Bitcoin Forum

About the recent trend on Bitcoin which some companies started to buy Bitcoins and make it as the company's reserve. Recent was the Square company.

So my purpose of this thread is to talk about the companies that have Bitcoin as company reserve.

Is the government can seize or they have the right for those Bitcoins they bought? If ever there will be some serious violations on the low for any companies that owns Bitcoin as company reserve?


Here, we can see some of the companies that already owned Bitcoin : Bitcoin Treasuries in Publicly Traded Companies (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5280898.msg55341952#msg55341952)

If one stock investor decides to make investment into stock of a company because it starts or has bitcoin investment or has part of company reserve in bitcoin, that investor is totally make bad decision.

I don't know how government can seize bitcoin (it is impossible). Governments can only arrest company owners and take their bitcoin private keys. It is not direct way to seize bitcoin reserve.

Your questions reminds that bitcoiners must choose non custodial wallets to use and to store their bitcoin investment. Rely on other companies for bitcoin investment or use custodial wallet is bad and probably brings troublesome.

Why the questions?

1. Bitcoin is unseizable.
2. Of course they have the full rights over the Bitcoins they legally acquired, and out of their own legally-acquired money. Bitcoin is unlike fiat and other things which cannot really be owned. The Bitcoins that they own are 100% theirs. They have total control and ownership of their Bitcoins.
3. If there were violations then these companies must have already be warned or asked not to get involved with it.

I figure the scenario here is to be interpreted from a legal standpoint. As such, corporate reserves in Bitcoin should logically only be held where it is clearly supported by the regulations, and I figure that those on the list of Bitcoin Treasuries in in Public Traded Companies (https://bitcointreasuries.org/) has got that covered (the list has expanded from six entries in your other post, to fifteen now). Besides that, corporations are submitted to procedures, as I figure MicroStrategy’s Form 8-K filling (https://sec.report/Document/0001193125-20-244732/) pursues. Corporations lacking that legal framework, that venture to hold some of their reserves in Bitcoin, may be exposing themselves to unnecessary risks.

The Bitcoins acquired need to also be of legal nature in origin, otherwise they’re viable to being seized. Now if a given country were to declare Bitcoin illegal overnight (worst case scenario), one would expect that the corporations could liquidate their Bitcoin reserves in a speedy manner, avoiding being accused of illegal tenancy. A bit far-fetched though if the regulations are properly founded and assessed, but not all countries are alike in that sense.

It's only unseizable in a way that the government wouldn't even know that you have bitcoin if you take your privacy seriously; that, or you could make some excuse that you've lost your bitcoin one way or another(see: boating accident).

As for these public companies though? Knowing that needed to publicize their bitcoin purchases? The bitcoin is "unseizable" until the government threatens to fine them or put them to jail.

That is some bad news. They are just straight up robbed of their finances. Its possible for the government to step up if they are within Government property since they can seize foreign or unknown items BUT Bitcoin is a currency within the Internet. It just sounds like they know what is happening and straight up robbed them. That also depends on the type of government they are running within their country. A communist state might be the worst kind to have Bitcoin (imo).

Who robbed who? Nothing happened yet. OP was just asking a hypothetical question. The BitcoinTreasury website only shows the current public companies that allocated some of their cash on bitcoin; it's not a list of amounts of bitcoin that the government stole lol.

Government can seize anything from a company - be it their real estate or even bitcoin under the appropriate section of the law. However, such kind of thing only happens if a company violates some serious laws or fails to pay back its lenders. Since bitcoins are kept as a reserve cash, that's seizeable too because these bitcoins are classified as "assets" in the books!

The first question has been answered already, and I agree with the other suggestions, legally it is possible to seize assets owned by a company, in such cases the company directors cannot hide behind plausible deniability, but can deny being in control of the bitcoins at that point, although this would need a lot of covering up as I guess the cold storage address would be recorded in their books even though they're not public.

On the second question, it would depend on the adoption of Bitcoin and the countries those companies are registered in. Although, the decentralized nature of Bitcoin gives such companies a lot of wiggle room.

I think, Govt will  never seize any company just because their reserve is crypto currenices. It has to do with other factors, such as money laundaring, fraud, etc However, you can not answer this queston as Govt will always find some way to nail you down. Specially, If the company belong to USA, then yes they might seize your crypto assets.

Government can't seize your coin rather they can ban and restrict the use or acquisition of it in that country. If you have coins already in your wallet before a ban or seizure exercise, it will still remain in your wallet and you can make use of it if you leave that country. That is saying the seizure can only be effective if you still in the country. That is for an individual but the government can seize a company's asset if they have gone against the rule of the country.

Definitely, the government cannot just seize these bitcoins as long as owning bitcoin in their country is legal. Having something illegal in the companies could turn out differently though. Companies could do whatever they want so having a bitcoin as reserved is not gonna be a problem.

But it seems risky buying or using bitcoin as a company, that might be a big profit at some point but could also go wrong in the future. A lot of unexpected things could happen who knows if bitcoin is going to be the future of currency it could be something that is more high-tech than bitcoin could emerge.

I do not think that the governments will give themselves the right to seize company's reserves of BTC. This in itself will be a massive violation of the law and put a lot of investors at risk, and I don't think governments will want to thread on that at all.

While they could bring forward accusations that companies only did it to escape corporation tax etc but the evidence that they'll seize their BTC funded reserves is immutable.

What I think the governments are thinking about is how to respond to this, and it seems that one way the British government at least is working out is how to join this crypto momentum, in particular creating a central reserve of crypto (source here (https://www.publictechnology.net/articles/news/treasury-and-bank-england-%E2%80%98consider-next-steps%E2%80%99-possible-cryptocurrency-reserve)).
Now that's an interesting feed to keep a close eye on.

As much as I think of bitcoin as only powered by fiat, government can seize bitcoin as it is stated one's company's asset, again it is a fiat in form of digital currency.

" Bitcoin cannot be really owned" I think you are confuse with bitcoin not being a tangible so you called it that way. But in reality they own it as you have said they also have the full right over their owned bitcoin.

Depends on the degree, if it is crime related let's say fraud or scam, then I guess government will take what they legally own for investigation.

You realize that the US has already seized thousands of bitcoins till now and even sold them in auctions, right?


If the judge decides so, depending on the reason why the yes, everything will be seized, take for example Madoff case when houses in France were seized also, if the coins are listed as an asset they will be seized with no much hassle, but first there must be a reason for it. For the second part, if BTC becomes illegal it will have to be though a law, a legal amendment, and in the new regulation banning ownership of crypto, there will be all the details of what companies or investment funds that held till that point cryptos fully legally should do or are obliged to do from now on.

I think it depends on the country's policy on cryptocurrency. If crypto is legal there, there's no way they can seize the bitcoin unless they are investing in BTC in illegal way or to avoid the taxes. Company has their right to make investment decision and if the investment is okay with country laws and regulations, they can't seize BTC. They can only look for the total holding with BTC when there will be tax calculation for the company.

Authorities do not have any backdoor or access to your wallet. Your bank could be ordered to close or freeze your account - the choice and necessary power is at the authority's tip of the finger. But as long as your gov knows you're holding cryptocurrencies as an individual/company and they want to take it away from you, good luck getting away from that.

As long as the laws allow them to seize an asset from you and they feel like it's necessary to do so, no matter if the asset is decentralized or not.. it's going to happen.

We are talking about a company here and this company for sure is legally bound.  If the government sees that these companies are doing illegal activities, then for sure they have the authority, if given by the court, to seize any company's asset and that includes the company's Bitcoin reserve.

Seizing it literrally: NO
Making some issues: YES

We know that government can really fuck up everybody when it comes to legal matters and for this issue then theres no way government can seize out a companies reserve in bitcoin.

Unless if they do had some problems about taxes and other obligations then they would really be sued out and will face up charges or violations which will really be penalized
but on literal side of things where those holdings converted cant really be stolen or confiscate out.

They can't take it from you but they can make you give it anyway. That's their power.

If a company wants to operate legally it has to report all their purchases for tax purposes. The Bitcoin purchase will be there - on paper. If they go bankrupt or became liable for something the authorities can demand they pay a fine or compensate other parties and then they'll have to sell their coins to cover that or have their homes put on auction.

You can have private coins stashed somewhere. They won't be able to get them but they'll take everything else from you and then you'll have to sell your bitcoins to buy food and pay your bills.

Yes, as far as I am aware, the government can seize your bitcoins! I remember few weeks ago I read somewhere that the government seized bitcoin worth around millions from a group (a charity organization or something like that) that were financing terrorists. Not sure, how they seize the coins (probably takes control of the address through private keys and then moves the bitcoin), but they actually can. Has happened multiple times before. Those coins are then auctioned off. So yeah, the government can seize a company reserve that's in bitcoin.

I believe the companies that now choose Bitcoin as their company reserve assets already have some framework as a legal right is a concern and the last time I checked most countries where cryptocurrency is supported tax people based on the income in crypto so I don't see a reason why any serious violation will occur but yes the government may seize the company reserve if a serious violation happens.

Everyone is waiting for a big rally in BTCitcoin, anyone who ever invested in any financial asset in the past ten years will know that BTCitcoin is getting ready for another rally and with the economic situation is not that great and these companies do not want to risk investing in any other asset they are solely concentrating on the BTCitcoin market. There are many companies that invested heavily in the past one year and the only problem i see is that once the market rallies i am expecting all these huge investors booking their profits and the fall will be huge.

If you meant, if a company violates the law is it possible for the government to seize the coins, sure the government can and will seize the coins.

I guess it is being closely and carefully studied right now as it already has somehow created a little trend. The worst scenario and my fear is that, since the governments can always find fault whenever they want, they might end up imposing heavy penalties on these companies for having millions of USD in Bitcoin as their reserve.

Of course, the government could seize them if they have established solid grounds. Otherwise, it doesn't have rights to those Bitcoin.

I can't tell you 100% exact answer but to my mind Governments have right to seize anything but according to situation and necessarity. If someone got money in illegal ways, then bitcoin can seize it and there were such moments back when darknets were a new thing (if I amn't mistaken). Also, if someone sends bitcoin in last seconds on burn address or on address that doesn't exist, then governments can do nothing, those coins are really seized automatically.
There is nothing wrong in fact if company owns reserves in bitcoin. Doesn't Bitmain and Bitfury own reserves in BTC? It's not a problem for government and they can't judge any company for this reason or at first they have to change the laws.

Gosh! You made me panic all of a sudden. You have a point and I forgot that I'm using a custodial wallet. Though I know it was 100% legit, I guess I should not be too complacent regarding this matter even knowing that our country don't yet have a concrete crypto regulation so far.

But I hope they can give us ultimatum before its effectiveness if ever implemented in the future (but I hope not at all) because we will suffer for real. I guess its time to start planning of buying a hardware wallet ;D.

If it is proven that a company violates applicable regulations, of course the government has the right to seize anything from the company.
The government can seize Bitcoin too, so the owner of the company should always obey all applicable regulations. And if the company
owner wants to use Bitcoin for the company's reserve funds, I'm sure it won't be published to the public. So it doesn't attract the government's
attention. But as long as Bitcoin is not banned in the country, so in my opinion it is safe to use Bitcoin for the company's reserve funds.
Because the government may not seize Bitcoin without a reason.

In the case of these companies that have publicly announced that they have invested in BTC, it is actually very easy to seize their crypto assets, or better to say that it is very easy to freeze those assets. I can't say for sure how these companies store their BTC, but I believe that most use custodial wallets and that most of these BTCs are very likely on Coinbase.

In other words, it makes no difference whether someone has a fiat in a bank, or has a BTC in a crypto bank - and no matter how positive it is for companies to invest in a BTC, if they don’t stick to the “not your keys, not your coins” rule then they are exposed at all times not only to the possibility of hacking, but also to the fact that their funds may be frozen.

https://news.bitcoin.com/german-authorities-confiscate-30-million-bitcoin-pirate-movie-site/

https://www.coindesk.com/tag/bitcoin-seizure

https://news.bitcoin.com/tether-freezes-millions-of-dollars-usdt-40-addresses/

maybe thats why trying to ban privacy coins.

Just as anyone with access to your wallet can steal your bitcoin, the government can seize someone's coins by simply requiring their key. But if you're asking if they can take over the blockchain, no they can't. It's a system run by thousands of nodes from all over the world. They will have to seize all of those nodes to have some control over the blockchain. They will also have to take over exchanges and online wallet providers. But they won't be able to access desktop and hardware wallets unless they go after each bitcoin holder. But no one in their right mind would go that far. It will require the combined efforts of all congresses from all countries. That will take a huge amount of time, effort, and money, too.     

Company reserve like bitcoin is considered as financial assets. I think that it will be included in seizure because laws that surround it are vague for a purpose. There might be disputes in regards to this but the sooner the financial department studies all the possible angles to make crypto asset move out of the grey area, the better.

I think the companies put money into BTC not because of potential issues with the government, but rather due to raising concerns about the USD due to overprinting, and also because of the poor economic situation (Bitcoin might look like a chance to profit). I'm sure the government would not have troubles seizing their funds in BTC if the authorities can prove it was used for fraud. After all, they take bitcoins used for financial crimes and then even sell them on auctions, so why should this be any different? But other than that, if it's a private company, I think the funds belong to the owners of the company and the authorities have no right to take these funds.

The government does not have the right to confiscate Bitcoin from a business if it is clearly declared and not involved in criminal activity.
Of course, their hosting must be permitted by law.
The regulations regarding bitcoin are not the same in every country and we need to respect the government's regulations.

they have done it already multiple times! the "companies" weren't as big but still they were companies called "bitcoin exchanges". a couple of them were closed and their assets seized.
that is what happens with centralization and there is no avoiding that.

So these companies who declared they own BTC just risk themselves from getting seized. Terrible things could happen but what are the grounds that the government will sieze their BTC holdings?

These companies are in US afaik so they are also bound to the laws which made them declared their BTC assets. They just can't hide it like in other countries.

This is a very subjective question. In short answer is Yes!! But actually it pretty much depends upon the situation and agency. Government doesn't means the federal or the central government of any country. Government includes different agencies who work in various fields like law enforcement, taxation, money laundering etc. So technically it depends on the type of violation that any compnay does. In general assets of a company can generally be seized in an event of non payment of dues by any company. so if any company fails to pay it's creditors yes government can seize Bitcoins also in events of money laundering etc. Bitcoin can be frozen or seized.

In my opinion, the most significant event in recent years was the decision to buy bitcoins by the world's largest sovereign pension fund in Norway. They have now not a very large amount of bitcoins, - about 17000, but this is a very indicative event that clearly hints that bitcoin is accepted now at the highest level.

Governments do seize Bitcoin from people, maybe when they commit some crimes or if the cryptocurrency is illegal in that country. I have read stories of government seizing cryptocurrency that belongs to people, and they do that by taking their private keys from them.

Every company that is functioning under regulation of any government already knows what’s right and wrong. They already know that not following the order as was given to them can result to some punishment, so they will try their best to avoid it. If government can seize Bitcoin that belongs to individuals, maybe they can do the same with institutions. But as I said at first, that can only be when it’s illegal in the country.

Even countries that are not sympathetic to bitcoin like China or Vietnam, they see bitcoin as an asset of the people and people are free to own it.
So I assume that if a company buys bitcoins as a reserve they have total discretion over their bitcoins, the government has no right to seize it.

As of now, there hasn't been any bitcoins seized by the government, and people and companies are still free to own bitcoin and treat it as a legal asset.
I don't know in the future how the government will take cases of companies buying bitcoin and turning it into ownership, but with current regulations they won't collect anyone's bitcoins.

Unless if the intent of such reserve is for illegal, but if the intent is for in the preparation of the coming digital adaptation that seems no problem and there is no reason for the authorities will seize for it.

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From a legal standpoint, it was the right of every individual and even for the company to hold anything they want, in fact, having Bitcoin is not illegal unless if it banned from their country.

First of all, if their county is suitable for reserving bitcoin but not to trade with bitcoin, I don't see any problem there. Also if any country takes a neutral position about cryptocurrency the company can turn their money into crypto, but as there have a matter of tex on every company reserved money or worth of it, they have to continue as the countries rules and requirements. Now if the companies turn their money into crypto and don't pay tax(it's not easy to pay tex for unpredicted currency) the government has full rights to seize it.

There have been many instances of the government seize Bitcoin from companies, because the company was proven to have
carried out illegal activities. So the government seize Bitcoin not because the company was using it as a reserve fund, but because
the company was breaking the rules. Because as long as the company complies with the regulations, it is very safe for the company
to make Bitcoin as reserve funds.

This is good news for fans of bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, companies that have taken a more positive outlook on bitcoin.

Up to this point the government has no right to seize the bitcoins that companies have bought, bitcoin is legally owned and no one can take it out of the hands of companies.

Yes, everyone has ownership of bitcoin as an asset. Governments can only seize bitcoins from companies if they can prove it to be an illegal source of revenue or be used for illegal purposes.
In the event that property is illegal or used for illegal purposes, any currency can be seized.

actually this is not the case here,Bitcoin to be decentralized and volatile can be taken away from us by government?this is what OP is pointing here not because they make crimes or whatever.
If they are breaking the rules then they can at least close the company and take their insurance or other Fiat based money but not Bitcoin
as this is a safe vault for us investors and
if this can be taken that easy so there is a problem here.
you dont really understand the point,it is either they obey or not the thing is the privacy we have in crypto specially Bitcoin.

If a company has a license for their operations in a nation where bitcoin is accepted legally, they are fine.

Government is only have rights to seize illegal bitcoin that they have proof of money laundering and the nations AML law regulations to be applied. Company when decide to add bitcoin to their reserve pool will not buy bitcoin from darkmarket sources. They will do it legally from pure soures.

I think companies are fine with their bitcoin reserve pools.

Seizing Bitcoin by companies is not possible because the government has to prove that bitcoin is harming the economy or that the bitcoins the companies are holding have an unclear origin or from criminal activity.
It depends on each country's specific policy governing bitcoin. Some countries prohibit people from owning, some prohibit use as a means of payment. It is perfectly legal for companies in the US to invest in or own bitcoins because the US allows that to happen.
These companies would not be foolish to put large amounts of their money into an asset they were forbidden to own.

Government can not restrict the wallet from all forms of transaction except restrict the user or owner the access to the wallet. Anonymity may not be the feature to boast on but the decentralization is still retained and all what the user need is the access password or private key anywhere in the world where there is internet. Twitter and under organization will like to function under the law and bitcoin unlike some token has little restriction on use

In my opinion, if you want to be safe, you should store bitcoins secretly so that the government doesn't know that the company is buying bitcoin for company reserves.
if you are in a country that prohibits bitcoin, there is a possibility that the government will confiscate all bitcoins or impose a penalty on the company.

The government will be able to seize the reserves of bitcoins from companies if the laws on illegal ownership of cryptocurrencies are adopted!
Also if the government can prove the illegality or fraud of the organization, it will also be able to seize the bitcoins...
It seems to me that the state can do anything it wants, especially if it is a totalitarian state...

the question is whether the government knows the company has bitcoin?
many companies that own bitcoin are not known to the public.
if the government doesn't know then how can the government confiscate bitcoins in the company?

In other words, they have the power to seize our properties even we are in decentralized. As long as the company runs illegally, bitcoin will get to them by the power of search warrant. What I think is that, where did they use the collected bitcoins whenever they seized it in illegal companies? Unlike with drugs, it can be burned. Bitcoin will not be burned unless they converted it into fiat and back it to the bank. Well, it is impossible since there are government officials who are blinded by money. They probably hide it to their pocket and they just make a news release on where the busted bitcoin goes on.

Yeah, that's the main question is, if they really know the thing about if the company has some bitcoin as their reserve. But if they have some laws that the company should state their overall income and budget, they will have some hard time explaining if the authority finds out about their company reserved. Nevertheless, the laws in each country will depend on how they will react to that thing. As for us, our knowledge is very limited because of the lack of information that we know.

It's impossible to "seize" bitcoin. How will they do that? Waterboard you until you give up your private key? Your private reserve is totally up to the company and investors. It has nothing to do with the government.


Look at my comment above....
This will never happen. The government struggles to evict and keep violent criminals behind bars how do you think they going to deal with this?

Government control the companies in the country what and what they are producing and the one not to produce. Government cannot seize bitcoin because is a decentralized any where in the world. Government have the power to verify the company that hold the bitcoin but they don't have the power to control bitcoin in the world. I don't think government has the power to seize the company reserve bitcoin.

The government can seize anything you give to them!  :-* ;)

The government has the power over many things under the country according to the law whether you will fight it out as a case or not. But seizing the bitcoin may be a little difficult because until they gain access to the wallet of the company, asides that it may probably be hacked be through the internet if you refuse to tender the wallet security code.

No government will interfere if everything is going in a proper channel and as a company they have the rights to hold anything as company reserve. There are many companies that hold bitcoin and some are public and any investment in bitcoin cannot be a private encounter as it involves movement of fiat currency and everything is accountable.

Governments can seize everything they want as long they want including Bitcoin, Gold, money or anything else.
If someone invest in Bitcoin and not holding private keys for that Bitcoin than in fact he does not have that Bitcoin, and everyone in crypto knows saying not your keys is not your bitcoins.
Best option is to invest in BTC and secure it with multisig so that nobody including government can take it away from you.

Accessing it literally is impossible because only the company would really have the only access since it is the only one who do possess its keys but if government do decide on legal manner then
they might really have the chance or would really put you up into a hard situation but the only thing that i cant think of is anything that do violates in terms of tax then thats one hell of a problem
which can really possibly giving you no choice but if theres nothing wrong then government cant do anything with those reserve.Company does have the rights on how and where they would
convert out their cash.If something or violation had been committed then you would really be put up on a hard situation.

Yeah, I seen it as a welcomed development because now companies has started buying bitcoin and also reserved some cryptocurrencies especially bitcoin in particular, and it will enable bitcoin to increase in market and also make it's price to accelerates more than our expectations. I actually understood that while companies are going into cryptocurrency especially bitcoin its because they have notice that bitcoin don't really have much taxe and it's decentralized and government don't actually have power for it's regulations via rising and falling aspect of it. And it can be in wallet for your provided that your private key is intact.