Bitcoin Forum

The merit system was implemented by the forum mod in other to force and increase post quality by this forum users which is the reason why some campaign managers also included it as one of the major requirements when selecting campaign participants. But merit misuse is so many these days especially in the Wall Observer BTC/USD (Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg53913415#msg53913415) and some local thread where people would post absolutely nothing worth to be merited.

Note : I understand that I'm not the first person to complain about merit been abused. But
the question is, what are the forum mods doing about all this?

I think you have no idea about the WO culture. This is an unmoderated thread by forum officials. Yes we have info who take cares of unwanted posts and he is doing very well. Regarding merits in WO, once you will get to know with our culture then you will realize we are not just handing out merits for no reasons. There are reasons to send out merits and we understand humors very well.

Do visit us sometimes to know aobut us more, it's hard to explain.

By the way, I think this is a meta topic not for Bitcoin Discussions.

Absolutely nothing.  Because there's nothing that needs to be done.  Wall Observer is kind of like a force of nature that acts independently with its own whims and idiosyncrasies.  You either get involved or you stay out of its path.  In no conceivable way do you attempt to mess with it or alter its natural course.  Many have tried.  All have failed.  Just try to accept it for what it is.

Way too many posts are undermerited or overmerited, no matter if it's in WO or not. Some complain some not. Most have understood. You didn't. Not yet.
The human factor is huge in the merit distribution. And this puzzles the most. But it was designed to be like this. So chill. Not much else you can do anyway.

Keep your complaining to yourself. WHO do you think you are? Forum police? People can judge for themselves who's worthy of merit NOT you.

What we need is an elected administrator of merit who resides over an elected merit board of governors to come up with an overly-extensive set of rules for merit allocation.  Terms for the elected members should be no more than 2 months to keep us on our toes.  Penalties for violating the rules could range from merit count reductions to death by lethal injection for the grossest of merit abuse violations - especially in that cesspool of merit abusers who rarely emerge from their insidious breeding ground - the Wall Observer BTC/USD (Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg53913415#msg53913415) - those bastards!!

 I would like to take this opportunity to nominate Last of the V8s (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=479624) as our first ever administrator of merit as I believe him to be impartial and blessed with a pleasant, inoffensive sense of humour which can be enjoyed by forum members of all ages.


edit:  I have a good idea for the merit board motto

Jealous can make a faithful person 2 be unfaithful
~posi (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=859197)

OP if it makes you feel any better then we all going to die sooner or later.

"Jealously is quickest path to get Nirvana"  Gautama Buddha on weed

AFAIK that thread is where the real bitcoiners (to say the least, you may find fudsters there too) are lurking and it is the real thing in this forum. You're complaining that posts there aren't worthy to be merited but have you spent even an hour of your forum hours there and see what they've really got there? If not then you should do. Mind me you'll feel the hatters.

  There are a lot of real Bitcoiners in there... Hodlers and traders alike.  Also, hatters gonna hat!

Can you please show me how many merit abuse case you have made on this forum? Moderators do not have any business with merit system. So what you expect from moderators? If you have obvious merit abuse case like merit sells or merit trading then please open accusation on reputation board.

On the others hand, since merits is sometimes determine about user quality that's why managers asking for earning merit. I can't see anything wrong about it. Everyone should have try to make good & useful post. At least someone will try to make good post due to managers requirements.

If you had lurked long enough in WO before complaining, you would have realised many things. One of those is that we are not interested in "meta drama", so please leave us out of it. If, OTOH, you are really interested in discussing many Bitcoin related (plus some loosely related) things you are welcome to join us and maybe, just maybe, you will also earn some of those merits that seem to be as much important for you.

You should also know, if you don't already and maybe that's the reason you don't post there, that campaign signatures are not displayed in WO so posts there don't count for pay. That would give you an idea that most regulars of WO are not here for the merit, the campaigns, the bounties or anything besides casually sharing/discussing about Bitcoin and other topics that might be of some (even if loose) relevance for other Bitcoiners.

If that sounds good to you, you are welcome to join whenever you want and try to earn as much merit as you are able. If it's not your thing... well... the forum is HUGE and diverse, find sections where you are comfortable and somehow fit in, keep contributing according to its specific rules, culture and your own style and the merit will come. Or not. Who cares?

One person's garbage is another person's treasure. If the WO regulars want to merit pictures of big green dildos and scantily clad women, that's their prerogative. The only time the administration got involved is when a merit source staged a merit giveaway. The only requirement was to be one of the first few people to post anything in the WO thread. That merit source had his privilege taken away.

Maybe it should also be noted that he was sending it in huge lots of 25/50 (IIRC) merits for each single post. And, AFAIK, even that was not considered abuse (there were clearly no ill intention or collusion), but Theymos just decided that it was not appropriate usage of the sourced merits.

You should understand one thing,not every good post is going to be merited yes this is unfair but that is the reality of our world as well not everyone have same kind of life.So just do what you are doing and let the merits come at you.

If campaign managers are selecting participants based on merits alone then this is wrong and not much-reputed bitcoin signature campaign managers were doing this.

Nothing.  Awarding merit is not moderated, the mods don't have time or the inclination to deal with that as a headache.  Also, awarding merit is subjective, every one who has received merit can give away their sMerit anyway they wish, within reason.  I'm not a merit source, but I can only assume the same holds true for them.  No body is looking over the merit source's shoulder to make sure they are giving merit to the "right posts."

Then there's this:

Yes, it really wasn't abuse. He just wanted to distribute a whole bunch of source merits in a hurry and get them off his plate. I can definitely understand. I myself took a break for a few months from the forum. I came back to discover that my source merit allowance was increased. I compensated by increasing the amount of merits that I gave out per post. However, it appears that the number that I was using was too big, because I've been out of source merit for quite a few days and am now fresh out of smerit, too. No worries, though. The source merit should start to be replenished in a couple of days. I'm definitely not going to beg theymos to increase my allotment.  :)

WO thread is the tip of the iceberg. Merit is the most dangerous and damaging thing ever introduced to this forum. 
It's design, as a member previously mentioned is  very similar to fiat that powers the central banking system.
Source, by trading or cycling merits with other sources and their close allies who vote each other on to Default Trust, control the eligibility of members to generate revenue here and therefore control their free speech.
There could be tweaks to mitigate the negative impact of merit. Those have been ignored and further destructive power given to the merit metric over time.

The results are as you would expect. Merit sources and mates stacked with merit, entrenched  in default trust wearing the highest paying signatures. Other members kissing up supporting their every word not daring to step out of line dreaming of their chip mixer day in the sun. On route to one large echo chamber

Don't expect any support for moving towards a useful fair and sensible distribution of merits in meta. This is the nest of the vipers. Their power and advantage would dissipate almost immediately if the playing field was made level.

WO sees a crazy amount of merits cycled for memes and garbage. One could go there and play human centipede between Bob and bones261.  You first mate. I'll enjoy my red tags and no merits if you won't mind.

If it doesn't belong to the main board why merits are allowed there then?

The thread is so long that you can't retrieve any old post there, so it's fully irrelevant to merit any post overthere...
except if you just want to exchange merits between friends...

Every merit score is a collective vote open to anyone.

I do not believe the probable majority of merit earned in the WO thread would have a hope in hell of being merited elsewhere but it's everyone's personal choice where that merit is sent.

The most egregious examples of merit piss taking between clearly worthless posts or accounts are usually picked up on and singled out rapidly so I think it's doing the job it was intended to do with the odd weird outlier.

And why are you not moaning about threads about merit stats? That's the true bottomless pit for the throwing around of merit.

Hey look bud, I've distributed my merits in a whole lot more places than the WO board. Stop busting my chops. I never asked to become a merit source. It was granted to me. All this fucking volunteer work that I have done for this forum and I have to sit here and read vitriol from the likes of you. Since you mentioned that you enjoy your red tags, I won't be giving you any.  :-* I'd consider giving you a shitload of merit just to spite you. However, I am fresh out. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, you can just go fuck off.

You're an honest gentleman. God bless you.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=topreplies

I think i am


Yes, have spent a lot of time there and sometimes their conversation on there is off-topic and ever someone who's not in their circle there make a right post he's somehow ignored.


Noted

What actually brings out this subject was a user of this forum that applied for a campaign and expected to be selected due to the amount of merit he earned. I went through his posts, all i can see for almost more than a week duration post was one-liners messages.


Understood. This is not complain about amount but the purpose of the merit scheme and if we will look at it carefully the merit system which was actually created to improve quality posts have failed.

Disagree. It might often go to the wrong places in the opinions of some but I can tell when someone has a healthy merit count without looking at the score just by the way they write, and the same goes for people who've earned none. The rewards are going to the people who should get them.

It might not improve the quality of the hopeless. There's now enough merited posters for them to read and learn what does attract it.

I've looked at your posts and you're talking about this guy as I understand : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=244243
Well you're right, he seems to only post one liners however he has earned as much as 150+ merits during the last 120days... :o
... for one liners  :D

Of course 99% come from the Wall Observing thread  ::)

For example he had received 2 merits for this post :
3 for this one
1 for this one
Another one for this one
2 for this
4 merits for

etc etc


How do you explain the case above then?

No one's forgotten how fucking hilarious the Gl0bbster is, but thanks for the reminder.
Perhaps when you little twats grow up you'll be able to follow along.

Very hilarious for sure...  ::)
but what's more hilarious here, is your explanation  :D

I don't get it, I really don't. There are so many people here in the forum complaining about the Merit system every day. Instead of wasting so much time complaining and crying about the "unfair" rules, these people should better spend their time writing meaningful, informative posts and contribute something helpful to the forum. There is absolutely no point in wasting your time creating those "The Merit-System is so unfair, blablabla" threads , you won't change the rules anyway. Better do something useful with your time.

@OP: Why don't you start to check the Wall Observer BTC/USD (Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg53913415#msg53913415) on a regular basis and try to post something there? I am pretty sure you will understand the dynamic of the thread sooner or later and your posts will get merited if they are good.

Signatures do not appear in the wall, so many campaign managers ignore “no-payment” for posts in that section, and most of the Merits that go to that section are people who like publishing (not forced paid posts.)

Secondly: I think that users are free to how them sMerits are distributed "especially those that they acquired" @theymos was not strict in exchanging Merits between alternative accounts, so unless there is any abuse from a Merit source, your grievance will not be valuable.

 That's what I'm talkin' about!
Last of the V8s for mayor!!

BS, in the other sections where signatures are hidden (like Serious Discussion, Ivory Tower, etc) shitposts are not merited like that.
Over the forum many users don't wear signatures or paid signatures and fortunately, they don't receive merits just because they post for free, moreover many sections are excluded from campaigns and we don't see those merit abuses there.

Wrong. Shitpost is prohibited by the rules, but you reward it in your Wall observing thread.

I think MODs probably already expected something like this would happen(or maybe not) and they probably can't do much about it. but the fact that the post quality increased after implementing the merit system because you need merit in order to rank up suggests that the purpose of the merit system succeeded. and I think some post being over merited is acceptable than thousands of shitty poster ranking up without any effort(just like before the merit system was implemented).

Didn't theymos say himself that if someone has a problem with merit distribution they can go to him directly. Everyone who complains about the distribution of merits in the WO thread just share your concerns with the forum admin. This thread is going nowhere and it is not going to change anything and why would it!?!

You are free to merit anyone and anything you like as long as it doesn't involve trading, selling, coordinating merit distribution. Let the WO folks do what they want, it's not anyone's business.       

OP: No merit for you! No merit for your family, no merit for your cow!

OP please forgive me, but I need to make a picture.

Smile!
https://i.imgur.com/FmyaRcI.png

---

Feel free to merit abuse me, I don't mind. ;D

This thread doesn't need to have half a dozen merit sources almost fully dedicated to it, that's not obvious for you?

So what is your solution? You want to take source merits away from them? Why? Less source merits = less received merits = less sMerits in circulation = less chance of lower rank accounts getting merited. It's basic merit-nomics.

If you really feel strongly about it, I guess you'll have to PM theymos, since nobody can change the system except for him -- nor does anybody else want to.

These kinds of people don't have any solutions. They just like to complain, and hope that someone not them gets tired of their whining and does something. Which is why their cows get no merits.

Calling all of you out. Explain why this is a big enough problem to bother anyone who can actually do a thing, and propose something better. Betcha not one of you can do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCzmOknrN70

It sounds like you still don't "get" WO.  It's the closest thing the forums have to an informal chatroom, so it's not held to the same standards as the rest of the board.  Everything that needed doing was done ~3 years ago.  If you want the full history lesson, these topics, in this order, should be all the reading material you need in order to understand:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1990962.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1993570.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2004227.0

Alternatively, if that's too much to sift through, the short version is that, rather than discouraging users from making off topic posts in WO, users are now discouraged from reporting off topic posts in WO because the moderators don't want to deal with the additional workload it was generating.  Ergo, off topic posts (within reason) are permitted in WO.

As for your gripes about merit for "shitposts", the simple fact is that merit awarding is subjective and you don't get to determine other users' criteria for handing them out.  If they find these posts entertaining, they are free to merit them.

Since they (merits) are currently undeniably subjective, gamed and meaningless crap, That also undeniably cause all of the other insoluble problems nobody has refuted time and time again when discussed.

Then the solution to the problem is removed the trashy merit system or reduce its purpose to what its design is useful for only: stop  bots ranking up. This worthless metric has no business being conflated  with trust or post quality. Campaign managers must have transparent objective standards to measure candidate against them.

There have been many good improvements suggested to both the merit and trust designs, of course those abusing the current flawed design for their own selfish gain (most of meta) are going to fight any changes.

Doomed clearly acknowledges there is zero objective or reliable credible value to this garbage and yet Theymos thinks you can built the entire forum on it ? Imagine a tiny tiny subset only gives most of it out and they themselves receive the most, they themselfs can vote each other on DT and they can have all best sigs and revenue positions. Hey the " community" of meta where all merit source, dt, and best signs say its brilliant. Wow why they take this view? So weird?

For Bones261 whilst you are openly supporting scammers I will consider you very open to my legitimate criticism. One should expect to be criticized for supporting scammers.

This place generally runs as the community wills it to.  The very fact that you have to resort to posting from an alt-account to make it look as though there's more dissent than there really is speaks volumes.

Speculation, conflating community with a handful of scammer supporting dirt bags  
Good post.
Try to make some points that pose some challenges one time please.
Try to debunk the current insoluble problems.
Try to debunk the proposed improvements
Should I bring them?
WO is just another example. Not a special case. Like you say : shitpost is fine it subjective and not moderated.
You seem very afraid of transparent objective standards and people be treated equally? Why?

Don’t feed the troll bones, he’s just looking for a reaction. Everybody knows you’re a highly trusted, respected member of the community.

Losers like that need to get a life. Seriously it’s not worth the time it takes you to respond.

You are probably right. I deleted my newest response. However, when a particular troll's user name is somewhat similar to mine, it's hard not to take notice. My last name isn't Jones, though. :D

Thank you for the support.  I will try to stop feeding them LFC Bitcoin.

Please stay on topic. The " everybody  knows" defense is about your limit.

LFC Bitcoin and Micgoosens are probably 2 of the biggest shitposters on this forum and WO thread, I wonder if LFC bitcoin holds the record of 1 or 2 lines speculative guessing and memes. Have a look.  Thousands of them. You would only need view a picture of micgoosens that he splatters all over WO to form a very accurate opinion of his capability  to create a post of value.

LFC Bitcoin does produce reasonably valuable PMs.

WO I think means Women Only. There is a distinctly bitchy vibe when " outsiders" question the true value of that mess.
Waste of board resources. I was going to suggest deleting merits there but just delete the thread. When you see members with huge arrows tattooed down their arms with notice saying  "place beer here " pointing to grubby scribbled on hands giving to da moon bitcoin predictions the damage is done.

@Ibian - you need read more of meta. Many great improvements  have been suggested.
Better to comment once you have researched.

@bones261 stop crying troll without presenting the evidence of trolling.  That's like me calling you a rapist and not bringing evidence.  Present the evidence or refrain from making unsubstantiated  accusations wolfy.

Accept WO thread is a concentrated shitposting dump where lots of merit is cycled around for mass stupidity.
Stop deflecting.

I would argue that willingly or not, many of the most high-ranking members here subvert themselves to rules and preferences of the administration, other than actively taking part to forming new rules.

Theymos in my very own opinion has a very good sense of what's needed for the forum and does very well in implementing new features and rules. But sometimes it feels like a blind eye is turned to serious complaints that a minority of users care about. And some other times, the opinion of Theymos is regarded too highly even if it's not mandatory to do so. Take his new thoughts on trust ratings for instance. Many users have been quoting this post as if there's authority on trust ratings, even though they were never meant to be regulated.

Anyway, just my two cents. I think the community here is good at following rules, not making them. Features like merit fit the forum well but they were not made BY the community. Rather FOR it.

But it's a feature that was made in response to users requesting that something be done about spammers.  Users outlined the problem and requested that a change be made.  The administration acknowledged that and acted upon it.  For the most part, users support the improvements merit has brought.  There's just a small but vocal minority of antagonists (or perhaps even just one, lately) who would benefit from undoing such a positive change, and hopefully they will continue to be ignored, no matter how many sock-puppet accounts they create.

You are likely incorrect about that.  Most credible WO posters refer to women in the WO thread as "gal" or some other similar singular referent, which causes me to believe that there might only be one woman participant therein.  Who woulda thunk?   ;)

Notice how this doomed refuses to meet a challenge to debate  " such a positive" when clearly it is hugely negative.  Since this positive has been clearly debunked many times. It is such a negative.

Also very scared to debate the improvements that have been suggested many times.

Notice chipmixer, DT and probably merit source. Very positive for him.
Very negative for the entire forum.

This one run away from any challenge to confirm his words. Same for most member in meta. They like "subjectivity" this they can abuse for themselves. As we see merit sources and their mates all get the most merits (from each other ) all believe each other are the most trustworthy and all have all the best sigs.


His saying shitposts on WO getting a ton of merit because it's all subjective and unmoderated. Suchmoons telling merit score is meaningless. Is not really good value for crushing free speech and assisting very cunning and high level scammers impervious to warnings and punishment. With the other host of insoluble problems.
So many negatives could be mitigated with some tweaks.

These people want it as unfair and subjective as possible. It is working nicely for them.
They run from debating improvements. scumbags.

WO thread is just a more obvious abuse but the entire design is abuse because it relies on members acting selflessly :)

You could argue that it was created to address coplaints, but it only addressed spam to rank up accounts. It was also long overdue. Outright spam was not addressed for a long time after that too. See how bloated the 'report plagiarism (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1926895.0)' thread became for instance.

It has not been "debunked" on even one occasion.  A lone crackpot with schizophrenia has repeatedly expressed an opinion on the matter, but is too much of a chickenshit to do it from their main account.  No one seems to acknowledge their continued butthurt.



Swing and a miss.  Thanks for playing, though.

Care for a debate just me and you? Or run away?

Yes or No?

I will create the thread?

You should get professional help for your obsessions. Not only you are wasting the time of many others... which it seems it is the lesser of your problems, but you are also wasting your life and whatever mental health you still have left with this trivial and pointless quixotic crusade.

And you all guys are doing him no favour feeding his mental issues each and every time. This must come to a stop. It's not fun anymore. I'm done here.

Throw this dog a merit morsel
WO thread for you please. How did you escape?
Did you not see my challenge ?
Keep dreaming of chip mixer puppy.
The dunces caps you guys have are cute.
Remove the bitcoin begging bowl from your sig son.
I will take a laugh at your WO merit abuse later.

I'm definitely not that type and if you know me as a person you'll understand how mature i was. Just created this thread in other to speak my mind after i saw someone claiming what he's not eligible for and i don't think that's offense though.

I have to lock this thread because the conversation is already causing drama among people.