Bitcoin Forum

Edit: Poll was updated and reset. I apologize for all who have voted, but the original answer options were flawed. I think it's not too late as it ran only for a single day and some hours. Poll will stay open for about a month or until the thread dies.

This question has always interested me, but I've never seen a poll about it.

Would you use or buy Bitcoins, if you knew that the BTC price would not reach a new all time high in the forseeable future?

(Just to clarify: "No new ATH" doesn't mean that it won't grow anymore. But if there's no new ATH, from today's point of view, most you can expect is a duplication of the price.)

It would be cool if you post your reasons in the answer. Here are some examples. I'll also indicate which option you should select in every case:

- Yes, because I am a daytrader and don't care for ATHs (correct option: "Yes, as long as It helps me to earn money")
- Yes, because I am earning money as a freelancer with Bitcoin-related services or bounty campaigns (correct option: "Yes, as long as It helps me to earn money")
- No, because Bitcoin only makes sense for me if it sees mass adoption (correct option: "No")
- Only after a substantial drop, because then it can give me profits if price turns back upwards (correct option: "It depends, maybe after a substantial price drop")
- Yes, because I use it for other reasons (remittances, electronic commerce ...) (correct option: "Yes, also for payments and savings")
 
I will wait for some answers and post mine. It's obviously a question about sentiment, later I'll post some thoughts about the background of the poll.

Nice question. If bitcoin will not reach a new ATH in literally forever, yes I would still use bitcoin from time to time for online payments, but I probably wouldn't hold a significant amount of my wealth in it. Because if it's USD price would stop increasing, then it failed in the "hedge" category. At some point you might as well just hold USD because if for example BTC stays at $10,000 for 20 years, you still lost value due to inflation.

Yes, you'd still have self sovereignty, but it's definitely a lot less attractive.

Thankfully it's very possible for bitcoin to reach new ATHs.

Well, I earn a bit of it at present so I'd continue to spend it while doing that. Once that's over then fuck no pretty much other than the odd thing like VPNs.

The volatility will still be there. If I was a trader then that may excite me. Since I'm not that was just bore me and lose money I was uninterested in losing.

The prospect of future ATHs is what keeps people engaged enough to sit through all the abuse BTC rains down on you. If that's gone then I'd prefer to direct my energy somewhere more productive.

Yes, the answer always has to be yes that BTC is useful and wanted for just what it is today.    Even if price does rise alot Im not sure value will, I think we're going to see price changes related to inflation not value appreciation which means you gain only what you lost elsewhere really.     It will probably occur that if dollar proves so awful at remaining a proper unit of account that other sectors of currency gain but I dont rely on BTC for that reason.   I only want one thing, BTC is reliable and available to as many people as need it to transport their value globally and online to others, if it does we all assume the ATH will get higher but thats not my direct concern really.   Worry about the protocol before the price imo.

Those who have the luxury to hodl btc will not engage in spending it for unnecessary things because of the thought that it will increase later on. On my part, I also spend btc when it is only necessary. But it doesn't stop me to convert my btc to fiat if the situation calls for it. I think I still have the mindset also of holding my btc as much as I can for the hope that it will increase its value later on. And I guess most of us have that kind of perception.

If the possibility of future price increases is gone you're left with a cruel mistress with a few very useful qualities. That's not really going to be enough to keep most people on board. Traders may still keep playing with it. Most others will bail.

That is just simply false. If that was really the case, online services wouldn't be accepting bitcoin because it wouldn't be worth maintaining the payment method(just like what Steam and other services did). I'd even argue that bitcoin is a significant percentage of payments being used on some online services(especially VPNs and VPSs).

There is no big price move, and we don't know what stops the growth. If the entire world hasn't faced the pandemic the price might have moved to a new ath. This statement has been put forth based upon the speculation and expertise predictions made for the year 2020.

As of now most of the purchase of bitcoin is used into trading and for gambling. Very few have considered as an investment, maybe after a substantial price drop once again purchase considering it an investment will progress.

Yes, I would. And for several reasons. One is that I would still make some nice profit as compared to storing my money in banks. Another reason is that it is so much better to save your money in Bitcoin rather than let it sleep in fiat. That is just like burning its value away. Not to mention that time might come your money in a bank will become harder to prove ownership to unless all kinds of proof and documents are submitted.

But I have this belief that $20,000 as an ATH is too low.

well i bought my first bitcoin in 2014 (aka the year of bitcoin drop from $500 to $150) and continued buying, earning, accumulating and spending it ever since because it was a global decentralized currency that wasn't subject to any kind of restrictions such as US sanctions, didn't need any KYC and in short nobody had their hands in my pocket.
the "price rise" has always been the additional incentive for me and even if it were removed i still continue as before (buying, earning and using) since nothing else has changed about bitcoin.

If the price doesn't reach a new ATH is the foreseeable future, that could signify a certain level of stability in the price. Volatility has prevented lots of outlets from accepting bitcoins as a means of payment and those who do, usually use payment processors. If the price however became more stable, this could increase adoption and give Bitcoin more practical uses while still maintaining its core values, hence an added incentive to hold.
So I'll definitely still hold bitcoins. It can still be used for instant transactions, to anywhere in the world. Citizens of developing countries who may want to escape inflation in their country, like what happened in Zimbabwe, can easily hold their assets in other currencies, asides their local fiat, without going through the hassles of creating a domiciliary account.

The absence of speculative value would draw more light to its various applications.

I wonder what Tom Lee would look like if someone said that Bitcoin will never reach ATH again, I think all Tom Lee customers would take their money and invest in other assets. This is to say that most people invest in bitcoin because they dream of making a 5X profit.

to answer your question, I don't care about ATH because I don't do hodl

If I didn't think a bubble could be right around the corner, I'd probably use/spend BTC a lot more often. The potential upside leads to a real hoarding mindset.

Sounds nice actually because if you knew this for a fact, you could make a killing swing trading the never ending range.

Yes, I will still use bitcoin and buy bitcoin, especially if the price can go down. And if there is no new ATH that will happen, I am no problem with that because I use my bitcoin as the investment, which means, I will sell my bitcoin if the price increases are so high. But I don't want to use bitcoin in the online payment because bitcoin is too worth for me to just use for the payment.

I use bitcoin for trading to make more money and for the investment side, but I don't use bitcoin as the payment transaction. I believe that in the end, bitcoin prices will increase. No matter how long it will happen, we will see that in the future.

I voted Yes, been buying/earning bitcoin in 2017 and I have used it literally like a currency to pay my basic needs up to this day. Of course a new ATH will be great and have been an upside specially if you have bought and then the price suddenly jumps some X%. And I think people will continue to buy despite the price going somewhat stable. It's been a stable for investors, specially when we talk diversification.

Yes, I still would but with a different perspective. ATH is just another thing but the btc usage is what it made significant for me. You know... the transactions I have to make without compromising the identity of one another, the same time the ease of just hitting the send button compared on going to several places just to make the payment successful.

Besides it was always been uncertain if bitcoin price would be able to hit ATH again but it doesn't exclude much people away with bitcoin. Apparently, there are some who left but those who knew the utility it has, somehow, still keeps them in this rare industry. And yeah, making a profit out of trading is an additional thing though.

I would definitely buy Bitcoin,because:
1.There are some ways to make profits out of Bitcoin trading,that aren't directly connected to the Bitcoin price.For example,buying gift cards with BTC on Paxful and reselling those gift cards for profit.Some Bitcoin vendors on Paxful are making 8-15% consistent profits out of this and the BTC price fluctuations doesn't matter.This is more like a business,rather than crypto day trading.I consider crypto day trading to be more like a 9/5 job,but without the guaranteed income.
2.I would buy BTC when I'm expecting a decent price growth(not ATH).I'm not greedy and don't consider myself an experienced trader,so I can't predict a possible new ATH.Bitcoin price will most likely stay volatile forever,so there will be more ups and downs,price crashes and bull rallies,which leaves huge potential for new profits.

Why are buy and use interchangeable?

By definition, traders don't actually use Bitcoin, and users don't actually trade. They do sell, and hold, and grow it, but that's not the same as trading as they typically keep earning or having enough to spend, but they don't sit on exchanges watching price movements. Opportunities arise and if it's convenient, users take advantage (buy in the dip).

Buy should be interchangeable with earn. Guys like me earn our bitcoin now, we don't ever buy them;)

The high volatility of Bitcoin is one of the interesting parts and major reasons why many buy it.  Even if it does not reach its ATH or create any new ATH, the idea of getting profit on its high volatility market makes me wanna buy it.  And about using Bitcoin, I believe the price should be out of the question.  We can use BTC no matter how much its price is.  As one of the earlier reply stated, those who use Bitcoin do not trade it for profit sake but for exchange of the product with the equivalent value.

There is still a lot of money to earn even if Bitcoin doesn't crack up to a new ATH. If we look at the prices now and how Bitcoin moves people can still gain 200-300% from it when it drops significantly. Yeah basically hodlers will be screwed if they are looking for new figures but if you are a user and a trader I think you won't really be affected by this at all.

I'm not really into hoping to these another ATH will happen again (well, +) or not, I always buy/spend my BTC for some personal reasons.

Buy = Trade
Spend (if really necessary) = Usage

As always, my fiat income will support all my expenses (including BTC accumulation). If there will be a time that I need to spend my BTC, then that's it especially on my trip where mobile banking sometimes fails.

I could say that I'm so used to it of spending whatever the price is although I already did hid some for the future so I don't have to worry for what is coming. And I think most people would do the same thing just as I did since Bitcoin is also a currency that we need to spend in order to circulate. Traders on the other hand might as well doing the same thing that I did. Fiat is also a big help for my daily expenses but there are things in online that needed to pay with Bitcoin.

I am not using bitcoin for its price? I mean I do get that some people are actually using it for pure trading and making more fiat. But you do realize that bitcoin is a currency right? Like it is not some stock market share that you buy and sell to make a profit and that is all it is good for? I think it is quite important to realize that bitcoin, even without any outside fiat currency help, is worth something.

Just to give an example, if you remove all fiat in the world, you could basically sell an apple for 50 satoshi, you could sell a computer for 1 bitcoin, you could basically use bitcoin purely as a currency without needing to use anything else like "x amount bitcoin is 100 dollars" type of understanding. So yeah, I would definitely use bitcoin even without price going up or down.

The objective of this poll is to know about all possible use cases. Trading is among the use cases I want to include, because trading an asset recognizes, in a way, the value or utility it has. You wouldn't trade an asset if it was worth nothing. Trading is actually only another way to exchange a BTC with another asset, like "usage as a currency".

One of the ideas which lead to this poll is the sentiment, among many Bitcoiners, that price will reach new heighs in a forseeable future. An example for this sentiment is the stock-to-flow ratio, the posting of Moon pictures/memes, and so on.

What is interesting for me is to know if this sentiment is necessary to maintain Bitcoin afloat, which would be true if the "dream of getting rich" is still the main use case. In this case, if the Bitcoin price stabilizes for a long time (or goes lower and stays low) many "Bitcoiners" would cease to use it. If this was true, then Bitcoin would be always in danger to disappear if there is no

I think, however, that the current iteration of the poll has a flaw. I suspect the results for now (overwhelming majority voting for "yes") is mostly representative for those who participate in signature campaigns - those will, obviously, continue to use it as long as they earn money with it and this profit is competitive with other sources of income. I should have added two different options - an example could be:

- Yes, as long as I can earn money with it
- Yes, as a consumer

The second option would then be the one for those using it for payments and for savings if their goal is stability. I'm however also not completely happy with these two options because option 1 would leave out traders and merchants, too. I'll think about it a bit, and maybe restart it with other options.

Bitcoin is still volatile. So, yes I would still buy Bitcoin during a significant drop, and use it (for spending or converting it back to fiat.) when the price rises. More of like short trading.
I guess this scenario would bring more negative impact to the long term hodlers. Not with the regular users who make transactions through Bitcoin as much as possible.

This is actually a good question to differentiate how people are seeing Bitcoin; is it just an investment to earn good profit, or a global currency as well?

Being paid in bitcoin does not count as earning money from it, imo. It's a payment for a service rendered, and can be made in different currencies.
On the issue of signatures, as long as the forum is a recognized means of advertising, it would be used. Spikes in Bitcoin price usually creates more traffic, but in general there are lots of members here really interested in discussing about it (there would likely be a drop if bitcoin loses its speculative value).
Paying for service rendered (like promotions) will fall under this category, and signature campaigns would as well. So I don't think the poll is flawed

The fact that members here accept payments in Bitcoin is also one of the motivations to hodl it. I doubt many would be interested in dropping their bank account details or using some other payment channel which would require personal details to register.

I think this is wrong. There are bounty hunters who are definitively interested in Bitcoin. But there are others who would also participate if the payment was done in e.g. PayPal and the contributions would be about ... let's say, cooking ;)

But the current signature campaigns in this forum are for contributions related to Bitcoin (some for altcoins or tokens, but it's at least a related topic, and most if not all altcoins/tokens wouldn't exist if Bitcoin wasn't there). So you earn money "from it", meaning that Bitcoin is necessary for this kind of income. Maybe however I should formulate it in this way:

- Yes, as long as it helps me earning money

I have changed and reset the poll. I apogize to all who have answered it before, but the original poll was flawed. So please vote again (if you want).

I think you can join the number 1 and 2 into 1 part which will be like this "Yes, as long as it helps me to earn money and using it for payments and savings" because I think when we earn money from bitcoin, at least we use bitcoin for payment because we buy and sell bitcoin in any price.
If the option is like that, I am vote number 1, but if still like what I see now, hm I am vote number 1: "Yes, as long as it helps me to earn money."
So both numbers 1 and 2 will be better if it's joined as one part.
The rest of the options will be okay, and I don't think it's necessary to change.

If people get paid in BTC, they are much more inclined to spend it. I can confirm from experience.

That's part of the trouble with the current economy: very few people generate BTC income, and it generally costs money to acquire BTC (trading fees and markups, banking fees). Why would anyone buy it just to spend it? Even if you remove the question of volatility, they would just be losing money, not to mention time.

There are exceptions of course, particularly in black and grey markets. DNM users obviously can't use fiat. BTC is superior for gambling transfers in countries where those businesses are illegal. Cannabis businesses often have trouble maintaining bank accounts and I've seen some of them encouraging the use of BTC. Schemes intent on tax evasion can also utilize BTC since it can obscure payment flows, avoid conventional tax reporting, etc. Cross-border remittance schemes intent on evading capital controls also come to mind. Privacy-minded stuff (porn and sex shops and the like) too. Basically anything that benefits from either censorship resistance or increased privacy can justify the use of BTC (and the costs incurred by acquiring it).

This stuff is difficult to quantify as a whole, and I don't think a forum poll will give you a realistic idea either.

Voted for Number 2 as that was indeed.

I am using Bitcoin For Payments and also for Investment as i believe inFuture of this Cryptocurrency.
 I have Missed My chance back then  so i am grabbing my opportunity now to hold this for long term.

Actually this helps me a lot this pandemic when my bills are getting paid using my  holdings for safer since the virus is really threatening .

Before the poll was changed I voted for the first answer but now I went for the second answer since I use (or spend) Bitcoin in most of my online transactions. And I agree with extasie receiving Bitcoins encouraged me to spend no matter what the current price is. If I only get my Bitcoins through trading then i'd take the third answer since i'll probably be using other currencies more often than Bitcoin.

Yes i would use Bitcoin, i think i would use it more than regular, because the price is stable more or less. I would use Bitcoin as emerceny money on a paperwallet. Plus i would quit my bankaccount because i have no need for it, i pay the most stuff with Bitcoin only the goverment want fiat from me but i think there will be a solution to solve even this problem.

I never invested money in bitcoin with the hope that its value will rise. I want to control my wealth my self.

I find this an interesting question because it made me question my motivations of being in the market lol. I voted the second option.

What I know for sure is that I won't sell what I currently have; I like the technology, I like where it can go, and I have zero expectations of BTC touching its ATH anytime soon again anyway. I don't think my spending habits will change either, since I only ever use it in cases where it's actually better/more convenient than fiat (VPNs, some transactions with friends overseas, etc.)

That being said, I'd probably also stop accumulating. If I'm keeping it just for the sake of having some untouchable experimental money, then I'd say I have enough for that. The uncomfortable truth is that long-term store of value is also an important Bitcoin use-case, so limiting its growth would also mean limiting its utility. There's also a certain risk-reward dynamic in keeping a significant amount of money in Bitcoin, and skewing that in such a way that the risk is no longer worth the reward makes it a no-brainer for people like me who don't necessarily hate "The System".

Yeah, it can't be a perfect poll in this sense, but then you could have different polls for a different target audience. And if you're really going for usage, then I think leaving out traders is fine (and most merchants settle in fiat anyway and don't see a single satoshi or have a wallet so they don't care) because traders don't need an ATH.

In fact, if you're wondering who cares about an ATH, it really is speculative holders only you're looking at. Then there's no point in asking if they'll use it, right?

I still have to say that in the context of Bitcoin, buy and use should be distinct. Buyers are traders, who are really exchanging Bitcoin for another currency, while users are exchanging it for goods and services.

Again, I use my case and many others like me, we don't buy Bitcoin, we earn it (I charge clients in Bitcoin). And we spend it, ideally, because we have to, regardless of price. So we're users as are our clients. The only time I use an exchange or trade p2p is when I need to sell it but ideally, I'd spend everything in btc if I could.

Which is why I say most altcoins don't have much use case beyond speculative trading.

I seconded!


I completely understand what you have pointed out, and It absolutely made sense, but there are also instances when a person on the receiving end of a certain transaction only wants to have Bitcoin as a payment. Rare cases from people who are engaged into cryptocurrency, and that comes from my experience. The only difference was, I didn't need to buy Bitcoin since I have stashed a few fractions in my wallets.
Nevertheless, this situation is the same as the exceptions you mentioned below. The only thing is all of those transactions were illegal from the black market lol.

Yes for sure as long as it gives me financial freedom and also a speculative asset which gives somewhat earning opportunity rather than using a fiat which gets depreciated by its value from time to time.And also I will keep using bitcoins for gambling purpose no matter what value it is currently hanging at because crypto gambling is more convenient and lot of choices to choose from all around the world.

People are forgetting that the creation reason for bitcoin was to give the people power back on their own finances. Right now, governments control the economy and they are making it in a way that it is unfair to some people (poor usually or even middle class) but making it advantageous to be rich, if you are rich you are destined to stay rich unless you do something stupid and so insane and also go against the government.

This is why I think it is quite important that we should focus on the freedom part of bitcoin, that way we could always focus on bitcoin becoming something that would allow us to be powerful once again. That never has anything to do with ATH price or any price, it will always be like that at all prices and that is why we should never care unless we are in it just for profit.

Lets take out the fact that bitcoin appreciate in price although which is one of the core reason I picked interest in participating in the movement. Still, bitcoin has served me in so many ways that irrespective of the price not appreciating or achieving new ATH I still would purchased them. Unfortunately I'm from a region that find it very difficult to get online approval from merchants or digital currency service providers across the globe but with bitcoin, I haven't experience such discrimination.

It make my online transactions more convenient and satisfactory since I won't have to wait for an interference or approval from third parties like other digital currency are known for, that would judge me based on my place of origin. You might never understood how valuable bitcoin is to we from this region, unless you have experience want we have gone through.

Yes, I would. I'm involved with Bitcoin for eight years now and I never quit. And there were times when Bitcoin was not so successful and price was very low
But I beleive that Bitcoin is not only about price. Unfortunately there are very few Bitcoin enthusiasts left and although Bitcoin price is quite decent now and gives the chances for profit some appreciate Bitcoin only when it's above 10000$.

We should think up this way but it sad to know the fact that majority of people here that do engage with bitcoin or generally with crypto is just to make profits in the first place and only a few are really here when it comes to
full support when it comes to its actual usage and benefits without minding much on the money making opportunity that it gives which i do only consider as a bonus.
On the question if you would buy or use Btc if you do know that wont reach out such ATH then i would still make use of it without a doubt! Im not minding if it cant give out profit
and what matter most here is about that freedom part that you've been talking.

Formulation is still not ideal, but the idea is the following:

Vote for 1) if you only would use Bitcoin if you earn money with it (where Bitcoin is important for the source of income, e.g. Bitcoin-related services, signature/bounty campaigns related to Bitcoin). The exact way you use it is not important, it's the reason you use it.

Vote for 2) if you also would use Bitcoin if you didn't earn money with it. For example, because you replace your bank or savings account with a Bitcoin wallet, or because you use it for remittances.

So in the case you mention, option 1 would be the correct one.

I'll clarify that in the OP.

This would be ideal, but it is difficult if you aren't using an online panel or other complex poll mechanism, because otherwise you don't know if those answering really belong to your audience. The goal of the two different "Yes" answers is just to approximate to that ideal a bit ("signature campaigners" would select mostly option 1, "bitcoin users" option 2) without making the poll too complex.

While you could argue indeed that traders using fiat settlement and never making any transactions on the network are not really "using" Bitcoin, the existence of Bitcoin is relevant for them.

For example, I want to differentiate between the following two cases:

1) a trader who tries to "ride" bull markets (and perhaps bear markets as well). He would only trade Bitcoin if it's an asset with a certain probability to see a new rally. He thinks that only if people are thinking about "the moon", dreaming of getting rich and an ATH was possible, price moves would be high enough to make good profits. This type of trader would select "No".

2) a trader who only trades small price swings, i.e. a daytrader, and he would only continue to trade Bitcoin if these price swings were high enough to make profit. This kind of trader would select "Yes, only if it helps me to earn money".

The difference is that for trader 1 the fact of a new ATH is important, and thus he would leave the BTC market if the price stabilizes. While type 2 would stay if he can still make money.

Both are only "traders", and are not really using Bitcoin, but their existence is important because both contribute to volume and liquidity. If type 1 traders and other people answering "No" are a big majority, then Bitcoin's volume, liquidity, and also the price are probably in danger if for a long time it fails to achieve a new ATH. "Convinced Bitcoin users" (unconditional "Yes" answers) would stay, so it's important to know the size of this audience. Type 2 traders, signature campaign participants and other "Bitcoin earners" are something in-between: they would probably stay longer than those that only use it if an ATH is possible, but if the ATH-dependant group is too large, they would also leave.

We could have the following scenarios if Bitcoin fails to reach an ATH in a long timeframe:

1) Most users depend on an ATH -> Price eventually crashes dramatically.
2) Many users depend on an ATH, but group 2 ("Bitcoin earners") and 3 are also big -> Price could see a bear market, but would eventually stabilize again.
3) Only few users depend on an ATH -> Price could continue to stay stable.

This is basically the idea behind the poll, to know the probabilities of these scenarios. I know a forum poll is very limited, but if participation is high enough then maybe we can draw some conclusions from it.

(Hope this was understandable ;) )

yes because im one of those who work online for btc  but this does not mean i dont care on the price anymore  . i do love to see btc grow more and reach its ath or new ath too   . this is only a what if and theres no assurance that it will happen so people wont be scared to invest and hope for the greater good  . if we look at other coins that are stable or are obviously dont grew anymore , there are still people who uses them  . how much more btc when btc is more   better than them  .

Yeah, it was all understandable, thank you for taking the time to explain. I think if you put it like this, then I understand the point of the poll. I just still think that the way it's framed leads people to vote with their instinct, not necessarily with their action but then again, all polls are about opinion and not action (as election polls show!).

I think Bitcoin's price history (spending maybe 15% of the time close to ATH and the rest of the time far below it) unfortunately proves that group 1 is true, that most users depend on an ATH. Fact is, more people are speculators than users (though I agree all rely on the network so game theory keeps people using it when they don't need it).

I get your point. But so far, as a bitcoin user, I use bitcoin as a source of income.
I think trading can be the way to have bitcoin and make it a source income.
And after we have bitcoin, we convert it into fiat money and leave some part in bitcoin form, and we use some part of that money to fills our daily needs and the other part for savings.
If people replace their bank or savings account with a bitcoin wallet, that will depend on where he lives because if he lives in a country that allows bitcoin, he will not have a problem.
But if he lives in a country that doesn't allow bitcoin, he still needs his banks to save the money.
Besides that, most people still use fiat money to send to other people, even if they are in the bitcoin world.

So I think people have to make a wrong choice by vote number two ;D

Julian Hosp mention this thought in one of his last Videos, and that make me think about it.

If I there will be no new ATH, I would not use Bitcoin as a speculation object anymore. Because the downside Risk in Bitcoin (and alt coins) is very high, so I want an huge upside potential. I probably would go in to Gold & Silver instead of Bitcoin, because there is a lower downside Risk and a bigger upside potential.

If you look at the current situation, many people do not think Bitcoin will head for a new ATH, after halving happened yesterday.

But, of course, who bought a lot, the reason: simple.
Bitcoin for today is pretty good for trading/investing in the short term, a matter of hours or days.
As an example:
Today Bitcoin is in the position of $ 9000, of course this is a good step to buy, when the price reaches $ 9500, of course it can be sold, on and on it will happen all this time like that.
So, even though the price of Bitcoin today hasn't crept further ATH, I'm sure there are still a lot of investing and doing short-term trading.

I myself do the same thing.

Thanks for the question: as I have read many replies, they would they still use bitcoin because of the potentials in this digital coin. Personally, I would use this Bitcoin even though the world is crumbling and the Fiat's are rising. Bitcoin wasn't meant for the purpose of earning huge amount of money like many thought, but give freedom to us which is more important than watching out for another all time high. My earnings in bitcoin isn't my aims while am here but it nature of decentralization.

The biggest question is how did you know that there is no another all time high this is 2020 when market is very volatile and it's hard to predict what's going to happen next, but if there is no all time high I don't have no reason not to buy when it can be used to buy stuffs and still make money from short trading, there are still people making money in trading Bitcoin even if the price is dropping.

This exhibits the futile nature of the question. In a free market, there are no bounds on highs or lows. It's like asking, what if the US dollar could never drop in value, or what if gold was pegged to $1,700/oz? Answers to these questions don't yield much value since they pervert the very idea of markets. Obviously if gold (or BTC) traded at a permanently fixed price, people wouldn't use them as a speculative vehicle anymore. If BTC was guaranteed to have no upside potential, people would obviously cease long term investments, and people might just short it into the ground.

I'm not sure what that really tells us about the spectrum of BTC users though. It's just common sense. People invest based on risk vs. reward. If you take away the potential reward, they will stop investing.

Yep, still that's what answer 1 is meant for. Answer 2 is for people who don't depend on Bitcoin for their income. They use Bitcoin, for example, because they think it's safer for savings than fiat, even without big price increases - e.g. people in countries like Venezuela. Or because they think it's safer than money on a bank account because the bank could go bankrupt, or fiat become worthless. Or because they're using it in a way it's more convenient than fiat, like international transfers.

The background of the poll is explained a bit in the answer to buwaytress (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5261944.msg54803939#msg54803939). In short: I want to know what would happen if the price stays stable for a long time: who would leave, who could stay, and which group tends to be bigger.

@Silber: thanks for your honest answer :)

If that happens, I guess we will be in a boring mode because we can not profit from bitcoin.
Probably, that can be a way for people to save their bitcoin, and they will try to search for the profit from the altcoin market.
But personally, I don't think that the price stays stable for a long time. If we look at the market situations now, we see that bitcoin price stays stable, but the price is not mean it stays at one price only, but the price still up and down.
People who have confidence and believe in bitcoin will stay and will try hard to earn more bitcoin because they believe that bitcoin price can increase so high.
But I don't know which group will be bigger because that group does not show themselves in public.

There is one big difference to the last halving: Now there are Futures for Bitcoin. And Futures have a stabilizing effect for the underlining commodity. So that could be a reason, why the Bitcoin volatility will shrink on the long term.

You could, in this hypothetical situation, maybe not profit that much only from holding it. But think about what Bitcoin wants to be. If it wants to be a real currency, then it has to become stable eventually.

In "real currencies", i.e. those that become an unit of account, you only profit from hodling "something" if this hodling involves risk (this is one of the basic Capitalist principles), for example investing in stocks. To profit, instead, in a "Bitcoin world" you could invest in ICOs and hope that the projects you support are successful. But holding the currency should be, most of the time, only "hold your value" approximately.

The question is if Bitcoin can become this kind of "real currency" or not. If there are not enough user supporting it without needing an ICO, then it would crash in an insane manner when people realize that they won't become rich from hodling.

This user group is exactly the group which should vote for "No" in my poll. Because they think Bitcoin is a speculative vehicle, not a currency. If this group doesn't become smaller eventually, Bitcoin will finally crash hard. Instead, those that believe that Bitcoin will stay and don't depend on a price increase, are those who will always act as a support, and create the conditions for BTC becoming a "real currency".

Futures are one reason, for sure. But the other reason could be increased liquidity from other sources. If Bitcoin becomes massively used as a currency then this could lead into even more "boredom". ;)

Yes, I'd still buy it. I never really saw it as an investment for some reason. Sure, at first, I bought BTC and was waiting for an ATH, but as time passed, well, my mindset changed quite a bit and started using my supply of BTC every now and then. I still hold a bit of them and buy them every now and then, but even without the chances of achieving another ATH, Bitcoin being an option to buy some stuff I want without finding out who I am seems pretty nice to me.

This is just a sad mindset and has probably failed what Satoshi's goal really is tbh. Well, not that I can blame you, the community up to now has pretty much lead us to think of Bitcoin as an investment after all. Still, "boring" seems kind of taking it as Bitcoin now being "useless". It's not like the only characteristic of Bitcoin is being a speculative asset. You're basically blinding your eyes to a majority of what it can do due to being blinded by, yes, profit.

the thing that makes people interested in bitcoin is not only the high prices, but also because of the fast volatility. people can make a lot of money in other ways than by waiting for a new ATH. however, if the price can still be higher than this, I think people will still buy and hold bitcoin according to the target they want.

Holding bitcoin will not give much profit than use bitcoin to trade unless the price surge suddenly. I think it is hard for bitcoin to stable because the max supply is not already reached, and we are still seeing the next halving in the next few years.
Maybe if the halving amount is reduced to less than 1 bitcoin, the price can be stable, but I don't know.
But I agree that bitcoin needs to be stable to become a real currency.

In these situations, bitcoin already stable for a moment, and the price is not down below $9k and not up to $9,500, and the price has always changed to that price over and over.
If we are still in these situations until the end of this year or next year, we can try to search for the profit from the altcoin or ICO or IEO or whatever its name.

I am sure that bitcoin can become real currency in the future, and we still need an ICO or IEO or even existing altcoin to help us to make money or profit. We need to accept bitcoin to be stable if we want to use bitcoin as a currency. But we already have a stable coin which is not too volatile as bitcoin.

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I am sorry if I am wrong at this point because I am not too understand about the economic law or something that kind.

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If so, they can leave bitcoin as it is without the want to use or buy another bitcoin because the price is down.
I think they can answer "It depends, maybe after a substantial price drop" because they can buy more bitcoin with less money when the price drops.
But we don't know what they reason to answer no, and we only guess for what they think ;D

Because people now think to make a profit from bitcoin from investment and trading.
Boring here is about we are difficult to analyze, predict, or knowing when the time to trade because we are hard to see the chance to enter the market.
If we can not get the sign to enter the market, that can lead us to buy at a high price, and it will be hard to sell it back for some time.
I use bitcoin as an investment, and as a way to make money, but I accept the price fluctuate. Although I am not good at analysis, I believe that if I keep trying to analyze, I will get that time to enter the market.
Btw, we need profit, and I believe you want it too ;D

But once again, maybe I am wrong, so I apologize.

I believe that today it is foolish to use Bitcoin as a means of payment, since the cryptocurrency has not yet reached those peaks to be appreciated. Therefore, I will never spend my bitcoins. On the other hand, bitcoin today is one of the best cryptocurrencies for long-term investments and even without 100% guarantees and a forecast for the near future, I still invested a certain amount in Bitcoin, but I did it much earlier.

I made a small edit to option 2, because I suspect there were still misunderstandings - I think some may have voted for it, even if they depend on Bitcoin earnings. As the general sense of the poll options has not changed, I have not reset the poll.

@traderethereum: What you write is not wrong, only that what you write is not exactly what I want to achieve with the poll. I'm not trying to know if Bitcoin's price will be stable now (In fact, I think not).

Instead my intention is to know what would happen if we see a long stable or bearish phase. "Long" in the sense of longer than any stable phase or bear market we've seen until to date - approximately longer than a year, which was the maximum length of past bear markets in 2013-15 (~14 months)  and 2017/18 (~12 months). The question is: Would people keep using and buying Bitcoin or not? Would they wait for a further crash (option 3)?

With ICOs/STOs etc. I wasn't referring to "altcoins" in general, but tokens which correspond to real-world businesses. Even if Bitcoin becomes a "real currency" and stabilizes, these tokens would continue to be volatile, just like stocks today, because businesses are successful or not, what would be reflected by the token price.

Yes, as I would use it for payments and savings, especially if it keeps on growing... I think it would turn into a less speculative asset and it would assume a definitive "store of value " characteristic
If it would remain stagnant I would be less enthusiastic about it but would hold some anyway

From the day of bitcoin into usage there is periodic growth with time. At some point there is unexpected price increase which boosted the expectation among the cryptocurrency users. This doesn't mean that bitcoin needs to reach ath quite often. As most people my preference of bitcoin and other cryptocurrency were a form of investment. Till date it has provided with a profit out of the growth and same continues as the demand keeps growing.

   2. Yes, even if I don't earn money with it, e.g. for payments and savings.
   Bitcoin opened my mind for decentralization. Opportunity to make profit from investing is great, nobody can deny that, but
the idea of the better system where all people involved will have a vote sound better than the system we currently have.
   I support crypto-currencies for future, it can make changes we need for a better world, and that can be profitable for us
who started earlier!

People do forget where bitcoin is trading right now but keep demanding it to be performing like "top currency of the year" all the times. (I remember bitcoin was marked as worst currency of the year in 2014 but in 2017 topped as best currency of the year). It is always investors expectations to have 10x growth of all the assets where they have invested. They do fail to realize the basic price action which ends up usually spreading FUDs.

When people agreed cryptocurrencies as good investments then it implicitly denotes they are growing over the time or at least it is having good volatility to make use for both traders and investors (by volatility we can assume it is having both rising and falling trends as no asset can be into falling trend when we market as a good investment opportunity).

Thank you for editing the poll and make it clear, I really appreciated it.

If that so, I will still vote for number 1.
I guess people will still buy bitcoin no matter if they can earn money or not, because, for bitcoiners, they will want to have more and more bitcoin.
That is what people do if they believe in bitcoin. But some of them will wait for a further crash because that can help them buy bitcoin at a lower price.

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I have experience in the past.
When I talk about bitcoin with some of the early bitcoin adopters in 2013-2015, they said that it is better to buy more and more bitcoin at a price at that year, even if we are difficult to earn money from bitcoin, because we believe that the bitcoin price will increase so high.
What they said has proven in 2017-2018 because, in that year, they have the biggest chance to sell bitcoin for almost $20k per 1 bitcoin, and they have more than 5 bitcoin.
Their initial money is less than $5k.

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I think that situation will happen again if bitcoin has a long stable because people who have bitcoin right now, would buy more bitcoin at a price now. They will repeat history by booking a lot of money from bitcoin in the future.

Yes, this is a good question, because it is actually one of the key questions in cryptocurrency. I think that a significant part of cryptocurrency holders still hold bitcoins because they hope to profit from the growth of its price. I remember that once a survey was conducted on this topic, and then the majority answered that they would not buy bitcoin if they knew that it would not grow in price.
Here the question is posed of a somewhat different plan. Bitcoin will periodically rise slightly and then fall, but in general, its price will not rise. In this case, Bitcoin may be of interest to traders. But in this case, the general prospect of its use would have more questions than answers.

I think so.

Since people would start to spend Bitcoin left and right, I think that would also affect the price. That just means Bitcoin would be more liquid and I think that would also mean that in the long run, it would reach another ATH. It is still decentralized so it can still affect the price with that. Either way, I will still use my Bitcoin since it is not that the ATH matters, it is the convinience I'm having using it.

Collector's value? If Bitcoin would be reduced to that it's trading volume would probably be near 0.
I voted for the second option. I haven't bought any bitcoins for a long time since I went all in long ago and now have to spend all my fiat on my daily needs. I'd still use it and hold it if there was no new ATH, although I feel like it's still greatly undervalued at 9k. I'd appreciate a stable price between 15k and 20k. 

Well, we can still use it for other things. although it did not reach the new ATH, at the very least, it could only be higher and lower. however, I also might still need it, it's just that I will use it something needs. Well, we currently use bitcoin without knowing whether bitcoin will reach the new ATH or not.

I dont understand what have using Bitcoin do with Bitcoin reaching ATH. I am cautious using Bitcoin for some other reasons then if it will reach ATH or not. Information who owned Bitcoins I have before me. And information I will give to the one I will spend my Bitcoin to.

Is there anything difficult in his question that you cannot understand? I sure have trouble understanding your point. Especially that last sentence.

Bitcoin is an investment which means many people buy it to sell later and profit. That's why many wouldn't buy it if they knew there would be no $50 thousand Bitcoin, ever.

I'd still use it and by it even as an investment because no ATH doesn't exclude the possibility of 20 thousand dollar bitcoin which is a 2x gain.

Well, that was a clever idea and that is right, indeed.
If I have bitcoin too I wont tell to anyone or either if I wanted to buy bitcoin no one knows except me. For holders, they are very happy to see bitcoin is on ATH but the buyer will sad that they can jump in since if bitcoin will high the price and to the moon. No one knows when the ATH will come, --if you have enough budget, it is better to start accumulate right now. Every people expected that ATH will come after that halving was successfully done. But when it comes project ICO and holding token, I don't usually do.

Wow 55% for this option "Yes, even if I don't earn money with it, e.g. for payments and savings" at the moment!
I hope this is relevant information about the whole community, as in this case we have fewer speculators than expected and more ideological participants.

I do not think that people here who are old enough to understand the importance of a crypto world would ever care about the price for using it. I mean sure we can buy and sell and try to make a profit right now, but that is because we know that we can profit from it while trading it, that is why we do that and not stop because it can be done.

However if one day people came up and said that bitcoin will be 10k and never move again, become like a stable currency that will never move, I can guarantee you that people would definitely keep using it that way as well. Look at USDT, that is a crappy one that people do not even like and it reached to 10 billion dollars, that means people really want to use a stable one as well. So, go above ATH, or not go above ATH, people will continue to use crypto no matter what.

I am not sure because that is what my friend said to me at that time.
We don't know what people do right now, whether they still buy bitcoin or not. But if I have a lot of money, I will buy more bitcoin because that will be a hidden gold for me.
Yes, I still hold it like you, but if the price is down below, I will buy some amount and sell it again once it's increasing.
Many of us hope the price will be stable at $15k or $20k, but the price does not touch that price, but I am sure that it will go to that price soon.

Bitcoin is simply permissions money. It is totally pointless what value one coin have. You use Bitcoin to exchange goods. At least I do, I totally dont get it why others dont.

It would be surely more clear if I wrote only "buy Bitcoin" in the poll. But: If you use Bitcoin in most possible ways, you acknowledge it has a value. "Using" Bitcoin in any way means also "buying" in the sense of exchanging something for it, only not necessarily fiat. For example, bounty participants are "buying" Bitcoin with the service they provide. Even mining can be seen as a way to "buy" Bitcoin. In this case there is no personified seller, but you would only mine if you think Bitcoin has a value, and you provide something (hashing) for the mining rewards.

Reformulated, the poll question could be: Do you acknowledge Bitcoin has a value even if it doesn't reach a new ATH?

This is important because of the points I explained before to @traderethereum and @buwaytress. Basically, because the size of the groups that answer this question in a certain way, determinates in part what could happen with Bitcoin's price in the future.

The only "use" case that doesn't involve exchanging Bitcoin (and thus, acknowledging its value) is when you got Bitcoin for free in some way, for example if you mined with your CPU or used a faucet in 2010, and now you're spending the coins without re-buying. This special case is however not very frequent, so I didn't add an extra answer option for it.

https://i.imgur.com/6oBUQIb.png

Image or poll results shows that majority doesnt really mind off too much about ATH yet its importance is shown via its usage or utility.
Im not saying that price isnt important but people here on this community do knows on what they're dealing with.

Many people doesn't seems to be believe that w could reach that for now since we don't have any clear insight since we are facing a big economic challenge right now, Although many people are not believing it for sure there's still hope coming since I believe this things will came up when people will see some new hype coming from it. So best to deal with the current price and make a move on the current market movement to gain.

It would be interesting to know the "weight" of these opinions. I mean what assets each of the groups of voters owns. The likelihood that speculators own most of the bitcoins and view them as a means of earning money, but not as a means of payment.

This would of course be interesting, this would give even more insights about the possible outcome of the situation I described with a long time without ATH. Obviously if whales were mostly in the "No" group, and the "No" group is the biggest one, then you can expect a much deeper crash.

But to know that would require a much more complex poll. I don't see that really possible without an online panel mechanism. The current number of answers is also far too low to draw any conclusions from it.

I wonder who and why answered "I dont know". Are these two persons without their own opinion ?

Personaly, I've chosen first option. If it doesnt help me to make money, then why would I use it? Payments - I can still use fiat savings - same fiat, trades can also be made with stock and bonds. Stay anonymous - we have monero and other shitcoins :D

The opinion of the whales is important in terms of determining the price, but the opinion of ordinary users (who are the majority) is decisive in terms of the prospects - if no one needs a tool, then no whales can do anything with its price.

As for the representativeness of the survey, then I completely agree with you. Maybe we can make some rough estimates if you compare the volume of transactions (throwing out large ones) with the total capitalization?

I probably would want to hold my value in anti inflationary things because if BTC can only stay the same amount in USD or go down that is not a good store of value.
Its convenient for payments sometimes but not really idk the time min block time and no one willing to take 0 confirmation transactions kills it for utility
At this point Bitcoin has lost a lot of utility in being better money for convenience and cost transaction fees are high now.
the one thing it still has is its a great store of value like gold

You wouldnt know if they had just misclicked or totally blanked out on what they have read or on whats the thing in op posted but well it isnt really that much as an issue
yet each people would have their own corresponding reasoning or views towards thing.On the question itself if the price would not reach new ATH?
Who the hell would able to know such stuff? no man will able to know on whats the future but if we do presume out that it cant already able to reach those levels
then people or majority will continue on using it via payment and other transactions and yes you can possibly do it with fiat but having more options is better.

Probably would still invest into it. Using it is a bit of impossible in my country since no services are accepting it as a mode of payment. But I would still invest into it even if it won't again reach its ATH. Its market value wluld still be increasing in random times, buying and selling at a "right" time would still generate profit.
I actually believe but still mentioned the possibility that it won't reach the ATH record. The market is unpredictable so how come people know that it has assurance of reaching such market value again without hesitation of saying it? Things could go well and not. But the actions you would do, matters the most.

One thing is for sure, it is not as easy at it may sound.

Compared to saving it in a bank, holding it in your wallet is much better than letting it sit in a bank and I'm also using it to buy some stuff and paying for my subscriptions so I am very much ok even if it reach another all time high, but it's unlikely that it will not reach another all time high bull or bear market Bitcoin will always have an all time high.

 I do not understand what people were expecting. People care about how much money they can make, and if the price is right now at around 12k and the ATH is 20k, that means it could go towards 19k and make you almost a double profit right now if it reaches there. If the price drops to 5k and goes to 10k again it would be under this current price but you could sell now buy at bottom and sell at 10k to make a double profit again.

So, the price doesn't matter, people do not care about the price, price could be anything it wants, what people care about is how much money they could make from bitcoin and as long as we can all profit from bitcoin I wouldn't mind if it is from 10k to 20k, if it is 5k to 10k or even 500 dollars to 1k dollars, I only care about my own pocket.

I agree. It is much better to let your funds inside your bitcoin wallet, instead of storing it or letting it sit in a bank because it is really not worth it. No one can also tell that bitcoin would not reach it's new ATH price because bitcoin is always been unpredictable due to it's volatility, and a lot of people in the past years have already said that bitcoin will not reach it's ATH price, but it can still reach it.

The question is really interesting, since all the options proposed by users will be clear examples of how you can use Bitcoin upon reaching a stable historical high, knowing that the price will no longer rise higher. Then Bitcoin, as always, can be used as a safe haven for your money, since Bitcoin is much more profitable than any national fiat currency, and you can also use it as a means of payment.