Bitcoin Forum

https://i.imgur.com/I6T6bYG.jpg

Sen. Sanders proposes one-time tax that would cost Bezos $42.8 billion, Musk $27.5 billion

Source:  https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/06/sanders-billionaire-tax-bill-would-cost-bezos-musk-zuckerberg.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/06/sanders-billionaire-tax-bill-would-cost-bezos-musk-zuckerberg.html)


....


Isn't it strange how chinese billionaires, EU billionaires and asian billionaires are not attacked this way.

Only billionaires responsible for creating jobs and innovation in the american economy are attacked.

The same precedent applies to anti trust laws and monopolies. American corporations are exclusively targeted by them. Unionization and tax hikes on the private sector likewise reserved for american business only. Journalists and media publish a highly disproportionate amount of hate pieces intended to influence the public into hating Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. Why.

The question is why. Does anyone have an explanation for american business being treated unfairly in global markets. What does everyone think.

You should note that the tax proposals were made by American politicians, so this isn't a unfair treatment by the global market, but the effect of the Robin hood style act proposed by the senators involved; Bernie Sanders, Ed Markey, and Kirsten Gillibrand and could likely be a public front to support their political agendas.
This is not indicative of any prejudice towards American billionaires (which is ranked no.1 on the list (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_billionaires)) or a more receptive economic environment for the rich in other countries, we actually have a high number on the rich list leaving China and other areas with high political manipulation of the nation's market.

Tax hikes also affects a bulk of the population and unionization helps protects the workers in cooperations, reason why some work houses are set up in areas where labour is cheap. Rather than seeing this as an attack, I think it should be established in many more countries

The problem with those one-time taxes is that no one guarantees that there won't be another "one-time tax" in the future, the same way as some "temporary" tax increases became permanent tax increases.

On the other hand, I think that perspective applies not only to American millionaires, but generally throughout the world. Hollywood has a lot to do with painting that view.

This bill will never pass. It's a gimmick. Sanders is just trying to score political points.


I don't know much about Tesla, but Amazon is a very brutal employer. They also regularly employ union-busting tactics, and as one of the country's biggest employers, their IC model is quietly making American workers poorer in general. Not a fan of this method of job creation!

It was easier to turn a blind eye to this when Amazon was great for consumers. Now they've jacked up membership prices, started price gouging, and never meet delivery timelines anymore. Garbage company that treats everyone like shit if you ask me. They consolidated the market and now they're making us all pay the price.

Tax the shit out of Bezos; I don't care. I'm sure I pay a much, much higher tax rate than people like him. I'm supposed to feel bad for him now? LOL. Why do you care so much about billionaires?

Absolutely rubbish law Sanders has proposed. It will be easier for billionaires to buy a "Golden Visa" in countries like New Guinea, or UK or any other Caribbean countries and throw out American citizenship. Self made billionaires like Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg have earned such amount through their vision and hard work. US is just trying to get hold of some easy money from the sweat equity of others. Non sense in all true sense!

I honestly consider this way of taxation stupid and irrational, just a cheap attempt to take as much money as possible from the rich in one go and to redirect that money somewhere else. If we want the system to be fairer, then those who have more logically should spend more on taxes, because the rich have far more money than they need, while on the other hand millions die of hunger or live in severe poverty.

A lot of things are weird in the USA, and this may just be another in a series that shouldn't surprise anyone too much. Regarding Jeff Bezos, he is perceived in the world like many other entrepreneurs as a modern slave owner, because everything that comes out about the conditions in which his workers work is actually slavery of the new age.


Bezos did not create anything with his hard work, little ordinary people did it for him. I share the same opinion as exstasie on billionaires problems, especially these exploiters like Bezos, or these like Mark Zuckerberg who, as one member of the American security agency said, created the largest spy network in the world that people use voluntarily.

From the look of it, I think the taxes are targeted at individuals rather than their businesses but that does not justify the reason why they should then be stifle out of existence just because they were able to take risks others wouldn't take or they are more strategic in their decision making than other people.

The rich people should actually be given some allowances because their wealth is not just one sitting in bank accounts nationwide rather its tied in businesses and companies that continues to pay taxes and even provides employment to thousands of direct employees and more thousands of indirect employees.
 

This proposal is stupid, targeting these crypto billionaires are also targeting us crypto investors. These people are among the riches in the space, and speaking of billionaires, we have a lot of billionaires in the US, why make a separate proposal intended for crypto billionaires only.

And one time tax payment,  :( :(.. never heard of that before, pretty similar to the line of scammers in crypto, "one time payment".

The proposal will be good if applicable to all billionaires and must have a very conservative provisions and terms. One time is easy to say, how about if they already paid their dues then suddenly this is changed agaim in the future? What would it be?

Im not saying its totally useless but Im wanted to ask what is the purpose od this one time tax proposal, I think there is no problem with the regular payment of tax of these billionaires cause we never know what the future upholds.

Yeah one time tax is an absurd way to ask for money. They should have rather gone with forced donation.
US billionaires do enjoy cheaper taxes than many place in Asia and Europe as well the expenditure for bribing and red tape acceleration is cheaper in US.
If the state wants more money, they should rather implement more progressive taxes.

Looks like it's only three senators who are proposing this bill, so it's far from a done deal.

I've been seriously wondering how the US government is going to pay for all of this stimulus money they're giving to the plebians, and it looks like some of the lawmakers are starting to work out who's going to.  I don't think targeting billionaires is necessarily fair, though you won't catch me shedding a tear if they have to pay higher taxes.  The rich have been kicking the poor's asses since time immemorial.

This seems to be related to profits made during the COVID-19 pandemic, though I'm not sure about the logic being used by these senators who are proposing the bill.  Eh.  It'll probably never become a reality, which is the case of most of these stories about lawmakers who come up with wacky bills.  They make for a good story and that's about it.

Can you explain more what you meant by this? They are attacked by who?   USA?  When I read what you said I understand that you imagine Chinese, Canadian, Guatemalan people will pay taxes in USA and not in country they live.

LoL after I read this now I imagine these billionaire people living in a third, continue their business and make that country brand new business center. I know they have already thought of migrating of these businessman, they are not so idiot not to think that they could just fly on the other side just to evade the one time tax.

I don't know much of laws in the America, but what if these people apply for dual citizenship? are the tax will be cut in half? this will be easier for them than throwing their American-ness haha

They are like milking the cows that they did not raised, this is just very unfair and disrespectful at the same time. And I bet that the calculations made was just based on the yearly tax they have paid for the last years, what's worst is that the revenue of these companies are increasing each year, that's a huge amount of money when taken one time. Imagine you've paid the taxes even if you haven't done any business yet.

This is absurd.

Don't know about China but maybe there's less communists in the EU and Asia.

I recall France did something similar and that decision made many rich people leave the country.

Attacking the rich doesn't work. You either want them on your side so that they pay taxes in your country or you make them move and pay taxes somewhere else. Sanders is an idiot.

Initially, taxation system was created for the rich people so the government has enough funds to serve all the people in the country but later it evolved and everyone is obliged to pay the taxes based on their income. So that kind of rich policy is again going to be implemented?

But in reality, this kind of laws will never become possible so its just the political game begins.

I don't believe we should be targeting the billionaires, unless we can prove that they have made their wealth through dubious or frowned upon methods.

We need to weigh up the total effect of their existence in terms of tax revenue, benefit to the economy, benefit to society and mankind as a whole etc.

If the world is net positive, despite their wealth, then they should be spared. If they're basically a vampire sucking the life out of everything they touch, then we should enact policies to prevent this behavior.

A classic case of selective justice and absurdity as proposed by Sen. Sanders, et. al. I assume his political benefactors are only millionaires hence they will be safe from that proposed bill if ever it will be enacted.

But what about his other colleagues? I bet they wouldn't agree to such action because it may mean political suicide since most of these high ranking politicians are in one way or another have a multimillionaire benefactors!

I guess Sen. Sanders and other proponents of this bill should have included also those multimillionaires to make it look a little bit fair but I think this will not go through smoothly without any unwanted side effects. Imho.

Bernie is at it again with his populism I wonder what's his goal here, the primaries are long gone, is he trying to appeal to his hardcore far-left base who might start viewing him as too moderate, considering his support of Biden?

The bill is insane, if it would pass, Bezos and Musk would be forced to sell an unprecedent amount of their stock, crashing the price to the ground. Such event might easily trigger the biggest economic disaster in history.

Or maybe he just want to shake his party with a sense of bitterness by not getting the nomination. But I think Bernie won't get the support of the majority even from his own party. :)




Certainly, if that proposed bill passes through, we could see a mass exodus of billionaires who will go to greener pastures and avoid such form of political persecution in which case could trigger an unprecedented economic and political crises.

Rather than this, they might as well just improve the tax system overall to make it possibly fair for everyone. If the difference between the rich and the poor wasn't huge, there wouldn't be a need to do so but nope. The gulf between the two is way too big, and a lot of people are being heavily affected by it.

Also, Sanders just scoring some brownie points right there. Though I'd much agree with Taxing Bezos, heck don't just do it once, do it a few more times. His ways of managing his employees has always been bad and I've always seen it being talked about here and there in different forums whenever Amazon topic comes up.

The American business treated unfairly by the global markets?Are you kidding me? ???
In what world are you living in?The American corporations were,are and will most likely always dominate the global markets.The global economy is more or less centered around the US.The fact that some countries and the EU want to limit the monopoly of the US high tech corporations can't be called "unfair treatment". 
Bernie Sanders is a communist.What else are you expecting from him?

I think it will not work, there are now a lot of senators all over the world that want to the tax the rich more but the rich people are always getting away with it because there are a lot of ways to reduce taxes legally. Look at the laws about taxes that been passed in the congress, many people think that the rich will be taxed more but in the reality the middle class persons are the one who shoulder the taxes that been implemented. There are a lot of tax avoidance that is legal and for sure that the rich will continue to use it.

What Sanders did to seek public support, by attacking US billionaires like Bezos and Musk. This way of politics is very unhealthy,
because it is detrimental to several parties. I doubt the one-time tax will work out well and fairly. Because this could be an abuse of
power, if I as the people of America would not vote against politicians Sen. Sanders.

The proposal was not an attack or mistreat for American billionaires and no wonder this have come into a proposal for the Americans because right now they are facing a real serious crisis and the way to do crowd funding to support the needy is to raise up the tax. But if that proposal would be approved, there might come a time that the power would be abused whenever a crisis like this would arise pushing the billionaires into force to pay a high rate tax that although for a good purpose but still it is undeniable to be a big amount.

I think that one-time tax won't work out that easily for at first glance it is duly unfavorable for the American billionaires paying out a high amount of tax in the middle of this pandemic and take note it on a one time blow. Maybe the taxation for billionaires would take place more properly if the proposal would undergo certain provisions that would be fair and agreeable at the same time for the billionaires since it is clearly stated that it would be used for health support amid with the existence of the pandemic. The taxation rate must be reasonable and be fair for everyone no matter what social class they do belong. This must not just serve for the billionaires but also for the high rate income earners to prove the fairness of putting up a taxation for the benefit of the goods.

Socialism is a failed ideology. If you have any doubt, you can ask the residents of Venezuela, Cuba or the former USSR. In the United States there are people who support Sanders because they don't have any first-hand experience of Socialism. You can't tax the rich people beyond a certain threshold. If you do that, then there will be no more rich people after certain time. They will either become poor, or they will migrate to some other country. France learnt this the hard way, after François Hollande came up with his crazy 75% tax on the HNW individuals.

Good for the people as they will benefit on the tax, but why only tax billionaires in crypto?
I don't know how he come up with the idea knowing crypto is volatile in nature, and therefore the value of your ownership may change from time to time, so if one will pay taxes, probably coming from an asset he is holding, he might still end up holding lower than what he paid when the price move not on his favor. This is legal matter but I disagree with this tax proposal. 


This isn't fair IMO, most taxes are based on income, and these people could potentially make more in the future or lose, so maybe they just treat these people covered under the current crypto laws if there's one.

If that is the only way or (there is no alternative - TINA) then this is very possible to do, especially if it is related to national threats. One economic observer in the country once suggested two things so that economic growth in my country would progress rapidly, namely:

1. The President issues a decision or regulation on "capital flight with the threat of imprisonment. That is, anyone who sends money abroad without an underlying import document will be subject to the capital flight article, for example being saved or deposited abroad or buying assets abroad. those who do not have productive businesses abroad, assets must be withdrawn back into the country. If they are not subject to the capital flight clause, it is sufficient to report productive businesses because they are the country's GNP.

2. Simultaneously with the decision above, the bank interest rate is signed to zero.

It is hoped that the effect of this policy is that capital flights can be stopped and the local economy will be flooded with capital and avoid the habit of depending on foreign debt. Business people and investors who usually earn 5% interest per year suddenly get nothing on their deposits. So sooner or later they will try to invest in the real national sector which will eventually turn the wheels of the economy and bring in foreign exchange.

Similar measures were tried in the past by various Communist/Socialist regimes such as Argentina, Venezuela and Cuba. In none of the instances, they were successful. People are ready to go to jail in order to save their wealth and they can go to any extent in doing that. In these countries, these measures resulted in more harm than good (in every single case).

It is always interesting to see people who are not billionaires and people who will not pay a single cent would go out and support these billionaires on their behalf. You do know that if everyone who will not be affected by this supported the idea, we would have a lot less billionaires in the world which makes sense because while someone makes 80+ billion dollar profit we are talking about people who are unemployed and waiting for government hand out which should not exist at the same time.

"Creating jobs" is also a big lie, they are paying people under starvation level of income and they are doing everything in their power to keep the company profiting as much as possible that people who work on amazing literally DIED from overexhaustion and never made it to news.

So, all in all I would say that one time big tax would help out a lot to American economy if that money went to people. Plus all the billionaires in other nations are paying a hefty share of their taxes, it is only the Americans that get away with it, otherwise they are not "attacked" they are just asked to pay their taxes like any other person.

Yeah, the same regurgitated material, I'll fight for you, I'll tax the rich, I'll give you money!
I'm just wondering why is he still trying, he's  78, by the next elections he will be 82, he will have no chance of getting nominated, especially after the got pushed aside so easily now, and y who...

Is he that desperate for attention?
Or are others just pushing him to come in public with those ideas and to reap a few votes here and there?


The capital control he envisions will simply destroy the economy, people will be afraid to transfer money, international commerce will decline, people will try to avoid the rules by switching to other currencies and in the end, it will all backfire as it has always happened. But the funny part is that we're here on bitcoin talk discussion this, the same place where BTC is praised to be a tool of avoiding the same capital control. Ironic, isn't it?


Nobody said anything about taxing cryptos, nor are any cryptos ever mention in the bill or in the articles, this has nothing to do with them!

Big possibilities that if only if this will passed migrations will be expected, no rich people in their right mind will continue to live inside the state knowingly that by any chance the wealth that they possessed will be subject for this huge taxes.

This kind of mentalities is not appropriate those people who created jobs and help the economy doesn't have extra liabilities.

As long as they paying their taxes there's should be no extend things like this, it shouldn't be obliged since they are super billionaires they need to
pay extra for that.

There is a widespread belief that rich people pay a lower amount of tax compared to the middle-class. The media as well as the populist politicians have tried their best to spread this lie. The truth is that the rich pay a higher tax when compared to the others. They are not just subjected to the income tax. They also need to deal with inheritance tax, estate tax, capital gains tax and dozens of other shitty tax regimen. All I am saying is that the taxation on the rich is close to the saturation point. If you tax them further, then there will be negative repercussions.

This illustrates where the concept of the rich not being taxed enough came from originally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVOwaMWewGY


This was before Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and many others shifted their stance on this topic 180° degrees.

Many large corporations like google started out with mottos like "don't be evil" which they later put aside and did the opposite of.

Warren Buffett admitted he was taxed at 17% of income years ago. That was without exploiting tax loopholes or resorting to any of the commonly utilized methods of tax avoidance utilized by the rich. Many americans pay 30% to 50% or higher of taxes on income.

That's the origins story behind where the idea of the rich not being taxed enough* comes from.

This is very bad for me. Any point increase in the tax burden (everyone's favorite progressive tax) is the worst thing the economy can face. What do the authorities want? What would the largest companies and successful enterprises take their business out of the country to a place where they will be treated humanely? Or that all of them will just raise prices which will hit ordinary people? Very strange behavior that has no explanation-precisely because the rules apply only to the US-companies and not all who conduct their business in the country.

That tax proposal was really intended to American billionaires and the author was also an American senator so no wonder why the exclusiveness is for American billionaires only. But if that would be the case, it would sound insane most specially for the billionaires part for they are already paying the right amount of tax stated by the law and all of a sudden raising up a proposal which is unfavorable for their part since even them are affected by the effect of the pandemic. There should be still fairness on the taxation without exception because such proposal might lead those billionaires to be migrating into another nation where they would be treated fairly. If that would happen, another economic declination will happen to US.

Millionaires and billionaires are also paying the designated amount of tax based on the income they have from their businesses so it is very insane if they would be added taxation rate just to support the financial crisis faced by the country. If they would let it happen, surely this would happen again in the future when the economic state is at the edge of declining and in need to have source of financial assistance coming from taxes. That would be unfair for those billionaires because supposedly the taxation must be fair to all nothing more and nothing less. Just the right rate for designated classes.

The election is nearing, and I don't think this will pass into various readings considering that everyone's attention and efforts are not really directed into making billionaires pay hefty taxes. Everyone running for a position in the government are trying their hardest to appeal the masses and get their votes. Anyway, there would be some opposition for this, surely. Then again, we are in the age wherein most people feel like the billionaires aren't already paying enough taxes (which is true, partly) that they have to increase their contribution to the public coffers for the welfare of all. The intention is good, though the timing isn't, and can be purely for show and appeal.

Billionaires are hated everywhere not only in America, the governments and the population see that one person has so much money and they cannot fathom that somehow this person got this rich by his ingenuity, intelligence and great money management skills, what they see is that if this person has so much money then that means that another person does not have access to that money and they want to become like the legendary Robin Hood and steal from the rich to help the poor.

But in my opinion as long as that person got all of that money following the law then no one has the right to take their private property away and if they decide to do so anyway that is the first sign that the economy of that country is over.

OK. Let me translate this in to simple English.

In short, the lazy welfare rats want free money by taxing the hard working rich people. They want to tax capital gains and dividends, at a rate which is equal to the tax on regular income. But if the tax level is increased to such an amount, then why the rich should make investments? They can simply hold their wealth in the form of bullion or treasury bonds and avoid paying any tax. But then, there will be widespread unemployment and the economy will be ruined (I am sure that the welfare rats won't mind that, since they are not impacted).

Very precise and your point is valid. Why rich people will help the economy if they will see that this taxes will haunt them up, they will keep their assets in other forms or fly away from the country and start a fresh life in another place where rules like this is not implemented.
It's not really good if this senator are looking for additional sources of funds for the country, longer effects like you mentioned, if those rich people will stop providing job, the lower sect of people will feel the impacts, those who are in power will not going to be affected as they already have comfortable life.

Its not their fault that they can rack up the money faster than other people because of their ideas and inventions. What they did is truly beneficial to all the people that is using it and implementing tax laws just for them can somehow be helpful to other people but that law must be fair to all people. We cannot just ask them for money because on some occasions, they are also helpful in their own ways.

^ If that happens there would be a possibility, a price hike of the products and shares of stock in the market of the mentioned billionaires, and it is like winning a lottery. One day the Government will earn billions of Money in a One time Tax. There is literally a Political Agenda. Even Though I can say that the mentioned billionaires can earn that money again, but for sure there are plans and  investments that could help individual for employment that could possibly be postpone or delay.

Why do you assume rich people are hard working? :o

The hardest working people I've ever known are poor as hell and work multiple jobs to take care of their families. The richest people I know have never worked a single day in their life. Trust fund babies, people who took their parent's real estate and money and invested without ever working for anything. Every cent they have was built on other people's backs. What do they know about work?

For some reason people imagine struggling small business owners who actually work, then they project that image onto monopolizing billionaire scum like Jeff Bezos, who spend extraordinary amounts of money crushing labor unionization and doing corporate lobbying to protect their poor workplace practices and anti-consumer practices.

Their "hard work" is pouring barely taxed profits into maintaining monopolies so they can legally mistreat workers and suck us all dry as consumers. Has anyone else noticed how popular items sold on Prime have quietly increased in price 20-100% over the past 2 years? That's not inflation. It's Amazon price gouging after putting most of their competitors out of business.

This is not a free market. This is not capitalism. This is not "hard work." People get so mad at the idea of poor people getting free money, but they have no problem with governments handing giant corporations so much more. Why?


They can always renounce their citizenship and move to some tax haven if it's such a burden.


If they want to liquidate that bullion or treasury bonds, then taxes will come due.

This is why taxing the rich despite being so popular is never going to work, the rich can buy the government if they want and avoid that outcome and even if they cannot do that they can always move their money to another location and avoid the taxes that way and if things get too extreme they could always renounce their citizenship and move completely to another country with more lenient tax laws as such it is impossible to tax the rich like that and not destroy the economy in the process.