Bitcoin Forum

guys, in bitcoin literally nothing happens if we compare with defi on ethereum. User experience and possibilities there (lending, dexes, pools and so on) are so far ahead.   
the idea of 21kk bitcoins is out of date, no fresh ideas, no fresh blood in devs. And also absolutely centralised infrastructure around (exchanges). Lightening is fucked.   
Bitcoin is one more tool for snx traders. And its price goes exactly according to s&p500. I hardly see reasons to hold the biggest share of my portfolio in bitcoin. Maybe I missed smth, help to get it. Thanks!

This is a bad comparison. Defi are projects on top of the ethereum blockchain and there's no smart contract on the bitcoin blockchain.

If you want to compare, check the activities on github (bitcoin (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin) / ethereum (https://github.com/ethereum/)). I hate to make a comparison but between the two, it seems development on the ethereum blockchain is slower. Just look at how long it's taking to finalize ethereum 2.0 IIRC, they started working on it around 2018.

Meanwhile, two major developments on the bitcoin blockchain are underway (Schnorr signature and Taproot). They could be deployed this year or next year.

When I started reading your post, I thought you were genuinely concerned about the developments of Bitcoin but in the end I realized your concerns are solely related to market value of Bitcoin. If that's the case then you are very wrong to believe that coins like Ethereum have dynamic and organic market just because there are lots of developments going around them. Conversely, any cryptocurrency other than Bitcoin is much more subject to market manipulation. Prices of altcoins hardly depend upon the ecosystem and developments. Rather these are manipulated by the large holders especially since the derivatives have been introduced in crypto market.

Holding Bitcoin is still very profitable due to two reasons, first because most of the market swings of Bitcoin are organic and are the result of genuine market demand/supply. Second, Bitcoin is broadly considered as currency and investment. That's why it doesn't require much developments and releases like other coins. But still there are many companies like Blockstream which are creating great solutions around Bitcoin ecosystem.

That is because bitcoin was created too early.  ;D

What updates are you looking for?
It was almost made in perfection. The actual problem is the usage and not updates.
If merchants will just try to think out of the box with their payment option then you will see it everyday in stores just like VISA and Mastercard posted in their booths.

It's just a manner of time.

If that's what you think about bitcoin, you can make your portfolio cut for altcoins with a larger portion. You talk about how centralized the exchanges are but boasts about Defi of Ethereum. As you know, Ethereum is semi-centralized so that doesn't make sense to compare it bitcoin.
We will remain having our biggest share to bitcoin although we'll also invest to some altcoins like Ethereum because I also think that it's a good crypto. Regarding the comparison of yours, IMO is inappropriate.

Why does new projects and developments translate to that crypto being adopted more? Isn't it not? More often than not this is how crypto devs will try to fool you with their visions, new developments, and roadmaps just for you to think that their project is promising but at the end you won't see these cryptos that they are promoting having no real world us in terms of it being a currency. Look at XRP now where you will see dozens of partnerships with big companies yet you will fail to see it being accepted as a payment more compared to Bitcoin. At least with Bitcoin we have a chance of it being use more with its global presence as well as companies starting to shift their heads with Bitcoin I know that in the future Bitcoin will be a widely accepted currency as payment.

What's so wrong with this? ethereum blockchain was designed to do this. It is true that the growth rate on decentralized finance (Defi) is growing because there are many companies that is adopting a digital finance ecosystem. Besides, blockchain is really to a company whose goal is for transparency especially with finances, so what's wrong with this? comparing it to bitcoin? the reason why bitcoin isn't that much progressive because people love. It is what it is.


Where are Vitalik's word on ethereum v2.0? it seems like that it is getting a longer time.

ok, let's be more specific
Satoshi designed bitcoin as electronic money for all people, for their independence from governments

Now bitcoin is not money at all because of fees and velocity. No ideas how to correct this excepting lightning, which is close to fail.
And bitcoin is actually controlled by centralised agents.
All we have - the moon idea. I do not understand your optimism guys but will be glad if I mistake
 

Electronic cash is correct but I don't remember "independence from Government" is one of his agendas for creating bitcoin. That's definitely one of the benefits of bitcoin but that was not the reason behind creating bitcoin.


LN is not anywhere nearing fail. Around 13000 active nodes are running for LN. If you really want to know its stats, click below,

https://1ml.com/statistics

I do agree that ETH is definitely doing well and creating vast real world applications for future sustainability and bitcoin is lagging majority of such aspects. But we can't disagree to the fact that,  the cryptospace started with bitcoin only. Pioneers always have additional values associated to them and that's what is happening to bitcoin.

Millions of dollars are invested worldwide to set up gigantic bitcoin mining operations. This is what is giving values to bitcoin besides all other aspects.

We must welcome new technologies but that doesn't mean we have to forget our root.

Regardless of the fee and confirmation time, it is a fact that bitcoin is used as a medium of exchange. See 160 Companies that Accept Bitcoin (updated June 2020) (https://paybis.com/blog/companies-that-accept-bitcoin/)

LN is just one of the solutions. I'd rather wait for someone more knowledgeable to discuss this with you.

Who are you referring to? Whales? Miners?
Despite some people holding large bags of BTC, it's still a free market. Anybody can buy from any one. No restrictions whatsoever.
It's also true that there are big miners around but nobody (other than the government) is stopping anyone from mining.

All cryptocurrencies are speculative in nature at the moment but none of them is as secure as bitcoin.

Everyone is actually wondering about smart contracts when Bitcoins DOES support it. Not to that extent of course but yeah .

At the same time I do think we don't need any more developments and such since Bitcoins is actually very simple , very secure , stable and gets the work done just right .

Stable not in comparison to volatility , stable as in people Trust it and therefore it does have value in the market. I do think we should realize that ofcourse ETH have a good development score and such but at the same time Bitcoins have great user support ! Security ! Plus I do think soon enough IF NEEDED we can definitely make some changes in the future . But right now I don't think it is outdated .

Trust+user support is a big thing in the market .

Liquidity is something that Bitcoins win in at the same time we do have limited supply which is way less than ETH so we can see market revolution in the upcoming future.

You sound like a typical beginner who gets hyped by altcoin advertisements and declares that Bitcoin is dead. This has been going on for a while, there are countless coins that claim to be Bitcoin killers, and there's a ton of coins that claim to be Ethereum killers. But guess what, Bitcoin is not only #1, but its dominance keeps growing, because smart investors understand that alts come with a big load of flaws and issues, that they solve problems that no one cares about, that they are insanely centralized.

So, go ahead and sell you BTC, but you will regret it later when alts will keep dying and underperforming while BTC reaches new highs.

One would easily say that bitcoin is low to progress majorly because of the small Satoshi owned but in reality Bitcoin is main gem to hold on to for as a long possible without fear of totally lossing it value.

One should not be carried away with the speedy movements of alts cause quite a lot of them don't have future except for selected few.

All you have to understand than things like this will take time to perfectly cooked and release to the market. You shouldn't think about magic because there is nothing to be like that. You can tell that Bitcoin is too low to progress because there is no instant way to make it the same thing as it happens to Ethereum. You don't need to compare the two coins because they are of different market purposes. Why we should have to hurry on that said development if we are already satisfied with what Bitcoin had brought to us?

Well, I don't want to argue to you if that is what you want but honestly, I don't think we have to need it. What we have needed most by now is the support coming from the community. That be more helping and progressive.

In other words, bitcoin failed to meet your expectations.

The fact that you entirely throw away good facts, it means you are rushing things out.

No need for further technical discussion about this. If you don't want to "trust the process" then it's up to you.

I noticed this some weeks ago, OP, and started to accumulate ethereum since then.

I remember back in 2017 the BCH guys had made a meme about LN, where they said "come back in 18 months". So, much more than 18 months have passed, and LN is still not available to the public, being a geek thing. Not only that, you need to fund a channel to be able to use it, in the same way it happens with ripple, and you need to trust the other part which will link with your channel, thus undermining the trustless idea behind cryptocurrencies. If I have to pay to use it, and I have to trust it, so how is this different from any ordinary bank?

The complications to use it means it is not being used at all, only by the geeks and enthusiasts, who understand how the code work. Bitcoin network is very slow right now, with transactions taking up to three hours, even after paying the maximum fee. This week I had to use replace-by-fee three times, in a transaction which was already paying the maximum fee. It took more than two hours for the btc to arrive at the exchange. If LN was really being used, it would not be that slow.

Bitcoin doesn't have DeFi but it is secured when it comes to transactions due to peer to peer network. ETH has smart contracts which is good for business if you want automation but it lacks security there are tons of news and articles where smart contracts are exploitable. They both have pros and cons but Bitcoin has more demand in Institutional Investors.

This is your problem. I keep doing 1 sat/b transactions just fine. Why can't you just wait? You are doing things wrong if your transfers need to confirm within minutes, as opposed as hours or days.

Bitcoin doesn't really need LN, instant transactions are a minority use case. Most transactions can wait, but you simply are unable to figure it out. If you are a regular customer, why don't you talk to the manager and just keep a tab? Transfer in advance or later, the old fashioned way.

If you think those altcoins are so great, why are you not using them? Why don't you get into the altcoin area and preach the choir there?

The only change I'm waiting in Bitcoin, is when they let us use 0.1 sat/b transfer fees, because even 3¢ is too much and i'm not in a hurry :D

Bitcoin is still faster than wire transfers here, and that's all i need. My country is cashless due to having the worse inflation in the world and we adapt, to live without instant payments.

We do have our own will on what are the things we should involved on.We have our own decisions if he sees that bitcoin is outdated and
rather go to defi then its his choice, no one would be forcing out that he should believe into something if he tries to refuse that bitcoin is better than others.
Yeah, we cant deny that there are features that bitcoin doesnt have that can be seen to other projects but we cant deny that bitcoin do had everything
thats why its mainly supported.

bitcoin is incomparable to others imo  . others  are just too young to compete with btc  , its like they all have thier own gimmicks in the hopes of defeating bitcoin but still not enough  if i were to ask  . come to think if btc is out of date , then why it still the number one  crypto coin that being used by many people  .

if you want to  see new update  , well that happens too recently or idk maybe you just missed that one out    ,  im talking about the halving   .

It looks like you contradict yourself? why are you holding bitcoin in the first place? to make money or what? Defi? Bitcoin is the true "Decentralised Finance", and not Ethereum, in my opinion. What do you mean by the price goes according to s&p500? bitcoin market is stand alone and doesn't have any correlation to those traditional global markets.

Bitcoin's progress for me isn't only depend on its price, but just like what OP indicated, development to new features especially the lightning network. But the question is for what? I see bitcoin transaction is already faster nowadays because of segwit and the transaction fees aren't that high at all. We are still continuously developing over time, but in terms of price, it's quite unpredictable as the demands of the people is the factor to this change. In comparison to another crypto, bitcoin is still the choice of many that is because it doesn't need to be perfect, maybe because bitcoin has something already proven to the public. For me, it is the reliability of the transaction, as well as bitcoin opening lots of opportunity for investment because of it's feature.

Bitcoin is #1 only because of the media and the fact that if you want to buy altcoins then you need to use bitcoin for most of them. Also the support and number of tutorials available for the merchants.

Please, enumerate the flaws and problems your are talking about.

At the moment i think a lot of cryptocurrencies can surpass bitcoin in many ways.

It's obviously clear that bitcoin, defi, ethereum is different, and it's run on the different network too. We don't see fast progress from bitcoin now, especially in the price, but what progress you mean? If you don't like bitcoin, that will be okay, but I like bitcoin very much, and I am sure that people here will also like bitcoin, and they still trying to make more and more bitcoin from many ways. And the bitcoin price now is down, but the price will increase high in the future.

Bitcoin is the only truly decentralized cryptocurrency, you should learn more about such kind of systems in order to grasp why implementations there are happening very slowly and rarely. Do not confuse development with implementation, development is continuing on decentralized basis, everyone is free to contribute and propose anything that might work and may be useful for the network as a whole. But in order to implement something, it first needs to be tested very carefully, it needs to be approved by the most participants of the network, not only developers decide, but also miners, full nodes, users, etc. There are many contributors and developers in the bitcoin network, also young people like Gleb Naumenko who recently was awarded 100k grant from Bitmex https://blog.bitmex.com/bitcoin-developer-grant-provided-to-gleb-naumenko/

Today a lot of people actually know about bitcoin and that accepting it isn't a big hustle in it. But they are afraid of the volatility associated with bitcoin and also the transaction time involved. Most shop owners always double check the amount you paid to them if you pay them on PayPal. But this isn't the same with bitcoins, the funds actually take a lot of time to arrive. I guess shop owners can start accepting payments in other cryptocurrencies like ethereum because of less confirmation time and when the problem with bitcoin transactions is solved then they can also add bitcoins too.

Nothing is instant in this world, we need to help bitcoin to become more known in the community. Supporting it is not that hard, there are a lot of people who are using bitcoin right now, we just need to help it grow more and more. We should make a move in order to contribute on the progress of bitcoin.

Don't say that bitcoin is slow to progress if you're just sitting there and waiting for a miracle to happen. 

With a simple use of bitcoin in many transactions to promote its advantages, we can help each other advertise bitcoin in huge companies. In order to attain that progressive movement, we should always think of the things that might make bitcoin grow more, especially those factors that mostly affect its price.

Honesty, I don't quite understand what do you mean when you say Bitcoin is slow to progress. Slow in price, technology, transactions or something else.
Bitcoin is based on quite advances technology although that doesn't mean there is no room for progress.
Price is defined by market and that can't be much influenced.
However, I think that some people looking for instant solutions but progress doesn't come over night. Maybe if the question was more elaborated it would have been easier to explain.

You are way too wrong my dear and you are doing a wrong comparison. Bitcoin is currently holding ~0.8t usd of the all financial markets and comparing to other markets such as stocks and property with much more older markets and more people and investors knowing about them Bitcoin is not progressing slowly at all.

If you take a look in bitcoin's GitHub repository and check the "commits" part you will see the last changed made to the Bitcoin project and there is always at least 2-3 commits per day helping the project to increase the quality by the time. Also, you can choose to use the centralized exchanged they ask you the KYC or not. For me, Since I started using Bitcoin I never used centralized exchanges.

Most altcoins have inherently unsecure or centralized designs, like PoS, masternodes and big blocks; they have centralized ecosystems when developers can do whatever they want and community will always follow; almost every new altcoin is profit-driven; they are prone to hacking and critical bugs because they have little number of devs; their markets are heavily manipulated because there's very little activity, so it's hard to use them on practice as money; altcons lack adoption because the world doesn't care about the problems that they solve.

If a coin is fundamentally centralized, it doesn't matter if it surpasses Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is the most popular cryptocurrency that a lot of people are using these past few years. For me, bitcoin is the basis of those altcoin when it comes to its value, and it is because bitcoin is the widely used asset in the market. Volatility of bitcoin can really varies in time and you need to deal with its value. That's the reason why other people say Bitcoin is much greater as a store of value than Gold depending on the time.


Altcoins are really just an alternative source of profit and still bitcoin is the number 1 digital currency that is effective to use in many transactions. You should always prioritize the use of bitcoin, and always keep in mind its increase in price once it has an extreme spike in the market. Bitcoin truly has a great future when it comes to cryptocurrency adoption and popularity.

Ethereum was far ahead with smart contracts and Dapps in the past.Now,ETH is far ahead with defi and yet it's still not the number 1 cryptocurrency in the world.There's might be something wrong with ethereum. ;D
The crypto exchanges are centralized,but they have nothing to do with the structure of the Bitcoin Core blockchain.Lightning Network has nothing to do with the blockchain structure as well.
The upcoming Taproot and Schoor soft forks are some proof that the BTC core developers aren't sleeping. ;D
Slower progress is better than fast progress,because the developers would make more mistakes,if they are forcing the speed of new implementations.

 ;D

if you think bitcoin is not good for you then just ignore bitcoin and get on with your life. It makes no sense to make a comparison between bitcoin and other altcoins. there are thousands of altcoins just to offer choice options for people who like different things. There is one thing that you are also not taking into account that it is about decentralization that exists in bitcoin and that does not exist in most altcoins and that is a factor that makes many people use bitcoin. In altcoins we constantly see the owner of altcoin post something on twitter and altcoin goes up in price and there are times when the altcoin owner is simply traveling to all over the world and making empty promises

Patience is an important skill to learn in life.  I mean, honestly, what's the rush here?  Are you in a hurry for some fiat profits?  Sorry, but contrary to popular belief, that's not what Bitcoin was designed for.  I'm not a developer, but I think it's pretty safe to say that making short-term market gains to give you better ROI is definitely not one of the top priorities when it comes to development.  There are loftier goals in mind.  We're building something that will endure.  You can't rush that.

If your sole intent is speculation, then I can see why altcoins would hold a stronger appeal.  Just keep in mind that hype only lasts so long and most of them will disappear as quickly as they came.  People generally have short attention spans and novelty soon wears off.  Know when the time is right to sell and don't end up being a bagholder for dead coins that no one cares about anymore.  That's the risk you take when you try to keep up with the latest trends. 

Personally, I'd keep my focus what actually works and will continue to work because it is developed responsibly, for the right reasons, based on fundamental underlying principles that matter.

thank you for your attention guys! I ve read the exact words I need about bitcoin!

Nothing is perfect, neither is Bitcoin. If bitcoin is too slow to progress, not something that caused me to be leaving bitcoin.
Not without reason until now bitcoin has always dominated the market, even though many altcoins have more transactions
fast and cheap. But the demand for bitcoin is the highest compared to other coins. Many people believe in bitcoin because
it is fully decentralized. Until whenever I'm sure bitcoin will always be the best cryptocurrency. So I never hesitate for
investment in bitcoin.

Its not slow and have plenty of development. And this is wrong for the hodl cult. You dont proper hodl if you can move the coins around.

None of the cryptocurrencies are really decentralized, even bitcoin. If you have 1% of the users holding 99% of the supply, then its not decentralized. And if you have whales manipulating the market, to accumulate even more, then you have increased centralization of supply. You can say the tech is decentralized, but if the supply is not, people will not use the tech.

The exchanges are to blame for it, as they allow the centralization of supply. A exchange with only 5btc in the last 24 hours dont have any issue when 100btc enter in just one account and burn the entire book. Its good for them, as they will get more money from fees, but this hurts the project, as a lot of people will have their money stolen, and many of them will not come back to bitcoin after the crash.

Probably you need to read this article:  Why was Bitcoin created? (https://medium.com/bitcoin-blockchain-explained/why-was-bitcoin-created-20ab3a65d952).  It was said that Satoshi Nakamoto wanted to create a trust-less cash system not to have independence from the government.


It seems you do not understand what money is...



Err... isn't ETH is the one controlled by centralized agents?  They can easily fork and rewrite blockchain once the founder/creator decided that it should be done? 

Well, there is not much that we can do to modify the bitcoin network looking at how robust it was designed. Currently, all eyes are on the developments of Lighting Network to accelerate the speed of confirming transactions on the bitcoin network. I would advise you to stick with Ethereum if you want to accelerate your transactions.

The thing is, all these altcoins were created after Bitcoin and as usual the last will always see the things that are not perfect with the first product and they will try to add more features.

I think that when Bitcoin was being created, the main thing they had in mind was just transaction and they were not really looking more into other features. Even though the transaction is a bit slow than others, there is still nothing wrong with it. Others were able to identify the few faults it had and then used it to perfect their own projects.

Nothing is perfect!

This is why other developers would try to create to much better and more updated coin.This isnt only talking in cryptos side
but this had been happening since from the beginning of time since its part of our instinct to create something better on where
others had already done but we cant really avoid the fact that first things that had pop out would always took the spot light
even no matter how many much better alternatives out there.

^ Definitely right, for over 10 years of being existed of bitcoin we can see that it is always on the top and no one alternative coins were defeating bitcoin even it has slow progress. The way of payment method always reliable even though we know that the fees and the speed is quite different from altcoins.
Nevertheless, I dont see any altcoin that the best alternative to bitcoin. Probably the uniqueness on bitcoin will always put on the top and many developers who have to try to have improved because it is an open-source system.

Bitcoin is more or less 11 years now, from the start until now it has some huge progress, maybe slow but huge. What do you think if bitcoin does not exist? Will Ethereum exist now? Of course, altcoins have more features than bitcoin, honestly better than bitcoin technically, it is faster, with smart contract features and other stuff. It is designed to be better than bitcoin and with specific use cases but bitcoin is the king.

Seems like we are to slow to progress to earn full profit from our using of Bitcoin.
How much fast you want it to be. Bitcoin itself is a progressive mecanism which operates based on the progressive knowledge of its users. With the increase of adoption among more and more users around the world, bitcoin is enriched by more useful adds to maintain his ability to adopt with all our needs for security,anonymity...

Many here posted their own opinions already. Just do this. SELL YOUR BITCOIN, HOLD A SHITCOIN AND
https://pics.me.me/get-the-fuck-outta-here-~-potato-guy-8040103.png

If you don't want Bitcoin then just leave. Simple as that. No need for further explanations. Ethereum and Bitcoin are 2 different coins and they are good in their own ways. If you don't want to buy Bitcoin, just buy TRX since the owner it self already that it is a shitcoin like you, pure shit.
https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/1226739014910255104/pu/img/VMJJQv-0ZCSokK8b.jpg

Bitcoin is the most popular coin and nothing can be compared to bitcoin. With the range that the bitcoin has achieved it is hard to compete with. Many cryptocurrencies are making things to encourage people and defeat bitcoin. They are trying to launch gimmicks. Many people are saying that bitcoin is not up to date but still many people are using and supporting bitcoin.
When we talk about the halving and you want to see updates about it you just have to scroll about it because it just happened recently. Most of the time people is just missing the upates.
Some cryptocurrencies are modeled from bitcoin. These are called alternative cryptocurrencies which are much easier to trade and mine than bitcoin. Bitcoin and alternative coins are all virtual or electronic money.