Bitcoin Forum

Guys,

I was initially attracted to Bitcoin several years ago because of ease of doing micropayments cheap and quickly across large distances. Then I witnessed how Bitcoin migrated to being an investment and speculative asset while micropayment capability faded away somewhat because of high network fees.

Now, the Bitcoin Lightning Network allows to revive that micropayment capability providing quick transfer times and low fees.

So, let's use it and bring micropayments back into the Bitcoin world!

(1) Download any Lightning-enabled Wallet (Electrum, Wallet of Satoshi, etc)
(2) Post your first Lightning Payment Request for 200 satoshis here in this thread
(3) I will send you 200 satoshis to get you started with the Lightning Network
(max. 4000 - 5000 satoshis per day)


PS
A good overview of that technology is here:
https://cointelegraph.com/explained/lightning-network-explained

For the free download wallet, they can choose the Electrum wallet download (https://electrum.org/#download) for free. Electrum now has a feature that you can able to use Lightning Network. Just heads up to this thread and read carefully in every detail because upon having set up of LN transaction it seems crucial for me. Electrum Lightning Network walkthrough (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5259973.0).

Anyway, is there a minimum number of participants that can able to ask you a 200 sats for the test of Lightning Network transaction? It seems you're being generous here. Fo a good intention, I'm glad people talking about Lightning Network so that everyone have an idea how to use this.

I like the initiative too and I have already joined your Telegram group too. Other people who would like to participate can join the group on this link: https://t.me/joinchat/SE9pUBhPceH6ZyFn6cZTig (https://t.me/joinchat/SE9pUBhPceH6ZyFn6cZTig).

Very generous of you to use your resources to spread awareness and nudge people to start using the LN.

The bitcoin lightning network fee is very low, it can be as low as 0.000001 satoshi ($0.000000000100517) as an average fee.

https://i.imgur.com/xxRJLIu.png
https://1ml.com/statistics

But, payment is also required for setting up and closing of a channel. Like on electrum wallet, you can customize/edit the fee. It is the same as the fee used for on-chain transactions which is subjected to memorypool size.

Lightning network fee for bitcoin is so small.

For those who've decided to use Electrum 4.0.1 to 4.0.3 for Lightning wallet:

• Be informed that you'll be needing at least 0.002BTC + transaction fee to open a channel to a "suggested node" (direct is quite hard to pull off).
  But that should be enough to send funds through LN, you cannot receive at that moment,
  you need to spend some funds first to gain "inbound capacity", or use "Swap" (submarine swap, it comes with a service fee).
  
  
• Also, do not close/force-close channel(s) during "busy mempool" times when the priority transaction fee is high
  because Electrum currently doesn't have an option to change the fee rate for closing channel transactions.
  In my experience, I've lost about 0.001BTC+ from my closed channel funds due to very high transaction fee.

ever since bitcoin started being traded against fiat (which was in the first 2 years) some people have been treating it as an investment/speculative-asset but that doesn't change the nature of bitcoin or its capabilities, it is their view.
the micropayments are still possible, they just cost more from time to time when fees go up. and LN is not going to fix a single (or even a couple of) micropayment high fee cost it can only help if you have many micropayments to do in one channel.

Also, for those who wants to try out Lightning without doing anything slightly complicated, I suggest trying out Phoenix Wallet. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5250677

If anyone interested to learn how to create a LN channel- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5212243.0
It's one time payment only; when you need to fund the channel or withdraw the fund from LN to on chain but that's unlikely to happen as most of the time as a normal people, we only need to pay bill (therefore, fund the channel). ;)

In case if someone here is only interested in using a mobile wallet because of the ease to use it in day to day transactions then there are three wallets that I would like to recommend. All three are available for both Android and iOS.

• Blue Wallet
• Wallet of Satoshi
• Breeze Wallet

Remember the above-listed wallets are hot wallets and are not meant to store Bitcoin for the long run. They are better for transaction purpose only. DYOR.

I did a little research and put together a list of all the Lightning-enabled wallets (to follow up on posts before me).

These are the most popular wallets for the various platforms I have found:

LN-enabled Bitcoin Wallet	||	Platforms	||	Website
================================	||	=============================	||	=====================
Electrum [non-custodial]	||	Windows, Mac, Linux and Android	||	https://electrum.org/
Zap [non-custodial]	||	Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS and Android (alpha)	||	https://zaphq.io/
Breez [non-custodial]	||	iOS and Android	||	https://breez.technology/
Bitcoin Lightning Wallet (BLW) [non-custodial]	||	Android only	||	https://lightning-wallet.com/
Eclair Mobile by ACINQ	||	Android only	||	https://acinq.co/
Phoenix [non-custodial]	||	Android only	||	https://phoenix.acinq.co/
Zeus [non-custodial]	||	iOS and Android	||	https://zeusln.app/
Wallet of Satoshi [custodial]	||	iOS and Android	||	https://www.walletofsatoshi.com/
Tippin.me [custodial]	||	Chrome or Firefox browser extension	||	https://tippin.me/
Blue Wallet [custodial]	||	iOS and Android	||	https://bluewallet.io/

This is not a recommendation, so DYOR! ;) If anyone knows of any other wallet software that should be on the list, please let me know so I can add it.

I wonder, is there a way to receive via LN on Android? I tapped on the "Lightning" option but so far it showed Gossip, Nodes, Channels and Pending info.

Unless I'm missing out on something.

I think it's the same as on the desktop version, you have to open the LN channel first.

Check out this tutorial: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5259973.0

My first Lightning Payment Request for 200 satoshis :)
 
lnbc2u1p04ur8ldqqcqzgapp5n39pa0v57800advk86cww8ups2g4mycjytyxdspqmf9pf7xe24dsxq yz5vprzjqv2ylnrne6jp5qpt9pjlnqvs4wgwfl6c5t8zf5u8pag8jzq7g2fz6qnc3zkce2u0xvqqqql gqqqqqeqqjqjcvss49nuxclwjt4udrxv29rjquzdft9zwr84kx03w58mwnf64p5qjrrv4suhrzdl43x cdcf7w7wq7xu5l98jthcnez402nq87cucjqp2p7nt9

https://i.ibb.co/2dxwS40/qr.png (https://ibb.co/rHYg3rK)

Eh, payment failure on my side (Wallet of Satoshi). Will try Blue Wallet in a moment.

EDIT: Blue Wallet fails too. If you installed Electrum, please try either Wallet of Satoshi or Blue wallet. They technically much easier.

Keep in mind that both of you need to have your wallets open when you are trying to send a payment. It is not possible to receive and route Lightning Network payments while being offline.

I just learnt about it after reading up on it. Seems very interesting. I don't have any coins to open up a channel. Which I understand is needed for the transaction fee(right?). But as soon as I have some coins available. I'll give it a shot after reading up more about it. One question though. The coins received through LN are not spendable, is that correct? Until the channel closes??

Start easy.

Don't overwhelm yourself too much with details, channels etc.

Download one of easiest wallets (Blue Wallet, Wallet of Satoshi) and post a payment request for 200 sats here .

It will work.

The coins in LN are spendable if the counterpart accepts them, if not you can use them as normal btc (onchain).

Thanks, didn't know that.

There is a good workaround using Lightning Gifts (www.lightning.gifts).

Used an alternative method. Sent you a Lightning Gift (see the link in PM)

I managed to pay this invoice using Electrum just now:
https://i.imgur.com/PJDrJ3b.png

Maybe he's offline when you tried to send him funds (both tries), he didn't have inbound capacity at that moment or both wallet's channels doesn't route quite well.

BIG THANKS for that.

In any way, I found a good workaround if the receiving part could be offline. You just send a Lightning gift (www.lightning.gifts) and the receiving party can redeem it when they want.

Good thing that there are features you have just been discovered OP to give funds even when the receiving party is offline. The developer has been observed seeing this already and created a feature that will satisfy users and will remain user friendly as it could be like other bitcoin wallets. Anyway, I am starting to like the bitcoin lightning network and probably this could be the future of bitcoin transfer in the future or one of the best choice for bitcoin transfer.

Especially, for micro- and minipayments! Lightning is quick and cheap.

Just for fun, I am hosting a Live Lightning Dice for people to try Lightning micropayments (bet=100 sats) (disclaimer: it's a non-profit project, i run it for promoting Lightning ):

http://tawk.to/bpovtmg

For the new Lightning users, first 200 sats are free from me to play around with Receiving/Sending Lightning payments.

Also checkout a simple faucet giving you 100 LN satoshis:

https://lnpay.co/t/27bad6/web

You need to have a Lightning Wallet installed and configured.

To avoid initial configuration issues, I would advise to start easy with custodial wallets like Blue Wallet or Wallet of Satoshi.

You will be able to migrate to Electrum later (I didn't because Wallet of Satoshi is fully OK for my micro- and mini-payments via LN).

lnbc2u1p0kqwpupp56aumwh6n48wge87368yutrjx6qeq0420gphdxvs7p4umd78wr3dqdqu2askcmr 9wssx7e3q2dshgmmndp5scqzpgxqyz5vqsp56wydsufkv80kgmym5x08le3tswlk20s4fwweaz9w7ny 02mh8pr7s9qy9qsqukhccwagvl2wzrk4z78vxqxw5gj0m4sygdaxlwy53vqlw37gd2p43yhdtgq2n0f wqsc0ewvwawnm0kxw0sqf7z9730ylqf2zakxqrnqpc65yax

First time trying using wallet of Satoshi...

lnbc2u1p0kqw8epp565ep809yk6najyvgxgyc6chd43qgrnf4xt2y4wkdsqvg2lf3397qdqu2askcmr 9wssx7e3q2dshgmmndp5scqzpgxqyz5vqsp55a02s0yf3svug3rdcrnp0mdpqsjtsnjepyk6k9jryn4 as4gm4sfq9qy9qsqkz0m2quw260glj9mzxzqk8qcvzszddtlg8h2xgsvsrcrr9v4ww296pcde36qtex 7ssqt7qlmmyjxhvaguc8rfte6z7m58g2q2fvf7aspd6cfek

Thanks!

Never tried LN before... Am I doing it correctly?

lnbc2u1p0kqw6tpp5e0qgl8q8hdmu3wyqh5a8ue7g07dsdhy6dhc3ravf8yymlyh57s8qdqu2askcmr 9wssx7e3q2dshgmmndp5scqzpgxqyz5vqsp5vpnafxfdx2a50xjrcs24u925sl4l3ktmw3tjxe8w0wk m54h5jwuq9qy9qsqfutv9gmzgrvn3u5m06t45m6jwvjcwadpmgyqwwhzar0e0ku3kxkj929fkuypu04 9p7rzz7jalmmt08cn4mfjhvtng668f4kxunn6c5gpax48y4

@bpovtmg Mind if I step in? (I already did actually, yesterday)
These three invoices have the same NodeID: 02004c625d622245606a1ea2c1c69cfb4516b703b47945a3647713c05fe4aaeb1c
I've also paid one of the invoices.


If anyone knows 'Wallet of Satoshi', does it use a single NodeID for all of the user's wallet?

For newbies, please enclose your invoice inside [code][/code] tags so the forum wont format it with spaces.

Thanks for your help! You think it's the same guy using different accounts?

It is very likely since it is a custodial wallet. I have looked up their name on the 1ml.com explorer (https://1ml.com) and found two nodes (#1 (https://1ml.com/node/02004c625d622245606a1ea2c1c69cfb4516b703b47945a3647713c05fe4aaeb1c) and #2 (https://1ml.com/node/029707c0881747e9a359eddc62a50c71e7640f89aa8aa3992b8c809dc32ae675f9)). The former is the one which generated those invoices. The latter has a much lower capacity so it might not belong to that service at all.

I didn't jump to conclusions since I'm not familiar with "Wallet of Satoshi".
There's a possibility but if it's a custodial wallet as pointed above, it can be the server's node.

Anyways, I'll try to pay some active invoice to help you with this very good initiative and to increase their LN micro funds.

Thanks, really appreciate your help.

I think I have a kind of a similar problem here with my 100 sats Lightning faucet:

https://lnpay.co/t/27bad6/web

One destination node drained the faucet in a short time (node 037cc5f9f1da20ac0d60). I suspect it's just one guy doing that. I am checking with the LnPay guys if we can solve that

Great initiative to make Lightning Network more popular!
Most of the people don't have any idea how LN is working and never even tried to send or receive coins.
Now is the perfect time we all start using it.

I found one topic made by hugeblack with most LN supported wallets made by:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5252739.0

Do your own research before using any of this wallets.

I see that several popular wallets like Electrum and Wallet of Satoshi are missing from this list.
I did a little research on my own and these are the most popular LN wallets for the various platforms I have found:

Great to see this taking off and more people are joining in, I'm already part of this and joined the Telegram group, won the prize, didn't have time to play some dice with the gang :D It is secondary anyway, fun though, but more important thing is that we are all learning about using LN.

Transactions are really fast though, I was pleasantly surprised, haven't tried sending any yet, so if there is someone new who wants to receive some satoshis, you can put your address here or on TG group and I'll give it a go and send some.

I have about 50000 satoshis at the moment.

Thanks, Crypto Warrior! It's really cool to see the LN thing lifting off!

Other members are cordially invited to join our LN (and other) fun here:
https://t.me/joinchat/SE9pUBhPceH6ZyFn6cZTig

Great initiative! I'll take some of the LN-requests if I see them (assuming you don't mind).

I've tested several LN-wallets, and now prefer the ones that don't ask me to manually create channels. Out of all wallets mentioned in this topic, BlueWallet is my favourite custodial wallet, Phoenix is my favourite non-custodial wallet. Especially for small amounts, I don't mind trusting a wallet, and I don't want to go through the hassle of creating a channel and inbound capacity. As always, don't put in more than you're willing to lose!

That only matters if you open your own channel. If you use a custodial wallet, it'll just work.

I've created a 200 sat gift (https://lightning.gifts/redeem/b00adbe9a97f8d484feb0d21745a69dc402d74bfd7054e0b). Free for whoever takes it first.
An alternatived is sat2.io (http://sat2.io/). I haven't tested it because it sends funds to a phone number. I more or less trust it because it's promoted by BlueWallet on Telegram.

---

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When posting a payment request, it's easiest if you add [code-tags] around it. Without that, it's easiest to copy the entire payment request from a mobile device by clicking the quote button first. This removes all spaces in between the long string.

Join the TG group :D  I'm posting again to say I'm open for requests here too since I don't see much activity now on Telegram.

I have a LN gift for first person that comes to this topic and join Telegram group - BPOVTMG Free LN (https://t.me/bpovtmg_giveaways/).

When you join the Telegram group write your TG handle here and I will send you a LN gift.

I barely use Telegram. For security, I run it inside a VM, and don't often turn it on.

Seriously? But why? Are there any Telegram related security threats I should be aware of?

Seriously!

I never install software I don't trust on any system that I use for other things. Actually, this is the reason I didn't install Bitcoin-qt when I first heard about it (and I still regret that decision).

I didn't look for them, I just do it as a precaution. Just like all altcoin and Forkcoin wallets. If it can't reach my host OS, it can't get compromised.

But you can use it at a separate phone and as a web app.

TG is amazing. I agree we should be more cautious regarding the desktop app.

I don't want more phones, and I use Discord as a web app already.

It's taken :)

This is a good precaution. I try to force myself to use the VM for such things as much as possible but somehow they always end up inside my main OS.

I think I will have to revoke my administrator privileges on my own computer. :D

I prefer to do it without learning the hard way ;)
The same for LN wallets: I've tested many of them on Android, but never on my daily use phone. Most of them are on a tablet now. I always start small, but somehow balances tend to grow when I add more of them. I try to keep it under a hundred bucks per device. It still sucks to lose it, but it's a risk I can accept.
I've also used old phones (I guess everyone has a pile of those nowadays), but the broken screens and lack of memory make them hard to use.

Btw OP, I tried claiming the gift but it somewhat "failed" and became invalid afterwards.

Thanks for the offer though, I managed to enable LN on Electrum by creating another LN-compatible address. 

From OP's post:

So, have you posted your payment request in this thread? I did not see it.

He sent me a PM prior so I did receive the link.

Hi, guys!

Just wanted to expand our help options a little bit. Let's move into another thread if you don't mind:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5276985.0

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