Bitcoin Forum

A friend of mine recently had his first child and we are all going to visit and bring gifts. I want to gift $10 in btc not to be accessed until his kid is an adult, by which time it will be worth a lot more or nothing at all.

I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this so that in 20 years the btc can still be recovered. Do I make a wallet, write down the seed phrase, send in some bitcoin and then destroy the wallet? Or do I write down the private key for the specific address where I send the bitcoin to? And which wallet? Electrum doesn't use BIP39, but a BIP39 seed phrase isn't guaranteed to work with every BIP39 compatible wallet either... What about derivation paths?
Is there a secure way to generate a paper wallet offline with a QR code and everything?

I have no experience with paper wallets so any advice is welcome.

First of all: this might be interesting to you: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Timelock

There are several technical sollutions, but a newbie friendly one can be found here => https://coinb.in/#newTimeLocked
I would advise against running this on an online computer tough... Downloading the sourcecode and running it offline is safer.

Also, i'd suggest playing with this on the testnet first, don't lock funds before you've made yourself familiar with how this works :)

Don't use seeds. It's not that there won't be a way to recover it in 20 years but it's just that the recipient wouldn't want to use the seed as his main wallet. They should sweep it to another wallet that they solely control, using a private key is fine.

Paper wallets are generally fine, they are a great form of storage if you're looking to make it a gift. OP_CLTV (OP_HODL) is something you might want to explore. Encompassing it in a script hash address is a way to make time the variable; ie. making sure that it cannot be spent before the specified timeframe. Note that this is still a novel way to store Bitcoins, where most wallets don't allow custom scripts and you might need much more research to be able to spend it, as opposed to just using Electrum or Bitcoin Core.

it is near impossible to use coinb.in site for testnet sadly. i tried it recently and it either kept going back to main-net or failed to get the transaction history to build the transaction.

ouch... i had no idear the testnet feature didn't work on coinb.in

As it is a gift, I suggest that you create something beautiful using QR Codes.

As the value is extremely low ($10)  I would use some website like this one (in an offline computer. Download the webpage disconnect internet and run locally)

https://iancoleman.io/bip39/

You can just generate a random seed. Then scroll down and get the QRCode Private key and Public Key when you hover the address:

https://i.imgur.com/WCvoLfb.png

Then I suggest that you just use some office software that you like (word, powerpoint?) and print the QRCode and the keys in a sheet of paper.

Then just print it and give it to your friend. You may want to put some plastic in it. Add some fancy background or whatever.
https://i.imgur.com/xFSBzvu.png

I will warn you that some website do that automatically (just google and you will find them). DO NOT USE THEM! Those websites have malicious code and they will most likely steal your coins. Just try to make something nice yourself, it is much safer.

Additionally, as you are thinking about a 10year interval, I strongly suggest that you teach him how to recover this fund in some wallet such as Electrum or any other that can use QRcodes.


Edit: To fund the wallet, just scan the QRCode or paste the public address in your personal wallet and send $10 in btc to it. Very easy to use.

I wrote a topic for this a while ago: Using Locktime for inheritance planning, backups or gifts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5180850.0).
Note that it is quite tricky, you need to know exactly what you're doing in order for it to work. And the receiver will still have to trust you didn't keep the private key for yourself.

keep in mind that you should always do a little test to avoid having mistakes. for example in this picture (which would be the printed paper wallet) both QR codes are the private key.
if you were relying only on QR code and for example accidentally printed the address only you'd be screwed.

If you had said 5 years, or maybe even 10 years, then it wouldn't be too significant, but in terms of technology, 20 years is a LONG time.

Will Electrum (or any other client software) still be widely available 20 years from now?  Will Bitcoin have moved on to some other seed or signature system, making it difficult to find any wallet software that still supports the method you choose today?  20 years ago, QR codes didn't even exist yet (nor did things like the iPhone, Android, Blackberry, Kindle, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, TOR, USB Flash Drives, Bitcoin). Wikipedia had only just been founded, and the vast majority of people were still using dial-up to connect to the internet.

I like the thought, and you could certainly just pick a method and roll with it hoping that recovery of the funds won't be beyond the abilities of the recipient 20 years from now, but if you want to be confident that the gift-recipient will actually be able to use the gift someday, then you're going to want to carefully think this through.

This is why I think this should be make as simple as possible.

A private key pair is enough. I wouldn't use no time locks as there is a risk of doing something wrong.

It is very likely that today's private keys will be compatible with wallets in the future, even though things change there will be some way to "convert" old format to new one.

A (laminated) paper wallet inside a sealed envelope is indeed much easier. Just write: "dear baby, open this when you're 18" and ask the parents to keep it.

Got to agree with the K.I.S.S. proponents here... a simple private+public keypair loaded with $10 is probably the best solution here.

I would be very surprised if a standard private key was rendered unusable by any future changes to the network, so that shouldn't be an issue. Then some basic steps to make sure the private key is "safe" (eg. printing on waterproof paper and/or laminating etc) and then handing it over (maybe with some basic instructions on how to store it safely) and then all you can do is hope for the best ;)

Maybe a workaround:

Assuming the "gift giver" stays in bitcoin they can stay up to date with the development and if something changed (eg. moving to another signature algorithm completely) they can move the coins using the ELSE branch otherwise the "giver receiver" can spend it after 20 years with the (different) key they were gifted.
This also helps recover the coins in case the receiver lost their key.

This should be easier and shorter with Taproot but I can only interpret Taproot scripts not write one. I'm interested if anyone else can do it though.

Thanks for all the good advice here. https://iancoleman.io/bip39/ seemed the best option but I just discovered that my coldcard has a built in paper wallet generator so I'm going to use that.

I'm talking about the build in paper wallet generator on the device itself.

If this coldcard is the one ETFbitcoin mentioned then yes, you can do that. Here's their youtube video, steps on how you can do that  4 How to make a Bitcoin Paper Wallet with COLDCARD (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERQfuzE3GOg)

Just make sure that no one has a copy of that paper wallet other than you and the child of your friends or any of his fam you trust.

I gifted 0.001BTC to my dad through a polymerbit note and I'm really happy about it, you should give it at thought!

You can find it here: https://www.coinsofnakamoto.com/

It's not that expensive, it's reliable, and quite nice looking.

Ok so a little update... I created and printed out the paper wallet, it has the address bc1qrwc85tjunwql9zu9gew3q7knf70mv73tghtqyr and as you can see I deposited a small amount of Bitcoin on it. I tried creating a watch only wallet in Electrum (android) to see if it worked and... nothing. No funds on that address whatsoever. I tried sweeping the wallet with Electrum (both android and desktop) and Samourai Wallet and while they recognize the private key they don't find any UTXO...

What the fuck is going on?

edit: If I use the Electrum desktop wallet to create a watch only wallet and import the address it does recognize the UTXO..
edit: I can't sweep the private key in Bitcoin Core either

Seems like your Electrum Android wallet isn't syncing properly or something... I was able to create a watching-only wallet just fine:
https://talkimg.com/images/2023/11/14/zFBDg.png


Not sure why they wouldn't be able to sweep the private keys though... I can only think that your client is connected to a server that was lagging or not properly synced. Are you connecting to your own node/servers or are you using public ones? ???

 The funding transaction (https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/eb535ccc13538ad8565320991c9c69d0adb20d7e486f1fd689069c638ac13085) obviously exists and can be seen/synced... and I can even create an unsigned transaction from the watching-only wallet.

Obviously, not having the private key, I can't attempt to sweep or sign/spend the coins.

My desktop Electrum is connected to myNode running Electrs and Samourai to Dojo on myNode. I couldn't get the android version of electrum working with myNode yet so that's using public servers.

edit: I managed to sweep using electrum desktop, all I had to do was add p2wpkh: in front of the private key.

still looking into why it doesn't work on android, with samourai or bitcoin core...

Maybe you can wait until it sync completely with the use of internet, of course, if the address is correctly imported, most of this downloaded wallet need to sync, but not much of a time.

While importing a watch only address on some web wallets reflects almost instant.

On Android, I prefer Mycelium for watch-only wallets. When importing, it automatically checks all address types associated with a private key (so no manual "p2wpkh:" needed, I can never remember that)).

I've had inconsistencies with importing watch-only addresses on Bitcoin Core too. I can't find back my post about it though.

Just thought I'd share with you a couple of thoughts.

I gave my father a paper wallet with BTC 0.11 on it some five to six years ago ^{1}.  Since the beginning of this year I have paid more attention to forked coins than I have in the past and have found there are about a dozen forks of bitcoin that have viable amounts that can be recovered to apps such as coinomi or Ballet Wallet where they can sit until their price rises, or, we decide to dispose of those forked coins.  The actual bitcoin we've reached an agreement to split the initial 0.11 into smaller sizes (probably 0.01 a piece on new paper wallets) so that if the price jumps even higher in the next five, ten... twenty years, the sale price won't be as astronomical to ask someone to pay in a cash/hand over the paper wallet transaction.

With regards to security, my suggestion is don't overthink security of your gift for someone who may not be tech savy.

I've tried the coinb.in method as suggested by others and get glib responses when I asked for help in those threads (that is to say I have funds locked away that are seemingly permanently locked - even after the test time has elapsed).

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I only know of BCH/BSV/BCH-A/BTG/BCD that are currently worth it. Which ones did I miss? As far as I know they either have very low trading volume, or no working wallet, but if I missed some, I have work to do!

Out of curiosity: are you now using SegWit paper wallets? I've never made those by myself.

A timelock solution without private key may mean you can't access future Forks.

I may have seen it in the past, but just in case: can you share the links to read up on this?

[quote author=LoyceV link=topic=5349056.msg57488852#msg57488852 date=1626608796]
[quote author=Timelord2067 link=topic=5349056.msg57487702#msg57487702 date=1626597710]
there are about a dozen forks of bitcoin that have viable amounts that can be recovered[/quote]
I only know of BCH/BSV/BCH-A/BTG/BCD that are currently worth it. Which ones did I miss? As far as I know they either have very low trading volume, or no working wallet, but if I missed some, I have work to do![/quote]

Sorry, my bad - I think I meant to say HALF a dozen...

Ballet Wallet will import BTC/BCH/BSV/BCHA/BTG/BCD at the same time with the one privkey while coinomi imports BTC/BCH/BTG/XBC/BSV/BTCZ one at a time (but with just the one privkey)

* when I say import, the funds are sent as a transaction to a new wallet address contained within the relevant App.

From the above, there are seven plus BTC (which is getting near to a dozen I guess ...) there could be more I've missed if they have non-bitcoin names.


Not as yet, the easyest way (which I'm going to do) is go to

• https://segwitaddress.org/
• https://segwitaddress.org/bech32/

generate a pubkey/privkey pair then use Zint Barcode studio (https://portableapps.com/apps/utilities/zint_barcode_studio_portable) or similar to generate a QR code and print out using Open Office or similar (I use the Portable Apps version).

If you *really* want to be sneaky, you can create a NON QR code

e.g.

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/17/blobd5865a4264cba8df.jpeg

or

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/17/bloba32d7de47407c673.jpeg

or

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/17/blobaff0713752dfcec9.jpeg

or

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/17/blob5aa980e656ec887f.jpeg

and slot those barcodes into text in a pdf (or even a printout) where they appear to be for something else entirely.  A person not in the know wouldn't know what sort of bar code, where it was stored (in the clear, or with-in a pdf etc) - as a label on a book, or a jar of coffee... They would have to spend days barcode scanning *every* surface.  (not to mention the Lego Set (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5234091.0))


I'll dig out the link (probably tomorrow as it's getting towards midnight here time)

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Did you know


is a bitcoin wallet address ??

See if you can work out the answer to that.

Considering how many people already have a hard time recovering Bitcoin from an old storage format (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4959742.0), I wouldn't use non-standard encoding.

Short answer: no it's not :)
I can SHA-256 it to use as a brain wallet, which gives 1Piet (https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/address/1PietKBx5RxFWGQVoCAMfXh9Ez9kzJooZy) (a Dutch name) as vanity address, but you can do that with any data.

[quote author=LoyceV link=topic=5349056.msg57490135#msg57490135 date=1626619166]
[quote author=Timelord2067 link=topic=5349056.msg57489192#msg57489192 date=1626611959]
If you *really* want to be sneaky, you can create a NON QR code[/quote]
Considering how many people already have a hard time recovering Bitcoin from an old storage format (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4959742.0), I wouldn't use non-standard encoding.[/quote]

True, but as with the second response below, these methods could be used by someone who knows what they are doing for short term storage.


Well... it is, but not with the method you supposed above.

[quote author=Timelord2067 link=topic=5349056.msg57489192#msg57489192 date=1626611959]
[/quote]

the hxg5JYz is the file name of the last bar code in my previous post.  I wouldn't advise using a third party service to store a privkey.  However, it demonstrates that a privkey can be hidden in a multitude of ways (I'd only use the above (filename method) for very short term storage).

 ;D