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We need to start issuing no-vaccine passports. This way we can keep super-spreaders from coming into our establishments and infecting us all. I don't want to fly on a plane with a bunch of super-spreader vaccinated junkies. It's time those of us who think like this start our own companies and organizations, and even property organizations, where these vaccinated killers aren't allowed in.


Vaccinated people are walking biological time bombs and a THREAT to society (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/303595-2021-04-28-vaccinated-people-are-walking-biological-time-bombs-and-a-threat.htm)




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This is one of the reasons people that believe in natural ways like Jet Cash do not recommend these vaccines, it will likely be a way the virus will be hard to deal with by humans, instead to let this be naturally, pharmaceutical companies are getting ways to favour themselves by making more vaccines which might even make human immunity not to be as before.

I believe in staying naturally healthy, sleeping early and having enough rest, eating healthy especially foods and fruits that contain healthy nutrients. Staying natural is the best, like me I am not part and can not be part of them that will take that vaccine, but I am still doing all necessities to avoid the virus.

How are the "super-spreader vaccinated junkies" going to infect "[you] all" if you have such great natural immunity?

3/3 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5329361.msg56752808#msg56752808)  :)

Also bold and red doesn't make it true, you need caps for that.

Seriously though, we know that the data show that the vaccine reduces the likelihood of both infection and transmission. I've posted so many links to professional, expert sources, that are independent of one another, from many different countries around the world, from governments, universities, scientific bodies, etc.
Why would you think that being vaccinated increases the risk of spreading the virus? The thing that increases it is refusing the vaccine, refusing to wears masks and refusing to respect social distancing.


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Edit: Disappointingly, I'm now 3/4 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5329361.msg56752808#msg56752808)... I thought this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5334254.0) was one of yours.

I haven't taken the vaccine, and don't plan on it. I'm young, I'm healthy and the virus at this points kills like .01 of the very old people who get it AND have other health conditions.

This can be a means of increasing human susceptibility to infections, it is not only about the people that did not take the vaccine, it is more about how weak the immunity of the people that take it can be.

It is not about spreading the virus in my opinion, it is about modern ways leading us to having weak immunity which goes beyond spreading the virus, I believe cancer was not as dangerous as is it today if not for the modern ways of life. I like people that like natural ways of life rather than depending on the immune weakening modrmern technologies.

https://i.imgur.com/s7r8Dwh.jpg
https://ourworldindata.org/polio

The first beneficiary is the medical companies that manufacture these vaccines, the owners of these companies have strong relationships with the highest government officials, so they pay politicians to impose these vaccines, innate immunity has proven to be the best, but this of course will not like the pharmaceutical companies, so they will work with corrupt politicians. To impose these vaccines.
There are many people who do not trust such vaccines and refuse to take them, but what if the government insists that they grant you a passport or renew your passport without taking this vaccine? What can be done in such a situation?

Sounds like a hopeless ordeal. Especially when you consider the possibility that the US election was stolen, in cooperation with big tech suppressing scandals that would have hurt Biden.

Oh looks like there is a new conspiracy theory time. I would like to know a few details about you surely. Were you not given any vaccine since birth? Be it Polio, Hepatitis, or anything else? I would be surprised if the answer is no unless you were born in some 4th World Country. So if you happily vaccinated yourself with that and are still alive what is the problem with this vaccine then?

Talking about Natural Immunity I think it does help to a certain extent but the problem is that the healthcare systems of various countries are starting to collapse to give the immune system the necessary medications. The death rates are less than 1% but still, 1% in absolute numbers look huge. Talking about Pharma companies, they are going to earn any way, if they vaccinate you they'll still earn and if they'll not vaccinate you they'll still earn by selling medical equipment and medicines. So I don't think you should be so fanatic about this thing. Moreover, the Super Spreader thing seems too much. Isn't it?

when I read this thread for a few moments I thought: "it is the end of the world, I'm definitely in a mental hospital". it is not possible that you have no relatives or people close to you who have died of covid, you should know how dangerous this disease is... without a vaccine the world would be lost, without a vaccine the world would stop and you are against something that is saving people's lives.

how do you think it would be possible to contain this pandemic without vaccinating people? for tens of years, human beings have used vaccines, used drugs to cure diseases

https://i.imgur.com/CNvrrWU.jpg


 :o :o :o

what the hell is this? so all countries in the world are corrupt and want to kill the entire world population including the government itself. this is a very dangerous reasoning. since you were born without a doubt you must have already had a vaccine or some medication and you are alive. then start accepting that the vaccine is to save people's lives

We do not say that all vaccines are corrupt, we are talking here about the Corona virus vaccine only, then we are not saying that the vaccine is fatal, but rather that we say that the vaccine is useless and we do not know the truth of this vaccine, only neutral specialist doctors can tell us about the truth of this vaccine.
I also do not know why you are surprised when I say that all governments are corrupt. Do you have evidence that they are not?

That's absurd. The vaccine literally helps to build up immunity without taking the risk of actually getting sick with a potentially deadly disease.

Oh yeah? Take a look at this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5333915.msg56892076#msg56892076.

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Yeah. Try it and you'll see.

The Covid vaccine is safe. It will protect you again contracting COVID at a high rate, and will protect you from contracting a serve case of COVID at an even higher rate. Unless you have an extensive circumstance, you should get the COVID vaccine.

I am against censorship, however this thread is not at all good to be having around and contains misinformation.

OP can't be taken seriously, he keeps trolling. He says that people who get vaccinated are going to die from it but I'm still waiting for him to give concrete data:


For him it is safer to pray, that's all there is to it.

I really agree with you, currently the Covid 19 outbreak is very worrying, let us all obey the health protocol regulations to protect each other and prevent its spread. Especially in the State of India the plague spreads quickly and kills the Indian population there.

a injection in the arm with something that does not replicate. does not cause replication and thus spreading from the arm

badecker does not grasp the basics of biology. logic. common sense. fact

I am not sure if he is trolling, he has a lot of pretty extreme viewpoints, and opinions. Obviously, he is very wrong in this case. There is a lot of misinformation out there about Covid and the vaccine, and unfortunately a lot of people believe it.

That way you'll be only thinking of yourself and not about the ones that surround you. You may be strong and healthy and have an extremely low risk of severe cases, but what about the others? Being young doesn't make you less susceptible to the virus, it only helps you to come through this illness easily. But without a vaccine, you may get infected and the virus will replicate actively inside your body, making you a living waking source of the infection. Thus, putting everyone who's around you at risk.

I wanted to say that I enjoyed the title of this thread.

Also, it has some merit to an extent in my opinion.  I strongly believe that the human race is ultimately better off naturally fighting off threats and that certain advances in our medical capabilities may have a negative long term effect on the strength of the human race to fight off potential threats in the future.  We seem to be becoming reliant on our scientific advancements to save us from threats at an increasing rate as a way to avoid being accountable for our own poor decisions and behavior. 

I don't know what you think about the role of vitamin D in all this. There are a lot of articles compiled in:

https://vitamindwiki.com/COVID-19+treated+by+Vitamin+D+-+studies%2C+reports%2C+videos

That it's a website run by a retired engineer, not a doctor, but not a kid writing from his mum's basement either, and he puts links to scientific articles, apart from videos etc.

I used to get colds 2-3 times a year, and the colds lasted quite a while. I say cold including flu or sore throat.  Since I discovered vitamin D like 5 years ago, I have gone to having 0 colds. One a couple of occasions I thought I was starting to get a cold but it didn't last more than 24 hours, and it's a common thing that people who have optimal vitamin D levels say: that they don't get colds and if they do, they don't get them for long and with few symptoms. In principle, those studies linked point out that the same thing would happen with COVID-19.

The pharmaceutical industry is not interested in this because the sun is free and vitamin D as a supplement is cheap and it is not a drug that can only be sold exclusively by the industry, you can buy it in herbalists, for example.

I am yet to see an opinion from BADecker which could be called anything other than "very wrong".

This is not unique to the field of medicine. We depend on scientific advancements to create enough food for us, to supply clean water, to build adequate shelter, to protect us from predators, and so on. Drop the average American in to the middle of the jungle and I would wager they would be dead before they could find drinking water.

The evidence I have seen seems to suggest that a deficiency in vitamin D can make COVID worse, rather than extra vitamin D being protective against COVID, but I haven't spent a huge amount of time reading around this topic. Regardless, the majority of Americans are deficient in vitamin D, especially those in more northern states, and should be taking a vitamin D supplement anyway.

I was just getting ready to respond, and then I read your post, where you pretty much said everything I was going to say :)


This is not new. Photo below of 45,000 year old mammoth bone with spear wound. The history of human civilisation is the history of tool use, is the history of using technological advancements to keep ourselves alive. Vaccines are a triumph of human ingenuity.
http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/SCIENCE/Sopkarginsky-mammoth/inside_jugal_bone.jpg
http://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/features/f233-the-smoking-gun-proving-ancient-man-killed-woolly-mammoth-45000-years-ago/


Yes, moderate supplementation seems like a good idea, especially at higher latitudes. I'm not sure how likely toxicity through overdosing is, but ultra-high dose vitamins aren't a great idea in general.
In the UK, the NHS has been offering (https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk/free-vitamin-d-supplements-for-people-at-high-risk/) free supplementation for Covid high-risk groups. There's also a recent report by the BMJ here (https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n544).

It's worth noting that vitamin D is not a secret magical panacea that is being hidden from us by Big Pharma because it doesn't make them $$$. It's also worth noting in regard to this myth that AZ are providing their vaccine at cost, with no profit motive.
Vitamin D may help against Covid to an extent, and is unlikely to harm unless you're mega-dosing. But it's not the single answer, or even the best answer. Vaccination is the way out of this. And until vaccination is at sufficient levels to provide herd immunity, then masks, social distancing etc are crucial.

I've seen him make merely-half-wrong arguments in the flat earth thread, may it rest in peace. Shockingly he does not subscribe to that particular conspiracy theory - go figure.

From what I've read, it seems like only people with serious Vitamin D deficiency ought to take the supplements. According to this article (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7415009/) from PubMed hospitalized patients with a severe vitamin D deficiency had a much higher mortality probability against the ones that didn't (50% against 5%).

However, everything is not that simple with coronavirus and I strongly encourage people without the deficiency not to take any supplements. Not only due to toxicity, like you pointed out, but because of the virus's peculiar features.

It has been found (https://clinicalhypertension.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40885-020-00147-x) that Vitamin D increases the expression of the ACE2 receptor, which is a binding site for the coronavirus. In other words - there will be more contact points between the cells and the virus, thus, there's a risk of increasing the number of infected cells by making it easier for the virus to penetrate.

People should really be careful with self-treatment, even if it's something as innocent as the vitamins, and consult with professionals.

The thing is that to begin with, vitamin D, although it is so called, is not technically speaking a vitamin, but a prohormone. Overdose toxicity can occur, but you have to take whole bottles every day for it to happen. Sunbathing alone you can't get it.  Also, hypercalcemia, which is the danger of taking high doses of vitamin D, is reversible. It is cured by stopping sunbathing and stopping supplementation. Another thing is that RDAs are very low. 600 IU a day is good for preventing rickets, but not for a stronger immune system. I take between 20K and 30K IU of vitamin D in the winter, which by today's standards is barbaric, and I have noticed nothing but positive effects. No hypercalcemia even going over 100 ng/ml of vitamin D in the blood.


Well, I'm not so sure about that. I have said the opposite of what you are asserting, now I will back it up. Vitamin D has a more unknown role (the best known is to bring calcium to the bones), which is to strengthen the immune system:

Vitamin D: its role and uses in immunology  (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11726533/)

Vitamin D and the Immune System (https://jim.bmj.com/content/59/6/881)

Vitamin D: modulator of the immune system  (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20427238/)

An update on vitamin D and human immunity  (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21995874/)

It is not just a matter of COVID. With a stronger immune system, people would need less medicine.


Yes but do Pfizer and the others also manufacture vaccines altruistically and without seeking financial gain?


To begin with, as I said before, vitamin D is not a vitamin, although it may seem paradoxical to say so. Then, the current guidelines regarding what is a deficiency are garbage, as they consider that 30 ng/ml are optimal and that a dose of 20k IU is barbaric, when that is what you can get on a summer day by sunbathing moderately for a while.


Yes, of course. If I had a life-threatening disease like cancer, I would put myself in the doctor's hands and do what he told me, but for other things I don't trust so much.

For example: some time ago I had put on weight and the doctor gave me some dietary guidelines that are recommended nowadays but they are garbage. Eating five times a day, cereal-based diet, etc. I did what he told me and I didn't stop gaining weight.

Now I do something that is considered barbaric but I have lost a lot of weight, I am not hungry and I feel better than ever: I eat two or maximum three times a day, the basis of the diet being fats. If I go to the doctor and tell him, he will tell me that I am going to faint from skipping meals and to die from a heart attack because of fats. Nothing farther from the truth.

And I could talk about other things, like cholesterol, or how high blood sugar and diabetes can be cured simply by fasting instead of insulin (Therapeutic use of intermittent fasting for people with type 2 diabetes as an alternative to insulin (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6194375/)), but I think I'll leave it here because it would be digressing too much.

Hypercalcemia itself is reversible, but things it causes might not be. The most likely example would be renal stones, which can cause acute kidney injury and permanent renal damage. Paralytic ileus can lead to bowel perforation requiring major abdominal surgery. Hypercalcemia will make cardiac myocytes relatively refractory to depolarization, which in severe cases can lead to cardiac dysrhythmias and cardiac arrest. Hypercalcemia is not a benign condition.

Important to specify this only applies to type 2 diabetics. If a type 1 diabetic stops taking insulin, they will die.

That's an interesting article, thanks.

I think it's accepted that vitamin D deficiency is very common, particularly at higher latitudes. It has health benefits, yes. Moderate supplementation makes sense.

Sure, it improves overall health. But this doesn't mean that vitamin D is a viable alternative to vaccination. Evidence in general suggests that it helps with Covid outcomes, the paper linked to above notwithstanding. I might suspect (but have no data) that the link between vitamin D deficiency and skin pigmentation may be a factor in the higher Covid rates amongst the BAME population. Vitamin D may help to an extent, just like masks help to an extent. But if you want immunity, your options are either catch it, or take the vaccine.

I'm not denying that large pharmaceutical companies have engaged in some quite egregiously immoral behaviour over the years; Martin Shkreli is not an isolated anomaly. AZ I'm sure are also guilty of questionable practices, just perhaps not with Covid.
Here in the UK, the discussion of how vitamin D might relate to Covid is out in the open; it's not being suppressed. I'm not aware of whether potential links are suppressed in other countries.

Ok first of all, I am going to reply to you both and I'll leave this discussion here. I'll probably open a separate thread about Vitamin D.



Yes, of course. The point is that many times the issue of hypercalcemia is highlighted as if by taking 5-10k you are going to develop hypercalcemia and therefore have permanent kidney damage and the like, when cases are rare, you have to take massive amounts of vitamin D in supplements (you never develop hypercalcemia by sunbathing) and it is not that by developing hypercalcemia you are going to have permanent physical damage 100% of the time. The normal thing for someone who takes doses considered high, is to stop taking them at the slightest symptom, another thing is the people who take these amounts uninformed, or who begin to notice symptoms, do not attribute them to the consumption of vitamin D, and continue consuming large amounts until it is too late.


Yes, of course.


Well, I can agree with that, although I am not 100% sure, but in general agree with this and the rest of what you say. Here again it is shown that although we may have different points of view on many things, by debating we can come to discover that sometimes we have closer thoughts than it would seem at first.

That might be a good idea. I'd like to see more data, as what we have so far on the links between vitamin D and Covid aren't conclusive. Understandably the large scale trials etc have all been about the vaccines. If we didn't have vaccines, then perhaps there would have been some major vitamin D trials.


Yes. I certainly appreciate the discussion. I find that debating a topic with someone who takes the opposing viewpoint forces me to confront and attempt to justify my own assumptions and reasoning, which is always a good thing.

Not really, have you heard of herd immunity, it is where people like you that are smarter than science are being carried by the population that is vaccinated, with them being immune to the virus, which means that the virus can't spread to people like you.

Actually, vitamin D in large doses heals not only Covid, but most of the comorbidities, as well. THIS is the real reason the medical doesn't advertise it very much. V-D and the medical are mutually exclusive. Either no vitamin D in healing amounts, or no medical. Take your pick.

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