Bitcoin Forum

The growing influence of Bitcoin in the world has attracted more and more supporters. But at the same time, criticism against Bitcoin has never stopped. Many people disapprove Bitcoin because they believe Bitcoin mining wastes too much energy, esp, electricity, whereas Bitcoin itself does not create any value.

As far as I'm concerned, the POW model in Bitcoin mining is definitely not a waste of energy, but instead a storage of energy and value. That is the basis of the value of Bitcoin and the existence of Bitcoin.

Ethereum has initially formed a complete ecology in the past five to six years, yet it didn't manage to withstand the pressure of all parties, finally choosing to convert the consensus mechanism from POW to POS and leaving Bitcoin the only one that sticks to POW. POW consumes energy on the surface, but in essence it stores energy and value. Now, let’s interpret the process from the perspective of physics. To begin with, the first law of thermodynamics.

That law refers to energy protection and transformation in the field of thermal phenomena. It reflects the conservation of different forms of energy during transformation and conversion. The concrete expression is: the increase in the internal energy of an object is equal to the amount of heat absorbed by the object and the work imposed on the object. That is, heat can be transferred from one problem to another stage, or it can be converted into mechanical energy or other energies, but during that process, the total volume of energy remains unchanged. Its extension and essence is the famous "law of conservation of energy".

The law of conservation of energy is one of the basic laws in nature. It is generally expressed like this: energy neither emerges out of the void nor disappears from nowhere. It only transforms from one form to another, or from one object to another, while the total amount always remains the same. If a system is in isolation, then it is impossible for energy or mass to pass into or out of the system. In this case, the law of conservation of energy is that the total energy of the isolated system stays fixed.

In terms of time, space, matter and energy, human beings know a lot about energy, but also very little. Energy seems very mysterious, it's about the transformation of material movement. Everything in the world is in constant motion. Among all the attributes of matter, movement is the most basic one, and others are all the specific manifestations. Energy exists in diverse forms. According to the forms of movement, energy can be divided into electrical energy, nuclear energy, mechanical energy, chemical energy, thermal energy, radiation energy, light energy, biological energy, etc. These different forms of energy can be converted into each other through physical effects or chemical reactions.

About energy, what mankind can do now is to continuously transform the energy in nature into energy that can be used by mankind through technology and into the momentum for the development of human society. In daily lives, oil and electricity impress us most. We refuel cars every day, turning the energy contained in the oil into the energy for running cars. We use electricity all the time to supply the normal operation of the entire human civilization. But electricity does not come out of the blue, but from the transformation of hydropower, wind energy, coal, oil, etc. Water and food supplement the energy humans need, otherwise death comes. 

Bitcoin mining we are currently conducting is essentially a process of energy conversion. Firstly, water energy, wind energy, solar energy, geothermal energy and so on are converted into electrical energy that mining machines need to participate in hash calculation, which forms computing power, entering the accounting work of Bitcoin, and then obtaining the Bitcoin reward. In the end, the energy of nature is stored in the form of Bitcoin, that is, the value is stored. Bitcoin mining is not free, it has cost, it needs to consume physical mining machines, it needs to consume energy. The energy consumption process is the process of energy transmission, being converted into stored Bitcoin, which happens to be the value support of Bitcoin. Based on this, no other cryptocurrency can replace Bitcoin.

What do you think?

I mean, it's safe to assume that most of the "Bitcoin is a waste of energy" people probably didn't even spend enough time thinking to grasp the concept of "store of energy". That, along with the dozens and dozens of nonsense criticisms against Bitcoin.

As far as I know though, the argument against Bitcoin's energy usage is mostly in the environmental perspective. That Bitcoin is unnecessary hence is causing unnecessary damage to the environment. Funnily enough, people criticize Bitcoin's energy usage with them turning a blind eye on other "unnecessary"(not necessarily bad, but not necessarily needed for humanity to survive) energy hogs such as Christmas lights and gaming consoles.

Although it's an interesting idea, I think that's wrong. The energy is not stored per se into Bitcoin, it's - let's face it - still consumed in the real world, hence this idea will be easily opposed by anybody. And Bitcoin is a virtual thing, it cannot store anything, it only has the value we give it to it, seen by the price we agree to trade it for.

The fact that this price is related to the cost of mining is caused by the fact the mining reward is still big. With the reward going down more and more over years this relation should get broken at some point, when the miners will no longer be able to stay as main sellers.

Also it's related to the fact that most miners buy their electricity, and some not even cheap. If the vast majority will have their own renewable sources, after paying for all the "gears", they'll no longer be tied to the price of electricity and the idea of "store of energy" would no longer have ground.


So while Bitcoin mining is indeed not a waste of energy, I find your reasoning behind it incorrect.

The thing is.... What is a waste ..in people's perception?

Is energy wasted when a person use that energy to play video games that requires a massive GPU and that person is playing that game for hours every day?

Is energy wasted when 1000's of households sit in front of a huge Plasma or Led Television that are linked to a powerful surround sound system and they watch movies and series for hours and hours?

What if that GPU can be used to generate income by mining Alt coins and selling them or if the same GPU can be used to process transactions for an alternative currency?  (Blockchain) <== This puts food on the table and it runs a payment system...

In your opinion.... given the information above, what would you define as a waste?

Bitcoin consumes energy, but it's really not a waste. If someone considers it to be a waste, they either don't understand Bitcoin or they have a different agenda in mind. BTC ensures an ecosystem that is free and decentralized, a kind of currency humanity never had before. Therefore, it's not a waste but nor is it a storage of energy. Can't call "storage" something that isn't able to give back energy, if it makes sense. BTC is just a free currency that uses energy to function.

Dude,do you have to write boring walls of text to prove your point? ;D
Bitcoin mining is transforming energy into value.
People,who think that Bitcoin is useless and worthless also think that BTC mining is a waste of energy.
This is opinion,not knowledge.We have to differentiate opinions from facts and knowledge.
If Bitcoin mining was a waste of energy,then nobody would bother buying mining hardware and building mining facilities.

I do love the concept of storage of energy and value, and you know it's strange but a lot of gamers and collectors tell you the same thing and I don't think they're wrong.

For example you know they sort of in the past with the MMORPG games where some coins are only collectible by spending time hacking and slashing (you can't buy the coins except from other players). Then it's literally time and electricity spent by players to just game and grind and collect. Which they then sell for real money.

Not as valuable as Bitcoin because it can't be used anywhere else but it's the same concept:)

By consuming it the energy won't go to waste and there is no harm in the environment as well. As for those people who think Bitcoin mining will cause a power shortage, then that's not gonna happen since those machines that are used to mine bitcoins has some minimum power consumption. They just using some manipulative words to control the market by tweeting negative words which do not make any sense. Thankfully we have some great researchers that are experts when it comes to this kind of thing and they clarified that it doesn't bring any harm and it is all safe.

Hi, dude, thank you for your wonderful reply. These text walls of mine are really hard to read. But what I want to explore is the logic behind these things. What you said is great, Bitcoin mining is transforming energy into value. What I want to explain now is why Bitcoin mining can transform energy into value? It also follows the law of conservation of energy. This is a process in which energy is transformed into computing power, computing power is transformed into bitcoin, and finally value is stored in the form of bitcoin. Perhaps most people are not interested in this, but I believe that there will still be a small number of people who care about the underlying logic behind it. At the same time, the views I summarized may not be completely correct. I put forward these points for more friends to think together.

I love this piece of yours explaining to us the scientific background on Bitcoin mining though I have to admit that I don't fully comprehend everything you are saying just because I am just a very "normal" guy who is not so inclined to many things science...but don't worry because I do really appreciate the things you are trying to hammer us on. Honestly speaking, to anyone who is not interested or even a person who has taken the side of those in the anti-Bitcoin group, there is no explanation that can suffice but to those who love what Bitcoin and cryptocurrency in general do represent, no technical explanation can be needed though it is always valued and appreciated. 

PoW energy is actually used to produce value. It's more like how lots of energy is used to produce valuable precious metals like Gold. It's like saying you need to work hard to produce value.... So you solve problems and value is produced.
In a truely decentralized cryptocurrency, make sure all/most participants are able to solve problems to earn values in form of rewards/crypto.  Finally, solving problems requires energy. It will take energy to solve problems, but we need to ensure that the energy sources are clean/renewable, and that the miners use energy efficiently in a way that the right amount of energy goes mostly in solving problem and little/nothing goes to waste. Or you can solve thesame problems the right way and achieve the right result without requiring thesame amount of electricity used by the current miners

Bitcoin would work perfectly well if there were just 10 computers in the world processing transactions.  Any more than that is purely greed by the miners and a complete waste of energy.  We are stuck in a useless loop of building faster asics and then buying more of them to try and outdo eachother.  Remember whe btc dropped to $4K and mining stopped being profitable?  Best thing ever for the environment.

That begs a few questions; What is the closest substitute to Christmas lights and gaming consoles? What is the electrical consumption of them? How much e-waste is produced as a result of them? What is the perceived utility of them? Is it fair to compare two completely different subjects? Shouldn't we be comparing it to the next best alternative?

There is both sides to a coin. Saying Bitcoin is a blatant waste of electricity is wrong, because PoW is meant to consume large amount of resources in exchange for the security of the chain. It is, however not wrong to argue that Bitcoin is a worse choice of payment medium as compared to Visa, Mastercard, SEPA, etc in terms of efficiency. Bitcoin's TPS is probably about 7-10 TPS, avg is about 3-4TPS in these few days and I daresay there is a larger proportion of transfers between services or exchanges than actual day-to-day use. Going by that, the efficiency of Bitcoin as a currency is far lower than that of it's closest substitute, by a ton. I think Visa alone processes 1,700 TPS probably at a far lower environmental degradation to Bitcoin.

The argument about Bitcoin's electricity wastage has nothing to do with the law of conservation of energy. Duh, electrical energy is primarily converted to heat energy. We're saying that there is a more efficient payment method than what we're currently having. 3TPS just doesn't cut it.

Fair points and a very well constructed argument.

The thing is, how do we ensure the security of a chain without wasting this much energy? I mean, if we don't care about the decentralized aspects of Bitcoin then we probably shouldn't be using it after all. So since we do care about its decentralized aspects.. how do we make this possible?

Since there's no known better technology than Bitcoin/PoW, this is simply the best we can do. There is enough time for open-source to be explored and to make Bitcoin better as time goes on. But the issue is, the Bitcoin community generally doesn't like changes. Therefore, even if we did find a better alternative to PoW, chances are it'd be instantly rejected by the crypto community.

This thing is double-edged. You have a currency that needs upgrades but upgrades mean acceptance, which this particular community doesn't agree with very well.

Thanks.
The simple answer is that, you don't. The very fact that people are highlighting that Bitcoin has been consuming tons of energy means that it is working. PoW is working because it is prohibitively expensive and unprofitable for an adversary to attack the chain. We don't have to change something that is working.

The only thing that has to change is people's arguments towards Bitcoin's electricity wastage. Yes, Bitcoin consumes a ton of electricity, and isn't as efficient as other payment processors... But, there is a potential for it to eventually scale and serve as a substitute for the financial systems around the globe and as a universal payment processor at the same time. It simply doesn't make sense for Bitcoiners to refute the arguments by deflecting it to:

1) Other issues, ie. non-close substitutes.
2) Renewable energy; Doesn't mean zero environmental impact, doesn't mean zero e-waste, doesn't mean zero opportunity costs
3) Some ridiculous arguments which has no relation whatsoever to the issue at hand.

My point is that it is simply better to embrace that Bitcoin is an inefficient currency right now. Trying to refute the said arguments with the points above just makes us look like fools and cultist.

Mining cryptocurrencies and especially bitcoin is not a waste of energy resources. It’s resources and money invested in the most secure financial network on earth. Bitcoin professor Andreas Antonopoulos tackled this subject in recent Q&A on his Youtube channel. Even though Bitcoin is much smaller than the banking business, it’s probably also more efficient.
Antonopoulos sees mining as the effect of market conditions. It’s a profitable business and therefore there are developments in the optimization of the mining process. However, the biggest costs in mining comes from electricity. That’s why mining farms often chooseour natural resources of electricity over the traditional electricity net. I think about hydro generators in Russia and China, wind energy and solar energy in for example the United States.
“It is not a waste of money. It is money that has been well spend and invested by miners in order to buy us all the most robust system of immutability, security and protection against  spending double that has ever been invented.”

Is this true or is there a data to back up that only 10 computers can be used to process the transactions globally? I am not a miner or has any knowledge about the inner workings of mining so I was curious with your claim that it only takes 10 computers to do all the work. I think it doesn't matter that mining stopped being profitable for the betterment of the environment because we are still destroying natural habitats and throwing billions of tons of green house gases in the atmosphere.

for me bitcoin mining is not a waste of energy because what from the results of mining can make money from us selling bitcoin ourselves
and for me it wastes electricity just to watch, buy an internet package just to play games
I think it's very unethical if someone talks like that only people who don't know and understand what bitcoin is and how much is bitcoin itself

Mining helps push the transactions to go through, it processes blocks. Why is that a question of wasting energy when someone out there needs to send worth million dollar transaction?

If we look at this process as a waste of energy  then even if we use solar, wind or volcano energy, it will still be a waste of energy for you.

People's who greed makes everything chaotic, the amount of wasted energy makes everyone feel the impact, we hope that there will be awareness from miners not to be greedy in mining bitcoin.

The value of Bitcoin is entirely dependent on everyone and what the whales are going to do (we all know this), but when it comes to energy consumption, it's not a waste because many things go to it.

The only way that it wastes energy is by mining through non-renewable energy resources. Most of this would be from fossil fuels and coal power plants that produce electricity, and it is scarce. There's nothing more to it than that.

Yes, it does support the blockchain, etc., but the energy is not as efficient comparing to renewable energy sources. I think everybody who is a hater of crypto is probably going to attack from that angle,. Still, in reality, those operating in the non-renewable energy setup will be at a loss in the long run, so it's technically a waste.

You get a double win when you use renewable energies. Clean and efficient use of energy. No additional waste.

Only waste would be the ones lost in energy conversion processes (the imperfect systems)

I think Bitcoin hash rate could be diverted to something like researching places that need your computing power as well as mine Bitcoin but both at the same time. This would strengthen the argument for proof of work but it is clear that proof of work is the only good algorithm for mining.

In a perfect world, yes.  If there were 10 computers, difficulty would be very low (it is only high as there are soooooo maaaaaany miners) and every 10 mins one of the computers would solve the equation and mine the block.  Simple.  It is only because everyone wants a piece of the action and if you have 100 miners, i need 110 to beat you.  It just becomes a stupid arms race.  POW was a valid argument at the time but I dont think they ever expected it to get this far. 

the fact is it is true that bitcoin has a very large impact, one of which is mining which consumes a very large electricity consumption, but if you think about it it is very worth the results received.
because with the current bitcoin price, I don't think it's a significant problem in mining that consumes a lot of electricity.
the problem is the calculation and the amount of electricity supply that is available today because the longer the electricity used automatically gets bigger and it's more or less a problem in the electricity ecosystem in the future it will be hampered and will speed up the electricity running out.
although on the other hand bitcoin will experience profits in the long run but the power supply will be threatened. and that is a consequence that must be accepted

Proof of work is the most idiotic consensus algo these days.
Its good for bringing up 50% of the coins, but its time to change.
Those people who support and hold BTC  should get money in their poket.
Miners do a stupid gambling game to earn the next block.
Its not only the waste of electricity its also the thousends of ASIC miners need to run out of service due to higher hash rate each year.

As Satoshi realised, their will be always better mining ways (such as grafic cards) he dissapear. For a good reason.

Who says we need POW to keep BTC value is only addicted to an old relgious thinking.
The worth of Bitcoin will rise, not get lower

And b.t.w in the fork we can make BTC much more scalable

The reason why Bitcoin has an increasingly strong global consensus is because of the support of the POW mining consensus mechanism. It is the cornerstone of the entire Bitcoin ecosystem, and the Bitcoin ecosystem is therefore unbreakable. Bitcoin mining converts natural energy into electricity, which is then converted into computing power, and computing power is finally converted into Bitcoin, which stores natural energy. Bitcoin is another form of value. POW mining is a solid support for the value of Bitcoin. In exchange for a solid and stable global accounting system. Only in this way can we gain the trust of hundreds of millions of dollars in funds at every turn.

Mining consumes high energy, just because of that it isn't waste of energy. If the energy consumed on mining is waste of energy, then the banking process that consume electricity too is a waste of energy. Based on the increasing difficulty there is increase in the electricity consumption. With time the hardware efficiency is increased with reduced electricity consumption. Maybe scenario could change with the mining process taking place under the solar energy. By then will someone state the electricity consumption as waste of energy.

The Bitcoin mining software takes about 10 minutes on average for those on the network to solve the complex programme and process a block. Is it bad for the environment? As miners use large and efficient systems to mine blocks and validate transactions, this consumes tremendous amounts of electricity.

every mining we do energy will definitely be wasted, like we play games using gpu energy is definitely wasted, but the problem is the energy wasted in bitcoin mining, it is never wasted, because the profits we get are 10 times, different from playing games Of course, the energy we expend will be wasted.

is it true 10 times what we get? Miners today cannot be said to be profitable if they do not have large capital. if it's only a small miner with a limited RIG, it won't cover the cost for the electricity used as well as the replacement of the GPU if it suddenly breaks down. Minimum capital will not be profitable. But if a Chinese class miner with thousands of active GPUs, it will be different again.

Currently the energy sources used by miners are also environmentally friendly and not wasted and 50% does not damage the environment.

It's not bad for the environment, it's just how people want you to think that it's bad for the environment, bitcoin mining is just consuming electricity, it's not like they produce their power unless the mines have their own energy generator like windpower or solar energy. The people who says that bitcoin is a waste of energy are the people that don't have any direct stake in bitcoin or was bitter about the price of bitcoin so high that they regret not buying it and now they want to spread negativity on it to make it go down.

Yes, some people say that Bitcoin is a waste of energy, which is often an excuse. Some people use this to attack Bitcoin, and some people regret that they don't have Bitcoin in their hands. People who use this to attack Bitcoin are more often than not that they have never had Bitcoin before and do not really understand Bitcoin.

Many people believe that Bitcoin mining does not generate social value, and that mining is just a waste of resources. I think this is a misunderstanding of mining.
Just like printing money in a country, it also consumes manpower and paper. It is electricity that guarantees the value of Bitcoin. Just like issuing currency, this consumption is inevitable.
I don't want to use the logic that existence is reasonable. The electricity consumed by Bitcoin mining is the result of normal market economic transactions. Isn't this the value of Bitcoin in the market? It's not that it is meaningless.
For the entire system, the greatest value of the large amount of electricity consumed by Bitcoin is security.It is precisely because accounting involves huge computing power that no other organization has the ability to tamper with data.

Bitcoin mining is not a waste of energy resources. It is a resources and money invested in most secure financial network.Miners are now heading to the cheapest sources of energy ,which more often than not are renewable. People should keep an open mind and put things into perspective.

Mining activities are crucial for cryptocurrencies.The essence of mining is that global miners use algorithms and computing power to maintain a relatively safe and decentralized currency system.
Bitcoin's mining mechanism is the technical foundation that maintains the operation of the Bitcoin network.
Bitcoin mining can ensure the security of the Bitcoin network. The purpose is to protect encrypted currency from network attacks and tampering with the data in the protocol, which is of great significance to Bitcoin users.
The energy consumed by Bitcoin mining is necessary. It can turn energy into capital gains and at the same time make assets more secure.So Bitcoin mining should be a meaningful and reasonable behavior, and it cannot be simply regarded as a waste of resources.

If someone says bitcoin mining is a waste of energy, of course he doesn't understand bitcoin mining or hates bitcoin, I'm sure this issue was created to make bitcoin fall so everything can be done. It is our collective duty to campaign positively about bitcoin mining that does not require excessive energy.

Many people use Bitcoin to waste energy to attack Bitcoin. They don't understand the overall operating mode of Bitcoin at all, and they don't know that  mining is more a store of value. Bitcoin mining maintains the normal operation of the entire Bitcoin network and records huge economic behavior.

From the perspective of Bitcoin, mining has an impact on Bitcoin itself. It costs money to mine. The more cost miners pay, the more valuable Bitcoin is.
This problem can easily be polarized. Those who support Bitcoin believe that Bitcoin has real value, not a waste of resources. Those who oppose Bitcoin believe that Bitcoin has no real value and therefore is a waste of resources. From a subjective level, mining itself is the definition of the cost of digital currency.

What I think is that while Cryptocurrency mining does use a lot of electricity, governments need to consider that other operations that creates money like casinos, entertainment centers in red light districts, pollutant rich factories, and industries that they see as a challenge to the environment, also uses electricity and should also be sanctioned like the Bitcoin companies and mining conglomerates. I think it is unfair for governments to blame it all on crypto and put all legal means to "silence" cryptocurrency. Obviously, they failed.

To mine Bitcoin is full of profit. People invest and trade in Bitcoin there is price risk. But mine Bitcoin is full of profit because there is no any Investment needed and if you mined Bitcoin you have observed that it is not wadte of energy.

Your logic is really good. Read your other posts. Each article has something worth learning. But for some people who like simplicity, they will choose to skip when they see your article.

Many people think that mining does not produce social value, so mining is a pure waste of resources. This is a misunderstanding.

The essence of mining is that global miners use algorithms and computing power to maintain a (relative) absolutely safe and decentralized currency system. Essentially, all electricity costs, graphics card costs, ASIC R&D and manufacturing costs are maintained. ,Are maintaining this system.

Compared with other industries, Bitcoin mining does not consume a high proportion of electricity. Secondly, most of the mining farms are located in places with abundant renewable resources.

Thank you very much for your recognition of these articles, and I will try my best to improve my writing skills. I know that there is a common problem with text walls in my articles, and many people will simply ignore them. But anyway, I think they are still very valuable. I express an opinion as completely as possible through each article, and record the thought process that I obtained this opinion. These views are certainly not correct, but I hope they can inspire more people to think together.

Depends on where you mine because there are countries out there that have an expensive electricity so if you are on one, I don't think that it's profitable as you may say, another factor is the climate, if you're near the equator like me, I don't think that you're going to like mining here because the rigs might overheat because the climate is mostly hot and it's an additional expenses in cooling so additional expenses to electricity.

Is 5870 a waste? I have such a video card.

Here is what I believe in that I think should make sense. Energy is converted to heat in the GPU's mining the Bitcoin or doing the calculations, but that heat also creates work that in turn mines the Bitcoin and is stored digitally and has value. That alone is not really what I already define as something of value, not really a waste. The bitcoin that was created is then converted to fiat currency and that money can be used to buy stuff. So for me, mining is not a waste of energy.

I mean if you are looking at it from a consumption versus production, there are a million other things in the world that are using more energy than bitcoin mining that serve no productive purpose, bitcoin not only it is changing the way we view economy and the how we interact with each other, but with bitcoin it has created a lot of jobs and opportunities for a lot of people including me, so mining bitcoin even though it seems a wasted of energy it has a lot of positive effect.

True, in fact if we're talking about waste of energy, there are a lot more cases out there instead of bitcoin. But people will always find fault and criticize, not surprised of course. They might be thinking those kind of things because they think that bitcoin is not tangible, it has no shape so it's just a waste of energy to mine for something untouchable, and those who don't understand think that bitcoin surely has no real value. Although it might be bad for the environment, although not really if we think about it, but i don't think bitcoin mining is a waste of energy.

Bitcoin mining is even much better for the environment when compared to mining other natural resources such as gold, natural gas and etc. Bitcoin miners can get around the use of renewable energy for mining, but how can these natural resource miners prevent a direct impact on the environment in which the mine is founded?

For whatever purpose, some critics call bitcoin mining a waste of energy, but rest assured that some of them may be quite a believer in myths and they are nothing more than anti-bitcoin circles.

The hypocrisy behind the opinions of those people is very obvious to anyone that takes the time to actually think about it, they say that bitcoin is wasting energy as it is unnecessary, however it is fair to wonder if civilization can exist without a sound form of money and there is not any form of money that is better than bitcoin, while a great deal of the energy that we use could in fact be said to be using completely unnecessary stuff, after all entertainment can be gotten without the use of electronic devices.

Hey from little Luxemburg,

for myself I am also very interested in investing in alternatives (Bitcoins…)   But until now everything was new and everybody  (colleagues…) told me something else.

But before I invested in bitcoins, I wanted to know what are they, what are they for and advantages and disadvantages. In addition that I searched for somebody who really knows about such a sensible theme with money.

So that’s why  I went online and made some research & I found some really nice detailled descriptions (ways) to  know more about (from the beginning, trustfull platforms…)    Many thanks to those persons.

After those  I more understand  the sensible theme  « invest your money in Bitcoins»
 
Here are 4 different videos which you can watch  for FREE that will support and help you to understand   Bitcoins  (detailled from the beginning, not only for bankers but also for people who never got in contact with that

 
1.   https://oke.io/bJKXBe
2.   https://oke.io/Ygo9C
3.   https://oke.io/CnElt6YL
4.   https://oke.io/htfWklDR

 
Greetings from Luxemburg

For something that has so much value such as Bitcoin, being hard to mine should be one of the features of it. If it was so easy to mine, then that would have not made much sense, and a lot of people would have criticized it the more. Moreover there are a lot more other things that consumes energy more than BTC, even the banking system consumes a lot more energy than Bitcoin does. There are so many things that consumes energy but nobody seems to be talking about them, they only criticize Bitcoin because they don’t understand it and they don’t like it.

Most people don't know bitcoin so they think that mining bitcoin is the same as mining for oil, coal and so on, they don't care about the real facts because they are ruled by envy and fear that their business will be rivaled by the presence of bitcoin.

There are so many pros and cons on this matter. Coupled with Elon Musk's tweets from time to time about his concern if the use of fossil fuels increases for the development of crypto currencies. From one source, it is said that Bitcoin is mined by computers in large data centers that consume energy, this opinion is then supported by various analyzes of Bitcoin mining that are not environmentally friendly. But keep in mind that this is just an opinion. And until now, there are still many people mining Bitcoin and even updating their devices as a means of support, definitely not without reason. So try to think more openly, look for deeper information.

Bitcoin mining is undoubtedly a massive waste of fuel oil and electricity. Many environmentalists believe that if this continues, bitcoin mining will become a threat to the world to come. So it is possible very quicklyBitcoin mining stop.

They criticize bitcoin because they think it is useless, but give them time and let them see the huge inflation that is coming due to all the money that is being printed and they will sing a different tune very soon and they will realize why bitcoin is necessary and how despite its important energy consumption it is many times more efficient than the current banking system, however we must understand that there is also paid opposition that is paid to tell all kind of lies about bitcoin and will never say anything good about it.

Really? Because households, hospitals and other important infrastructures are all consuming electricity so I don't think that saying bitcoin is undoubtedly a waste of electricity is stupid since we're also using electricity and what some of us do are even more frivolous than mining bitcoin so I don't see your point.

back again to everyone's understanding, especially to people who do not like bitcoin itself.
a simple example is that those who like bitcoin will of course prepare an allocation of electricity supply for mining so that bitcoin mining is not hampered with a definite hope that they will get bitcoin as a result of mining and this they will consider worth it even if the electricity taken is quite large but it it can be done and its profit can be patched with bitcoin.
in contrast to those who don't like bitcoin even though for example bitcoin mining requires a small or large power supply they will not care and will hate it and now the electricity supply for mining is in question but they are not aware that there are more things that have the potential to consume electricity supply for example such as electronic devices that are not very useful and even electric car chargers that are said to be environmentally friendly have to consume a minimum of 2000-3000 volt amperes per each charger and this is certainly something that is not taken into account.

I don't think Bitcoin mining is a waste of resources.In fact, it is very light.For example, the US dollar.It is undeniable that the US dollar is valuable.No one would say that printing US dollars is a waste of resources of cotton and linen.

It is the electricity bill that guarantees the value of btc.

It is military spending that guarantees the value of the dollar.

Some things cannot be escaped. I fully believe that military expenditures are greater than electricity expenditures.

Taking into account that a great economic crisis is forming all over the world and that the main cause of such a crisis is going to be fiat currencies then it is fair to wonder what is it going to be one of the most sought items during that time? And the answer is a solid form of money, and bitcoin is incredibly solid, lets see if the people that today are claiming that bitcoin is useless can still claim the very same thing once we are facing those circumstances.

All signs now indicate that in the next few years, a worldwide financial crisis will definitely come. The key is how it will come. All sovereign countries are now using over-printed currencies to delay this economic crisis. However, the Super India currency will only make the crisis bigger, and will not be able to fundamentally solve the crisis. In my opinion, for ordinary people, Bitcoin is our only choice to deal with the world economic crisis. It provides a completely decentralized value store model based on algorithms. It can save our wealth from being exploited. There are still many people slandering Bitcoin, but they don’t know that Bitcoin is the only antidote to everyone’s wealth.

The only thing mining is good for is the people who make the miners.  In the arms race to have more mining capacity than everyone else, they are the only winners.

The way I look at it, we don't know precisely in which direction the bitcoin market will move when or if a crisis situation occurs. We haven't yet seen bitcoin in action, we haven't yet witnessed its price fluctuation during serious economic situations. The thing is that we measure the value of bitcoin with an overprinted and unstable currency like the dollar, so in terms of the dollar bitcoin may fall dramatically. From the perspective of bitcoin, nothing will change, even if there is a crisis, you are still going to possess the same percentage of its total supply. If you are open-minded enough to measure things with a truly decentralized reference system, then you are ready to face any crisis.

If mining weren't profitable, no one would waste resources.

Check the post by witcher_sense above. If mining is not profitable, then no one would be doing it. Everyone is benefitting out of mining. The list is endless - governments (tax revenue), mining equipment manufacturers (sales revenue), miners (income), landlords (rental payments), exchanges, mining pool managers, ordinary cryptocurrency users (who get protection in the form of PoW for using cryptocurrency).etc. My logic is pretty simple. If printing of fiat banknotes is profitable, then mining of cryptocurrency is much more profitable compared to it.

Many management problems are to solve the problem of trust. Here, our primitive and rough management model wasted a lot of energy, manpower and material resources. Due to distrust, we must add a large number of administrators. But with mining, everything becomes simple and the trust problem is solved. A lot more energy, manpower, and material costs are saved. This will create a streamlined social management system that will serve the improvement of human productivity to the greatest extent.

bitcoin mining isn't a waste of energy because, mining bitcoin gives gain and not only losses, although mining bitcoin is very time consuming. the profit you will gain is very high especially if the market on bitcoin is in the upwards trend. but sadly not everyone have the resources to mine bitcoin nowadays and there are several countries that ban the mining on bitcoin. nonetheless mining bitcoin is definitely not a waste of time and energy.

Mining is not a waste of energy. I consider something to be a waste when the result of the effort or in this case the energy used leads to noting of value but we already know that BTC is valuable. So by this argument alone, BTC mining is definitely not a waste of energy.

For sure, mining is now becoming more difficult and more and more hardware is required ruling out individual miners but it goes to show how far this process has become - such a complex social aspect that now governments are finding ways to reduce its size.

If you spend $99 dollars and get $100 back then its worth mining.
So generally speaking, the amount of money wasted mining bitcoin is roughly equivalent to the amount of coins generated by mining.
This actually puts a cap on the value of bitcoin which is why its never going to get to a million like some people claim

Well, if you asked me to think about mine, then I would say that what you say is all right. There are two reasons for saying those things. 
 
1: Where is it illegal to use bitcoin then how can I say about bitcoin mining? It is quite impossible to say without any practical experience from my own life. After watching videos on YouTube or reading blogs, I received two types of responses: first, crypto people will claim that there is no problem and will show their proof.And crypto people say it's problematic. So I hope you understand. Without understanding, I can say exactly what I mean.
 
2: After reading your writing, I believe I can agree with your point of view.And that is all my point. Because you elaboret everything clearly. That's why I understand easily. 
 
Thanks for it.

The cost of mining bitcoin is insignificant compared to the cost of producing, managing, processing, transacting, and destroying fiat currency. 

Think about how much energy the federal mint uses to print fiat.  How much do banks use, who's only purpose is to transact in fiat?  Think lights, heating, cooling, construction of buildings, computers, networking... it's staggering.

Think how much energy is used by the credit card industry.  100's of thousands of employees, most requiring electricity for various purposes (computers, lights, heat, construction, etc..)

I'd bet, on market cap basis, fiat uses orders of magnitude more energy overall than bitcoin. 

Going by the first law of bitcoinminnigdynamics stating that Bitcoin can neither be altered nor destroyed but can be gained using highly sophisticated computers to solve complicated mathematical problems (alogrithim).
How then would it be said this doesn't contribute to the waste of energy. First the fleet of sophisticated matches couple with the amount of energy it would require to keep this device to keep on minning.

If energy is really stored back as Bitcoin which could be a compensation for the minners how about the people within that very area where this energy is been consumed massively what would likely be their benefit

Energy issues is totally a shit thing for them to put focused on and this is something a shit topic that they would really be concern off considering that there are still things which does have energy consumption issues

than with bitcoin mining and thats they should really be focusing on rather than with Bitcoin.I do rather believe that this is just an alibi or excuse for them to sue out something about bitcoin.

This is just not really that serious of an issue if you do really look into the bigger picture.It doesnt really make sense.

the issue of bitcoin is raised by linking it to the environment, especially energy waste. it is a matter that is not worth discussing, because what we know today is that the use of energy mining is not as big as the use of electricity by factories, buildings, or other public facilities. It's clear there is a party behind playing the issue of bitcoin to get to a secret agenda

Yeah, but it more like TEN people spend $99 mining and ONE person gets $100 back. That is $990 spent to make $1. Now times that by a few thousand to get the real figures.

Or look how much energy is wasted on mostly unnecessary grass lawns. Here's a good article (https://www.onlynaturalenergy.com/grass-lawns-are-an-ecological-catastrophe/) on this matter.

Overall, Bitcooin contribution to the CO2 emissions is around 0.05%. So, there are many other industries worth bringing to the attention in this regard.


I'd like you to elaborate your point because I think I'm not the only one who can't get it.

Where is the constant changing of the BTC/USD rate in your calculations? And do you know that there are times when people keep mining at a loss for months in hopes of the future price increase?

Mining bitcoin isn't really a waste of energy because the miners of it are technically are being rewarded with every amount of bitcoin they mine using their supercomputers and mining rigs. It isn't as if they are just wasting energy over something that has no value and use at all. Bitcoin has a corresponding value in fiat depending on the market trend. Every mined bitcoin has a value no matter how small or big it may be. Miners can sell their bitcoin or they can opt to hold it. And if they will hold it for some time, the value may increase or decrease depending on the market season and movement.

Right now, they are eyeing using renewable resources to be their source of energy that could power their mining system. If they would be able to pull the eco-friendly and cost-friendly energy source in mining, it will be really great because the non-renewable energy source won't be affected as much, which I think is the issue of most people in mining bitcoin.

mining bitcoin does require a lot of electrical power, but every mining that is done is not in vain, meaning that the electricity that runs out is not in vain, so it's natural, but if electricity is wasted it becomes a problem, like playing games that don't produce nothing.. just waste energy and consume electricity only..

I don't think its a waste because  you will earn from mining and eventually it will circulate as you use it to buy goods/ pay bills. There is no difference from playing games and mining, it depends on who will perceive those two. Both are beneficial for those who can afford/ do it.

Those are interesting points that you raised. I always have this notion that mining costs too much energy and power due to the amount of electricity needed to power and charge those CPUs for computing. That is why, most miners placed their equipment strategically in a place where air and breeze are continuous in order to prevent releasing too much heat.

Though the process of mining (like you explained) costs energy, the output of such is valuable than what it is compared before. Miners will always be relevant as long as there are cryptocurrencies to transact with. Without these miners, no one would be able to send one BTC to another wallet.

When fossil fuels were being used, it was really a huge waste of energy to mine Bitcoin. Elon Musk also indicated this big problem to the environment and he was right about it also. But for some time, I see that renewable energy sources are being used for Bitcoin mining mostly. And this means that we don't need to call it as "waste of energy" anymore. It is getting better considering the environment.

Bitcoin mining requires energy. Impossible to mine bitcoin without electric power.As a result of many machines and tools this bitcoin mining work is done. Adequate current is required for mining Adequate mining in some countries resulted in a shortage of electricity in those countries.Must do bitcoin mining Energy is needed.

When Bitcoin mining is started huge energy is used it is true . When miner mining gold , oil , Gass or any king of natural resources from that time they use energy and that cost included those product price value .that time no one says waste of energy but when time to mining Bitcoin in this time some critic says BTC mining waste of energy this is not true actually . People should think it's a costing of yield

This is real case now many countries feeling bad about this as it's consuming some good energy Just because of this many countries facing serious troubles and on other side the biggest costs in mining comes from electricity. The energy consumed by Bitcoin mining is necessary. It can turn energy into capital gains and at the same time make assets more secure.

If we were able to pull the non-renewable energy source in mining, it will be really great because the non-renewable energy source won't be affected as much as others are creating problems right now, hopefully this will help this community.

What in my opinion about "a waste of energy" is when we are using the energy for something that is nonsense, for something with no benefits, and it only wastes energy for none.
But here, we use energy to mine Bitcoin. How much will depend on how we mine.
But so far, why people are always concerned about Bitcoin only?
Whereas there are so many other industries that are using energy more and more than Bitcoin?

When the ship was invented, it burned with black smoke and burned the coal that a family needed for a whole year in one day, which was a waste of energy.

The randomness of pow comes from the entropy of the time atom, so the right to receive rewards is actually in the hands of God. He likes Bitcoin very much.

you must not make multiple posts at the same thread , you can compile your post in single delivery to prevent spamming a discussion .

This is just come into senses because Those who pointing that Mining bitcoin is a waste of time because they dont understand or wanted to know what is bitcoin and what is the benefits to the people.

if they can only see the advantage of this? then they may not create words against this.

Though this kind of cycle will be the one could destroy the environment. I think it was double meaning for me since it is waste of energy (your effort) and also waste of energy that is tangible like electric . When we are talking to the first one then it isnt really waste of energy since you could earn from it your are right but in the 2nd meaning is about the energy in earth, i think it is a waste if it is not renewable since most of the energy right now is powered by coal mean could lead to more carbon cosumption but when we convert to renewable energy then it is another topic

maybe that's true, but in terms of taxing energy use of course other industries get more importance than bitcoin mining.
Bitcoin mining is done by more people or companies of course it will consume more energy. while regulations related to crypto mining may not be considered in some countries.

because we can't find a trusted site, and generally mining website will not give you payout

People waste a lot of time in doing unnecessary things that are not valuable, but it has value to them. Bitcoin mining is very important and will never be a waste of time, because it has a very huge value of Fiat, and has a huge success in the entire future. In respect to waste of electricity,bills are paid so even if it waste electricity, and it has value that paid for it, I think there is no any problem, though we do investment to gain profit.

Bitcoin Mining isn’t a waste of energy because it supports the network. As it can secure transactions, fulfil contracts, and protect from counterfeit, Bitcoin has value as a currency that is created and backed up by energy.

How can you proof Bitcoin is no nonsense? We are all in our crypto bubble ask people outside about using bitcoin.
I would like that crypto (not Bitcoin for several reasons) gets more common. But think about having put the energy of a whole big country in nothing more then creating less then 5 MB of software code every 10 minutes. And its nothing more then that. We think its more but who can proof? Fiat system is run with changes for 150 years. Maybe its bad but its working system all over the wourld. You can take your VISA Card from germany and pay your beer in japan.
And when ask why I am here: never said its a bad speculative asset ;-)

If using electricity, paper pulp, cotton and dye to print banknotes is not a waste of energy and resources, then mining Bitcoins is also not a waste of energy. You are getting an output in this case, which is indestructible. On the other hand, you are spending so much of your resources in printing banknotes and minting metal coins, which are having a limited shelf-life. So which one is a better example of wasting energy? The Bitcoin energy consumption is just an excuse put forward by fiat supporters to tarnish the reputation of BTC. There is hardly any relevance with such arguments.

But a lot of people are enough able to buy mining instruments but they can start mining for restriction, If example i can not start in my country due to government restrictions. Where people can earn money by mining how it's a waste of electricity. How much electricity we are wasting unnecessarily in everyday just by using electronics gadgets.

people who say bitcoin is a waste of energy they don't actually know the real benefits of bitcoin.  because the concept of people using energy to mine bitcoins is purely for profit.  so it's actually purely business.  and business can be referred to as productive, not consumptive.  So I'm quite surprised if anyone says bitcoin destroys energy and wastes energy is wrong.

Bitcoin miners do not waste time and are able to generate fantastic FIAT values. about the waste of electricity you mean not that simple. Waste of electricity is not a matter of being able or not to pay for it, but the mining process can increase the Global Warming Effect and this is already happening. Some Miners are expected to use environmentally friendly and renewable energy, because it will be better and will save all.

Earlier you guys were mouthing off to me about bad grammar and sentence structure.  This reads like a drunk 1st year english student in a brothel at a dubai marketplace.

In countries where there is a shortage of fuel oil and a shortage of electricity, bitcoin mining is considered a waste of energy. However, our country has a large supply of mineral oil and electricity, In our country, bitcoin mining will not be considered as a waste of energy

You could really able to read lots but it doesnt matter as long it is understandable and also not all users on this forum can speak english fluently so better not to be harsh on this one.

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Going back on topic about Bitcoin mining is a waste of energy? This is just a lame excuse considering that they could also get from other natural sources too
and to think that waste of energy is more than on what we are seeing on some things that consumes the most compared to bitcoin mining.
They really just dont like bitcoin in the first place.

if someone says that bitcoin wastes a lot of energy so that it has the potential to pollute the environment for me that is absolutely not true, considering bitcoin is a digital currency and is very different from other things such as those that cause air pollution that can pollute the environment, by digital system adopted by bitcoin it would be very unlikely that bitcoin would be a waste of energy

In every country there are different areas in respect to the amount of electricity produced. In one part can be not enough of it, while in other part can be more than needed. And miners normally tend to build their mining farms in places like the latter. They use the electricity which would be wasted otherwise. Although electric energy can be stored, it's often not cost-effective, and it's much better for the power plants owners, and for the environment, if this excessive energy is used one way or another.

It irritates me when I see Bitcoiners getting defensive all the time while defending the power consumption from cryptocurrency mining. Why are we not able to shout back that printing of fiat currency causes a lot more damage to the environment? Bitcoin once mined is imperishable. On the other hand, banknotes get torn or soiled after a few years of usage and needs to be replaced. And Bitcoin mining requires mining equipment and electricity. Printing of banknotes require paper pulp, cotton, dye and a huge number of other ingredients.

Bitcoin mining is a waste of energy it is an opinion and not clear. If that is true why are so many people still mining Bitcoin. Indeed, mining requires energy and powerful tools, but it will all change in the form of Bitcoin value. besides that the mining process also spends a lot of money to pay for the energy they use not for free or for free. So I think Bitcoin mining is better described as converting energy into Bitcoin, not a waste of energy.

I guess miners are few in those countries that have a minimal source of electricity, of course, it's obvious that the electricity is very expensive in that country, basic supply and demand concept. So basically, miners only exist in those countries that have a lot of electricity sources and besides, it's not really profitable in mining and it's a waste of money if the electricity is expensive since mining has high power consumption.

Bitcoin mining requires energy, even a lot of energy, but not wasteful and not to the extent that it pollutes the environment or is the main cause of global warming. It's all just a theory to suppress bitcoin by some bitcoin haters. Bitcoin like any other industry has to consume energy and produce emissions. But they all serve and bring real value to people's lives and so does bitcoin.

No, it's not that obvious. The price of electricity depends on the price of generation, transmission and distribution, and in low income countries these prices can be lower than in the developed ones. Also it depends on government taxes or subsidies. It's not like scarcity dictates higher prices. There are many other factors to consider.

Bitcoin mining (using specialized computers to solve cryptographic puzzles), like mining any other resource, requires energy. The inventor of bitcoin, nicknamed Satoshi Nakamoto, likened bitcoin mining to gold mining. “Gold mining is a waste, but that waste is less than the utility of having gold available as a medium of exchange.” 9 The same is true for bitcoin. Unlike many other resources, the power for bitcoin mining can be derived from renewable resources and from waste streams from conventional energy sources. Today, the Bitcoin network uses about 140TWh of energy. U.S. oil and gas industry gas alone can generate 150 TWh13 of electricity. The cost of running a mining machine is almost entirely the cost of electricity. However, unlike most electricity customers, miners can rely on intermittent power and close proximity to energy sources. Bitcoin already uses more energy than some countries but still accounts for only 0.3% of total global energy consumption. However, it is not the scale of the energy that the Bitcoin network consumes, the fact that the network will not have any long-term environmental consequences.

You know, posts like this are generally considered garbage not only because there is no valuable information in them, but also because some misinformation is present. It is absolutely not guaranteed that a mining farm "will get huge profit", but even if it were, it would not mean that Bitcoin mining wasn't a waste of energy for the world in general.

What I liked about your post though, is that it reminded me of aantonop saying that the money paid by miners for electricity consumption could be used for creating more renewable sources of energy, and thus the whole process would be good for the world.

Energy for mining is really not wasted as miners are all big investors in processing and cooling systems, almost bringing a huge supply to the electronic market, besides, the electricity costs are paid at the right time every month and as a part of the cost for the country, it can be said that they do not waste energy but on the government side, these energy sources can be more optimal and bring more taxes for them. It's not entirely wrong to feel a waste, too much tax goes uncollected while crime and crooks are rampant in the crypto system, no contribution to the country and just personal ambition

Bitcoin mining is very effective because it can use solar energy or other alternative energy, there is no reason for anyone to prohibit bitcoin mining because it uses very little power even for mining and produces 100 btc of power required very small and greater use of lights at 10 intersections in a big city.

Thats rubbish because the ASIC Miner itsself go to trash also...
when it would be CPU Mineable only would not have this problem

Those companies who own the electricity can benefit on mining, but those who are not or in just a residential area will only cost more in theirelectricity bills. It will be better to trade tgan to mine. The cost of mining rigs and energy consumption will not be enough for the profit that can get in mining.

I'm not sure you've actually covered anything substantial, your whole post basically consists of "This is how energy is produced, Bitcoin needs energy, Bitcoin has a value.". This is far from giving any sort of valid defense or understanding of why the world should look favorably upon this cryptocurrency versus the existing network of payment processors which have much more efficient systems. The ultimate question you should be looking to answer would be - is the excessive energy consumption of cryptocurrencies (versus highly optimized servers and databases which can process transactions instantly with minimum cost) worth the decentralized cash-like functionality that cryptocurrency gives to the people?

There comes a point when it costs more to run your mining farm than it makes in transaction fees.  Fees are only going down and farm size is only going up.  Once we hit that point it is just a couple of companies sharing the blocks out between themselves.  Hardly decentralised.

Bitcoin mining isn’t a waste of energy? If someone is doing some task without proper planning then the Best of the best work will prove a waste of time. Question is that why a lot of people in the world are mining bitcoin If mining is giving loss.
There are also many successful miners who earned many bitcoin through mining. So the person those are a failure in this task. In fact, they are doing mining without proper planning, strategy, study, and knowledge, and they do not have the art of mining.