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Author Topic: WeUseCoins: 2nd Video - Content  (Read 6242 times)
Stefan Thomas
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April 05, 2011, 02:21:09 AM
 #1

I want to start brainstorming ideas what needs to go into the next video.

Keep your suggestions short and to the point and please let's keep this thread on topic. If you want to talk about anything else related to WeUseCoins, the marketing fund or whatever, start another thread.

I'll jump in with our own ideas soon enough, but it's pretty late, so I'll give you guys a chance to make the first couple of suggestions. Smiley

The first and most important question is: Who is our target audience for this video?

The second question is: What information do we want to include?

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April 05, 2011, 02:33:07 AM
 #2

How transactions work: flow chart type thing? IE

Step 1: Address exchanged (see address on site, want to donate, etc)
Step 2: Payment announced (client broadcasts payment to everyone it is connected to)
Step 3: Payment distribution (most clients know of the payment, first to find a block will back it up as not a double spend)
Huh
Profit!

(got lazy, but feel free to continue on that theme)
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April 06, 2011, 03:28:17 AM
 #3

First on the subject of target audience. There are already a lot of really good wiki pages which will always beat a video in some ways. Namely they'll always be more detailed, more up-to-date and easier to work through at your own pace.

However, it can be tough to know where to start. That's where we think the video can come in. I'm picturing something like this: It touches on the core concepts with a total length of about 10 minutes. It's simple enough for an average person with average technical knowledge to understand. Its metaphors and explanations are accurate enough though to give the viewer a basic functional knowledge of Bitcoin's properties and foundation. From there, the viewer can go on to read written materials for more in-depth information.

These are the most important points we want to address:

- Proof-of-work. How it works and how it makes the impossible, possible.
- Block chain. Common state in a decentralized system.
- Transactions. Signatures, verification, relaying and "smart" transactions (scripts). (Thanks, TheKid)
- Value. Why are Bitcoins worth something? Will they keep their value? Conversely, will deflation be a problem?

Note that we mixed technical and economic issues. For the economic stuff we'll try to get our script corrected by an actual economist.

I also want the segments above to be available as separate videos, which could be embedded into the corresponding wiki pages for example.

Ok, so what else should we include? What should we leave out? Do you agree with the target audience and basic format?

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April 06, 2011, 03:31:40 AM
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Note that we mixed technical and economic issues. For the economic stuff we'll try to get our script corrected by an actual economist.


Which economist?

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April 06, 2011, 03:40:17 AM
 #5

I think there should be a video targeted to merchants at some point.  These would be merchants who perhaps already have a site taking payments with PayPal, credit cards, etc.  The video would address topics like fees, reversibility, exchange and how to get started accepting Bitcoin.

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April 06, 2011, 03:52:20 AM
 #6

I think there should be a video targeted to merchants at some point.  These would be merchants who perhaps already have a site taking payments with PayPal, credit cards, etc.  The video would address topics like fees, reversibility, exchange and how to get started accepting Bitcoin.

I would agree.
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April 06, 2011, 08:31:28 AM
 #7

Yeah, a video to potential merchants could be nice.

I'm not sure you should put too much efforts in a technical video. As you said, there's plenty of documentation out there that technical people could use to learn. Your talent in animations would probably be better directed by targeting non-technical people.

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April 06, 2011, 10:21:33 AM
 #8

I'm starting to like the "What BitCoin is" and "What problem it solves" approach, as here.  It helps get people off on the right foot, so to speak.

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April 06, 2011, 09:02:34 PM
 #9

I think there should be a video targeted to merchants at some point.  These would be merchants who perhaps already have a site taking payments with PayPal, credit cards, etc.  The video would address topics like fees, reversibility, exchange and how to get started accepting Bitcoin.

I would agree.

I think this is badly needed, however, I would wait until some more payment processing websites arise. Right now we only have mtgox and mybitcoin that serve that purpose (did I miss someone?). There should be a website that is VERY trustworthy and also, very professional. I personally think this is the most important thing Bitcoin needs right now. If you look at my thread here: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4667.0 - some of the merchants/organisations we try to convince to start using Bitcoin ask about the technical implementation. There must be something out there that they can trust and easily implement/use.

Sorry for swaying away from the topic, just I think it is too early to spend time and money on creating a video for merchants when there is no system they can use.

Bitalo.com coming soon!

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Stefan Thomas
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April 06, 2011, 10:01:07 PM
 #10

Which economist?

Whoever we can convince to spend the time. Suggestions and introductions are welcome.

I'm not sure you should put too much efforts in a technical video. As you said, there's plenty of documentation out there that technical people could use to learn. Your talent in animations would probably be better directed by targeting non-technical people.

I think things like proof-of-work are something that even "non-technical people" have to understand. We can list Bitcoin's supposed advantages with a lot of colorful marketing language, but Bitcoin's main selling point is its core architecture. Without understanding how Bitcoin works you can't understand why it matters.

I'm starting to like the "What BitCoin is" and "What problem it solves" approach, as here.  It helps get people off on the right foot, so to speak.

Wow. I really like that explanation and with your permission we'll heavily borrow from it.

I think this is badly needed, however, I would wait until some more payment processing websites arise. Right now we only have mtgox and mybitcoin that serve that purpose (did I miss someone?). There should be a website that is VERY trustworthy and also, very professional. I personally think this is the most important thing Bitcoin needs right now. If you look at my thread here: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4667.0 - some of the merchants/organisations we try to convince to start using Bitcoin ask about the technical implementation. There must be something out there that they can trust and easily implement/use.

Sorry for swaying away from the topic, just I think it is too early to spend time and money on creating a video for merchants when there is no system they can use.

I agree, plus there is the obvious problem with a neutral entity such as WeUseCoins promoting any particular service. They are certainly free to use our material to create their own video, but we probably won't do any video promoting a specific commercial product. The website is a different story, here we will try to list any service that we think is solid and trustworthy.

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April 06, 2011, 10:42:17 PM
 #11

Note that we mixed technical and economic issues. For the economic stuff we'll try to get our script corrected by an actual economist.


Which economist?

I can assure you that there are academicly trained economists that are watching Bitcoin.  I can also assure you that none of them that you would want to review Bitcoin is going to be willing to stake their professional reputation yet.

If all you need is the script reviewed, either post it here in the economics section of this forum; jump to one of the many economic forums elsewhere.  I think that you'll find that there is no real consensus that can be achieved on any of the questionable parts.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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April 07, 2011, 02:25:12 AM
 #12

I'm starting to like the "What BitCoin is" and "What problem it solves" approach, as here.  It helps get people off on the right foot, so to speak.

Wow. I really like that explanation and with your permission we'll heavily borrow from it.
Certainly--I would be happy for you to.

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April 07, 2011, 07:51:29 AM
 #13

I'm not sure you should put too much efforts in a technical video. As you said, there's plenty of documentation out there that technical people could use to learn. Your talent in animations would probably be better directed by targeting non-technical people.

I think things like proof-of-work are something that even "non-technical people" have to understand. We can list Bitcoin's supposed advantages with a lot of colorful marketing language, but Bitcoin's main selling point is its core architecture. Without understanding how Bitcoin works you can't understand why it matters.

Yeah, you're probably right, there's this "trust issue". People questioning what miners are working for, how can they be sure there will be no inflation passed the 21 million limit, what are the risks of being stolen and so on.... these are all "technical" questions that could reassure people's trust on the system if properly answered.

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April 09, 2011, 02:17:41 PM
 #14

I'd like to see some of the potential concepts that have been talked about on the boards.
I'm not talking about crazy stuff, just things that are reasonable and really not that far away.
Eventually instant transfers (trusted intermediary) and even debit cards that exchange to the currency of your choice on demand will be possible.
There are a lot of things that are not too far out and are really awesome.
You could also talk about how it gives an average person the ability to trade currency at the best rates.

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Stefan Thomas
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April 09, 2011, 04:34:45 PM
 #15

I'd like to see some of the potential concepts that have been talked about on the boards.
I'm not talking about crazy stuff, just things that are reasonable and really not that far away.
Eventually instant transfers (trusted intermediary) and even debit cards that exchange to the currency of your choice on demand will be possible.
There are a lot of things that are not too far out and are really awesome.
You could also talk about how it gives an average person the ability to trade currency at the best rates.

This touches on a more general point: With the first video we strictly avoided talking about anything that is likely to change in the near future. That will still be true to a lesser degree for the next video.

Note that the second video is still a while out (late summer/fall 2011), I expect Bitcoin to mature some more in the meantime. I think it's very possible that the very points you mentioned will be a reality by then.

I'd also like to point out that it is not a good goal to pack into the video anything that we wish to communicate. The video should only contain the stuff that is hard to communicate in other ways. There are many options for getting informed about Bitcoin: podcast(s), websites, the wiki, etc. The video should cover the stuff that is hardest to convey via these means. And to me that's the core technical stuff, block chain etc. If we explain in the video how a double spend can happen, it's easy enough to write on a website that there is now a new cool way to detect it even before a confirmation in a block.

Let me know if you guys think we're on the right track with this view.

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April 09, 2011, 04:44:54 PM
 #16


Describe the two cryptographic concepts bitcoin is based on:

- public key cryptography (focus on signing) ;
- proof of work (explain how this is used for a distributed time server) ;
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April 10, 2011, 10:43:11 PM
 #17

I'm intending to do a tech talk on how BitCoin works some time in the next month or two. I have the slide plans ready, just need to organize it and ensure it gets recorded/uploaded to YouTube.

I don't think it's possible to explain BitCoin in 10 minutes, sorry. At least not without leading to very confused people. Simply stating what it does isn't enough, you have to explain why it does things that way. Why do we use a proof of work? Why is SHA256 trustworthy? Why is the block target time 10 minutes and not 30 or 1? And so on.


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April 11, 2011, 12:39:04 AM
 #18

Why do we use a proof of work?

Proof of work is required to decentralised the network.  Gavin explains that quite well in one of his interview.   Basically in a decentralised network, someone could send two orders in the same time, while both of them can not be fullfilled together (not enough funds).  There has to be a way to decide which order is valid and which is not.  In a centralised system, one would just take the first one to appear.  But in a decentralised network, there is no 'first one to appear'.  The two orders appear at different times in different areas of the network.

Proof of work is used to elect one particular node that will arbitrate this and decide which order is valid, and which is not.  Is is basically used more as a "proof of time" rather than a "proof of work", but providing computing power is amongst the best on the market, proof of work IS proof of time.

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Why is SHA256 trustworthy?

I personnaly don't know.  But it is considered to be at present time.

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Why is the block target time 10 minutes and not 30 or 1? And so on.

As I understood it, longer target time would not be practical for electronic exchange, while shorter time would create too many chain forks.
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April 11, 2011, 01:23:30 AM
 #19

Why do we use a proof of work?

Proof of work is required to decentralised the network.  Gavin explains that quite well in one of his interview.   Basically in a decentralised network, someone could send two orders in the same time, while both of them can not be fullfilled together (not enough funds).  There has to be a way to decide which order is valid and which is not.  In a centralised system, one would just take the first one to appear.  But in a decentralised network, there is no 'first one to appear'.  The two orders appear at different times in different areas of the network.

Proof of work is used to elect one particular node that will arbitrate this and decide which order is valid, and which is not.  Is is basically used more as a "proof of time" rather than a "proof of work", but providing computing power is amongst the best on the market, proof of work IS proof of time.

Quote
Why is SHA256 trustworthy?

I personnaly don't know.  But it is considered to be at present time.

Quote
Why is the block target time 10 minutes and not 30 or 1? And so on.

As I understood it, longer target time would not be practical for electronic exchange, while shorter time would create too many chain forks.


Thanks for the answers, they don't seem that confusing to us but for the non geek explaining how all this works in a few minutes is pretty tough. Then it's even harder when you're trying to keep it interesting to the non geek. I could watch a 45min video on SHA256 but would .1% of the population... nope. I think the first video was really fun to watch. It's going to be hard to do that and get really technical at the same time. With the 2nd video though I'm assuming people watching will already be interested at least.

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April 11, 2011, 02:14:01 AM
 #20

I'd rather see more non-technical bitcoin-related videos rather then "this is what the block chain looks like" technical videos.

I'm going to brain dump some half-baked thoughts:

So I watched this talk by Jonathan Haidt on the moral roots of liberals and conservatives and started thinking about how it might apply to more mainstream acceptance of Bitcoin.  If Jonathan is right, then I think conservatives will find reasons to hate bitcoin, but liberals might be convinced to love it.

So what are the videos that liberals love?  Well, there's The Story of Stuff, which I think is wrong-headed but is incredibly popular.

I'd like to see a video targeted towards left-leaning people that argues from their world-view-- why the existing monetary system is unfair and benefits a rich elite at the expense of the working masses.  How Bitcoin can change that and be a People-Powered money, backed not by empty promises from rich bankers but by the strength and trust of the person-to-person Bitcoin Community.  How friends and neighbors using Bitcoin can keep money in local communities.  How using Bitcoin lets you interact with people all over the world, promoting peace and understanding.  How it is better for the environment than gold mining or trucking coins and cash to and from stores and banks.

Of course, early adopter libertarian-leaning bitcoiners will probably HATE it, but they wouldn't be the target audience...

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