Bitcoin Forum

So many results are obviously complete bullshit.  Has anyone found a third party site that we the players can use to verify results of blackjack and slots and whatever other questionable outcomes we encounter?

I'm assuming you're talking about a particular gambling website, what one is it? Since, to be able to verify it they should have everything that's required to verify it on their site. If they simply just state that its provably fair without....providing the means to prove it then they likely aren't being completely transparent.

Most known sites will really show you about the fairness of their games. Just like on what you can found in roobet here: https://roobet.com/fair

About third parties verifiers then they do actually exist and you can search them up yet i havent tried to use up these things because when i do gamble i do just stick out to known

ones where you do able to verify your bets or would simply show you up on fair they are.

I only gamble at casinos offering their own provably fair verification, but it is their own.   It’s not just any one casino I‘M pointing the finger at and crying because I lost.  I honestly don’t believe it is mathematically possible to lose 28 hands of blackjack in a row Once my bet amount increased to 0.001BTC per hand.  To lose 54 spins on a slot machine in a row once my bet amount was over 0.001BTC per spin seems suspect.   Casino edges and the old saying The house always wins are not lost on me.  I get it.  But if there is a verification to utilize that is not affiliated with the casino being played in I would love to know about it.

Maybe this thread can help you out: How fair is Provably Fair? Do you verify every bet as a gambler? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5227525.0). And then cross reference your result to the result of the online casinos that you are playing and see if they perfectly match.

Gambling results may appear to be bullshit but they are truly what they are most of the time. It may be almost impossible to imagine to lose 28 consecutive hands in a blackjack but it happens. In the same manner that a dice game with 50% winning chance could also give you 30 consecutive losing rolls.

Anyway, you might want to check this out: https://blog.bc.game/how-to-verify-that-my-bets-were-fair/. This is a guide or a tutorial on how to verify fairness using an independent third party. This uses SHA256 online.

Why not spit out the casino's name? The reason why I ask the name is because the provably fair system is different for different casinos, there are exceptions though. So if you could provide the name of the site, we could help you better.

My bad I didn’t even mention the casinos they were Luckyfish and BC.game.

It is the first time I hear the name of this casino but I am not judging them.Again the only way to verify completely is that this site to offer to the gambler all the need tools for verifying the hash and the seed and of course the site should provide also a link to an independent provider in which you can also verify the seed.Unfortunately very few casinos do this.

If those are the sites then follow the steps on that bc.game blog linked above by darker since both sites uses the same provably fair system (client, server and nonce).

Unfortunately they don't have a convenient third party verifier like the ones from dicesites (https://dicesites.com/provably-fair) but it still gets the job done.

I agree he should complete the information and spill the beans on the casino that is on questions probably that's a new gambling site in question because old gambling sites do not have issues about their provably fair reputation because they have not been questioned before.

Well there is a big difference between bad luck and cheating. Not every worst streak is directly the cause of a cheating casino. Just provide the best and we can check it.

using other sites besides the gambling site you are using to verify your bets may not be safe or they can provide fake proof's  .

 they can pay that site to make the results fair but the truth is they are scam  but if the site is already a scam , theres no real difference because they can still give fake proofs when you check your bets inside thier site  . we should not accuse the casino if we got bad results because you can be unlucky and if the casino is clean for accusations.

Are your test/research giving you different contradictory results or something?
 I guess I would use a betting site that has been tested by multiple reputable sites/systems for provable fairness. The average result from the multiple sites/systems will probably determine how trustworthy the claim of provable fairness is.

If you look from a statistical perspective even a result with extreme odds doesn't need it's an impossible result.
I mean despite it's appear a rare event it can happens. There is not much to say.
There are several way to check the fairness of a gaming site, or verify your games and mostly have been already posted here.
Share your website and some of your bets (if it's a site "provably fair), it would be very easy get an evaluation.

I have a good news for you.

BTCgosu.com is launching a tool this Sunday where users can verify bets for over 30 casinos at single place. With the introduction of this tool, BTCGosu is aiming to become the biggest third-party verifier in Crypto Gambling industry. I am personally managing the built of the tool. BC.Game is one of the 33 casinos which will be launched this Sunday.

I will surely include LuckyFish in next update. Keep an eye on BTCGosu thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5262141.0) or this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5227525.0) this weekend when tool will be announced.

-webtricks

Yes, this is exactly what is needed. A independent and unbiased site that are not linked to any of these casinos, that has experienced experts that can test the fairness of these systems. Most of the gamblers are not technically inclined and would not know how to do these tests or verify the data, even after they used the tools.

Thank you for this information, I will give you 2 Merit points for this contribution.  ;)

I am generally a very big fan of the idea behind efialtis' idea of BTCGosu. The crypto-gambling market is already quite big and especially for newcomers very difficult to understand (and casinos are appearing regularly whose only intention is to scam the customers). Here such review sites are a very easy way to get an overview of which casinos are available and which of them are trustworthy enough to deposit funds.

To be honest, I am also sure that a large part of the players doesn't use the possibilities offered by "provably fair". Only a few understand why you need such a thing at all and what the results mean. Even here in the forum, "provably fair" is regularly equated with "doesn't scam me", although the one has nothing to do with the other.

This was just discussed at one casino as well earlier today, I won't say names, but I think there is a misconception about what provably fair means. RNG systems that people respect and acknowledge aren't the same as PF. PF should mean you can verify on your own without relying on 3rd party sites.

That's what I am talking about. Provably Fair is very missleading, a large part of the players understands by it something, which is actually not meant and weighs itself in false security.
The problem here is that this can be exploited by casinos, which may scam their players(no payout of larger amounts, ...). It is enough to write "We are provably fair" on the website and you will get an unjustified trust advance.

Therefore I think OP has a point, do we have a 3rd party site that we can verify if the result of a certain site is really provably fair?
I'm still interested with it though I mostly focus on sports betting where it's not really necessary as games can be fix or not, I just have to be at the right side.

I readt some good thread yesterday explaining how to verify results from the outcome and its the best one i found.
You can visit vand read the topic here mate https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5227525.0

I hope you can comprehend that so you can verify yourself next time you encounter suspicious outcomes.  :)

The thread you have given here is also very helpful to all players especially to those who really on verifying every bet have made. Actually, this is very important a tool where we can verify the outcomes to see if the site is a provably fair system. Also, I’m interested in knowing this provably fair system as before I’m not checking the bet I've made when I'm playing in an online casino.

Despite the tool to verify how fair the result is, players who had set to beleive the casino isn't fair will stil think the casino is cheating them. Its not like they change their heart but its easy to look for another casino to play with.

There are casinos I think that are fair like the ones using tx as result of the game. I have seen few of these casinos so far.

Yes we have a great number of Casinos here, if you are playing in your favorite casinos and you are not getting the results that you want compared to the other casinos that you've been playing, you can make a switch and check and try the other casinos there are other reputable and old casinos that you may be overlooked.

Good idea.

I haven't seen one too.
I think I mostly test it myself with 100-1000 bets to see if the results will be the right percentage as what should be expected.

Thinking about a live video of the outcome from owners of the gambling sites.
But no, it might be edited.
So, what or who can prove this. It should be something or someone trusted.
Freebies for game testers.  ;D

   I talked with people who check random bets before they try it with more money, and these guys I talked with like to generate new
seeds after some time. They gamble with bots, and everything is automatic.
   I don't verify provably fair, I am a small gambler. And it's not a big thing if I lose some, win some, it's just entertainment for me,
and I gamble just on trusted crypto-casinos. But who bets with larger capital should do checks more often, if they have concerns
about the casino where they gamble.

Well talking about probability, yes it could be, you could lose 30 times in a row but I really really doubt that the result will stick to a single outcome like all 50 high for 30 consecutive? It may happen but it is nearly impossible. It is different with blackjack, you can control your card in blackjack wherein if you lose that's all your fault.

This is where you need to rely on the trust rating of the casino, and you should see this with trusted rating website, those who can't be paid as much as possible.

Comparing sports  to those traditional dice and slot games are different but even though fixed games do really happen but verifying it  would really be nearly impossible.
There are indeed sites that do verify out bets but most people doesnt care on checking things out as long they do deal with known or popular sites then they do
automatically consider that it is fair.This had been always a behavior on where people stick into places where majority is been playing presuming that the site
is already fair basing of on player numbers.

It is nearly impossible until it happens. So, yeah, it happens.

You cannot control your card in blackjack. Every card dealt is random whether it uses a single deck or multiple decks. Of course, you may take a hit but, again, the additional card you will get is going to be random. And in a simulated blackjack game, you should still verify its fairness from time to time to make sure you are not being cheated.

Well, I do not know what kind of gambling platform you are talking about but I am pretty sure that there are too many sites you can try and can validate the fairness of the gambling site.

There are many gambling site to start with and this is why the best thing to do is to start looking first the best gambling platform. I bet the most stable gambling platform are those platform promoted here in the forum. This is an assurance because most of the gambling sites here are been operating for some time.

I think there are still some gambling places that still can't be fair because usually the fair possibility posts are only on or in front of the gambling site's website but sometimes they insert an encryption script that makes enemies often lose.

I can understand your suspicion of fairness that exists on gambling sites, sometimes I also experience the same thing.
When playing dice has 30 lost in row with win chance 47.5%, I always question the fairness of the gambling site. There
should be third party services that help do provably fair verification, instead of using provably fair verification from gambling
sites itself.

Which site you are talking about, even i have not come across a third party site to check and verify all my rolls. The reason is you need to have your server seed, client seed and Nonce to verify your bets and enter manually all these strings of long data and if you are playing for a long time and if you want to verify everything it is going to take a very long time. I only play in a site i trust and i sometimes verify if i am on a loosing streak, if not i usually will not bother.

Yeah of course, gambling for others is business even some uses gamblingn platform to scam. If you can visit the reputation section then you can see few gambling platform with bad reputation.

There are gambling platform that welcome you with hug bonus as sign in bonus in joining their platform. Before yo can withdraw you are ask to play the game and of course win that game. However, when you will going to withdraw the bonus and the winning profits of the game the dev will going to ask a processing fee like some sort of btc to deposit before one can withdraw which shows that this activity is clearly a scam activity. Why would ask for a certain deposit before one can withdraw? why not deduct it to tye funds to be withdrawn?

when there are gambling places that do like that they usually have a minimum amount of withdrawal so that maybe this feature can impose restrictions on players to make small withdrawals and only make large withdrawals, until now there are some gambling places that apply it. one of them is Fortunejack which provides a minimum withdrawal limit but has very high confidence.

My advice is when you want to choose a gambling place, then you have to see some of the information in this forum or you can also post to the announcement thread from the gambling website that you can search at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=56.0 , after that you can read one by one the very important information you can get from there.

he already answered that, check his last reply #8 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5271599.msg55073862#msg55073862)

you don't have to check all the results, just those you think they are rigged.

@OP, most reliable casinos have a PF page where they explain in details how their provably fair system works and most of the times they provide the source code for the script with which you can verify the results, you can copy it and run it locally.

I am also curious about this one because I saw that there are many platforms that are saying that they offer a probably fair script but it will be good if a normal
gambler can verify it whether they are telling the truth or not.

So third party application will be very helpful if there is willing to create a platform that will verify their script. I will be looking forward if there will be available in the future.

There are some third parties which verify the casino's. Like cryptogambling.org for example. All the biggest dice sites have been verified by them.

I noticed on Duckdice even their Random Number Generator is certified (https://duckdice.io/storage/downloads/RNG_Certificate_UK_Sabant_BV_ITL1902910_12Nov19.pdf)

he mention the games blackjack and slots as a few example  . that games fall on a casino type gambling but he didnt mention a site name .  

we dont know if he is shy to say or he tries to protect the reputation of the site  but you said lots of sites do have this same problem  ? not aware with that  , maybe you are only playing on an unfair gambling site because fair gambling sites will not cheat on thier players  .  they just accept the result if players win they loose  .

If you mean football betting (which is actually part of sports-betting), then I don't really see the need for the typical provable fair feature used mostly for random-based bettings whose betting outcomes are determined by the system you are betting on... And you'll have to worry about the possibility of results of winners getting changed.

Normally you are issued a ticket after betting on sports/football as proof, which makes your true result getting changed by the betting sites hard...Though it's possible that betting sites would wrongly dispute the tickets of true winners  and refusing to accept that they are the true winners when they come to claim their prize. I guess this is where provable fair could be used to avoid that kind of situation, maybe by hashing the tickets before they are giving to bettors?

i was kinda curious too i've been verifying it too i read some post about when he try to verify it on the casino's built in verifier a hash come but when he tried to a third party verifier the result is different.

Your wait it over, as I promised on the first page of this thread, btcgosu has already come up with the biggest third-party provably fair verification tool. It is currently covering 25 casinos and 49 games.

Here's the link: https://www.btcgosu.com/tools/provably-fair-verifier/

Can't see the casino or game you were looking for in the tool? No problem, you can request addition of unlisted casinos/games in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5262141.0 and same will get added in the tool in near future.

Legendary :)
In the text BTCGosu should emphasize the
in my opinion even better. Don't let anybody get the idea that this would protect him/her from scams just because BTCGosus Verifier shows a positive result.

As already mentioned, "provable fair" is too often confused with "won't scam me" ...

Otherwise: Top work, I like the Verifier very much!

You are absolutely right. There is a difference between 'cheating' and 'scamming'. This tool will only verify that the casino is not cheating you by showing manipulated bet results. However, you should take due-diligence before depositing money on a casino because even though casino is provably-fair, it can scam by not paying you or come up with some shitty rule to ban your account.

But wait, btcgosu get that covered too! @efialtis has posted some top-notch reviews of the popular casinos on btcgosu and he's adding new periodically. These reviews can be taken into consideration for the process of due-diligence and picking right casino for you, more here: https://www.btcgosu.com/

I have added a box stating that not cheating by manipulating bets doesn't automatically mean a casino can't be shady and scam people.

Splendid, thank you very much efialtis!

---

Right, that's exactly what I mean. Unfortunately, you see too often postings on Bitcointalk where scams are excluded, because one page is "provably fair". This leads to a false sense of security and is even abused by casinos that have the pure intention to scam. Unfortunately, very few players actually deal with what "provably fair" means and try to verify their bets although it is VERY easy to do (and got even more easier now thanks to BTCGosu ;) )

Generally it's quite easy to verify if the provably fair game is ok. And unlike cryptos related things you can use tools(sha, hmac calculators,...) from the web for that, because the datas to be sent are not critical. So I think it's better for people to verify themselves, they can learn how the game works and what are their real chances to win, thanks to that.