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Title: How does this website stay up? Post by: QuickAccount on August 27, 2021, 03:26:06 PM Hey guys, I was wanting to ask a question and im sorry if it has already been answered, but how does this website stay up? It was created by Satoshi, meaning that he owned the domain and owned the server that the website was hosted on. How does this website stay up if it is not longer maintained by Satoshi? Do some of the admins have registrar and server access?
Title: Re: How does this website stay up? Post by: tranthidung on August 27, 2021, 03:40:20 PM Hey guys, I was wanting to ask a question and im sorry if it has already been answered, but how does this website stay up? It was created by Satoshi, meaning that he owned the domain and owned the server that the website was hosted on. How does this website stay up if it is not longer maintained by Satoshi? Do some of the admins have registrar and server access? Check the forum history.
It's surprising how well-documented history can become totally forgotten... Satoshi created the forum on Nov 22, 2009, and was head administrator until almost 2011. Then Sirius was head administrator until 2012, which is when I took over. Cobra also owns the bitcointalk.org domain name. I consider the forum to be basically owned by or at least dedicated to the Bitcoin community, though; I don't call anyone an owner of the forum. That wiki article is kind of terrible... There was a period where both Sirius and I were active administrators. For convenience, I reckon Jan 1, 2012 as when I became head administrator, though it was actually a gradual transition starting before and ending after that. The story of how I became head admin is actually pretty boring. Moderators were needed, so I was made a global moderator. Then admins were needed, so I was made an admin. Then over time the other admins slowly lost interest and resigned until I was the only one left. I guess most of the people who were around here to see this have more-or-less left the community now. That's a bit sad. It's not entirely clear, but for simplicity I usually say that I became head admin at the beginning of 2011, a little over a year after the forum was created. The forum was originally located at bitcoin.org/smf, then forum.bitcoin.org (hence the redirect), and finally bitcointalk.org. Fun fact: The name "bitcointalk" was invented by Jeff Garzik, and he's the one who bought the domain. Domain access Quote from: theymos link=topic=3284381.msg34255007#msg34255007 Bitcointalk.org: - Cobra has ultimate control over the domain name. I have access to the domain name settings. - I run the server. Cobra has no access to the database or server. - The BTC is held by myself and the treasurers. Cobra has no access. Satoshi created both bitcoin.org and this forum, which was originally at bitcoin.org/smf. Later, the forum got its own domain name, but due to this history, bitcoin.org and bitcointalk.org have traditionally been linked, and for quite some time Cøbra and I have together managed the domain names. However, Cøbra has never had much involvement in bitcointalk.org's operation, and I haven't involved myself in bitcoin.org for a couple of years, so the linkage between the two no longer really made made any sense. Therefore, we decided to separate the domains: I no longer have any access to the bitcoin.org domain name, and Cøbra no longer has any access to the bitcointalk.org domain name. The two sites should be viewed as totally separate, which in practice they have been for years. There will be no changes whatsoever on bitcointalk.org due to this, and I'd assume that the same will be true of bitcoin.org. The bitcoin.org open-source project (https://github.com/bitcoin-dot-org/bitcoin.org) has been advancing steadily, and I hope and expect that it will continue to do so thanks to the efforts of its contributors. Thanks to Cøbra for handling much of bitcointalk.org's domain-name-related work in the past. Title: Re: How does this website stay up? Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on August 27, 2021, 03:50:19 PM I've been a member of the forum for quite a while (though I'm not an old-school one by any means), and it actually surprised me that I didn't know most of what Theymos said in that post and that I'm as ignorant of forum history as I am. Bitcointalk is where I spend a good deal of my time on the internet, so you'd think I'd pay attention to its history.....so anyway, thanks for linking to that. I would have never found that specific post unless I knew Theymos wrote it (which I didn't).
OP, the forum is obviously not dependent on Satoshi anymore, and the fact that it exists should prove that it changed hands at some point, even if you didn't know the details. So Cobra owns the website, right? What is it an administrator does, exactly? And I'm talking about Theymos. Is he paid to be an administrator, or does he just share in the forum's profits? Title: Re: How does this website stay up? Post by: tranthidung on August 27, 2021, 04:02:18 PM So Cobra owns the website, right? Only in the past.Since April 2020, only theymos has access to the forum domain name. I don't know, theymos bought it or it is just their personal deal to separate ownership of the forum domain and Bitcoin.org domain Satoshi created both bitcoin.org and this forum, which was originally at bitcoin.org/smf. Later, the forum got its own domain name, but due to this history, bitcoin.org and bitcointalk.org have traditionally been linked, and for quite some time Cøbra and I have together managed the domain names. However, Cøbra has never had much involvement in bitcointalk.org's operation, and I haven't involved myself in bitcoin.org for a couple of years, so the linkage between the two no longer really made made any sense. Therefore, we decided to separate the domains: I no longer have any access to the bitcoin.org domain name, and Cøbra no longer has any access to the bitcointalk.org domain name. The two sites should be viewed as totally separate, which in practice they have been for years. Title: Re: How does this website stay up? Post by: bL4nkcode on August 27, 2021, 04:13:18 PM Is he paid to be an administrator, or does he just share in the forum's profits? Highly possible. From all of the work/update made by theymos especially if there's a forum problem, downtime, ddos and etc, compensation should be a must.I just don't know about cyrus, since he's still a working mod, maybe his rate is much higher than other mods. Title: Re: How does this website stay up? Post by: jackg on August 27, 2021, 04:28:50 PM Is he paid to be an administrator, or does he just share in the forum's profits? Highly possible. From all of the work/update made by theymos especially if there's a forum problem, downtime, ddos and etc, compensation should be a must.I just don't know about cyrus, since he's still a working mod, maybe his rate is much higher than other mods. Maybe they just mined a few blocks back in 2011. I'd assumed they'd just take money out every so often though to pay for forum expenses and their own. I'd imagine the aws operation for running this is quite expensive so I doubt them taking a normal site head operators salary would be unreasonable - compared with how much funds the forum has too. I thought the forum was owned by some sort of charity that is owned by a few people/the community so that it can stay alive if something happens to one of the admins - although I guess we have archive sites for historical reference anyway. Title: Re: How does this website stay up? Post by: RickDeckard on August 27, 2021, 09:24:54 PM Good work on that write up @tranthidung, I also wasn't aware of some of the forum's history (namely the passage of "torch" that came to be to theymos) so for sure I can say that today I've learned a bit more. I would also like to share the following AMA[1] from Martti Malmi who supposedly is the original founder of this forum. The introduction is quite clear:
Quote To put it briefly: Back in 2009 when I was studying computer science at Helsinki University of Technology, I was looking into the possibility of decentralized monetary systems as a means of actually changing the world for the better - giving people the control over their own life and money. Bitcoin, recently published, was the only completely decentralized and feasible option out there. I emailed Satoshi offering my help and ended up working on bitcoin.org, setting up the Bitcointalk forums and also contributing to the Bitcoin release 0.2. Here is the section of the AMA that is applicable to this discussion:Quote Why did you handover the bitcoin.org and the forum to theymos? Did you know him? And why only to one single person? I don't know him personally. He was made a forum and server admin back in 2010 because he had proven himself trustworthy and was able to spend time working on it. Bitcoin.org and bitcointalk.org domains are owned by someone trusted by Satoshi, while theymos has management rights. I resigned from the management, because I'm not active in the community and don't want to be involved in the politics. I don't want to say too much about the debate, as I'm not that familiar with all that's going on. On another topic regarding "how does this website stay up" I also managed to found the initial thread[2] where theymos first asked about help regarding holding the forum wealth: I am holding too much money for the forum. This is contrary to the forum's otherwise decentralized structure. I'd like to get some extremely trustworthy people to hold smaller chunks of the forum's money (maybe 250-500 BTC per person). To learn more about theymos interaction within the userbase I also found this excellent thread[3]that tries, according to the OP (@Steamtyme), to collect posts that "either clarified misinformation or provided an expanded explanation of the forum mechanics.".- You probably need to have been active in the Bitcoin community for at least a year. - You probably need a very high OTC rating. - You need to have dealt with far more BTC at one time than what you'll be holding for the forum. - The list of "treasurers" and how much money they're holding will be public. - The contract will be quite complex (I haven't finished writing it yet), as this is the forum's money, not mine, so you'll have to know what "the forum" is and in exactly which circumstances you can release the money. - Full reserve is not a requirement, but you will be responsible for returning the money within a few weeks of a legitimate request no matter what. If you're interested, post here with how much you would charge for this service and what your reserve policy would be. [1] https://forum.bitcoin.com/ama-ask-me-anything/i-m-martti-malmi-early-bitcoin-developer-and-the-original-founder-of-the-bitcointalk-org-forums-ama-t2770.html (https://forum.bitcoin.com/ama-ask-me-anything/i-m-martti-malmi-early-bitcoin-developer-and-the-original-founder-of-the-bitcointalk-org-forums-ama-t2770.html) [2] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=141503.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=141503.0) [3] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5136271.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5136271.0) Title: Re: How does this website stay up? Post by: PrimeNumber7 on August 28, 2021, 07:53:05 AM What is it an administrator does, exactly? And I'm talking about Theymos. Is he paid to be an administrator, or does he just share in the forum's profits? Here is a reasonable description (http://roberthalf.com/blog/salaries-and-skills/the-web-administrator-creating-website-magic) (here is a second (https://learn.org/articles/What_is_a_Website_Administrator.html)) of what a site administrator does. I would expect theymos' role as an admin to be somewhat similar to either of the above descriptions. Although theymos is also the de-facto owner of the forum, so anything about getting specifications, business requirements, or making recommendations from/to the client would not apply. Basically, he has the responsibility to maintain the forum, implement upgraded/new features as he sees fit, and ensures the forum stays online (for example by protecting it from DDoS attacks). He will also research, and fix (when appropriate) issues involving the forum codebase, and database. I believe the other admins' roles are limited to issues involving the forum database, for example, checking old IP addresses. Theymos (and the other admin(s)) also serve as a moderator that is a higher rank than global moderator. Part of this is implementing policy, and part of this is settling disputes. I understand that theymos pays out a percentage of forum revenue to moderators that is based on a confidential formula that tasks various moderation actions into consideration, and theymos is paid for his moderation actions. I have no idea what factors the formula takes into consideration, but I don't think it pays theymos for his administrator duties, but does pay him for his moderator duties, or at least this is my speculation. My understanding is the forum is a separate legal entity from theymos, and theymos does not take profits out of the forum. Title: Re: How does this website stay up? Post by: Kittygalore on August 28, 2021, 04:29:32 PM I'm sure that it's not @satoshi who has owned the domain, maybe at first when he wanted to create a new site for bitcoin. I think it's owned by different people now plus this forum has a lot of bitcoins so they can afford to stay up, they have the donations to shoulder the expenses.
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