Bitcoin Forum

Perhaps it's just the forums, but I feel like there's a lot of negative vibes coming from BTC right now. 
I've following Bitcoin and mining for a while but never bothered with forums until recently.  Is this common amongst forum-goers or is it really just Bitcoin in general?

What do you mean by toxic? The MtGox fiasco hit us pretty badly, so we're licking our wounds from that.

The only thing I've noticed is an uptick in concern trolls recently.

well many thousands of users have lost bitcoin due to gox.. so their emotions are high. to add to that their coin was worth $1200 which if they sold to fiat would have been alot. but if gox was to suddenly admit they have the coins. peoples coins are worth half as much since the fiasco began.

then we can add other things to the pile.. and you will understand that some people emotions are being noticed more, and their professional writing patterns of last year, have changed.

i think wall street had similar emotional comments in 2007-2008.

 

Hard to explain, more of a feeling than an observation, I suppose.
I don't mean to troll at all.  Just wondering if I'm alone in feeling this.

+1


this removal of newbie section, removed the filter that was helping to reduce random comments of panic, scamming and offtopic ramblings

I think the biggest problem is the demise of Silk Road. People don't have the necessary tools to relax anymore.

+100000

This has got to be some kind of non-negative vibe:

http://bitcoinmagazine.com/11242/currency-compassion-texas-bitcoin-conference/

ASIC mining is coming to Scrypt, so that puts most miners (already pushed out of bitcoin mining) out of Scrypt mining soon. Along with steep declines in revenue from the mining due to the crush of miners entering the last few months. I suspect most miners are not going to be breaking even on their hardware. Throw in all the hacked exchanges (Mt. Gox, Coinex, Poloniex, Flexcoin, it just seems to keep coming), negative press, the Dorian Nakamoto fiasco, a flood of pointless scamcoins, negative government actions - it's all tough sledding right now. I'm very bullish on bitcoin and for altcoins in the long run, but there will be a lot of casualties on the road to victory.

Makes me wish this forum was set up like Reddit with upvoting

This has been said already, but most of those who had money on gox were gamblers, gox had problems for months and people deposited there because of its high (fake) price. I remember people saying "Gox been around for years it's not gonna go that easy", even when the site was down for days.

Another thing is that the funds are not completely lost. They allegedly lost 2/3 of the assets and the remaining ones got blocked by court, those lawyers will suck Karpeles dry. Some even claim he faked the whole theft and holds most of the coins.

I'm still quite positive, bitcoin has great potential and we'll see $1000 again, just maybe not in the next few months. There was the same negativity after the crash in April 2013.

Ya I noticed that as well.  I don't really get why someone would purport to be into bitcoin and be so anti-bitcoin and then join the premier bitcoin forum and then go posting threads bashing bitcoin. Yet I see these threads often, at an increasing amount (I think) in the last 6 months.

After reading some of the Snowden docs it makes me wonder if there is any tax-payer funded naysayers here, because apparently the NSA and CIA do like to do that sort of thing to fracture online communities as discussed in the leaks (reference "How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations"          https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/    )

But it is more likely what ebeliever said.    I know having being scammed a couple of times, the most recently from Jon Montroll which stole over 8000 btc including one of my own, that it can really sour you to the community.

There are cycles. Usually right as the negativity reaches its peak, we get the rebound.

This is almost certainly the case.

Remember that just a few months ago we had BCB planting web bugs in high traffic threads, followed by a forum member who was apparently a high ranking member of one of those agencies getting hacked and outed.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=335658.0

Even if "they" aren't actively working to disrupt the forum, they are most definitely here.

I believe the post known as Anonymint is one such tax-payer funded (or bankster funded) naysayer, doing quite a nice job of spewing cognitive dissonance.  Cleverly mixing pro-coin statements (in an effort to achieve credibility) mixed with fear-mongering and nay saying.  

I think he may be referring to the "snark".

When a bunch of super smart techie people get together, "snark" is the most common means of communication.

To outsiders, it would definitely seem "toxic" lol ...

-B-

The Bitcoin environment was worse when Gox melted down twice in 2011.
MtGox was the only large exchange.
Almost every thread was about Gox this, debate about Gox that...You've been Goxed again...When will Gox re-open?
Gox needs to roll-back the trades after the hack..Gox cannot roll-back the trades......etc, etc.

BTC eventually lost over 90% of it's value.
What we have now is much better.  :)

I felt it too. I think there's some anger about Gox, but Gox has highlighted flaws and wider issues in the bitcoin ecosystem. Not just security, but regulation, mining, privacy, the reliability of exchanges, wall street money....

And I think there's more critical thinking than there was when we were riding the escalator to $1200, blinded by the easy money, thinking we were god's gift to trading.

Everyone is starting to think about how to manage those issues and as a diverse community there's different perspectives. Ironically despite the ardent opinions, it's not members of the community that will shape many of the answers. it's in the hands of outside players like Wall St, and national governments. That fear and feeling of helplessness too is causing tension and frustration.

This is a different type of paradise.
People who are not wealthy yet (like me) have another chance, just learn to see through the toxic haze.

Exactly, I think your post is exactly what has happen. The easy ride is over, and some serious work needs to be done.

The only thing that's happening is a cleansing of the original pack of scumbags that hopped on Bitcoin for a quick profit. They are slowly being weeded out through three letter agency investigations and by their own stupidity. It isn't nearly as bad now as it was in 2011 when every other thread was about, "Bitcoin only exists to buy drugs on Silk Road". I predict that within a year even more of the old guard will be gone. New and hopefully more honest characters will take their place. The Bitcoin landscape is looking more promising every day.

I do kind of miss Atlas, Matthew and BitcoinPorn though. They added a little spice to a mostly dry finance forum.

There seem to be a lot of new users that are into ignorance and stupidity

Interestingly, this doesn't get mentioned much.  I wonder how many people are even aware that the term "goxed" comes from this time.  Here's one early use of the term.

I think it has something to do with you being a noob.  ;)

haha

I think people are angy because the price didn't go up as wanted/expected.

You should of assumed to never trust one company with storing your bitcoins temporarily or as a "safe wallet".

That is logic... Whoever did that - deserved to get BURNT!  *sssssss*

Agreed.

yep, the opposite is correct: we have so much great news every day. all trolls should sell.

Is there a reason why you are deleting so many of your posts?
Do you do it manually, or did you use a script?

i would agree with your assessment. the BTC market lacks excitement right now. still reeling from the gx fiasco, that gave legs to other rumors, whether true or not.

it's gonna take some REALLY good news to get the momentum, it had in December, back.


i know some people will talk about similar drops in BTC happening last year, but the fact of the matter is more people are involved now. more emotion, and drama, and the swings are going to be bigger now.

Maybe I am too optimistic, but I feel right now is the time to get in. I have been watching from the sidelines for a while thinking that $1200 was a bubble. When Mt Gox helped pop it I jumped in. I am kind of hoping the reduced price lowers the mining competition as well but only time will tell on that one.
 

It is a great time to buy some BTC (and alts too), as long as you have more money ready for even lower prices (if/when those come)

Yeah I am thinking maybe as low as $250-$300 before the recovery begins. The upside is that it will chase even more of the shady types out of Crypto altogether. Right now I am running a small miner and buying small amounts here and there. My first deposit in my wallet was a really cool moment. 

Bitcoin get poisoned by mt.gox.

Once the stench goes away it should be fine.

Is there anything in the new EU banking union deal that would allow that? Can anyone comment on this?

There would be blood in the streets if that were to happen, and I would be in the forefront with my pitchfork!

People have been writing that exact sentence for the last 8 months.

If we didn't hit $250 after Gox failure, China "ban", Thailand "ban", Russia "ban", Shrem arrest, .......... we aren't going to hit $250 later.

Period.  Stop waiting to buy, and buy.

-B-

Well some negatives news came out, gox, ukrainian case, btc going down so im sure that's the reasons why people are more upset.
Now we need more good informations. Stay safe guys!

It's going down becuase I keep buying. Seriously. Bought 200$ worth, dropped 40$ that day.
Bought 200 more earlier in the week, dropped 30$ that day.
Bought 50$ this morning, has dropped 20$ today.

sonofabeach!

The whole system is now contrived on blinded optimism, speculation, HYPE and well written articles.
Truth is their is nothing revolutionary about a file transfer.
Its a novel idea but people aren't stupidly going to stop using fiat like what they have been for centuries to save a few bucks on TX fees.

People also need that feeling of ownership, virtual currency of course can never offer this.
My argument here is that the whole idea is to eventually convert it to cash is it not?
Now, if that wasn't your cup of tea, the services/merchants that accept bitcoin are just as ridiculous and not much the same, as 4 years ago. The same reason I originally stopped mining.
Just look at the calling for story's of business accepting bitcoin.

Sadly the game rules are: To make any profit in this game, you sell your bitcoin to those caught up in the Hype. Heyyyy, Ponzi!

Bitcoin got its foot in the door of the worlds attention with the Chinese spike.
But as that is no longer the case, it is standing on its own two feet and beginning to kneel.
Greed has destroyed bitcoin, as well as hackers. Its original concepts have been long lost. But when the giant farms go bust, poetic justice will have been served. But pity the environment, same old human story!

Bitcoin has had more than 4 years to establish itself as a real currency/commodity. Sadly, it just simply is not going to happen, but a million forum users will tell you otherwise!
I'm not even going to elaborate on wallet failures. Myself and a friend also have had attacks from rogue mods on this site.

A smart man would be getting out now, if not a month ago, and come back in a month or two once things clarify more. But it is only human nature to dream!

+100000000

Bitcoin's market cap has grown spectacularly in the last 4 years, as have the number of vendors accepting it. It is so successful it is spawning hundreds of copy-cats and spin-off coins.

You sound like a Russian general in April 1945, as his armies beseige the tattered remnants of the Reich in Berlin, whining about how we'll never defeat the Nazis. Bizarre.

mattboldfield nice to see there are some rational folks still lurking.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/12/us-eu-banks-savings-idUSBREA1B1ZI20140212

http://www.maxkeiser.com/2014/03/eu-agrees-banking-union-bail-ins-cometh/

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101466741

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/paulo-casaca/uk-finance_b_4888609.html


http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-banking-resolution-bank-bailout-lehman-brothers-488961

http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2013/08/09/global-looting-the-new-eu-bailin-law-was-passed-8-days-ago-did-you-notice/

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fm/2013/02/pdf/fm1302.pdf#page=59

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/bail-in-powers-implementation-including-draft-secondary-legislation/bail-in-powers-implementation

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-02/martin-armstrong-warns-europeans-coming-expropriation-10-everyones-accounts

http://new.euro-med.dk/20140304-one-world-taxation-and-imf-as-global-central-bank-underway.php

Thankyou - likewise!

no it is always like this.
enjoy ! :|

Pure speculation, probably meaningless...


That looks eerily similar to the chart of silver from the breakdown since 2011 $48 peak.

We have had this kind of toxicity before many many times

I am buying and mining small amounts every week. I don't have the fiat funds to jump in with both feet just yet but I do have some skin in the game now and will keep adding. 

Obviously you have no comprehension of what bitcoin is or why it's revolutionary if you think it's a file transfer. 

OP doesn't know what toxic is.

I'm thinking if the environment were really toxic, we'd be in single digits by now.

The recent price decline can be traced by a false leak by Sina Weibo (Chinese Twitter) that Bitcoin was completely banned in China:


The PBOC later retracted this statement:

Correct it is not just file transfer. It is a decentralized consensus (on transfer or any action we choose to put in the block chain) without needing to trust any one. It solved the Byzantine General's problem (was an unsolved problem known since 1975 at least).

But I don't think that was mattboldfield's main thrust. I think he was saying that Bitcoin (at least in its current state) isn't going to appeal to the masses. And I agreed in prior posts as follows:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=518453.msg5741903#msg5741903 <--- this one is most concise
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=491181.msg5818947#msg5818947
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=518453.msg5736229#msg5736229
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=518453.msg5775371#msg5775371
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400235.msg5718375#msg5718375 <--- will adoption peak at 100 million?

+1

This gives us a chance to remind people of something important:
The Bitcoin project is exciting and better days are still ahead.

I wasn't talking to you  Anonymint.  
But while we are on the topic:

We get that you don't like Bitcoin.  Yet you've made over 3000 posts here and continue on your crusade.  So either you have an agenda or you're just addicted to debating with a community you don't support.  

Go for it.  I won't respond to your foolishness any more.  You've already painted yourself into a corner, and others will continue to point out your follies.

I will leave you with a final thought:
Chinese proverb:  "A person is not wise simply because one talks a lot."

I knew there was a use for that Ignore button... ;)

What if AnonyMint is a bankster shill?

I guess the fun and excitement you always have in a innovative environment is wearing off. Lots of people who does not understand the revolutionary aspects of the technology are swarming around. Some even seems to think the bubble is the whole point. I guess its time to frequent these forums a bit less and start making more decentralizing software  :'(

If 10 things happens, of which 9 are positive and 1 is negative, the press will be all over the negative thing.

This can create an environment where seemingly bitcoin is painted in a bad light, however, if you go beneath the negative press, you will see all the positive development that is taking place.

http://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin

if you read that subreddit daily, you will see there's not just negativity, but also a lot of positive things happening.

The main problem with Bitcoin is the lack of a safe, reliable, simple, user-friendly infrastructure that allows the Average Joe to buy, sell and use bitcoins for his everyday purchasing needs. We can't expect the Average Joe to learn how to use paper wallets, brain wallets and the like. There must be a user-friendly infrastructure in place before Bitcoin can start to take off and eventually reach mainstream adoption. There must be trusted third parties.

/r/bitcoin isn't much different, though

I think that would be correct, except the 0.1% seems too high (my guesstimate is 0.01-0.03% based on the prior analysis I did of your counting methods and also the Bitcoin market cap is not within an order-of-magnitude of that share of global net worth which is $250+ trillion). Most people coming in are investors and they will be motivated by potential gains. So the longer we are below trendline, the more rocket fuel has been loaded.

How much can the investment grow without a commensurate adoption for real commerce?

The chasm is an interesting concept. Because I was thinking that when we get to 100 million (1.5%) there should be great incentive for global (e.g. internet) merchants to cater to the large global market, so it should catapult from there. There may be a chasm (for those not coming in primarily as investors, i.e. the masses) where the 100 million or so are too spread out globally to drive merchants which tend to be more local in scope.

Thus I think the key is going to be some way of using crypto-currency in trade for something online that is very popular (because it can have global scope and the chasm won't be diluted by physical sparseness). I specifically have a business model in mind for this, w.r.t. to social networking. If I am correct to assume anonymity will be required for this, then Bitcoin isn't it. I am still evaluating this, so I am not sure about that.

Btw, Nadeem called this crash to $500 back in November and is calling for below $100 someday:

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article43420.html
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/article44455.html


He can only be correct if we've already saturated investor adoption. I doubt it.

Yes. I also think altcoins are now beginning to complete with bitcoin for mainstream news coverage. Evidently there are many hidden gems that are practically undiscovered and just waiting to break out on a massive uptrend.

http://altcoinpress.com/2014/03/dogecoins-ben-doernberg-wows-fox-news/

This Ben Doernberg guy explains one possible version of the future quite well. I think he's right on the money.

From what I have seen, there are waves of these feelings and events. It appears that all of the good talk and vibes about Bitcoin come, then bad news comes, then good news, and so on. Almost like the modern economy, just a lot more drastic at times.

The "waves of these feelings and events" are part of human nature/market cycles, or...
...is the Gov/MSM intentionally making BTC volatility more extreme with good media/bad media cycles?

Follow up on my prior post above...


My 0.01% - 0.03% guesstimate was 600,000 to 1.8 million based on world population of 6 billion.

Dogecoin (why don't they pronounce it "doggiecoin" or "dog-ecoin" ???) claims 100,000 users yet the mcap is only $43 million. Apparently it is the copper-zinc penny coin (feel good marketing, donations, cute dogs) and Litecoin is the current silver to Bitcoin's gold.

Isn't market cap more relevant+concrete than the nebulous concept of "users" (not all types of users are the same).

Feel free to copy or reply to this on your other thread that is relevant to this issue.

We are clearly in investment only stage, because who can use a daily currency that is taxed for capital gains on every spend. That will block any major application as a currency until governments bless it as legal tender. But why would governments ever bless it since it removes their authority to control the money supply?

At some point the reality of that has to hit the investment demand. But I guess we have a lot of myopia to go before the "stampede to the exits" realization.

---

1. The hassle of recording and paying tax for numerous daily tidbit transactions is far outweighed by the insignificant value loss of holding $500 in your checking account (exhibit my prior post that average Dogecoin holding is claimed to be $430 per user).

2. You are not thinking like the masses who are not the rich precisely because they don't have a lot of savings to invest. And thus they don't have the same priority set as you. But you as an investor in what you want them to use, need to think like them to understand this investment.

I saw this within my initial study of Bitcoin yet Risto (and you?) apparently haven't registered this in your consciousness yet after years of being invested.

The wildcard is if there could be an application (other than investing) that targeted the rich demographic which is investing in Bitcoin. Well that is...anonymity. They will need it to survive what is coming! And Bitcoin doesn't have it.


You just proved my point.

---

Again you misjudge the masses, because you are not one. You can't put yourself in their mindset and priority set. I can.


In theory yes, but in practice no. I detect you don't have real world experience doing technical support for a software company. I do.

You don't have every user using the same application and tax regime. Some tax regimes are not even efile yet.

And users will avoid something with no advantages which carries the stigma of needing to pay a tax. If they are using it as a currency, they aren't paying attention to gains, and see the tax only as a burden and risk (what if they automation fails, they lose their backup copy, then can't comply with the tax filing!)

Eventually you could get there, but long before that the government will have taken over the exchanges, the pools, and the coin. Or simply offered a digital fiat which doesn't have Bitcoin's problems.

And btw, what is the advantage for the average person to use Bitcoin and go through this hassle to set up this software? None that I can see.

---

---

For those in the 3rd world, they use cash and the vendors they buy from will not be accepting Bitcoin any time soon. Simply worse for them in every way.

There is nothing they can gain from being banked with Bitcoin that they couldn't get with cash.

Even money transfer using Bitcoin is stupid, since they need to convert to cash any way.

For those minority who don't (a super majority does) file taxes in the developed countries, I still don't see what is the reason for them to use Bitcoin?

Most in USA file a tax return to get their payroll deductions refund, or their Child Tax credit, etc.. I don't know about Europe?


For example, localbitcoins doesn't have an app for that.  They would need to customize the app for every tax regime too.


Capital gains is one of them as this scales away from investors to consumers.

Indeed there are many other problems that make Bitcoin impractical. The argument is always offchain services, but those are a problem too or bring us right back to fiat.

I just don't see the big idealistic win. If you are just hoping to help the government create a digital fiat, and get rich on that investment, I doubt it will work out, because of the $223 trillion debt the government is going to confiscate all the wealth it can find. And remember Bitcoin isn't anonymous so you can't reliably hide in it.

P.S. if the quality of my prose is declining, it is because I've been awake for 20 hours and forehead is ready to meet keyboard.

Mate get some rest, wake up and stay away from your monitor for a good week.

This "game" of "wanna be' investor/tycoon really is just wasting your life and money!

You know like me its all B.S. so why even be absorbed in this hypothetical monitory race.

The real world doesn't give a shit about cryptocurrency, it is simply fly shit on a basketball and always will be.

Use your god given talents for something positive for yourself and those close to you.

The rewards are tenfold that of this daydream payout that unfortunately most people around here are obsessed in!

All BITRIP is, is one giant poker machine! The more you put in the more you lose!

I don't think it's so much the toxicity right now as much as lack of any major positive news. We haven't really had anything like "Overstock accepts Bitcoin" or "famous enterpreneur announces his support of Bitcoin" for quite a while. To be fair we haven't had that much bad things either since the Gox fiasco, but right now BTC is just really really quiet and I think some people are getting a bit frustrated.

It did, the first time it received media coverage and popularity among the general public everyone thought it was a ponzi scheme and anybody who talked about Bitcoin was kinda discriminated

mattboldfield, I'd like to hear your reaction to the following even if you disagree with me?

I'm obsessed because if you read my Mad Max (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=365141.0) and CoinCube's Economic Devastation (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.0) threads, I believe we are going into a very severe, global economic implosion starting around 2016ish to worsen until 2020 and beyond, due to precisely $223 trillion in global total debt (not including China's huge shadow debt economy backed by copper, etc and other off balance obligations in every country that are lurking) i.e. 313% of global GDP, very roughly a $quadrillion in derivatives ("weapons of mass destruction"- Buffet), and very roughly a $quadrillion of unfunded social welfare promises made by governments. According to the IMF, this is at least a 200 year high in debt-to-GDP ratio, and I am confident it is the worst ever in recorded history since Mesopotamia when all factors mentioned above are included.

Because of the coincident and concomitant technological unemployment (predicted by the prestigious Oxford University at Cambridge, England to destroy 47% of all existing jobs before 2032), there is no way to grow GDP to pay this off. I explained that (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=455141.msg5654081#msg5654081) those who argue that debt is merely an accounting ledger item and thus can be quickly erased and restarted anew are ignorant. So the only choice we have is which sector of society to charge this write-down to. The governments have made it clear with their actions of austerity, increased taxes, and depositor bail-in plans, that they intend to charge the $quadrillions of write-downs to private wealth and not to the elite who own most of the wealth who run the bankster usury system (which is also the government via power vacuum capture (http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=984) of democracy). Imploding private wealth means the government won't have anything remaining to tax. Do you remember what Hitler did (and many other examples in history) when he couldn't raise revenues to pay for his universal health care system? Euthanasia. Y'all do know I hope that Hitler was printing his own money and doing massive public works programs such as the Autobahn.

This looks like it can downward spiral into a Dark Age. That affects all of us.

The only solution I see is for there to be a way for the entrepreneurs who make the world prosperous to have a way to hide their wealth from government so they can continue generating prosperity. Gold won't work, because gold can't be transacted very anonymously over distance nor without being snooped on by those you are transacting with, and this is why every move away from fractional reserves to gold always implodes the economy as the velocity of money plummets (it is down by 50% since 2007). Even the 1800s gold standard was based on fractional reserves at the private unregulated banks (and no Andrew Jackson didn't stop this and concomitant frequent bank runs which is why we ended up with a central bank later), we were not using physical gold as money.

So I devised a (as of yet unimplemented, unpublished) solution for crypto-currency that is reliably anonymous and fixes many of the other problems that I mentioned about Bitcoin.

I believe this solution might save us. And so thus I am obsessed with surviving. I hope you are too.

That makes me a troll? ???

P.S. On the more conspiratorial perspective, I also see that Bitcoin's design takes us directly to a world government (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=520882.msg5818903#msg5818903) digital fiat which is the 666 tracking system. Not that I necessary believe the Bible's Revelation, but I don't want to live in a world where we are slaves to a top-down control from Brussels.

---

Again I pointed out that this is not applicable to the masses.

Besides, by the time you can get the masses to adopt anything it will be owned by the government through regulation.

There is no way to get the masses to help you the millionaires. You are trapped. I am trying to help you, but you are obstinate (because you are not a polymath). And thus deserve your fate.


Since you are a Christian, I will explain from that perspective (I could also explain from an atheist perspective too).

Huh, your Bible in Proverbs says "borrower is slave to the lender".

Do you really think the masses can run up this huge debt which enabled them to abandon God and run abortions to 40 million a year, birth control to pervasive from age 15, and for women to no longer need men because they are supported by the state, and for there to be no enslavement?

I suggest you (re-)read carefully 1 Samuel 8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Samuel+8&version=CEV) then 1 Samuel 15.


Simpleton mistake. Complete failure to understand economics of fitness, c.f. this post:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg5837161#msg5837161


I am talking about what the masses will do.

If you want something only for us, then Bitcoin has the wrong design and can't protect our anonymity.

If you want to fight in the open, then you need the masses on your side. And the masses always go to the side of the banksters and the leaders of the power vacuum of democracy.

Again read 1 Samuel 8, so you can understand.

---

The time of BTC is upon us if we accept that the masses will use it if offchain regulated businesses provide fixes to all the useability problems with Bitcoin onchain (e.g. 10 - 60 minute transactions, private keys stolen, etc).

But then we give up decentralization and have a global fiat- the antithesis of the idealism purported to be the reason we are investing.

And if we are investing simply to get rich, note that if the regulators can track everything, this is no solution to the coming massive confisations 2016ish as we descend into the global economic conflagrapocalpyse.

Oh I know you don't care as long as you can make a speculative buck in the meantime, who cares if it is all going to be taken from you in a couple of years any way.

Hamster much.  ::)

P.S. I know there are other possible outcomes. The global debt could just disappear. You could hide your gold deep in the forests of Finland. And all other such illogical fantasies.

---

http://blog.mpettis.com/2014/03/will-emerging-markets-come-back/#comment-22366

there's a lot of negative vibes coming from BTC all of time ;D

I'm a bit frustrated to see it so quiet, since I like a certain amount of movement in the markets.
BTC is getting close to $550, maybe we can see a good bounce to ~$700?

"Be greedy when others are fearful." Warren Buffet

"Bitcoin is a mirage." Warren Buffet

Sounds fearful. His slip is showing. Very surprising for an old card player.

"mirage" is a close cousin to "miracle"

@AnonyMint

I think you seriously need a dam good holiday! I mean great observation, dialect and proposition but the "what if" factor is obviously consuming you.
Also being on this criminal site will drag anyone down!
I went through a stage of hopelessly thinking the world is doomed, made me depressed and think what's the point of it all,  I also thought about the solutions of survival.

BUT theirs not much you can do about it. All this things were put in place a very long time ago. Its really ends up coming down to being stronger and not letting these things get to you.
Don't join in on the hopelessness of it all, you need to clarify yourself, get back to nature or something, feel like a kid again, uknow what I mean? Be your old self again! Turn off that shit on the monitor!

I found anger a great release, yes I know your all laughing their haha, but the frustration of how incompetent people are becoming, well it just started pissing me off!
I just decided to make my own stand again and not be caught up in this evolution of anything goes and re-establish the principles that make me me.
Just because people are turning into lost souls, well screw that, I'd rather go down fighting for my principles than be a spineless jellyfish like most are now days.

You must breath and get off this channel of uncertainty and realize their are a lots of people thinking the same as you, but an observation you must leave it at. Be grateful you were born with insight.
The average Joe hasn't got a bloody idea about anything anymore, but man if you have half a brain, and its working :) its a walk in the park out their today!
But you must be confident and know where your coming from.

It can also take some time to feel that way when you've been fucked over too! But stay good and it will all work out. That's what I like about life!


Arrr come on man, Billie Ocean told us years ago remember.....
"When the going gets tough.......well you know the rest......


To my new band of trolls following, hi guys! please die painfully!

For those not familiar with advanced trolling tactics,
Anonymint is the same poster as Mattboldfield.

HASHBAG YOUR BACK!!!! SWEET!
How are the cointerras going?
Dude you just made yourself look like a real nob!
Am I surprised - hardly!

At first I thought it was the zombie apocalypse, but now it looks like there are ulterior motives at play.

As disillusioned as I may be, you are topping it.


Dude, I think I've been where you're coming from, but you need to get a grip on things. It's you! Those Joes around you... they are actually you, just in disguise...

change shit.. it's the only way.

oh for fucks sake, really?!?. If I'm falling for the trolls,... it's indeed a pleasure.

lol, that was "advanced " trolling tactics. Much better than "average" trolling tactics!
and you are right those AJ's are me!

Great, I can ignore self-obsessed identity #2. Goodbye troll personae mattboldfeld.

Occasionally I'm convinced this forum is made up of me and about five other people. There are more posers here than a New York nightclub.

Switch to Dogecoin community, these people are more friendly.

and the coin is much better, since it has a Dog on it ;)

Because they're all busy spamming other forums and thinking up new marketing schemes. ;-)

such huge letters... and yet you just bumped this thread yourself ;)

You both should stop bumping this thread. >:(

Why is bumping this thread bad? There are 40+ threads about the fucked up Gox incident that makes Bitcoiners look like retards to the rest of the world but that's ok. What we need to do is stop bumping a thread from a guy that says there's kind of a bad vibe on this forum. lol

Someone tried doing a bitcoin is awesome thread, but apparently that was too boring for everyone

I know, sad isn't it. I went from thread to thread complaining that we don't need another Gox thread but no one listens. This forum is made up of a bunch of gossiping bitches.

I don't think its toxic, it's just that the euphoria is settling down, which is a good thing in the long run.

I didnt read many threads regarding that but i have the same feeling. The bitcoin price is low and dont want to go up now. Then MtGox was a big hit. Several other big exchanges died too, people wait for their coins from many projects and so on. You cant invest in mining hardware or mining IPO's anymore because its a pretty sure way to lose bitcoins. And my bitcoin lawyer told me that many want to go out of bitcoin. Realising their profits. So yes... i feel a bad mood around bitcoin.

Though that doesnt mean that i think its over. Its only a real hard time it seems.

The MtGox issue happened because people keep their wallets online. It's heavily recommended to send the bitcoins from those sites to another account of your own, where you possess the private key.

You have to sum up that now most transactions are fee mandatory, minimum transfer is 5430 sathoshi, and there are dozen of websites whose operation is far from transparent (lot of sites don't display conversion fees publicly, other don't allow you to export your private key, and so on); and is quite troublesome to convert from bitcoin to conventional money, provided that if you want low fees it demands at least some days for bank transfer operation.

If you think mattboldfield is my sock puppet, you are losing your sanity. Just study our writing styles. Consult an expert in writing analysis.

mattboldfield, I must agree with you that it is important to have a life outside of this stuff, but I also agree with molecular that it is important to do something to fix the problem.

Here follows another cross-post:

---

Not exclusively. Offchain also includes centralized exchanges such as a Mt.Gox, instead of decentralized ones (which are in development and don't exist yet). Such offchain exchanges lead to fractional reserves, fraud, and thus government regulation and take over.

Eventually these offchains are banks. Then we are no longer using Bitcoin, rather government regulated fractional reserves called "Bitcoin". This is a very likely outcome, because dumb masses will never want to use decentralized exchanges.They prefer Coinbase and a bank to "secure" their coins.


Assuming no exchange is creating a massive amount of fractional reserves. Fractional reserves are possible when people are not transacting their coins, just buy and hold on the exchange such as Coinbase. But Coinbase is honest (?).

The more valuable Bitcoin becomes, the more incentive to create Bitcoins from thin air. You really don't think the banksters will just sit idle and watch you become $billionaires at their expense do you?

They've been doing this racket for 100s of years, and you expect them to just roll over and play dead?


I've studied this in technical (not to be confused with chart TA) detail. Zero transactions fees are possible in a properly designed altcoin but not in Bitcoin's design. There are crucial things that can never change in Bitcoin's design any more.

Offchain can improve other things such as the 10 - 60 minute transaction delay for Bitcoin. It is also possible to design an altcoin without such a significant delay so "nearly instant" online micropayments can remain decentralized and on chain.

There will be serious competitors to Bitcoin, but see below...


The solution to the capital gains problem is Bitcoin becomes fiat. This could happen eventually and investors could pile now in under that assumption.

I see the mainstream crypto-currency has to be the government sanctioned one. There is no other way around that. Might as well just accept it, and think about the implications for yourself as an investor, specifically the witchhunt against all wealth coming as the governments tax+confiscate into oblivion and the lack of anonymity in Bitcoin as compared to gold or some hypothetical altcoin (apparently not DarkCoin nor CoinJoin though).

Some have argued they don't care if society confiscates (taxes) 90% if their gains are 1000X. That is still 100X gains.

Then again if there is an anonymous coin that gives you 10,000X (because it is smaller and you are earlier to invest), and you don't face taxes nor confiscation, those investors are going to be 100X higher on the totem pole, e.g. $billionaires versus $10 millionaires. Think private jets instead of old manors.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-22/imfs-property-tax-hike-proposal-comes-true-uk-imposing-mansion-tax-soon-year


I see very clearly why you support the mainstream crypto-currency and normally that is the correct move (also you probably have no deep programming or technical skills so you couldn't change the situation if you were so inclined, you are reliant on the trend for your stored monetary capital, i.e. No Money Exists Without the Majority (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=226033.5)). I also see very clearly that every 80 years or so, the mainstream goes in chaos with confiscation and war.

So I see failure of the mainstream 2016ish. Why should I board the Titantic?

Should Google have never improved upon Yahoo? Should Facebook have not taken over from Friendster and Myspace? Can you be sure Bitcoin is an exception to the usual rule that the first one is almost never the winning one.

Groupthink
Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people, in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome.

group·think
ˈgro͞opˌTHiNGk/
noun
noun: groupthink; noun: group-think

    1.
    the practice of thinking or making decisions as a group in a way that discourages creativity or individual responsibility.

"But...but...but i changed my writing style...
i even went to the trouble of creating a fake
history... how did they figure out its me??? waaaaaah"
 
Your persistance in bashing bitcoin is impressive.

Why, just in the above post alone, you've hit the
bankster angle, the fees angle, the speed
of transactions angle, the government witchhunt
angle, the "bitcoin is the myspace of crypto"
angle, and the groupthink angle.
 
Good job!  You must be getting paid handsomely
to be doing 3400+ anti-bitcoin posts here.
 
Newsflash:  you're on the wrong side of reality.

Bitcoin has already won.  It's the most powerful
computer network in the world. 

Keep trolling, its quite amusing.

I have also been accused of being AnonyMint's evil sock puppet.
Boy he must sure be busy creating all these alts ::)


 

Hahaha. Watch me destroy it.

FUCK THIS SHIT!!

You seriously MUST be CRAZY to have anything to do with BITCOIN!! This is my observation after only three months!!

If you think this is the new frontier in currency, unfortunately you are DELIRIOUS!

My posts are now being moved, and I am called a troll for my negative, BUT HONEST experiences and posts made about the SCAM that is BITCOIN.

My technical issues were never solved, I had two payments never received, even though they were on the blockchain, they were never accounted for in the QT and no "EXPERTS" here have ever solved the problem.
Subjects and posts left are now being manicured, and I'll even go as far as saying it was GRUE who intercepted my P.M., logged onto my PC through Teamviewer, stole my Private keys and deleted the TeamViewer history.  

NOW I'm getting allegations of being pseudo and quasi!!

I cannot even find one soul to take what I am saying seriously and offer help.

BITCOIN - Just one giant Ponzi scam run by criminals!


I will taking my own advise given and will be returning with a vengeance!!

Both of your arguments are exactly the same on every point. You might as well be twin sock puppets.

Bitcoin the first attempt at Virtual Currency? No, not by far, so go do more research you ignorant curmudgeon.

You do have a valid point but Im sure the problem with receiving payments to your wallet are from you downloading malicious software/rootkits. Letting some stranger from the internet teamview into your machine is not the smartest idea ever. If you did any kind of research installing software from teamviewer or logmein opens you up to vulnerabilities that anyone on the internet can exploit.

I've been keeping up on bitcoin since 2010 even mined a few coins back then because I'm a geek and thought it would be cool just to say I have some. The bitcoin platform is not bad its the community and the way its used for bad is our problem. Not only newbs (dont take the word as an insult) but my self get the same scammer/unprofessional vibe but that is something we all can change and is something we for sure need to work on if we all as the early adopters of bitcoin expect to see this thing last.

CoinMode maybe you are the sock puppet of CoinCube, who they claim is my sock puppet (even we posted our photos to show it isn't true), so maybe you are my sock puppet. Sock puppets are known to create fake antagonists to create scenarios where they win arguments.


First one to be decentralized.

What do you think a cpu-only, botnet resistant coin can do to Bitcoin? Suddenly everyone who has heard of Bitcoin, can download and mine.

Bitcoin stands no marketing chance against that, it will spread by word of mouth "hey I got free money by turning on my computer".

Now for a dose of reality on those illogical $million price projections for Bitcoin...


Logistic S-curve adoption.

But the breadth of adoption depends on the utility of the technology.

Smart phones and toilet paper are technologies just about everyone needs (note I don't use the latter).

Unless Bitcoin will be morphed via offchain reserves to correct glaring weaknesses in its technological design, then it can not and will not appeal to most of the population.

If you are not factoring that into your FA analysis, then your FA is flawed.

First of all Bitcoin (as it currently stands unless morphed as I say above) will be limited to reasonably affluent, white males mostly under age 50. Thus figure the upper limit of adoption is several hundred million. Note NE Asians are white.

So we may already be at that adoption "chasm" you mentioned, or it will come on the next run up and peak in price.


Assuming the stock is rigid and hasn't morphed into an offchain reserves coin.


And so Bitcoin's value will not approach fiat for general commerce without being so morphed.

Given the above argument, you can see why a dip below $300 is psychologically important. We ain't going to da moon, so a lower entry price builds enthusiasm and bullish resolve.


P.S. White is a factor because browner people are too busy enjoying the outdoor and natural life. The white males are stuck inside with winter and find indoor male hobbies. Females in general aren't going to adopt anything that is not super easy, not threatening, available in pink, and lovingly accepted by their peers.

Add:

Andreas M. Antonopoulos claims in the developing world Bitcoin is approached by a different class. However if as it appears be he is referring to his experiences in South America, there is a huge influx of former European immigrants there.

You shouldn't be using a program like TeamViewer. There are botnets that actively scan the web for vulnerable systems running programs like TeamViewer or VNC and they will brute force access.

Bitcoin only seems environmentally toxic to some because they are mentally toxic to themselves.

If you are sitting all day reading the sometimes goofy comments in Bitcoin forums, are you really doing something with Bitcoin? Get out there and make Bitcoin work in a unique way.

Everybody can teach himself/herself programming. Everyone can see a need. Learn programming and fill the need. You just might become rich doing it... rather than sitting around and waiting for Bitcoin to become less toxic so that you can ride to fame and fortune on the coattails of the likes of Satoshi and the Bitcoin devs.

 >:(

I want to learn programming but I'm extremely lazy. I took a course a few years back in college and it was really boring so I couldn't get into it. But it is an increasingly-useful skill in today's world.

Understanding the world of bitcoin is, so far, extremely difficult for most people (see video). Explaining bitcoin on an individual basis is a much needed service right now, and you can help by coding the concepts of bitcoin into an understandable forum post. Many examples of this work populates this forum, and they are helping out a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd19SboRhVY


It's the trolls you should be complaining about.

Trolls don't use toilet paper.  Yep, sounds about right.

Blah blah blah properly designed altcoin...
Blah blah blah white males under 50
Blah blah blah it would be good if bitcoin hit $300
Blah blah blah transactions take 10 minutes
Blah blah I'm smart and I've analyzed things and I can use big words

What a cute little misinformation campaign you've got going!

Programming is difficult, but a very worthwhile challenge.
You can keep reaching way above your current skill level.

Programming is extremely tedious. It is boring unless you are extremely motivated and find the challenge interesting.

I wrote about 800 LOC yesterday (not including whitespace nor comments). This is considered to be quite high.

https://www.google.com.ph/search?q=average+LOC+per+day

I didn't think I could still do that. I used to be quite a prolific coder.

For me, coding is most fun when at the end of the day I have less lines of code than at the beginning of the day.

A lot of people don't understand that. 

Who remembers the vitriol that was hurled at culture sharing (piracy) in the dawn of the torrent era?

Same thing here. It's about authorities fearing their loss of control and profit, that's why so much negativity is being vomited in Bitcoin's general direction.

That is why I use Scala when I can. Much more concise, because I can express higher-kinded (http://adriaanm.github.com/files/higher.pdf) category theory polymorphisms (http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4824&cpage=1#comment-396600) (JustSaying is me). As far as I know, higher-kinded typing is only supported by Scala, Haskell, and ML (http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2010/05/types-la-chart.html). You may not realize that Haskell doesn't have subtyping, it is faked. ML is very powerful but very obtuse.

But when you are writing something new, then LOC production is a positive metric.

My knowledge is based on wide-range of real world experiences and having actually lived in the third world for nearly 2 decades.

I grew up in all black inner city slums in New Orleans and Baton Rouge, and my mother and stepfather were very liberal. And I grew up believing that women and men are equal.

Later on life taught me the truth the hard way.

A racist or misogynist is someone who discriminates illogically against race or gender. Rather I am forming rational conclusions by employing falsifiable tests. This is known as the scientific method.


Someone mentioned tersely "1 in 3 Kenyans use Bitcoin" in another thread 2 days ago, and two of us requested a citation and the poster did not reply, so I didn't google it. That was the first time I'd heard that claim. Your post incited me to dig:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/05/economist-explains-18


So now I see why it succeeded there but failed here in the Philippines. We have SmartMoney and Globe Cash here but it is not widely used. Filipinos prefer cash, even though they are SMS capital of the world and top 3 country in the world for using digital media. There are also vendors here every where for loading your cell phone prepaid balance.

But there isn't a big incentive to move away from cash. Cash works and when you need to send cash money, there are peso padala branches on every other block.

Whereas in Kenya the chaos meant they didn't have these well developed cash markets, so they needed something. And this monopoly by one phone carrier made it possible to get the economies-of-scale whereas we have 3 main phone carriers here.


But whoever says Kenyans are using Bitcoin is smoking dope:

http://www.bankinnovation.net/2014/02/mpesa-is-smoking-bitcoin-in-number-of-transactions/

In spite of the correction to the chart on that page, Bitcoin transactions are not a significant percentage of M-PESA transactions. That is global Bitcoin txs shown in comparison and besides upt 59% of BTC txs were SatoshiDice at some point in the past and many txs are mixers, etc.. Lets try to find some hard data on BTX txs in Kenya? Scientific method.

You fundamentally don't understand relative wealth. This is not a mistake I would expect rpietila to make:

http://www.cgap.org/blog/10-things-you-thought-you-knew-about-m-pesa



So again, I stand by my original statement. Only the white boys have a need for the illogical 10 minute transaction system called Bitcoin.

Still feeling smug white boy?

You should be banned for life. I still think you work for a bank.

Definetly a hazardous environment with all of the attention.  I would be happier if it was just quietly growing and not being eyed up by governments and banks.

Guys since people are dumping there bitcoins because of the tax law, ya better jump on the bitcoin wagon now, before the price zooms up in a few months.  I dont wanna hear, oh If I knew the price was going to go 1200 I would have bought 500 dollars worth of bitcoins.  boo hoo dont go crying.

I've been around in the bitcoin world since 2010. This feels a lot like when the price fell after the all time high of $35 back to $3. It might lose 90% again and go back to $100 but it will go back up. It always does.