Bitcoin Forum

Tiffany & Co. was founded on 1837 and has become one of the oldest companies in America. These necklaces based on Cryptopunks NFT they have created appears to be confirming the suggestion that the concept of NFTs will never die, very much similar to the concept of cryptocurrencies. NFT has, also similar to cryptocurrencies, become a part of our culture.

Using that as an argument, bitcointalk.org has welcomed altcoins and created subforums for them for everyone to discuss, speculate and for people to help each other. Can the forum also welcome NFTs and also create subforums for NFT discussion, speculation and information sharing?



The company is selling 250 customized, diamond-encrusted pendant necklaces for 30 ETH (around $50,000) a pop to holders of the famed collection. Each necklace will include a combination of 30 diamonds and gemstones, according to Tiffany’s website.
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The necklaces will go on sale Aug. 5 and are only available for CryptoPunk holders to purchase in the form of NFTs redeemable for the physical necklaces. Tiffany’s will net over $12 million from the sale’s sellout, standing to make even more profit from resale royalties.

Read in full https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/08/01/jewelry-brand-tiffany-and-co-unveils-50k-cryptopunk-necklaces/

It was discussed earlier- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5223103.0
It’s not the only one. There were many more discussion for this but I have never seen a reply from theymos, I can't remember. I think he isn't interested.
Also, if you are going to get sub board for nft, I think sub board for Lightning Network is also necessary and must be first priority which still isn't added in the forum.

NFTs are non fungible tokens, they are also cryptocurrencies.

NFTs are altcoins, you can post anything related to NFTs on altcoin boards.

But if you see NFT discussion more (like 30% or more of NFT topics on the first page of an altcoin board) on altcoin board, you can create a topic about it to request for NFT board.

Its more accurate to say they live on top of cryptocurrencies. Some tokens are currencies, but all tokens reside on pre-existing blockchains.


For the most part they use altcoins but there is also a thriving world of Bitcoin-based NFTs.

I should open up a Rare Pepe (https://decrypt.co/95528/how-rare-pepe-nfts-reclaimed-pepe-the-frog-and-why-they-remain-relevant) thread in Project Development and see if it gets moved.  :D

I agree with the prior comment that Lightning should get a Child Board first, but having one for NFTs somewhere might also be a good idea.

They give not just Bitcoin but several other coins a definitive use case, makes everything more exciting.

NFTs are probably responsible for drawing a bigger crowd into crypto than any other single factor (aside from pure speculation, I assume).

Demand(and demand that's currently on a downtrend) probably isn't that big to have it's on subforum.

I'm definitely not against it though — the altcoin subforums are already messy to start with; and an NFT subforum might help tidy that section a bit. It's not like Bitcointalk has anything to lose by adding a subforum.

the hysteria surrounding NFT is slowly (but surely) passing. if this trend continues, in six+ months NFT will experience a level like all other hypes ICOs, MN etc...
now that (ICO) subforum only serves to keep worthless spam and keep the rest of the forum as clean as possible.

NFT’s may never die but may never live neither. Take a look at ICO’s. You can’t say they are dead but do they live? You call that living? NFT’s didn’t even have the impact of the ICO’s and now they are even in a worse shale than them.

Nope. NFT’s don’t need their own sub forum. Nobody will visit there anyway. The idea of NFT’s was dumb to begin with and now proven worthless .

I honestly don't care about the NFT, but owning or speculating forum usernames would be cool. I definitely would like to see such names as LoyceV, Lauda in my collection. I could also accept the username GazetaBitcoin into my collection (if his owner pays me extra).

I actually could care less about most new NFTs. 99.99% of everything on Ethereum for example. Old NFTs (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5406123.msg60656795#msg60656795) won't die. They are collectors items. You understand that old sports cards have value, right? Same deal with old NFTs. They are scarce, non-fungible, and made when nobody really cared.

To call NFTs "proven worthless" just reflects utter disregard for reality. All you need to do is visit OpenSea to be proven wrong. If people pay money for them, they are not worthless, independent of your personal opinion.

I think that this forum would benefit from sorting out the altcoin section instead just leaving it in a mess that currently is. Whether we like it or not, new crypto users mainly invest in altcoins (NFT included) before they start looking at bitcoin (usually after getting rekt) and by getting them here there is a good chance that instead of wasting their time and money on shitcoins, they start using bitcoin instead.


Just because NFT market is currently dominated by overpriced JPEGs doesn't mean that they are worthless or useless as they can be so much more.

I stand to be corrected by anyone if I am wrong, maybe with evidence. I strongly believe and say that theymos is not ready/interested or willing to effect any more changes in this forum, pending the arrival of the new forum software if it's coming.
I have read people suggesting features to be added, requesting local boards and others requesting to be merit sources. So, of recent has theymos granted any of such kinds of requests or applications. If yes, please comment and provide me links.

Agreed and it might also bring more people in the forum. New people will certainly also bring new ideas, new knowledge and new opporunities. If it helps for the growth of our community in bitcointalk.org, we should try it. It also appears that much of us might be underestimating NFTs for the adoption of the cryptospace, however, in 4 years the rate of growth for NFTs might be faster than bitcoin's rate of growth. NFT trading might become the no.1 form of introduction to the cryptospace for new users.

Is it really needed? as @Charles-Tim said it is also a crypto so this belong on altcoin section. And Its not ideal to add sub section because its famous right now since for sure the same on other category which became famous NFT fame will fade out, then the section will be dead if no people will talk about NFT anymore so its useless section to be added.

Year and a half ago we (Croatian local board) got a new child board after creating request topic here in meta so its not like nothing can be done or that people shouldn't ask for features or new local boards. And same thing regarding the merit sources, as theymos introduced new ones year ago and there will certainly be new merit sources in the future as merit system is constantly adjusted.

Let's be honest here — that might definitely be the case, but let's not describe it as if merely adding a subforum will take like a hundred development hours to do. Assuming Theymos doesn't literally manually code everything, adding(and removing) a subforum will literally only take less than 5 minutes to do.

I think many had the wrong idea that anything could be screenshot and claimed and probably resold on the blockchain, rendering the original art useless. It definitely takes some reading to know they work totally differently.

Btw welcome back. It's been a while

Not like creating an NFT board, mprep has given the requirement needed before it can be created, if altcoin board is not much more of NFTs, a board will not be considered for it.

About local board, if requirement needed are met, it would be created.

About merit source, maybe theymos still see merit distribution to be sufficient enough and see no need for new merit sources, but some of those that applied and some other people that can do the work would be made merit sources if the merit distribution is declining and as more people are registering on this forum if they are good posters.

Ok. I said so because since I joined this forum(about 1yr and 2 months) and has been seeing suggestions and requests, I haven't seen anyone granted. That made me feel that theymos doesn't want to  bother this present software much anymore because a new one might be on the way.

While we wait and make suggestions, I am of the opinion that some of these suggestions should be channelled to the board for the new forum software. By doing so, the board would be busy, and each time a suggestion is made there, it would be a reminder to theymos that we are waiting for it.

No.
We are not going to create new subforums each time when some new ICO-like thing comes up, now it's NFT and tomorrow it's going to be something else.
One more thing I never liked NFT is because they are built on top of other shitcoins, so that makes them even worse and almost unusable with high fees.
I wonder whats next thing going to be in crypto, trip to Mars or ticket to virtual meta prison, etc...

Yeah but our intention was to clear to make some order in our local forum, making it better and cleaner.
With NFT board I would expect mostly spammers posting their new ''art'' projects.

Yes, anyone who's ever worked with an SMF forum can tell you that it literally takes 2 minutes to add a subforum.  That's if you've never done it before and read through all the information while you're doing it.

Every time someone posts this thread (which is a lot) it always boils down to 2 things.  1) Bitcoin is for hodling and things like NFTs offend Bitcoin only users because it shows that people actually want to use crypto, and that offends maximalists.  2) We already have a subform for altcoin tokens, which is literally what NFTs are.  Don't think we don't have an NFT section just because it's called the Tokens (Altcoins) subforum.  What you're really asking is for theymos to rename this section to Non-Fungible Tokens (Altcoins), which is unnecessary given that we don't need a specific section for fungible tokens.

TL;DR - We already have an NFT section.

Tokens (Altcoins) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=240.0)

The forum is centralized we all understand this, But when it comes to matters like this, i think that the forum users choice should be the top priority to Theymos, since without the users of the forum, there is actually no forum.

I am also in support of implementing an NFT subforum, many of us, including myself might not be really interest in NFTs, but this does not change the fact that NFTs have become a hot topic of discussion in the crypto currency space, creating NFT subforum on Bitcointalk will not only give the forum more exposure out there, it will also enlarge the forum in terms of users and things to be discussed.

Those asking for NFT subforum probably have the same intention. Anyway, my point was that people shouldn't stop asking for new subforums/features/merit source positions as sometimes those requests are approved.


Probably, if that subforum gets moderated the way rest of the altcoin section is. Imho, altcoin section should either be completely closed or properly cleaned and reorganized because at the current state it doesn't serve any purpose. As I said in my previous post, I do think that bitcointalk is missing opportunity to attract those who are more into altcoins and turn them into bitcoiners.

@Rikafip. I would argue for reorganization and properly cleaned. There is much development to talk about concerning altcoins, Defi and how they are presently being merged with NFTs. Also, why can we not make bitcointalk.org's altcoin subforums be one of the best sources of information for the investors and the cryptospace community?

I really think we also need a subforum for NFT. I saw a rug pull nft thread in the bitcoin marketplace section where it shouldn't be because it is using the BNB chain.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5399355.msg60678728#msg60678728

Also i am planning to make an nft in the forum but I don't know know where to create the thread in the right section.

Flawed comparison.

Old sport cards have a physical beingness, oppose to digital images of old sport cards. Nobody can take my baseball card, view it, change it, touch it, play with it etc, without my permission. On the other hand, the person who sold me the NFT, and every other person who does have the image/video, can and have every right to do those things, because there's no law that forbids it; and even if there was, there's no way to detect such "malicious" behavior.

Owning an NFT provides no tangible benefits.

Nearly every quality of a baseball card you just mentioned can be recreated digitally, and applies to the fundamental properties of cryptocurrency.

- nobody can take your NFT if you are the only one who holds the private key for the address at which it is stored, and you are the only one who can move it (other people can still view it; dunno how you "play" with sportscards)

- NFT metadata can be permanently locked so it can't be altered, and there are certainly ways to figure out if it is still editable.

- perhaps most importantly, nobody can alter or forge the blockchain transactions of an NFT as they apply to its mint date and ownership history.

There's a multi-hundred-million dollar industry that revolves around crypto collectibles. People value them regardless of whether or not they provide "tangible benefits."

That is the same as saying "Nobody can take your baseball card's receipt". Okay, sure. I've stated I own the hash, but isn't the card the product?

The only thing that can't be altered is the hash's ownership. The image can be used for any purpose with no owner's permission.

Scraping the barrel, aren't we?  :P

The NFT is the product.

If I transfer ownership of the metadata to a burn address (which can be done independent of sending the corresponding NFT to a burn address), that data cannot be altered. You can also make counterfeit baseball cards and sell those without permission.

You want to control the definition of what "tangible benefits" entail, and I'm not about to bother arguing with you about that. Your arguments against NFTs are the same ones that no-coiners have been making against bitcoin for years.

The NFT is the product's fingerprint. There's no product saved in the blockchain, nor the bytes that represent it. It's just a hash of it; a unique number that works as the identifier.

If you transfer ownership to a burn address, it'll essentially mean you're "burning" the rights. The data (which is the image) can normally change, whether you "officially possess" its hash or not.

Being counterfeited is irrelevant. You can have your private keys counterfeited by the same reasoning.

No, they're not. A bitcoin isn't an unlicensed identifier of an asset. It's itself an asset.

In addition to selling plenty of image tokens, I've sold thousands of tokens without an image at all -- simply based on the name of the token and its mint date, which cannot be changed. That's because the token is the product.

You're simply incorrect in continuing to insist that "the data can normally change" for all NFTs. For some, yes. There's an entire blockchain whose NFT-associated data is stored in IPFS -- these entries are immutable and cannot be changed. Separately, once an image hash is created, it can and will only correspond with the particular image from which it was created. Transferring ownership of a token's metadata to a burn address assures that metadata cannot be changed, and again, this is different than transferring the token itself.

The private key is what you need to move the NFT. There is no private key for a baseball card, just there is no private key for a dollar bill. The analogy is more like minting a counterfeit Bored Ape. If you know what to look for it's easy to tell its a counterfeit, but you can still try to sell it, and nobody can stop you (without the involvement of some kind of authorities).

I don't even know what an "unlicensed identifier" means... All bitcoins in existence are "unlicensed." They just are. They require no license to exist.

Please read before responding:

https://jpjanssen.com/8-reasons-olga-is-worth-%E2%82%BF88/

It's a token that does not point at an external image file, and nothing about its inherent properties that make it valuable to collectors can be altered. Now, he might not get 88 BTC for it, but it is nevertheless worth big bucks (https://twitter.com/w3b_eth/status/1546858201626419200/photo/1) as a highly-desirable crypto collectible, independent of your personal opinion of its value.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMcRl_JXYAEIKPL?format=png&name=small

https://fullycrypto.com/hal-finney-1993-email-foresaw-nfts

So, is it like a ticket? Like saying "I, nutildah, give the number 1,000 to Bob". Can Bob redeem it somehow? For example, in a store? This can have a utility, although it can work centrally more efficiently.

Data that is stored in the blockchain can't be changed (although it can be edited locally). That wasn't my point. My point was: It doesn't hold water to buy the proof that you own something, when that something is publicly accessible and can be utilized without your permission.

This sounds like just an OP_RETURN (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/OP_RETURN) message.

They require no license to exist, because they're not liabilities, opposed to NFTs that work as contracts. No one can utilize my bitcoin without my private key, but everyone can utilize the image whose rights I'm supposedly and community-exclusively selling, without any private key.

It doesn't matter if it's internal or external. Everyone can access it and enjoy the benefits of utilizing the image without owning the token. Sorry, but I can't see the value you do. Maybe I'm wrong.

Feels like we're going in circles now as you continue to insist the token isn't the product.


Just as with the price of bitcoin, it doesn't matter what you or I see its value as so much as what the market sees it as.

I tried to help you get a glimpse of where this comes from, that's about all I can do.

I acknowledge that the market sees value. Granted. I'm just questioning its usefulness.

Someday you will argue to make a sub-forum for Defi and MetaVerse also  ???

This is indeed not a good idea as all of this stuff can be covered within the altcoin section and there is no need to create sub-forums for every category of altcoins. Also, we should not forget that this is first a bitcoin forum and altcoin is just a section in this forum.

I wasnt aware that this was discussed before on the forum!

Anyway, yes I would be in favour of a child board of the Goods board just like the
Collectibles Child board. The two boards would be interlinked, many physical
items are loaded with NFT's.

@sweeteye created a thread recently about this topic in the Collectibles board >
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5411201.msg60825838#msg60825838


From the thread its clear that there is a massive community of makers and collectors
of NFT's out there and while the space may be in decline I would guess its finding its realistic level
while speculation levels out and
the real collectors stay.

Just my 2 sats

As has already been pointed out on this thread, there is an NFT section.  It's just that nobody cares to dig through the shitcoins sections to find it.  I even made a post about an NFT collection today.  You can't make people care though.  If a free NFT project from Mila Kunis and Seth Green can't get a response here, you have to wonder if there's really demand to learn about NFTs or if people just want another outlet to try and sell you stuff they made for free.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5393118.0

Try to read and get informed about them but they are technically tokens and when know token don't not have their own blockchain and have to rely on another blockchain like Ethereum or the likes of solana.

I don't know why this topic keeps pooping up but NFTs are tokens and we already have a tokens board. I wonder why people think NFTs are any special from SHIB or BABY DOGE  ;D

I agree and you are fully right , they all run on a tokens blockchain.
The next issue i guess we will see even when we should get a NFT Subforum (what i think we dont get) is that the most dosnt post there Topics there.
Because the Token board is already for long time here now and most of the Topics gets done in the Altcoins Board , dont know why but its possible that a few Topicstarter cant read "Token".

Here's the problem with this:

Not all NFTs are on altcoin blockchains.

Arguably, some of the best NFTs are on Bitcoin. So relegating their discussion to Altcoin Announcements -> Tokens doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

---

I'd like to know where this thread should be, and I won't accept Tokens (Altcoins) as an answer, because they are in no way "altcoin tokens":

Forum NFTs - immortalize your profile on the BTC blockchain (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5411112.0)

I initially posted it in Goods, which I thought was reasonable, but then it was moved to Tokens. What I'm really trying to create are collectibles, though I understand that sub-board is mostly physical items.

These are Bitcoin goods, for sale for BTC. They are unique items -- nobody here has done anything like this before, except for maybe theymos (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5327661.0) (the main difference is my NFTs are real). They are not altcoins. So what's the best place for this topic?

@OgNasty
@hilariousandco

Yo why you guys do me dirty.

My thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5411112.0) has nothing to do with Altcoin Tokens. Please think about it.

This event makes it obvious why we need an NFT board. It could attract a new breed of users and breathe fresh life into an otherwise musty museum.

In the meantime, any good reason why I shouldn't move this thread to Collectibles? After all, this is what I'm trying to create: a unique, forum-specific collectable that is made using Bitcoin, purchasable with Bitcoin.

Speak now or forever hold your piece...

Seems to me it should qualify but there is so much negativity on this website it is sad to read.

I actually promoted you and signed up for your signature campaign because I am pro doge and this shitcoin nft idea of yours could act to promote both doge and btc.

Yet after reading the thread I see negative negative negative.

My thoughts on doge are that the endless regulated coin amount could be helpful to keep the coin alive for decades to come.

I think your idea of wrapping doge,btc,nft has some value.

Maybe bitcointalk could see fit to allow your idea.

Smallpox was once a huge part of the culture, globally, until it was eradicated and now is only talked about as a part of history.

To a much smaller extent, there were Beanie Babies, tulips, and any number of things that had their moment of fame but didn't last as things of value.  NFTs perplex me and challenge my assumptions about the rationality of people in cryptocurrency these days, and my only hope is that all of these bottom-feeding morons on Youtube who extol the wisdom of buying them suffer enormous economic loss.  Yes, I'm hoping some people suffer financially.  Sue me for having a hardened heart.

Please excuse me for my own, but I won't guarantee that there won't be a torrent of more negativity towards idiocy coming from me if threads like this keep popping up.

Now replace the word "NFT" with "Bitcoin" and congrats, you sound like every fervent no-coiner, ever. You sound exactly like Jorge Stolfi, Amy Castor or Charlie Munger, as your take on NFTs is zero percent different than theirs is on Bitcoin.


I know you somehow believe that ignorance is virtuous -- its not. All you're actually doing is sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes, and saying "no no no no no I can't hear you." You're hoping if enough people here do the same you will feel vindicated in your quest to not have to understand what makes NFTs valuable.

Two words bro

"Andy Warhol"


Why not look at his portflio and try to understand that nutildah is on the side of innovation just as Andy Warhol was.

Many years again Andy's  Campbell soup collection came out I was young and saw some of it in person at the

https://www.guggenheim.org

my small mind thought what a fucking con.
much like my small mind thought about the iPad when it first came out.

Well Andy's Campbell soup collection is certainly the first attempt at NFT art that became super successful.

go back and read how people hated and mocked Andy's work.

my self included.

The reality is Andy realized how absurd all of this world is for all of us and he had some fucking fun with it.

I will continue to push the 'have some fucking fun idea' even though in the case off my life:

 I lost my kids
 I have life long asthma
 I have had  a 27 year bout with mental illness and had to take anti psychotic meds>>> GOT BETTER OFF THOSE MEDS
even though at one time my pharmacist accidentally switched my meds with a viagra 90 day script. I  ran around with hard-on after hard-on after hard-on.
even though that 90 day script of viagra caused me double cataracts due to less blood flow to my eyes.
After the cataract surgery happened which repaired my eyes.
I realized no more phycosis. So no more meds.
I then developed diabetes. discovered it in 2018

I got covid 2 times dec 2019 oct 2021 and because of it developed peyronie's disease in 2020
my Johnson was bent into the shape of a fucking U
after 2 years of bending straight it is more like a (

even with all of that
I still like to look at the fun part of life and not be a stick in the mud.

The problem with bitcointalk is many many many people here are simply up tight and do not see how absurd life is.
all the shit I just wrote about myself is true and fairly ridiculous.
Which is why you need to look at life from that viewpoint have some fun.

Do not be a Will Smith and go about slapping people making jokes.

Chris Rock had the idea for a great reboot movie of GI Jane.

Get Jada Pinka, her daughter Williow  and toss in the white chick Demi Moore


In fact if they all had some common sense they could still do the movie use the ones above have Will Smith and Chris Rock in it .  Make the Wayan brother produce it and it could be funny as shit.

but no the world is in the whoa is me life sucks mode.

rant done.


note:
did a bit of typo edits

Phil, wow, I don't know what to say, other than I hope those who read your post can actually learn something from your words, and realize the wisdom you are trying to imbue comes from a place of experience and selflessness.

There's no way I can follow that  :D

But you would probably like to know that this kind of spirit has been around in the forum for a long time, though it has come and gone through the years.

Nili Lerner, a German artist who used Counterparty to launch a series of "art coins (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=782161.msg8816628#msg8816628)" in 2014 (before NFTs was a term), was heavily ridiculed back in the day, and is now being hailed as a visionary (https://news.bitcoin.com/nilicoins-rare-pepe-and-curio-cards-a-look-at-the-og-collectibles-that-started-the-nft-madness/), as what they were doing proved to be years ahead of their time.

This was their response to one of their early critics. I found it fitting in the context of your words.


https://www.vinniejinn.com/post/nili-lerner-nft-artists-are-shaping-a-new-reality-of-the-financial-world

This stuff isn't going away.

Quite the opposite: it will form the bedrock of digital identity in the upcoming era of blockchain-driven technology.

Just caught up on this thread, thanks for everyone's input.

If you believe bitcoin is here to stay, then you believe in the security and immutability of the bitcoin blockchain.
If that is the case, then you have to believe that artists will fuck around on the bitcoin blockchain and produce their art and leave their mark on it.

Among those artists are the new masters, making bitcoin NFTs, particularly historical bitcoin NFTs, highly collectible.

Yes, this stuff isn't going away.

Alright well, after reading this (unofficial) official description of what the boards are supposed to be about, I opted to move my thread to Digital Goods.


Bitcoin NFTs aren't altcoin tokens. Please don't move my thread back there -- its clearly the wrong section for it.