Bitcoin Forum

Hi all,
I'm opening this thread to trace the status of the REFUND REQUEST done to Bitmine.ch, I'm waitin my fuckin 61th day to ask for the refund (that will be this wednesday), for the moment, I think that could be helpfull for us to trace the refund status for our "ghost" miner.

Please follow the same schema used to trace the orders.


And people don't be sad.... the shipment date?

NEXT WEEK LIKE LAST WEEK!

I also want my goddamn money back... I even filed what they called a Betreibung, kind oft debt enforcement. But they ( bitmine) refused. So I need to open up a court case. As I am German and this company is in Tessin Which is the Italian part of switzerland all the authorities answer me in Italian. Quite frankly I don't understand shit..

Now I need to find a swiss lawyer who can speak  Italian and german fluently. This is not going to be cheap and if i win the case they can pay for that...
I am sure I am going to win the case so why don't they just pay me the money back right away, itl be cheaper for them and less of a hustle for me...

In the end they didn't deliver and they can't do so denying me my money according to European but further more to Swiss law.

Where can I find the form to fill in for refund?

https://bitmine.zendesk.com/attachments/token/zfiab2apjgpgpui/?name=Refund+Request+Form.pdf

Good luck my friend

Thanks!
Luck will be needed when dealing with Bitmine

Make sure that you get a confirmation that bitmine have recieved your refund request.
I know two persons were bitmine states not have recieved refund fequest and they had to apply Once more

I'm waiting since mid February when I filed my refund request.

They confirmed my request telling me it would take 3 to 5 days on average, we're over 40 days now and still no refund.


spiccioli

I ordered a rig and paid for it with BTC late Nov.  Was supposed to be Jan week 5 delivery.  I got sick of waiting and do not see Bitmine as able to give a realistic date when rig production will start.

I was/am queue position 13X in the rig line and I am done waiting.  Filled out the request form and sent it via email on the 26th, received the auto reply from their support.

If I receive my refund plus the 10% promised I will only be a little pissed off at them instead of furious...   I have been nothing but polite and professional and I think understanding about the delays but at this point it's just too much.  I can't understand how a company treats customers like this and expects them to come back as repeat customers in the future. 

@Bitmine BTC is a long game and your short sighted thinking is doing harm to your reputation by the day.  Good luck, I just wish for my BTC to be refund so I can put this epic failure behind me for good.

If they are over 30 day's without refund, just hand the case over to a lawyer .. then you should be on the safe side ..

(copy past from main tread)

Hey all of you.

About 33 days ago i told you all i filled for refund in line whit the ccp. and i promised you all to keep you updated....

To update, as its over 50 page's back, in this tread...

My order was for delivery first week of dec., (last delv date 3 dec. NOT shipping) all payed in time and so on....

Now whit 5 months delay and no sign of a miner....

33 days ago i filled for the refund + 10 % as ccp state...

I got a mail, telling me they got my msg and its forwarded to their accounts department (like they even have one ;S) .....

33 days later and still NO SIGN OF BTC OR MINER....

This was, is, and will always be a SCAM

(If you don't believe me, read the hole tread, and the real official one (this is not it, this one is bitmine.ch controlled and they shut it down on will) and see mine and others big warnings here ;S)

So stay clear of this scam.... ;)

Don't wast your money.... if you are really interested in mining? join a cloud mining team instead, no waiting, no customs, no risk, no electrical bill, no hardware failure or 24/7 baby sitting you equipment, you don't have to do any thing but get payed, and if you want out? you just resell any mining power you bought and get even bigger return on your investment.... and you can invest even small amounts of BTC (like 0.001 btc) ....

Her is 2 great teams, and i my self has tested and using both, pay out every 10 min to your account, no mater how small (start small and reinvest if you whona test it out first, if you don't believe in it, don't just take my word for it, test it your self... )

h ttps://cex.io/r/1/blackice666/0/
(Not further protected, investment return runs out i November 2014)

h ttp://scrypt.cc?ref=bab7d
(This is scrypt mining, countet in Kh/s not Gh/s as its different (heavy-er to mine, alt. coins and no asic mining) this IS further protected, also for the new no acis N-scrypt and J-scrypt)

(Remove the "space" in the HTTP, it would not allow me to write the url directly ;S )

You wont be disappointet believe me ;P my own investment have jump't up around 160%+ the original investment, in the last 30 days.

Just saying, happy mining to all of you ;)

Peace and out !!!

Are you serious, you are going to bash them and then push your own crap, have a little professionalism, thanks for showing me a couple of places i will not be doing business with..

Whether the bashing is deserved or not keep things separate..

Hi all,

I called BITMINE on the phone today and been told I have to wait until 10 of May(next Saturday) if I want to request a refund...which means 71days+..... so disappointed, and I read the CPP again..it seems they are right：after 71 days totally I can request a refund...
but I will not change my mind..on 10 of May,I will request a refund again..
I post here because I hope someone like me will see these ,and we should fight together for our right and our money back..if I can get the machine next week does not help,considered the diff of the bitcoin...there will no profits at all..

if I have enough money,I can buy 1T machine in China  with less than a half price of the products of BITMINE immediately,pay attentions : immediately, no need to wait..., even that,it's hard  for profits...

Wir haben auch eine Gutschrift beantragt, das Formular "Refund Request" heruntergeladen, ausgefüllt, eingescannt, per Mail gesendet und das original per Einschreiben mit Rückschein in die Schweiz gesendet (7€).

Diese Mail haben wir erhalten!


Seit dem wir das Formular gesendet haben, haben nichts mehr von Bitmine gehört!

Nun ist die Frage,
a) sollen wir hier in Deutschland eine Strafanzeige stellen, wegen Betrug
b) einen online Mahnbescheid gegen diese Firma in der Schweiz stellen
c) beides zusammen?
d) einen Anwalt einschalten? Aber was kann der mehr? Außer mehr Kosten verursachen?
e) abwarten und Kaffee trinken

Seit unserer Bezahlung schreiben wir diese Firma an, uns eine ordentliche Rechung zu schreiben,
das haben die Leute von Bitmine bis heute nicht getan.

Es ist echt unglaublich was die sich alles leisten!

Publikationsdatum     01.07.2013

Bitmine AG, in Camorino, CH-501.3.017.896-7, Centro La Monda 2, 6528 Camorino, società anonima (nuova iscrizione). Data dello statuto: 25.06.2013. Scopo: L'erogazione, la realizzazione, la produzione, la vendita e la consulenza di prodotti e servizi informatici, in particolare quelli legati a valute digitali come bitcoin e litecoin. La società può compiere operazioni commerciali, industriali, finanziarie e bancarie, ipotecarie ed immobiliari, compresi l'acquisto,la vendita, la permuta di beni mobili, immobili, veicoli e diritti immobiliari. La società può assumere partecipazioni in società ed imprese nonché possedere immobili e partecipare a consorzi ed a raggruppamenti di imprese. Capitale azionario: CHF 500'000.00. Capitale azionario liberato: CHF 500'000.00. Azioni: 1'000 azioni al portatore da CHF 500.00. Organo di pubblicazione: FUSC. Le comunicazioni della società agli azionisti avvengono mediante comunicazione scritta (inclusa via fax o e-mail o altro mezzo elettronico). Con dichiarazione del 25.06.2013 la società non è soggetta alla revisione ordinaria e rinuncia a una revisione limitata. Persone iscritte: Massarotto, Giorgio, da Langnau im Emmental, in Melide, presidente, con firma individuale; Anselmi, Christian, da Vogorno, in Brione sopra Minusio, membro, con firma collettiva a due.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Publikationsdatum     13.02.2014

Bitmine AG, in Camorino, CHE-205.677.760, società anonima (FUSC no. 124 del 01.07.2013, Pubbl. 949843). Statuti modificati: 06.02.2014. Nuovo capitale azionario: CHF 1'000'000.00 [finora: CHF 500'000.00]. Nuovo capitale azionario liberato: CHF 1'000'000.00 [finora: CHF 500'000.00]. Nuove azioni: 10'000 azioni al portatore da CHF 100.00. [finora: 1'000 azioni al portatore da CHF 500.00]. Aumento ordinario. Nuove persone iscritte o modifiche: Kurtisi, Zefir, cittadino germanico, in Bubikon, membro, senza diritto di firma.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.shabex.ch/co/exc/bitmine_ag_CH-501.3.017.896-7.htm (http://www.shabex.ch/co/exc/bitmine_ag_CH-501.3.017.896-7.htm)

Handelsregister: Kanton Tessin
HR-Firmennummer:CH-501.3.017.896-7
UID: CHE-205.677.760
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Massarotto, Giorgio
http://www.shabex.ch/pe/man/massarotto_giorgio_1877241.htm (http://www.shabex.ch/pe/man/massarotto_giorgio_1877241.htm)

Wohnort: Melide
Heimatort: Langnau im Emmental

"Massarotto Giorgio"  +"Langnau im Emmental" +"Melide"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hallo
Laut der abg sind es 61 Tag
Ich habe auch 61 Tage gewartet dann habe ich meine Rückforderung gesendet.
Ich habe ihnen eine Frist von 25 Tagen gegeben nach 20 Tagen hatte ich immer noch keine Antwort , dann war mir alles zu viel und ich musste Luft ablassen da habe ich angerufen
Und Mahl richtig meine Meinung gesagt und nicht nach gegeben und am nächsten Tag hatte ich mein Geld in bitcoins bekommen
Fazit nie wieder pre-order

I asked for refund (CCD) more than 30 days ago, and I still didn't got my money back.

Relying on 61+10 days late delivery is against TOS from Bitmine. There is not stated "first 10 days does not count as late delivery" (as Giorgio stated sooner in his thread too), but there is written "shipment can be LATE 10 days… and after 61 days of late delivery you can ask for refund….". It's big difference in my opinion. So correct way should be accepting refund after exactly 61 days of late delivery, not 71 days as bit mine does at this time.

But Bitmine used to warp all rules in their favor and we can only hope, that we will see our money back on one day. Never more give a trust in company with only reason that they are placed in Switzerland. They damaged swiss reputation more than anything else.

Refund request sent on 5th April.

>> Antonio (Bitmine AG)
>> Apr 07 15:34
>>
>> Dear Sir,
>> we have received your request and has already been forwarded to our credit team.
>> The refund will be $xxx-$30=$xxx +10% = xxx$ plus the shipping fee xxx$ =xxx$

>> Me
>> Apr 16th
>> Will I hear anything from the "credit team", or will my BTC just appear in my BitCoin address at some point ?

>> Kerim (Bitmine AG)
>> Apr 16 16:05
>>
>> No, you will receive your refund at some point within 30 days from the day you sent us the refund form.

Today is day 30. No BTC refunded yet.

PM sent to giorgiomassa @ 9:03 am today, giorgiomassa last on at 11:40am today. No reply, no BTC refunded as of yet.

Same situation here.. My refund form was 'accepted' 1 of april and after 35 days i dont got any money back. The order appear in status cancelled but they dont refund anything. If this week still the same i will find some lawyer, if more people is in the same situation we can find one better lawyer between all to demand a case for all. I want to know if someone got the refund back already or not.

Sorry for my primitive english.

It's better than my < your language> !! :-)

Based on swissmining's initial work, a lawyer has been identified and seems to cost around $1,000.  Well worth it to get my money back.

It wouldn't be so bad if giorgiomassa didn't just ignore every PM and actually told us what was happening.  Also the support team all seem to have lost the ability to reply.

Interesting reading here: http://www.freezing-orders.ch/

These look like the Swiss equivalent to winding up orders here in the UK. Costs look like around $250 if you are getting a refund for a 1TH/s desktop.

Interestingly these freezing orders are against the assets of an individual (in this case Giorgio Massarotto), so would include Bitmine, Exion Networks and even his apartment in Melide. They are frozen to stop them running off with the assets.

I'm also waiting for 35+ days of the refund of my order placed initially on november 18th 2013.

My Refund is now also overdue.

04.th april. regardless bitmine says it is registered at the 8th with them. i say it count on the day i was sending the refund.
thats 33 days!

.. same happened to me  >:(

It's like "Kindergarten"  >:(

.. look's like every day is important to them  ???

Hello guys,

I have been reading both the unofficial and official Bitmine thread. Lots of frustrations by unhappy customers. I'm trying to get my refund from this company for two orders, total ~ $ 50.000

I have been very patient, paid November 2013 but no rigs or any clear estimate is given by Bitmine. Their deadline of their "30 days" refund period is about to expire but no response for weeks now by either mail or phone (not being picked up).

I'm now planning to visit their facility and if needed file a local police report. Anyone visited their facility lately and/or having the same plans? For people who have visited their facility more recently, are they still located at this location?


Please send me a PM so we might join as a group.

.. to do what  ???

Burn them! .. We must start find some lawyer together and pay between all. Any idea to organize it? 37 days after order cancelled and no money/answers to mails.

For everyone who filled a refund and got paid or is waiting for payment please list your refund claim at www.bitminerefund.com (http://www.bitminerefund.com) so we can build a list of open and paid refunds.

Ciao a tutti,

they changed the site design and now there is also a page that talks about the refund:
http://bitmine.ch/delays-refunds-processing/

Like many of you I have a claim for an order that I have done to this company. Now it's been more than 30 days and I will call tomorrow.

I will let you know ... because I live in Ticino, a few kilometers away from the centre of Bitmine.

Ciao

Thanks for info! They said the delay is cause of bank limit wire transfers.but i dont know of nobody who got his refund back.bullshit

I'm a BTC refund. They have 1921 BTC in this address: https://blockchain.info/address/1Cz1pTK8GxsJqdHQrFLWh77WwYsyqyDX3k  Nothing to do with bank wires

Good... do you know Via Giulio Pocobelli in Melide?

I was fooled by bitmine.ch support to wait the entire months of March and April for my Coincraft Desk, fully paid since Dec 4, 2013.
#3876 from December 4, 2013
CoinCraft Desk 400 GH/s (February week 3 batch #2) x1 + shipping via Worldwide Express
I requested a refund on April 30 2014, but I didn't attached a picture of my ID card (what a big fuss, they know me very well !)
I re-send it on May-05-2014, "by the book", I am still waiting any reaction from them.
Until the "wonder" news from today, nothing !

Hi there, can you submit your refund in our central database listing so we can keep track of the refunds?

www.bitminerefund.com thanks!!

Noticed that order 4510 on the page is not yet eligible for refund.
Shouldn't these be kept of the list?
Or is it a RIG?
Would it be a good idea to have the info if it is a CCD or CCR?

It got a confirmation date set during it's submission, this is user provided data with a confirmation date, maybe a refund request which got honored earlier then it should?

I can adjust the page where it looks to the order date and calculates the days between order date, but then again, bit difficult because Bitmine I believe counts from the batch delivery week, not the order date. Not sure how to make that 100% water-proof. Suggestions?

Yes Bitmine counts from the batch delivery week but I think you can start caounting from that week Friday.
For the next (February last week) refund requestors that means they can request for refund incoming Saturday.
That means the caounting started 28.2 which is the last week of February but also last day of the month.
Maybe there should be a column for "Promised delivery date"?
Or another way would be that you had to forward the confirmation mail for refund also? Then you would have confirmation for that the order is cancelled for real.

I splitted up the listing for unverified and verified. Users who now submit their refund listing will be first under the "unverified" listing. When they send their order confirmation then I can move them to "verified". There is always a small chance for user error when they wrongly assume their refund is processed.

I extended the form to include the e-mail address for the refund so future listings with odd things can now be back-contacted by us to ask for clarification.

Hope this helps! Check out the new layout: www.bitminerefund.com (http://www.bitminerefund.com)

yes of course I can get there .... Is where Massarotto lives?

http://exion.ch/
http://www.moneyhouse.ch/p/massarotto_giorgio-3620812/
https://plus.google.com/103011437059051920094/about?gl=ch&hl=it

Yes.  You might get more luck knocking on his door. I wonder if his neighbours are aware of the fact he's scamming people left right and centre.


Him and his wife have just had a new baby, which might account for some delays, but with the general lack of communication it's impossible to know!

I have a serious problems with my refund.

On March I wrote to Bitmine.ch about my order, and there was a German like guy which work for Bitmine.ch support and this one wrote to me to be patient because "your *CoinCraft Desk* will be ready on KW 15"
I goggled I found this: http://www.tuxgraphics.org/toolbox/calendar.html
KW15 is the week from 06.04-12.04 2014
I didn't received nothing on April so I emailed again on April 28 demanding explanations.
Since nobody reply to me, I decided to email and asking for a refund on April 30.
I forgot only to attach my photo with the ID card.
It seems nobody care at Bitmine.ch, because nobody contacted me after this email !
I decided to send an email again on Monday, 05 May. This time I did my refund request "by the book".
On May 8, finally, Kerim from support wrote only this:

Kerim (Bitmine AG)
May 08 17:12

Dear Mr. XXX,

excuse me for late answer. Your order #3876 will be delivered within a week from today. Thank you for your patience so far.

Best regards,

Bitmine AG, Bitmine.ch

Not a single word about my refund request !
Therefore I replied immediate:

XXXX <XXXXX@YYYY>
   
May 8 (2 days ago)
      
to Bitmine
NO !!!

I requested a full refund for my order on 05.05.2014
Check your emails please !
Here, one more time: [the PDF file with the Refund Request + a photo of my ID card]

One day later:
Kerim (Bitmine AG)

May 09 14:05

Dear Mr. XXX,

Sorry it looks like we sent your order before cancelling your order. Just send the shipment back to us and we will cancel the order and proceed with the refund process. Thank you and sorry for this hassle.

Best regards,

Bitmine AG, Bitmine.ch


This is outrageous !
Bitmine.ch refuse to give me back the money !

Well at least they agreed on to take it back and continue the refund.
I just filed for refund on my order and wrote in the e-mail that I will not accept a delivery after 10.5.2014 and if they deliver after that it will be sent back because I have already asked for refund.
But as a big minus is that they did not contact you that something was missing from the refund request.
There is not mentioned anywhere that is the fron or front+back of your ID needed.
I even wrote in the mail that if the back side is needed they need to contact me.

Which mail adress did you send the request to?

today I requested for refund for my order #4184
the order is still in "Processing" state on their website so I'll start the fight for refund on monday by sending them another mail asking for a confirmation on cancellation of my order :)
I also submitted my order to www.bitminerefund.com (http://www.bitminerefund.com). this adress would be good to have in the first post.

Someone called them? Still no answer on mails :/

My refund date for 2TH/s Rig was also May 10, and I emailed them on Saturday along with sending a registered letter. Today I called up and spoke to Kerim, and he changed the order status to Cancelled. He also told me there will be some delay in processing the refund. I answered that I can wait 30 days at most before looking at legal options.

I know there are other people here who are planning to register a criminal or civil case with the Swiss police. I can join your efforts if I feel that Bitmine are not going to pay what they owe me.

I hope "they" are happy now:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=366659.msg6724179#msg6724179  = THE SCAM LIST

50Days of refund was accepted still no answer on mails and no money back...
Time to take one lawyer and legal actions? I asked some swiss lawyer and they said me



"To accomplish this (chargeable) individual advice is called for. A first consultation (incl. studying the relevant documents) usually requires 1 h to 1 ½ h; based on an hourly rate of 350 Swiss Francs plus VAT of currently 8%."


I think that we should submit a collective demand and the costs will be less.

I have seen that there have been news in payment, good :)

Can you provide any proof of this?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291141.msg6870881#msg6870881 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291141.msg6870881#msg6870881)

Perhaps I have badly explained, my english is not the best, sorry. I have seen tances that on 21.05.2014 there were several payments. Unfortunately my not yet: (

according to their refund request form the refund in BTC will be paid according to the current USD/BTC rate.

Hi,
My refund is now 10 days overdue.

Did you ever get a lawyer? I would like to go in on one if you or anyone else is interested. If not can you give me the contact information for the lawyer you mentioned?  

If anyone is interested in opening a class action suit against bitmine, please email me at subversionsteve@gmail.com.

Thanks!

Sorry to disappoint, but there is no class-action in Switzerland.

this is my latest e-mail exchange with bitmine

It technically doesn't have to be a class action suit. I'm just talking about several people coordinating with a lawyer to sue bitmine. I don't really care what they call it. If anyone is interested please contact me. I'll be calling lawyers within the next couple days regardless.

Steve,

Count me in. I am sending you a PM. I think we should also have the creator of bitminerefund.com involved, either be part of the same lawsuit as his, or have him be part of the one you are starting.

Hi I am also interested in this class action, they have about 5000 euros that have not returned.

Hope news.

I am in.
maybe the owner of bitminerefund.com can organize it or we can do a mail list with the interested. I asked some swiss lawers but my english is not so good to organize it. sorry.

Here is my Story with Bitmine.ch.
i spend 11k Euro  on november 2013 for a mine rig . 3 months after still no rig . i send em lots of emails asking whats happening and i get almost no respond back .. nothing special .

i call em and i ask for a refund . i send them the papers needed for it . and even if i asked them if they received them .. still no response ..

after a month . ( refund will take maximum 30 days as it sais ont heir web site .. no refund yet . so i call them and they say im sorry your email went to the spam folder so you refund wasnt register you have to send us the papers again ..
Fucking unbelievable ...

now 2 months after im calling them every week . asking for my money still . they keep saying call us in a few days  .. in a few days .. in a few days ..

The name of the people that work as customer service  is Karim . Diego . an Antonios . .

Karim said dont worry i ll do your refund myself .. and i ll send you an email .. since that day he is not there on the call support ..

Antonios .. he speaks Greek like i am .. even i repetedly asked to speak to him he is not coming on phone ..

Diego seems to be there all the time .. all he sais is .. aham .. sorry i dont know whent he refund will be .. call me back in a few days ..


This is outrageous .. and im still waiting ... Proffesional company .. yeah sure ..

and im still waiting ...

I placed my order back in December 2013 for  1TH miner.
I haven't had enough cash in hand, So I took loan from my local bank with high interest rate, with the hope when I get the miner in February  I will make money and payback to the bank.

I never receive the miner, I asked for refund couple of months ago.
So far no reply from bitmine.
Last 5 days I have been calling them everyday. No one answer the phone.
All I can hear "I got the power" track and "our Representative are currently busy" message.

I sent them tons of emails. no reply to my email. No one answer the phone.
International calls cost me money. still I keep calling them with the hope someone would answer the phone.

subversionsteve: Count me in.

I made order #4018 on December 6, 2013 and is currently processing, no miner, no refund, no answers to my emails.
I don´t want to get miner after one year for BTC, it will not be able to make any money.

I am very angry on them, they offer chips, housing, miners, but who paid for that? Me? You? This is fucking bad approach. Sorry about words, but this is how I see it.

You'll get your refund most likely in September / October depending on when you have asked for refund.

I asked for refund 10.5.2014 and latest info is that I'll receive my refund in the first half of September

As this hasn´t gotten into some of your minds:

THERE IS NO OPTION FOR CLASS ACTION LAW SUITS in Switzerland.
Every customer needs to sue for their refund themselves.

It is also a civil case, not a criminal one, as you are trying to recoup the funds you sent to a business.


Furthermore, lawyer costs are usually not awarded to the winning party in Switzerland, and they can be really high.

On top of that, Bitmine is located in a state where the official language is Italian, so have fun arguing your case in italian language.

However,  multiple people can use the same lawyer,  and can consolidate there losses into one.  Just no class action lawsuits.  AFAIK.

Multiple people could use the same lawyer, however the lawyer has to act on behalf of everyone individually, which means essentially the same workload, therefore the same pay.
Swiss lawyers aren´t cheap at all, and they normally don´t give discounts.

However, this could lead to a conflict of interest, as everyone wants the debtor to pay him (first / at all).
Therefore I wouldn´t advise to it, and it might not even be possible / legal.


I am not trying to dissuade anyone, but bitmine clearly has their business set up in a state / country where it is difficult to sue them, and difficult always means costly.

If this is an option for you, it might be both cheaper and quicker for you to work out some kind of deal for 2* the ordered hashpower or a transfer to cloudmining.

Ok after 2 weeks they told almost everything.
They can not send us our money because they make another business with our money and btc.
Now they told me they don't have money because they invest in Island.

WTF?!

Its my problem that they have shit business plan? That they take money buy hardware and now they could make any refund because they invest?

Its insane! Its crazy!

They have the best business plan ever!
- make hardware promises in BTC world
- take money
- invest in hardware
- make hardware line for one big company
- put small customers in ass
- take their money and make another invest breaking all rules
- be Swiss

Now we don't have any choice.
We must cooperate together to take our money back!
They CAN NOT send money not because they don't have it. This people make another big business with OUR money! Did You really see?

How we can open officially this case?

@michal1

Every customer would need to sue Bitmine themselves (with legal fees way in excess of 1000$), this cost will not be awarded to you if you win the case.

You would have to argue your case in Italian.

It should be easier to just try and recieve 2* your ordered hashpower or transfer your order to cloudhashing.


Finally, if Bitmine should become bankcrupt (there is no reason it should right now) you will sit on your additional expenses for a lawyer and no compensation at all.

Hi everyone, new? The list of bitminerefund it has stopped with the last payment on 11.06.2014, no other news? No one has been paid more?

A few days ago I spoke with a newspaper in the region, where there is also the company Bitmine AG. Soon, probably should go out an article about them ... :)

Because Bitmine doesn´t communicate and didn´t return my money, I decided to warn all potentional buyers:
http://bestp2pool.wordpress.com/2014/09/22/do-not-trust-bitmine-ch/ (http://bestp2pool.wordpress.com/2014/09/22/do-not-trust-bitmine-ch/)

Ordered on 29 november 2013, refund request in april and confirmation in may 15 after at least 2-3 email about my refund!

And guess what?

NO REFUND YET! / 30/9 -2014!!  >:(

I'm also waiting for my refund, confirmation received in april and still no refund.

What do you think about go to Swiss with few people from all Europe in the same day?
Who can ride with me to Swiss and check what this company do and speak with them face to face and demand our money!
We don't leave their company until they give us money back. Otherwise we can wait another year.

What do you think that will accomplish?

The only thing you will have is travel cost.

Try and either get them to send you additional hash power or transfer your order to cloudmining, otherwise I am afraid you will most likely have to wait for your refund.

Otherwise, if you are a Swiss citizen and fluent in Italian, try to get a court order that makes bitmine pay your money back.
(Or prepare for legal fees in excess of 1000$ on a 5000$ order, which will NOT be awarded to you if your case succeeds).

I am also planning to go to Camorino get my refunds, if you want to join me, contact me (franck.battaglia@sfr.fr)
THE MORE PEOPLE THE BETTER

Someone will go to Swiss? We can go together
My email cupidonefly@hotmail.com
To ask refund

Is here Some one  knows Swiss lawyer? Can we make it together? Save lawyers fee.

Anyone got there money back???

What the fuck bitmine!!

these emails are the key

 info@exion.ch,
sales@exion.ch
phone@exion.ch
 wimax@exion.ch
 wholesale@exion.ch
 admin@exion.ch  
g.massarotto@exion.ch

same address of bitmine , same people: http://myip.ms/info/whois/31.3.133.74

phones: +41912600410   +41 91 2600404 

any updates here?

Anyone got any news?

Got this message at the end of 2014!! I smell bull....


R Vogel   
R Vogel (Bitmine AG)
Dec 15 11:28

Hello

As you maybe already have noticed the Bitmine AG remains in serious financial trouble and can not continue the repayments for the moment, because the registered Refunds are too numerous to treat all requester equivalent.
Until some time ago the aim was to be over with all refunds by the end of the year, but it mostly depends on the bitcoin value, which, as you should know, quite decreased in the last time. So don't take this as a statement or a promise, but our goal is to solve everything. Please contact us again next year, this year we will have no more information in this regards.

In the meantime, we remain
Best regards

Thanks for your interests in our products.
Danke für Ihr Interesse an unseren Produkten.

For any questions don't hesitate to contact us. In the meantime
Für Fragen sind wir jederzeit für Sie da.

Kind regards/MfG

Customer Service

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bitmine-Scam/819000581491052

They are scammers. If you want expect to recover your money, you need to open an action in Switzerland.

Has anyone any updates about bitmine? if there is a case to join against them?

Still nothing... how do we proceed?

What do you expect from a person who's butt-buddies with Joshua Zipkin, son of Harrison Zachariah Zipkin (https://www.linkedin.com/pub/harrison-zachariah-zipkin/0/8a7/1a8), another con artist still residing in PA.

Any news here?  >:(

I have reported this to CYCO who have referred me to the Public Prosecutor in Ticino Canton. Interestingly, the clause about "delay not necessarily constituting a fraud" does not apply ot my case any longer because my order status on Bitmine AG website is now "cancelled". From a legal perspective, this cancels the contract and allows me to pursue Bitmine AG without being impeded by this grey area.

I am of course not saying that I am 100% confident in getting my stolen funds back, just that I am confident we can show that fraud has been committed and of course then this opens up the seizing of assets and so on, if only to make the directors' lives a misery for a long time to come.

If all else fails, taking the matter into one's own hands is a last resort. No one wants to do that, but we have to make sure that people really understands that this sort of thing is not OK. At the end of the day, whether through legal or other means, my main priority is to absolutely ensure that these guys can never do this again to anyone else. I can afford to lose what was stolen, but many others can't.

Keep going guys, we can at least make sure their lives are never the same again.

J

Any news here?  Some new progress?

I got this email from ombudstelle in switzerland. She sent it higher up, but nothing more have happend.

Sehr geehrte Frau Geiser

Ihre E-Mail Adresse wurde uns von Herrn Guido Sutter weitergeleitet.
Wir haben mehrere Anfragen bezüglich des Online-Shops www.bitmine.ch erhalten. Es werden Bitcoin-Rechner im Wert von mehreren tausend Franken bestellt und bezahlt. Die Geräte werden allerdings nie geliefert. Auch im Internet findet man Artikel über diesen Shop. Wir haben mehrmals versucht, mit der Firma Kontakt aufzunehmen. Sie haben allerdings nie geantwortet.
Ist Ihnen dieser Online-Shop bekannt? Gibt es Möglichkeiten, künftig Konsumenten davor zu schützen, bei bitmine.ch Rechner zu bestellen?

Für weitere Fragen stehe ich Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung! Besten Dank!

Freundliche Grüsse
Joana Nedeltcheva

Konnten wir Ihnen weiterhelfen und möchten Sie von unserer Beratung weiterhin profitieren? Dann unterstützen Sie uns und Werden Sie Mitglied, Gönner oder Kollektivmitglied >

Joana Nedeltcheva | Beraterin
Konsumentenforum kf | Belpstrasse 11 | 3007 Bern
T +41 31 380 50 34 | F +41 31 380 50


Google translated:

Dear Mrs. Geiser

Your e-mail address has been forwarded to us by Mr. Guido Sutter.
We have received several inquiries regarding the online shop www.bitmine.ch. There are ordered and paid for, worth several thousand francs Bitcoin Calculator. The devices are, however, never delivered. On the Internet you will find articles on this store. We have tried several times to contact the company. However, they have never responded.
If you enjoyed this online shop? Are there ways in the future to protect consumers not to buy at bitmine.ch computer?

For further questions I am gladly at your disposal! Thank You Very Much!

Kind Regards
Joana Nedeltcheva

Was this helpful to you and you want to continue to benefit from our services? Then support us and become a member, patron or collective member>

Joana Nedeltcheva | Advisor
Consumer Forum kf | Belpstrasse 11 | 3007 Bern
T +41 31 380 50 34 | F +41 31 380 50

Ombudsman ecommerce - konsum.ch

http://www.konsum.ch/ombudsstelle
Ombudsstelle E-Commerce - konsum.ch       

http://www.konsum.ch/ombudsstelle

http://www.bitmine.ch/ (http://www.bitmine.ch/)



Open letter from the former BITMINE AG management.


 

We are sorry to announce that on the 20th of May 2015 at 9:00, BITMINE AG has been officially declared bankrupt from the local competent court of Bellinzona.

It was publicly known that BITMINE AG was in a difficult situation from several months, but despite our biggest attempts to save the company by restructuring its product and services and seeking for new investments, all without success, left us no other chance than the road to bankruptcy. The accounts, assets and all company documents are now in hands of the Swiss justice and will be under inspection and investigation.

We all, both as former directors of the company and as individuals, make our deepest apologies to the many customers and suppliers that were patiently waiting for a refund or a compensation. As BITMINE AG’s board, we have always acted in our best good faith, within the limits of our skills and in the interests of the company and, therefore, its customers.

We also want to take the opportunity to make clear with everybody that the accusations on the forums are false, we as first have lost all the company’s share capital and several hundreds bitcoins in loans to the company ourselves. This is fully documented on the company registers and is now available to the relevant authorities for inspection.

Why did BITMINE AG go illiquid and eventually bankrupt? The answer to this question can be, in our opinion, divided in the three major issues that affected BITMINE AG:

Bitcoin value and mining difficulty. Everybody knew and was aware that there was a significant risk associated with Bitcoin mining. We have to be honest and face it: if Bitcoin was still valued at well over $1000 like it was in the beginning of 2014, nobody would have tried to cancel his orders and we would all be rich. Unfortunately, the BTC value collapsed constantly since Mt.Gox’s bust and mining difficulty exploded to values that nobody was able to predict at the time we were selling our products. Today, the bitcoin mining market is completely dead and in the hands of a tiny group of major players and the bankruptcy of most of our former competitors is the brightest demonstration that this market collapsed.

Innosilicon. The company that we engaged for the development of our A1 CoinCraft chip ended up in being BITMINE’s biggest failure. We engaged this company with a regular contract and entitled them to develop our 28nm ASIC based on our know-how and instructions, along with the full turnkey process of creating the mask, wafers and IC packaging. We had signed a contract that was expecting to guarantee us a one year exclusivity on the chip, however at a later stage we received proof that Innosilicon was plainly violating the contract from day zero and selling our own A1 chips to whoever inquired them directly. Once we pointed this out, they simply stopped answering our enquiries and disappeared, putting us in obvious panic because we had an extremely tight schedule and obligation to deliver the miners on time and they knew that perfectly. So, once they knew how attractive the market we were into was, they forced us into signing an amendment to the contract where we allowed them to sell the A1 chips to third parties. Additionally, they even forced us to write formal excuse letters for the “false” accusations under the threat that if we hadn’t signed them, they would just delay the supply of the A1 chips so long that they would be worthless.
Once the first production lot of chips, with a delay of nearly two months and a performance 50% worse than promised was delivered to us, the issue of “yield” popped up. Innosilicon repeatedly delivered us broken chips or “junk grade” ones as part of the purchased (and paid for) lots, forcing us to place ever bigger and bigger orders in order to fulfill our customers’ orders and eventually draining out most of the company’s money. Out of all the ordered chips, a huge part of them were simply not working and could only be thrown away in the garbage bin. Here you will see for yourself the pictures of the piles of tens of thousands of worthless junk grade chips still sealed in their original packages. When asked about clarifications, they claimed this was “normal production yield” but failed to provide any relevant document that could certify it. It is also worth mentioning that while we were struggling with thousands of junk chips, the A-grade ones could at all time be purchased in Hong Kong directly from their Chinese resellers, at some point even at lower prices than what we ourselves paid for.
At the end of this horrific experience, we had paid to Innosilicon in 2013 and 2014 a total of more than 8 million CHF but received only a small amount of usable A1 chips, causing us a huge financial loss. Therefore, we enquired two different lawyers in order to evaluate legal actions against them, but ended up with answers that more or less said that the chances of getting our rights respected from a Chinese court against a local Chinese company were close to zero. We only later found out this is a common practice from Chinese companies, regardless of the written agreements you make with them. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_in_China)
Engineering difficulties. There were some difficulties on the engineering side as well. The technical design of the “CoinCraft Rig” was flawed due to its 24V power supply design. Several engineers were hired to counter the issue but this model was production ready only so late that in the meantime we had already replaced most of the Rig orders with Desks. We had also suffered from electrical components’ shortages (DCDC controllers, organic polymers capacitors, MOSFETs, etc.) and where therefore repeatedly forced in delaying our production lots.
 

The most often asked question is: where is my money gone? Why weren’t you simply able to pay back everybody?

Let us expose the financial figures to answer this question. BITMINE AG has sold in 2013 and 2014 a gross total of 12.1M CHF of products in various currencies and forms (Fiat and Bitcoin). Below is a summary of where this money has been paid to and is taken as an excerpt from the company’s official balance sheets and financial records, hence fully documented (the numbers are rounded for reading convenience).

8M paid to Innosilicon for development, masking and production lots of CoinCraft A1 chips.
2.1M paid to major suppliers of electronic components, heatsinks and casings (like Digi-key, Future Electronics, etc.).
0.7M paid for logistics (UPS, DHL, etc.).
0.7M paid to IceMine for the hosting fees of our cloud mining service.
0.6M paid as salaries to the production, management, engineering and support staff (totaling 18 people).
0.4M lost in Mt.Gox’s bankruptcy.
1.4M refunded to customers.
0.5M other running expenses such as rentals, travel expenses, legal expenditures, accounting, marketing and advertising, fuel, etc.
 

With a grand total of 14.4M CHF you may be wondering why this is actually higher than the above-mentioned sales volume. Just remember to add 1M share capital, 0.8M of loans with third parties and 0.6M of self-mined bitcoins in our operations in Iceland. If this last number may seem low to you, please remember that most of the miners in Iceland were offered as compensations to former customers through bitmine.io, leaving us only the smallest part of profits for our own operation.

The second most asked question is whether we were a scam or not. We were not because we have actually delivered a significant amount of our products. Despite all the above mentioned problems, out of the 3500 units that we sold and we got prepaid for, we have delivered to our customers more than 2000 units, all produced in our facilities.  There is a full photographic documentation of our production facility, happy customers picking up their miners and pallets full of miners being picked up by the freight company for shipping.

We acknowledge that this will not bring back your money, but hopefully it will give you an honest view on the reasons why it had been lost.

 

Regards,

The BITMINE AG board of directors
 

ahh at least there are some cool pictures: http://www.bitmine.ch/Pictures/


and this seems to be legit reason, at least for me..