Bitcoin Forum

I want to start brainstorming ideas what needs to go into the next video.

Keep your suggestions short and to the point and please let's keep this thread on topic. If you want to talk about anything else related to WeUseCoins, the marketing fund or whatever, start another thread.

I'll jump in with our own ideas soon enough, but it's pretty late, so I'll give you guys a chance to make the first couple of suggestions. :)

The first and most important question is: Who is our target audience for this video?

The second question is: What information do we want to include?

How transactions work: flow chart type thing? IE

Step 1: Address exchanged (see address on site, want to donate, etc)
Step 2: Payment announced (client broadcasts payment to everyone it is connected to)
Step 3: Payment distribution (most clients know of the payment, first to find a block will back it up as not a double spend)
???
Profit!

(got lazy, but feel free to continue on that theme)

First on the subject of target audience. There are already a lot of really good wiki pages which will always beat a video in some ways. Namely they'll always be more detailed, more up-to-date and easier to work through at your own pace.

However, it can be tough to know where to start. That's where we think the video can come in. I'm picturing something like this: It touches on the core concepts with a total length of about 10 minutes. It's simple enough for an average person with average technical knowledge to understand. Its metaphors and explanations are accurate enough though to give the viewer a basic functional knowledge of Bitcoin's properties and foundation. From there, the viewer can go on to read written materials for more in-depth information.

These are the most important points we want to address:

- Proof-of-work. How it works and how it makes the impossible, possible.
- Block chain. Common state in a decentralized system.
- Transactions. Signatures, verification, relaying and "smart" transactions (scripts). (Thanks, TheKid)
- Value. Why are Bitcoins worth something? Will they keep their value? Conversely, will deflation be a problem?

Note that we mixed technical and economic issues. For the economic stuff we'll try to get our script corrected by an actual economist.

I also want the segments above to be available as separate videos, which could be embedded into the corresponding wiki pages for example.

Ok, so what else should we include? What should we leave out? Do you agree with the target audience and basic format?

Which economist?

I think there should be a video targeted to merchants at some point.  These would be merchants who perhaps already have a site taking payments with PayPal, credit cards, etc.  The video would address topics like fees, reversibility, exchange and how to get started accepting Bitcoin.

I would agree.

Yeah, a video to potential merchants could be nice.

I'm not sure you should put too much efforts in a technical video. As you said, there's plenty of documentation out there that technical people could use to learn. Your talent in animations would probably be better directed by targeting non-technical people.

I'm starting to like the "What BitCoin is" and "What problem it solves" approach, as here (http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5420.msg79997#msg79997).  It helps get people off on the right foot, so to speak.

I think this is badly needed, however, I would wait until some more payment processing websites arise. Right now we only have mtgox and mybitcoin that serve that purpose (did I miss someone?). There should be a website that is VERY trustworthy and also, very professional. I personally think this is the most important thing Bitcoin needs right now. If you look at my thread here: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4667.0 (http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4667.0) - some of the merchants/organisations we try to convince to start using Bitcoin ask about the technical implementation. There must be something out there that they can trust and easily implement/use.

Sorry for swaying away from the topic, just I think it is too early to spend time and money on creating a video for merchants when there is no system they can use.

Whoever we can convince to spend the time. Suggestions and introductions are welcome.


I think things like proof-of-work are something that even "non-technical people" have to understand. We can list Bitcoin's supposed advantages with a lot of colorful marketing language, but Bitcoin's main selling point is its core architecture. Without understanding how Bitcoin works you can't understand why it matters.


Wow. I really like that explanation and with your permission we'll heavily borrow from it.


I agree, plus there is the obvious problem with a neutral entity such as WeUseCoins promoting any particular service. They are certainly free to use our material to create their own video, but we probably won't do any video promoting a specific commercial product. The website is a different story, here we will try to list any service that we think is solid and trustworthy.

I can assure you that there are academicly trained economists that are watching Bitcoin.  I can also assure you that none of them that you would want to review Bitcoin is going to be willing to stake their professional reputation yet.

If all you need is the script reviewed, either post it here in the economics section of this forum; jump to one of the many economic forums elsewhere.  I think that you'll find that there is no real consensus that can be achieved on any of the questionable parts.

Certainly--I would be happy for you to.

Yeah, you're probably right, there's this "trust issue". People questioning what miners are working for, how can they be sure there will be no inflation passed the 21 million limit, what are the risks of being stolen and so on.... these are all "technical" questions that could reassure people's trust on the system if properly answered.

I'd like to see some of the potential concepts that have been talked about on the boards.
I'm not talking about crazy stuff, just things that are reasonable and really not that far away.
Eventually instant transfers (trusted intermediary) and even debit cards that exchange to the currency of your choice on demand will be possible.
There are a lot of things that are not too far out and are really awesome.
You could also talk about how it gives an average person the ability to trade currency at the best rates.

This touches on a more general point: With the first video we strictly avoided talking about anything that is likely to change in the near future. That will still be true to a lesser degree for the next video.

Note that the second video is still a while out (late summer/fall 2011), I expect Bitcoin to mature some more in the meantime. I think it's very possible that the very points you mentioned will be a reality by then.

I'd also like to point out that it is not a good goal to pack into the video anything that we wish to communicate. The video should only contain the stuff that is hard to communicate in other ways. There are many options for getting informed about Bitcoin: podcast(s), websites, the wiki, etc. The video should cover the stuff that is hardest to convey via these means. And to me that's the core technical stuff, block chain etc. If we explain in the video how a double spend can happen, it's easy enough to write on a website that there is now a new cool way to detect it even before a confirmation in a block.

Let me know if you guys think we're on the right track with this view.

Describe the two cryptographic concepts bitcoin is based on:

- public key cryptography (focus on signing) ;
- proof of work (explain how this is used for a distributed time server) ;

I'm intending to do a tech talk on how BitCoin works some time in the next month or two. I have the slide plans ready, just need to organize it and ensure it gets recorded/uploaded to YouTube.

I don't think it's possible to explain BitCoin in 10 minutes, sorry. At least not without leading to very confused people. Simply stating what it does isn't enough, you have to explain why it does things that way. Why do we use a proof of work? Why is SHA256 trustworthy? Why is the block target time 10 minutes and not 30 or 1? And so on.

Proof of work is required to decentralised the network.  Gavin explains that quite well in one of his interview.   Basically in a decentralised network, someone could send two orders in the same time, while both of them can not be fullfilled together (not enough funds).  There has to be a way to decide which order is valid and which is not.  In a centralised system, one would just take the first one to appear.  But in a decentralised network, there is no 'first one to appear'.  The two orders appear at different times in different areas of the network.

Proof of work is used to elect one particular node that will arbitrate this and decide which order is valid, and which is not.  Is is basically used more as a "proof of time" rather than a "proof of work", but providing computing power is amongst the best on the market, proof of work IS proof of time.


I personnaly don't know.  But it is considered to be at present time.


As I understood it, longer target time would not be practical for electronic exchange, while shorter time would create too many chain forks.

Thanks for the answers, they don't seem that confusing to us but for the non geek explaining how all this works in a few minutes is pretty tough. Then it's even harder when you're trying to keep it interesting to the non geek. I could watch a 45min video on SHA256 but would .1% of the population... nope. I think the first video was really fun to watch. It's going to be hard to do that and get really technical at the same time. With the 2nd video though I'm assuming people watching will already be interested at least.

I'd rather see more non-technical bitcoin-related videos rather then "this is what the block chain looks like" technical videos.

I'm going to brain dump some half-baked thoughts:

So I watched this talk by Jonathan Haidt (http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html) on the moral roots of liberals and conservatives and started thinking about how it might apply to more mainstream acceptance of Bitcoin.  If Jonathan is right, then I think conservatives will find reasons to hate bitcoin, but liberals might be convinced to love it.

So what are the videos that liberals love?  Well, there's The Story of Stuff (http://www.storyofstuff.com/), which I think is wrong-headed (http://gavinthink.blogspot.com/2010/05/progressive-doom-and-gloom.html) but is incredibly popular.

I'd like to see a video targeted towards left-leaning people that argues from their world-view-- why the existing monetary system is unfair and benefits a rich elite at the expense of the working masses.  How Bitcoin can change that and be a People-Powered money, backed not by empty promises from rich bankers but by the strength and trust of the person-to-person Bitcoin Community.  How friends and neighbors using Bitcoin can keep money in local communities.  How using Bitcoin lets you interact with people all over the world, promoting peace and understanding.  How it is better for the environment than gold mining or trucking coins and cash to and from stores and banks.

Of course, early adopter libertarian-leaning bitcoiners will probably HATE it, but they wouldn't be the target audience...

Well, I think that's what someone called "narratives".

We still need a narrative for anonymity, though.

So to clarify, I do actually know the answers :-) I was just making the point that a video which explains the technology would need to cover these. An animated video isn't really appropriate IMHO.

I agree. In-depth technical stuff is best done through lectures or text.

Gavin's idea for left-oriented propaganda sounds nice. An overview of the economics for skeptical libertarians would also be good.

I think bringing politics into it is very dangerous indeed. One of the things that most fascinates me about Bitcoin is that it speaks to people from across the spectrum, so I feel like making a video that takes a certain viewpoint would only serve to divide the community and put Bitcoin in a corner unnecessarily.

That said, I also agree with what [mike] and theymos say about videos being the wrong medium for technical information. At least generally speaking. I actually went into the discussion with the graphical designer having something very close to what [mike] described in mind. (i.e. about an hour long, mostly lecture/talk, with some animated illustrations.) He (our designer) argued that you could make a more laymen friendly video if you keep it shorter and you could also use the individual segments to put them on the corresponding wiki pages, so they serve as more of an introduction to the text which is more in-depth. Right now I'm still totally open for any format - I think we have to be a bit opportunistic as well.

[mike]: Would you consider working with us such that you hold the talk and we do some animations for intro, outro and to illustrate some of the trickier bits?

I think that most of the early adopters (including those who adopt over the next couple years) will have to be somewhat technically or economically inclined.  The reason is that the typical technically and economically disinclined money-spender is under the spell of the "sausage factory effect" when it comes to monetary transactions and the value of currency (i.e. they like it but they don't want to know how it's made).  Foisting an economic exploration of the nature of value on such a person will be met with suspicion ("they're trying to convince me this is worth something when obviously it isn't") and then discomfort and cognitive dissonance ("you mean these pieces of paper in my wallet are really just pieces of paper?").

While many here may see this process of educating the masses to be politically expedient, among the broadest scope of potential users, it will just cause them to associate Bitcoin with confusion and discomfort.  I think that, before Bitcoin can have true mass adoption, we need a way to communicate to the public nor more and no less than "it just works".

That being said, if the audience is the "technically and economically inclined", go right ahead and explain how it works, because that is a fascinating topic.   :D

Not sure. It's true for now, but it might change in the next couple of years. Bitcoin has some significant advantages over other alternatives for some particular uses. For ex., I don't think that all users of silk road are technically or economically inclined, and for what I've read here, they're growing fast. Another ex. is international transferring... as soon as we have different exchanges in many countries, making international transfers with bitcoins will probably be easier and cheaper than the conventional means. That'll be particularly interesting for immigrants.

Obviously it's more work but it would be a lot easier to keep people interested like you said. If for example you want to learn about "solving blocks" and have a 5min or so clip on that. Obviously you could reuse a lot of the animation and it wouldn't be as bad as making everything from scratch. Especially if each video were only as animation intensive as needed to be. I would rather skip the stuff I know and learn the stuff I'm interested in. I know enough that I wouldn't want to watch a 1 hour long bitcoin video at this point but I'm interested in certain aspects like privacy etc.

I'm not sure if you've got a template that would make mostly lecture based shorter videos easy enough to produce. The voice over was amazing on this video too, hate to lose such quality.

My point wasn't so much that Bitcoin is too hard for the typical person to use, rather that it will be hard to market to the typical person if we operate under the assumption that everyone wants to know how it works before they use it.  More convincing would be testimonials and examples of how useful Bitcoins already are - basically what you're suggesting.  Unfortunately, at this point, it's a little bit too young for us to have much material to draw upon in that regard.

As for the current userbase, to "technically or economically inclined", add "or members of the political fringe".

At the end of this video have a guy keep yelling, "FOX...LIES!  FOX...LIES!  FOX...LIES!!!" over and over.

I believe the narrative for anonymity is "financial privacy" as a fundamental human right.  Where along the way did we lose our basic right to simple financial privacy?  Sheeple have been unfairly conditioned to think that secrecy equals concealment and nothing could be further from the truth. It is wrong to preach that we have to surrender basic financial privacy so that TPTB can endlessly chase the Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse.  Secrecy = Privacy,  Secrecy ≠ Concealment. See http://www.arraydev.com/commerce/jibc/9601-2.htm

I am an economist and I already have staked my reputation on Bitcoin.

Okay, then who are you?  Are you a professor?  Where are you published?  And in what way have you publicly supported Bitcoin?

Jon Matonis  http://twitter.com/#!/jonmatonis (http://twitter.com/#!/jonmatonis)

Former CEO of Hushmail and Chief Forex Dealer at VISA.

http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/ (http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/)

He is a huge supporter of bitcoin. You should follow him on twitter imo.

Creighto,

Please see my recent presentation at Gibraltar conference where bitcoin was presented to the Prime Minister of Gibraltar and the leading eGaming companies in attendance.  FYI, Gibraltar is the world capital for online gambling companies and it is the country's #1 industry.

http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2011/03/monetising-game-play-on-social-network.html
(the bitcoin section begins on page 11.)

My other "pre-bitcoin", Chaumian-type cryptocurrency work was completed during my tenure at VeriSign, Inc. where I was employed after VISA. One such 1995 piece was published by both the London School of Economics and the Libertarian Alliance:

http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2009/05/london-school-of-economics-publishes.html
(please note that this early digital cash work was subsequently referenced in a leading Economics textbook)

http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/econn/econn063.pdf

Outstanding!  I stand corrected.

This is really cool.
How well did you think the politicians of Gibraltar received the idea of bitcoin? Do you think Gibraltar might eventually apply for what is said here (https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2915.0)? If online gambling is the country main industry, I suppose they have interest in it... but I wonder how strong can international "diplomacy" be over these tiny countries...

It's not very clear to me how independent Gilbraltar is from UK, though. Actually before you saying they have a prime-minister, I thought they were technically just like a UK city overseas.
Does financial laws from UK apply in Gibraltar?

I have not been able to input early in the game, and I accept if this is too late.

What could be really very helpful for the bitcoin economy at this stage is attracting more investors.

A simple stand alone video or a part in the above discussed video that is transporting this message would be ideal.

A message track could be as follows:

Over the past years, most equity markets have not provided significant yields any more. For instance, the Dow Jones Industrial Average is down -14% vs. its high in 2007. And even worse, due to currency devaluation and deflation the stock markets are down -50 to -70% when measured in "real money": Gold.

Bitcoin is the new Gold 2.0 with even more advantages:
1) Bitcoin has grown over 3000% percent in the last 15 months, and is only bound to increase further since supply is fundamentally limited. 
2) Bitcoin is better divisible as Gold and can hence be used for payments.

etc. ...

Reddit and Slashdot would LOVE this video lol.

The attendees came from various places (i.e., Malta, Isle of Man, Ireland, UK, Bulgaria, etc) but they were all involved at some level in the online gaming industry. A member of the EU, Gibraltar has its own constitution and governs its own affairs via its own elected parliament. The independent judicial system of Gibraltar is modeled on the common laws of England & Wales which is seen as a benefit in business dealings (compared to Panama or Costa Rica for instance). Financial law follows the EU and the UK, but having said that Gibraltar has been very effective at leveraging the recent e-money legislation and e-money companies do quite well in Gib. Several have been set up and they are permitted to issue VISA and Mastercard prepaid cards without having a full bank license which is required in the US.

I wouldn't get too hopeful though about any country formally embracing bitcoin because they all still answer to OECD/FATF and Know-Your-Customer anti-money laundering laws (you would almost have to go Libya or Iran if you wanted to ignore OECD/FATF). Considerable pressure still comes from the US government on these matters and online gambling companies respect the US law of not allowing US players.

The bottom line is that the attendees do not seem to perceive the payment method as a "competitive advantage" so they happily receive the other fee-based payment alternatives.  They tend to focus more on the competition for eyeballs and affiliates feeding them traffic so in many ways it resembles the economics of online porn.

Nobody jumped up to argue this point, so I guess I will volunteer. It's time to out myself:

I am absurdly, offensively conservative. Take all the most hated stereotypes of conservatives, then exaggerate them, and that is me. I'm the guy who will talk your ear off about Jesus, vote against abortion, gay marriage, gambling, drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, adult businesses, etc and generally try to ruin people's fun any way I can. I take my family to church every Sunday, and I teach my kids about heaven and hell. I like my food with a side of hormones, pesticides, and genetic engineering, and I like it as cheap as possible. (I'm not interested in arguing about any of these things - I'm just trying to establish my credentials)

If a Jesus-freak like me can love bitcoins, then being conservative is no barrier.

I recognize that bitcoins can enable many forms of evil, but then, so can cash. Bitcoins are unbelievably useful, and like the internet, there will be both very good and very evil things that come out of that utility. I predict that in addition to laundering money and buying drugs, bitcoins will be used for some things that both libertarians and liberals will absolutely abhor (what if some evil jerk conservative puts a bounty on getting an abortion clinic shut down?). There are many things that I abhor (like child pornography and human trafficking) that will obviously use bitcoins too, but law enforcement will just have to adapt, because bitcoins (or something like them) are the inevitable future IMHO.

I think that it depends upon the definition of conservative and liberal, which means differnet things to different people.  I would guess that Gavin's intended the term conservative to be a synonym for "luddite" or "too old to understand the interwebs".  It exposes a bias in Gavin, if I am correct, but not a fault per se.  Personally, I don't think that Bitcoin has political connotations beyond what individuals attribute to it.  It neither favors the status quo, or any particular economic system.  It simply is, and it's attributes lend it well to being disruptive of the status quo only because it currently isn't included.  If the 'powers that be' can adapt, Bitcoin will change little beyond the efficiency of p2p exchanges and online commerce.

That said, history has shown that the status quo is usually too deeply entrenched into it's own mythologies to adapt; and usually gets replaced altogether as a result.

In terms of politics - if somebody does a Bitcoin video representing a specific political viewpoint, it should not be financed from a pool everyone contributed to. Bitcoin obviously appeals to people from across the spectrum and if we took sides it would only serve to be divisive and counterproductive. If somebody has a liberal or conservative or libertarian or green or whatever platform and wants to do a video, great, but I feel duty-bound to stay neutral, simply because Bitcoin itself is neutral.

I haven't heard back from [mike] yet, but even if he's not available/interested we might still be able to organize something that's akin to a lecture or lecture series. Would that be preferable to a shorter more graphic video? Or do a lot of you agree with Gavin that we should focus on non-technical questions?

this is spot on.  i, as a potential, but yet still skeptical merchant need more discussion about the topic to make me more comfortable with taking the jump.

Yes, this is a good idea. Maybe also make it something the left-biased mainstream media outlets would latch onto.

A Bitcoin primer for journos and PR types from a left liberal bias might find its way into a large audience rather rapidly if sound-bites and memes can be easily lifted from it and put into pithy sentences.

Bullet points?

Descriptive still imagery?

i think the anonymity part of BTC should be downplayed.  sure its a symbol for the geek network as well as the illegal trade folks but won't be for the masses who are the critical part of this acceptance equation.  the best way to think of how BTC will be used in the future is to study M-Pesa in Kenya and why it took off like a rocket shot.  those ppl just needed an easy, inexpensive way to move money around the country w/o physically delivering it like they had been (donkey ride cross country) forced to do b/c of theft.  they don't care that Safaricom/Vodafone knows their identity when sending money; they just want to get the money to family and friends.  most of BTC use will be this way.

I'd say the most important thing is to ascertain the safety of Bitcoins to the layman.

actually i think the words "cryptocurrency" and "anonymous" should be downplayed in the marketing.  both imply BTC users have something to hide.  i for one don't and i think eventually the majority of users won't either.

+1

Big words and "anonymity" aren't selling points for cash--simplicity and ease of use are.  I'm running a registered business, paying taxes on my income, and tying my real-world identity to my BitCoin one.  I couldn't care less about anonymity.  It's the technology people care about--not a niche application.  Take Linux--I support for it both ideological and practical reasons, but the vast majority of people only care about the latter.

+2
This is the only way forward for a sustainable Bitcoin success.

I agree about the anonimity part.  Bitcoin is not even really fully anonymous anyway.

But I don't see how we could get rid of the word "cryptographic".  Otherwise people will have no clue about how it works.

Most people don't know how an internal combustion engine works either, but they still drive cars..

you'd be surprised about how many won't even care.  they'll try it out a few times and if it works they'll keep using it.  remember, the vast majority of the ppl don't have the capacity to understand the technology anyway.  hell, i'm a highly educated successful professional and do i really know how my browser works?  No.  i've been a heavy internet browser since the beginning and when did i find out about or care to look for something like Tor? one month ago.  am i using Tor right now?  i'd like to but Firefox 4.0 won't support it so i still browse around non anonymously and to sites like this.  when did i start using encrypted email for sensitive topics?  2 wks ago.  believe me, the masses want easability, practicality.

i'll go one step farther and say the words cryptography, anonymous, cryptocurrency should be avoided in all forms of advertising.  OTOH, "decentralized" is a good word since its a play on the negative sentiment of "central" banking.  "distributed" is ok but for the avg person is unclear.  "digital currency" is great, a total play on the move to high tech money.

Just be straight up and answer the questions that are asked to the level that is required ... no need to hide anything.

Oh what a tangled web we weave when at first we seek to deceive.

Bitcoin has got nothing to hide or need make no apologies, it will stand and compete on its own merits.

So, how are you going?

I haven't seen progress in this thing and just wondering if it is in production.

My 2 cents:

The target audience should probably be every average lower-middle class first world resident (people who will have money to use bitcoin as a commodity). Average Joes, college kids, stay at home moms, etc in the uk, canada, usa, australia, etc.

The video should touch on what speaks to them. What do people hate? Getting charged fees. People hate getting gauged with debit fees, bank fees, credit card interest charges, etc.

Average people don't know about the problems of federal reserve banking, the corruption of world banking cartels, etc - in fact, in a 10 minute video, if we try to explain that to them, it will most likely turn 80% of the people off.

I would not "go there" for this video, but I'd rather speak to the average person by saying how bitcoin is the evolution of transactions online, how great it is that it can have such low fees, etc etc...focus on mostly good things about bitcoin that will improve the average person's life. Don't focus on what's wrong with the current banking system.


That would be my biggest suggestion!

It's not in production and won't be for a while. Right now I'm focusing on my main project Webcoin (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=7357.0), due to the fact that wallet security is such a prominent and urgent subject at the moment.

I also lost access to the marketing wallet (7000 BTC), despite having three copies (one in a VirtualBox, one on Truecrypt/Dropbox, one somewhere else). Details on the loss are in the #bitcoin-dev chatlogs if you care to search. Anyway, this was extremely frustrating and another reason to focus on better wallet security.

Wallet stuff scares me.  Definitely halt production if you have something already being worked on in that department.

BTW, love the original video and have linked many people to it many times :)

Seriously? It was stolen?? That's awful! What a pity...

I would recomend Russ Roberts from Econtalk (http://www.econtalk.org/). He did a whole podcast on Bitcoin. He is also the co-author of the videos Hayek vs Keynes (Round 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk, Round 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTQnarzmTOc)

Just leaving this thread here in case you ever retake this project:

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12842.0

seconded. i was thinking the same thing when I saw this thread revived