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Title: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Hydrogen on January 08, 2021, 09:33:28 PM Quote US President Donald Trump has signed an executive order banning transactions with eight Chinese apps. The apps include popular payments platform Alipay, as well as QQ Wallet and WeChat Pay. The order, which takes effect in 45 days, says that the apps are being banned because they are a threat to US national security. It flags the possibility that the apps could be used to track and build dossiers on US federal employees. Tencent QQ, CamScanner, SHAREit, VMate and WPS Office are also included within the order, which only kicks in after Mr Trump has left office. "The United States must take aggressive action against those who develop or control Chinese connected software applications to protect our national security," the order said. President Trump's order says "by accessing personal electronic devices such as smartphones, tablets, and computers, Chinese connected software applications can access and capture vast swaths of information from users, including sensitive personally identifiable information and private information." The Trump administration has ratcheted up pressure on Chinese companies in its final months in office, including those it considers a national security risk. President Trump has signed executive orders against a range of Chinese firms arguing they could share data with the Chinese government. Chinese social media app TikTok and telecoms giant Huawei have been among the casualties of Washington's crackdown. Last month, the Commerce Department added dozens of Chinese companies, including the country's top chipmaker SMIC and drone manufacturer DJI Technology, to a trade blacklist. The administration also restricted a number of Chinese and Russian companies with alleged military ties from buying sensitive US goods and technology. China has consistently denied claims that these firms share their data with the Chinese government and has responded by imposing its own export laws restricting the export of military technology. In August, the US ordered ByteDance, the owner of social media app TikTok, to either shut down or sell off its US assets. Despite missing a deadline to complete the sale, the US is yet to shut down the app and negotiations continue over its future. Delisting debacle The latest ban comes as the White House quietly pushed the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) to consider a second U-turn on its decision to delist three Chinese telecoms giants. Last week the NYSE announced it would delist the China Mobile, China Telecom and China Unicom in line with another executive order. On Monday, however, the NYSE reversed that decision, announcing it had decided not to delist the three companies after further consultation with US regulators. The NYSE made the decision based on ambiguity about whether the securities were actually covered by the order. However, the exchange has come under pressure over its decision. The US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin called the NYSE President Stacey Cunningham to tell her he disagrees with the decision, according to Reuters. Republican Senator and China hardliner Marco Rubio has also spoken out, saying that the NYSE's refusal to delist the companies was an "outrageous effort" to undermine the President's executive order. The NYSE is owned by Atlanta-based Intercontinental Exchange (ICE), which is run by billionaire Jeffrey Sprecher. His wife Kelly Loeffler is one of two Republican senators facing run-off elections on Tuesday in Georgia. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55555269 .... Not certain how long these bans will remain in effect. Biden could overturn these executive orders the second he assumes office? Perhaps this could influence china into taking a less harsh stance on crypto exchanges and mining in the country. If Trump bans all of china's fiat apps then bitcoin and crypto would be the only things they had left? China has announced bans on cryptocurrency exchanges and cryptocurrency mining in the past. With mixed enforcement and results. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: jackg on January 08, 2021, 09:38:48 PM Does Congress have to vote it in, has it already or is the US president just allowed to make laws like this?
It's possible Biden will pull it put if it wasn't on the advice of the security council (or whatever its called) but banning some Chinese companies from operating over there (it's just a like for like exchange) . Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Hydrogen on January 08, 2021, 09:45:05 PM Does Congress have to vote it in, has it already or is the US president just allowed to make laws like this? Its an executive order. Its not required to be voted on by house or senate. In the years leading up to Trump's inauguration US Presidential executive orders were expanded upon. To a point where Trump can order things like this on a broad scale without oversight. I would guess Trump and his lawyers investigated carefully to try to find a way to make executive orders which the following administration would have difficulty overturning. Without specifics being divulged its difficult to know what type of long term durability these measures have. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on January 08, 2021, 09:48:02 PM Does Congress have to vote it in, has it already or is the US president just allowed to make laws like this? I'm no expert on the US government or how exactly laws are passed, but I am a US citizen and I'm pretty sure Trump is just trying to pull a bunch of bullshit in his last days in office which Biden will likely reverse. I wouldn't expect anything Trump signs between now and the 20th of this month to hold up for long, and I wouldn't worry about this news story in particular.Not certain how long these bans will remain in effect. Biden could overturn these executive orders the second he assumes office? Whatever Trump decrees as a lame duck president Biden can easily overturn (I'm fairly sure of this, but perhaps someone with a bit more knowledge than me can give a better answer). So happy Trump is headed out of the White House, even if he's not going willingly. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: DaveF on January 08, 2021, 09:53:37 PM I would guess Trump and his lawyers investigated carefully to try to find a way to make executive orders which the following administration would have difficulty overturning. Without specifics being divulged its difficult to know what type of long term durability these measures have. From what a lawyer friend explained, yeah the next administration can remove most of them on day 1. Things like this will probably be litigated. Since it does not go into effect for 45 days it's plenty of time for the lawyers to get in billable hours ;) -Dave Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: jackg on January 08, 2021, 09:55:06 PM Does Congress have to vote it in, has it already or is the US president just allowed to make laws like this? I'm no expert on the US government or how exactly laws are passed, but I am a US citizen and I'm pretty sure Trump is just trying to pull a bunch of bullshit in his last days in office which Biden will likely reverse. I wouldn't expect anything Trump signs between now and the 20th of this month to hold up for long, and I wouldn't worry about this news story in particular.I imagine that might mean it's coming back to him saying he passed laws that Biden wants to repeal (if he runs again in the next election) as part of the start of his next campaign for banning a bunch of things and doing things that looks good now. Like how he wanted the stimulus checks to go up (from what I can tell). Although with Biden in charge there might be a chance European or Canadian systems are taken on for the rest of the pandemic. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: n0ne on January 08, 2021, 10:03:08 PM Already USA was making investigation on more number of Chinese application that is being used. Earlier itself with the banwog tiktok from India, USA announced its closure of more number of applications for security reason. Now this has been taking effect, as the ruling party is surrendering everything required for the governance.
Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Darker45 on January 09, 2021, 01:07:33 AM There is reason to adopt a very cautious or even a suspicious approach in terms of Chinese apps and companies. And even if I am not a fan of Trump, I am certainly in support of his courageous decisions against these Chinese companies.
Everybody knows there is no freedom nor independence in China. If an ordinary individual is not free to speak up whatever it is in his/her mind, how much more to a company which is trying to do business and profit? The Chinese government is the almighty. It is the be-all and end-all of everything Chinese. It can handily use people as well as companies to meet their objectives. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: bits4books on January 09, 2021, 01:23:26 PM As much as I like Trump as a politician (despite all his populism) this is one of those decisions that I don't really support. I understand his attitude about China and support it, but such prohibitions are too obvious and too stupid a measure to take, because such an action creates a very strong opposition. I am sure that Biden will repeal this law to show how progressive it is and that America is able to fight on an economic basis with China and without political interference but this will be a very bad decision.
Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: bassbity on January 09, 2021, 02:37:22 PM Trump's impeachment is better before things go awry. Trump is here as a former president, so that Trup's policy must be stopped for the sake of balancing the American economic system. In addition, Biden must be clear that he has full control over whether the application is prohibited or not. Even though it was launched from China, of course if it is prohibited then there is a kind of restricted freedom.
America must prove that as a democracy it must be an example for all countries, otherwise it does not deserve to be called a democracy that upholds freedom of interaction. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Lucius on January 09, 2021, 03:21:40 PM I'm not familiar with the new president's views on China in general, but somehow it seems to me that the Chinese could breathe a little easier when Trump moves away from the White House. However, I do not think that the new administration will just remove all the bans and restrictions imposed on China over the past 4 years, unless the evidence of espionage turns out to be false.
The US and China are the two biggest competitors in the world, but it is more than obvious that they need each other when it comes to trade. As far as I know from 10 largest ports in the world, as many as 7 are located in China and provide incredible logistics for world trade. Also, their labor is pretty cheap and there are more than enough workers - and while the world may not agree with the Communist Party's methods, let someone tell me where Apple could make such large and efficient factories where a worker has an average salary of $300? It is possible, however, that Biden will put more pressure on the Chinese through diplomatic methods rather than open trade wars, which actually hurt the whole world in the sense that the US has put great pressure on its strategic partners to implement the same measures against China. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: hatshepsut93 on January 10, 2021, 09:16:38 AM Perhaps this could influence china into taking a less harsh stance on crypto exchanges and mining in the country. If Trump bans all of china's fiat apps then bitcoin and crypto would be the only things they had left? What do you mean "only things they have left"? It's not like Trump is erasing those apps from existence, he merely bans them in the US, and it's hardly a big deal, cause Americans are using their own appls like Venmo or Cash App. And those Chinese apps are mostly used in China, they wouldn't really care even if whole world banned them. And Americans can still buy stuff from Aliexpress via Visa/Mastercard, just like they did before. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: virasog on January 10, 2021, 10:16:55 AM Not certain how long these bans will remain in effect. Biden could overturn these executive orders the second he assumes office? Perhaps this could influence china into taking a less harsh stance on crypto exchanges and mining in the country. If Trump bans all of china's fiat apps then bitcoin and crypto would be the only things they had left? China has announced bans on cryptocurrency exchanges and cryptocurrency mining in the past. With mixed enforcement and results. Trump orders can be changed once Biden take over but i don't see that happening. The decisions of the USA government is not taken by a single person. The policies of the USA more or less remain the same with the change of the president. Secondly china is not dependent upon the USA as much as other countries are dependent and it does not impact them much. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: jaberwock on January 10, 2021, 02:59:40 PM There is reason to adopt a very cautious or even a suspicious approach in terms of Chinese apps and companies. And even if I am not a fan of Trump, I am certainly in support of his courageous decisions against these Chinese companies. I agree with this statement. I mean I hate Trump as much as the next guy, it has been a nightmare 5 years with him BUT when it comes to Chinese apps and companies, I do not trust them at all. One thing you need to know about Chinese companies is the fact that Chinese government owns them all, it may "look" like someone owns it, but the reality is that Chinese government is behind it.Everybody knows there is no freedom nor independence in China. If an ordinary individual is not free to speak up whatever it is in his/her mind, how much more to a company which is trying to do business and profit? The Chinese government is the almighty. It is the be-all and end-all of everything Chinese. It can handily use people as well as companies to meet their objectives. You can start any type of company you want in China but at the end of the day if you ever succeed and become global, they will take over, if they want to they will kick you out and put another CEO in charge as well. Look at what happened to Jack Ma recently, dude was one of the richest ever in the world and he said one bad thing about government and China made him disappear. So long story short we are talking about evil vs evil here and I am fine with it. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Husires on January 10, 2021, 03:06:49 PM I do not think that the new administration will cancel these decisions from the first day, they can be used to make better negotiation with China in the event that there is a need for more negotiation, but I do not think that Biden would go in this way.
The decisions represent a serious voice regarding the expansion of China in many technical, and few Americans use it. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Kakmakr on January 10, 2021, 04:01:17 PM These executive orders will all be nullified when Biden comes into power, because he will over turn most of these ridiculous decisions that Trump has made. Yes, Trump pushed the agenda to "Put America first" ....but some of the restrictions are causing more damage.. than good and Biden will overturn that. ;)
The Chinese in turn will ban or block American social media companies and it will just cancel out the banning of Chinese payment platforms. The same thing happened with the trade restrictions and many American companies suffered as a result of that. ::) Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: el kaka22 on January 10, 2021, 04:58:56 PM Perhaps this could influence china into taking a less harsh stance on crypto exchanges and mining in the country. If Trump bans all of china's fiat apps then bitcoin and crypto would be the only things they had left? What do you mean "only things they have left"? It's not like Trump is erasing those apps from existence, he merely bans them in the US, and it's hardly a big deal, cause Americans are using their own appls like Venmo or Cash App. And those Chinese apps are mostly used in China, they wouldn't really care even if whole world banned them. And Americans can still buy stuff from Aliexpress via Visa/Mastercard, just like they did before. Simply look at TikTok, why did they suddenly created this HUGE problem out of being banned from USA? Because even though it is a chinese app, they are taking tens of billions of information points from all americans while making insane returns of profit as well, being banned from USA would mean China would lose insane amount of money and information from USA. Which is why chinese apps want to be in USA, so they can make great returns, Chinese people do not have that much money, americans do. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: wxxyrqa on January 10, 2021, 05:18:53 PM These executive orders will all be nullified when Biden comes into power, because he will over turn most of these ridiculous decisions that Trump has made. Yes, Trump pushed the agenda to "Put America first" ....but some of the restrictions are causing more damage.. than good and Biden will overturn that. ;) Biden will undoubtedly have to fix a lot of what Trump did. Today, many expect various changes from the government of the country by Biden, but I also think it is necessary to take into account that almost all politicians have a slightly different pre-election rhetoric and the rhetoric after the inauguration. We need to wait a little longer and we will see what will be Biden's policy towards China.The Chinese in turn will ban or block American social media companies and it will just cancel out the banning of Chinese payment platforms. The same thing happened with the trade restrictions and many American companies suffered as a result of that. ::) Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: romero121 on January 10, 2021, 05:22:45 PM This started with India, because it is the first Country to make bans over large number of Chinese applications under use. Following India's decision USA made its ban list for Chinese applications. It counts more number of popular applications, and the same has made the Chinese information technology market got a big blow.
Now Trump has made it an order to be executed. However the new government might have different plans. Upon that the ban list can increase or else the ban will be taken by the new government. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: eaLiTy on January 10, 2021, 09:13:48 PM Not certain how long these bans will remain in effect. Biden could overturn these executive orders the second he assumes office? India already banned over 50 Chinese application in the past few months and it was expected other countries to follow suit because the reason they said about the ban is security reasons. To be frank taking strict action on cryptocurrency exchanges will not help anyone as the business is run by their citizen which will help in providing more jobs and the crypto space has nothing to do with any specific country.Perhaps this could influence china into taking a less harsh stance on crypto exchanges and mining in the country. If Trump bans all of china's fiat apps then bitcoin and crypto would be the only things they had left? Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Kong Hey Pakboy on January 12, 2021, 04:01:53 AM Not certain how long these bans will remain in effect. Biden could overturn these executive orders the second he assumes office? India already banned over 50 Chinese application in the past few months and it was expected other countries to follow suit because the reason they said about the ban is security reasons. To be frank taking strict action on cryptocurrency exchanges will not help anyone as the business is run by their citizen which will help in providing more jobs and the crypto space has nothing to do with any specific country.Perhaps this could influence china into taking a less harsh stance on crypto exchanges and mining in the country. If Trump bans all of china's fiat apps then bitcoin and crypto would be the only things they had left? Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: jaberwock on January 12, 2021, 03:16:45 PM Not certain how long these bans will remain in effect. Biden could overturn these executive orders the second he assumes office? India already banned over 50 Chinese application in the past few months and it was expected other countries to follow suit because the reason they said about the ban is security reasons. To be frank taking strict action on cryptocurrency exchanges will not help anyone as the business is run by their citizen which will help in providing more jobs and the crypto space has nothing to do with any specific country.Perhaps this could influence china into taking a less harsh stance on crypto exchanges and mining in the country. If Trump bans all of china's fiat apps then bitcoin and crypto would be the only things they had left? However these people literally allowed their citizens to die working too harsh conditions and for very cheap, making stuff to the whole world for decades and ended up rich as a whole nation and improved everything later on, the salaries, the conditions, everything got better, it is still cheap because they can mass produce very easily, but it was literally hell there for decades in order to become what they have become, you will not destroy a whole manufacturing hub of the entire world by just not allowing few apps. In fact if you removed every single line of code from china, they would still be capable of living with the power they have on other sectors (unfortunately to the rest of the world). Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: stompix on January 12, 2021, 03:43:57 PM Biden will undoubtedly have to fix a lot of what Trump did. T Hmm, how about he starts by fixing other things first? Like the banning of Google, Wikipedia, Facebook, Youtube, and others? Everyone starts shouting when the US bans a Chinese application but nobody even dares say a word about how Americans apps are treated in China. Double standards much? America must prove that as a democracy it must be an example for all countries, otherwise it does not deserve to be called a democracy that upholds freedom of interaction. America must prove ****. The other countries should stop just looking at the US as an example and start copying the good things before pointing out the flaws. What can a democracy prove to a communist dictatorship? Words and discussions have had no effect, China bans everything when it wants not giving a damn, maybe it's time to fight fire with fire, ban the companies as they do, make the same rules for stockholders and ownership, ban foreign companies from accessing government funds or programs or contracts like in China and that's when the things will start changing for everyone, not just for a half. The Chinese in turn will ban or block American social media companies and it will just cancel out the banning of Chinese payment platforms. The same thing happened with the trade restrictions and many American companies suffered as a result of that. ::) Yeah, I bet every social media company in the US is so concerned about this. They might ban them all but it will take some time, they first have to unban them! ;) What will be the next step, ban US banks in China? Or Visa and Mastercard (https://qz.com/1539255/visa-and-mastercard-still-cant-enter-china/) ;D ;D Happy banning, that's when they will manage to find something they haven't yet banned. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: RealMalatesta on January 13, 2021, 08:48:33 AM Like in the US, Trump also stated that he had banned Alipay and seven other Chinese apps because it threatens their national security. But do you think Trump and India banned these Chinese apps for protecting their security or due to different reasons that they don't want China to have a better economy because many people are into their products nowadays? Are they really two different things? Are we sure about that? I mean obviously we can say that having a chinese application used by millions of americans is a dangerous thing because in coding you could get as much information about people as you can, which tiktok was condemned and nearly got banned for, and alipay and other apps do get information as well, maybe not as much as tiktok but they still do. Looking at alipay, they will not die just because americans do not use it, they will still be great, but at the end of the day there will be a small hit financially too.But when I look at china, I do not see everyone using facebook, twitter, instagram or other american apps, if they do not use it, and make their own alternates, why do americans are forced to use chinese ones? It is a double edged sword, chinese ban american apps, and americans ban chinese apps, it is that simple. It both allows countries to be safe, but also do not allow other nations make money from it. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Mauser on January 13, 2021, 10:43:44 AM This started with India, because it is the first Country to make bans over large number of Chinese applications under use. Following India's decision USA made its ban list for Chinese applications. It counts more number of popular applications, and the same has made the Chinese information technology market got a big blow. Now Trump has made it an order to be executed. However the new government might have different plans. Upon that the ban list can increase or else the ban will be taken by the new government. It's kind of sad that India had to start with these bans and not the western countries. China is banning western apps like Facebook or WhatsApp for years. In my opinion all countries should ban Chinese apps until they open up their market. It can't be the case that they close them self's off but want access do everybody else. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: 1l1l11ll1l on January 13, 2021, 11:55:45 AM This started with India, because it is the first Country to make bans over large number of Chinese applications under use. Following India's decision USA made its ban list for Chinese applications. It counts more number of popular applications, and the same has made the Chinese information technology market got a big blow. It's kind of sad that India had to start with these bans and not the western countries. China is banning western apps like Facebook or WhatsApp for years. In my opinion all countries should ban Chinese apps until they open up their market. It can't be the case that they close them self's off but want access do everybody else. Now Trump has made it an order to be executed. However the new government might have different plans. Upon that the ban list can increase or else the ban will be taken by the new government. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: thienlonghue on January 13, 2021, 12:49:31 PM Following the ban on Tiktok, it seems Trump finally remembers embargoing Chinese tech companies. This will certainly make it difficult for President Biden's efforts later
Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Findingnemo on January 13, 2021, 01:16:40 PM Biden is not actually an anti Chinese President that is why Trump is trying to make the things more difficult for the new president. I don't think these bans are going to be permanent for sure.
Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Darker45 on January 13, 2021, 01:37:39 PM Biden is not actually an anti Chinese President that is why Trump is trying to make the things more difficult for the new president. I don't think these bans are going to be permanent for sure. On what basis do you say that Biden is actually not an anti-Chinese president? At the very least, Biden has called China's Xi a "thug." Well, I am not hoping that Biden will be anti-Chinese for the sake of being anti-Chinese but he really needs to stand up against China in so many aspects. Analysts are saying that Biden is most probably pursuing a multilateral approach as regards China as compared to Trump's unilateral approach. Either way, Biden cannot afford to condone China's decisions and actions in so many things whether at home, at the region, or at the international stage if he doesn't want the power of China to grow uncontrollably. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: mezzaluna on January 13, 2021, 02:36:03 PM Quote US President Donald Trump has signed an executive order banning transactions with eight Chinese apps. The apps include popular payments platform Alipay, as well as QQ Wallet and WeChat Pay. The order, which takes effect in 45 days, says that the apps are being banned because they are a threat to US national security. It flags the possibility that the apps could be used to track and build dossiers on US federal employees. Tencent QQ, CamScanner, SHAREit, VMate and WPS Office are also included within the order, which only kicks in after Mr Trump has left office. "The United States must take aggressive action against those who develop or control Chinese connected software applications to protect our national security," the order said. President Trump's order says "by accessing personal electronic devices such as smartphones, tablets, and computers, Chinese connected software applications can access and capture vast swaths of information from users, including sensitive personally identifiable information and private information." The Trump administration has ratcheted up pressure on Chinese companies in its final months in office, including those it considers a national security risk. President Trump has signed executive orders against a range of Chinese firms arguing they could share data with the Chinese government. Chinese social media app TikTok and telecoms giant Huawei have been among the casualties of Washington's crackdown. Last month, the Commerce Department added dozens of Chinese companies, including the country's top chipmaker SMIC and drone manufacturer DJI Technology, to a trade blacklist. The administration also restricted a number of Chinese and Russian companies with alleged military ties from buying sensitive US goods and technology. China has consistently denied claims that these firms share their data with the Chinese government and has responded by imposing its own export laws restricting the export of military technology. In August, the US ordered ByteDance, the owner of social media app TikTok, to either shut down or sell off its US assets. Despite missing a deadline to complete the sale, the US is yet to shut down the app and negotiations continue over its future. Delisting debacle The latest ban comes as the White House quietly pushed the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) to consider a second U-turn on its decision to delist three Chinese telecoms giants. Last week the NYSE announced it would delist the China Mobile, China Telecom and China Unicom in line with another executive order. On Monday, however, the NYSE reversed that decision, announcing it had decided not to delist the three companies after further consultation with US regulators. The NYSE made the decision based on ambiguity about whether the securities were actually covered by the order. However, the exchange has come under pressure over its decision. The US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin called the NYSE President Stacey Cunningham to tell her he disagrees with the decision, according to Reuters. Republican Senator and China hardliner Marco Rubio has also spoken out, saying that the NYSE's refusal to delist the companies was an "outrageous effort" to undermine the President's executive order. The NYSE is owned by Atlanta-based Intercontinental Exchange (ICE), which is run by billionaire Jeffrey Sprecher. His wife Kelly Loeffler is one of two Republican senators facing run-off elections on Tuesday in Georgia. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55555269 .... Not certain how long these bans will remain in effect. Biden could overturn these executive orders the second he assumes office? Perhaps this could influence china into taking a less harsh stance on crypto exchanges and mining in the country. If Trump bans all of china's fiat apps then bitcoin and crypto would be the only things they had left? China has announced bans on cryptocurrency exchanges and cryptocurrency mining in the past. With mixed enforcement and results. It would just affect China more greatly than the USA because as of the current situations, USA is still has the more stable Economic Chart. The Chinese Government just really hate Cryptocurrencies for some reason that is still unknown but imo, they are scared of Cryptocurrencies because they cannot control it. Biden would likely overturn this if the congress or senators would propose that this would help their power in achieving greater economical status. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Gozie51 on January 13, 2021, 02:46:35 PM Does Congress have to vote it in, has it already or is the US president just allowed to make laws like this? It's possible Biden will pull it put if it wasn't on the advice of the security council (or whatever its called) but banning some Chinese companies from operating over there (it's just a like for like exchange) . This maybe Trump's idea of serving it back to the Chinese because of the covid-19 issue with China as fingered to know what happened about it. Trump is about leaving office and this is coming now whether executive order or not, it may look like a way to make the companies go down in US. Whether Biden will reverse it depends on the legitimacy of the action anyway. Politics is about making friends and enemies. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Reid on January 13, 2021, 03:12:46 PM If it's not about business then he might be trying something else.
Maybe China's madness in a higher form for a worse government when Biden sits. I heard some goals from Biden about health, Covid-19, and banning entertainment industries until everything is clear but never about China. I guess we will just see how he will react to this. It's near. Thank goodness. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: iv4n on January 13, 2021, 08:18:28 PM Biden will undoubtedly have to fix a lot of what Trump did. T Hmm, how about he starts by fixing other things first? Like the banning of Google, Wikipedia, Facebook, Youtube, and others? Everyone starts shouting when the US bans a Chinese application but nobody even dares say a word about how Americans apps are treated in China. Double standards much? America must prove that as a democracy it must be an example for all countries, otherwise it does not deserve to be called a democracy that upholds freedom of interaction. America must prove ****. The other countries should stop just looking at the US as an example and start copying the good things before pointing out the flaws. What can a democracy prove to a communist dictatorship? Words and discussions have had no effect, China bans everything when it wants not giving a damn, maybe it's time to fight fire with fire, ban the companies as they do, make the same rules for stockholders and ownership, ban foreign companies from accessing government funds or programs or contracts like in China and that's when the things will start changing for everyone, not just for a half. The Chinese in turn will ban or block American social media companies and it will just cancel out the banning of Chinese payment platforms. The same thing happened with the trade restrictions and many American companies suffered as a result of that. ::) Yeah, I bet every social media company in the US is so concerned about this. They might ban them all but it will take some time, they first have to unban them! ;) What will be the next step, ban US banks in China? Or Visa and Mastercard (https://qz.com/1539255/visa-and-mastercard-still-cant-enter-china/) ;D ;D Happy banning, that's when they will manage to find something they haven't yet banned. Stompix some of your comments amaze me! I like to read you, and I often think about where you get all relevant informations!? :) And now Trump is in trouble! We will see some changes pretty soon with this change, do you agree? I wonder what you think about those changes? What we can expect from US in the next 4 years? What's more important, I would like to ask you what you think about the next big war... what you think can there be a war between US and China, or some other conflict that will pull US and China into the war? I like your insights, so I would like to hear your opinion about this! I think this is not an off-topic comment, all this fuzz lasts for some time already, and that will results somehow... I wonder what is your opinion about that?! Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: stompix on January 13, 2021, 10:01:02 PM Stompix some of your comments amaze me! I like to read you, and I often think about where you get all relevant informations!? :) Simple rule, research a bit before posting something, and sometimes I get it right and sometimes I fail majestically at it ;D And oh god, I did post some stupid things that will haunt me forever! But back to the story at hand, to try to get a better picture of any conflict you would have to put yourself in both positions - I am an American and I want to hurt China at most, what can I do with this move and how can they retaliate? - I am Chinese and I want to avoid this new ban, how can I do it and how can I retaliate? If after 20 minutes you've not gone mad and angry at the whole world probably you have a better view than most people who simply throw words around and you have realized that China can't retaliate because they were the first to ban everything American! What's more important, I would like to ask you what you think about the next big war... what you think can there be a war between US and China, or some other conflict that will pull US and China into the war? As I said, huge disclaimer, I was wrong a lot of times before and I might get proven wrong tomorrow! But for the war, I doubt there will be any, and it's exactly because of the points above, we have two countries that would love to make the other feel the pain but at the same time, they lack a method of doing so without hurting themselves. The US and China are now living the nightmare that powers in Europe have struggled with for ages, we go to war, it's pretty damn easy but god help us how much we have to lose even if we win!!!! China can't afford an economical war as imports and exports are its best weapons at this time, they can't afford to strike the US now that Europe hopes to rebuild relations, no matter what manufacturer powerhouse China is one must take a second look at some numbers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports), China might have 2.6 trillion in exports but Germany alone has 1.8, and suddenly someone is not that all that overpowered ;D No, China has no way of getting to war, a weaponized or an economical war and they know it. Same on the other side, the US under the democrats can't do it either because everyone would look at them and say, f** you, you're doing what Trump would have done and you were telling all the world how bad he was. No, they have no choice that at least for a year or two to leave the whole China mess as it is and not touch the subject even one bit. So, what's next? Well, a big boring nothing! :D Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: metenjean on January 14, 2021, 03:27:25 AM Don't worry just few week later Donald Trump left his position as United State president and now he will make many controversial way to change some thing big where not support him at the election time last year, we know how trump fired many minister because not want investigating about election result and claimed his competitor Joe Bidden cheating, I think not give anything with bans Alipay because when Joe Bidden become United President will be legal back.
Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: bryant.coleman on January 14, 2021, 04:40:18 AM Don't worry just few week later Donald Trump left his position as United State president and now he will make many controversial way to change some thing big where not support him at the election time last year, we know how trump fired many minister because not want investigating about election result and claimed his competitor Joe Bidden cheating, I think not give anything with bans Alipay because when Joe Bidden become United President will be legal back. It will not be very easy for Joe Biden to reverse the ban. If he does so, then he will fall into the trap that was set by Trump. In reality Trump isn't much concerned about Alipay or any other Chinese app. He wants to create a difficult situation for Biden, who received a lot of funding from the Chinese corporations. If Biden reverse the ban, then the GOP will accuse him of being pro-China. If he refrains from it, then his Chinese supporters would be angry. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: zanezane on January 14, 2021, 05:54:02 AM It will not be very easy for Joe Biden to reverse the ban. If he does so, then he will fall into the trap that was set by Trump. In reality Trump isn't much concerned about Alipay or any other Chinese app. He wants to create a difficult situation for Biden, who received a lot of funding from the Chinese corporations. If Biden reverse the ban, then the GOP will accuse him of being pro-China. If he refrains from it, then his Chinese supporters would be angry. If that were really the case, then I think that it is a really good move although a spineless one at that. I think that the only to reverse a ban without the backlash is to explain how this list does not compromise the security of their country in anyway. Also, improving their security on the cyberspace should have been the priority to make sure that even if there such things, a simple cyber attack is impossible to commit.Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: yhiaali3 on January 14, 2021, 07:59:23 AM Of course, Trump made many wrong decisions during his presidential term, and I think it is almost certain that the new administration will cancel these decisions because they are not in line with the American interest. China is an economic giant and fighting it in this failed way will lead to an increase in problems between the two countries and harm the already tired American economy, It is possible that China will resort to taking counter-measures if the new US administration does not cancel these decisions.
Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: iv4n on January 14, 2021, 08:03:29 AM ... So, what's next? Well, a big boring nothing! :D In some way it's a big boring nothing, in the other it's probably maintaining the current state, which suits everyone! That is what they do, fooling people around! I like your point of view, and maybe that's the real situation: But for the war, I doubt there will be any, and it's exactly because of the points above, we have two countries that would love to make the other feel the pain but at the same time, they lack a method of doing so without hurting themselves. The US and China are now living the nightmare that powers in Europe have struggled with for ages, we go to war, it's pretty damn easy but god help us how much we have to lose even if we win!!!! Nice words man, I think you hit the real truth with these words! So we can expect more "drama" from both(all) sides, but that will be just that, a little drama here and little drama there...just to keep the masses afraid and calm! And of course in that process some "players" will be fucked up, some new will appear... the same old, players are changing, but the game stays the same! Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: finaleshot2016 on January 14, 2021, 08:19:32 AM I doubt that biden will lift the ban on this Chinese apps because US is not the only one who bans those apps that might affect the national security of the country. India also ban those Chinese apps like tiktok and such because it violates the personal information of an individual. Also, it doesn't affect too much the US, because they already have those payment gateway exclusively for their citizen. But who knows what they're thinking right now, we can't really determine what's in the leader mind or their purpose of doing it.
Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: TheGreatPython on January 14, 2021, 03:46:08 PM Biden will undoubtedly have to fix a lot of what Trump did. T Hmm, how about he starts by fixing other things first? Like the banning of Google, Wikipedia, Facebook, Youtube, and others? Everyone starts shouting when the US bans a Chinese application but nobody even dares say a word about how Americans apps are treated in China. Think about how much of iPhones were made in china, almost all of them were made there, and you can go to china and realize that they have only their own phones popular in there, phones like huwai or xiaomi are all the buzz in china, why? Because of two things, one is the simple fact that iphones are incredibly expensive for regular Chinese people since china pays their workers a very tiny amount of money in sweatshops, they make it look like the minimum wage is decent but in reality there are tons of sweatshops still in china that pays 10% of what the minimum salary is. Secondly china gets a shit ton of taxes from foreign products while make it like almost no tax for domestic products. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: sana54210 on January 18, 2021, 03:23:18 PM I doubt that biden will lift the ban on this Chinese apps because US is not the only one who bans those apps that might affect the national security of the country. India also ban those Chinese apps like tiktok and such because it violates the personal information of an individual. Also, it doesn't affect too much the US, because they already have those payment gateway exclusively for their citizen. But who knows what they're thinking right now, we can't really determine what's in the leader mind or their purpose of doing it. Considering the progressive side of the democratic party and also budget committee chairman Bernie Sanders who is frankly the godfather of all progressives in USA, ended up hating china for all the human right violations they committed, I am sure Biden will have to keep it going. I do not know if Biden likes china or dislikes china, we may never know about it, but I know he cares about getting votes and being a good politician, so he will do what people want and people do not like china at all, especially in USA people hate china, so keeping it going forever would be beneficial for them both financially but also politically as well.There is no reason for Biden to start working with China all of a sudden, even politicians who do bad things do it because that would bring them more votes, which means if there is no beneficial outcome for Biden, he will just keep it going. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: oHnK on January 18, 2021, 06:35:44 PM Everyone starts shouting when the US bans a Chinese application but nobody even dares say a word about how Americans apps are treated in China. That is exactly the issue here, why should America be responsible for banning Chinese apps when china has banned american products for years now? First of all china should try to explain to the whole world why they only allow Chinese products to be consumed in china.I also see the way the Chinese government dictatorship has never been complained by other countries, and instead brings their country's economy to double-digit economic growth. Trump openly waged a trade war with China to counter the dictator's actions. From physical products to social media, they regulate so strictly that they use their own products. A smart way to create growth as the world's most densely populated population makes it a market for themselves. I don't blame Trump for banning Chinese products, it's a form of Trump's awareness of anticipating competition for his local products. I even hope my country does the same. Not even dependence on foreign products and forget to love their own products. If only there were strict regulations for using their own products as Trump and China do. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: tyz on January 18, 2021, 07:15:44 PM Already USA was making investigation on more number of Chinese application that is being used. Earlier itself with the banwog tiktok from India, USA announced its closure of more number of applications for security reason. Now this has been taking effect, as the ruling party is surrendering everything required for the governance. In my opinion, the US should ban all Chinese companies that have anything to do with consumer money transfers and that have nothing to do with financing imports and exports. It cannot be that companies that are virtually under full control of the greatest dictatorship the world has ever seen (if you include the number of inhabitants) are allowed to compete in a free market (a free market that they do not allow in their own country). Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: magneto on January 18, 2021, 09:26:58 PM Forget about all the geopolitical tension here. Can we talk about how Alipay has completely taken a beating this year so far?
First the trouble with the Chinese government, the IPO that didn't pan out.... Then now, shut down by the US as well. I do feel bad for the board members who are probably expecting a ton of bonuses and a huge paycheck when the company IPO'd. But this is the perfect example to showcase how fragile the centralised payment processors are - you can never do this to a decentralised network like BTC. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: AndySt on January 18, 2021, 11:00:05 PM Already USA was making investigation on more number of Chinese application that is being used. Earlier itself with the banwog tiktok from India, USA announced its closure of more number of applications for security reason. Now this has been taking effect, as the ruling party is surrendering everything required for the governance. In my opinion, the US should ban all Chinese companies that have anything to do with consumer money transfers and that have nothing to do with financing imports and exports. It cannot be that companies that are virtually under full control of the greatest dictatorship the world has ever seen (if you include the number of inhabitants) are allowed to compete in a free market (a free market that they do not allow in their own country).Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Shasha80 on January 18, 2021, 11:56:17 PM Whoever the president of America will not change policies towards some Chinese companies, If America were already under Biden's leadership
I believe Biden would not have lifted the ban on some Chinese apps. Because America is competing with China to become the strongest producing country. But I see that America is still in control of the world economy, with US dollars circulating around 80% of economic transactions worldwide. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: BigBoy89 on January 19, 2021, 03:19:09 AM I bet that Biden will overturn this and many other of Trump's orders. Some for good, other not so, but they will be overturned.
IMO the next couple of months will be full of surprises. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: 1l1l11ll1l on January 19, 2021, 12:29:13 PM I bet that Biden will overturn this and many other of Trump's orders. Some for good, other not so, but they will be overturned. IMO the next couple of months will be full of surprises. It won't be easy for Biden. Already a section of the media accuses him of being pro-China. His son, Hunter Biden is being accused of receiving bribes from the Chinese Communist Party. Under these circumstances, it will be politically risky for Biden to undertake any steps that can be interpreted as pro-China. He may chose to wait for a few more months at least with these rulings. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Miaallen on January 19, 2021, 03:17:27 PM One will believe overturning the ban will be part of the actions Trump's administration made that Joe Biden will reverse. Remember Joe Biden promised to start working from the first day in office by signing some Executive orders to overturn some Trump's policies. It would not be a surprise to see the ban on those payments service providers as part of it.
Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: kolbalish on January 19, 2021, 04:34:25 PM It is unspecified at this time what Biden will do after leaving Trump his post. Because Biden's son is in trouble with China, it persists to be glimpsed what strides he will snatch. But the way China is being remodeled and its strategies are all hidden. So if Biden prefers to conserve America ahead of China, he must speculate twice and take the proper efforts.
Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Twentyonepaylots on January 19, 2021, 09:16:47 PM Biden being much more sound-minded than Trump is would probabky see through the mistake of banning these payment channels and appkicwhich could've given them enough revenue. It's up to him if he were to lift the bans or still impose them.
One will believe overturning the ban will be part of the actions Trump's administration made that Joe Biden will reverse. Remember Joe Biden promised to start working from the first day in office by signing some Executive orders to overturn some Trump's policies. It would not be a surprise to see the ban on those payments service providers as part of it. Probably. It's a bit minor so it does not rely take a lot of consideration and we are pretty much sure that Trump did this out of spite when he could not get his China (no pun intended). That being said I'd expect this to happen. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Twinkledoe on January 19, 2021, 09:31:39 PM Biden being much more sound-minded than Trump is would probabky see through the mistake of banning these payment channels and appkicwhich could've given them enough revenue. It's up to him if he were to lift the bans or still impose them. One will believe overturning the ban will be part of the actions Trump's administration made that Joe Biden will reverse. Remember Joe Biden promised to start working from the first day in office by signing some Executive orders to overturn some Trump's policies. It would not be a surprise to see the ban on those payments service providers as part of it. Probably. It's a bit minor so it does not rely take a lot of consideration and we are pretty much sure that Trump did this out of spite when he could not get his China (no pun intended). That being said I'd expect this to happen. I guess some of those Chinese payment apps are being used also by some Americans to pay on those e-commerce sites. We can't deny the fact that a lot of Chinese products are being used in all parts of the world. And sometimes, the only option is to buy their cheap product just to address our needs. Even crypto miners are getting their parts and equipment from China. So yeah, I believe Biden will overturn some of those policies. If it will affect their economy or its citizens, then he will surely make action on these policies. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: DrBeer on January 19, 2021, 10:24:56 PM Observing the history of Trump's presidency, there is a strong opinion that his key goal was total sabotage within the United States. From economic to social! True, this is all under the auspices of "good deeds". True, after the outbreak of protests and the epidemic, Trump began to take some steps without even hiding ... I hope that the change of president will lead to stabilization of the situation in the United States and in some other places :)
Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Sithara007 on January 20, 2021, 03:10:07 AM Yes, a lot has happened with his son, and I don't think Biden will be strict with China. although the USA and China are currently competing in various sectors, I just can't see Biden capable of being tough on China. Let's see in the next few months how the regulations will work The mainstream media tried to hid the news on Hunter Biden. Social media platforms such as Twitter immediately deleted any posts even remotely related to the story. Without such help from the media, it would have turned in to a major controversy and could have destroyed Biden's chances, given how close was the election in some of the swing states such as Georgia, Wisconsin and Arizona. Title: Re: Trump bans Alipay and seven other Chinese apps Post by: Princejebs on January 20, 2021, 01:30:37 PM I do not think that the new administration will cancel these decisions from the first day, they can be used to make better negotiation with China in the event that there is a need for more negotiation, but I do not think that Biden would go in this way. The decisions represent a serious voice regarding the expansion of China in many technical, and few Americans use it. I like China with one objective, ones they see opportunities in a nation, they make sure they milk from that country just like give and take. It currently happening in Africa and they always have their way because they borrowed them to create railways and take back their minerals. Now, this is USA, they are another smart individual who want to takes and dislike anyone who want to milk from them. I love trump decisions about those limitations but his political greediness has fail the country in the last few years. |