Bitcoin Forum

I've just launched the new design of the website which now features an automated system.

https://www.bitcoin2cash.com/

You can open an account by logging in with any valid OpenID login. Once logged in, you can fund your account with BTC by sending to an address tied with your account or with USD by sending cash by mail (no change!) to our business address. Once your account is funded, you can sell BTC by setting an ask amount/price or you can buy BTC by setting a bid amount/price. Trades are performed every 5 minutes. The only fee is a shipping and handling fee when you request a cash withdrawal, which is currently $5.00 but will change as soon I get things running smoothly and figure out a fair price.

So, to start things rolling and generate some interest, I've just opened my own account, deposited 10 BTC and set an ask price for $0.10 for them. The first person that gets a dollar in their account and bids on them will win. On April 15th, I will do the same thing with 100 BTC at a price of $0.20. On May 1st, I will do this yet again with 1000 BTC at a price of $0.40. (assuming BTC prices don't drop drastically, in which case I will lower the price so that it is still far below market price)

The site is brand new and although I've tested it extensively, it's possible that some bugs remain so please be advised.

Also, even if you aren't interested in cash trades, you can still open an account and use it as a safety deposit box for your BTC without worrying about running the Bitcoin client yourself. You also get to take advantage of our automated encrypted backups that are stored on redundant cloud storage services.

Thanks for reading!

Why OpenID?

It makes things easier for me. I don't need to worry about managing passwords, verifying email addresses, recovering lost passwords, etc.

Nice design and great work sir.

Looks promising! ^^

It turned me off.

I'm not saying OpenID is bad. I'm saying I don't know anything about it, and couldn't be bothered learning, so I didn't sign up to your site.

Just letting you know because others might feel the same way.

The advantage of OpenID is that you may not even need to sign up: it's entirely possible you already have an OpenID account (possibly without realising it). If you have, say, MySpace account, WordPress blog, Steam account, TypePad blog or Launchpad account (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Openid#OpenID_Providers) then you'll already have an OpenID account. Check the list: there are lots more OpenID providers I've not listed, and the Wikipedia list is likely incomplete.

Ah okay, thanks.

I don't.

I believe at this point any serious bitcoin user will not be afraid of new technologies. And only people who are not going to do real business will not use OpenID.. So bitcoin2cash did not loose anything =))

I agree. In the past 2 weeks, I have discovered and studied non-stop bitcoin, tor, truecrypt, gpg, linux, json.

My brain would explode if I seriously added something else at this point.


Can't comment on that as I don't know enough about it yet.

Has anyone funded a bitcoin2cash account by mail yet?

I'd love to hear any feedback (positive or negative) with the site, as well as any feedback on sending cash through the mail. Is this generally considerd safe? What are the best practices?

I have done this, do I win?

I haven't received any funds since the new website was launched but back before it was automated the largest transaction was $1,000 in $100 bills. It's best to use security envelopes with the cash wrapped in something like magazine pages. Also, please don't put our business name on the envelopes.

(adding thread to my watchlist)

Google accounts are also OpenID compatible.

I'll just put this here.

https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5386.msg80015#msg80015 (https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5386.msg80015#msg80015)

If I knew how to move our conversation to this thread, I would.

Even better, why not send me your concerns for my safety in private? What's your desire to criticize me publicly if you're not trying to shake confidence in my business? I just find it odd that the only other cash-by-mail Bitcoin exchange has such a keen interest in my safety while nobody else does. Maybe it's because you have a unique perspective but by making it public, it looks more like professional jealousy.

Your safety is completely relevant to the community. Are there contingencies in place should you be imprisoned/killed?

That's not concern for my safety. That's concern for the safety of your assets.

It's also a valid question. TheMadHatter is getting personal, telling me not to keep drugs in my house, calling me an amateur, telling me that my business is doomed to fail because of fake complaints, etc. That kind of stuff has no business being said publicly if done out of genuine concern. Otherwise, it's just pot-stirring. I can take criticism but I take issue with TheMadHatter trying to act as if he isn't motivated by his own personal agenda.

But to answer your question, yes. If I'm imprisoned/killed, my partner will take over. If we are both are out of commission then my lawyers will be able to shut down the business and settle all current debts.

I am getting an "Invalid withdrawl amount!" error when I try to withdraw BTC

It should be fixed now.

That's not it at all. I'm warning you in public not only for your sake, but for the sake of others who might be thinking about following in your/my footsteps.


Could it be possible that I understand this type of business?


When you realize how little profit there is in exchanging, you'll see that my concerns for your safety are genuine.

Profit isn't the only possible motive. Pride, arrogance, pedantry, etc are just as motivating. Anyways, if you really want to know how you can help me then you can stop trolling my threads. If you want to warn people of something, start your own thread and leave my business out of it.

You are taking everything I wrote out of context. I suggest that you re-read what I wrote without getting angry this time.

I understand your anger towards me for pointing out these issues with your service. I also understand that you just got your site off of the ground and that you probably put a lot of effort into it. It's not my intention to undermine anything you have accomplished. I thought I had made that clear in my first post. I'll reiterate it here again. :)


Lol! Okay pal. Let's just pretend that you live in a utopia and that nothing will go wrong then.

I'm done trying to help you.

Good. I don't need "help" that's dripping with sarcasm and presumptions.

I don't mean to troll or linger on a subject from which there is very little gain to be taken, but from my many months on bitcoin and this forum specifically I feel I need to say "chill out", bitcoin2cash...

Maybe I'm just biased, as I have had conversations with madhatter in the past regarding myself taking the European front on the cash in the mail exchange he runs and I generally know madhatter is very trustworthy and fair, but reading through this thread and the other one he points to gives me absolutely no indication that he's trolling, trying to scare you or your clients off or anything of the kind. And I for one appreciate his doing this in the open, as I am always considering my next bitcoin related move and all experiences, good and bad, are very helpful.

I don't want to be rude, really, please don't read too much into this, but you start to sound slightly like bobR (in a VERY mild way, it's just the direction of the thought not the position itself), by taking every attempt to "make good" as another attack, and in fact crying wolf too easily.

Just saying, really. I have nothing more to offer other than my trust in madhatter and the knowledge that his experience should not be frowned upon, imho.

I've been a member of these forums slightly longer than you have so I'm more than aware of people's reputations. The fact that he's a competitor and being so critical was the first red flag. The second red flag was coming up with ridiculous theories like, "The real problem is when you have established/trusted members of the forum [falsely] complaining, your reputation is toast." which makes absolutely no sense and seems like a very trollish thing to say. First of all, why would trusted forum members do that? Conspiracy? Second of all, that applies to any business. A bunch of trusted members could start claiming that Mt Gox ripped them off. It's completely irrelevant and doesn't belong in a serious discussion. He's either making a fallacious argument because he doesn't know any better or because he's trolling. I'm not frowning on his experience. I'm frowning on his conduct, making inappropriate comments like above, being condescending and sarcastic when I've been nothing but straightforward. So, yes, if you can't see that then you may be biased. If he had contacted me in private first or made a thread without criticizing me personally (the amateur remark definitely crosses the line) then I would have nothing but thanks for him. I'm sorry if I take my reputation a little too seriously but that's all I have to go on and when people start making long rants that could be interpreted poorly by potential clients, I feel the need to respond.

That is a deliberate misquote. It is also taken out of context; quite possibly to justify your anger towards me.

In that statement I was referring to *real* complaints of lost cashmails from your premises by trusted members on the forum. You somehow munged two of my points together.


Again, you misunderstood. Read my post again.

That's demonstrably false. Here's the exact quote:


The quote you were responding to begins with "as for fake complaints" and you used the phrase "joe job", so how can you claim that you were talking about *real* complaints?

Wow, what a "nit pick". Those two sentences are two different points. Did you want me to insert some white space there? A few carriage returns perhaps?

In the first sentence I was remarking about how easy a deliberate "joe job" would be to detect. In the second sentence I was referring to *real* complaints, not fake ones.

I don't believe that for a single minute. The second sentence is a direct continuation of the first. You know it, I know it and anyone that can read English knows it.

Are you a linguist? An English teacher, perhaps?

Why would I infer that trusted/established members of the forum would collude to "joe job" you? That doesn't make any sense at all. Most of the trusted members of the forum are brilliant and honest people who wouldn't do that. Everyone  knows that.

You are "nit picking" over my posts now because you want a reason to be angry with me. Know what? You don't need a reason. Just be angry. I'm fine with that.

Why do trolls say half of the idiotic things they say?

You said that people with 5 posts would be an obvious "joe job" but then went on to say that "the real problem" is if I have "established/trusted members of the forum complaining". So, even if I give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't mean what you said, it's still hardly a nitpick because those sentences look pretty darn related. It was at the very least extremely poor wording on your part.

Besides, even if I let you off the hook, you still lost that point of the argument since you're now forced to admit that the only fake complaints will be from obvious trolls. Either way, you lose. *shrug*

Well, if that's how you have to justify this in your mind to stop this pointless argument and move on, so be it.

Hmmm, I had promised myself I would not allow myself to give in to my arguing needs, but there you go, I can't help myself...

I'm not a native english speaker, although my work environment is 100% english, and has been for more more than a decade. What that is worth, I don't know, but 2 things got stuck in my (digital) throat and I need to get that out:

- I can't see the attitude issues bitcoin2cash is complaining about. Re-reading the message from madhatter does in fact provide all the sentences you question, but the meaning I attach to them is of a pure attempt to help. Maybe with a touch of arrogance, sure, but I believe one is entitled to that when there's a good deal of previous experience, which madhatter has.

- bitcoin2cash; you say you take your reputation in a very serious manner, but from where I stand, nitpicking on the exact wording of a forum post by anyone, let alone a generally trusted member, will not net you much positive karma. That, and the fact you refuse to give in on the continuous attempt to raise a white flag from said member, by doing that puzzling thing of dismissing long rants by engaging is multiple dissecting quotes. Honestly, that makes me feel that if I do business with you and we have a disagreement you will simply refuse to listen to my side of the story, dismissing me with a set of handy adjectives. Not cool.

But who am I to keep getting between you 2? I'll just go back to the stands and enjoy the show... you can get your gloves back on now, gentlemen! ;)

I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to be trusted as a business. If you won't do business with me because you don't like me personally, that's a bit silly but it's your prerogative.


Oh, I didn't say I'm letting you off the hook. I just pointed out that you're not really gaining anything by weaseling out of your statement. There's no way that your statement makes sense except interpreted in one way. Nobody is keeping you here though. You're free to leave if you don't want to debate anymore.

Your "hook" is just a way for you to retain your anger towards me. I care not.

Debate? There isn't anything left to say.

Fair enough, but I would argue that your understanding of what I meant is a bit flawed, though I may have worded it badly. I won't do business with you because I don't trust your reasoning when a disagreement arises. And in business, like in marriage, you get to know the other half not when you tie the knot but when things go sideways...

But don't take this personally, I am not in the market for your services at the moment. If I ever am, these threads, and more specifically your position towards the potential flaws pointed out will help me make my mind you on wether to trust your business (not you personally, of course) or not. What you are doing, business wise, is great for the bitcoin ecosystem at any rate, so kudos to you for that! The more the merrier.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. However, I think that if we took a vote from people that weren't biased, they would agree with me. This is also not representative of my business disputes. He's not a client and there has been no business done here. That's hardly a fair metric. It would be wiser to see how my actual business dealings turn out. It's hard to see how a dispute like this could arise. Things are a lot more clear cut with the actual business. Either you sent money or you didn't. Either I sent Bitcoins or I didn't. Where's the need for reasoning?


I'm not angry at you. I don't trust you. I think you're intellectually dishonest. Other than that, I feel nothing. I guess it's easier for you to convince yourself that I'm just a "hater" rather than someone that sees through your bullshit. The worst part is that even if you weren't really making that claim, you won't admit that at the very least it was poor wording. No, I'm just a nitpicker because I want to be angry. That's logical.

reading the other thread and this one, I can see bitcoin2cash's point of view.  bitcoin2cash is really trying to open a legal business.  for example his business has an LLC to protect his personal wealth.  madhatter prefers to work in the dark away from legal or govt intervention.  bitcoin2cash already says he doesnt need advice but the madhatter just keeps adding input.

I'd like 2 c bitcoin2cash do what madhatter cannot be done.  it would be a leap in bitoin adoption

++ They have a disagreement, I say lets let them run.

No more bickering, I'm interested.

An LLC will not protect your personal wealth from a criminal charge/investigation. Ask any lawyer.

I don't operate 'in the dark'. I operate as a full liability man, standing on my own two feet. I, personally, have no use for "limited liability".

Also, I thought Bitcoin was about freedom. It doesn't make sense to me to intentionally enter unnecessary contracts with the state, tacit or intentional.

Who said that it would? Nobody. That's a straw man argument. It protects my personal assets from civil lawsuits and business debts, which is the point. Also, before you ask "what possible lawsuits or debts", that's the point. I don't know. If I could predict the future then I wouldn't need to worry.


Then you have no business giving anyone advice on how to run a business. That's an unnecessary risk which is not the kind of thing an entrepreneur should be doing.


It's only unnecessary if I don't mind putting my personal assets at risk for lawsuits or debts, which I do.

guys... please, stop!

you're both very serious and professional... everyone got that!

No need to "defend your honor" through more pages and threads

Lol.

Why do I get "insuficient funds" when trying to bid with my 5 dollars?

It should mean that you tried to place a bid that would require more than 5 dollars. What was the price and amount you used?

> the only other cash-by-mail Bitcoin exchange

Oh, contraire!

There are several others.

Nanaimo Gold is the oldest and largest exchanger of bitcoin. I likely do more cash by mail than all the other services combined. My daily volume often exceeds that of Mt Gox and I am only one trader. I have been backing up bitcoin with gold, silver and digital currency since day one. I have been involved for almost a decade in the design of this P2P money. Not for the sake of making exchanges, but for the sake of the commerce it allows.

OK, that being said, Madhatter is right on all accounts. I can tell you from a vast experience that you can't mail cash to strangers. If they are not outright lying about not receiving their mail, they are outsmarting themselves by having you send to the empty house next door where the crackheads are currently squatting or they are failing to provide you with a deliverable address because they are too stupid to address a snail mail.

Everyone is responsible for what he mails. You are never going to qualify your cash recipients as honest, and you are never going to have force of law in international trades. When your cash is lost to thieves, as it certainly will be on occasion, you will be obligated to replace it. Everyone is responsible for what he sends. Nobody is responsible for what he fails to receive.

Don't forget that the people of the USA are minor players in this trade. If you restrict yourself to just that one country, you will be barring more than 70% of your potential business. If not, most of your cash mailings will have to cross customs and you will have to know what mail ports are not safe, in what countries. This knowledge is hard won and took me many years.

Don't expect the police to help you combat fraud. They are players for the bankster owned government that already hates you as a unique terrorist.

I have been involved in cash trade for gold by mail for 30 years, since before many readers of this forum were even born. I know all the tricks and all the pitfalls.

Listen to the Madhatter. He is correct.

If you are not too arrogant to consider a partial solution to the problem; you can safely deposit cash to your recipient's bank accounts as long as they are using a national bank that you can reach a branch of. That will cover about 8% of your potential trades. If you can prove to be a team player, which I currently doubt, I can send you to make lots of deposits on behalf of Nanaimo Gold as I only have one US bank account (BoA).

Your idea that any of us are competing suggests to me that you don't know what you are doing. There is too little profit to be made here. The exchangers are vital to the health of the bitcoin economy. The more the merrier. We need MANY more services like your's and Madhatter's if the prices are to ever stabilize enough for merchants to adopt bitcoin. Just don't expect to make much money from doing exchange. The real money is in the commerce that bitcoin will eventually facilitate.

I expect I know how you will react to this sage advice, so really, this post is for the benefit of those not still enduring the teenaged know-it-all years. You can't trust people unless you know them. You can't have anonymous trade if you have to qualify customers for credit.

And who the hell is going to pay you $15 just to mail a letter? I only charge $7 to stand through a bank queue! All you are going to attract with that pricing scheme are scammers who will try to get you to pay twice.

I predict your service will fail and be gone within 45 days. Anyone care to bet against me?

Flame me all you like. I won't bother to respond. You can have the last word on this thread. Anyone who want's my attention can reach me through the NG website. Reading this forum can harm one's intelligence, so I tend to ignore it.

When you request a withdrawal you have to agree to terms of service that says exactly that. We aren't responsible for lost mail.


I've already addressed this. Profit is only one possible motive. The satisfaction of acting superior is another possibility. It's a fallacious reasoning to assume that just because there are little profits to be made that people won't be vindictive for other reasons. Some people just like acting like they are king of the hill.


That price will definitely go down. I figured that it would be better for me to charge more rather than less until I figure out exactly how much gas/time/effort etc is going to be required to keep this up. It's also to cover possible international mail costs too. Eventually I'll have separate rates depending on the country.

Thanks for your comments.

I'll bet you 5000 BTC. Care to put your money where your mouth is?

Oh... he left. Well, if anyone would care to pass the message along to him. I'd like to make some easy money.

Generally, horses are not permitted to bet on their own races. There is nothing to stop you from pretending to remain in business past 45 days just to win the bet.

The offer to bet must be limited to those not involved with your enterprise.

Any takers?

You said "anyone". Be more careful with your wording next time.

I think you will need to clarify what you mean by "in business" before anyone will take you seriously.

Cool service, the only thing that would stop me from using it is that the fee is too high.

In your opinion, what would be a more reasonable fee?

I'll take your bet for 50 BTC.

I think you and MadHatter are right, and I don't think mailing out cash is sustainable, but I think it can last more than 45 days.

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If bitcoin2cash.com is no longer operating as an exchange 45 days from 2011-04-08, and operation is suspended for a period of more than 30 days, I will pay 50 BTC to nanaimogold.
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You meant 5000 BTC, not 50 BTC right? *cough*Igotyoucovered*cough*

If the bet is 50 BTC, I would take that bet :). I think they will still be in business.

bitcoin2cash is the one that said 5000 BTC, nanaimogold didn't specify an amount.

The funniest part is that I've already been in business since July of 2010. This is just a site redesign. It's not really a new service other than the automation. I've been sending/receiving cash for quite a while now.

Here's proof: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1303.msg17158#msg17158

Maybe I shouldn't have said anything but I can't, in good conscience, let you take nanaimogold's money like that. Unless of course, it's me doing it.  8)

How about a discount offer to mail up to $100 (and only round dollars) within the USA for $2 with a one week delay? It should only cost $0.50 for a 1oz US stamp, envelope, and wrapping paper, and no more than 5 minutes of your time to pick bills, fold in paper, put in envelope, and write the address, assuming you go by a mailbox at least once a week anyway. Since you've been doing this for a year, don't you already have a good feel for what's involved and what's a reasonable price?

Not really since all of my trades except for a few people testing the waters were over hundreds of dollars and took place about every other week, the maximum being $1000 at once. This is going to be more of a high volume service (hopefully). However, now that I see that the weak point in my business is the fee, I'll lower it for promotional purposes to $5 (which means people that got $5 in the other promotion will get one cash withdrawal for free), possibly lose some money for a little while but then change it from there once I figure out something that isn't losing me money.

Thank you and thanks to everyone else that's given me constructive input and been humble about it rather than kicking sand in my face.

I have ran many large corporations in the past and I've studied law for many years. I'm not a charlatan.


An 'anonymous' customer isn't going to sue and reveal who they are. They are going to complain in public.

When someone uses your service to purchase drugs from Silk Road, expect the police... eventually. (Investigators always follow the money.) Your LLC will not help you at all in this case.

In the highly unlikely event that you do end up in a legal battle, the profits from your service will not cover the legal fees. You'll end up paying them out of pocket anyway. So much for protecting your personal assets, as you'll end up spending them voluntarily.


Good. Profit shouldn't be your motive. There isn't any. This only strengthens my point above.


Don't be so dramatic. You have been offered suggestions from people who are actually doing large volumes of cash in the mail. We are simply pointing out the pitfalls that you need to be aware of. We want to see Bitcoin successful; just as you do. Getting hostile towards people that are trying to help you is really uncalled for.

Anyway, I wish you the best luck and I won't be participating in the betting.

With no ill will or vexation,
The Madhatter

I didn't say you were a charlatan. I just said you're taking an unnecessary risk and that's not the kind of thing an entrepreneur should be doing. I'm glad you've studied law. Next, you should study business.



So because I may or may not voluntarily spend my personal assets therefore I should open myself up to involuntarily losing my personal assets? That's ridiculous. The point is to mitigate or mimimize risk. As an individual, I would be forced to fight a legal battle with my personal assets or get a default judgment and lose my personal assets. As an LLC, I could opt for the default judgment, close the business down permanently and still keep my personal assets.

The longer you talk to me the more it's obvious that your advice is worthless at best and harmful at worst. Please, just stop talking to me. You're advice is unwanted and unneeded. Thanks.

In spirit I accept this wager but practically we need some standard of proof. I can't think of any way to be sure that he is doing any trades.

Until we can agree on that, I can't see this working. Ideas?

S

How about, doing a trade?

Yes, I remember. You are that address in Alabama that some folks complained was losing mail. You were not trying to mail out cash (only receive it) until now. As I recall, we suggested that you not use the word "cash" on your mail.

Anyway, I'm not interested in spending time discovering your past. You are not going to succeed in mailing cash to people. In the least you will get joed and your reputation smeared.

Good Luck!

The name of my business is bitcoin2cash... bitcoin to cash... you turn bitcoins into cash... you give me bitcoins, I give you cash... by mail.

Here's the google cache as evidence: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:f00HWY8tmVAJ:bitcoin2cash.com

If you don't know what you're talking about then don't make wild assertions. It only makes you look ignorant.

The study of commercial law includes the studying of business if you branch out far enough. You seem to know how much law I've studied. I'm in complete awe at your false assumptions.


You're assuming that you are, in fact, sued by an 'anonymous' customer. You're also assuming that it isn't some government agency wielding a criminal charge/investigation. If both *highly* unlikely statements are true, you would be right.

What plans do you have for your active customers if you opt for a default judgment? Return the cash? Lose it all to lawyers? I'm sure your customers would like to know.


Actually, it is educational to everyone who cares to read it. You are thinking only of yourself.

Don't care. Didn't read it. Now ignoring you. Bye.

How childish.

As a side note: does anyone know what happened to BitPredict (Bitcoin Prediction Market)?

It didn't went anywhere. The owner I was working with is inactive. In any case, I should talk to him about the project and how to proceed.(I got paid a long time ago but I should be responsible for what I produced even if he gave me no deadline and no discipline)

The project is open source and I don't give up very easily. Eventually, I will return to the project.

P.S. For those who are worried about my ability to complete the Automata RTS project, I will have a completed project soon(http://jstet.kibabase.com/jstet.html for those who's interested) that demonstrate my ability to complete projects despite no discipline and deadline. I will deliver a roadmap that will details what I want to complete, though I don't know how long the project will take to mature to beta and that will be my deadline. Blogging about my progress each day will be my discipline.

I can't seem to login... I just put my gmail email in there right? ie: xxxxxx@gmail.com?

No, you put in https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id because we will never know your email address, only a random string that Google sends back after you login.

 :-[

What's wrong?

nothing, just embarassed

Oh, well there's no need. OpenID is still not that popular even though lots of big names are backing it. It's no surprise that a lot of people aren't used to it.

I'll attempt to perform an exchange after 45 days.

Also, I forgot to mention that if you use Google's version of OpenID with your Google account you can have two-factor authentication which makes this the most secure exchange at the moment, unless someone else has two-factor authentication or is also using OpenID.

Read more about it: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/advanced-sign-in-security-for-your.html

Also, Google provides the ability to use one-time-passwords which is useful if you need to use an insecure network or a limited browser.

I just did what I promised and sold 100 BTC at $0.20 each. Most of the bids were way over that but 2 lucky people bid exactly that amount and made off quite well. I will do the same thing with 1000 BTC at $0.40 on May, 1st.

You can see the list of trades here: https://www.bitcoin2cash.com/json/trades.php

I've just listed 1,000 BTC for sale at $1.00 USD each, which will stay at that price until someone buys them all, no matter how high the market price gets.

I've just updated the front page with some W3C badges and a nice little dynamic chart of recent trade prices.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I would also like to take nanaimogold's bet.  I wager 50 BTC.  I propose the following terms:

1. On June 1, I will enter the #bitcoin-otc channel.  I will say, "Please help me win a bet by conducting a free transaction with bitcoin2cash.com! See http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5307.0;all".  If necessary I will provide more detail in the channel in response to questions.  Nanaimogold may do similar.
2. bitcoin2cash will offer to waive all transaction fees for up to 20 people for the period of June 1 to June 15.  Up to 10 people may be specified by me, and up to 10 people may be specified by nanaimogold.
3. By June 15, I will produce signed statements by at least 5 distinct people saying "I successfully conducted a transaction on bitcoin2cash.com after May 31, 2011.  I was not paid by anyone to make this statement.".  Each of the signers will have a total trust rating of 5 or greater, as verifiable at http://trust.bitcoin-otc.com/viewratings.php .  If I fail to do this, I lose the bet.
4. Nanaimogold may produce signed statements by distinct people saying "I attempted to conduct a transaction on bitcoin2cash.com on 2011-06-YY, but was unable to do so.  I was not paid by anyone to make this statement."  Again, each of the signers must have a trust rating of 5 or greater.  Also, each of nanaimogold's statements must have a different date (YY), just in case there is a transient outage.  If Nanaimogold produces at least 5 such statements by June 15, I lose the bet.

If I can produce 5 signatures *and* nanaimogold does not produce 5 signatures, then I win the bet, and Nanaimogold will send 50 BTC to 18tqbBysusM8JBfGEgNQggLk6VR6gbsNfx .  Otherwise I will send 50 BTC to an address of Nanaimogold's choosing.

Nanaimogold may signify acceptance of this bet by posting the phrase "I accept abliss's bet" on this thread by 2011-04-30, and including a BTC address for payment.  If he does not like the terms of this bet, he should propose a revision of the terms.  Otherwise he should quit talking smack about bitcoin2cash.


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There are no transaction fees. Trading is free. Depositing cash is free. There is only a withdrawal fee for me sending you cash by mail of $5, to cover shipping and handling. Is that what you meant?

Lol, if this bet happens I will ship some cash on June 1st to make a trade. Or maybe sell coins if the price is okay so I don't have to bother with a stamp.

All the Bitcoins listed on the market were sold. Now there's several buyers but no sellers.

https://www.bitcoin2cash.com/orders.php

If the prices people are bidding are too low for your tastes, please list your BTC for sale at the appropriate price so we can attract new buyers.

Listed the promo Bitcoins I got =D

I just posted an ask for 145 BTC at $1.73, and I'll soon increase that quantity.

Forgive me for my stupid question, but I've never used an exchange like this before.  What happens if the numbers don't match up exactly?  For instance, I have an "ask" offer of 5 BTC for $1.69 apiece.  In the "bid" column there is someone bidding for 10 BTC at $1.69 apiece.  Will this trade ever happen or would I have to offer to sell exactly 10 for the transaction to occur?  Does it do this other way around as well, or only when the bid quantity is more than the ask quantity?

When order matching occurs (every 5 minutes at this exchange, usually instant at others), a larger order at the same price as an opposite smaller order will be partially filled, regardless of whether the larger order is a bid or an ask.

See that's what I thought would happen as well, but both orders have been sitting there for over an hour with no changes.  Is there some extra step I need to do manually, or perhaps has something stalled on the server end (in which case I should probably use email or something)?  Or am I reading the numbers wrong somehow?

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3602/screenyr.th.png (http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3602/screenyr.png)

EDIT:  Also, since I can't find this info in any threads or the FAQ, how many confirmations does Bitcoin2Cash wait for upon receiving a Bitcoin deposit before crediting the account? 

Unless it's a display rounding issue, I don't know why those orders haven't been matched yet. It does seem you should email them.

I haven't noticed.

For some reason, the RPC server was locked up. I restarted it and everything is running normally again. Nothing was lost, just a pause in service.

Have you updated to 0.3.21 yet? It fixes some deadlocks which cause the daemon to become unresponsive.

I just did. Thanks for the suggestion.

First off, thanks for fixing things.  I've made several exchanges since then.  I've also learned through observation that BTC deposits take somewhere between 1 and 3 confirmations to appear in the account (wasn't watching too closely to get a more exact number).

I had a quick question though: in another topic you mentioned:
In light of your involvement with the Alabama relief efforts, are you still planning to go ahead with your $0.40 promotional sale in a few days?  So far you've proven to be a man of your word, but I just want to make sure.

(I'm asking this here to help prevent that thread from going more off-topic)

Yes, I will be going ahead with my sale as usual. I see a lot of people bidding exactly $0.40 but I hope people realize that if someone bids $0.41 they will get their orders filled first.

@bitcoin2cash: I sent some cash about 10 days ago. How long does it usually take to get there from Canada? I was hoping to get it in before May 1 but so far it has not shown up in my account.

I'm not sure how long it takes from Canada. I wouldn't think it would be that long though. Please send me an email at sales@bitcoin2cash.com and I'll see what information I can find out for you.

Nevermind, it made it. The deposit is now showing in my account. 8)

Damn, only one of my two bids was filled  :(
Where did that 600 BTC bid at 0.52 come from?
https://www.bitcoin2cash.com/json/trades.php (https://www.bitcoin2cash.com/json/trades.php)
I happened to refresh the order page just seconds before the 1000 BTC was released into the market and the 600 BTC bid was never listed in the order book  ???

Can anyone with positive/negative experiences using my service rate me accordingly?

Thanks!

Can I withdraw BTC? nvm found it

What rating are we talking about here?  The new "reputation" feature on the forum that appears to have been just added?  Or on Bitcoin-OTC?

I've had good experiences with the site so far, at least.

if anyone was wondering, I got my btc just fine

Both or either. Thanks!

I've executed some trades on bitcoin2cash.com without any issues. I've also withdrawn and deposited funds reliably. Sending cash took longer than I expected, but when I inquired by email I had a response within 24 hours (funds may take 2-7 days to reach an account).

Overall, I've had a very positive experience with bitcoin2cash.com and would recommend it. I increased my OTC rating to 2 this morning. Thanks and keep up the good work!

I have moved BTC in and out of bitcoin2cash.com and bought and sold small quantities of BTC.  I now have 40 btc for sale at 3.40

If there is a request I can add more.

Some people have been having issues using Google for OpenID. The issue stems from the fact that there are several different OpenID URL's that they provide.

https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id

https://profiles.google.com/yourgoogleidhere/about

https://profiles.google.com/u/0/yourgoogleidhere/about?tab=mh

If you use these different URL's you will end up creating three different accounts. To avoid that, use only one. It doesn't matter which one you use, just make sure that it's the same each time you login.

I'm sorry for this but I don't have any way to fix it. I've contacted Google to let them know this is unacceptable. It would help if everyone else did the same thing as well.

You could use something like this: http://code.google.com/p/openid-selector/

demo: http://openid-selector.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/demo.html

That's a good suggestion but I'd have to put it in an overlay or popup to avoid cluttering up the interface.

I really like the design, especially the withdraw/deposit by mail function.

Next payday, I'll probably deposit some. And as others have mentioned, OpenId is a little hard to understand at first... but it's an alright system once you understand.

There was a large influx of new accounts which caused our update script to start timing out. I've redesigned the script so it it's about 100 times faster. This shouldn't be an issue anymore. We apologize to anyone that had a delay in their BTC showing up in their account. It should be there now. Please confirm this if you can. Thanks!

See what I mean? I respect your popularity on the forum, and wish you good luck with your venture, it is definitely something I will recommend as soon as someone would benefit from such a service. In the meantime I do not find your proposal attractive due to my personal and professional affinity towards the content display, graphic, copy and scripting parts of your website. I welcome and changes to improve the previous and I am stating my feedback.

When I first created that particular script last year, certain features of the RPC API weren't available. It wasn't an issue until recently so I updated the script to take advantage of the new features. I updated it immediately as soon as it became an issue.


What don't you like about the content display, graphics or copy? Is it too flashy? Is it not flashy enough? Is it hard to read? Please be specific. All I know right now is that "you don't like it". Why? What would you change? How can I make my website better in general other than to suit your particular tastes? What don't you like about the scripts? If you're talking about above then I've already answered that. The way the script works now simply wasn't possible before. Is there something else about how the website works that I should change?

I welcome suggestions. My goal is to make my website better and more accessible. That's why I really need you to be specific so I can understand what your concerns are. Thanks!

Very well, you deserve a better explanation than "I don't like it". My apologies for not devoting the required effort to provide my criticism. Let me propose a summary to you:


https://i.imgur.com/5oNAF.png

A - good header, nice and clean navigation, could remain like this or contain the login form / logged in details
B - good copy content, this is very good, more of the same should be posted in other areas of the site as well, as a marketing perspective change the focus from "we/I" to "you/customers".
C - login form and price ticker, could use a bit of whitespace adjustment
D - this chart is eye-catching, is dynamic, but it is hard to understand what exactly it represents at first glance
E - background-foreground separation is optional, I would use a stronger contrast like a line or shadow, but the designer decides
F - Unnecessary shiny-ness and contrast, toning it down a bit would help, but it could look ok if not for the big bar below
G - dollars? I think you want to explain "banknotes to bitcoin". I would include the bitcoin in there too, like an exchange arrow or recycle schematic, otherwise it looks like those "make zillion dollars online in 0.2 seconds" kind of sites
H - It's good that a web developers aims to maintain high quality of the code and website, these would go much better in the J area
I - can't explain this
J - too much whitespace, see H

I only made a few website designs myself but while attempting to find out how website design works, I've become a critique instead. You know like those people that tell you why your cooked food is good or not, but they can't cook for shit if you make them. So I hope I've explained myself and if any other designer agrees with my suggestions, you should consider some improvements.

Thanks, I'll keep your criticism in mind the next time the web designer overhauls the website.

With the recent hack of MtGox, I'd like to take some time to explain what kind of security practices we have in place.

First, we use OpenID which makes available two-factor authentication. You can have a keychain generator that creates a password required to login to OpenID. This prevents someone from hacking your account since as long as you have your keychain generator and they don't, they can't gain access. Also, Google's OpenID has a similar system whereby you have a text message sent to your phone. As long as you have your phone, someone with your OpenID password can't hack your account.

Second, our PHP scripts are developed by a Zend Certified PHP 5 Professional with 10+ years of security hardening experience and familiar with programming best practices. We also have in place an intrusion detection system designed to monitor and block malicious requests. The IDS is set to the maximum threshold possible. All database queries also filtered through the IDS and are sanitized, bound variables. Your personal identification token is a SHA-256 salted hash making it almost impossible to crack.

Finally, our Linux servers are monitored 24/7 and updated constantly with the latest security patches. All non-essential services and ports are disabled. We also share our hosting with thousands of very popular websites so if there were a security flaw, it would have a large impact and therefore our hosting provider has a huge incentive to make sure none of this is possible.

However, if there were a successful attack on our system, we have a response procedure in place to immediately shut down the website. Any transactions that occurred would be irreversible and the transaction database would not be rolled back. Though, any other vandalism would be undone. Because of this, we recommend that you only keep as many BTC as you are currently wishing to sell at a given time on our servers. This will minimize any possible risk to you in such a case.

Thanks for your business and if you have any questions please feel free to ask here or by email.

I know this is going to sound like a shill, but I've been really happy with this site and wanted to state as much.  Or maybe it's because I'm tipsy and wanted to type random stuff up.  >_>  

I've searched for about ten minutes and can't find the specific post, but at one point B2C said something along the lines of "The lowest 'sell' order on my site is several dollars below the lowest 'buy' order on MtGox.  You could make money simply by manipulating exchanges!"  Just wanted to mention that this is entirely possible, and I made a small profit recently doing exactly that.  It was only a few bucks, but hey, profit is profit.  Bought Bitcoins at $13 on B2C, transferred to MtGox, and sold at $16 (cashed out immediately to Dwolla because I have very little trust left in MtGox).

I've received two cash payouts from the exchange, both received successfully in the mail untampered, and he's responded timely to every concern I've emailed him (I understand there's a growing frustration with the amount of time it takes to get a response to a trouble ticket on MtGox lately).  For instance, soon after the MtGox hacking, I found myself with a "suspected malicious activity" error upon logging in to B2C.  I emailed him and got a response within a few hours.  Turns out it was a mistake, and the detection threshold was set slightly too high, but IMO it's better to have that threshold too high than too low.  When my money is at stake, there isn't such a thing as "too much security."

Long story short, keep on truckin' B2C.  With no exchange fees other than the $5 for cash withdraw, I honestly don't know how you make a profit, if you do at all.  But you provide a valuable service to the Bitcoin community, and for that, I thank you.

...god that really does sound like a paid advertisement, in retrospect.  Oh well, I blame the rum.  

I just tried to withdraw bitcoin from bitcoin2cash and got a proxy error!  Please stay on top of things over there; bitcoin's reputation is already in shreds.

Logging in doesnt seem to work no matter which openID provider you use. Bitcoin2cash please fix this so you can get rid of my complaints :)

We are experiencing some growing pains. The VPS I was using for the back-end is choking on all the data it has to process so I have to upgrade to a new dedicated server. I'm migrating everything over. I have the old wallet file backed up in several locations so everyone's BTC is safe. I'll post more news if anything changes.

The website will be back up shortly. I have transferred everyone's BTC to the new server. No information or funds were lost during the move. However, everyone will be required to create a new account and send an email to sales@bitcoin2cash.com so I can transfer your funds to your new account. You need to have your old OpenID address, old account number, old deposit address or some other information that will allow me to identify your old account. Google accounts will work fine now, even if you switch to Google+ at a later time.

That's good news to hear the site is growing and will be back shortly.

Are you going to implement the new bitcoincharts.com API soon?

At first I wasn't planning on it but I've talked with the owner of bitcoincharts and he has assured me that the API won't be changed again so I will be making the requested changes.

I am happy to report that I have sent an email to bitcoin2cash and the admin answered it within minutes informing me that my withdrawals have been mailed on Monday. I am really happy with this service and relieve that is coming back after so many recently unsavory situations on the Bitcoin scene. I love this unique service and if it shuts down, it would be a big loss for the community.

Thank you and keep up the good work!
Shad0wbitz

I sent an email to sales@bitcoin2cash.com 21 hours ago, requesting that my account be restored on the new server. No reply yet...

Check your email.

Got it. My funds have been restored to my account on the new server and I put my orders back up. Thanks

I am sort of concerned because neither of the two envelopes I was told have been mailed on Monday with my cash have made my PO BOX. I have withdrawn money before and it never takes more than a business day. This time it is for a big amount, totaling almost $500 between both transactions.

I have written bitcoin2cash again to see if there is any explanation to this. I will post back when I have more answers.

Shad0wbitz

I was just about to send an email to you regarding this when I got yours. I've replied. I'll have to resend the letter. Please allow 5 business days to receive it.

I logged into my account recently and saw 0.0 bitcoins or dollars!  I am sure this has something to do with Open ID, but I don't understand open ID well enough to know what.  I am beginning to think that Open ID is an unreliable tool to use for login, particularly when the proprietor says shit like this:


See, the problem is open ID works sometimes and not others, and I have no idea when or why. So how am I supposed to know when my open ID becomes "old" (or "new")?

No answer from management yet either. Damn, what a crazy ride this bitcoin thing has been.

I don't think you understand what I mean by "old". I mean the OpenID address that was used before the system was reset.

All issues have been fixed. I'm just waiting on a few people to respond to my emails so I can recover their old accounts.

I must not understand.  I do nothing different and one day my OpenID doesn't work.  Mystery to me.

Someone is selling ~790 BTC at $3 each. If someone buys them and resells them at $4 each they could make a tidy profit.

Site now shows "Site temporarily unavailable."

Is that truly temporary or is Bitcoin2Cash no longer operating as an exchange?

Like this idea.

Incidentally, there is another service that offers bitcoins for cash in the mail:
 - http://www.get-bitcoin.com

We are currently down due to lack of funding issues. Anyone that needs to make a withdrawal please send me a PM and we'll work something out.