Verifying Provably Fair b.s.

[Natalim]

This was just discussed at one casino as well earlier today, I won't say names, but I think there is a misconception about what provably fair means. RNG systems that people respect and acknowledge aren't the same as PF. PF should mean you can verify on your own without relying on 3rd party sites.

That's what I am talking about. Provably Fair is very missleading, a large part of the players understands by it something, which is actually not meant and weighs itself in false security.
The problem here is that this can be exploited by casinos, which may scam their players(no payout of larger amounts, ...). It is enough to write "We are provably fair" on the website and you will get an unjustified trust advance.

Therefore I think OP has a point, do we have a 3rd party site that we can verify if the result of a certain site is really provably fair?
I'm still interested with it though I mostly focus on sports betting where it's not really necessary as games can be fix or not, I just have to be at the right side.

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[In the silence]

So many results are obviously complete bullshit.  Has anyone found a third party site that we the players can use to verify results of blackjack and slots and whatever other questionable outcomes we encounter?

I readt some good thread yesterday explaining how to verify results from the outcome and its the best one i found.
You can visit vand read the topic here mate https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5227525.0

I hope you can comprehend that so you can verify yourself next time you encounter suspicious outcomes. 

[carriebee]

So many results are obviously complete bullshit.  Has anyone found a third party site that we the players can use to verify results of blackjack and slots and whatever other questionable outcomes we encounter?

I readt some good thread yesterday explaining how to verify results from the outcome and its the best one i found.
You can visit vand read the topic here mate https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5227525.0

I hope you can comprehend that so you can verify yourself next time you encounter suspicious outcomes. 

The thread you have given here is also very helpful to all players especially to those who really on verifying every bet have made. Actually, this is very important a tool where we can verify the outcomes to see if the site is a provably fair system. Also, I’m interested in knowing this provably fair system as before I’m not checking the bet I've made when I'm playing in an online casino.

[target]

So many results are obviously complete bullshit.  Has anyone found a third party site that we the players can use to verify results of blackjack and slots and whatever other questionable outcomes we encounter?

I readt some good thread yesterday explaining how to verify results from the outcome and its the best one i found.
You can visit vand read the topic here mate https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5227525.0

I hope you can comprehend that so you can verify yourself next time you encounter suspicious outcomes. 

The thread you have given here is also very helpful to all players especially to those who really on verifying every bet have made. Actually, this is very important a tool where we can verify the outcomes to see if the site is a provably fair system. Also, I’m interested in knowing this provably fair system as before I’m not checking the bet I've made when I'm playing in an online casino.

Despite the tool to verify how fair the result is, players who had set to beleive the casino isn't fair will stil think the casino is cheating them. Its not like they change their heart but its easy to look for another casino to play with.

There are casinos I think that are fair like the ones using tx as result of the game. I have seen few of these casinos so far.

[aioc]

Despite the tool to verify how fair the result is, players who had set to beleive the casino isn't fair will stil think the casino is cheating them. Its not like they change their heart but its easy to look for another casino to play with.

There are casinos I think that are fair like the ones using tx as result of the game. I have seen few of these casinos so far.

Yes we have a great number of Casinos here, if you are playing in your favorite casinos and you are not getting the results that you want compared to the other casinos that you've been playing, you can make a switch and check and try the other casinos there are other reputable and old casinos that you may be overlooked.

[Reid]

Good idea.

I haven't seen one too.
I think I mostly test it myself with 100-1000 bets to see if the results will be the right percentage as what should be expected.

Thinking about a live video of the outcome from owners of the gambling sites.
But no, it might be edited.
So, what or who can prove this. It should be something or someone trusted.
Freebies for game testers. 

[Bezobraznike]

   I talked with people who check random bets before they try it with more money, and these guys I talked with like to generate new
seeds after some time. They gamble with bots, and everything is automatic.
   I don't verify provably fair, I am a small gambler. And it's not a big thing if I lose some, win some, it's just entertainment for me,
and I gamble just on trusted crypto-casinos. But who bets with larger capital should do checks more often, if they have concerns
about the casino where they gamble.

[Twentyonepaylots]

Gambling results may appear to be bullshit but they are truly what they are most of the time. It may be almost impossible to imagine to lose 28 consecutive hands in a blackjack but it happens. In the same manner that a dice game with 50% winning chance could also give you 30 consecutive losing rolls.

Well talking about probability, yes it could be, you could lose 30 times in a row but I really really doubt that the result will stick to a single outcome like all 50 high for 30 consecutive? It may happen but it is nearly impossible. It is different with blackjack, you can control your card in blackjack wherein if you lose that's all your fault.

It's a good idea to use a third party verifier rather than using an onsite tool that was created by the casino you are checking up on. The whole idea here is to remove the need for you to place your trust into casinos. 

This is where you need to rely on the trust rating of the casino, and you should see this with trusted rating website, those who can't be paid as much as possible.

[Quidat]

This was just discussed at one casino as well earlier today, I won't say names, but I think there is a misconception about what provably fair means. RNG systems that people respect and acknowledge aren't the same as PF. PF should mean you can verify on your own without relying on 3rd party sites.

That's what I am talking about. Provably Fair is very missleading, a large part of the players understands by it something, which is actually not meant and weighs itself in false security.
The problem here is that this can be exploited by casinos, which may scam their players(no payout of larger amounts, ...). It is enough to write "We are provably fair" on the website and you will get an unjustified trust advance.

Therefore I think OP has a point, do we have a 3rd party site that we can verify if the result of a certain site is really provably fair?
I'm still interested with it though I mostly focus on sports betting where it's not really necessary as games can be fix or not, I just have to be at the right side.

Comparing sports  to those traditional dice and slot games are different but even though fixed games do really happen but verifying it  would really be nearly impossible.
There are indeed sites that do verify out bets but most people doesnt care on checking things out as long they do deal with known or popular sites then they do
automatically consider that it is fair.This had been always a behavior on where people stick into places where majority is been playing presuming that the site
is already fair basing of on player numbers.

[Darker45]

Gambling results may appear to be bullshit but they are truly what they are most of the time. It may be almost impossible to imagine to lose 28 consecutive hands in a blackjack but it happens. In the same manner that a dice game with 50% winning chance could also give you 30 consecutive losing rolls.

Well talking about probability, yes it could be, you could lose 30 times in a row but I really really doubt that the result will stick to a single outcome like all 50 high for 30 consecutive? It may happen but it is nearly impossible. It is different with blackjack, you can control your card in blackjack wherein if you lose that's all your fault.

It is nearly impossible until it happens. So, yeah, it happens.

You cannot control your card in blackjack. Every card dealt is random whether it uses a single deck or multiple decks. Of course, you may take a hit but, again, the additional card you will get is going to be random. And in a simulated blackjack game, you should still verify its fairness from time to time to make sure you are not being cheated.

[jademaxsuy]

Well, I do not know what kind of gambling platform you are talking about but I am pretty sure that there are too many sites you can try and can validate the fairness of the gambling site.

There are many gambling site to start with and this is why the best thing to do is to start looking first the best gambling platform. I bet the most stable gambling platform are those platform promoted here in the forum. This is an assurance because most of the gambling sites here are been operating for some time.

[bobyhodob]

Well, I do not know what kind of gambling platform you are talking about but I am pretty sure that there are too many sites you can try and can validate the fairness of the gambling site.

There are many gambling site to start with and this is why the best thing to do is to start looking first the best gambling platform. I bet the most stable gambling platform are those platform promoted here in the forum. This is an assurance because most of the gambling sites here are been operating for some time.

I think there are still some gambling places that still can't be fair because usually the fair possibility posts are only on or in front of the gambling site's website but sometimes they insert an encryption script that makes enemies often lose.

[MCobian]

I can understand your suspicion of fairness that exists on gambling sites, sometimes I also experience the same thing.
When playing dice has 30 lost in row with win chance 47.5%, I always question the fairness of the gambling site. There
should be third party services that help do provably fair verification, instead of using provably fair verification from gambling
sites itself.

[SaShiRaJaVu]

So many results are obviously complete bullshit.  Has anyone found a third party site that we the players can use to verify results of blackjack and slots and whatever other questionable outcomes we encounter?

Which site you are talking about, even i have not come across a third party site to check and verify all my rolls. The reason is you need to have your server seed, client seed and Nonce to verify your bets and enter manually all these strings of long data and if you are playing for a long time and if you want to verify everything it is going to take a very long time. I only play in a site i trust and i sometimes verify if i am on a loosing streak, if not i usually will not bother.

[jademaxsuy]

I think there are still some gambling places that still can't be fair because usually the fair possibility posts are only on or in front of the gambling site's website but sometimes they insert an encryption script that makes enemies often lose.

Yeah of course, gambling for others is business even some uses gamblingn platform to scam. If you can visit the reputation section then you can see few gambling platform with bad reputation.

There are gambling platform that welcome you with hug bonus as sign in bonus in joining their platform. Before yo can withdraw you are ask to play the game and of course win that game. However, when you will going to withdraw the bonus and the winning profits of the game the dev will going to ask a processing fee like some sort of btc to deposit before one can withdraw which shows that this activity is clearly a scam activity. Why would ask for a certain deposit before one can withdraw? why not deduct it to tye funds to be withdrawn?

[pikkie]

I think there are still some gambling places that still can't be fair because usually the fair possibility posts are only on or in front of the gambling site's website but sometimes they insert an encryption script that makes enemies often lose.

Yeah of course, gambling for others is business even some uses gamblingn platform to scam. If you can visit the reputation section then you can see few gambling platform with bad reputation.

There are gambling platform that welcome you with hug bonus as sign in bonus in joining their platform. Before yo can withdraw you are ask to play the game and of course win that game. However, when you will going to withdraw the bonus and the winning profits of the game the dev will going to ask a processing fee like some sort of btc to deposit before one can withdraw which shows that this activity is clearly a scam activity. Why would ask for a certain deposit before one can withdraw? why not deduct it to tye funds to be withdrawn?

when there are gambling places that do like that they usually have a minimum amount of withdrawal so that maybe this feature can impose restrictions on players to make small withdrawals and only make large withdrawals, until now there are some gambling places that apply it. one of them is Fortunejack which provides a minimum withdrawal limit but has very high confidence.

My advice is when you want to choose a gambling place, then you have to see some of the information in this forum or you can also post to the announcement thread from the gambling website that you can search at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=56.0 , after that you can read one by one the very important information you can get from there.

[khaled0111]

Which site you are talking about,

he already answered that, check his last reply #8

you need to have your server seed, client seed and Nonce to verify your bets and enter manually all these strings of long data and if you are playing for a long time and if you want to verify everything it is going to take a very long time.

you don't have to check all the results, just those you think they are rigged.

@OP, most reliable casinos have a PF page where they explain in details how their provably fair system works and most of the times they provide the source code for the script with which you can verify the results, you can copy it and run it locally.

[bonjouros]

I am also curious about this one because I saw that there are many platforms that are saying that they offer a probably fair script but it will be good if a normal
gambler can verify it whether they are telling the truth or not.

So third party application will be very helpful if there is willing to create a platform that will verify their script. I will be looking forward if there will be available in the future.

[dre1982]

I am also curious about this one because I saw that there are many platforms that are saying that they offer a probably fair script but it will be good if a normal
gambler can verify it whether they are telling the truth or not.

So third party application will be very helpful if there is willing to create a platform that will verify their script. I will be looking forward if there will be available in the future.

There are some third parties which verify the casino's. Like cryptogambling.org for example. All the biggest dice sites have been verified by them.

I noticed on Duckdice even their Random Number Generator is certified (https://duckdice.io/storage/downloads/RNG_Certificate_UK_Sabant_BV_ITL1902910_12Nov19.pdf)

[shoreno]

Well, I'am not sure about what kind of gambling platform you are talking about. There are many gambling sites to start with..

he mention the games blackjack and slots as a few example  . that games fall on a casino type gambling but he didnt mention a site name .  

we dont know if he is shy to say or he tries to protect the reputation of the site  but you said lots of sites do have this same problem  ? not aware with that  , maybe you are only playing on an unfair gambling site because fair gambling sites will not cheat on thier players  .  they just accept the result if players win they loose  .