Bitcoin Forum

Crypto.com has published a report (https://assets.ctfassets.net/hfgyig42jimx/2tkZ3J2QmBUX2xA5oD5DLS/b2bec8bf0967c352130f986467cf384b/Looking_Back_on_2021_and_2022_Predictions.pdf) asserting that it expects one billion crypto users by the end of 2022.

Some excerpts:

According to Crypto.com research, there were over 292 million crypto users worldwide as of 30 November 2021.

[...]

Crypto will become a fixture in the alternative asset class for investment portfolios. The first crypto ETFs launched this year were met with demand beyond their capacity, suggesting that more crypto instruments in the mainstream finance industry will soon follow.

[...]

On the technical side of things, the crypto industry will have to scale fast to meet its exponential demand. Cross-chain DeFi protocols will become the norm, paving the way for a multi-chain future of replacing the siloed chains of the past.

Depends what they specifically mean by "users". If they actually mean people who actually use cryptocurrencies for their specific purpose or people who actually hold bitcoin as a hedge or a long term hold, I kinda doubt it. If they meant people who register on custodial exchanges just to temporarily ride on hype, then maybe.

That would be pretty nice if it happened. Bitcoin was over 1 Trillion in Market Cap at one point this year. I can only imagine what that would be at if there are more than double the amount of "users" as Crypto.com is stating..

No question that 2022 can be another year for more cryptocurrency adoption but projecting that users can be reaching up to 1 billion - that number can be hard to reach not unless maybe there can be a consortium of organizations that got money to spend on promotions or marketing. Now, if there can be at least five more small countries that can be adopting Bitcoin as a legal tender just like El Salvador, maybe that can helps a lot with the goal of one billion. Anyway, whether the industry can reach that target or not does not matter to all of us, what is important is we are growing at a good rate everyday.

It's for the entire crypto community right and not just their number of users? There are also a lot of users from Coinbase and Binance, including the other exchanges that are also popular to this date.

The count is inevitable to grow because the market keeps on growing and growing and that's really bound to have a lot of users.

Oh god, again with the hundreds of millions of users, we are constantly bombarded with those numbers and if you look at the damn blockchain there is right now 1 full block out of 5, bitcoin does 300k a day and etherum 1.2 million, adding all of Binance tokens and the other major coins we get to 10 million and that is transactions, one user could and should do a lot of them to be considered "user".
At the current number, it would mean each "users" does one! not more than that, every three weeks, common!

If we had those numbers we won't be lingering around $50k for this long, just imagine, 200 million!!!!!
India is quoted with 100 million users, for god's sake their prime minister was voted by 229 million, you have half of that is crypto users and there is no major initiative or protest against the current situation regarding cryptos?

There is a long way to 1 billion and we're just past the start line.

One more thing, the number of 1 billion might indeed be reached because crypto.com decided to include the digital yuan in this:
Why? God knows!

Kind dazed on that number but it's just a prediction on the contrary that might be a good thing, I think on the long run it's expected for an increase.

I guess that make some sense on their prediction, I wonder why they included it as a reference for this prediction.

Crypto.com is also one of these companies that are advertising on different sports/events. You see their jersey on NBA, UFC, and even European football leagues. They call it partnership but they probably spent a significant amount of money.

Having said that, it's only natural that they come up with predictions like that. They're expecting their marketing efforts to bear fruit$.

They don’t mention how they predict the 1B users by end of 2022, but briefly going over their report, and the chart on page 18 for 2021 (still logically lacking a month’s data), it looks like they might have made a rounded-up linear projection: If 2021 tripled from start to end, 2022 should at least triple the numbers of end of 2021 (their potential thought, not mine).
That roughly makes up for the 1B users projection, although, were it the method used, there should be some notes that back the hypothesis in an ever changing market and regulatory environment.

The actual number of users for 2021 is depicted here (https://assets.ctfassets.net/hfgyig42jimx/29W6quEoTbgrDkrpMPDiFY/6cedbb57db84ec74f02bb8354f69f176/202107_Data_Report_OnChain_Market_Sizing.pdf) (as of July 2021), although the core calculus details are referenced here (https://assets.ctfassets.net/hfgyig42jimx/2v4KwFFtAHFNeTjRAuYZGR/74bcdc34919db586e2a495422287595e/Crypto.com_Data_Report_-_On-chain_Market_Sizing.pdf) (June 2020 report).

It’s an estimate, bases on many assumptions (i.e. data is extrapolated from Exchange deposit addresses for a group of Exchanges, combined with their market share and a survey that stated that 89% of crypto users use Exchanges) and additional prior surveys. I’ve whipped through enough to grasp bits of their methodology, but I’m not going to try to go full in-depth.

Given the number of assumptions and chain usage of data (which tends to propagate the error), it´s going to be as estimate with many side notes.

Given how aggressive the company is when it comes to promotions, I'm not surprised that they have reached for one sound and round number that will appeal to anyone who fantasizes about the new ATH and Lambos. But as much as they want to be optimistic, or does anyone want to believe that such a thing is possible, is it realistic that in 12 years the number of crypto users has reached a total of 292 million, and then in one year that number will triple?

Children believe in fairy tales, adults should know the difference between a fairy tale and reality, and I believe that this is nothing more than an attempt by the company in question to gain more new clients through rather ill-founded speculation.

Coinbase alone is claiming over 73 million verified users (https://www.coinbase.com/about). While there is a lot of skepticism about Crypto.com research, I still haven't seen any evidence their estimates (at least of usage up to now) are wrong.

Approximately 73 million verified users, 10,000 institutions, and 185,000 ecosystem partners in over 100 countries trust Coinbase to easily and securely invest, spend, save, earn, and use crypto.

I really can't ever see getting a "real" number at this point in time. And they are saying 1/8 of the world will have crypto. I just don't see it.
Too many people with no access to it. Too many people who don't know or understand it. Too many people who don't trust it. And so on.
If they said 500 million I could go possibly.

The other issue is getting "real" numbers:
Once person can have accounts on Coinbase & Gemini & Binance & many more accounts. And all the unregulated / non KYC exchanges that you can't even get user into from.
Truly accurate numbers are just about impossible.

Just my view.

-Dave

Even 292 millions users sounds a bit over rated! Because if tou dig at the ground level, you will realize that majority of the crypto holders are just investors who have either seen TV commercials or received a recommendation from their friends to invest in crypto to get rich. I would assume at leat 50% of these 292 millions are these kind of investors.

So even if the number goes up to 1 billion, a large percentage of that 1 billion will have no idea what blockchain is or what bitcoin is. What matters to them is the price and that's it!

Adoption it is!

Not really convinced about the “users” word. I don’t know if in their minds if they’re considering those “one-time and be gone” type of users in the count, but I would rather believe the word “awareness” than “users”. That’s just my own opinion.

Yes 2022 is going to be huge for crypto adopters like us especially the metaverse, but the numbers being projected by Crypto.com are insanely ridiculous.

Wow, we've reached a significant milestone.If I am not wrong, of these 300 million, almost 100 million plus users are from India. And they changed the whole crypto market when they accepted bitcoin. And I heard some news but I cannot find it right now, which was that the market analysis says 100k crore of Indian rupees has been invested in crypto after accepting bitcoin till this day. That is huge news. And it is true that the day after people learn about bitcoin, they begin to invest in it, and new users enter the market.If this continues, then 1 billion users is just a matter of time. If crypto.com predicted something like that, then it could happen too. They predict the reality.

If you compare it with the last few years then it is possible that cryptocurrency users would touch at the end of 2022. A lot of people introducing cryptocurrency day by day due to various reasons. It's quite important to spreading the word about cryptocurrency and Bitcoin with general citizens. Just do not expect all they need to invest, just introduce is enough to attract them later on. That's how Bitcoin enters our society. Recently many news published in our country about Bitcoin since it's illegal in my country. As a result, more citizens become more curious about Bitcoin and how this works exactly. So overall observation, I think crypto dot com report would be true,  or would near-miss as well.

It's already 11 years Bitcoin exist but the crypto users only 292 million or 27 million/year and they predict 708 million people will interested about crypto in 2022? It's really far than the realistic, not to mention market still in red which make new people will not really interested.

If Bitcoin will bullish in the next year I predict the highest crypto users only hit 400-500 million, nothing more but can less.

I wouldn't doubt crypto.com's prediction because users showing interest and actually using these digital currencies is growing on a daily basis and am certain if this data was to be collected and plotted on a graph this certainly would show the exponential growth and besides being among the biggest crypto service providers they are in a position to know.

This sounds like a very generous estimate, but even so it's merely around 4% of the population at best. And I'm sure it accounts for everyone who has some sort of cryptos, not merely for those who actually do anything with their cryptos from time to time. Even if the number of users triples within one year, which I doubt, it'll be less than 15% of the population, which is far from true global adoption. But I won't argue that in a matter of years the situation can change drastically, and cryptos will become as used as smartphones. That being said, people use smartphones many hours per day, whereas I'm not sure about all these crypto users. What also matters is how people use cryptos. If it's crypto trading, I'm not sure it's a big accomplishment.

Someone invented and rounded up the figure to 100 million, and I could bet that it is those who dream that something like this will happen one day, they actually do FOMO to attract others to invest. As much as you and some others have tried to point out the illogicality of these numbers, there are those who firmly believe in it.


Maybe you should read the post from @stompix, he doesn't think it's even close to what you think, and I also think that India does not have maybe even 10% of that number, unless all are very quiet and peaceful citizens who do not express their views. I wonder what will happen if India goes the way of China when it comes to cryptocurrencies - will we be able to survive it ::)

The only thing they can calculate is the number of people who have pass KYC and then the number of Crypto Users in 2022, and both metrics are inaccurate.
In general, if they say 10 Billion users, who will investigate them or try to falsify this news.
Perhaps all this talk was an attempt to pump the price and therefore it is possible to understand them under the promotional plans.

If we experience a global market crash like what happened in 2008. and the stock market crashes, people will look for a safe-haven and this they will turn to the people currency which is bitcoin and its associate, when this happens we can be sure the 1B users will be realized. We have a responsiblity to prepare and educate people about how it works so they won't fall victim.

Not only do they not express their views but they also seem to hide everything else, from nodes to businesses accepting crypto, and they are doing a perfect job at it. Let me understand how could this be possible if we count 100 million "users" in India and ...what..2 million in Bulgaria and 1 million in Croatia?  ;D
So India has  14 nodes, Bulgaria 38 and Croatia 15. We can't blame this on datacenters, common. On what can we blame data (http://=https://1ml.com/location) for LN nodes?

And speaking of...


You have 100 million users and a whole economy reshaped by merchants accepting crypto and not a few dozen poeple who would update this map?
https://talkimg.com/images/2023/06/12/AK7BI.jpeg

If we assume 10% of the population owns crypto and in a city of 17 million like Mumbai, you have 6 businesses listed while in Pardubice you have 12...something is definitely wrong.
Yes, you will get 100 million users at some point, but there is no way you have them now.

It was a big surprise to see Crypto.com advertised so prominently on the last Formula 1 race of the championship, so they're certainly pushing it out there. However it is in their best interests to hype up crypto because they're earning a huge amount from fees for relatively low input - hence them having such a big marketing budget. At present lots of people are becoming more wary of crypto rather than embracing  it, with some European countries pushing for it to be banned due to environmental issues. Until there is more clarity on that then people may stay away, and if any bans in Europe/North America were enacted it could crush the price of Bitcoin short term.

Again, Coinbase claims to have over 73 million users, and Crypto.com asserts there are at least 292 million crypto users globally right now, according to the sources I posted. This means Coinbase has about 25 percent of global crypto users on its platform. Is this unreasonable? Where is the proof these numbers are wrong?

Those who question the Crypto.com research are essentially saying the Coinbase percentage of global crypto users is higher. Implicitly, they are taking a very pro-Coinbase stance. After all, mathematically, the higher the number of global users assumed, the lower the market share of Coinbase.

I just realized something: the 292 million figure appears to be based on the assumption of Coinbase having a 25 percent global market share.

---

It looks like CoinShares has come up with a similar estimate (https://coinshares.com/research/institutional-crypto-adoption-three-factors-watch):

Both supporters and detractors have recently been likening bitcoin to the internet in 1997. Bitcoin has been growing at an annual rate of 113%, vs the internet’s growth at that time of 63%. Should bitcoin’s adoption slow to that of the internet’s, it would still lead to 1 billion users by 2024 and 4 billion users by 2030. With institutions such as Visa, Mastercard, Paypal, BNY Mellon, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan to name but a few all reversing their stance against bitcoin, that isn’t looking likely.

I think it is too optimistic to think that something like this is going to happen during the next year, I believe in the potential of bitcoin and all of that but to me if we had so many people using bitcoin and altcoins then I will see signs of this where I live, as I suspect that most stores would not like to miss on such a huge market, and since this is not the case then the only logical conclusion I can make is that the number of users we have is in fact way smaller than what those predictions may indicate.

It's a prediction and anything can happen no one knows, some projects will unfold in 2022 which will facilitate the ecosystem of cryptocurrency as a market. We'll all benefit if the prediction occurs to be true. But, We only have 365 days to achieve such a huge task which may seem impossible. 1 Billion is a big number, to be sincere I doubt that their prediction is correct, but one thing is for sure the market cannot be predicted correctly.

It's volatile, that means it can boost and as well dump at any point in time.

They just predict crypto users will cross 1B global users in 2022. And they also predict global crypto users will  5x in 2026. But it is just prediction it can be true or not no one know.

1.Crypto.com is biased.They are a crypto company,so they want more people to become crypto users.
We need data coming from a neutral source.
2.The info about 292 million crypto users worldwide can't be verified.How did they come up with that number?
Counting user accounts on exchanges is wrong,because one user can have multiple accounts and many accounts are inactive.
3.What does "crypto users" mean?This seems like a pretty vague term.Do they include De-Fi users and NFT users in this term?

I believe that the crypto industry won't hit 1 billion users,even after 10 years.Actually,the crypto industry might never reach such amount of users.
The total amount of cryptocurrency users around the globe is below 100 million,but that's just my assumption.

CoinShares, as I pointed out, has a very similar estimate. If we assume Coinbase has a 25 percent global market share with 73 million verified accounts (it seems plausible), then the 292 million figure is sensible. So Crypto.com, CoinShares, AND Coinbase have to be lying for this number to be so easily dismissed. So, is there a conspiracy by the industry to inflate numbers? If so, where is the proof of this?

So far all that we see is a bunch of opinions that this doesn't "seem" right. No facts or data have been presented to counter this research in this thread.

Exactly.

Without reading the 25 page report that's linked in OP, "users" has a broad definition, which is greatly convenient for marketing purposes. User meaning a crypto holder, trader, or individual that conducted a single crypto transaction in a calendar year of negligible value? Probably the latter. And the portion of users also don't include the Robinhood type crowd dabbling in shitcoins trying to get in on the latest pump and dump scheme.

Numbers are grossly inflated.

It is clear that the figures are more the subject of speculation than the real situation, regardless of the country in question - although it is more than obvious that some are really exaggerating. When it comes to Croatia, a few months ago there was information that the turnover from stock trading was equated with the turnover from cryptocurrency trading, which greatly upset the central bank and some other financial agencies in the country.

In addition, in Croatia it is practically possible to pay for everything with Bitcoin and other cryptos - which you can see if you visit bazar.hr - but in my estimation, we have less than 100 000 users, maybe even half of it.

Wait, But do they get this stats?

Is this about the wallets Held Bitcoin? because if does then this is Inaccurate because this cannot stand as Crypto users instead it can be owned not same people.

One of us have multiple crypto wallet that we come to Keep our coins so this is not really a legit statistics .

It's not a conspiracy it's called marketing.
And sometimes it can turn ugly, as was the case a few days ago with Nikola  (https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/21/22848108/nikola-settlement-sec-fraud-trevor-milton-investors) .

It's a common practice and it has been around a century before Bitcoin, from newspapers that would count subscription renewals as new customers to boost their publicity tarrifs, from phone companies that count the total numbers of sims as customers but when they publish data on revenue per customer they treat one business with 30 sims as one, to every single business out there. This practice has plagued the world forever and bitcoin is no stranger to it, it start years ago with Huobi and okchina faking volumes and number of customers by the thousands.


It's pretty easy, the claims are for 114 million bitcoin users, whatever that means and you have 800 million addresses ever used with 700 million transactions, in 12 years, this includes a business activity.
Now ignoring on top of that what a tumbler service can do, mining rewards, consolidations, it would still get 7 addresses per user and 6-7 transactions in a 12 years period. Adding to the mess is the fact that since 2018 we had an increase of address used from 480m to 800m, which obviously does not fit with the tripling of "users" in the last year.

Now, how many transactions do you think a bitcoin "users" should do a year to qualify him as a "user"? Grab your number and see if it fits the numbers above.

Should I throw in the fact that Visa has 180 billion transactions a year with a billion customers?
If we would go by the same metric and ignore the number of years that would leave only 4 million bitcoin users out of the claim of 114.

Try to see the positive in this, we're still at the beginning and still a long way ahead.

I feel that in 2022 there will be something new, but indeed we also have to see from what point of view they say it, if indeed they say that the user is an active person then I think it could be less accurate, but for passive users maybe it can happen.
on the other hand adoption will continue to increase by itself over time and I'm sure of it

Anyone has the right to predict what will happen in the future. As long as the prediction is rational then many will believe it. But if without valid evidence it is the same as an opinion. Proof through a wallet address is not enough. Because one person can have many wallets. But from the OP I think it's pretty good news, I think they're trying to herd the opinion of the world community. They want to introduce crypto widely. I still believe crypto will continue to grow, because we move forward and paper or metal currencies will slowly disappear.

IMO, I think the crypto.com research team is just simply positive in their prediction, and whatever reason they have it's not important anymore because what more important is we are growing as cryptocurrency users worldwide are spreading fast like a wildfire for me that was already an achievement and we should support that positivity because we are riding on the same boat.   

Well all i can say is, its not surprising because every year crypto market always improving because of adaption and etc. So i wouldn't be surprised wherein even though there are some factors that can bring the market down as its always happened but cannot make the crypto market down very hard as always as well . ;D so better to accumulate more than wasting time asking if crypto will end because of some reason..lol

They are optimistic with their predictions but it is understandable as they are in this market. We don't know how many people will be involved in crypto this coming year, but we are positive that it will further increase. As we are still in this pandemic stage, many people will have the time to read more about crypto and be interested as we are going digital. It may not reached 1B users, but definitely, we will increase in number.

This is the closest to an attempt at a refutation of this data that I have seen in this thread, and it's largely speculative, much like the original post in this thread. I think it's fair to argue that a user can be someone who does a minor transaction on the blockchain - that is usage, actually, sheesh - as well as people who buy bitcoin on a centralized exchange and leave it on the exchange. After all, a primary use case of bitcoin is as uncensorable digital gold - and this can be utilized even on a centralized exchange that custodies the bitcoin (with the risks of this type of custody provided to customers). The same is true of financial institutions that hold the bitcoin for others. The same is true of custodians of gold: if I pay an institution to hold the gold for me in a vault, I am still technically making use of that gold. This is logic, even if it violates some of the ethical or political beliefs of some here. I am going by how these terms are commonly used. In such a case, which I imagine is common, there may be no transactions on the blockchain to show this activity (arguably critical from an economic standpoint, however odious to some).

Given that Coinbase is now under regulatory scrutiny, I tend to believe their claim of having at least 73 million verified accounts. When we add in the popularity of altcoins among investors, I think an argument can be made that the Crypto.com research is plausible and perhaps even modest. On the other hand, a certain percentage of these verified accounts are inactive - it would be useful to have some estimate of this number to help determine actual users.

It’s just a prediction, but I am not going to doubt it because it is quite possible that it might happen before 2022 is over.  The rate at which people are adopting cryptocurrency these days is quite huge. Like these days almost everyone you are going to meet  knows one or two things about cryptocurrencies, especially Bitcoin.

So, since people are very much aware of these crypto currencies, it’s quite possible that from time to time they will get to experience things that will make them think about cryptocurrency, and as time goes on it is likely that their interest might develop into becoming part of the cryptocurrency community,which would lead them into adopting cryptocurrency. So this is quite possible to happen, we should be looking forward to it.

That depends actually on what the users they mean to say like I think it's the addresses that has transactions that they are basing or just a users who just had registered to different exchanges. But that data might not be accurate since if they based it on addresses there might be some addresses that doesn't work anymore like a lost bitcoin due to the user who forgot to give the key phrase to someone or a lost wallet or forgotten.

With many social media also helping to promote crypto to many people around the world, I agree with you it is very likely to be true that there
will be a billion crypto users by the end of 2022. Moreover, crypto is quite talked about on many social media, after having managed to reach
very high prices this year, and more and more people start learning crypto and investing in crypto. Because after all Bitcoin has been proven to be
able to provide a sizeable profit in a pandemic situation compared to other assets. This positive thing has finally made many institutions decide
on long-term investments in Bitcoin, it also makes more and more new people believe in the future of Bitcoin. It is very interesting to see
the development of crypto which continues to increase drastically, there are even countries that make Bitcoin a legal tender, I see positive news
keep popping up regarding crypto. So in 2022 there should be more new people joining, especially if the market can recover in early 2022,
I am optimistic that crypto users will increase even more rapidly.

Speculative?
The blockchain data doesn't lie, the only speculation is the amount of usage is needed for a person to be called a user.
On the other hand, the 200 million numbers come only from speculation and random percentages.


Then use the term owners and not users.
Because there is a difference between owning a car and driving a car.
And in crypto the difference is far bigger since you can own 100 accounts and never send a transaction on-chain, that would the equivalent of somebody who has 100 cars and hasn't driven a mile in his life.


Making use of something means USING it, you're paying somebody to take care of it, that's not using at all by any logic in this world.
Also, bet there are more people wearing gold jewelry than poeple holding gold bonds.  ;)


Verified users are not users that have activity and it does include users who have created an account to sell all their holdings.
Facebook has 3 billion users....lol!

You can do an experiment for your case, look at how many tx and how many transactions you have done in one year, look at the current quoted number of % owners in your country, and take the entire family or your co-workers, or your classmates or the poeple who you play games with and see if the percentage holds when including them all.
Remember that if we talk about 10% meanings that in every 4 gramps, 2 adult married couples, 4 kids family tree branch you must have at least one owner!!!Do you see that happening anywhere?  ;D Let's be serious.

But the biggest flow of this is that you ignore one thing in the custodial scenario.
Since all these 200 million users that haven't left a trace on the chain would need to be added in the last year you would still need an activity for the coins to flow in the custodial wallets, as those bitcoins that these people bought must have come from somebody, they weren't produced as gold bonds, so the coins HAD to move from previous owners to custodial wallets, yet that huge activity is again now shown in the chain.
Unless...somebody is selling those all-users IOU vouchers and not real coins.

To bring more data to this discussion, a Pew Research survey (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/11/16-of-americans-say-they-have-ever-invested-in-traded-or-used-cryptocurrency/) found that 16 percent of American adults had invested, traded, or made use of cryptocurrencies as of September 2021 (with the percentage higher among the youngest adults). If there are 209 million U.S. adults and 16 percent of them have used crypto, this translates to 33 million who have used it.

This figure of American users is about 11 percent of the 292 million global figure estimated by Crypto.com. So depending on what slice of the pie Americans have in overall global usage, the Crypto.com figure could be seen as an overestimate. On the other hand, it's clear that crypto usage is growing exponentially outside of the U.S. as well.

This would mean that we've lost 13 million users since January according to to a survey from NYDIG (https://nydig.com/research/nydig-bitcoin-banking-survey).

More data that that show surveys are useless.

Of course, those are not free. Those partnerships only mean crypto.com has agreements with those teams or companies for them to carry their brand. But all of those come with a price.

Anyway, I also noticed how crypto.com is very aggressive in their marketing. Not only are they involved in various sports and other events, you could also easily spot a billboard, a street ad, bus ad, taxi ad, and so in many countries promoting their name.


They are already bearing fruits. If I am not mistaken, crypto.com's mobile app has topped in certain countries in terms of download. And since their brand bears a generic name, the entire crypto market must have also benefited from it one way or another.

In a way I understand what you are saying but at the same time the prediction is simply too unrealistic, it is impossible we have as many users of cryptocurrencies as they claim and it is impossible we will each such a huge number in just a year too, if there were one billion users of cryptocurrencies then that will mean that we will see almost any business accepting cryptocurrencies as a form of payment in just a year, and such a thing does not seem possible to me.

Wont really be precise or something that do really talks about exact numbers and honestly there are lots of addresses which is only owned by single person and same as you said about
those lost addresses and there's no way that it can be counted on general sense or on exact numbers but one things for sure is that recognition and adoption is really on the move
and do becomes bigger as the years passing which is actually a thing that we are witnessing now even though numbers arent precisely know but at least we are seeing
that we are heading there.