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USA will survive the economic crisis if it becomes a socialist country

Hundreds of years of capitalism proved that capitalism is not good... some get rich and 90% stay poor .

It's time for cooperatives to shine ...It's time for a Socialist America .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGqMMpMkKXs

It already is a socialist country - for rich people and corporations. The savage capitalism is reserved for the little people.

They're not going to spread that socialism further down the food chain but let's see what happens in the aftermath of the virus. I can believe a lot of things that were previously unimaginable may become imaginable and it'll be done to preserve the hegemony of the rich.

Only 70 years of communism in Russia to prove that socialism is not good ... some get rich and 90% stay poor, and millions starve to death

That's communism not socialism ...

There's plenty of socialism in America, though it seems to do the opposite of what you say. Just look at the housing crisis of 08', where regulators tried and failed to make housing more affordable, or the student loan bubble, where the government incentivized universities to increase their administration and enrolment fees anywhere from 100 to 1000 percent. The only thing the socialist agenda has managed to do is put young Americans into debt so deep that they can't even begin to imagine what building wealth is like.

QE bailouts for large corps (travel/defence) can only last so long, going into more debt isn't a viable option anymore.

Besides, weren't you just complaining about not being able to make any money in socialist Europe the other day?

https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/sowell-housing-crisis/2009/05/17/id/330167/
https://usdebtclock.org

“The goal of socialism is communism.” - Vladimir Lenin

https://i.imgur.com/R9IUvDU.jpg


Thoughts on the above?

You must be kidding, aren't you?


Do you know what the main problem with socialism is in this context?

That everyone will end up poor under this type of economy. And the mother of all truths is that there's no real-life socialism. Whatever regime may call itself socialistic, it is either dictatorship (North Korea) or an extreme form of state capitalism, only disguised as socialism (China)

Sad truth is : US will recover this economic crisis soon enough , even if they don't change their methods to treat people with respect and dignity , the Government is supported by major banks and rich companies , which inturns asks them for lineancy in issues that might create a problem for their reputation.

It's been like that since years , in terms of developing and underdeveloped countries it's too much predominant .

Now let's go over the details regarding socialism which was explained very nicely by the Google dictionary.

It looks good in the theory but then it comes to implementing it , it really fails , this is not me saying it without any reason , it's what's been tried by 3 countries , and it failed , good thing they came out of it.

There will always be a disparity unfortunately, we need a new form of Government I think but more than that , we need a good Government.

USA has survived many economic crisis without becoming socialist.

Hundreds of years of capitalism proved that it is less bad than socialism.

In socialism there is a wider gap between rich and poor, the politicians are very rich and 99% stay poor, to the point of starving to death in many cases.

See for example how in Venezuela The rich kids of the elite are showing off their opulent lifestyles while the rest of the nation starves, and many are turning to prostitution.  (https://www.news.com.au/world/south-america/children-of-venezuelas-elite-including-exleader-hugo-chavezs-daughter-flaunt-wealth/news-story/22af92afbb1a12ec841fa36348748a1f)

Socialism failed everywhere around the word-Eastern Europe,Africa,Latin America,Asia.
The successful Scandinavian countries aren't socialist-they are capitalist,but with a welfare state.
What do you mean by socialism?
1.Capitalism with a welfare state(Scandinavian countries)?That's social democracy,not socialism.
2.Government ruled centralized economy and dictatorship(North Korea,Venezuela,USSR,Maoist China,Cuba)?
The first option isn't "true socialism".
The second option is a f**king disaster.

The biggest irony Russia becomes democratic and the USA becomes a socialist but it's not going to happen, because Americans are the most stubborn people and they rather succeed and failed as a democratic, and besides the world love to see a lot of dramas in a democratic USA it will stopped when they become a socialist.

USA is the land of the free for all those who can afford it. It´s somehow funny that humans haven´t found a better solution than democracy, which at this point of our evolution dooesn´t seem to work. A good social system that backs up its people by supporting them in case of unemployment or health issues is great but it also gets abused. Just as with pretty much everything else, keeping balance is the key.

Right! The USA needs to restore the essence of which it was founded and solve the social problems that have been plaguing it. The population is very willing to collaborate to enjoy the full right to life.

It is enough to see that a great majority of Organizations have come together to achieve it.

Even the country that term them as democratic is following the socialist policies. USA too isn't an exemption, it is socialistic in its policies, because it hides the poverty and sufferings of people within the country and points out the next country. This itself a way of rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. So, no need to become a socialist country to survive economic crisis. With time there'll be recovery.

If the United States becomes a socialist country it will survive the economic crisis because China thinks that socialism provides benefits for the development of their economy. But because of the inequality in America and a half americans are now facing so much discrimination in their society that they are forced to lean towards socialism. And this inequality is being created by the capitalist free market economy. Socialism is slowly beginning to take its place on the political stage of the entire Western world.

The Chinese government uses a very complex formula from capitalist socialism, which is ruled by the Communist Party. In any case, in the whole world there is no state system in the pure form of socialism or capitalism. But nevertheless in the USA it is very difficult to turn to the path of socialism, when the state is completely ruled by capitalism in the truest sense of the word.

You haven't actually said anything here. Are you trying to say that China will save the US if it becomes socialist, or are you saying that because China says socialism is good, it's guaranteed to succeed in America? Spoiler alert, China is not socialist, the CCP couldn't care less about the average Chinese person. They solely care about global domination (typical control freaks) and how China stacks up against the US. Also, anyone who makes a lot of money in China does their best to move their money the hell out of China as fast as possible.


This is completely wrong in every conceivable way. Maybe if you said they're forced to turn to welfare (though it certainly isn't anywhere close to half of all Americans). Inequality exists no matter what system you run, there's no such thing as complete equality of outcome (and that's not something you should ever strive for because it means you're rewarding people for bad behaviour). In a capitalist system, those who make good decisions repeatedly are rewarded, and those who make poor decision repeatedly are punished, this incentivizes you to get your act together.

So you mean they become socialists only to their own ranks?
I don't know life there but it seems like racist problems occur everywhere not only because of differences in skin color or other bodies, but from social status as well, rich people only make friends with rich people? :'(

Just wow, how do you come up with stuff like that. The examples for a working socialist country is not there. Russia didn't make it and China is just exploiting cheap labor and selling products to capitalist economies. Without country buying all their cheap products, China wouldn't be succesful at all. And in Europe Socialism doesn't seem to be working fully, with UK leaving the EU it's just the first step of the EU break up. Socialism in the EU won't work forever. Transfering wealth between a lot of people in a massive scale will make people lazy in the long end. It doesn't work.

I still find the lives of people in America very good and their surroundings are good. Capitalism is still exerting its effect on American life. Social Security is awesome, I've heard of YouTube reviewers about that.
If I switch to Socialist, I fear that it will be difficult for people to get used to it. there will even be riots. What do you think?

The USA became the no.1 economy in the world, just because it followed the capitalist system. If they had followed socialism, then they would have ended up like the USSR or Cuba. Socialism is a failed ideology and by now most of the people have realized it. And this is the reason why countries which followed the socialist system earlier shifted to the capitalist system (examples are China, Vietnam.etc).

In my opinion, the entire civilized world has long been convinced that socialism and communism are utopian ideas that are not a natural development of human civilization, but only a dead end in such development. This was even said in his predictions by Nostradamus. Therefore, we do not need such political superstructures. Humanity should simply develop and become more humane and civilized. It is time for humanity to unite and solve global problems, as Elon Musk does.

China is not a socialist country

It runs a highly disguised and deeply entrenched form of state capitalism (since Deng Xiaoping's times) where the top political bosses of CPC are just like regular Western elites, although with a bit of a national tint. As I'm inclined to think, any country that declares socialism eventually ends up with the worst form of capitalism in pretty much the same way we end up with extreme nepotism when trying to implement genuine meritocracy. This is the key to understanding "Chinese socialism" (by removing the veil of words that lost their meaning)

One of the last songs known I'd expect to hear on the bitocintalk forum was the internationale. A great example of how BTC doesn't discriminate against who uses it or for what. Users might, though. :D

To add to the topic's discussion, I think that more social programs are a one way road for America.
The government is already creating inflation to support its citizens from dying during the pandemic. And paying very expensive sums too, because for profit hospitals are, of course, looking to maximize profits instead of save as many lives as possible.

It makes the most sense to have a centrally governed system for health and medicine. You have huge bargaining power and you leverage that to everyone's advantage. A socialized healthcare program (not mixed, fully government-controlled) would give everyone the most for the least amount of money. It's an economy of scale after all.

This is proven by countless studies. Even the least economically advantaged countries in EU for example, have the same level of service for health as in the US. Same queue times, same survival rates, same quality... But pay maybe 1/10th of the government+private cost for health. And in many cases maybe far less than 1/10th for things like medicine or operations.

Removing profit out of the equation for basic things like health, medicine and water is important for America to move forward. It'll be done, but probably not after the following election. As presidential candidates from the big parties are either establishment politicians that don't want to disrupt the system, or against the very essence of the idea of social programs.

The best comparison in this regard has to be between the USA and China. USA is capitalist country with a significant welfare state. Yet, the kind of push to innovation that the US has provided over the last century couldn't have been possible anywhere else. USSR and Nazi Germany gained significant technological progress in the name of chauvinism but look at where they ended up. There is only so much that you can push citizens to in the name of false nationalism.

USA, on the other hand, has been a country of well paid patriots. Just read about the aersopace race and the kind of people who worked at places like Lockheed Martin under lengends like Kelly Johnson and Ben Rich. Those people were well-paid and utterly patriotic while they worked on some of the most secret technology during the cold war.

An economic structure like Socialism where the spark of individual brilliance and innovation is supposed to be controlled by the state in some sort of common ownership can never lead to the progress that US has achieved. China has been stealing for innovation for quite sometime. They have cleverly built a class of wealthy elites calling it the CCP politburo rather than Capitalism. US could of course do better in terms of social cohesion, yet a lot of it is the result of clever external machinations and lack of leadership rather than the people or the system itself.

Think for a moment. That's what a communist would say when trying to convert people from socialism to communism. To some people on the right, everything in left seems communism while social demoracy is very far from communism. So far that Finland fought USSR for it.

The world in general today rests on two major ideologies, the ideology of Capitalism-Liberalism and the ideology of Socialism-Communism. Capitalism-Liberalism was born from the principle of secularism, namely the separation of religion from life. In the view of capitalism, humans have the right to determine the rules of their life. As in Communism, social change must start from the takeover of the means of production through the role of the Communist Party.

Capitalism's political system refers to democracy. In a democracy, sovereignty (the right to make laws) is in the hands of the people. The basic principle is absolute and unlimited freedom in thought, conscience, belief, speech, and politics. As for Communism, in political life, it only recognizes the single party system. The ruling party will reflect on the material as a measure of all its attitudes. Communism does not recognize private property. All ownership spaces, the law of origin, belong to the state. In that case, the people are forced to follow the whole wishes of the "Ruler" without any room for opinion for them.

It will drag us into a long debate to distinct socialism and communism. The only difference that a layman knows is that socialism is a lenient form of communism. The basics are kinda same. By the way the world is once again going to a bipolar power system and now the competition is among USA(Capitalism) and China(Socialism).

Socialism is a very flawed ideology, if USA ever goes to that point, I do not think that it will solved the problem, this was the reason that Venezuela's economy collapsed, they favored this kind of ideology. In reality, this will not happen in America, the RedScare is too ingrained in their country and they will try to prevent it from ever flourishing, that is like giving up to the everlong stand-off of USA between Russia. And if it ever comes to that, more corrupt people will replace the previous powers, remember that after Lenin's death, Stalin's reign of terror began and I think that is proof enough of what can happen when Socialist ideology is ever entertained.

There is no need for a long debate as long as you can learn that China does not stand for "Socialism". It is "Communism". Socialism can exist in even a democratic country. For example, India, the largest democracy in the world declares itself as a socialist republic. The defining difference between socialism and communism is that under the latter, you DO NOT have an elected government. Chinese CCP has no system by which citizens can vote for a party with a different ideology.

So, yeah, the fight is between China (Communism and Deception) vs Rest of the World (Naivete)

With each of your new posts, I don't understand more - is this trolling or are you really so strange person?
You write about "it's time for socialist America" and throw the anthem of the international. If you had any idea what you were writing about, you would have realized that such a proposal is tantamount to a call to restore such a "beautiful" USSR, introduce international communism, and so on from the list.
Do you know what happened with one attempt to build socialism, or will you find it yourself? If you still decide to Google two words yourself then at the same time look at the results and successes of the socialist regimes in the 20th century. I am sure that you will be happy with the result!

The Soviet Union was a bad totalitarian experiment, and the US actually proved that capitalism treats people better than such regimes. However, it's not like there are no successful socialist countries. Take Sweden, for example. High taxes, but high level of well-being, happiness, infrastructure, gender equality among other things. However, I don't think the US can become socialist because profit-oriented thinking became a part of the nation's mindset. Some reforms are likely to be implemented, but at its core it is likely to remain capitalist. I've read an article by Tony Judt about social democracies once, and he said that the problem is that they do deliver what's promised, but that just stops being that attractive to people in many societies. I think the US is that kind of society.

Well, USA could survive anything if they become just a tiiiiny bit socialist but that is the trouble here, we call everything helping the general public a socialism thing and that should be wrong. I mean we are talking about a ton of capitalist regular European countries who have universal healthcare right now, look at Europe and how they run their country, it is purely capitalist, just have universal healthcare. I mean why do you think free libraries is not a socialist thing but medical world is? Just because of money?

Yeah, USA is spending a lot more on healthcare right now compared to what Universal healhtcare would cost, plus they could make things a lot cheaper but they don't.. why? Because they are saying that if they do it suddenly they think they would turn into Cuba.