[Solved]Paradice.in fraud accusation

[pippipipipi]

what's happened.
Scam on Paradice.in.
I have been betting on Faucet's BTC and have been denied withdrawal.
Withdrawal history imagehttps://imgur.com/a/gU5YC9n

Scammer profile linkhttps://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1695987
Reference linkhttps://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5206291.460


I was playing on a website called Paradise.in.
I was playing with a faucet and got 0.12 BTC so I tried to withdraw.
A common question was that the transfer would be completed within up to 48 hours, so I waited for it, but the transfer didn't happen and I contacted live support.
Next, supporter Alex asked, "How did you get 0.12 BTC?" And to be honest, "I bet the faucet BTC on the dice."
After that, I didn't get a reply and couldn't support the live performance.
Therefore, I contacted support on a regular basis.
Then I got a reply,
"Hello because we were attracted you a lot. Since the money from your account in our misuse of the casino has not been detected, we have refused to your drawer. It is a good day! John."
I was told.
I don't remember misusing it, so I asked why I couldn't withdraw and how I could withdraw.
"No, I can't withdraw. I haven't made a deposit, so I haven't lost anything."
After that, I asked him why he did so, but he didn't reply.
So I asked him why he refused to withdraw because there was a Paradise.in forum.

Well if you haven't deposited anything, you haven't lost anything either, innit?

We do withdrawals of bonus winnings, but giving away $7000 with no deposit is insane for any gambling website. And our assumption is that you used some clever bot techniques to acheive this amount, when our faucet gives like 25 satoshi at the moment that is barely possible.

If you have deposited at least $100 -- that would have been a different story, but since you have no deposits we have moral right to not process your $7000 withdrawal.

I understand your frustration, and of course I wouldn't like to get in the same situation with false hope.

However we still reserve our right to refuse your withdrawal, as you used bonus demo funds to play our game.

Of course, the terms of use and frequently asked questions at that time did not mean that you could not withdraw money unless you deposited it anywhere, and there were no withdrawal restrictions.
It can't be helped if it was written, but it wasn't written.
Of course, I didn't say that I couldn't withdraw the bonus funds.
I was suspected of using a BOT.
There is no such fact.

Hello!

As we discussed previously, we had to do a check on faucet abuse from your side.

Although we didn't have specific rules on withdrawal from bonuses at that point, we see your disproportional withdrawal of $7000 without any deposit as faucet abuse.
We assume that you use casino  bonuses as a source of income, by farming bonuses at various places.

We will reward you $100, this is as much as we can got for free bonus farming, although we could have reserved the right to cancel your withdrawal completely because clearly you used bonus system to your advantage, and not for a demonstrational purposes as it was intended to be used when we created it.

We understand your frustration, but just try putting yourself in our shoes and think if it will be appropriate to see you as a client, and not a bonus abuser.

With all due respect, please refrain from accusing us of scam as we have great reputation with our clients, while we don't tolerate bonus abuse of any kind.
Although we didn't have "$100 maw withdrawal from bonuses without deposit" policy at that time, we had a point about faucet abuse in our T&S.

I hope that other projects will treat you better, as clearly you do have a system for gathering large money from bonuses.

Then he said that the abuse of the faucet was the next problem.
Then I asked if you could give me a definition of what the abuse of the faucet is.
Ignore it and this is the reply.

Well, we disagree. Clearly, you were systematically using bonus system to gain large benefit and not using it for test-play as it was intended to be used.

While we process small amounts of withdrawals from bonus wins, the $7000 is out of the question. That is our position.

It seems like you don't want $100 either.


FYI  this person used bonus about 100 times doing it every day systematically, then he went into LightSpeed mode placing total of 1810488 bets to pump his VIP rank towards the reward which he used to pump that amount in LightSpeed accessible for our higher VIP ranks.

We still haven't checked if this is hes only account, as we have a lot on our hands lately.

I think he's looking for some reason why he can't pull out.
What do you think, guys?
Isn't it the same as a scam to not try to withdraw for some reason?

[Little Mouse]

How did you get the 0.12 BTC exactly? You collect faucet and then played with the faucet income and won 0.12 BTC? If that's the case, you have every right to claim your 0.12 BTC unless they have clearly mentioned somewhere that you need deposit to withdraw (I think it should not be a rule if gambling site offers faucet).
Can you please ask the accused user to reply here?

[pippipipipi]

How did you get the 0.12 BTC exactly? You collect faucet and then played with the faucet income and won 0.12 BTC? If that's the case, you have every right to claim your 0.12 BTC unless they have clearly mentioned somewhere that you need deposit to withdraw (I think it should not be a rule if gambling site offers faucet).
Can you please ask the accused user to reply here?

Yes, I bet the BTC I got from the faucet and got 0.12 BTC.
At the time of applying for withdrawal, the deposit required for withdrawal was not written.
Now he says he abuses the faucet and tries not to pull it out for that reason.
Faucet abuse is mentioned, but the definition of abuse is unclear.
I think the abuse is getting a faucet with multiple accounts, a system malfunction, or fraud.
In my case, it is said to be 100 times in total and it is rejected.
Another person was told about 80 times.

[Little Mouse]

Okay, it’s your statement. I have pmed the accused account to have a response here. If what you have said is true, you will either get the amount withdrawn or DT member will hopefully tag the account as scammer.
Let's see if he responds here or not.

[pippipipipi]

Okay, it’s your statement. I have pmed the accused account to have a response here. If what you have said is true, you will either get the amount withdrawn or DT member will hopefully tag the account as scammer.
Let's see if he responds here or not.

sorry.
I didn't know much because I hadn't filed a fraudulent charge here.
Thank you. That helps a lot.

[Cratoon]

This person have systematically played faucet funds (our faucet is only 25 sats) during the DDOS attack of our servers

While it's unclear to me as account manager if it affected the LightSpeed bets of this person, which he placed a total of 1810488 bets (In each bet house deducts 1% house fee)

All we can offer to this person is a withdrawable $100 for information he provided in ticket as we previously agreed in main topic.

He already withdrawn $200 in 2 $100 transactions which we see as attempt to bypass our abuse detection system by making smaller withdrawals.


It's sad to see such an aggressive campaign of supporters of other gimbling websites against us, really makes us wonder if Bitcointalk became some sort of lobby for big projects. Even the staff member with competitor casino signature have stepped up to stop our promotional campaign.

Still though, we stand on a principle of not letting to stress us into giving free money either if it was a recent DDOS attackers demanding money, hackers threating to break website demanding cash, or a potential faucet abuser demanding unreasonable amount of money without risking anything.

Faucet abuse is mentioned, but the definition of abuse is unclear.

In our understanding, Faucet Abuse is defined by a systematic use of bonuses to get a large advantage over the gambling house. This person have admitted in previous posts in our main thread that he uses other website faucets, hes friends do too, and judging from the faucet and bet logs he had a system. He used the full amount of faucets, pumped the VIP rank by making tens of millions of low risk bets, tried to split hes withdrawal in several smaller withdrawals to bypass our abuse detection system.

We believe that we are on the right side in that conflict, and we have bonus abuse.

"Any attempts of faucet abuse will be subject to an evaluation by the support team." is clearly written in our website documentation.

[khaled0111]

@Cratoon, if you are completely certain that he abused your system and can prove it than you don't owe him anything. If he cheated why are you offering him a $100? Just lock his account.
If you can't prove he was cheating, you have to pay him in full or at least talk with him and try to reach a compromise.

Also, can you, please, explain what do you mean by this:

Well if you haven't deposited anything, you haven't lost anything either, innit?

[Cratoon]

@Cratoon, if you are completely certain that he abused your system and can prove it than you don't owe him anything. If he cheated why are you offering him a $100? Just lock his account.
If you can't prove he was cheating, you have to pay him in full or at least talk with him and try to reach a compromise.

Also, can you, please, explain what do you mean by this:

Well if you haven't deposited anything, you haven't lost anything either, innit?

See, the thing is we discussed with him (in our main topic) that we are willing to offer $100 bonus if he explains how he was betting to analyze the situation.
He filled his part of the deal by sending us a support ticket (although no useful information was presented in it), so that's where the number comes from.

[pippipipipi]

I've said many times that I didn't use bots or tools.
First of all, I don't have such knowledge.

Can you kindly make a ticket in our support system, telling us about your play strategy? If you used bots, what were the configurations?

We will reward you with a $100 worth of crypto of your choice.

You said that, but I didn't expect it to be added to Paradise.in's wallet, so I said I didn't need $ 100 if I wasn't sure if I could withdraw it.

I did withdraw $ 100 twice.
At that time, there were no withdrawal conditions regarding bonuses (faucet), and there were no withdrawal restrictions if no deposit was made.

However, I had withdrawn about two weeks ago.
That was before I heard about $ 100.
I think there is no problem because the withdrawal restrictions have been set recently.
And in the FAQ on his website
"A faucet is a kind of regular bonus that you can receive multiple times a day. The amount of bonus you can receive from a faucet depends on your VIP rank. The basic amount of a faucet bonus is per 24 hours. It is 10.

To get the faucet according to the bonus page, select a coin and click "Get Bonus". The balance of this coin type must be zero.

Only one account and IP subnet can be used for the faucet. If you do not receive the bonus, it means that you have another Paradise account on your IP or subnet.

Attempts to abuse the faucet are subject to evaluation by the support team. "
This is written.

In this style, I thought I was being abused when trying to use Faucet with multiple accounts.

Also, there was no definition of abuse, so the administrator can make the decision on the fly.
For example, you can determine for yourself that you have used Faucet 10 times and abuse it.

[TimeTeller]

@Cratoon, if you are completely certain that he abused your system and can prove it than you don't owe him anything. If he cheated why are you offering him a $100? Just lock his account.
If you can't prove he was cheating, you have to pay him in full or at least talk with him and try to reach a compromise.

Also, can you, please, explain what do you mean by this:

Well if you haven't deposited anything, you haven't lost anything either, innit?

See, the thing is we discussed with him (in our main topic) that we are willing to offer $100 bonus if he explains how he was betting to analyze the situation.
He filled his part of the deal by sending us a support ticket (although no useful information was presented in it), so that's where the number comes from.

Reading the situation, I can say, the luck is on OP's side by winning that amount just by using faucets.
This is the importance of having a comprehensive ToS, including the use of faucets as well as withdrawal requirements.
Paradice has been here for long already and it is the first time to read such an accusation to them.
Hopefully, both parties will reach to a settlement here. But wondering also how the OP can gain such amount just by using the faucet?

[pippipipipi]

Reading the situation, I can say, the luck is on OP's side by winning that amount just by using faucets.
This is the importance of having a comprehensive ToS, including the use of faucets as well as withdrawal requirements.
Paradice has been here for long already and it is the first time to read such an accusation to them.
Hopefully, both parties will reach to a settlement here. But wondering also how the OP can gain such amount just by using the faucet?

I can't believe it either.
Prior to the revision, there were no withdrawal conditions or caps.
Of course, there was faucet abuse, but nothing else was related to withdrawing bonuses.

I didn't expect to get this much.

[Stalker22]

Even the staff member with competitor casino signature have stepped up to stop our promotional campaign.
<snip>

I don't want to derail this topic, but just to clarify this issue.
As @Jawhead999 reported here, your "promotional campaign" was to hire an army of newbie accounts to comment on your ANN topic and in turn offered bonuses on your site, which is a violation of the rules of this forum. So, if I were you, I wouldn't play the victim card here.

[janggernaut]

Faucet abuse is mentioned, but the definition of abuse is unclear.

In our understanding, Faucet Abuse is defined by a systematic use of bonuses to get a large advantage over the gambling house. This person have admitted in previous posts in our main thread that he uses other website faucets, hes friends do too, and judging from the faucet and bet logs he had a system. He used the full amount of faucets, pumped the VIP rank by making tens of millions of low risk bets, tried to split hes withdrawal in several smaller withdrawals to bypass our abuse detection system.

I don't think someone who playing with faucet then turned it to 0.12 btc and even reached VIP rank just by betting with faucet can be considered as faucet abuse. If OP were playing with multiple accounts, claimed faucet simultaneously with their alt accounts on same IP, I would call that faucet abuse.

[Cratoon]

Even the staff member with competitor casino signature have stepped up to stop our promotional campaign.
<snip>

I don't want to derail this topic, but just to clarify this issue.
As @Jawhead999 reported here, your "promotional campaign" was to hire an army of newbie accounts to comment on your ANN topic and in turn offered bonuses on your site, which is a violation of the rules of this forum. So, if I were you, I wouldn't play the victim card here.

Our marketing manager was unaware of every rule in the great book of bitcointalk rules, so there might have been a misunderstanding.
We do have a big and supportive community, but only 1 in a 100 of them heard of bitcointalk. Our marketing manager believed that we can give  bonuses for reviews of our website

Regarding the situation nonetheless after analyzing the players statistics we define this players behavior as bonus abuse, and since our automatic system have stopped these withdrawals -- they are cancelled, as the player's account was banned from using game services.

It's really odd how we are being accused of fraud, when the person didn't give us any money, didn't risk anything, and was using systematic faucet abuse during DDOS attack to his advantage.
If we're going to play words -- definition of fraud means "wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain." while we believe we're the ones getting decepted by a bonus abuse on part of this player. We didn't intentionally decepted this person into using our services. We don't try to scam this user into our financial gain. Some can call it cutting losses from systematic abuse of our bonus system by parties of well organized faucet collectors with well thought out strategies to claim bonuses and withdraw large amounts. This system was added to one of our updates a long time ago, so it wasn't a manual "switch" based on someone's personal decision. It went down like this: The system detected it based on it's algorithms (we suspect this player tried to bypass them by making 2 small transactions), then we started reviewing what happened, a  short after the player started pushing us with this forum to resolve it to his benefit as quickly as possible.

Although we always valued our reputation on this forum, so far we don't see likely that we will resolve it at the benefit of  said player.

[pippipipipi]

So is your excuse over?
At least you wrote in the main topic that you had a DDOS attack today on March 11th in forum time, right?

Today our website was unavailable for a few hours due to DDOs attacks from some pesky wannabe mafioso, demanding payment to stop the DDOS attack.

We didn't fall for that scam, and refused to pay, because in our opinion it only provides the wannabe hacker with funds to target another projects.

Now the website functions as usual, so everyone is welcome to drop by and place a few bets.

You say I made a DDOS attack and made money in the meantime, but can you stop telling lies and pretending to be true?
I started betting on the dice between March 8th and March 9th.
Also, the withdrawal application has been completed on the 9th.
The time of the forum is different from where I live, but even if it happened on March 11th and the time difference is taken into consideration, it does not happen on March 9th.
It's March 10th at the latest.
And you seem to have disabled my account, so I'm sure this dispute will never end.
What are you going to divert by saying the definition of fraud?
At that time, I divided the withdrawal into two parts only because I set the balance standard and exceeded it.
And you had a problem with faucets in the past, right?
Why didn't you abolish the faucet or set the withdrawal amount at that time?
"1CaX9mbPZkK26YRzK42kE34RHWPnU39Ni"
This is the wallet address of the Paradise you have deposited.
There may be others, but not many people are withdrawing a lot of money.
And you also send a fee to your address, right?
Isn't this a scam to others?

[pippipipipi]

I emphasize that you are not depositing,
It says you should deposit or balance with the bonus, right?

Besides, it would be a disadvantage, so I thought I would stop saying this ...
I don't understand English at all. You may be wondering how I'm talking about this, but I'm all using translations.
Do you think such a person can attack BOT or DDOS?
Isn't all such software in English?
And you should stop lying.

[Cratoon]

You say I made a DDOS attack and made money in the meantime, but can you stop telling lies and pretending to be true?

Come on man, why are you twisting my words?

Again, the decision is based on our anti-abuse algorithms, and we stand by it.

We see this activity as faucet abuse, as the player had a system that he exploited to gain huge benefit.

He doesn't go empty handed as he withdrawn $200 with small transactions (as wee see it to bypass abuse detection) and hes behavior is same to faucet abusers that create multiple accounts to abuse the system. Now, it's easy to mask multi-account with various methods, so we can't tell if this is hes only account. Still, we stand by our decision and believe that allegations against us are illegitimate.

The account was blocked, as we detected the faucet abuse from said user. We remain right to decline our game services due to fact of bonus abuse without deposit.

[pippipipipi]

Come on man, why are you twisting my words?

I'm not twisted

This person have systematically played faucet funds (our faucet is only 25 sats) during the DDOS attack of our servers

While it's unclear to me as account manager if it affected the LightSpeed bets of this person, which he placed a total of 1810488 bets (In each bet house deducts 1% house fee)

It sounds like your remarks are making a DDOS attack and making money in the meantime.

Regarding the situation nonetheless after analyzing the players statistics we define this players behavior as bonus abuse, and since our automatic system have stopped these withdrawals -- they are cancelled, as the player's account was banned from using game services.

It's really odd how we are being accused of fraud, when the person didn't give us any money, didn't risk anything, and was using systematic faucet abuse during DDOS attack to his advantage.

Again, the decision is based on our anti-abuse algorithms, and we stand by it.

We see this activity as faucet abuse, as the player had a system that he exploited to gain huge benefit.

Does it mean BOT or Tool?
Unfortunately, there is no such system.
Please do not decide for yourself.
Do you think it's okay to make a big profit?
It is not banned on your site.
If you use BOT or a tool that is easy to win, it will be recognized as an abuse, but it is not illegal because you are not using it.

He doesn't go empty handed as he withdrawn $200 with small transactions (as wee see it to bypass abuse detection) and hes behavior is same to faucet abusers that create multiple accounts to abuse the system. Now, it's easy to mask multi-account with various methods, so we can't tell if this is hes only account. Still, we stand by our decision and believe that allegations against us are illegitimate.

There was no minimum withdrawal amount, and I don't think it matters if you divide it into multiple times.
Whether it is being abused or not.
Of course that wasn't the case.
When I exceeded the set balance, I said withdraw.
Unfortunately, it's my only account.
It is a violation for multiple people to log in with one account, and even friends and family cannot teach money-related accounts.
I don't want to have financial troubles.

The account was blocked, as we detected the faucet abuse from said user. We remain right to decline our game services due to fact of bonus abuse without deposit.

It emphasizes "no deposit", but the deposit is not related to the abuse of the bonus.
I think "abuse of bonuses" is enough.

In our understanding, Faucet Abuse is defined by a systematic use of bonuses to get a large advantage over the gambling house. This person have admitted in previous posts in our main thread that he uses other website faucets, hes friends do too, and judging from the faucet and bet logs he had a system. He used the full amount of faucets, pumped the VIP rank by making tens of millions of low risk bets, tried to split hes withdrawal in several smaller withdrawals to bypass our abuse detection system.

We believe that we are on the right side in that conflict, and we have bonus abuse.

"Any attempts of faucet abuse will be subject to an evaluation by the support team." is clearly written in our website documentation.

And that's not the faucet abuse you say.
I don't use it systematically

Some of my friends are making money from the faucet.
If you want to avoid such troubles, I think you should explain it to the website.

In a previous post on the main thread, he said, "Some of my friends are making money."
I'm not saying "I'm making money".
It's the first time I've earned from Faucet.
So I don't think it should be intentional or organized.

While we process small amounts of withdrawals from bonus wins, the $7000 is out of the question. That is our position.

Besides, I said that 7,000 $ is out of the question, but I think the people involved have decided on their own.
It doesn't cheat, doesn't use bots or tools, and doesn't fall under faucet abuse.
Do you still have something?

[pippipipipi]

We do withdrawals of bonus winnings, but giving away $7000 with no deposit is insane for any gambling website. And our assumption is that you used some clever bot techniques to acheive this amount, when our faucet gives like 25 satoshi at the moment that is barely possible.

If you have deposited at least $100 -- that would have been a different story, but since you have no deposits we have moral right to not process your $7000 withdrawal.

And you said you didn't make a deposit in the past, right?
There was no FAQ instruction on your website that you had to make a deposit.

I understand your frustration, and of course I wouldn't like to get in the same situation with false hope.

However we still reserve our right to refuse your withdrawal, as you used bonus demo funds to play our game.

He also refused to withdraw because he played with bonus money.
Where was such a rule?
How many excuses are you looking for why you can't withdraw?
Isn't that a strange story?
Paradice.in's rules do not prohibit withdrawal, but withdrawals refuse to withdraw at their own discretion and prejudice, so you make various excuses like this, right?

[AlexSimion]

In my oppinion playing daily faucets without ever making a deposit is a clear case of faucet abuse  ( I'm not associated in any way with paradice)  and I suppose it's up to the casino if they'd like to pay out the amount or not , but in general faucets and other freebies for sites are used to motivate regular depositing players  , and not freebie hunters.

To give an example ,  I'm a player on duckdice ,  and they've paid out a 100000$  faucet win to a regular player  and in the same time denying  some 50-100 $ withdrawals to some   faucet hunters who were there to only milk the freebies.