Bitcoin Forum

This company in South Korea is figuring out that once a cyber criminal, always a cyber criminal. They found that two separate big crypto crimes shared the same exchange account for onramping or offramping. Of course most of it was done with Bitcoin. Don't know how it will get better before getting worse.

https://thenews.asia/hyungoo-kim-tracking-cryptocurrency-cyber-crimes/

I honestly don't know how I feel about this. While I obviously do want these cybercriminals to be found and arrested, I have a bad feeling whenever I see the words "Bitcoin" and "tracking" in the same sentence. It only looks like the "let's find a way to identify BTC users" plot thickens every day.

Reading through the lines, my previous statement is further confirmed. So how are we going to flag criminal wallets so that they cannot be used in the future? Because that's censorship, and Bitcoin is a censorship-free cryptocurrency.

As others have told me in a previous thread of mine about mixers, at one point we will most likely all own Bitcoins that came from addresses that have been used in criminal activity or in mixers. So are we going to flag all these addresses? How do you censor a censorship-free system?

Yeah I feel you on being uneasy about tracking and flagging wallets. Seems like something a centralized system would have levied on it. That said, countries have their best interests in mind. The crimes being committed with cryptos in SK seem pretty bad so they probably want to mitigate that any way they can.

Its easy to track they say.  Its their project so if they can track criminals and put it in a database then tis their call. Blockchain tracks can be used to build cases and proof just how as we find it useful in finance.

Korean exchanges and probably the rest of the exchanges in Asia like Binance had already grabbed a lot of information from us as part of their database to scrape.

And the worst feeling ever is when the words Bitcoin and crime/criminal are in the same sentence. That's when Bitcoin is dismissed as a dirty currency. And, as such, it has to be severely regulated in such a way that its wings are clipped hard. This means government resources and powers are utilized to arrest the freedom that Bitcoin is providing to the people.

When these two words are almost equated, that's when the mere mention of Bitcoin evokes fear in people and a stereotype is created.


I guess it is not enough to implement the likes of KYC and all. There might come a time when people will have to register their Bitcoin address. :D

bad feeling? that thing that you're thinking is already happening. Bitcoin tracking, blockchain analysis, tracking of users, etc, none of that is new to the crypto ecosystem. The latest news about Coinbanse^[1] was pretty much a confirmation that big exchanges are working hand-to-hand with the govt

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1. https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/71261/coinbase-is-selling-blockchain-analytics-software-to-the-us-secret-service

There are a lot of people are making a crime with the use of the cryptocurrency because they think no one will detect and find out them because with the use of the transactions they made but they are wrong because once you are a criminal into the world of the internet let's say you are a hacker everything you made there is a digital footprint this is called for the things we are doing to the Internet and we can not avoid leaving a footprint on it that's why they caught immediately I don't think so why they are still doing this job because this is an illegal I know they want to earn money but still there is another way to do this.

That's the reason why some of the platforms requiring the use of the KYC so they can verify all of their users and avoid getting too many problems and the help if there is. trouble might happen with their platform even in data.

It is difficult in the sense most people want to trade anonymously but bad eggs are using it in a wrong way. Cryptoscam addresses are being stamped but the problem is that when it is being mixed, the scammer receive a new coin into addresses that were not be stamped. The only way forward is if the mixing services can detect crypto from addresses associated with scam which might be generally against their services. I literally think it is impossible to separate tracking from bitcoin if you want to retrieve stolen coin

Yet they can't be trace, what can we do more for bitcoin address flagging? we can't do much on that thing tho, they can just create bitcoin addresses with simple clicks. All we can do is track all the transaction interconnected to the addresses made for scam and fraud, then we can just warn the others to stay away from those addresses and that's it. It would be more challenging for a particular organization to find these criminals than they think of it. So it is more like of just an online blotter, nothing more, nothing less.

I'm getting a bad feeling as in I feel like it's only getting worse every time a new article pops up with these two terms.

This shows how silly and lazy the world has become. It literally takes you one "USD used in crimes in 2019" Google search to find out how manipulated you get by reading the press. Personal opinion: most of the people who get different things shaped up in their minds the wrong way are the same people who only read article titles and get to a conclusion solely based on them.

I understand there are criminals out there, but it's not my fault and I don't think it's right for them to take yet another right/freedom away from me because a douche is using BTC for his illegal activity. Nor is it okay at all to try censoring a free currency. This is probably going to be a continuous cat-and-mouse chasing game where at one point there's going to be a winner: the authorities or us.

There surely has been an instance even you have been through where you paid in cash at a shop and the banknotes you've used have once been used in an assassination or some other crime. This "used in crimes" excuse is just without sense .. honestly. It's a stupid excuse for abusive control.

Yes and that surprises me! I know bitcoin is not completely anonymous. But unless and until the money is flown into a regulated business like exchanges, payment services, it's very difficult to track the sender. So this bold statement is really surprising. Quote from the article below,


But at the end of the day, innocent people shouldn't be tracked and questioned for no reason. In any way, if someone is not related to any crime, they should be safe!

Exchanges can freeze an account if anything needs to be investigated, you can actually see this on their terms and conditions, by this authority ( cyber crime group ) can enter the scene to look for something shady in relation to any crime that can be committed online. Tracking is easy, in fact every one can do this since the blockchain is publicly stored however the tracing for who is the one using the address is nearly impossible, I haven't heard any one that has been tracked because they located their IP, just remember the fact that IP can be faked using VPNs.

Companies like chainalyses can easily track BTC already so that´s not the point. I´m afraid to gain more users and to reach some sort of mass adoption it needs to be safer to use Bitcoin, perceived safer from the newbies! A criminal database could help emowering that feel of security, again especially for rookies

Our government over here passed a bill sometime last year to regulate posts made on social media, it was called the social media bill, and the excuse was that people used their social media accounts to defame the government. But in truth, it's more of used to expose to the rest of the world how corrupt and inefficient the government is.

You and i should not be surprised with how governments make excuses to suit their own policies, when India banned Chinese apps, the excuse was China were spying on their citizens, but the true reason is the border war between the two countries. Ironically, bitcoin being used in crimes is really very microscopic in scale, fiat covers more than 90% of the tools used in crimes or money laundering; the government only want censorship, they want to regulate/mediate it, so we're being presented with the best possible excuse as usual.

It's as if most of them are finding a way or two to monitor the movements of people, and are just using the words "criminals' vaguely to further their agenda and have a justification on what they do. I do not condone criminal activities and any activities relating to it, but if it crosses the line on civilian's privacy and right to keep their information safe and secure, that's when I step up. Besides, there are tons of analysis tools that law enforcement use to catch criminals on their feet doing nefarious things, why add yet another method on doing so? Idk, perhaps they are exaggerating their response to criminal activities concerning crypto, when in reality most of the dirty stuff happens in fiat.

There is no way to disable to an address at the protocol level without a fork, which obviously the community will never agree to. So the best they can do is build a database of "flagged" addresses and appeal to centralized exchanges and services to refuse service to these addresses.

How is that a viable option, though. They can't stop those coins from moving, so what if the coins are mixed? What if they are sent to an exchange which doesn't follow the blacklist? What if they take part in a coinjoin transaction? Do you add every known output of said mixer or exchange to the blacklist? Do you blacklist every output from the coinjoin? What if the coins are simply sent to a new address? What about after 10 transactions? 100? 1000? How many addresses do you blacklist? It's a completely untenable solution, and soon enough, every bitcoin in circulation will have been tainted in some way.

I'm all for identifying and apprehending individuals who steal other user's money, but I draw at line at when doing so infringes on my rights. Whenever there is talk about banning encryption, banning bitcoin, banning privacy, then not only do you lose my support, but you also reveal that you don't know what you are talking about.

The only option they have is pushing for mandatory KYC for any kind of usage of BTC, with no more anonymous limits. Feels like they're slowly starting to whisper "KYC isn't enough anymore, guys", doesn't it?

Their "anti-criminal strategy" falls off a huge cliff the moment you start wondering how these hackers will cash out.. because they are most likely not that stupid to ever move their coins to a centralized exchange anyway. They'll probably use Bisq or other p2p methods in combination with mixers to get through unseen, so how useful is this blockchain identification thing then if the ways they'll cash out are KYC-less anyway?

Is it really useful in the case of preventing cybercrimes or is it not useful at all and just a pretext to try and take a good grip over the control/surveillance handle? Will it do more criminal prevention than it will harm the average Joe's privacy?

We'll probably reach the boiling point the moment they'll ask you to show your ID whenever you want to pay with or use crypto for the same excuse: Crime prevention.

Of course not, but that's never stopped governments before. Facial recognition scanners on the streets, despite the fact they don't work and don't reduce crime. Attempting to force backdoors in to services like WhatsApp, ignoring of course the hundreds of other methods criminals will use to communicate instead. Attempting to ban encryption, despite the fact that doing so is impossible. Wide-scale mass surveillance, despite it not reducing crime. It's the same nonsense "Won't you think of the children!" argument, just being applied to bitcoin. It's an excuse to increase their control over the population, not to reduce crime.

Some services already do that. BitPay for example, one of the worst anti-bitcoin/anti-privacy services, demand KYC from customers, not just merchants, over a certain spending limit. Thankfully, you will always be able to trade bitcoin peer-to-peer. The more and more difficult centralized services like these make it to pay or trade with bitcoin, the faster they accelerate their own downfall.

And what did we expect? To have broader and broader use of Bitcoin and services and that everything will remain the same? Including the illegal use of Bitcoin?
Of course not, Bitcoin should also fit into legal framework and that means that we need to sacrifice a part of of our privacy and anonimity and there is no sense in fighting it.

Bitcoin mixer is the dead end for all the investigation in case this blockchain criminal database will be implement. There is no way to track a transaction that process by mixer. This article show us that Bitcoin is traceable and not anonymous at all.


The only reason I used Bitcoin because it was anonymous and decentralized. If ever this feature will be compromised then it's not really the use case of bitcoin. We should not compromise our privacy in exchange for finding this criminal. Exchange must tighten there security because the problem starts there or maybe they cooperate with them.

Of course Bitcoin per se is not complete anonymous.

For me this is already bonderline censorship, and I don't like the idea of our addresses being registered as well, worst idea. I guess criminals will again try to outsmart they investigators, they can used mixers which they have done so, or use other coins besides Bitcoin and the most logical choice will be Monero, which has started already.

(https://www.coindesk.com/argentine-telecom-hackers-demanded-7-5-million-in-crypto-as-ransom)

It would be great if they can track the criminals, every website should have those futures that they can track people once there would be cybercrimes happen. It would be great because they will have a record of information about those things. One thing about it is that there are many hackers in this virtual world, we cannot deny those people because they are really expert with that thin they can really access your accounts or they can enter the back end of the website once it is not really secured. We should always have a backup for our files, which is necessary if you want to secure your data.

Nonsense. Centralized exchanges need to fit in to the legal framework, and you need to sacrifice your privacy to use them. There is no requirement to sacrifice your privacy to use bitcoin, and the day I have to complete KYC simply to use my own wallet is the day I sell all my bitcoin.

Not necessarily. There was a very interesting thesis posted on this forum last year which found it was potentially possible to break almost all mixing services and link incoming and outgoing transactions together. The only mixer which couldn't be broken was ChipMixer due to its unique mixing methods. You can read the thesis here: Breaking Mixing Services (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5117328.0).

Database can be used to anyone who is in crypto sphere. So if you for once had tried posting your BTC or ETH address somewhere and they learned its yours, the authorities can just try sending some BTC to your account so they can interrogate you. This hasn't yet happening so far but there is no way that our wallets can deny coins sent to it.

For someone who has no connection to terrorism but suddenly receives coin from known or flagged wallets, it could destroy you and your kid's life.

You are right, once you are a cybercriminal, you will be always a cyber-criminal. Whatever the condition, cybercriminals always attack very simply. In my country, the criminal is caught and arrested after being a cybercriminal for several years previously. And he was arrested after doing that criminal in some years. So, does it mean that it is possible for the criminals to be caught and also arrested?

I believe that the way they use and transfer the BTC will never use their primary identification because it will sometimes need the account identification. It means that as long as they are use the centralized exchange, they may be revelaed.

Well its always the case. I can agree to it.
The known criminal offenders are going to be the suspects. People who are tagged as sex offenders will usually be the first suspects when there is rape crime in the neighborhood. This pattern will also reflect in cyber crime. If you notice it, the scammers caught today can be tracked that they have actually scam before on differnet platform.



So now those who uses decentralize exchanges mgiht just be closedlt watched under thier radar.

What this means that in the future people will get their coins frozen when they send them to exchange if there's some link to criminal activity. Maybe you got unfortunate and there's just a few hops between your coin and some darknet market. Would they unlock your coins after you contact their support and try to explain the situation? Probably no, knowing how bad the customer support of exchanges usually is.

Probably, if the trackers seen activities with criminals wallet, expect that
this will happen to your coin.


This is really annoying as you can't do anything once there's relations with
your wallet add and illegalities.


But you don't have any options, you have to work with your money to the point
that you'll provide everything.
You'll might get some chance but the delayed that will take place will annoyed
you while waiting for your money.

There's no way they'll actually block wallets because if even possible that would require the consensus and serious changes. What they can do is make a database of Bitcoin addresses that are known to belong to scammers and make sure that, say, exchanges don't allow deposits from these addresses. I think this would be an okay move, and it doesn't even mean that the identities of many people will be revealed. It will just be a kind of blacklist for addresses. However, I am not sure how efficient this solution is because scammers can use mixers to ensure that their money is not traced. So then the authorities should make mixers check through the database as well, but all this is resourceful and there will still be ways of getting around it. And yeah, some people might suffer from the system without actually being scammers. So there's more bad in this than good.

A centralized data base which allows all exchanges, mixers, and other trading platforms/services to automatically freeze a suspicious addresses is the most possible solution to this.
If the crypto enthusiast won't work to get rid or at least track these activities, I'm afraid that the governments will be the one to take actions to this since Bitcoin has been tagged into so many criminal activities in the digital world.

Now, I understand how so many of us are concerned about the mixers as the most useful tool for scammers to ran away without getting tracked. If all mixers has the integrity to serve their clients honestly, they must use the database to block and freeze a scammer addresses.

Not unless you could provide solid proof that you sold or traded the coins to another party, which would be very hard to come by and would require handing over some ridiculously invasive KYC and personal information. And even then, the chances would be slim.

I can't disagree with this any more strongly. The day a mixer starts trying to identify me, look me up on a blacklist, and generally try to monitor how I use my own money, is the day I stop using that mixer and call them out for being a scam.

I am still struggling to understand why people who are supposed to be bitcoin advocates are talking about handing control over to a centralized third party. This is the complete antithesis of bitcoin. If you want to use a currency that can be arbitrarily frozen or seized, then there are hundreds of fiat currencies and thousands of centralized shitcoins you can choose from. Keep that nonsense away from bitcoin.

Scamming is taking place every day using cryptocurrency as a tool. It is not going to be completely eradicated in any way. If a government wants to stop scams for its country, it must take strong action. The first step is to identify the crypto criminals. The way the South Korean company is looking for cyber criminals. Actually a good move.

I guess it's just a criminal database with the filter of crypto related cyber crimes  ;D
Well it's not bad if someone is trying to maintain a databse just for crypto related cryber crimes but I don't know what benefits will it bring to the crypto community. All I can think of right now is that once a criminal is identified for crypto crime and if the same person tries to do a crypto crime again then he will be easily identified for the crime. Though it won't benefit much, it is definitely a good step for crypto crimes taking place in the crypto community.

I don't think it is possible to commit any crime without proof. Those who have been engaged in this line must have a good knowledge about it. And they can catch them by looking at the invisible footprints online if they want. The government of every country should identify cyber criminals and bring them under the law and punish them.

Cryptocurrency is not bad, since it was created it has made a lot of things easy. I know a few of my friends who whenever I want to send money to them it was always difficult without Bitcoin, I used to make use of SWIFT codes and other methods that banks has to offer and it was really stressful whenever I have to send money to them or them send to me. I had to go to the bank and things gets worse when there are crowd in the bank, I will have to wait to get the form and then sign all those paperwork. And then the transactions take some days.

But since we made up our minds to be using Bitcoin, it’s no longer hard duty, they will just send me the address on my WhatsApp and I will quickly copy and send the money to them, and pay lesser fees. Cryptocurrency is a good invention, just that criminals are now using it for fulfilling their criminal activities.

This is what I fear will happen more and more, committing criminal acts using cryptocurrency. This is one reason why cryptocurrency is
difficult to accept by ordinary people. What's more scary is that more platforms will require KYC procedures. It is difficult eliminated
criminals from the world of cryptocurrency, therefore I strongly support what South Korea is doing with building criminals database related
cryptocurrency. Because criminals usually do repeat crimes.

The only reason why I came up to that idea is because I feel very frustrated with how Bitcoin had a lot of holes where criminal activities can easily be done without being tracked easily as well.
And no, I didn't mean to hand over the control to these third party companies, that's why I mentioned "Integrity and honesty". They can look at the database of suspicious addresses without going over to the unnecessary ones I guess. This are just my opinion anyway.

Nevertheless, you made a strong point with your statement.

If those criminals use Bitcoin for criminal activities then it could be a bad move. As we know, all the transaction made in Bitcoin are publicly displayed in the Blockchain api (site).
So these criminals will surely cannot do anything they want with their stolen Bitcoins. I guess this is one of the perks of having a pseudonymous system.

It's not accidental btw, this seems like a intentional or at least very convenient repeated coincidence. I mean remember current news cycles care mostly about clicks and nothing rustles peoples jimmies like the combination of these two. You just have to follow the money and you'll see what I'm talking about.

It sucks, really. But many new technologies were feared before they were accepted / commonplace, bitcoin is no exception to this norm, people fear what they don't understand and that's okay

Sure, I can appreciate that, but look at any other piece of modern technology. The internet can be used by criminals without being easily tracked. Encryption can be used by criminals and make it impossible to have their communications read. Tor can be used by criminals and make it very difficult to de-anonymize them. Cold hard fiat can be completely untraceable. The solution to these problems is not to start banning bitcoin addresses, banning Tor, banning encryption, censoring the internet, etc., but rather to crack down on criminal behavior.

The vast majority of crypto media cannot be called "news". They are low quality blog posts, more often than not containing incorrect information written by someone who has done zero research, lifted some posts from here/reddit/twitter, and doesn't even understand the subject matter or the terms they are using. CoinIdol, Cointelegraph, and sites like them are clickbait trash.

That's why I love blockchain. You can't hide anything, no matter how hard you try, no matter how much you want, the blockchain allows you to see everything. Even if you use a bitcoin mixer, everything is exactly possible to understand the original wallet.
I am not a supporter of de-anonization, however, given the youth of the crypto market, and how much it suffers from all kinds of scam, we probably have nothing but to create such a base to isolate dirty bitcoins. Although I doubt that there are no loopholes to launder them.

And some people still think that it's an anonymous currency for online drug dealers and hackers. ;) The ignorance and stupidity have no boundaries.

Of course you can launder money through cryptocurrencies but with Bitcoin it's quite difficult especially with the KYC procedures on almost every single exchange. You can make up credentials, get fake IDs but all of it leaves a trace that can be later used to get you. You're only safe if you find a way to exchange coins anonymously. No amount of mixing can save you if they really want to get you.

I'd be very interested to know how they could track criminals using the blockchain though. We are already a regulated market and so they could get access if Uppsala Security will be considered by authorities. The number of criminals increases as we get more users on board in crypto.


And so the dex are perfect to used which I guess Hyungwoo Kim will have a hard time.

To build a criminal database one would need the information of everyone who is involved in this therefore this would genuinely hurt the Privacy part of the cryptocurrencies like Bitcoins.
This would create problems for the Investors and for the network itself. It would more or so make the cryptocurrencies a Centralized body , there have been events that makes me think that this would happen in the future soon:
-KYC is being demanded by most of the wallet companies
-Due to KYC the bank accounts are being connected and information is being sent to the government body
-.-
I do think it should be done only when an investigation is being done therefore it would actually be justifiable.

This step may cause 2 things :
-Completely eradicate the privacy
-eradicate the chance that could have been given to those people who made a mistake , I think everyone needs that chance no matter what.

Building a criminal database using the blockchain technology is a good idea but it would have to compromise on privacy. This is the greatest challenge, going against what BTC was built for.

However, the benefit of it is that once a persons's details are entered in the database, well this is made public, but the great advantage is that power and money won't have much effect in erasing the data. So in a way it levels the playing field of criminality for both the power and the reach, bringing that inequality gap slight closer.

Any "wallet" which demands KYC is not a wallet at all. It is a third party custodial service, and should be avoided. You should hold your own keys in your own wallet, not trust someone else to do it for you.

Why not? This database is going to have to be centralized, so what is to stop someone paying or bribing the owners to have their name removed from it? Similarly, how does adding someone's name prevent them from scamming in the future? They can create a new wallet completely unlinked to their previously identified wallets and addresses in 10 seconds.

Kim who leads the project has a good argument and he is completely right.

We are seeing that cyber attacks around cryptocurrencies are proliferating, it is time to be forceful to prevent hackers from getting away with it.

He suggests identifying the hackers' wallets and flag them so that they cannot be used.

You can really see this in their terms and conditions, cyber crime groups can enter the scene to find something shady in connection with any crime that can be committed online. What's more, tracking is easy, in fact anyone can do this because the blockchain is kept public, but searching for who uses that address is almost impossible, I've never heard of anyone being traced because they found their IP

Why are you worried about the criminal database and why do you think about privacy for these criminals. There is a clear misunderstanding from what you understand about bitcoin, when you have a public blockchain where you can monitor the money trail from the moment the coin is mined and how come you came to a conclusion that privacy is the main aim of bitcoin.

All lovers of Bitcoin will fill same way as has been expressed. Yet there is much to do to relieve Bitcoin from the shackles of criminals who are using it for illegal activities.

yes, bitcoin must have a legal environment because in any case today bitcoin cannot be owned by crypto criminals, it needs a special agency that handles bitcoin and also exchanges if there is a criminal track in the database, so it is easy to trace if there are suspicious bitcoin transactions or reports lost bitcoin due to theft and hack

We know that all transactions are well recorded on the Blockchain. Both the sender's BTC address, the amount of BTC, and the date the transaction was made are all on the Blockchain. But what happens if the hacker makes a transaction via Mixer? Isn't a mixer used to maintain user privacy? Sometimes I think KYC is important .

They can flag and track wallet until the cows come home. You still can't prove someone owns said wallet. You can say their pc was used or remotely used to access said wallet but you cannot prove it was them or their wallet.
It is like having someones IP address. government has tracked that for years and years. If they track bitcoin addresses that's fine. Good luck to them if they feel that is what will protect the county from crime then so be it.
I don't think we have anything to worry about.

The creation of such databases on cybercriminals and the wallets and other resources they use should be dealt with by law enforcement agencies. They are still practically inactive. Well, let various commercial structures collect data on this for now. Perhaps this information will be useful in the future.

I can vouch for the flagging and tracking of the wallet but when you said that it can't prove that it was the culprit then you might be underestimating the investigations of the cyber police and law enforcement at that. I think the part where the computer was used by a third party is very unlikely because if you are responsible then you will not be acquainted to this sticky situation, plus why would the culprit go to the lengths of accessing other computer when they can just get softwares that help them hide their online footprints.

actually crypto crimes will be easy to detect because they always make very large suspicious transactions. but we can only watch and cannot do anything because there is no authority or legal entity that can supervise it. crime in crypto will always exist and for sure we have to be careful not to be targeted by cyber criminals

Fortunately for law enforcement, cryptocurrency cyber crimes are easy to track. Every single transaction on the Bitcoin and Ethereum blockchains are recorded and immutable, meaning they are permanent and cannot be altered. Therefore, the transaction history of every wallet, including those on exchanges, can be tracked from the instant they are created.

Crime in crypto will continue to exist as scammers and hackers are all residing inside the same market with us.

We can track them but chasing them without any implemented rules inside this
sphere, it will be hard to convict  them inside decentralized market like crypto.

Unless there's certain policy that governs, it's still possible to chase them and let
them pay for what they've done.

Alas, mixing is a great way. Of course you can find these bitcoins after mixing with a lot of effort, but does it give you something?
Bitcoin is not regulated, leaves a trace only in the blockchain, all we can try to block the exit of "dubious" bitcoins anywhere, but this is solved through the use of mixers.

You lost me there, what were the ways to cash out kyc-less again? Most fiat ramps i know need at least a bank account, and getting big sums of cash to your bank account raises questions. We got kyc now even in BTC 2 cash ATMs.

These days even in person to person trades are worrying me, because my accounts might get connected to something illegal the other person is doing. Also dealing with large cash sums raises questions of the origin too.

crypto crime in cyberspace is real. what often happens is hacking, because many hackers misuse their knowledge to commit crimes just because they want to get a profit. This is very scary and should be avoided. We know that bitcoin is very expensive and it makes people very eager to own it

Actually it is not difficult to track Bitcoin transactions, as we know Bitcoin is not completely anonymous. But related crimes involving
Bitcoin are currently increasing, perhaps because the price of Bitcoin is getting more expensive. Many criminals think hacking Bitcoin
is the best way to get rich, and also criminals think Bitcoin is guaranteed 100% privacy. Even though the reality is not like that, one
example of a twitter hacker who hacked into a famous account was finally caught. Then related to building crypto criminals databases
is not the best way to prevent crimes in the cryptocurrency world. Because criminals can create multiple Bitcoin addresses and can also
use service mixers.

There are plenty companies out there who already do that, they research and catalogue BTC transactions and their addresses. They sell their services to banks and other instutions .
For example if a bank falgs someones transactions , asks prrof, client gives them proof of BTC transactions, bank can give this to the company and ask them if the transactions are criminally associated.

Why would we want to do that? Why would we want to create two tiers of bitcoin, one "clean" and one "dubious"? Why would we want to undermine the fungibility of bitcoin?

Peer to peer trading and decentralized exchanges such as Bisq and LocalCryptos, using pretty much any method you like from cash in person, bank transfers, money orders, through to PayPal, Skrill, Perfect Money.

I always wonder why people are so greedy. Well, you have committed a crime, for example, earned a few million dollars on it that will last you for the rest of your days, and also your children, too. Why are you going to do this again putting yourself in danger of losing everything and going to prison where you will eat unleavened porridge? Unclear.

Even if we want to create tiers of bitcoin, labeling the goodness or the badness of it is very pointless. As far as the small denomination is concern, you can't tell which is which. I got 0.001btc that I got from a hacker, I told him to send it to my personal wallet address which contains 1btc from my worked hard money, would it make sense that there is a 0.001btc that came from the hacker to call my entire owned bitcoin dubious? Bitcoins will be just bitcoins, that's it. The goodness and the badness relies to the users, that's what we should be wary of.

The analysts doesn't think that way, they will always paint your wallet red on their analysis tool since you have transacted with that hacker bitcoins, I guess there can be a way to save those coins from getting red paint, as the transactions are always generated from the input of the funds already deposited in your account, so you can send your 1 BTC minus the fees for that transaction to another wallet so that the transaction doesn't add the remaining input of the hacker's transaction, then your 1 BTC will be saved. Also, most of the exchanges will start using these analysis tools, which some are already using, there was a person on the forum who said that he washed his coins through a mixer and by chance the coins were mixed with those of the hacker and then he deposited his coins to an exchange and the exchange denied to deposit those coins to his wallet because those coins were tainted.

That sounds terrifying when all your savings will be mixed with a coin from a known hacker. The fungibility is always going to be at risk when coins enter to an exchange when you don't know what are sent to your wallet.  

We don't know what rules the exhcnage or government wil be creating for it yet but they might assume you are part of the network after all one tomato mixed to a basket of tomatoes will likely make them all rotten in less than a week.

So you want taxpayers money to be wasted by making stupid system/projects like this? I mean why do we need a "crypto" criminal database? If a person commits a crime, using bitcoin or any other method, he is a criminal. You don't need to separately point a person just become he committed a crime using crypto currencies. The project sounds more like they are trying to show people crypto currencies are bad.
Every country already has a central database for criminals. We don't need a new database to keep "crypto" criminals.

That is something new. Would it work like a real bounty rewards system? On where you will personally caught the wanted criminals then get rewards per the level of crime done by that criminal. That system can be really dangerous and can only work if the users using that system are part of the military and police force. They can also use the entire police record and should really coordinate with police force if they want something to work like that since all records are confidential.

have you checked this?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5266786.0

a project that contains information about abusive addresses.
https://crypto-scam.io/

you can give your contribution by reporting abusive addresses as well.

How hard it would be to solve cases if there will be a criminal database and its cover is the people from all over the world. This is somehow a big job but if all the justice system work together as one in the whole world or just even in their own country to implement then that would be better with no bias in judgement. However, if we were only talking data base of the criminals without putting them to jail then I guess as early as now we have to stop this plan to implement or make this database for crypto criminal. There is no good creating like when it will not be working.

BTCBTC All lovers of Bitcoin will fill same way as has been expressed. Yet there is much to do to relieve Bitcoin from the shackles of criminals who are using it for illegal activities.

Bitcoin is one of the most widely used scams in today's world. There are many people who have lost everything through bitcoin scamming. If the South Korean company could find out the source of the scam, the common man would benefit a lot. However, it is better to say that some innocent people may come under the law. As is often the case in Asian countries because Bitcoin has been declared illegal in these countries.

I agree that as some point BTC should proliferate in enough hands that almost every wallet could potentially hold some amount of tainted coins. Now i am guessing that it would be practically impossible for any government to blacklist taint every wallet, it would be easier to simply issue an outright ban on the Use of Bitcoin. I think here that these chain analysis companies and law enforcement might than try and target larger wallets for the sake of efficiency or maybe target wallets containing more than a certain threshold of tainted coins say 30-40%.

But i suppose that once we can implement Schnorr and taproot and true privacy into Bitcoin it should become much more difficult for anyone to impose censorship like this into Bitcoin. That being said it would also make it more attractive to cyber criminals which could than be likely to create more government distrust in cryptocurrencies.

This we have noticed before that he goes against his father's word many times. In today's world, money is in the hands of the young generation and they do a lot of things.
Most of it is invested behind gambling and drugs. Honestly, many men don't waste less money on women. From that point of view, his son did not do a bad job by investing in Bitcoin. I don't think it's a bad investment although he did the opposite of his father's advise.

I would create a trust base with crypto companies and persons. This would be most effective

Looks like a good idea for the record, but to be honest i don't think a Database will stop them to keep scamming people. Is about time to see the mafias and cartel interested in bitcoin and when that happens, then a hard time will come to the crypto world.

I will keep an eye on that DB and search for more of the same kind.

it doesnt but it this is only useful for us people  . we can look on that database if we have been scammed on the past and see if we saw familiar face or familiar details , etc  .  that way our case can possibly be resolved and this also help us avoid them in the future  .

  if a criminal got caught and he cant make himself out of the prison , that stops them for doing bad things so it is really possible to stop someone by the help of this database  but if the criminal  get outs , he can do the same thing again  .

I am not sure about whether there is a need for a crypto criminal database while there is already a criminal database on every country. Maybe I am wrong and maybe I could be missing a point but I am indecisive about it could change anything or not.

If there are big attacks to the exchanges and even to individuals who are holding a big amount of money in their wallet it will be good if there is a way to freeze the wallet of the hacker. I've been thinking if this is possible so the hacks can be lessen as they cannot use the money that they stole.

I am also wondering if someone can build a database for criminals and it can be access by anyone freely so new comers and crypto users have some informations about the hackers that are lurking out there.

But I guess it would be hard to track those money that had been mixed in certain crypto-mixers such as Chipmixer. It strengthens a certain crypto's anonymity and deletes all of the possible footprints of where a crypto came from. But if such algorithm or an AI would be made to track each and every possible bite of footprint from a certain crypto wallet, then it isn't just criminals that could be arrested, but also those whom used mixers to mix their money for a better privacy.

It is really impossible to track all lurking criminals out there that uses Bitcoin/cryptocurrencies for their activities. Making it possible would risk the anonymity of the crypto users and even the whole crypto-world itself.

Database with illegal BTC turnover or suspicious transactions has long existed! It's just that not everyone has access to it! By the way, I read that even a person who uses Wasabi Wallet can get into it... Since any mixers attract the attention of law enforcement agencies!
This is done by such companies (https://www.chainalysis.com/) and for quite a long time! In fact, all of us have been watching for a long time! ;D

There is a huge difference between a theoretical database of actual criminals and what blockchain analysis companies such as Chainalysis are doing. If Chainalysis are following the trial of some "tainted" bitcoin through a number of transactions, how can they reliably tell when it has changed hands? What about when it gets passed through a mixer or a coinjoin? Does the trial go cold, or do they now class all the outputs from that mixer or that coinjoin as "tainted"? And just because something was mixed does not mean it was illegal - we know that the majority of mixers' traffic is coins directly from exchanges from users simply looking to increase in their privacy.

First, there is no such need. Just as illegal mass surveillance has never been proven to stop a single crime or terrorist attack, a "crypto criminal database" would be nothing more than a tool for the government to spy on and monitor its citizens. Secondly, that's not what that article says at all. Here's a direct quote (emphasis mine):

Cash has always been, and still is, the preferred medium of exchanges for criminals.

There are already criminal databases in every country but this specific database for crypto criminals may help fraud rate decrease in the industry substantially. I hope this system won't be indicated as needless.   

Yeap, that is true but OP was talking about the database for cryptocurrency thief. I think it could be added as a general data base for criminals to which every country should share. I think it is possible to country that are friends or allied as we all know that not all countries are havig good relationship like north korea and south korea. In this matter, creating database for cryptocurrency theif is will be decentralized too depending on the country if they will going to add cryptocurrency thief to their existing data base for the criminals.

Do you mean creating a database of people who are involved in crypto crimes? From this solution I thought of turning blockchain technology into a database / datawarehouse of known crypto identities and addresses. I created the same thing but with different data meanings, we can make the data transparent and fill the block with criminals' data, the advantage is that the data cannot be manipulated.

Bitcoin’s reputation has been tainted because of criminal and illegal activities. That’s why the government is itching to put their hands on our community to regulate. This is a really exhausting scenario because if that happens, bitcoin would no longer have a decentralized nature. It would suppress the freedom of users in the cryptocurrency world.

The majority are resorting to making illegal transactions to generate more money. These people use some kind of tools and algorithms that could make the address untraceable. However, not everyone is a smooth criminal, hence they were caught by the law enforcers.

If acts like these would continue, for sure most exchanger platforms would require every user to provide their personal information (use of KYC). I just hope it won’t happen because there would be no sense at all if anonymity would be sacrificed.

With the increase in crime cases in the crypto world, every country should build a crypto criminal database. It is true that every country
already has a criminal database in general, but to prevent the development of crime in the crypto world is needed more specific databases.
This can make it easier for the police to track down fraud in the crypto world. And I am optimistic that the construction of a crypto criminal
database can reduce the number of crimes in the crypto world.

It is much easier to launder money through fiat. Crypto just leaves a trace. I don't think people understand what money laundering is. You can't just exchange between a few currencies and call it a day. You need to actually funnel the money through fake companies or legit ones fronting something other than they are. Investing or buying property. You need to redistribute it so it isn't connected to you in any way at all.

Criminals use fiat, not crypto.  They only accept it on the dark web because it is easier to use and most people wouldn't want their banking details attached to their orders. It's actually pretty obvious why they don't use fiat.
Everything on the darkweb has been available on the clear net years and years before bitcoin. Do you think the darknet is the only place black markets have ever been. You don't seem like you understand what the darknet is. They only call it that to make it seem mysterious and "dark" All it is is a bunch of unindexed files and basically junk. It's not a glad full of shady criminals doing shady things. That is hollywood. It's actually the most coring place in the world and takes you back to the days of 56k modems. There are sites there that are shady but there way more shady sites on the clear web.

I think a better idea than converting currencies would be to buy things and resell them. That way every exchange of currency is  not linked.

Whenever there's databases like this they need to be transparent, and honestly there's no real easy way of going about it. Which means that bias, and other factors can very well be a motive for adding someone to the database, and without any sort of transparency way of verifying the information is true, there would be no way to have a legitimate database. Plus, there needs to be a transparent investigation for it to be worthwhile.

The intention might well be good, but without any way of verifying that information, and a way of knowing that a proper investigation has been undertaken with undeniable proof that someone is in fact guilty then unfortunately its just another collection of accusations, which may or may not be accurate.

There''s also a lot of data to collect, and what constitutes listing someone on a website as a "cyber criminal"? There's many different types of scams out there, and investigating them all would take hundreds of people dedicating the equivalent of a full time job. Just take a look at any policing system out there, and you'll soon find that there's hidden motives, bias, and outright injustice being done. Although, people like to quote the innocent before guilty saying, there's multiple instances where evidence has been ignored, and innocent people have been put behind bars, and there's a whole lot of reasons for this. We've had previous constables come out, and declare that they planted evidence, or just put someone away because the public was demanding it, and any project undertaking this behemoth task needs to try, and avoid these issues which every country has. 

Its all well, and good compiling a list, but compiling a accurate list which can be verified, and most of all trusted is going to be a very large undertaking. However, taken the above into consideration if anyone did actually pull off this it would be an incredible feat that a lot of areas in the world today could benefit from. Personally, I don't see any sort of easy route in doing so.

Coinjoin is not a panacea... At a minimum, your funds may be "marked" as "suspicious" in some database...
Or why Binance blocks transactions from Wasabi Wallet? Or how does Localbitcoins block transactions to some Darkmarkets?
It is believed that by using mixers or Coinjoins an average user can only attract the attention of regulatory organizations... And I'm sure there are a lot of such companies...

That's kind of my point. After a coinjoin, they either give up tracking the coins, or they mark every output from that coinjoin as "suspicious". If they are following some coins which enter a coinjoin, and 50 different outputs exit that coinjoin, then what do they do? Either they give up and the coins are now "clean", or they mark every one of those 50 outputs as "suspicious", meaning they now have a 2% accuracy. Either way, they ratings are meaningless, although that doesn't stop centralized exchanges for penalizing users for no reason.

The development of a crypto criminal database will have a negative impact on reducing the number of crimes in the crypto world, but this is still against some government regulations and still cannot be applied to some countries that do not provide regulation on crypto. Because several countries have warned that getting into the crypto world is a high risk. Losing money and fraud is one of the risks. the criminals who did it went unnoticed due to anonymous transactions.

But we'll see what changes will be made in the future.