized community, why is this a big thing? With the decentralization, no one can control the price but it can be manipulated by the people who has a lot of them. I am here for almost 3 years and to be honest, upon knowing that I don't expect too much but after sometime it doesn't matter anyway since it is not that everytime they will just dump their assets everytime.

It could be manipulated somehow but its hard to tell who's the whale. In any investment or financial vehicles like stocks, forex and cryptocurrencies its all about volume and market condition that dictates the price. The good side of Bitcoin is no one owns it which the price depend from the holder unlike traditional financial institution who can directly control the price.

All markets are manipulated. People should have learned this from the fallout of the LIBOR scandal. The gold and silver markets are likewise manipulated. The central banks are continually manipulating the value of fiat currencies. The argument that a market is manipulated to disparage it is a sign of naivete.

Agree that's why we should be aware and keep updated with all the things that is happening in the crypto world, and learn to study the market and how the whales are manipulating the market, because you can really tract it like others are doing especially if you are holding a lot of Bitcoin and you are aiming for only short term.

Well, what I believe is if one is even a small trader but is rigid to their own terms like I have seen traders trading smaller amount of funds but they are rigid on what they would sell at instead of giving up when coins are getting dumped which the majority of smaller traders actually do because they panic and sell and big whales take advantage of that so collectively small traders if become a group and one and resist big dumps, then surely the manipulation can be lessened to a lot.

Whale really keep discussed in this forum. I think it is ok if price manipulated as long they are not make bitcoin price bad for people. I mean about people lose or profit in trading is a common thing. And as long bitcoin not lose it's value and reach 0, i think whales is free to do what they do.

Re: Bitcoin Market Is Manipulated


21 million merits for you!

It is undeniable that this is very commonly known by traders and users, a decentralized cryptocurrency market where prices are determined by demand from the largest holders (whales). That is why an issue like this is the subject of discussion if there is a fast pump or large value changes. But what's interesting in the crypto market is its fluctuation, I admit the attraction of crypto fluctuations.

I agree,  first of all no one can manipulate the value of bitcoin.  If anyone can Then I think bitcoin will be useless because people will lose interest on it since anyone can play the value of it.   Yes we have big investor but that doesnt mean they can also manipulate bitcoin because even the riches people dont have the power to do it. 

You may be exaggerating the abilities of a whale, they can indeed pump the price up to a few hundreds or thousands of dollars but not to the extent that it will reach said heights. Besides, it's not like the only factor a whale considers is the amount of bitcoin he/she has in disposal, we have taxes and bunch of other things that affect the price of bitcoin itself. In all honesty we still hold an equal maybe even greater power than the so-called whales, if we pull-out our investments they'll go broke. Easy.

I totally agree with you. That is a simple explanation of how the market works with whales. Whales really have an impact when they decided to make a movement on the market. Since there are whales who control the market, we will experience sudden crash and bullrun.

Definitely the market of bitcoin is manipulated by people with enough bitcoin. The entire network of bitcoin is decentralized and anyone can influence the market if the person owns enough bitcoin. It is very difficult to see someone buying 1 bitcoin on an instant. This means if you have 100bitcoins, you can easily determine the market value of bitcoin on a particular exchange platform for weeks.

I think so, where the market is currently too much manipulation that confuses small traders/investors. Just look at the chart!
The current market is very different if it has been controlled by one party because there are too many games. and not a few investors/traders also decided to retire from the crypto world because they feel mentally tired of facing this manipulation.

When they manipulated it on lowest price then it will be sure that some veteran for crypto consuming and manipulating it so they can also be the part of top holders. Then the bitcoin would be pump by the price. That's why it would never be shit coin when there are demand from this world.

They could manipulate bitcoin but they'll do it on process because they can also lose bitcoin when they do wrong.

Their manipulation is limited, much more than you think. Try to think, what would happen if one wanted to sell 1M BTC?

First, its not possible to do in a single operation, every tiny little operation will affect the price.

So as the sell order is placed, people would start buying pieces of it lowering the price, the other sellers in the market will adjust so the whale would need to as well, again and again and again until the whole 1M gets sold. This is not instantaneous. Even if he started selling at 7k, who knows what price it would reach on average at the end.

You think he can just buy back again? The same process repeats in reverse, you will probably end losing more than having done nothing.

Market manipulation is not as magical as some people seem to think. And yes, whales have tried, and failed.

Dump to 100$ is nearly impossible at this point it would take too long and the rush to buy back those coins would simply not allow it to reach that low. Again, you cannot just sell 1M BTC in a single operation, ignoring the legal formalities.

The free market is incredibly reliable, far better than any sort of State intervention. Pump and dump is something a whale may pull out with a little new altcoin, perhaps even in the very beginning of bitcoin, but not anymore.

Suppose all Satoshi coins are put for sale, that would still not be enough to "crash" Bitcoin, it simply doesn't work that way. The cheaper it gets, the higher the pressure to buy.

Market manipulation exists, but its much more limited than you think, thanks to this thing called "peers" (everyone else) it does self regulate itself. Especially when its something highly wanted, unlike some obscure altcoin.

Pump Bitcoin to 1M? There is just not enough money in the world for that. If you do your homework, you will notice that each "pump" and "dump" cycle is less and less % of Bitcoin's price over time, as the coin gets in the hands of more people, their manipulation ability shrinks. Of all the coins out there, bitcoin is the less manipulable, which in turns makes it more trusted. Maturity they call it.

The problem with some theorists is that everything works by magic inside their minds. Such as a perfect State controlled economy devoid of the "Evil" market forces. Until you try it, that is... And their arguments against the free market are just as absurd. If you are afraid of the free market, go ahead and move into one of the last "socialist" countries, see if you like living with a couple of USD per month, no healthcare, no education, no security, rampant corruption, shortages etc...

The freedom of bitcoin price ensures that, whatever price it has at any given point, it is a "true" price. Peg a coin artificially to any arbitrary price, and all you do is build pressure against a dam waiting to overflow... And once it does (and it will) it will take everything on its path...

The only alternative to freedom is even more freedom. More exchanges, more decentralization, etc. Speculate all you want, doesn't mean you can pull it out outside of your mind. But the fact that you can, is what ensures everything works. The moment the State intervenes, everything starts breaking apart. Luckily, bitcoin is immune to state intervention, which also gives you the freedom to, go ahead and try manipulating the market, see how long you can get.

I am absolutely sure, even if all whales tried selling bitcoin right now, it would still not crash it. A bit of fluctuation and a lot of action, yes, but never destruction as you claim it. Bitcoin is simply too useful for too many to fail like that, its only inside your imagination.

I agree. We can say that the market begins to synergize between large and small players, creating a single mechanism in which the price depends on each participant. In such a run, only inexperienced and stressful traders lose

It's an open market and the competition is really open to everyone specially to those people who have a lot of money. They can manipulate the market if they want to because it has no limit to everyone. Whales are not exempted with the manipulation everyone can manipulate as long as they have the right amount to get in the competition.

I don't think so lol. Even for a whales, it will not be able to make the price of Bitcoin to that number. Someone needs at least trillions of dollars to make BTC prices go up to 1 million dollars lol. Plus, BTC is not a coin made for pump and dump.

this is the crypto market, who owns most of the crypto (including bitcoin), they control it. crypto decentralized system makes freedom to hold unlimited assets. so the market also has freedom in controlling prices. the technology that bitcoin brings is good, but the crypto market has its own story.

That's right, freedom is one of the right reasons for those who want to have crypto especially bitcoin and without limits.
they control prices in different ways and those who have large quantities of crypto or bitcoin have a big role in the market situation.

but I think to manipulate the market will not be easy, especially if they manipulate on a large scale. if manipulation of the market on a small scale maybe they can still do that, and I think it will definitely not be easy because competition will continue to occur and large funders are not just one person. surely they have different ways to look for profit in the market.

I agree with you that the price of bitcoin has been manipulated by the holder of the pope bitcoin most they can do whatever they want them to control the price of bitcoin on the market and make the market does not normally even price can be directly dropped dramatically and drastically increases have already occurred where BTC in years 2017 BTC soared and plummeted in the years 2018–2019.

market manipulation can still be done if they have a lot of capital and also support price movements, maybe it can happen easily when the time is right and also has a lot of capital. if we follow then we must know the time to start and also the time to stop and accuracy is also needed, but if we do not want to take risks it is better to stay away from the market at such times.

It really isn't hard at all. The wonders of a public blockchain will show you that every 10 minutes or so (every block, rather), there's a transaction of 1 or more BTC for sure.

I'm not saying a lot of us do it a lot of the time, but it's easy enough to find if you look for it.

But 100 BTC? You can't do shit with the market on 1 platform for 1 hour, never mind weeks! Have you taken a look recently at daily volumes on a liquid platform?

Seriously, decentralized in nature doesnt prevent bitcoin market from price manipulation just like others business setting and if you follow whale alerts (https://whale-alert.io/) transaction will see that whenever a single or many whales dump thousands of bitcoin it drastically affect the price of bitcoin market. 
I guess you new here because even crypto newbies believe the price to be manipulated.

As they say that we can't control the market but we can if we are rich or what should I say part of whales, who are controlling the market price. and you said it right @alexey14 that market movements is a whole different and being manipulated but in this manipulation, wise trader also have the benefit because they can earn profit if they are working hard to know what will be the next move even it is not predictable. in this situation we should know the whole story and learn the movements.

It's been long news already that bitcoin is manipulates, there is chance that it is when we know there are whales that really do focus on gaining more and more in crypto with the way they also do to have connections to some news portal to influence other thru hype. What we need is to be smart enough to decide on our own investment.

In every type of market there are powerful persons and organization that can manipulate the price. In stock market there are jockeys who have power to pump and dump a specific stocks while in cryptocurrency market, there are whales who have huge amount of bitcoin that can easily influence its movement. Manipulation is everywhere we cannot do about it and for me it is now normal.

I think in all types of assets, large holders of individuals or their institutions can manipulate prices, especially in the cryptocurrency or bitcoin market which is completely unregulated and there is no regulatory authority so it is natural that there are often signs of manipulating the market.
so I believe that whales play a role in influencing the market and if one of them sells some or all of them, then the price of bitcoin will vibrate or weaken.

I can't get the reason still many people are against the manipulation though they don't have really nothing to do about it to stop it. In my opinion, with these cases in cryptocurrency community, what is better to do is to comply and accept the fact the profits goes to those who have more control, and if we have less control over the market, we'll be good if we try to be in the stream with whales, follow their movements and get the profits. These manipulation is a just a mere fact that cryptocurrency is profitable.

No doubt the price of bitcoin is been manipulated by few rich whales, but they just can't pump the price to $1M neither will they be able to dump the price to $100. This will have to determined by the community and other heavy traders. Well the manipulation can be healthy if one knows how to trade the market with the whales.

I think whales don't have to spend that huge amount to manipulate Bitcoin prices.  All they have to do is ride some bad news and FUD the market.  Then make their huge stash of Bitcoin to be on the sell wall and sell some of it to make it look that the market is crashing.  Once the prices is down they then tend to buy at the bottom and ride the good news again to put hype on the market.  Then rinse and repeat.  They gain extra cash and extra BTC along the process thus making them bigger whale.

No, not at all this is your lack of understanding no one can manipulate the market. Especially Crypto markets.

Indeed, instead of putting the blame to the whales, we should align our investment strategies and trading manners with how the market flows as this changes are what makes bitcoin profitable, after all it's nit like they can drastically manipulate bitcoin's amount. They definitely could but not to an extreme extent. We should do our best to thrive in this environment and think of the rollbacks as opportunities to invest more

they do it with the flow of trends that occur at the same time, whales cannot make fud without context which is bound by the active fundamentals of real news. They also continue to try to protect their bitcoin income land. If done too often and transparently the market will read quickly, the most important thing is that their manipulation is still within the limits of active consolidation in the short term.

Because some people took advantage of manipulating the market and make money out of it. That's not fair for those who are not knowledgeable on how the market moves or works. Market manipulation is a bad thing if the person manipulates it doesn't do it in a right way. The one who manipulates it have has the power to control and manage how money moves in the market and maybe they seize their opportunity to took advantage and get more money.

Why haven't they done it until now ??
The price of BTC is $ 1m, if they could why until now the price is still around $ 7k ??
For the altcoin market I might believe, but not for bitcoin.
Which is a large market capacity in the crypto industry.

People make manipulating price for bitcoin by giving bad news and impact for investor panic for selling and bitcoin price, for manipulated by their self is impossible because bitcoin only have limited supply about 21 billion and hard can buy bitcoin all, they try to give bad news or bitcoin to make many people want to sell coin with lower price.

bitcoin prices can indeed be manipulated but that does not mean the price of bitcoin is fully controlled by the whales. for example there are whales that sell bitcoin in large quantities then the price of bitcoin will go down and this will be an opportunity for some other investors to buy bitcoin. and this will make the price of bitcoin increase again. bitcoin prices are completely influenced by demand and supply.

in the market there will always be price manipulation, but it cannot be manipulated every day. so at a certain time the market can be manipulated, especially when there is bad news from the media, then they can manipulate the price. but it is true that they do not manipulate each time, because pure movements in market prices must be opposed to whales who manipulate.

Once the demand will grow the big whales will have difficulty in manipulating the market especially the bitcoin price. And now that there are more and more who have notice and invest in bitcoin then time will surely come that they will not be able to manipulate the price anymore.

But right now, we should just follow how the market works as we don't have the power yet to stop them in manipulating the market. This is our only way to make a profit in this type of environment.

why say so  ? whales are rich  .i dont think that they will have a hard time controlling the market even if the demand of it is growing but whales can ask for help on other whales so that they can be more powerful  . being manipulated or not , you are correct  . we must only go with the flow   . hodl when market is dumping or buying can also be a good idea to do  . while selling should be done when they manipulate in opposing direction   .  just dont think of countering the whales because you will only be failed   .

They (whales) have a sneaky thought to manipulate value along with the user's reputation and interest. they (whales) are also not arbitrary in manipulating values because it can reduce the interest in the cryptocurrency market and ultimately those who suffer huge losses. no one can ban anyone who wants to hold large amounts of bitcoin, decentralize cryptocurrency.

I strongly agree that the market is controlled by whales or big players who have a large amount of bitcoin. So if that price moves
suddenly for no apparent reason, like today bitcoin from $ 7500 rise to $ 7900 in just a few hours. And nothing big news that happened,
I am very sure this is whales doing to manipulate the market.So do not easily panic if you see a sudden price down or up.Because whales
are manipulating prices so they can make a profit. We need to be more careful in making decisions.

They can do that but obviously, they have their own ways of doing things and I don't think they would just sell at this price or make something that can hugely affect the price. As a currency with great technology and a lot of supporters in the world, they would not just upset a lot of investors, they should be the ones making moves to increase their profit not lose their other means of profit.

As of my knowledge and experience, Bitcoin and its market cannot be manipulated by someone or even a group of people because the market and BTC's price is defined by the trades and volume of it, especially the holders. Hence, even there are someone with big BTC and sells it low making the price low too, it wouldn't necessarily drop the BTC's price.

If you look at the market history, there are cases where whales dump a huge amount of BTC across the trading platform that resulted to Bitcoin crash within that day until the effect of that dump diminish.  I am saying that it does affect the price of BTC if coupled with FUD, it can even crash the price lower thus manipulation comes in.

if the plustoken party throws all their current eth and converts it to the btc pair and then mixes it back to the other erc20. then we can see the big waves of pump and dump from btc. Things like this still might happen at any time. it is possible not to be frontal just like that, but the possibility of manipulation is still very real on a long-term scale.

We know how whales influence the market price, they'd play it oftentimes and that is why we could say it manipulation. It sounds like that but living with my trust towards Bitcoin's decentralized form, they never controlled everything in here. I know its hard to believe cause that is actually we've been heard but that is actually their strategies, they only have a capability that it will change and because they'll find out that it helps them to become profitable.

The earlier you know the better and it cant be overemphasis. Another thing to know is how to benefit from the manipulation and to know the cycle toward the bullrun. We have come to make money here except you want to deceive yourself and crypto has produced more billionaires recently and could get more people into billions in the next run.

This is pretty normal, in every market, there are the whales and the market are being manipulated that is how they profit in this scene. Controlling the prices according to what they are wanting will give them a ton of profit, in the long run, it may sound costly but they will generate big profit by manipulating prices. Having this kind of person is really fun in the market especially if you can ride the pump they are creating.

That's right it is normally happens even in other market. The manipulating of big whales to the current situation of the market are giving them tons of profits and because of that they are continuously doing this in order to maintain what they want on the market especially the values of bitcoin and other coins. They are creating the pump or increasing of the bitcoin by manipulating on it because those big whales or people who have a large amount of bitcoin are the one behind this, they are the one who controls half of the market and maybe a lot of them decided to pump the bitcoin in order for some people can ride on it. Even though the manipulation of the market was very costly they intent to do it because they know they will earn profit also by doing this.

Manipulation isn't fair for all holders and traders, this should be done at fair management but it wasn't proven in the actual activities. Many individuals were saying about the market manipulations, but there's no concrete evidence to support their accusations. That's how worst the situation is, because of fake rumors circulating around us.

indeed the main role that is able to influence market prices is that of the whales who have a large amount of bitcoin, they can easily play market prices, although basically market prices can change according to the demand and supply of many people but the role of whales can also be a major factor capable of changing market chart

Yes, that's the disadvantage of Bitcoin because whales are in control of it, so it is up to us how we are going to take action with market behavior, so before you will invest and hold Bitcoin make sure that you are always ready with something that will happen. Bitcoin, really can be manipulated anytime, so we must be ready with it all the time.

Some other whales having more than 100 BTC could easily make an altcoin pumped to the moment that it could look like hyped and bullish, but in terms of bitcoin, it needs not just a whale but many people who just wait for one another's move to make a change to the market. Basically, with their actions, people like us who doesn't hold allot of bitcoins are just following their signals to make some profits which is indeed, turns out for us to be manipulated without us directly knowing it. PS. Being manipulated doesn't necessarily mean negatively.

Yes it's been manipulated. The group of whales are using their strategies to manipulate bitcoin. People who are not experienced well in trading they get manipulated easily. As all of these are common one should be smart enough while trading or holding bitcoin.

Those whales are real threat to the crypto market, they are already rich and there find it more comfortable to Hodl and if the market by chance should pump, their single transaction weighs heavily and reduces the chances of many poor investors. In the process of considering them, market is manipulated strategically for a balance.

Price of the Bitcoin literally not good when we are comparing to previous month and now. We are expecting the bitcoins value to boost to next level somewhat around 10k USD or even more.
That is real and general worth of BTC but we people doesn't want the scammers and bad news for this marketplace. It will heavily affect the cryptocurrency space.

If so, then whales are not a threat that can damage market value, because with the manipulation done at least it makes a balance with its own flow. They do not work alone because the market can still go up and down in accordance with the cycle that is supposed to occur in each period.

Not possible to manipulated bitcoin price although we have 100 bitcoin, many bigger investor looking way how to manipulated with bitcoin price but always failed because bitcoin not only holding by investor but many company accepted bitcoin and hold much bitcoin in their wallet, just giving bad news how to manipulated bitcoin in lower price and giving positive or good news to make bitcoin have higher price.

Well ofc since there are so many bitcoins on the market it's something we know that happens regularly.

Only moving massive amounts of money will give a true influence on the markets price as a big fluctuation.

Since each individual transaction or a specific buy value will make price go even higher thus charts will go off the roof.

They don't want to damage the market but make money on inexperienced newcomers especially on leverage traders.

They usually buy and sell the same amount of coins and their goal is to squeeze shorts and longs or to buy futures and create a buy or sell pressure on bitcoin markets to make those futures pay.

A typical move by a manipulator is that bart simpson pattern or a fast move up and down like the one on December 4. THey buy 1 thousand bitcoins and then dump that back a few hours later.

The market could be manipulated since it is depending on the supply and demand for bitcoin. By a group of whales, I think they could easily affect the market of bitcoin by holding a very big amount of bitcoin and also when if all have a big percentage of bitcoin this could easily affect the supply of bitcoin in the market affecting the market price of bitcoin. Also most of the time they do this in one exchange that could easily work and then they are just going to sell their bitcoin at the same time making the market dump quickly.

I think this is one of the weakness of bitcoin that the whales seems can manipulated the price depend on they want and no matter how struggle we are expecting bitcoin price high again but eventually the price of btc will determined on whales movements but i think this is the cause too why some countries didn't admit bitcoin as the currencies because very vulnerable to manipulation

We cannot deny that fact where the market is really manipulated. Whales are existing and thet have high amount of portfolio that can influence the price of bitcoin. The recent pump is cause by the whales, the manipulation is in everywhere and that is why we should always monitor the price action in order to avoid dump and also to see opportunities in the market.

Bitcoin now are manipulated and price of this are so very unpredictable that's why we need more knowledge and patience here and also be alert because anytime soon some unexpected event will happen like price increase and rapidly dump in a minutes. 

from the moment I entered cryptocurrency I knew that the price of bitcoin could be manipulated by whales or large traders. and I don't really think about this as long as we can take advantage of the volatility of bitcoin we will benefit. as long as we can follow the movement of the whale we will benefit. and also not every day the pope will manipulate the price of bitcoin.

they can pump to $1 million?even they will combined all their crypto assets they cannot pump Bitcoin into Million value dude so dont be exaggerated .

for Bitcoin to reach that amount we need also another sets of investors to put money inside cryptocurrency and that needs mass adoption.

100-200 btc is able to change direction because whales can prioritize the gaps that arise when bitcoin fails with a resistance test, many traders end up taking the same thing when it almost touches liquidation. Manipulation does not always have to be specific because the difference of $ 500 has made a big difference in the profits they plan, they succeed first before the market returns to recovery, the failure ratio is very small if it occurs in the short term because they can return to long positions.

with what you said,this means investing in crypto is totally gamling?because for someone to profit there must be someone to lose their investment?
we knew that if whales is manipulating the market in a certain time is they are waiting for Victims to enter and buy Bitcoin ( as they believe that pump will continue)then after they reached the target investments they will dump and the investors will get trapped with that price margin?so if thats the case it is better for all of us just to go in gambling site as the winning is much higher?

Sometimes Whale only stores their assets for the long term,They don't do Pump and Dump prices, only a few Whales are greedy and manipulate prices in the market.Indeed, we can take a benefit from what they do by learning technical analysis techniques when trading so that we do not lose when they manipulate prices.

that's what we have to do, for example we can take advantage of the price of bitcoin which we think is being manipulated by the pope or you say big traders are our chance to profit, for example we can do that, but for example we can't predict and of course you easy to panic when prices change quickly, I suggest not to follow it so that you don't suffer defeat because you have experienced panic when trading it so you wrong predict .

Yes, very true, it is manipulated because it cannot be controlled by the government, it is controlled by whales too, not only Bitcoin but almost all crypto that's why we keep saying that crypto is risky and it will be up to us if we are still going to take risk, by buying and holding it. So, be ready to embrace the risk always and let's not put all our money with this.

BTC yesterday 8300$ but today 7760$, Why? its not normal.

It is normal, that is why allot of investors do prefer to invest in cryptocurrency, this volatility is turning their funds into instant profit if they hit the right button whether to buy or to sell their bitcoins. Though, with this huge volatility, we couldn't easily spot the manipulation or state that we are being manipulated by the market but, to think of the possible reasons why bitcoin is suddenly increasing way up higher that serves as the main reason why we buy and sell bitcoin at this time. In simple manner, it is our freedom if we want to join the ride, or let it pass and make our investment secured.

Agree with you, it is manipulated by many whales, who has been waiting for bitcoin to more dump for them to hoard many more, they are the ones who is manipulating bitcoin to pump too, there is no doubt about it, and we need to accept this fact, if they want to make a coin to be pump they will put a high price order and then they will dump too if they want, they are the one who builds large walls too.

unfortunately you are correct. but the main reason of it is crypto market is still newly born thing. that is why bitcoin distrubition is not fair. there are some people that could collect huge amount before. And they are easily manipulating the market. It will be better after a while.

We can't deny that the price sometimes is being manipulated by the whales I think it's due to bitcoin is still young and those whales were early entering the market so they could have a lot of bitcoins so they have control over it, but as time goes by bitcoin will be adopted widely and it will reduce their power to control the price. Just keep promoting bitcoin to the world so many people can buy it and hold it.

There are isn't sure that it was manipulated because there are a lot of people who do have bitcoin or we can say that the bitcoin was widely spread so even the whale do anything by bitcoin then it can cause a little amount reducing because bitcoin has a lot of user now.

Seriously, why don't they do it?
they "whales" do not need huge profits, for them to enjoy life and see the losses of others

This is in fact a normal price action. We had broken a key descending trendline of the bear market but then retraced back below it. I guess most traders got scared that the bear market is still in play and this pump is over. It was also a good moment to take profit if you entered  somewhere at 7500 - 7800.

We'll see if this is going to be a continuation or a dead cat bounce.

Its not normal for a newbies in the market but if you look at the history price, you will see that this kind of trend is a big problem before and hopefully not anymore this year. The market is being manipulated, if you have big holdings then you have the power to do so, we cannot stop that.

It might not be new to the newbies, but it is must to know about it. when days pass one will get to know and will be used to it. Market manipulation of bitcoin is just a trap to make it attractive for all users creating a mind to invest. Moreover this manipulation can't be done in larger level.

Although the possibility exists, there is no strong evidence that whales can manipulate the price of Bitcoin. Moreover, cryptocurrency trading is getting wider, there may be a market maker but its power will have a big influence if it is driven by other forces. Seeing this condition, I am more inclined to choose an analysis were sales on a small scale that continues and accumulates that make this bearish so long.

Are you that dumb to ask this question, seriously ???

Do you know what GREED is ???   Throughout History, rich people that do not need more money have done varying degrees of horrible and unethical things to get even richer...  They would be happy to see you bankrupt, homeless, to get another few million....

Hard facts

Just to correct the right word for what you are describing is GREEDY and just only GREED. So those greedy people are rich but still for them their richness is not enough that's why they will whatever it takes just to get the money that they really wanted to and yes they are happy to see poor people and they dont care of them even if how they are.

I think that several factors can be identified that affect the entire cryptocurrency market and the cryptocurrency pricing.  Of course, speculators can’t do without manipulations, among which there may really be big whales, since it is precisely an increase in the supply of bitcoin in the market that reduces the price.  But you also need to pay attention to various negative news that constantly negatively affects the cryptocurrency market, but in my opinion it is very difficult to identify the real reason for the market drop.  It is as if many people believe in the prospects of cryptocurrency, invest their money in cryptocurrency, but there is no market reaction to demand.

I'm sure you posted this due to the recent pump which went nearly 2 hundred up yesterday, which is a clear sign of manipulating just looking how long that line is, suggesting that a whale must have entered the market and flooded the purchase orders. Then it's only going sideways for at least 10 hours now with no signs of increasing demand, maybe taking a recent dump because it was considered a degree of resistance, then another potential whale pump. This market is definitely manipulated

This could just be the concept formulated by the people upon concluding that manipulation is due to the fsct that market increase and decreases. But actually not, we are just adhering as a whole to the decision of others for us to bebe profitable in the market. Knowing that we have the freedome to decide which action to choose in accordance to the current market status. Manipulation mainly be, in a form of public advertisement that could change the way how you think about a paricular crypto, and not just upon viwing market cap and changes bitcoin has.

That only a few large whales control the market is a statement that has no proof. The number of wallets with an impressive number of bitcoins is constantly increasing. There are always investors with different investment opportunities who invest in Bitcoin. Huge investment funds and institutional investors are also interested in investing in Bitcoin. I think that in the future it will be more difficult to influence the price of digital gold, because its distribution will be more uniform.

That is the old fact hahaha, if you hold many of bitcoin and/or you have another friend who hold many bitcoin too, you can make a small or large group to control the price.

Example: you and your other friend sell Bitcoin in mass value, and then the bitcoin price will down and next you and your friend buy again and make a positive issue hahaha so cruel :)

Absolutely true fact will be happened in the behind scene of Bitcoin market. Big whales gang can be easily manipulating whole of the cryptocurrency market not only specific coin. Those whales are own millions of dollars they will sell all of btc in bull run market they just take this opportunity but ultimately small investors were terrible situations. Right now BTC market is going big pump but there no movement in crypto.

Everywhere the market is always the same, there is always manipulation that occurs. Whether it's the stock market, commodities, including the cryptocurrency market. Because there is a role from big players, without big players the market will not be able to produce large volumes. So let's enjoy whatever happens in the market, because we are required to be objective in making decisions in the market. It depends on how you take advantage of the situation, and take the moment to gain the benefits that you expect.

All markets are manipulated, The problem is knowing when the pumps and the dumps will be.

Even in real life such as stock market, forex are also manipulated, that's why we really need to extra careful in doing trading, especially if you have some expert that you are eyeing for, remember they are also trading on it, and what they will 'call' or give signal might be the opposite, and for sure we are aware of it, that's why extra careful is a must.

not that easy, bitcoin is not easy to be slammed in two directions instantly, the market always evaluates outside their interests.

Many types of whales have different interests, they can manipulate altcoin as desired, but not with bitcoin, because market sentiment still has power. We as small investors can not expect much, but it does not matter as long as we can still follow the progressive market developments.

If we knew when the pump and dump were working we would have become rich. No one knows when it happens except those who control this market, they have too much money and can do anything they want. And this market is too small compared to other markets so its level of manipulation is also much higher and the price can easily go up or down in a short time. I hope in the next few years the market cap of this market will increase to a few trillion, from which we will see less manipulation.

Very well said, Manipulations are the parts of every market. In case of crypto markets, the better command over the knowledge of pumps and dumps of the business are important.as in this case, this manipulation is caused by the whales, so carefully analyzing the common manipulation techniques of sell walls and pumps and dumps used by them will help you in better trading. Beside caution, I think that that optimistic mindset will also help you to deal with manipulations.

The present up and down bitcoin price between 8k and 9k is caused by those taking the advantage of the price pump, we call them 'the weak hands' , i believe that after these weak hand are done dumping bitcoin will move over 9k

Yeah, I believe in this too.
Market will show us, hope for this.