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I think at this point even if the election was rigged, we should focus on fixing the problems going forward. Having Trump continue to be president after Biden was widely announced as the winner would be a strange asterisk on election results that would be an embarrassment to America. While this is the most typical 2020 election result we could have expected, I’m not sure we want to carry this on beyond January 20th.

What do you think? Is it about who rightly won or respecting the given outcome?

Living a lie is living in failure, even if the failure becomes apparent down the road.

If the people want evil and corruption, then everything that Trump can do won't stop the evil.

Getting out of the evil by letting the truth of the election be forthcoming, and then acting on it, is a great start towards truth. Most people want the truth. Accepting evil won't bring them greater truth than accepting good.

8)

I mean if Trump really did win the election, that would assume that election fraud is really happening and Trump wasn’t able to prove it. I think all of that can’t really be true at the same time due to the fact that Donald Trump has the full force of the DOJ and FBI and (insert more alphabet agencies names here) to help him prove his case to the American people.

Plus like — are you paying off local people at county level to make this all happen? No on ends up speaking and blowing all of this up? Sounds very unlikely.

But if Trump did win the election and was unable to prove that there was fraud, then Joe Biden wins. It’s not up to Biden to show he won legitimately, it’s up to Trump and his team to prove fraud occurred.

Is it about who rightly won or respecting the given outcome?
Tough choice, either way the people seem to lose.

Would it be better for America’s faith in the election system to give Biden the presidency?
Almost everyone I know doesn't have faith in the election system. It's always set up to favor the ruling class, and most people either don't care, or know there is nothing we can really do.

It depends very much on your definitions. First of all, "won" is legally defined by whatever happens on Jan 6. Even if all of the voting machines were hacked, that wouldn't invalidate the result of Jan 6. States are responsible for sending in the correct electoral votes, and then Congress is responsible for overseeing them on Jan 6; any mistakes, errors, or fraud involved in this process don't invalidate the final result. The US is based on the electoral college system, administered by each state individually, not a straight nationwide democratic vote. To some degree, it is and is intended to be a political process rather than a "mathematical" process. Some people say that Trump didn't really win in 2016 because he lost the popular vote. Some people will say that Trump did win in 2020 because of various theories about how the election was rigged. But these don't determine the result.

(Ultimately, even the electoral college result doesn't really determine who wins: the Constitution is not a magical scroll that will strike dead anyone who defies it; whoever is sitting in the oval office with the powers of the President of the United States on Jan 21 is the person who really won, regardless of how he got there.)

It also depends on your view of "best for the country". As an ancap, I think that it'd be best for people to lose faith in government, for US nationalism to degrade, and for the US to eventually fall apart. (Probably it'd fall apart into smaller governments, not into an ancap utopia as I'd prefer, but smaller governments are better than bigger governments.) Therefore, based on my understanding of what'd be best for the people of the US in the long-term, it's best to see chaos here. I'd love to see Trump somehow stay president (even though there's <0.1% chance of this happening): this power struggle itself would degrade the US's cohesion significantly, Trump is a chaos agent, Trump is less competent at wielding the office of the presidency, and those policies that he does successfully pursue tend to be a bit better than the average president anyway.

Now, if you're a US nationalist, then you should definitely want Biden to smoothly take power without much lingering doubt as to the fairness of the process. Even if it was generally agreed that Trump had won fair and square, I'd been thinking pre-election that even this could lead to states like California moving away from the US and toward secession. If Trump somehow remained president at this point, you'd almost certainly see widespread secessionist movements by blue states, if he wasn't outright assassinated first by one of the millions of people absolutely incensed by this event. A huge secessionist movement like this is something I'd like to see, but not something that US nationalists will want. Nationalists should also be worried, though, that Biden is just going to continue the status quo, which is totally unsustainable. Congress is too often deadlocked, passed bills are rare, sane passed bills are even more rare, the system has been 95% on autopilot for decades, and too much power is being concentrated into a bloated executive branch. It reminds me a lot of the late Republic period of ancient Rome. If things continue on their present course, we will eventually see either a dissolution of the Union or a restructuring toward dictatorship. If you want the US to stay together and not become a dictatorship, probably you should want some reforms and constitutional amendments to do things like:
 - Reducing federal power overall, giving more power to local authorities so that California can go one way while Georgia goes another on many issues.
 - Reducing the executive branch's relative power, such as by reinstating the legislative veto and allowing/encouraging the judicial branch to fight against the administrative state to a greater extent instead of deferring to them.
 - Reversing those reforms from the Progressive Era which increased direct democracy and weakened the political parties as institutions. In particular, primaries should be replaced by more exclusive caucuses again, and Senators should be appointed by state legislatures again.
 - I think it'd help if it was much less possible for presidents to get a majority of electoral votes, so that Congress had to tiebreak more often. Maybe this could be done by requiring that each state allocate electors proportionally rather than winner-take-all.
 - Many schools and (especially) universities inculcate anti-nationalist worldviews, which leads people to want to use national institutions for their own ends instead of wanting to preserve/defend national institutions. If you're a nationalist, then you'd want schools/universities to instead inculcate nationalist worldviews.

You can't ever go by who "rightly" won because that leads a subjective interpretation. You go by the raw vote totals -- electoral college votes with respect to the raw vote totals -- winner is decided and takes office on Jan. 21st. There isn't really any other way to win.

For my view, the person who "rightly" won *is* the person who won. It's not an either-or situation.

Election fraud has been going on for 30 years or more. Trump won in 2916 because the Dems weren't expecting him to use election fraud to win. But they were prepared in 2020, and did the election fraud in such large amounts, that Trump wasn't expecting it. Of course, the Dems only proved their criminal attitude this way.

The whole idea behind Trump getting in, in the first place was, so that he could get rid of the corruption. If Biden gets in, the corruption expands. If Trump gets in, the corruptions subsides to a great extent.

That's what the whole election controversy is about, in a nut shell.

8)

If Biden will become POTUS, then the following will happen (it is known, the Democrats don't hide these goals):
1. two more states will be added, Puerto Rico and DC, so four more Democrat senators, for a comfortable Senate majority.
2. SCOTUS will be packed, meaning that the total number of Justices will be 13, and the 4 new Justices will be obviously Democrat.
3. the Electoral College will be terminated, POTUS will be elected by direct vote.
4. citizenship will be granted to ~22 million illegal immigrants, leading to effectively one-party-rule.

I believe that the one who has legally won should rule, be it Trump or Biden. Voter fraud is not foolish and letting someone who has done fraud rule simply so that the United States does not look like a banana republic in the eyes of the world would set a very dangerous precedent. In addition, if fraud has occurred and is ultimately proven, in the future whoever is in a position to attempt fraud will think twice, so I think the reason is twofold.

If he really did win, he sure fucked up by telling lie after lie after lie about this election Election.  (And the 2016 Election.  And all the stuff in between.)  



The Republicans will very likely keep control of the Senate, making 1, 2, and 3 extremely unlikely unless the Democrats take it during the midterms. Bet even if all those things happened, it wouldn't mean all of the sudden the Democrats would all get along and the Republicans would have no power...there would be more elections, things could and would change.  They always do.

If the precedent is set that whenever the Senate is controlled by the Presidents party they can just win the election by not counting votes for their opponent (without a ruling from the courts) - is that still a democracy?

If the voting process is found to have been manipulated in order to select the winner is that still a democracy?  Would it be a good idea for America to acknowledge that the position of president can be chosen by means other than the votes of it's citizens guiding electoral votes for the popular candidate?  That's the question.  While part of me thinks we should always fight for the truth, at some point you have to realize that fighting for the truth can do a lot of collateral damage to the landscape.  People will likely believe what they want to believe anyway, so you have to ask yourself if the juice is worth the squeeze.  At this point, I'm not sure.  Even if Trump is right, is proving it the right thing to do for the country?  Looking behind the curtain doesn't always lead to a free hot air balloon ride to Kansas.

It could be disqualifying depending on the level of manipulation.  Most Authoritarian governments operate behind a charade of democracy where the leader has full control of their version of the 3 American branches of government - and thus the election.


It's already been acknowledged and I think that's fine since the President is not the ruler/king of the country, he just (temporarily) controls one of the three equal branches of government.  What's unfolded over the past month really highlights how vital the separation of power and those checks and balances are between the 3 branches. 

Funny that
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=biden,trump
https://i.ibb.co/KL8YDcv/Untitled.jpg (https://ibb.co/yYxDpmj)

In 2009 when President Bush was leaving office, and transferring power to the new Obama administration, both political parties, including President Bush acknowledged the election was legitimate.

The same cannot be said in 2017 when President Obama was leaving office and preparing to transfer power to the Trump administration. The Obama administration took steps to imply that Russia had gotten Trump elected and that Trump was not a legitimate President. Democrats did the same and pushed unfounded conspiracy theories without any evidence including mainstream Democrats.

Now Trump is trying to delegitimize the Biden Presidency. Unfortunately, his messaging strategy is poor, and in the event he would be able to stay in power, he would be seen as an illegitimate President.

My point is that both major party candidates and both major parties should agree on who should be in power at the start of the next Presidential term. This is ultimately what is best for the belief in the integrity of America's election system. The candidate that won the election should be in power, regardless of if the other candidate was widely announced as the winner. If there is a dispute, it is up to the court system to resolve any disputes according to the constitution and written law.

Election laws and procedures should be clearly defined prior to the start of elections, and they should not change once voters have started casting their votes. It is up to the state legislatures to write election laws, according to the constitution. Unfortunately, in states that Biden won by slim margins, election laws were not followed according to the state legislatures, and procedures were not followed, including allowing election observers from both parties to observe the casting of ballots and the counting of ballots. These are not technicalities, and IMO should be sufficient to throw out the election results. It would be best to call for a new election in these states, and for the election laws and procedures to be followed exactly as written according to state legislatures.

As a technical matter, whatever happens on January 6 will cement who will be President at noon on January 21. My assumption is that Biden will be President at this time.

There is not going to be evidence that votes were changed, or that votes were cast without the person actually casting the votes unless some of the conspiracy theories about Dominion voting machines turn out to be true, which I would find doubtful. The only evidence that will be available is that of irregularities. If additional, substantial evidence of irregularities and/or voter fraud is discovered and is credible, it may be grounds to impeach both Biden and Harris.


If this were to happen, most likely either China or another communist nation would take over what used to be the US, and the rest of the West. You would be living in a "utopia" but not the utopia you would be wishing for, it would be a communist "utopia".

The Cold War was about stopping/reversing the spread of Communism throughout the world. The same is true for the Vietnam and Korean wars. A weak or nonexistent US government would mean there would be nothing to stop Communist countries from exerting their influence on the rest of the world. This is largely how the Europeans were able to take over America from the Indians.

+1 to all of that.

We really aren’t able to go down this weird road of theory because all it’s going to do is have us arguing about conspiracy theories without any real evidence. In theory I could sit here and contest every single election and every single ballot since the start of this republic, though there’s no reason to do that as there’s been no credible allegations of voter fraud that has led to the undermining of faith in the government.

That’s just not where we’re at in the country right now, or have ever been, Trump has not been able to prove that there is fraud which means it’s over.

Whoever is in the office on January 21’st is the President. That person will be Joe Biden and that’ll be the end of it.

^^^ Yeah! We gotta get Joe in there at the same time his criminal life against the USA is exposed. Then we can get him executed for treason.

8)

Trying to put the way the Obama administration handled the 2016 election on the same level as Trump administrations handling of the 2020 election is just as messed up as trying to equate Bidens sexual assault allegations with Trumps.  

The Russia investigation and impeachment had nothing to with overturning an election.  Besides the fact that Russia did interfere in the election to benefit Trump, even if the Senate would have convicted and removed Trump, it's not like Clinton would all the sudden become president.  (I realize impeachment was a separate issue from the Russia probe)

I've been hearing the 2016 transition period constantly be mischaracterized by right wing media in attempt to make Trumps behavior appear acceptable, so let me remind everyone of what happened between election day and the day Trump took office.

Clinton called Trump to congratulate him and the day after the election said this in her concession speech:


Obama called Trump the same day to congratulate him and said he was 'heartened' by the conversation and invited him to the White House immediately.

By all reports the Obama administration went above and beyond to work with the transition team (although Trumps people blew off most of the meetings).

Here's the letter Obama left for Trump:





-

The Obama administration also briefed Trump on the Steele dossier (that was later described by someone in the Obama administration as "unverified") and immediately leaked this to the press. The Obama administration also made it so many more within the government had access to information regarding Russia than was necessary, and leaked this to the press, in an effort to imply that the information implicated Trump in wrongdoing, while in reality, there was never any evidence that the Trump administration colluded with Russia.

She also said that she could beat Trump "again", among other things that showed she did not accept the results of the election.

The Obama administration took many steps to prevent Trump from implementing his policies (exercise his power, as vested by the Constitution). For example, Sally Yates (an Obama administration holdover) refused to defend Trump's travel ban that was later found constitutional by the Supreme Court.

If you are a real man and a just player, no matter the results you should accept the outcome, only real losers whine about losing. I do not want Trump to win the election to be honest, the fact that most of his policies protect his companies instead of the people is enough evidence that he does not care about the general populace. Isn't that also the problem back then when Trump was the winner, that somehow Russia or someone rigged the election but he didn't admit that because he won, now that he lost, suddenly Biden cheated. I do not know much about Biden but these day, all who sit on the office are clowns controlled by corporations through lobbying.

I think a lot of people are assuming that because Trump uses the office of the president to pressure intelligence and law enforcement agencies into investigating specific people and businesses that this is normal.  It's not.  Like presidents before him, Obama was not involved in FBI decisions to investigate or charge Americans.

You should read the Mueller report.

How about this, for example: A Russian intelligence officers flying into NYC from Russia for secret a meeting with Trumps campaign director (who's last job was getting Putins hand picked candidate elected as president of Ukraine) where internal campaign data was shared, and the idea to allow Russia to annex more of Ukraine was discussed.


She also received almost 3 million votes than Trump and was responding to a Trump tweet saying something like "I think crooked Hillary should run again so I can have another easy huge win".

That's not true at all.  I suggest reading the EO from Jan 2016 and comparing it to the Muslim Ban 3.0 that the Supreme Court allowed almost 2 years later.

Also, her refusing to enforce it was not a step to prevent Trump from implementing it.  It was her way of quitting in protest - by publicly announcing she would not follow Trumps orders, she knowingly forced Trump to instantly fire her.




In the end, even if all of these points were valid, and most of them are not, none of them would justify the way Trump has responded to losing the election.

Absolutely DON'T say that Trump won the election. Why not? Then people would become complacent, thinking that Trump won, and they wouldn't be examining the election fraud that is being used to take their freedom away.

8)

Yeah to be honest I REALLY do not agree with the Trump administration / campaigns response to losing the election. They’re blocking access to briefings, not allowing their people to come in and see what’s going on. It’s going to make it a lot harder for the incoming administration to respond to all of the problems that are going on right now — and we all know the Elephant in the room is Covid.

Here is blocking at the Pentagon - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/pentagon-biden-transition-delays-b1781355.html

Here is obstruction at the OMB - https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/30/abraham-blasts-trump-omb-pentagon-452354

So yeah, totally can’t justify the way Trump is and has been responding to losing the election.

^^^ In war - this is a war with China - you don't show the enemy your attack strategies.

8)

Patrick Byrne has really stepped up his efforts to cast doubt on the election results.  His twitter has been overflowing with fun reads.

https://twitter.com/PatrickByrne

His recent interview with Roseann Barr was good for some entertainment as well.  Doesn't matter if you're a believer in what they're saying or not, those two are enjoyable to watch interact with each other.  You can check it out here: https://youtu.be/v50vbCfiRt0

This is the first time it happen I thought it only happen to other countries like mine where losing candidate will never admit that he losses the election but only got cheated, I never thought that a losing US presidential candidate  will do such thing, this is a bad precedent, they are the leading democratic country and their leaders should know when is the right time to admit his loss, Trump ruin so many things.

just because the corrupt media cartel tries to coup biden into power, doesn't mean its legit, the corrupt media is the problem

the future of american binary politics is:

you are either siding with trump and the republicans or with the racist and marxist democrats

All of the twitter accounts have been overflowing with fun reads. One of Trumps lawyers — Lin Wood — has been going on a tear on twitter about everything and nothing at the sametime.

He’s been talking about election fraud, Chief Justice John Roberts and his alleged (from Lin Wood) pedophilia, Jeffrey Epstein, and so on and so forth.

Guy is pretty much talking about everything and nothing while making outlandish claims and providing zero evidence.

So I spent like 2 hours reading some of his Blogs and most of Deep Capture (https://www.deepcapture.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/deepcapture-the-story-v1.pdf) last night.  Byrne knows how to tell a story. And I think he's probably just insane and got realllly lucky but maybe not.

He does seem like he could be legitimately insane at times, but he also seems like a crazy genius and fun person to be around.  I've actually said a few times that if I could sit down with one person from the crypto world, it would be Patrick Byrne.  His Maria Butina & Brian Williams experiences alone would be such amazing stories to hear. 

For fun, here he is memorizing a deck of cards: https://rumble.com/vc7qgv-patrick-byrne-memorizing-a-deck-of-cards.html

Why does it take government people so long to realize that the government people they trust are not to be trusted without finding out if they are trustworthy first?

If there are allegations of fraud in elections, why would any government election person try to stop investigations into it? Oh yes. If he is part of the fraud... right?

Arizona.


Maricopa County Treasurer Resigns in Disgust, Joins Recall Effort Against Officials... (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/297385-2021-01-04-maricopa-county-treasurer-resigns-in-disgust-joins-recall-effort-against.htm)




8)

I feel like recent events prove my point a little bit. It’s an absolute shame what happened as a result of the mistrust in our election system. We should be focusing on fixing the system though, and not lashing out. I’m glad that Trump finally seems to be on board with giving up his pursuit of a second term.

- If Trump won the results should be overturned and he should be made president.



Nobody needs to be embarrassed unless he/she/it openly defended the fraud.

If there is any wrong doing, then it needs to be fixed. Otherwise nobody will believe in democracy ever again.

*Just like you assuming that the election was rigged.

Let’s say Trump did win the election...


Trump did win the election!!!

There. Said it.


8)

If Trump thinks he won, then he should provide evidence to support his claim, which should then be considered in court, and everyone should then abide by the court's verdict. If anyone disagrees with the verdict they can then supply evidence to support their claim, and take it back to court.

That's how it should work and how it has to work to ensure transparency and accuracy. All hypothetical really though as Trump hasn't supplied any evidence. Unless he can come up with something quickly, then it's already settled. Tantrums and imploring people to storm the Capitol don't really support his cause. Evidence or at the very least reasonable doubt are what we need.

The Affidavit from Italy that was handed to members of congress during the week
https://i.ibb.co/p0HtkTX/Untitled-3.jpg (https://ibb.co/ngXHKyk)

So are you done with the whole "Dominion/Venezuela switched Trump votes" conspiracy theory?

Now they're trying to impeach him while he's walking out the door...  This is the kind of immature back and forth pathetic bullshit I never thought I'd see in the US government.  Trump is an asshole, sure.  This petty move from the democrats is only adding fuel to the fire that is burning America's reputation.  Pelosi is a child with a grudge, and it's so sad to see this level of maturity from our elected leaders.  They're politicians for god's sake.  All they have to do is not act like children, but here we are.  You could expect this type of pettiness from business leaders, but politicians?  Pathetic. 

I think it sets a pretty good precedent: If a president tries to stay in power after losing the election by organizing an event that ends up turning into basically a terrorist attack intended to keep him in power, on the capital, while congress is in session...that's an impeachable offense, and you shouldn't expect a free pass on impeachable offenses just because you're already on the way out the door.

Take Trump out of the equation and imagine it's AOC or Biden.  I don't think you're calling it petty then.

Everybody starts to see their real intentions...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EreGVpJXIAAvBXy?format=jpg&name=small
https://twitter.com/RonPaul/status/1348694943905308672

...even their own supporters.

What could Ron Paul possibly have said to get himself banned from Facebook for fucks sake?

It does have a purpose, though. It prevents him running again in 2024.
Still, not sure it's a good idea, or what effect this will have on an already riled-up Trump fanbase. Actually, forget that, I am sure of the effect. Expect a gun-totin' outing to the Capitol.

It’s petty no matter who is doing it. They’re making America look worse to try and get one last dig in despite the fact that it’s a meaningless gesture meant to embarrass someone and hurt their legacy. It’s shameful. Not saying Trump wouldn’t do the same nonsense if their positions were reversed, the dude is an asshole. It just goes to show how worthless these so called leaders are. I’ve long thought you’d get a better president randomly choosing someone out of the phone book. Maybe instead of focusing on trying to make America look worse, they could do their jobs and try to save the massive demolition of small businesses they’ve created by having absolutely no bravery in times of supposed crisis.

Whether they impeach Trump, invoke the 25th, or do nothing, the way congress responds to this attack is not meaningless.  

It's also not an either or situation where the decision is either 'Impeach Trump' or 'save the massive demolition of small businesses they’ve created by having absolutely no bravery in times of supposed crisis' and they obviously aren't focusing on 'trying to make America look worse'.  It seems like you are letting your spite for democrats/loyalty to Trump prevent you from looking at the situation objectively.  It's not just Democrats calling for Trump to be ousted immediately.  I think the best case scenario right now for the country as a whole would be Trump resigning.

There are some reports saying that Democrats might not send the impeachment 'papers' to the Senate until months after Biden is in office. I think this could result in a conviction as Trump will have much less influence on Republicans at that time, and Trump is sure to do more stupid things between now and then. Obviously impeaching Trump is only going to further divide the country, and isn't something that should be done.

Still a firm believer that D's will let up and put the theatrics to rest once they realize they have nothing to gain from Trump after he leaves office. They are not above beating a dead horse, but people forget real quick.

Yes, this is the only reason to impeach him.  They are doing it out of fear that he would win an honest election in 2024.  Decisions based on fear are almost never the right one to make.  I'll say it again, America used to be the home of the brave, but we're being run by cowardly politicians now and it is being reflected in our daily lives.  Not just towards Trump, but towards everything.

If the military believes Trump's election fraud proof - which they should, since the 305th Military Intelligence Battalion was part of the military that was obtaining the proof - the Dems and Reps who are part of the China coup to take over the USA economically rather than by formal war, should be very afraid. The Commies in our government need to be expelled. It might take Trump activating the State militias with US military backing.


Sources FRACTURE on outcome: Is Trump winning at unconventional warfare? (https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-01-12-situation-update-jan-12-2021-trump-unconventional-warfare.html#)




8)

Democrats are pursuing impeachment at a time when Trump has no real power. The only thing Trump can do today is sign executive orders that will be quickly reversed upon Biden taking office.

McConnel is appearently (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconnell-believes-trump-committed-impeachable-offenses-supports-democrats-impeachment-efforts-report) in favor of impeachment because of how Trump acted after the election, and how Trump basically cost Republicans the Senate, possibly permanently. Unless Trump has zero Senate votes, the Senate cannot start an impeachment trial until January 19, but McConnel could schedule a vote immediately on the 19th, or on the 20th in the morning if he has the votes. This would prevent Trump from running in 2024, although it would not prevent him from causing trouble during the primaries and in the election, but without his social media platforms, he would have limited ability to communicate with his supporters.

^^^ The only other thing Trump can do, has to do with if there truly was election fraud. But there may not have been any election fraud even though there was.

What do I mean? The people who set the election laws in place, might have allowed election law fraud. If fraud is legally allowed, it isn't really fraud any longer, and fraud is taken out of the question.

However, if this is not the case - that election fraud is allowed by election law - then the whole thing depends on whether or not Trump can prove election fraud. And being able to prove it opens up a whole gigantic batch of disruption throughout the whole country.

What do I mean? I mean that Trump might have overplayed his hand by putting into place the things that prove election fraud. How might this work? Consider Facebook. If Zuck and Facebook used forms of election fraud to overcome Trump, then election fraud might really be included with everybody who uses a Facebook account.

To say it plainly, somewhere along the line, the whole USA government has been lost to social communications relationships through the big social communications companies. The people of the USA are divided, but not people against people. Rather, they are divided each Facebook user with himself.

Consider a Facebook user who wants Trump to be President. But by his or her ties to Facebook, he/she also wants Facebook "government." But you can't easily have both, because their "platforms" are in opposition to each other. Which do they really want? Which are they really going to get?

Facebook and other social media support China. And China supports them. But Trump wants to make America great by taxing Chinese imports enough that jobs come back to America. China and Facebook won't accept or allow this if they can thwart it. But what will the individual people of America do? Even the people who want Trump to remain as President?

Will people be ready to give up their social media now that they see that it is a method that Communism is using to bring America into slavery? and that they can't have both, Trump as their leader, and social media as their leader?



Where do you stand? Do you stand for Trump and truth and freedom? Or do you stand for your social media that will make slaves of us all if we remain in it?


8)

Looks like the majority on the forum agree that Biden win. The same is likely the case for the average American. Sure there are some extremist in any country but they make up only a small fraction. In my opinion it would be best to just move on. Being president for 4 years is already a great achievement. Let's see how Biden will fix all this corona mess.

Election by County area size
https://i.ibb.co/tLz2RX9/Untitled.png (https://ibb.co/SfcmSrz)

Lets all fix all this corona mess
https://youtu.be/hIb58gNw0kw
Tedros, please stop I have stitches a real health issue
(If you need a stale party going just download)

Absolutely incredible the president basically just tried to overthrow the government and you guys are doing mental gymnastics to defend him, crying about him getting impeached for it and shrugging off the storming of the Capital.


Fear is a natural survival instinct, if you almost never made decisions based on fear you'd be dead by now.  

I think where you were going with this was the "They're afraid to face him in an election, so they want to impeach him instead", which was a logical argument during the last impeachment, but obviously not this one.

I don't think Trump is hoping Biden has a successful first year as president?  There's plenty of things Trump could do besides EOs to make Biden (and the country), more likely to fail.  He's got the pardon power, control of the military, all the agencies who report to him, etc.

What is he willing to do? I don't know.  But there is a decent chance he squeezes in a few more unbelievably stupid scandals that does serious damage to the Nation in the next week or so, especially if he feels cornered.

I thought you were just a christian troll, but I guess it makes sense you are a white supremacist as well.  :/  Remember:  God created white men and women.   The only reason "colored" people exist is because their ancestors came from the three sons of Adam and Eve, really fucking up their DNA.

 ::)

I have a serious question.  Trump has stated he will not attend the inauguration.  Is the US capitol just preparing for riots, or are they also prepared for organized militia with artillery or even primitive missiles?  They don't need to occupy - just kill.

Canada is worried.  This focus on domestic enemies also weakens our observation of foreign enemies.

Pretty sure they’re prepared for some degree of riots, the National Guard is already in the Capitol and extensive new security measures have been put in place to ensure that everyone over there is safe and we do not have a repeat of what happened last week.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/dc-inauguration-latest-national-special-security-event-begins-white-house-perimeter-planned/2540370/

FBI is saying (in the above article) that they’re expecting violence in the days leading up to and on the day of the inauguration of Biden. Though we’re expecting more and more police / military presence to ensure that everyone is as safe as possible.

Trumps tone in the recent days is probably helping some of his supporters, as he is calling for a peaceful transition of power at this point. Though I’m not sure what the crazy conspiracy theory supporters think.

After he saw that they'd let a few nuts and reporters run rampant with government property for a photo opp and to play the victim, I think Trump realizes he has to be overly cautious.  Imagine thinking America could be "invaded" by the person posing for pictures with Nancy's podium.  The lives lost that day are on the hands of whoever decided to let a group of old men and reporters storm government buildings for media attention.  There's no way any of that happens without a decision from someone tasked for security letting it happen.

Nancy in tears now
https://web.archive.org/web/20210116055041/https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/pelosi-tears-capitol-congress-prosecute-b1788043.html

Biden will never be President, he will be to chicken to enter has already canceled rehearsal.
He is known to be a sellout, he will do it again and again

Notice at the site, how Pelosi continues to shoot firebrands against Trump supporters, even as she is taken down.

8)

Accepting the Biden presidency means embracing a tinpot dictatorship in which sham elections are enforced through massive censorship, and by criminalizing anyone who objects as a “domestic terrorist” who is “inciting insurrection”.

Protip:  When examining the legitimacy of an election is declared to be “insurrection”, “sedition”, and otherwise “criminal”, you are living under a thinly-veiled dictatorship, period.  Whereas what Big Tech, the mass-media, and Democrat politicians now declare, they definitely desire to enforce with actual criminal laws if and when they can.

Anyone who cannot see that is foolish, corrupt, and/or blinded by hatred of Trump.

It is so easy for you Americans to see when a corrupt régime in another country rams through a sham election and represses the opposition; indeed, you Americans tend to make a stock accusation of sham elections against any régime that you dislike, even when there is no evidence of that.  Look in the mirror.  The 2020 U.S. presidential election is a farce!

---

For the record:  I have hereto been circumspect in what I think about the legitimacy of the election, for two reasons.

The minor reason was that I had wagered on the election, and I did not want to present any false impression of trying to wiggle out of my obligations.  Since I paid the bet according to its terms (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5284654.msg56053574#msg56053574) as soon as Trump declared his support for a transition to Biden, that is no longer a concern.  Regardless of whether Trump legitimately won the election, I legitimately lost my charity bet with theymos in the exact moment that Trump publicly, unequivocally accepted a Biden presidency (as he did in practice, if not in principle).  And I am pleased to have supported the NCLA.

The major reason was that I lacked sufficient information to form a strong opinion.  It is an open secret that American elections are oftentimes wracked with ballot fraud, and that the Democrats are the ones who do that.  Hereby, there was significant evidence of fraud in several key states.  But that does not automatically equate to a conclusion that Trump really won.  I was particularly skeptical of Trump’s claim that he won a “landslide” victory.

Before the election, my expectation was that the results rested on a knife’s edge.  A small to moderate amount of ballot fraud could simply mean that Trump should have suffered a narrow E.C. loss, instead of a big E.C. loss.  For example, suppose that he really won in Pennsylvania and Georgia, but not in any of the other states that had plausible objections.  That would mean that, barring faithless electors, he would have lost in the E.C. by 270–268, instead of by 306–232.

On the other hand, suppose that he really won in Pennsylvania, Arizona, and Wisconsin, but not in the other contested states.  That would give him a relatively narrow 273–265 victory, not a “landslide” victory (at least insofar as the E.C. is concerned).  And if he had won in Pennsylvania, Arizona, and Nevada (but not the others), then the result would have been a 269–269 E.C. tie with nobody reaching 270, thus invoking the first Twelfth Amendment contingent election since 1825.

(The foregoing examples are picked to give hypothetical close-call numbers, not as a statement about the strength or weakness of the evidence of fraud in any particular state.  —Not by inclusion, and not by omission.)

By its nature, ballot fraud is difficult to quantify reliably—even for someone in an authoritative position to investigate, which I myself am not.  Indeed, in the past few months’ atmosphere, it has been altogether difficult for me to find information that meets my own standards for reliability.  The only conclusion that I could reach was:  This looks bad.  Biden’s legitimacy is weak and questionable, at best.  But I do not know if Trump really should have won.

Whereas now, the Left’s repressive tactics and wild false accusations suffice for me to presume conclusively that the election was stolen, and they know it.  Only corrupt régimes running sham elections use such means to force people to accept the results, against massive opposition and significant evidence that something is really wrong.  They doth protest too much, methinks!

For example, see the aptly-named Fetterman ordering people to shut up and accept their fetters (https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1350116536581808128):

https://i.imgur.com/KpGLA2O.png (https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1350116536581808128)

^^^ Translation:  “Pennsylvania was stolen, and I need to cover it up by repudiating the whole concept of the freedom of speech.”  Examples of this abound...

Trump be sworn in March 4 as the 19th President (The act of 1871 (https://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/the-act-of-1871-the-2-constitutions-corporate-america/276232))
https://youtu.be/0TVoLVrDIH8

This alternate Universe is really starting to take shape.  Just pretending reality isn't happening because you didn't want something to happen that did seems like a great way to live a healthy happy life.

When he's sworn in on March 4 as 19th president, will he still be 45th president in this Universe?  Or are we abandoning the "Biden is too chicken to ever be President" theory.

Excellent. Now all we need is a time machine to send all nutjobs back to 1871 along with Trump.

It is funny how my post reasonably pointing out what can be readily seen (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5305390.msg56115935#msg56115935) by anyone with two eyes and a brain—i.e. that the U.S. is behaving as stereotypical corrupt régime that rams through sham elections by brute force and massive censorship—was promptly followed by readily identifiable disinformation about the City of London.


I have a better theory for restoring lawful government in America.  It doesn’t even involve any made-up non-facts.

Strictly as a legal matter, the 1783 Treaty of Paris, which ended the American Revolutionary War and recognized the sovereignty of the several colonies as states, is totally invalid.  Null and void!  Void ab initio!  My theory is too complicated to explain in the margin of this forum post; but I assure you, it is absolutely correct as a matter of law.

Therefore, the U.S. government does not exist.  The American colonies are in a state of insurrection, which must be stopped to restore law and order.  For as we all know, political violence is always wrong.  We need to stop an attempted overthrow of lawful government by domestic terrorists in these colonies!

I am grateful to the leftists for symbolically starting this process, with their attacks on the statutes of violent domestic terrorists and insurrectionists such as Thomas Jefferson.  Although their intents were wrong, they accidentally got this one right.  Jefferson was an insurrectionist!  Insurgent!  Terrrrrrorrrrist!  Do you hear me!?  A domestic terrorist insurrectionist violently overthrowing the government!!!11

I mean, a real one.  Not a hopeless little rioter who achieved nothing and/or promptly wound up in jail.

Unfortunately for the same leftists (and for most other so-called “Americans”), each and every resident of the American colonies not descended from a legal British subject is an illegal alien.  As an immigration control measure, all illegal aliens shall be promptly deported from British colonial territory, when lawful government is restored to a sovereign properly established by divine right and ancient traditions.

Now, some may object that no matter how technically correct my legal theory may be, it is outside the realm of practical politics.  To them, I say:  Pffft.  Who cares?  I can still publish videos about it, just to hear myself talk.

---

Having enjoyed a moment of levity, let us now return to the grave issue at hand:

Only a régime running a sham election enforces its results by suppressing scrutiny and censoring objections.

It would be more honest if the U.S. were to dispense with the façade, and simply admit that it is a dictatorship.  Dissidents would then not be encouraged to mark themselves out with false notions of whatever “rights” they may imagine they still have—especially the “freedom of speech”.  The sooner that American dissidents realize the severity of the impending situation, the better for them and for their safety.

I can no longer imagine that.
He should probably resign himself to never being allowed to become president again...

https://i.ibb.co/Bs32MQQ/4u8bnt.jpg

I don’t think that is up to him anymore anyway. If Father Time isn’t enough to hold him back in another 4 years, and he hasn’t been destroyed personally by then as a result of all this, his impeachment trial should seal the deal. I’d feel fairly safe betting Donald Trump won’t be President of the United States ever again.