seems like bitcoin is too slow to progress

[creep1980]

guys, in bitcoin literally nothing happens if we compare with defi on ethereum. User experience and possibilities there (lending, dexes, pools and so on) are so far ahead.   
the idea of 21kk bitcoins is out of date, no fresh ideas, no fresh blood in devs. And also absolutely centralised infrastructure around (exchanges). Lightening is fucked.   
Bitcoin is one more tool for snx traders. And its price goes exactly according to s&p500. I hardly see reasons to hold the biggest share of my portfolio in bitcoin. Maybe I missed smth, help to get it. Thanks!

[Bttzed03]

guys, in bitcoin literally nothing happens if we compare with defi on ethereum. User experience and possibilities there (lending, dexes, pools and so on) are so far ahead.  

This is a bad comparison. Defi are projects on top of the ethereum blockchain and there's no smart contract on the bitcoin blockchain.

If you want to compare, check the activities on github (bitcoin / ethereum). I hate to make a comparison but between the two, it seems development on the ethereum blockchain is slower. Just look at how long it's taking to finalize ethereum 2.0 IIRC, they started working on it around 2018.

Meanwhile, two major developments on the bitcoin blockchain are underway (Schnorr signature and Taproot). They could be deployed this year or next year.

[webtricks]

guys, in bitcoin literally nothing happens if we compare with defi on ethereum. User experience and possibilities there (lending, dexes, pools and so on) are so far ahead.   
the idea of 21kk bitcoins is out of date, no fresh ideas, no fresh blood in devs. And also absolutely centralised infrastructure around (exchanges). Lightening is fucked.   
Bitcoin is one more tool for snx traders. And its price goes exactly according to s&p500. I hardly see reasons to hold the biggest share of my portfolio in bitcoin. Maybe I missed smth, help to get it. Thanks!

When I started reading your post, I thought you were genuinely concerned about the developments of Bitcoin but in the end I realized your concerns are solely related to market value of Bitcoin. If that's the case then you are very wrong to believe that coins like Ethereum have dynamic and organic market just because there are lots of developments going around them. Conversely, any cryptocurrency other than Bitcoin is much more subject to market manipulation. Prices of altcoins hardly depend upon the ecosystem and developments. Rather these are manipulated by the large holders especially since the derivatives have been introduced in crypto market.

Holding Bitcoin is still very profitable due to two reasons, first because most of the market swings of Bitcoin are organic and are the result of genuine market demand/supply. Second, Bitcoin is broadly considered as currency and investment. That's why it doesn't require much developments and releases like other coins. But still there are many companies like Blockstream which are creating great solutions around Bitcoin ecosystem.

[danherbias07]

That is because bitcoin was created too early. 

What updates are you looking for?
It was almost made in perfection. The actual problem is the usage and not updates.
If merchants will just try to think out of the box with their payment option then you will see it everyday in stores just like VISA and Mastercard posted in their booths.

It's just a manner of time.

[blockman]

If that's what you think about bitcoin, you can make your portfolio cut for altcoins with a larger portion. You talk about how centralized the exchanges are but boasts about Defi of Ethereum. As you know, Ethereum is semi-centralized so that doesn't make sense to compare it bitcoin.
We will remain having our biggest share to bitcoin although we'll also invest to some altcoins like Ethereum because I also think that it's a good crypto. Regarding the comparison of yours, IMO is inappropriate.

[Harlot]

Why does new projects and developments translate to that crypto being adopted more? Isn't it not? More often than not this is how crypto devs will try to fool you with their visions, new developments, and roadmaps just for you to think that their project is promising but at the end you won't see these cryptos that they are promoting having no real world us in terms of it being a currency. Look at XRP now where you will see dozens of partnerships with big companies yet you will fail to see it being accepted as a payment more compared to Bitcoin. At least with Bitcoin we have a chance of it being use more with its global presence as well as companies starting to shift their heads with Bitcoin I know that in the future Bitcoin will be a widely accepted currency as payment.

[Sanugarid]

What's so wrong with this? ethereum blockchain was designed to do this. It is true that the growth rate on decentralized finance (Defi) is growing because there are many companies that is adopting a digital finance ecosystem. Besides, blockchain is really to a company whose goal is for transparency especially with finances, so what's wrong with this? comparing it to bitcoin? the reason why bitcoin isn't that much progressive because people love. It is what it is.


Where are Vitalik's word on ethereum v2.0? it seems like that it is getting a longer time.

[creep1980]

ok, let's be more specific
Satoshi designed bitcoin as electronic money for all people, for their independence from governments

Now bitcoin is not money at all because of fees and velocity. No ideas how to correct this excepting lightning, which is close to fail.
And bitcoin is actually controlled by centralised agents.
All we have - the moon idea. I do not understand your optimism guys but will be glad if I mistake
 

[avikz]

ok, let's be more specific
Satoshi designed bitcoin as electronic money for all people, for their independence from governments

Electronic cash is correct but I don't remember "independence from Government" is one of his agendas for creating bitcoin. That's definitely one of the benefits of bitcoin but that was not the reason behind creating bitcoin.

Now bitcoin is not money at all because of fees and velocity. No ideas how to correct this excepting lightning, which is close to fail.
And bitcoin is actually controlled by centralised agents.
All we have - the moon idea. I do not understand your optimism guys but will be glad if I mistake

LN is not anywhere nearing fail. Around 13000 active nodes are running for LN. If you really want to know its stats, click below,

https://1ml.com/statistics

I do agree that ETH is definitely doing well and creating vast real world applications for future sustainability and bitcoin is lagging majority of such aspects. But we can't disagree to the fact that,  the cryptospace started with bitcoin only. Pioneers always have additional values associated to them and that's what is happening to bitcoin.

Millions of dollars are invested worldwide to set up gigantic bitcoin mining operations. This is what is giving values to bitcoin besides all other aspects.

We must welcome new technologies but that doesn't mean we have to forget our root.

[Bttzed03]

~ Now bitcoin is not money at all because of fees and velocity.

Regardless of the fee and confirmation time, it is a fact that bitcoin is used as a medium of exchange. See 160 Companies that Accept Bitcoin (updated June 2020)

No ideas how to correct this excepting lightning, which is close to fail.

LN is just one of the solutions. I'd rather wait for someone more knowledgeable to discuss this with you.

And bitcoin is actually controlled by centralised agents.

Who are you referring to? Whales? Miners?
Despite some people holding large bags of BTC, it's still a free market. Anybody can buy from any one. No restrictions whatsoever.
It's also true that there are big miners around but nobody (other than the government) is stopping anyone from mining.

All we have - the moon idea. I do not understand your optimism guys but will be glad if I mistake

All cryptocurrencies are speculative in nature at the moment but none of them is as secure as bitcoin.

[fiulpro]

Everyone is actually wondering about smart contracts when Bitcoins DOES support it. Not to that extent of course but yeah .

At the same time I do think we don't need any more developments and such since Bitcoins is actually very simple , very secure , stable and gets the work done just right .

Stable not in comparison to volatility , stable as in people Trust it and therefore it does have value in the market. I do think we should realize that ofcourse ETH have a good development score and such but at the same time Bitcoins have great user support ! Security ! Plus I do think soon enough IF NEEDED we can definitely make some changes in the future . But right now I don't think it is outdated .

Trust+user support is a big thing in the market .

Liquidity is something that Bitcoins win in at the same time we do have limited supply which is way less than ETH so we can see market revolution in the upcoming future.

[hatshepsut93]

guys, in bitcoin literally nothing happens if we compare with defi on ethereum. User experience and possibilities there (lending, dexes, pools and so on) are so far ahead.  
the idea of 21kk bitcoins is out of date, no fresh ideas, no fresh blood in devs. And also absolutely centralised infrastructure around (exchanges). Lightening is fucked.  
Bitcoin is one more tool for snx traders. And its price goes exactly according to s&p500. I hardly see reasons to hold the biggest share of my portfolio in bitcoin. Maybe I missed smth, help to get it. Thanks!

You sound like a typical beginner who gets hyped by altcoin advertisements and declares that Bitcoin is dead. This has been going on for a while, there are countless coins that claim to be Bitcoin killers, and there's a ton of coins that claim to be Ethereum killers. But guess what, Bitcoin is not only #1, but its dominance keeps growing, because smart investors understand that alts come with a big load of flaws and issues, that they solve problems that no one cares about, that they are insanely centralized.

So, go ahead and sell you BTC, but you will regret it later when alts will keep dying and underperforming while BTC reaches new highs.

[Ashes4Beauty]

One would easily say that bitcoin is low to progress majorly because of the small Satoshi owned but in reality Bitcoin is main gem to hold on to for as a long possible without fear of totally lossing it value.

One should not be carried away with the speedy movements of alts cause quite a lot of them don't have future except for selected few.

[Yamifoud]

All you have to understand than things like this will take time to perfectly cooked and release to the market. You shouldn't think about magic because there is nothing to be like that. You can tell that Bitcoin is too low to progress because there is no instant way to make it the same thing as it happens to Ethereum. You don't need to compare the two coins because they are of different market purposes. Why we should have to hurry on that said development if we are already satisfied with what Bitcoin had brought to us?

Well, I don't want to argue to you if that is what you want but honestly, I don't think we have to need it. What we have needed most by now is the support coming from the community. That be more helping and progressive.

[harizen]

guys, in bitcoin literally nothing happens if we compare with defi on ethereum. User experience and possibilities there (lending, dexes, pools and so on) are so far ahead.   
the idea of 21kk bitcoins is out of date, no fresh ideas, no fresh blood in devs. And also absolutely centralised infrastructure around (exchanges). Lightening is fucked.   
Bitcoin is one more tool for snx traders. And its price goes exactly according to s&p500. I hardly see reasons to hold the biggest share of my portfolio in bitcoin. Maybe I missed smth, help to get it. Thanks!

In other words, bitcoin failed to meet your expectations.

The fact that you entirely throw away good facts, it means you are rushing things out.

No need for further technical discussion about this. If you don't want to "trust the process" then it's up to you.

[fabiorem]

I noticed this some weeks ago, OP, and started to accumulate ethereum since then.

I remember back in 2017 the BCH guys had made a meme about LN, where they said "come back in 18 months". So, much more than 18 months have passed, and LN is still not available to the public, being a geek thing. Not only that, you need to fund a channel to be able to use it, in the same way it happens with ripple, and you need to trust the other part which will link with your channel, thus undermining the trustless idea behind cryptocurrencies. If I have to pay to use it, and I have to trust it, so how is this different from any ordinary bank?

The complications to use it means it is not being used at all, only by the geeks and enthusiasts, who understand how the code work. Bitcoin network is very slow right now, with transactions taking up to three hours, even after paying the maximum fee. This week I had to use replace-by-fee three times, in a transaction which was already paying the maximum fee. It took more than two hours for the btc to arrive at the exchange. If LN was really being used, it would not be that slow.

[Sadlife]

Bitcoin doesn't have DeFi but it is secured when it comes to transactions due to peer to peer network. ETH has smart contracts which is good for business if you want automation but it lacks security there are tons of news and articles where smart contracts are exploitable. They both have pros and cons but Bitcoin has more demand in Institutional Investors.

[Artemis3]

I noticed this some weeks ago, OP, and started to accumulate ethereum since then.

I remember back in 2017 the BCH guys had made a meme about LN, where they said "come back in 18 months". So, much more than 18 months have passed, and LN is still not available to the public, being a geek thing. Not only that, you need to fund a channel to be able to use it, in the same way it happens with ripple, and you need to trust the other part which will link with your channel, thus undermining the trustless idea behind cryptocurrencies. If I have to pay to use it, and I have to trust it, so how is this different from any ordinary bank?

The complications to use it means it is not being used at all, only by the geeks and enthusiasts, who understand how the code work. Bitcoin network is very slow right now, with transactions taking up to three hours, even after paying the maximum fee. This week I had to use replace-by-fee three times, in a transaction which was already paying the maximum fee. It took more than two hours for the btc to arrive at the exchange. If LN was really being used, it would not be that slow.

This is your problem. I keep doing 1 sat/b transactions just fine. Why can't you just wait? You are doing things wrong if your transfers need to confirm within minutes, as opposed as hours or days.

Bitcoin doesn't really need LN, instant transactions are a minority use case. Most transactions can wait, but you simply are unable to figure it out. If you are a regular customer, why don't you talk to the manager and just keep a tab? Transfer in advance or later, the old fashioned way.

If you think those altcoins are so great, why are you not using them? Why don't you get into the altcoin area and preach the choir there?

The only change I'm waiting in Bitcoin, is when they let us use 0.1 sat/b transfer fees, because even 3¢ is too much and i'm not in a hurry

Bitcoin is still faster than wire transfers here, and that's all i need. My country is cashless due to having the worse inflation in the world and we adapt, to live without instant payments.

[dunfida]

guys, in bitcoin literally nothing happens if we compare with defi on ethereum. User experience and possibilities there (lending, dexes, pools and so on) are so far ahead.   
the idea of 21kk bitcoins is out of date, no fresh ideas, no fresh blood in devs. And also absolutely centralised infrastructure around (exchanges). Lightening is fucked.   
Bitcoin is one more tool for snx traders. And its price goes exactly according to s&p500. I hardly see reasons to hold the biggest share of my portfolio in bitcoin. Maybe I missed smth, help to get it. Thanks!

In other words, bitcoin failed to meet your expectations.

The fact that you entirely throw away good facts, it means you are rushing things out.

No need for further technical discussion about this. If you don't want to "trust the process" then it's up to you.

We do have our own will on what are the things we should involved on.We have our own decisions if he sees that bitcoin is outdated and
rather go to defi then its his choice, no one would be forcing out that he should believe into something if he tries to refuse that bitcoin is better than others.
Yeah, we cant deny that there are features that bitcoin doesnt have that can be seen to other projects but we cant deny that bitcoin do had everything
thats why its mainly supported.

[shoreno]

bitcoin is incomparable to others imo  . others  are just too young to compete with btc  , its like they all have thier own gimmicks in the hopes of defeating bitcoin but still not enough  if i were to ask  . come to think if btc is out of date , then why it still the number one  crypto coin that being used by many people  .

if you want to  see new update  , well that happens too recently or idk maybe you just missed that one out    ,  im talking about the halving   .