Bitcoin Forum

what's happened.
Scam on Paradice.in.
I have been betting on Faucet's BTC and have been denied withdrawal.
Withdrawal history imagehttps://imgur.com/a/gU5YC9n (https://imgur.com/a/gU5YC9n)

Scammer profile linkhttps://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1695987 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1695987)
Reference linkhttps://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5206291.460 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5206291.460)


I was playing on a website called Paradise.in.
I was playing with a faucet and got 0.12 BTC so I tried to withdraw.
A common question was that the transfer would be completed within up to 48 hours, so I waited for it, but the transfer didn't happen and I contacted live support.
Next, supporter Alex asked, "How did you get 0.12 BTC?" And to be honest, "I bet the faucet BTC on the dice."
After that, I didn't get a reply and couldn't support the live performance.
Therefore, I contacted support on a regular basis.
Then I got a reply,
"Hello because we were attracted you a lot. Since the money from your account in our misuse of the casino has not been detected, we have refused to your drawer. It is a good day! John."
I was told.
I don't remember misusing it, so I asked why I couldn't withdraw and how I could withdraw.
"No, I can't withdraw. I haven't made a deposit, so I haven't lost anything."
After that, I asked him why he did so, but he didn't reply.
So I asked him why he refused to withdraw because there was a Paradise.in forum.
Of course, the terms of use and frequently asked questions at that time did not mean that you could not withdraw money unless you deposited it anywhere, and there were no withdrawal restrictions.
It can't be helped if it was written, but it wasn't written.
Of course, I didn't say that I couldn't withdraw the bonus funds.
I was suspected of using a BOT.
There is no such fact.
Then he said that the abuse of the faucet was the next problem.
Then I asked if you could give me a definition of what the abuse of the faucet is.
Ignore it and this is the reply.
I think he's looking for some reason why he can't pull out.
What do you think, guys?
Isn't it the same as a scam to not try to withdraw for some reason?

How did you get the 0.12 BTC exactly? You collect faucet and then played with the faucet income and won 0.12 BTC? If that's the case, you have every right to claim your 0.12 BTC unless they have clearly mentioned somewhere that you need deposit to withdraw (I think it should not be a rule if gambling site offers faucet).
Can you please ask the accused user to reply here?

Yes, I bet the BTC I got from the faucet and got 0.12 BTC.
At the time of applying for withdrawal, the deposit required for withdrawal was not written.
Now he says he abuses the faucet and tries not to pull it out for that reason.
Faucet abuse is mentioned, but the definition of abuse is unclear.
I think the abuse is getting a faucet with multiple accounts, a system malfunction, or fraud.
In my case, it is said to be 100 times in total and it is rejected.
Another person was told about 80 times.

Okay, it’s your statement. I have pmed the accused account to have a response here. If what you have said is true, you will either get the amount withdrawn or DT member will hopefully tag the account as scammer.
Let's see if he responds here or not.

sorry.
I didn't know much because I hadn't filed a fraudulent charge here.
Thank you. That helps a lot.

This person have systematically played faucet funds (our faucet is only 25 sats) during the DDOS attack of our servers

While it's unclear to me as account manager if it affected the LightSpeed bets of this person, which he placed a total of 1810488 bets (In each bet house deducts 1% house fee)

All we can offer to this person is a withdrawable $100 for information he provided in ticket as we previously agreed in main topic.

He already withdrawn $200 in 2 $100 transactions which we see as attempt to bypass our abuse detection system by making smaller withdrawals.


It's sad to see such an aggressive campaign of supporters of other gimbling websites against us, really makes us wonder if Bitcointalk became some sort of lobby for big projects. Even the staff member with competitor casino signature have stepped up to stop our promotional campaign.

Still though, we stand on a principle of not letting to stress us into giving free money either if it was a recent DDOS attackers demanding money, hackers threating to break website demanding cash, or a potential faucet abuser demanding unreasonable amount of money without risking anything.


In our understanding, Faucet Abuse is defined by a systematic use of bonuses to get a large advantage over the gambling house. This person have admitted in previous posts in our main thread that he uses other website faucets, hes friends do too, and judging from the faucet and bet logs he had a system. He used the full amount of faucets, pumped the VIP rank by making tens of millions of low risk bets, tried to split hes withdrawal in several smaller withdrawals to bypass our abuse detection system.

We believe that we are on the right side in that conflict, and we have bonus abuse.

"Any attempts of faucet abuse will be subject to an evaluation by the support team." is clearly written in our website documentation.

@Cratoon, if you are completely certain that he abused your system and can prove it than you don't owe him anything. If he cheated why are you offering him a $100? Just lock his account.
If you can't prove he was cheating, you have to pay him in full or at least talk with him and try to reach a compromise.

Also, can you, please, explain what do you mean by this:

See, the thing is we discussed with him (in our main topic) that we are willing to offer $100 bonus if he explains how he was betting to analyze the situation.
He filled his part of the deal by sending us a support ticket (although no useful information was presented in it), so that's where the number comes from.

I've said many times that I didn't use bots or tools.
First of all, I don't have such knowledge.

You said that, but I didn't expect it to be added to Paradise.in's wallet, so I said I didn't need $ 100 if I wasn't sure if I could withdraw it.

I did withdraw $ 100 twice.
At that time, there were no withdrawal conditions regarding bonuses (faucet), and there were no withdrawal restrictions if no deposit was made.

However, I had withdrawn about two weeks ago.
That was before I heard about $ 100.
I think there is no problem because the withdrawal restrictions have been set recently.
And in the FAQ on his website
"A faucet is a kind of regular bonus that you can receive multiple times a day. The amount of bonus you can receive from a faucet depends on your VIP rank. The basic amount of a faucet bonus is per 24 hours. It is 10.

To get the faucet according to the bonus page, select a coin and click "Get Bonus". The balance of this coin type must be zero.

Only one account and IP subnet can be used for the faucet. If you do not receive the bonus, it means that you have another Paradise account on your IP or subnet.

Attempts to abuse the faucet are subject to evaluation by the support team. "
This is written.

In this style, I thought I was being abused when trying to use Faucet with multiple accounts.

Also, there was no definition of abuse, so the administrator can make the decision on the fly.
For example, you can determine for yourself that you have used Faucet 10 times and abuse it.

Reading the situation, I can say, the luck is on OP's side by winning that amount just by using faucets.
This is the importance of having a comprehensive ToS, including the use of faucets as well as withdrawal requirements.
Paradice has been here for long already and it is the first time to read such an accusation to them.
Hopefully, both parties will reach to a settlement here. But wondering also how the OP can gain such amount just by using the faucet?

I can't believe it either.
Prior to the revision, there were no withdrawal conditions or caps.
Of course, there was faucet abuse, but nothing else was related to withdrawing bonuses.

I didn't expect to get this much.

I don't want to derail this topic, but just to clarify this issue.
As @Jawhead999 reported here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5236143.msg56599621#msg56599621), your "promotional campaign" was to hire an army of newbie accounts to comment on your ANN topic and in turn offered bonuses on your site, which is a violation of the rules of this forum. So, if I were you, I wouldn't play the victim card here.

I don't think someone who playing with faucet then turned it to 0.12 btc and even reached VIP rank just by betting with faucet can be considered as faucet abuse. If OP were playing with multiple accounts, claimed faucet simultaneously with their alt accounts on same IP, I would call that faucet abuse.

Our marketing manager was unaware of every rule in the great book of bitcointalk rules, so there might have been a misunderstanding.
We do have a big and supportive community, but only 1 in a 100 of them heard of bitcointalk. Our marketing manager believed that we can give  bonuses for reviews of our website

Regarding the situation nonetheless after analyzing the players statistics we define this players behavior as bonus abuse, and since our automatic system have stopped these withdrawals -- they are cancelled, as the player's account was banned from using game services.

It's really odd how we are being accused of fraud, when the person didn't give us any money, didn't risk anything, and was using systematic faucet abuse during DDOS attack to his advantage.
If we're going to play words -- definition of fraud means "wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain." while we believe we're the ones getting decepted by a bonus abuse on part of this player. We didn't intentionally decepted this person into using our services. We don't try to scam this user into our financial gain. Some can call it cutting losses from systematic abuse of our bonus system by parties of well organized faucet collectors with well thought out strategies to claim bonuses and withdraw large amounts. This system was added to one of our updates a long time ago, so it wasn't a manual "switch" based on someone's personal decision. It went down like this: The system detected it based on it's algorithms (we suspect this player tried to bypass them by making 2 small transactions), then we started reviewing what happened, a  short after the player started pushing us with this forum to resolve it to his benefit as quickly as possible.

Although we always valued our reputation on this forum, so far we don't see likely that we will resolve it at the benefit of  said player.

So is your excuse over?
At least you wrote in the main topic that you had a DDOS attack today on March 11th in forum time, right?
You say I made a DDOS attack and made money in the meantime, but can you stop telling lies and pretending to be true?
I started betting on the dice between March 8th and March 9th.
Also, the withdrawal application has been completed on the 9th.
The time of the forum is different from where I live, but even if it happened on March 11th and the time difference is taken into consideration, it does not happen on March 9th.
It's March 10th at the latest.
And you seem to have disabled my account, so I'm sure this dispute will never end.
What are you going to divert by saying the definition of fraud?
At that time, I divided the withdrawal into two parts only because I set the balance standard and exceeded it.
And you had a problem with faucets in the past, right?
Why didn't you abolish the faucet or set the withdrawal amount at that time?
"1CaX9mbPZkK26YRzK42kE34RHWPnU39Ni"
This is the wallet address of the Paradise you have deposited.
There may be others, but not many people are withdrawing a lot of money.
And you also send a fee to your address, right?
Isn't this a scam to others?

I emphasize that you are not depositing,
It says you should deposit or balance with the bonus, right?

Besides, it would be a disadvantage, so I thought I would stop saying this ...
I don't understand English at all. You may be wondering how I'm talking about this, but I'm all using translations.
Do you think such a person can attack BOT or DDOS?
Isn't all such software in English?
And you should stop lying.

Come on man, why are you twisting my words?

Again, the decision is based on our anti-abuse algorithms, and we stand by it.

We see this activity as faucet abuse, as the player had a system that he exploited to gain huge benefit.

He doesn't go empty handed as he withdrawn $200 with small transactions (as wee see it to bypass abuse detection) and hes behavior is same to faucet abusers that create multiple accounts to abuse the system. Now, it's easy to mask multi-account with various methods, so we can't tell if this is hes only account. Still, we stand by our decision and believe that allegations against us are illegitimate.

The account was blocked, as we detected the faucet abuse from said user. We remain right to decline our game services due to fact of bonus abuse without deposit.

I'm not twisted
It sounds like your remarks are making a DDOS attack and making money in the meantime.
Does it mean BOT or Tool?
Unfortunately, there is no such system.
Please do not decide for yourself.
Do you think it's okay to make a big profit?
It is not banned on your site.
If you use BOT or a tool that is easy to win, it will be recognized as an abuse, but it is not illegal because you are not using it.

There was no minimum withdrawal amount, and I don't think it matters if you divide it into multiple times.
Whether it is being abused or not.
Of course that wasn't the case.
When I exceeded the set balance, I said withdraw.
Unfortunately, it's my only account.
It is a violation for multiple people to log in with one account, and even friends and family cannot teach money-related accounts.
I don't want to have financial troubles.
It emphasizes "no deposit", but the deposit is not related to the abuse of the bonus.
I think "abuse of bonuses" is enough.

And that's not the faucet abuse you say.
I don't use it systematically
In a previous post on the main thread, he said, "Some of my friends are making money."
I'm not saying "I'm making money".
It's the first time I've earned from Faucet.
So I don't think it should be intentional or organized.
Besides, I said that 7,000 $ is out of the question, but I think the people involved have decided on their own.
It doesn't cheat, doesn't use bots or tools, and doesn't fall under faucet abuse.
Do you still have something?

And you said you didn't make a deposit in the past, right?
There was no FAQ instruction on your website that you had to make a deposit.
He also refused to withdraw because he played with bonus money.
Where was such a rule?
How many excuses are you looking for why you can't withdraw?
Isn't that a strange story?
Paradice.in's rules do not prohibit withdrawal, but withdrawals refuse to withdraw at their own discretion and prejudice, so you make various excuses like this, right?

In my oppinion playing daily faucets without ever making a deposit is a clear case of faucet abuse  ( I'm not associated in any way with paradice)  and I suppose it's up to the casino if they'd like to pay out the amount or not , but in general faucets and other freebies for sites are used to motivate regular depositing players  , and not freebie hunters.

To give an example ,  I'm a player on duckdice ,  and they've paid out a 100000$  faucet win to a regular player  and in the same time denying  some 50-100 $ withdrawals to some   faucet hunters who were there to only milk the freebies.

The faucet of Paradice.in is special, and even if there is one Satoshi in the BTC balance, the faucet cannot be used.
Of course, even if you have a balance of 1 Satoshi, you cannot use the faucets of other currencies such as ETH and DOGE.
When you make a deposit, you cannot actually use the faucet.
If you use Faucet, you must either not deposit or zero all your balances.
In that case, I think it's okay to eliminate the faucet itself.
It seems that there was a problem with the faucet in the past, but I just reduced the number I got.

Probably they should mention in their terms if they are going to deny such withdrawals, and OP here used to bet with the faucet money and got huge luck on his side that is why he made $7000 from zero which is not really abuse and even no site can deny such withdrawals or should never allow anyone to claim the faucets and bonus who never deposited any money into their account.

The purpose of casino adding faucet on their casino is to test the game on his casino to prove legitimate fairness of the websites, but I don't see why they need to use top coin that has a value instead of worthless coin. They should aware if someone can hit high multiplier, even though the chance is only 2% it doesn't mean it will be impossible to hit. Also, this kind of "faucet abuse" is not a new thing on casino, we were already this kind problem in the past and it result become a drama.

Of course playing with faucet or free money on gambling is not risking anything, casino isn't a charity and they make money when people are loss. He's didn't risking any money to play, but he put a lot dedication and time to hit the high multiplier. He's lucky enough to win $7000 only with faucet. But in the end, you will faced this problem if you win big amount money with faucet.

AFAIK on this websites didn't even stated a rules of faucet abuse and withdrawal limit if the user play with faucet, after this accusations this casino updated his terms.




Updating Terms of Service and confiscated big winning funds from a player isn't show how good your responsibility to solve the case instead of setting up new rules and blaming the player. In my opinion you need to pay fully amount that the player has won since he didn't do anything wrong with multi account, cheating bonus with alt account etc. Or probably you don't have sufficient bankroll to pay?

---

Tagged the account, if anything goes wrong I may revise my feedback.

We see your negative feedback on our account, however

1. We did not change this line on our website, it was there since several months ago.
2. In your feedback you don't mention faucet abuse and that the player have been playing bonus funds, not the ones he deposited.

3. We see your feedback as preconceived, as you are a manager of another crypto gambling website.
Dog eat dog kind of space here, innit?

The feedback left by Jawhead999 doesn't mention the faucet, but your website doesn't say that you shouldn't play the bonus fund or that you're violating it if you don't make a deposit.
And on your website,
It also says, "Faucet is a kind of regular bonus that you can receive multiple times a day."
Is there any contradiction because I admit that I can receive it many times every day?
He will not reply if it becomes inconvenient.
Paradise.in, which has such a person, offers only the worst service.

1 & 2. Definition of faucet abuse is too general, each people has it own definition to explain about faucet abuse. As you didn't stated specific rules on the faucet abuse part, some of your marketing strategies and TOS implied "able to take profit/win from bonus (faucet and rain)".



3. Wrong, I'm not a manager of that's casino. Dog eat dog? So I should keep close my eyes and walk away when I saw someone doings wrong?

Oh! Let's take a break for a sec and take a look at the Cambridge Dictionary! According to the Book, Fraud means the crime of getting money by deceiving people. And Scam is an illegal way of making money, usually by tricking people.

Did we made even a single penny by deceiving this player? Sure we didn't.

It's good question: who is the victim here?

Once again. There was a faucet abuse. Casino management decided to reject this payment in conformity with our TOS. This is the final decision, and it is not a subject to change.

If I had deposited at least one penny, would I have pulled it out?
To deceive is to lie and make you think it is true.
And you tricked me into hiding your $ 7,000 balance in your wallet, right?

Good answer: I am.

once again.
It does not correspond to the unauthorized use of the faucet you say.

I would still like to hear what kind of abuse is that actually about?
Did he break any company's terms of use? Which ones?
Did he use a bot or multiple accounts? Was there a bug or a glitch on the website?

I'm sure a lot of the potential players would like to know that so they don't end up in the same situation.

Read above my post including few user quotes, it's clear stated you're allowing people to gamble with bonus and no rules about withdrawing bonuses winning.

You're just want to hide your fault with "I reserve the right to add/change the rules any time and any condition"

Flag type 3 has been created, I suggest to support it https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=2675

You can see that they aren't willing to pay because they change the terms as they like, even though I haven't broken the terms on their website!
You probably don't have a license because you do this kind of thing, right? lol