Bitcoin Forum

What happened:
User:elmanchez approached me on telegram asking to buy my btc using his paypal fund
I asked him to send his btc wallet from btc talk PM to prove his ID, which he did, and I made BTC transfer also respond his pm with my paypal asking for payment, next thing I know he delete all our conversation on telegram.

Now he is denying everything, saying I got scammed by a imposter.

Scammers Profile Link:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2553198

Amount Scammed: 0.0092 BTC/$85
Payment Method: Bitcoins


PM/Chat Logs:
(No subject)
« Sent to: lexitark on: Today at 12:08:39 AM »
« You have forwarded or responded to this message. »
   Reply with quoteQuote ReplyReply Remove this messageDelete
329nTARJcTHsUQEKVarYtpBbK89N5gLBns

Additional Notes: I advise you to not deal with this user until this dispute is resolved.

What is the TxID? Please post it in here. Also, if you are okay to share the PM with me then feel free to forward the PM to me. I need to see the original PM.
The accused user seems to have some good trade history to be honest. It's hard to make a conclusion based on the things you posted.

Quoting for reference:

Thats right. This will show proof that you send btc on his used address. Its pretty hard to believe that @elmanchez would scam you for merely $85 which that guy known for doing a free service 🔥🔥 FREE DESIGNER FEEL FREE TO ASK 🔥🔥 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5205348.0)


Also regarding PM messages. If it has been deleted nothing we can do unless theymos will take care of it. But according to this How to recover delete messages (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2037151.0) the matter will take a lot of works.

his wallet
329nTARJcTHsUQEKVarYtpBbK89N5gLBns

https://ibb.co/5vmZ3XD
https://ibb.co/nmrgB7h

On the blockchain one tx matches close to your time which is https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/f91f97f0bbf50d5d066af81f477a017adbbbea31e1f08f95f1419f30563a7503

But if I add the fees and the sent amount then it totals 0.00934134 BTC

The amount sent to that address was 0.00938700 BTC where the fees was 0.00014134 BTC
And unfortunately it does not match your description.

I not sure if I am missing anything.

Can you forward me the PM if possible?

he and i use localbitcoin wallet, which doesnt show up in blockchain, all internal transfer without fees

This is a big mistake: Telegram is scammer's paradise with instant name changes and the possibility to delete the other user's chat history.

That's a smart thing to do.

That would be my assumption too. I'd like to verify the PM.

Forwarding a PM doesn't prove authenticity.
There are 2 methods:
1. Report the PM to Admin and ask him to confirm here. Hilariousandco has done that before.
2. Change your password, share your account with someone trusted, have them verify the PM, and change your password again. I've confirmed a PM by this method for a user before. If you do this, by all means, stake an address (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=996318.0) first.

That's another mistake, if there was no real Bitcoin transaction and you can't prove the accusation, maybe localbitcoins can help you.
There have been cases in which a Bitcointalk account got compromised, and the attacker only used it to scam by PM. @elmanchez: can you check https://bitcointalk.org/myips.php to see if anything is wrong?

A person wrote to me that he wants to change BTC to WMZ , and I sent him a screenshot and a link to my profile in my address.
He said I would have to send dengyi to this address.
I said that I would send everything after he sent me WMZ and I agreed, the deal was for $ 22.
As proof, he asked me to send this address to him in a private message to prove that my account (sufficiently trusted to send $ 22 first) and threw the link of this guy, I did it (after that, he blocked me). In my personal message, I specified only the address and nothing more, but I can't use PayPal anymore and I haven't used it before.
It's just that a fraudster used me to trick him. Maybe it was one of the people I talk to. My telegram account is @elmanchez and no other.

It turns out that I am to blame for this.
Here is the telegram of the man who deceived us and me in the same way, @Cexius

It is impossible to prove my guilt in this situation, I agree, but my PM was not provided, I made a mistake.

Since I play a role in this, I will pay you back in the near future, as soon as I pay my debts on the forum. although I have nothing to do with it. I only use 1-2 addresses on this forum.
The situation is terrible, and I was completely surprised to read a message from you in the form of " Send me my $ 90"

It would be stupid to go to your tsele, as well as to DT2 and be active on the forum, which would spoil everything because of 0.009 btc

/// but this is alarming.. I don't see any transactions for this address today..



All clear.. Although... someone join to my profile from New York, but it's not today. lol

For as long that you didn't received BTC on your wallet address that you provide via PM then you don't have responsibility to pay it back to him since this is an obvious scam attempt. The OP must be cautious when trading especially when the transaction happened outside the forum.

Don't be afraid on losing DT2 title for this scenario because if you give up then they will keep doing this kind of scheme to other DT.

To be clear, is this what happened?

• John Doe: Hi, my addy is 3xx, please PM this addy to lexitark.
• You did as requested, sending someone else's address in a PM to a third person.

If that's what happened, that was dumb (to say the least) O0

It looks like it :(

I'm confused: did you or did you not PM someone else's address to lexitark?

Scammers are getting very creative :o

OP claims it was a localbitcoins "internal" transaction. I'm not sure how he can prove this even happened. Bitcoin is supposed to be trustless, this is not.

This link shows all IP addressed used to login to account in the last 30 days. If you used a VPN from New York it's okay, if you didn't use that, it means someone else did.

Scammers will keep doing this with or without elmanchez paying back the victim.  It's nice that elmanchez wants to correct mistakes he made, and if he really sent a PM with just someone else's Bitcoin address, he helped the scammer scam an innocent victim who took all precautions.
Of course it's better to only deal with addresses provided within a message signed from a staked address, but I must admit I've made deals without doing that too. If I send someone a PM with a Bitcoin address, they expect me to be the owner.

I will take care of the vein and try to return the funds.
The other day, I was also cheated out of $ 300 (but this was done by a person with whom I had exchanged several times before.) , which I wanted to use to pay off the debt.. I'm in a bad place right now, it's all about money.. I don't know what to do now, I hope everything will improve.

If someone wants to give me a negative review, you can do it until I solve this problem.



I didn't even check his posts or the real telegram, but just did what he asked.
After 5 minutes of communication in the telegram, he asked to do this, I did not find anything suspicious about it (I proved the presence of my real account)

It's just something I've never encountered before.


1. Scammer adds a person to the telegram who sells (some newbie) Puts a similar nickname

2. Adds a more trusted user to telegram

3. Says that he will send the feather what he needs

4. Asks to confirm the authenticity of the account by sending him a message (or address as in my case)

5. Receives money and blocks both.

Ingeniously


If the pamynet/tx is proven, please let me know. I will refund the funds.


/// I don't understand why I got all this, is it karma?

Surprised to such scam trick, wondering if elmanchez himself doing the trick (just a guess). The story is not enough proving that elmanchez was trick. There's someone playing the game behind, may be elmanchez or may be OP himself did the trick.
I have been contacted by a few people through telegram long ago and I asked everyone to verify through bitcointalk, lucky that I was not scammed.

Slightly late, but still: you should be more careful! I use exchanges whenever I can instead of person to person trading. As long as you don't keep funds on exchanges for a long time, I think it's safer.


It's a triangle scam, I've seen them before (but never experienced it myself):
A wants to buy something
B wants to sell something
C pretends to be A when talking to B, and B when talking to A. When A thinks he's paying B, he's actually paying C. Or, when B thinks he's sending the item to A, he's actually sending to C.
In the end, A and/or B get scammed, and C disappears.

---

---

I see no reason to believe this.

Even when asking to verify, you'll have to be careful for the triangle scam. Just saying "yes it's me" on Bitcointalk isn't enough, you'll have to include and verify usernames. Or a signed/staked message that clearly states the purpose of the deal, including addresses and details.
It's safer to just discuss deals on Bitcointalk.

Not long ago I was nearly caught on this triangle scam on telegram. Someone wanted a loan and they had collateral. He was pretending that he needs an escrow to send the collateral as he does not trust me. So we agreed on DarkStar_. Dark was added in a group chat and while we were chatting the scammer created another group and I did not realize that I was chatting with him on that fake group with fake DarkStar_ until he asked me something which seemed a red flag to me. I then checked carefully and figured that it was not Dark then confirmed it with Dark too.

My experience helped me to save me by getting scammed in this triangle trick.

I think I have started to believe that elmanchez is a victim here, I guess.

This is very tricky especially when you are not focus on telegram chat all the time and scammer was slow to reply. This trick might work on me if ever I deal with them in telegram since I was always busy on my business. The good thing on my part was I never deal huge amount of money in telegram especially when it was a loan. I always do it in the forum so no one can trick me.

I'm just using telegram for buying cheap products here in marketplace so it will be easier for the negotiation. I think this issue was already over since elmanchez already have a closure about the case.

Sorry everyone but it seems I really need to talk here after having a serious investigation. User lexitark approached me on my PM and then we connected in Telegram. He showed me the internal transaction in localbitcoins in a recorded video. I can not share it in here since it's his request not to share it with anyone and I agreed.

My conclusion is that lexitark sent the btc to the said address:

And this address was sent by elmanchez which he (elmanchez) admitted.

Since the mistake (I hope it really was) was from you and you said above (if proven then you will refund) then I think you owe lexitark 0.0092 BTC/$85.

I am sorry if you are a victim here but from my investigation turns out this is a reality in here. I am open to here your defence if you have any. Feel free to approach me like lexitark did.

---

Also, there are some mismatch in the post elmanchez made in his first response:

Means elmanchez is buying BTC.

Means elmanchez is receiving WMZ

@elmanchez, can you explain?

There may have been a slight misunderstanding...

I bought WMZ and already did a couple of posts about it on the forum in  currency exchange board.
If @Royse777 confirms the transaction... I have no choice but to pay my personal money. I'll need some time.


Contact me via telegram @lexitark , or sent me BTC adress in PM, i will pay once i will got some money...

I already concluded that the evidences were clear to me that lexitark has sent the BTC to the address you admitted that you PMed. Now if you can prove to me that you have been trapped by some third party then please feel free to come up with your defense.

After all these, I would suggest do everything on the forum instead of Telegram or any other platform.

I suggest to post the address in this thread.

What a way of scamming and how intelligent the scammer. I see the thread yesterday but have not enough time to read because of busy irl. So what I understand elmanchez did a careless job by sending the BTC address requested by a stranger. And something is suspicious to me who actually the scammer. And I am thinking if the OP planned this way to scam. It's really possible.

btw I am agee with Loycev that BTC address should be posted here in this thread.

@Royse777 thanks for you help

for those who still believe I am behind this, you have no idea how hard it was to prove a localbitcoin internal transfer that has no TXID

I reached out at least 10 legendary members for the last 2 days, asking them to verify my transaction, I would do it on team viewer, discord, video etc, let them have complete access to my exchange account, most of them turn me down, they said it is too risk for them to open in team viewer, I almost fail until @Royse777 agreed last night

If I had planed it why did I even use lbc internal transfer that is so hard to prove? will a scammer give someone access to his exchange wallet? which is real name verified

I didn't know it was a lbc wallet until i made transfer, whoever planned this was counting on that I can't prove a internal transfer

let me get this straight

2 stories

mine:

Elmanchez contacted me on telegram saying he wants to buy my btc, and because he has good trading history, I should send him btc first, I said Ok, but PM your wallet from btc talk so I know it is your wallet
I believe that is how most people do exchange here

elmancez:


So elmancez wants this person to pay him WMZ first, then should elmancez pm a WMZ wallet to me if he want me to pay him WMZ? why did he PM me a btc wallet? does this story and action seems too odd to you people? not mention he sent someone else wallet to me

This looks tricky.

But it was the impersonators own BTC address, which he asked Elmanchez to send him through bitcointalk PM to verify.

I've never used localbitcoins, so I don't know how it looks, but doesn't it tell you it's an "internal" transaction?

This is confusing. Assuming it's a triangle scam, the scammer has his (your) money already. The scammer doesn't care if you can prove anything to elmanchez, because it's now only between the 2 victims.

Although the story was quite complicated to understand but I have read it multiple times. So what I understand someone had asked to @elmanchez for send btc address to OP bitcointalk profile. Since @Royse777 have verified OP claim and @elmanchez admitted that he has sent btc address to OP, so mistake happened by @elmanchez. Most likely scammer dealing with both of them (with OP & elmanchez).

@elmanchez, you shouldn't simply sent someone else bitcoin address to other user. You should write your own message like about what are you going to deal and how. You have no way to prove yourself innocent on this case. You are the one who is responsible for it.

Conclusion; My personal view on this case is @elmanchez have to pay somehow. Either he will ended up with negative feedback since there is no chances to prove innocent because telegram chat isn't enough to prove. Or he have to pay fund lost by OP due to sent PM.

I can understand OP & elmanchez both of them are victim, there is no other solution if @elmanchez unable to prove him innocent.

The entire conversation would be so much easier to assess if it would be a public topic on Bitcointalk! Now it's screenshots taken from scammer paradise Telegram and screenshots taken from PMs. It makes it very hard to follow, and the screenshots don't prove anything.

I helped elmanchez with a small trade with a few weeks back. The details are all public (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5252054.0). Posts deleted? See http://loyce.club/archive/details/topic_5252054.html !

Forget about Telegram, use the forum! If anything, it makes collecting evidence easier.

I was already amazed at how the scammer pulled this out. Why would you send someone else BTC address to someone who you want to pay you? elmanchez story is something I may not believe. If the PMs not going to be for public then I'd like it to happen that he would pay the amount back for good faith.

Ready payback from my signed adress, agree with my mistake.
Post adress

build your own topic, don't hijack mine

I am willing to forgive @elmanchez if he pay back my lost
then my matter is closed

18mZHD4TB17rHdTbK4BzqK1mGYXM9tLcfS

0.0092btc to my wallet

I am not hijacking you idiot but anyways good luck

Email change does not mean he is a scammer. anybody can change the email address if need. but most of the case email is changed when the account is brought. Again scammer is trying many ways to scam people. Telegram is one of the best ways. So any scammer can knock you in telegram and are you telling about the profile screenshots? it is like a kid's lollipop. If you trust just seeing the profile screenshots then the mistake is yours.

BTW I see the profile screenshot that you provided in the op. My question to you all that there is any feature where I can see the DT position in my profile? I did not see it before.

https://i.postimg.cc/tJHwvR1S/Screenshot-34.jpg

Edit: Got it. It’s a chrome extension.  


Edit 2: elmanchez what is your telegram id? / @AceBig this is you telegram id?

I am seeing something wrong again about elmanchez

@lexitark, I do not think orangelemon was hijacking your thread, but he was just sharing an experience in here.

I stoped using telegram already 3 days.

Ammout will be paid within 3-4 hours.

ok, When I was made this post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5256818.msg54668257#msg54668257) in this thread I received a pm in my telegram after 5-10 minutes of posting.


The telegram username is: @AceBig which is used here: http://loyce.club/archive/posts/5465/54657189.html by bitcointalk user: AceBig (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2821000)

So if you don't use telegram that means you did not pm me. Then the man who PMed me in telegram will be someone who Trust irfan_pak10 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=350580) > http://loyce.club/trust/2020-06-20_Sat_05.04h/350580.html
or
Yaunfitda (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=665441) (It is not visible in loyce trust list viewer ) because if you see closely the first screenshot then you can see my green trust score is +4 But when you see my trust by default trust you will see it +3

Anyone can say they're elmanchez (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2553198) on Telegram.

I asked @AceBig on Telegram:

Response

Needless to say, I didn't receive a PM. AceBig can't proof he's elmanchez. If he claims to be elmanchez, it's safe to assume he's lying.

Yes, I know anyone can tell like that. But Confusing thinks is when I see the 1st screenshot that I provided, my trust score was showing +4. That means someone take the screenshot who is using own (manual) trust list.
Yes, the user maybe not the elmanchez but he is someone who is reading this thread actively.

Edit: wow just see the telegram chat history is deleted by the @AceBig, looks something suspicious  :)

Oh wait, I was surprised to see my name here, I don't have any prior knowledge of any persons involved here (PM or anything). It is not visible in Loyce trust viewer because I don't have any custom trust list.

So kindly remove my name in this conversation, Thanks.

Edit: I don't have any Telegram as well.

Ha ha. You can not get my point dear, nothing wrong have said about you. I just tried to explain and gave some idea of the user who is. Don’t worry about it.

Btw @elmanchez don't make this mistake in the future and try to avoid telegram deal. And when you pay the Op post it here then OP should lock this thread.

I've been reluctant to respond to this thread because I'm biased.  I like elmanchez, I think he's a good kid.  He and I have had regular communications on Telegram for several months now, and I'd like to think that I've gotten some insight into his personality.  I trust he'll do the right thing.

I do have something to add though; I don't believe that @AceBig is elmanchez.  Last week, before he deleted his Telegram account, elmanchez told me he had been scammed by Telegram user @Cexius.  I checked the username to see if I had any history with it, but nothing came up.  However, I did notice his peculiar bio:


I didn't take a screenshot of @Cexius' profile page, and that username doesn't bring up any results on Telegram anymore, so you'll have to take my word for it.  Interestingly enough, the bio for @AceBig has the same text, leading me to believe that @Cexius and @AceBig are one and the same.

https://i.ibb.co/K5z5PzB/Capture.png (https://i.ibb.co/K5z5PzB/Capture.png)

He made a naive mistake, scammers prey on innocent people.

The moment @AceBig was pretending to be someone he's not, it was obvious he's up to no good. Unfortunately Telegram seems to be designed to aid scammers.

I am also reluctant but he wants to correct his error elmanchez has created me a free logo for my Youtube channel and has done it in just 2 hours, my perception of him is he is a good person but I could be wrong I hope he gets out of this mess, this is some new ways of scamming people glad I read it and will take note of this.

elmanchez PM a couple of days ago, saying he has difficulty come up with the money to pay me, asking for a extension.

Now I made my decision not to pursue that $85 he owes me

I went all these troubles to prove myself that I got scammed and lost $85, because someone didn't believe my story.
And after some conversation with elmanchez's friends, I will accept his story he is just a careless kid who made a terrible mistake that costed me $85

There is no reason to push elmanchez at this stage.

I will write off his debt and close this case.