Bitcoin Forum

First the dominant narrative was that Bitcoin brings a financial revolution and soon the whole world will abandon fiat and use it instead. Then, the problems with scaling started to arise the narrative shifted to store of value and digital gold. Now Bitcoin had its first test as those things and it failed it miserably with 50% crash.

So, how will we justify its value in the future? Cross-border payments? Go back to its roots - immutability and personal freedom? Or maybe Lightning Network will bring back the hopes of a widely adopted currency?

What do you think the people will be saying in the near future and what you personally believe in?

As I mentioned it a few times, nothing is going to be changed till we can't take it as 1 BTC = 1 BTC, we everyone take it as investment, including me. I doubt we have a single person here who is here to accomplish the goal of BTC as a currency. So, how can it be?

I think you guys are overreacting about this
All markets crashed this week, look at stocks, oil, countries are suffering

There's nothing wrong with BTC and the fundamentals, a week ago everyone was happy and BTC will be first coin in the world bla bla bla, and now a lot of people are worried?

It's simple, some people sold their coins to create this panic, and weak hands sold and keep selling at this price, so there's people doing money and being prepared for the next months, I don't have any doubt about this
Another thing to consider, all the world are suffering and maybe worried about having food, medical care etc, so some people sold to be prepared for eventual crisis

I don't think Bitcoin was meant to be a revolution against fiat, nor was it supposed to replace it. BTC was designed to eliminate third parties and I am more than sure Satoshi did not create it with the idea of fiat replacement in his mind. It was meant to be just a revolutionary asset you can transfer with mandatory transparency and with no need of trust.

Part of those who have invested months ago and have now lost a significant part of their money are not going to believe in BTC again and will turn into Peter Schiff-like investors throwing only negative opinions and news off the cliff. The other part of investors is those like me, who believe this is not the end of BTC and is just a normal market move in the crypto markets. I am in no way affected as soon as I don't sell.

Bitcoin is safe imho. There's always going to be a mass of investors and they'll split into two during market cycles: those who turn into strong believers and those who turn into non-believers and FUD spreaders.

The problem is BTC has seen some insane price over the past several days however despite the bearish mode BTC will solidly bounce back after somedays, the market price now looks completely bloodbath and the entire crypto forum are worried about this situation. I think the big impact might be the deadliest virus where the maximum number of countries are literally scared of this disease, guys let's believe the price will go.

Let's not forget that; Bitcoin is immutable and a store of value, this doesn't make it withstand the pressure of sell or panic sell as we have seen few days ago which actually resulted to the major crash of Bitcoin. The Bitcoin community has one of the  very weapon or weapons to fight this drastically drop, they should not be force to sell, holding Bitcoin will make Bitcoin  stand in times like this and not forcefully selling because of sell pressure, we'll should be holders and not panic sellers.

This week has been a brutal week, I fear about what will happen in my country because my currency has lose value against the USD because we heavily depend on crude oil for our economy and now crude oil has crashed, we are going to have a budget deficit, meaning my government must borrow to finance the budget otherwise there will be a major crisis, this is not just bitcoin alone, the panic in the world caused all these, humanities are scared.

It is still a sign that the space is young, now we have some other things to add to our list on bitcoin price reaction and prediction. we have seen few financial seasons that could determine the price movement of the coin and this is new, pandemic disease can give different reaction of traders. It is a yardstick to explain how to prepare for any financial crisis in world but this does not change the fact that wealth just change hands with fiat holders.

Bitcoin is already considered as a coin for freedom and cross border payments. People are using it to save their wealth securely away from prying eyes.
As of the decrease in price, bitcoin has been very volatile in almost of its history and current time is not one of the best ones as we can see almost every markets are decreasing.
Gold decreased 30% a day. That doesn't mean gold has failed.

Bitcoin's identity as a crytpocurrency is already sealed. A safe haven perhaps wouldn't be too fitting as its title due to its susceptibility to rapid changes in prices but at the least, it can still retain value no matter what.

We have had similar bad beats in the past but bitcoin recovered as if nothing happened. It will still continue being a currency that transcends borders and can be used by people regardless of their country of origin. While there might be added hindrances and processes such as KYC before getting some coins, P2P still exists, and always has for bitcoin. Forget about bitcoin being the digital gold in its time; as long as it works as intended, everything shuld be fine.

Bitcoin having an identity crisis? More like some people can't figure out what narrative they will use next to fuel their own narrative.

Bitcoin is still the same thing it's been since 2009, if someone doesn't what that is then they need tor read some more. Those who think that btc is having an "identity crisis" are those who don't know what premise they should stick to in times of crisis.

How many times we will see a post like this. It's not that this is the first time we have seen this much ups and downs for Bitcoin.

We had $19k and then $3.2k, what did we tell others about it?
What did we say when it went $14k from $3.2k?
What did we say when it went down $7k ish from $14k?
What did we say when it was @ $11k from $7k?

Absolutely!

I've usually regarded it as a speculative instrument. It has the potential to be much, much more but that takes time, education and circumstance. Sometimes it fulfils the other things people are projecting onto it, other times it shits all over it.

It's still outrageously young compared to anything else out there. There'll be many stages before the world has decided what it wants it to be.

From looking at all the comments out there it should be pretty clear what most current owners REALLY think. More than anything they want more dollars.

That is exactly what the OP is trying to say, that a lot of people though bitcoin is not affected by a market crash, that bitcoin will grow if something bad happens to the market and it didn't. It acted just like stocks!!!
And at the moment I'm posting, guess what S&P 500  is up by 9,29 %!!!


Yes, we had bad moments, we had dropped a lot of times but those were mainly overpriced bubbles popping and bad events related to bitcoin itself.
This time it was something from the outside that make it crash!!

Remember how everyone was telling that bitcoin is a safe haven for Venezuelans? That is helping Iranians? That people in turkey are buying BTC to hedge their crashing economy? Seriously, how many topics do you think I can find on how an economic disaster will be good for bitcoin?
And yes, bitcoin failed to do its supposed job in these times, but that's because people were expecting something that wasn't there, the network is still working, the coins are still there, transfers are going on, the coin works still flawlessly, the problem is with the users, it's them who have lost the thing that gives value to BTC , confidence. Without it, the price goes down even if nothing fundamental has changed, and it's not the coin fault.

We will simply have to deal with it, in times of panic, a lot of the so-called "investors" will act just like they dow with stocks, drop and run to the hills like headless chickens, while we stay there and wonder, why the hell are they doing this?!?

Those are the words I was trying to find.  Thank you. 

Bitcoin's "identity" is that it's going to find another block in the next few minutes.  That's all it knows or cares about.   

Yeah, bitcoin was made to be used as a regular currency that can be used to make payment for our day to day transactions. Unfortunately, it wasn't suitable (you don't want to be waiting for more than 10 minutes for confirmation of your transaction just to buy a cup of morning coffee) to be used as a regular currency replacing fiat. Thus, people realized that it can be used as a store of value, which will reward user greatly in the long run but with more risks in short term investment.
Bitcoin might have identity crisis, but do keep this in mind it is the currency that gave birth to other altcoins and the idea of blockchain.

OP you're only repeating the FUD from some Internet trolls. I also saw those comments that "bitcoin was promoted as currency and then the narrative shifter do digital gold" You're repeating words of some other clueless frustrated wannabe investors who thought they'll buy Bitcoin at 10 thousand, go to bed and wake up millionaires.

Bitcoin never failed as a payment solution! It's used like that many stores in Japan and Korea. The adoption is very slow and that's why you think it's not happening. Travel a little and look for stores that accept it. You'll be surprised by the number of them.
2 years ago there were almost no businesses accepting it on the map and now you can find ATMs in most big cities and places to spend your coins.

It also works as digital gold. The problem is that gold is tanking along with everything else.

I think it's time everyone gets straight on what they want to use bitcoin for. If they want to use it as a store of value, that's fine with them. There's nothing wrong with doing that, it just guards you from political events in individual countries, but not global events like things that are happening now.

If however they want to use it as a payment solution then that's also OK, we just need to fix a proper price in BTC for one commodity such as soft drinks and furniture, there's no way merchants can continue adjusting the BTC price of their items according to the exchange rate. Nobody changes the cost of things priced in euros of Japanese yen because the exchange rates of those against the dollar changed.

But I admit it's easier for foreign currencies to get away with this because they are only used locally, not globally. Bitcoin, trying to be accepted globally, has more price-conscious people in different countries using it, any political activity in one of them affects the bitcoin price because it's listed on exchanges.

In other words, if you're going to lease a jeep for 0.03 btc/month, then do it and ignore movements of the exchange rate. If you're going to buy a Mercedes roadster at 9 BTC then keep it at that rate. It may be more expensive than buying it in other currencies, but it at least gives bitcoin merchants a chance to get more customers (the ones who are wary of buying something at 2x the price it will be tomorrow, like what just happened today).

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While we're on the subject of identity crisis, bitcoin was clearly not intended to be used solely at exchanges, casinos, darknet websites, Ponzi schemes and P2P trading at bitcointalk. And yet that's where the majority of the activity is happening. See these listed cars?

https://i.imgur.com/RR4rjVE.png

It would be nice if they had starting price was in BTC as well as dollar. And I think that's where we're stuck. No business wants a starting price in two different currencies, that would interfere with its listed value (MSRP). They don't want two different listed values. All but one of the currencies must move aside.

From my personal observations, I don't really agree with you on the fact that you think Bitcoin has an identity crisis.  The market value bitcoin has always been ups and downs. It is true that the true purpose of Bitcoin has shifted from being an option of being a digital fiat to becoming a digital gold which people will rather store than using it as a payment option. The basic challenge of  bitcoin has always been the lack of knowledge and  understanding of majority of people in the crypto space on what bitcoin is and its purpose in the financial ecosystem.  Once people don't know and understand Bitcoin, bitcoin can't be adopted as a currency.

Well, I'm not debating what Bitcoin is objectively, I want to know how people view it and will view it.


By "identity" I mean how the community views it.


It's not about just ups and downs, because this time it was a test for Bitcoin as a hedge. I think everyone remember how people were constantly viewing any negative economic news as bullish for Bitcoin, how people were waiting for a recession to come - well here it is.

Maybe it boils down to the shortfalls of conventional wisdom.  It was a widely held belief that bad news for the traditional economy would generally equal good news for crypto, but this was only tested on occasion with some minor economic blips.  In practice, when something major happens, it's seemingly not always the case.

Perhaps in all the while that some people have been clamouring for more institutional investors to get on board, this is the knock-on effect?  Maybe crypto will follow traditional markets more closely if there's a larger proportion of speculators involved?  It's kind of difficult to pin down exactly why the theory didn't hold up.

I think that's one of the prime reasons. Ownership has gone from manifesto-toting whack jobs to city slickers. As the demographic of ownership advances into traditional groups traditional reactions to things elsewhere will increase.

Anyone who expected it to do well in a full on recession is a bit of a weirdo if you ask me. There might be potential during brief blips or shocks in normal markets that expose their frilliness, this sure as shit isn't that right now.

I'm really curious on what did Satoshi think when planning to create the bitcoin coz it is called cryptocurrency, the word currency is in it so it might be a revolutionary currency as fiat counterpart. But let it be it, bitcoin is supposed to use in online world and not even an investment, many people just made it an investment because of the volatility rate that it contain.

This is where bitcoin identity crisis come to place, in times like this people don't know how the bitcoin would behave as part of decentralization and so on how they would handle it, if whether they would spend it or make it as their safe haven, they really don't know. We have seen bitcoin for so long dominating the market, we even saw the lowest price of it, this is not the time for us to lose confidence in it.

The crash is huge, I agree. The situation is extraordinary, though. I don't think that what's happening is discrediting Bitcoin. S&P is also experiencing huge losses, and let's see how fiat will be holding up (my local fiat lost nearly 7% of the price within days). I think Bitcoin is still not a bad store of value (although we gotta be ready that sometimes major setbacks like the one we're in right now) can happen, and I hope a solution will be found to make it possible for Bitcoin to function as money as well. I realize there are big challenges with that right now, but I do think that it's possible to overcome them.

I am still trying to figure out the reason of the fall. In the past, many times we had price gone up and then significant down without any reason and this one was the same or you are saying that ponzi scheme that wanted to dump his 180,000 bitcoins and as a result we had this price crash?

Whatever the price is, 1 Bitcoin = 1 Bitcoin always. That's what we think as a bitcoins believer.

This time there were multiple causes. For starters, Bitcoin was on decline for some time already as it failed to break past the $10,000 barrier. This already made Bitcoin's price fragile. Then the stocks crashed and for some reason they took Bitcoin with them (and not only Bitcoin but also gold). There are also reports that the whales were sending coins to exchanges days before the crash, so there might also be a coordinate manipulation. And that chinese ponzi scheme probably contributed too.

And how about the world economy for this corona virus disaster?
Look I am not much into technical analysis, current affairs and stuffs. I am a long term holder and for sure I know that holding my bitcoins is the wise thing I can do. When I get change then I buy to have more in my bag and this is how I am doing with bitcoins.

Bitcoin doesn't have an identity and this is not a crisis for bitcoin solely.

The whole world's economy has been experiencing losses because of coronavirus epidemic. Don't try to make Bitcoin look bad because of that

It was really a big test for Bitcoin and the rest of crypto specially during this Covid-19 pandemic. But to be fair, all global markets are also affected, which means that perhaps Bitcoin is not isolated after-all as every market be stocks, oil are somewhat correlated to one another. So everyone failed as well.


But still the narrative won't change in the future, payment scheme, store of value (even after it's failure),  Bitcoin will be bitcoin.


Haters will be haters I guess, they won't change anything, in fact with the recent 50% dump, those nocoiners are going to justify their attacks on Bitcoin, just like what we have seen in the last couple of days. I won't mentioned names but I guess majority here have seen threads after threads from some entity that will attack or will continue to attack Bitcoin no matter what cycle we are.

I think it is perfectly normal for Bitcoin to drop. We have seen depreciation in the past but the value of Bitcoin is still very clear, Bitcoin value is always there so keep calm and wait  ;D .

Now you gave me something to think about.
Almost like a headache.  :D

Well, as of me I am also having the same problem of where to put bitcoin at.
First, this forum will make it more twisted because of different opinion.

But, I do think it is in the middle of commodity and currency.
A store of value but yet can be used as a currency. More likeness of gold way back where they use it to pay and also stores it in case of need.

The whole world won't abandon fiat because the governments and central banks won't abandon fiat.
The scaling issues are in the past.The Bitcoin Core blockchain improved since 2017 after Segwit has been implemented.We have Lightning Network and other off-chain solutions and the overall confirmation time is better.
Stock markets failed miserably too,do you think that the Bitcoin price is strong enough to stay stable in a situation of global panic?

Actually that's the point in which let's wait until the bitcoin will be equally to 1 bitcoin which is 1:1 the ratio, until this is not happening then probably there will be no changes will occur.
Until now we don't have any single person who really accomplish their wants to happen on the bitcoin or other cryptocurrency because until now there are so many government and country that is not approved with the cryptocurrency as the main currency of their country.

People might have their perspectives change a little bit about bitcoin now. Most of the people think that it is a store of value, a safe haven, and something where their funds become safe in times like this when a virus is making almost all of the investment platform go down.

Well, IMO, bitcoin remains the same as long as we see the true value of it without comparing its market price to dollar or any currency. Other people wonder why donation in this forum to become a VIP remains 50BTC, that is because of the value of BTC is not changing over time, but its market price when compared to other currencies.

If we could understand this, our perspective about losing our fund when the market price is low could be change.

Bitcoin is a victim of it’s own success. In the beginning there were lots of smart people making incredible innovations. Then the price began to skyrocket and the scammers moved in, killing legitimate investment opportunities and chasing the innovators from the community. This led to the HODL movement, where Bitcoiners were expected to ride the tidal wave of initial innovations to higher prices. This lasted a while, long enough for Wall Street to get involved with the narrative that low supply could easily be manipulated to higher prices. This is where we are now. Bitcoin is valuable now not because it’s continuing to innovate new use cases, but because enough people have been inundated with tales of riches and don’t want to miss out. When people talk about Bitcoin now, they aren’t excited about being able to transfer money to friends and family without high fees or third parties. They talk only of how much money they’ll make by selling later. This is called the Greater Fool Theory and I hope that someone is able to reverse this identity with a truly innovative use case. The world desperately needs what Bitcoin could have been. My wish is that we get it back someday.

Bitcoin is still very useful in the future, that's what I believe, what you've mentioned that bitcoin will be the best option when there is a crisis would only happen when there is already a massive adoption, as of now, bitcoin has not gained massive adoption yet, it would happen slowly but surely but with manipulation we can't expect people would easily use bitcoin.

and of course, it's still too early to conclude, if this gets worst, maybe people especially those who are potential investors will find bitcoin a good alternative.

Those are just projections and marketing narratives. We need to drop the expectations and just let Bitcoin be. People will either treat it as money -- currency, store of value, unit of account -- or they won't. In time, I believe they will.

Even if we're going to place those expectations on Bitcoin, it would never happen in 10 or 11 years. Establishing a new asset class worthy of replacing gold or fiat money won't happen overnight. People are understandably skeptical, and Bitcoin still has a lot of technological and UI concerns to overcome. This will take decades to play out.

Seconded.  I made this post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2852931.msg29337070#msg29337070) two years ago and it still seems to hold true.  There's far greater potential still to be unlocked and we just need to give it time.  Anyone writing off bitcoin now is just impatient.

Yeah, that's exactly the point he is trying to make and I don't know what is so hard to understand..

I've mentioned them early, remember those?

Remember the Cyprus crisis? Everyone was talking about how people are buying bitcoins cause the banks are closed!
Remember all the talk about Venezuela and how people there are buying bitcoin to hedge against the bolivar?
Remember the Iran scare, where supposedly millions of Iranians we're buying BTC?
Nigeria? Turkey?

Why it's not like that now? Because it was false from the beginning!
In all those cases we didn't really see an effect on the price because the few people that actually did it couldn't move the price a dime.

Now this pandemic hit where it matters, the western world!!! Where there is both money enough to make the price go to the moon and enough BTC to drop it to 4k.

And what happened? Nothing special, BTC went the same way as stocks, the same way as everything!
That's his point, the whole scenario the economy fails BTC will go to the moon was false.
I've told people a hundred times if the economy will crumble, if there are job loses, shutdowns, less than 1% of those who invest during good times will buy now. It's natural!!!

Bitcoin's price reflects one thing, the trust people put in its value, and currently, that trust is down -48% percent from what it was 30 days ago.

Is the coin still working as it should, yes it does, apart from a small timeframe where we had a close to~40MB mempool everything is fine!
When it comes to price, the people are the ones deciding it, and it looks like they've decided it's not worth that much.
I'm certain the trend will change once we're done with the virus but one thing was cleared with this.

Bitcoin's price is still to fragile and it's adoption too low to face a worldwide crisis yet. YET! This test came to soon!


Exactly!
That's how free markets should work!
Demand and offer, if the people don't want something, it's their choice, you don't force them to buy or sell at a fixed price.
But sometimes, when things go wrong, the same people that advocate for freedom are starting to lean towards a controlled market.

Because, what matters most in the end, is money, no matter how they look or how they are called.

In the near future, I feel it is still difficult for bitcoin to be recognized as being able to replace the current currency, not that I do not support it but in the near future this will not happen because people now still view bitcoin as a fast investment. It takes a lot of time

But this cut across every market. Even the stock market is also affected. I lived in a country where the major source of revenue if from oil and due to the crises, the economy is affected including importation. The price of crude oil has crash and the government is looking for a way to mitigate the effect of this loss. The same is happening to crypto which is regarded also as an asset. I want to believe reason, why there is a lot of hoax about this, is that people see crypto more as currency rather than asset

Bitcoin is none of those things you have mentioned . These were started by some enthusiasts and I don’t have time to believe things like that; I only accept Satoshi's definition of Bitcoin that it is a payment method. He never said that Bitcoin was a replacement for fiat and he never said that it is a store of value, he only called it a payment method and that’s what I see it as.

Since the price fluctuates, I also see it as an investment and I’m always ready for it, knowing that it is volatile, I invest only what I can afford to risk. You got to be careful, stop believing everything you see, though anything can be used as a store for value if you want.

bitcoin is still young and sealed as cryptocurrency, the identity crisis was expected to happen normally that's because of their volatility, aside from that bitcoin involves the exchange of money and consumers which is needed laws in place to protect their assets, unfortunately, the majority are not yet enough and still do not understand and not used digital currency cause of lack of knowledge regarding the cryptocurrency probably bitcoin is very useful need to expand throughout the world especially now many people affected with coronavirus which is digital cash because many people abandon fiat currency as payment for their daily basis.

I think the identity crisis of bitcoin is because it isn't considered transaction money. For the laws, it's a Virtual Active. And that's the problem, you can't make a payment with bitcoin and get a tax bill because, in theory, you are not paying in bitcoin. So, my answer is yes, it's under an identity crisis.

I don't think that bitcoin would replace the fiat currency because not all people are really used with technology especially those rural places, so it would be hard for them to learn about different cryptocurrency, do not think that the bitcoin has an identity crisis if it is only going down, bitcoin already reaches about the lowest value of it for about 3,000 USD but it turns back again, bitcoin dumping is a normal thing because of its volatility and that feature of the bitcoin makes itself as good for investments and trading because that is how we may earn from the bitcoin.

Indeed, they keep on saying that bitcoin will be dead when it reaches for about 3,000 Dollars, and feels like so happy when it reaches for about 10,000 dollars. So basically, they already know that bitcoin is volatile which means it changes its price minute by minute. So stop thinking about that way because bitcoin bumping and dumping is a normal thing.

It is, somehow. It is formulated as p2p cryptocurrency. But it is said to believe in different ways by others. Thus, this identity  crisis is really happening now. But this will not change the fact this this bitcoin is an advantage to most of us here. In it's overall, it is still bitcoin where in we can do digital payments and transactions like it used to be which also doesn't need any third party.
 
 However, when it comes to the financial freedom. Well, you can control over your bitcoin because they can't have any access to your own digital wallets.

My assumption before this corona crisis was that in case of economy slowdown, people will sell off stocks and then they would need some safe haven to park their investments. In that case, crypto can come up as an alternative along with gold, oil and other commodities. But unfortunately, even when the oil prices are halved, money got wiped out of the crypto too.

Th biggest reason could be the small market which can easily be manipulated by a small degree of sell off in such economic condition.

Thus, replacing fiat would need much more than just a use case. It needs volume.

Good observation. And this pandemic already demonstrated that when in panic, everything is sold for USD, which is long been regarded as a worse currency than BTC by people here

The root for this is planted long long ago in everyone's mind: Since we were born, we got used to use USD to measure value, USD is like foot to measure length or lbs to measure weight, it is a standard unit to measure value, and its value never changes, just like foot or lbs. We received  this concept from our parents and grand parents, and there is no way to get rid of this way of thinking easily, unless you travel a lot between countries and use many different currencies

So, in panic, BTC would only be kept by those people who don't use fiat money to measure value, they are highly knowledgeable in economy and money theory, and they are very few

If people can measure value without using fiat money, e.g. they can understand that everything's value is relative and fluctuating, including fiat money, then BTC will become fiat money independant. For example, if people start to use energy unit like kwh to measure value (since everything valuable essentially are some form of energy or made by input some energy), then bitcoin's value will be related to its mining energy input, instead of USD

On the other hand, you can see that the idea of a standard unit of value (fiat money) have deep effect on people's prespective and behavior, so that no matter how much more USD is printed, people still regard its value unchanged, they actually become a life-time slave of that cognition

Well, now we know that cash is actually the safe haven that most investors choose. People here often hate fiat, especially the US dollar, but in short term it's very stable and predictable, and inflation really doesn't mean much on a scale of weeks and months.

And as for volume, it's a closed loop problem - there's little volume so the price is volatile, and because the price is volatile volume doesn't want to come - less people want to adopt it or trade it.

I also think like that. however, although it is still in a state of crisis, there are still many people who are optimistic about prices, and also make asset investments, because they are speculating for greater prices. if this is a time of crisis, I think this is a good enough situation to immediately do a large stock.

due to CV i have plenty of time to think
i changed my standard procedure about how i read posts in our beloved forum
now i am reading just the OP only if it is small enough
but i am reading such posts at least ten times before i decide to reply

from my POV exclusively ,here is my reply (green letters within the quoted OP)


Elias Ch.
*please do not merit my post here, since i am 50+ years old i love to stay SENIOR member of our forum
*i do not feel the need to be Hero or Legend of any kind.

Well honestly one cannot expect bitcoins to increase in price of get all that positive impact due to the Halving when you see the economic condition the world is in.
Everything is breaking , people are dying , governments are collapsing therefore I do think there is no way that bitcoins would increase at a time like this , what one can wish is all of this to be over really really soon and us finding a vaccination which is completely effective .
You know , people are using bitcoins now more than ever therefore I do think there is nothing wrong with bitcoins .

I think that the whole economy in crisis and cryptoeconomy too

The ironic thing is, at such a critical time, with tons of helicopter money, banks are refusing to loan to the company that most needed money, simply because their forecast showing that those companies are losing order dramatically and are on the brink of bankrupt

Similarly, commercial banks in my country are not interested in getting those QE loans from central bank, since central bank asking for collateral, and they have to buy collateral from central bank at an unfavorable rate, means central bank want to get a cut from this crisis too

It is totally corrupt at the top in today's financial system, and that's why people are embracing bitcoin and self managed cash flow, instead of becoming killed by the bankers at such a moment

Yeah, it's pretty disgusting that newly printed money is being used as yet another bailout for billionaires, despite the fact that numerous studies have shown it to be a weak method of providing stimulus to the economy.  Maybe that's why they don't refer to them as 'stimulus packages' anymore?  The term seems to have fallen out of use.

In fairness, though, even though we'll probably never agree with how QE is utilised by central banks, it's not like Bitcoin is capable of providing loans to the companies that need it either.  They'll need an entrepreneurial whale for that.  The totally debt-free nature of Bitcoin is absolutely the right path for what we're setting out to achieve, but it does mean we aren't really in a position to "save" the ones who are already in debt.

No, Bitcoin do not, it is some people that do not understand what they want form Bitcoin. I can assure you Bitcoin is coming out of this crisis stronger, remember most of these new money printing is going somewhere and some of it will find its way into Crypto. Fed just printed more than $1 trillion which is far more than the whole Crypto marketcap

With the current economic crisis caused by the corona virus does not make bitcoin replace the role of fiat, because according
my opinion it was too quick to conclude that bitcoin is able to replace fiat with network lighting. It is true currently using
bitcoin is very effective as cross border payments, because it can prevent transmission of the corona virus. But on the other
hand there are still many reasons bitcoin still cannot replace the role of fiat as a whole. For now I feel that bitcoin is still better
as an investment compared as payment.

This crisis just told everyone that do not hope that banks will bailout you in a crisis, you should start to save/invest a security buffer against economy shock, and cryptocurrencies are one of the best saving medium

This is a very difficult period for the world, most likely there will be a global recession, I don't think there is any problem with bitcoin but if world finance suffers, unfortunately, bitcoin also suffers a lot about this situation.

This is what I believe as well. I don't think its necessarily a bitclin issue, but right now a world issue. I don't think bitcoin is mainstream enough for people to choose to put their money in rkght now compared to things like fiat. Especially during a recession.

Unfortunately, it is a very dangerous and unexpected situation for global finance and we are still at the beginning, therefore, everything is very uncertain for the moment. If the
 big financial market should recover in the future I am sure that bitcoin will resume its race otherwise I see it very hard at the moment that the cryptocurrency market can recover fast. The situation is much more serious than what people think in this forum

Bitcoin's true purpose will be proven when the financial crisis goes extremely severe and fiat currencies loses its value, people will start to shift their interest towards protecting their money. The flash crash occured because people needed to cover losses, if the banks continues money printing then this would inflate and lower the purchasing power of paper money. Then from there we would see Bitcoin will decouple from stock.

I also don't think everyone should hope for a financial crisis in hopes of the price of bitcoin going up. I'd like to see the price rise, but not at the expense of normal people not knowing about it or their currency being worthless.

From the previous weeks the market price of the bitcoin fall down immediately and that was not good news because it is a huge loss to the people who made a lot of investment to make more earning and they need to do is holding their coins because it is not good if they are trying to withdraw their funds immediately, and today after the crisis we are facing about the virus it is quite recovering for a while and this is a good sign for good changes because the volume of the bitcoin again will continuously increasing and also when the market price of the coin fall there is a chance that many investors again will grab the opportunity to make more investment because by using the buy low and sell high you can make a lot of income, still we are hoping to the market price of the bitcoin to make profitable again.

Have you ever read the story of those that started making use of bitcoin at first and became millionaires? If you check the reason why they started making use of Bitcoin, they always say that it’s because they saw it as a good asset that will likely yield profit in the future.

And they were right , it’s an investment and I don’t think there is a single person here that just put their money in Bitcoin and then decided to leave it there and hope that it will be adopted one day in the world lol, everyone here is always worried when they are losing their money in Bitcoin and they are happy when they are making profit, that’s the truth, anyone that denies it a big liar. But, that doesn’t stop BTC from being adopted anyway, though not as to replace fiat.

Those who believed in early days of bitcoin surely hit their dreams to be a millionaire or even a billionaire if they are already a millionaire that time. Did Satoshi really made a currency or an investment? We would not know but the thing is he coined it as cryptocurrency that just so happened that the price is increasing due to demand and supply. Not to argue if it is currency or investment.

So it's both? I don't really mind if it is currency or investment coz I always have it in my wallet, I use it whenever I want but I'm also basing with the price. Regardless of what bitcoin is capable of there will be a day of change, where all people would live alongside with bitcoin as a currency and digital investment that's for sure.

I disagree that bitcoin is failed to face this situation, no its actually doing better than stocks.We are about 20% of loss since this spread but stocks and other things were about 40% so bitcoin can able to withstand at some point while others are falling and more over we are witnessing green for last few days which means bitcoin is recovering and can show what it is capable of crisis situation.

The first thing that came into my mind while I was the reading the OP was that there would never be a crash in bitcoin if bitcoin's price was not compared to USD or any fiat currency. It is only because of comparing it to fiat that people portray that bitcoin is crashing.
If we completely boycott fiat and use cryptocurrencies alone then there would never be a chance where we would say that BTC has crashed.
It's value should be used in terms of Satoshis alone and that is what Satoshi's vision was which by the way most of us have forgot.

I think not yet crisis of bitcoin right now although price dump, did you remember when China banned bitcoin transaction as legal currency and many ICO project banned in their country? how dump bitcoin price but can back again to higher price and start new era with bitcoin touch on higher level price.

Perhaps it would help if we could outline an "identity" that we all agree on?  People will probably argue for the rest of time on whether it's appropriate to call it a "currency", "asset", "digital gold", "safe haven", "store of value", or whatever other phrases get bandied about.  Each and every one of those terms can conceivably be disputed depending on the current circumstances.  We need a description no one can dispute.

What if we described it as a global safe deposit box?

The fiat value of the contents you keep in a safe deposit box can change, much like the fiat value of bitcoins.
Only the person with a valid key can access the safe deposit box, much like the bitcoins in your wallet.

Seems like a better "identity" than those other popular phrases people use.

You are absolutely right, because Bitcoin has individual technical characteristics, among which a very important feature of Bitcoin is its limited number.  Unlike fiat funds, Bitcoin will never be subject to inflation and this is a big advantage of Bitcoin over any other currencies.  Today we are still only at the beginning of the development of the cryptocurrency market and the world is only beginning to learn all the possibilities of the cryptocurrency, although this process is much slower than we would really like.  But if society will use Bitcoin to the full as a means of payment in everyday life, then it can even be called a real storehouse for its savings.  But one way or another today, many investors consider Bitcoin as a very successful investment, especially if it was possible to buy Bitcoin at a bargain price.

We'll never agree on one primary use case. Why don't we just call it "money?" The definition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money) seems all-encompassing:


Gold and fiat currency are just different forms of money. Why can't the same idea apply to Bitcoin? Everything else is just marketing.

I dont think so.Bitcoin has already establish its identity itself.Even now that the price of btc arent stable and dump i still considered it as a safe haven.

I guess for most people, their perception of whether or not Bitcoin is safe haven will depend on what price they bought in at.  I've been around since 2013, so it feels pretty damn safe for me, but people who bought in at a higher price than I did naturally won't feel as "safe".

Those who lose hope and attempt to sell their BTC when they see bearish market, they will never be successful anymore. I don't think that bitcoin has an identity crisis now. As we can see, the price of Bitcoin has dropped a bit and this is not the first time this is happening. This type of dump has happened before so, now the price is a bit lower though we hope everything will be fine after coronavirus outbreaks.

This week has been a fierce week, I dread about what is going to occur in my nation on the grounds that my money has lose an incentive against the usd in light of the very fact that we intensely depend on raw petroleum for our economy and now raw petroleum has smashed, we'll have a spending deficiency, which suggests my legislature must get to fund the financial limit in any case there'll be a big emergency, this is not simply bitcoin alone, the frenzy on the earth caused all of those , humanities are frightened. :) :)

Absolutely not. Bitcoin is not like anything in the current market.