Bitcoin Forum

As we see, things aren't going well for Changpeng Zhao and more likely for Binance too, especially when it's becoming very clear that they are into very shady things: Binance employees are helping users in China to bypass KYC, directly violated U.S. derivatives laws, manipulates with trading volume and probably manipulates with Futures Trading too.

Decentralized exchanges are good alternatives if someone wants to feel safe and secure and in control of their funds but they lack a lot of features compared to centralized ones. For example, Binance has features like: Futures trading, options, leveraged tokens, swap farming, DeFi Stacking, Liquidity Farming, Launchpad and so on. These features attract a lot of users but p2p exchanges lack them. So, there are people who choose centralized exchanges because of that.

So, my question is, if Binance goes down, which centralized bitcoin exchange are you going to use? Personally, I think that Coinbase will become more popular because it's number two exchange by popularity at the moment and what makes it more attractive compared to Binance is that it's the San Francisco-based company, has been in business since 2012.

Answer? No centralized exchange.

Operate by using Peer to Peer solutions for your bitcoin <-> fiat needs and use decentralized exchanges or no-kyc swapping utilities (if decentralized exchanges are not available) when you are on-chain. This way, you do not have to trust a third party with your blockchain usage data as well as your personal data and your risks of being exposed to potential pitfalls that come with using centralized exchanges as minimized.

If you are looking for peer to peer or privacy friendly options, I can recommend AgoraDesk for a local-bitcoins style marketplace and kycnot.me for tools that can be used to maintain privacy within the Bitcoin ecosystem and beyond. Some fantastic decentralized web3 tools exist on various layer 2 (arbitrum, optimism, polygon, etc.) for perpetual/margin trading if you will miss these features on the centralized exchange that you are currently using.

You can see many decentralized exchanges that are offering derivative market like future trading, but people can be afraid of hack and exploit.

I do not use a single exchange as I do not also keep money on exchanges. I use Kucoin for no KYC, I also use OKX and Huobi global. If no Binance again, I will add another exchange which most likely not Coinbase. Coinbase do not even provide derivative trading like future trading and also not offering margin trading.

Coinbase doesn't operate in a lot of countries though they don't operate like Binance does (unregulated). I don't think Coinbase will be able to be the #1. Any other centralized exchange like Kucoin will take over the place in case Binance gets down.
I don't like Binance for a lot of reasons, I don't like centralized exchanges for the same reason almost but you know we don't have a way to ignore them especially when you are in a country where no ATM is there for crypto. We have to go through centralized exchanges many times though personally, I'm trying my best to minimize it at best. Well, if I had to pick a centralized exchange, Kucoin would be my pick.

Currently, I'm using Binance and I can't find any other alternative except for local exchange here in my country.
Coinbase would be the only option but they do have limited offers/services compared to Binance.
So I think if Binance will shut down my only hope is to use a local exchange which is way safer than using other exchanges.

Also, check the Coinex exchange it was owned by Viabtc and I am using this sometimes when trading my mined BTC to other coins.

I've highlighted great suggestions that I also support from BenCodie. Solutions such as Bisq[1], RoboSats[2][3] and AgoraDesk[4] are probably some of the most popular (at least from the replies that I every often see here in the forum), but as BenCodie pointed out you can check out more in the website that he listed.

Do note that considering that you're increasing your privacy (as in not providing KYC and other information to a central entity) you'll likely find a premium price in the BTC that's being traded in those platforms. For instance, as of now, the current BTC price is $28,110 USD[5] where in Bisq the value is sitting at ~ $28,701 USD[6] (2% increase). Due to the nature of the platform you'll likely encounter sellers that impose a higher %, but from what I've seen that is more often than not related to the quantity you are purchasing (the bigger the smaller the % of the premium), which is understandable.

To me this percentage means nothing as I consider my data, and therefore my privacy, way more important than the previous price difference. I do reckon, however, that most people simply do not care about this and as long as there exists a platform easy to access and to trade fiat<->BTC, they'll most likely go for that (the average John Doe at least...).

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[1]https://bisq.network/ (https://bisq.network/)
[2]https://learn.robosats.com/docs/access/ (https://learn.robosats.com/docs/access/)
[3-TOR]robosats6tkf3eva7x2voqso3a5wcorsnw34jveyxfqi2fu7oyheasid.onion (http://robosats6tkf3eva7x2voqso3a5wcorsnw34jveyxfqi2fu7oyheasid.onion)
[4]https://agoradesk.com/ (https://agoradesk.com/)
[5]http://preev.com/ (http://preev.com/)
[6]https://bisq.markets/ (https://bisq.markets/)

I have always used Binance for all my P2P trades, but if eventually anything happens to Binance and we are force into a situation where we have to look for a better alternative than Binance and it must still be a Centralized exchange then I might go for Kucoin, because I already have an account there so it won't be difficult for me to migrate there and continue my trading there, after all I have already completed my KYC verification there.

My next choice after Kucoin would be Coinbase, I have heard people speak decently about it but yet I still haven't used it, but if anything should go sideways with both Binance and Kucoin, I might consider giving it a chance.

On the contrary, I think that the presence of Coinbase in San Francisco, i.e. in the United States, makes it a very bad option, in addition to that being the most popular exchange after Binance also makes it targeted by the United States government, so I am sorry to say that Coinbase is a very bad option at the moment.

It is best for now to stay away from centralized exchanges, it is best to keep your coins in your wallet and use decentralized exchanges only when needed.

If Binance couldn't survive all these allegations and doesn't come out victorious and goes down, there will probably be an alternative that everyone will turn toward, and if that actually happens, it will impact the market badly as well because we all know how much volume and liquidity Binance has for each and every coin and token available for trade at Binance.

I think we should wait still to see what happens in the next couple of months, if things go more out of the hand of the Binance administration, that will probably be the time when everyone should start looking for alternatives.

I stopped using Binance a few months ago after it locked my account for 24 hours without explaining the reasons. And I replaced it with the Kucoin platform, which is considered one of the few reliable platforms that support my country, since I cannot use all known platforms, including those licensed in USA. Kucoin is friendly use and contains a range of features similar to Binance although i am not a trader myself.
Worth to mention that one of the best alternatives is Coinbase. It's a cryptocurrency exchange that is fully regulated in the USA. Coinbase has been operational since 2012 and has gained a reputation for its security and ease of use. Another alternative is Kraken, which is also fully licensed and regulated in the USA. Kraken offers a wide range of cryptocurrencies and has a strong focus on security.

Funnily enough I've had some issues with Binance recently, too. I've been using their services for many years, a binance card user as well with decent trading volume. A couple of weeks ago they started spamming me with "Source of Wealth documents needed" - I provided everything I had and after some time they backed off but then I got a warning because "You have sent and received funds to/from gambling services which is prohibited as per our terms". I searched through their ToS and they make no mention of gambling services, anywhere. When I pointed this out the reply I got was "This is our terms, do not receive funds from any gambling services or you will be banned".

Alternatives are desperately needed, indeed. I guess they just got too big.

I've been using Binance and thinking just as you, maybe the same choice as your with Coinbase but I'd probably also go with Kucoin and the others. You know, testing all of them until I think I've find the greatly alternative for Binance. But as much as I don't want to ship from exchange to exchange, I do hope that they'll fix their mess soon. It's expected that they'll go come crazy asking for new documents and I've just done it again early this year and I've got no effin' question on them since a couple of my funds sitting on there. It's a good discussion that we're sharing whatever happens to them, we find a new the same exchange or a better one.

I always use Kucoin, well, not untill they require their users for KYC. But as long as they don't it's fine, 1 bitcoin withdrawal limit in 24 hours ^{(i guess that is still the limit)} is still enough for me to use them without doing their KYC. Besides that it seems like they are accepting more pairs. And it looks like they don't want to be in spot light unlike binance who become greedy that almost all kind of crypto service they want to add on the platform, exchange, dex^{(even its not)} mining pool, cloud mining, etc.

Well, this is going to be a challenging problem for some individuals in most countries. Because Binance is mostly the best option they prefer to buy USDt before they can withdraw and buy Bitcoin through P2P, just as Little Mouse stated, some countries that don't have a Bitcoin ATM or any local Bitcoin P2P vendor will face some challenges. In as much as CEX is criticized because they are centralized and require KYC, in most countries the use of CEX makes it easier for them to buy bitcoin. I have been using Binance since I started my crypto journey. I have also used Huibe, and if Binance goes down, I will switch to Huibe, which is also a large CEX and opened in many countries.

The reasons you mentioned are what the media machine wants you to believe, but there are many enough reasons to make you avoid them. Unfortunately, Binance was excellent in the first days, but with the days, their model began to build an ideal platform that carries many flaws.
Currently, there is no suitable alternative for them, and centralized platforms do not provide an ideal alternative, so withdraw your money from the platform as soon as trading ends and try to use all available alternatives.

I believe that with the passage of time people will understand the importance of DEXs.

If you are limiting your choices to centralized exchanges, then you will be forced to choose the lesser evil. If you are looking for alternative to centralized exchanges, then you can have DExes, although with much lesser features, lower volume, lesser trading pairs, and so on. But if you are looking for an alternative centralized exchanges, then I guess you will have to risk with the big names such as KuCoin, Coinbase, OKX, Huobi. The assumption is that they're relatively safer since they're large enough to crumble easily, but it is never a guarantee.  

I like Binance and I don't consider it a risky trade.
Yes, there has been news now that they are doing illegal verifications in China, but this still needs to be proved. That is, most likely they do, but it will not be so easy to prove to the court.
I like p2p and ease of handling - everything happens quickly and intuitively clear. The liquidity is excellent.
Where to run if the binance is closed? Probably Bybit. I also use Currency and free2ex.

I can say with great certainty that you can exclude Coinbase from this possibility, because they have too many restrictions and limits for users. Especially after the announced closure of many accounts after April 9 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5447410).
to achieve a dominant or approximately strong position requires a global business, Coinbase certainly does not have that, they will remain only as a solid online wallet.


the current price is what someone is ready to pay at that moment. you can't just compare, because there are differences between open orders and executed ones. if it were so black and white, I believe that arbitrage trading would be an easy job.

I personally have no issues with Binance and as long as it provides me with good service, I'm comfortable using it. I believe the experience and preference of individual users may vary depending on the country they're in. I particularly appreciate Binance's P2P trading feature, which makes my life easier compared to our local exchange that is very strict with the source of funds entering their platform.

Regarding an alternative exchange, I think Coinbase is currently the most popular option, but it may not achieve the same level of success that Binance has already attained.

I recognize a number of exchanges that have also experienced growth along with the glorious achievements of FTX in their time, they're Bybit and Mexc.
Apart from all this, maybe it's time for us to slowly stop feeling comfortable that we will always run smoothly on these exchanges even though they haven't been subjected to stricter policies and sanctions, and start getting used to using the p2p market.

It all depends what country you live in and what are their crypto regulation laws.
I dont think Binance will stop working but if it happens people can switch to next exchange with biggest volume, Coinbase, Kraken, Kucoin and others.
There are more exchanges with lower volume that work fine but they can all be under attack of governments.
Maybe all this is not such a bad thing, we should have more developers working on improving decentralized exchanges that are safer.

I no longer use international centralized exchanges years ago due to their data breaches, ridiculous KYC requirements, and so on. Binance even sent me a notice saying my account will be locked if I don't update my KYC. If they ever went bankrupt, I don't think I'll be affected. As of now I mainly use my local exchange, and P2P to reduce my dependency on centralized services. So far so good, as long as I don't dabble in altcoin trades or something similar.

If you use Binance as an all-in-one platform to interact with crypto, I can see why you'd find it a hassle to find alternatives. But you should never rely on a third party in crypto. I'd be more than happy if Binance got closed and the market become more decentralized, even if it might result in a short or even medium-term bear market.

No US-based exchange is ever going to take the place of Binance due to their limited international operations, so we can immediately rule those out.

I can only think of Crypto.com, which I strongly disrecommend because of their very bad "mobile-first" experience precludes desktop use, and also really severe KYC and geolocation restrictions.

You could try HotBit or KuCoin, which are less stringent in KYC than Binance. And I see that the two exchanges also have almost the same features as Binance so maybe you just need to get used to it for a while.

But if you want Coinbase to trade, you can choose that too. But whatever you choose, it's a good idea to compare all the exchanges you know to know the advantages and disadvantages of each.

I seldom use Binance last time I used it was over a year ago I am active on Kucoin so I recommend Kucoin to be your next best alternative, even though I seldom trade on Binance I still consider it an industry giant because of its contribution to the industry I have no problem trading on a centralized exchange, I trade daily on my local exchanges which work like Binance.
I'm also ok with decentralized exchange but the lack of features like centralized exchange leaves so much to be desired. 
I guess centralized exchange will never go away because this is what makes adoption to the masses easy, because the majority are comfortable dealing with organized and centralized management.

What makes you think that if the largest exchange in the world can be targeted and can be vulnerable to FUDs and allegations, what would save these smaller exchanges from having the same faith in the long run? I think they will target all the cryptocurrency exchanges one by one, as the primary goal of the central authorities is to have no cryptocurrencies at all.

Their motive is to only have CBDCs be functional and used by the citizens and no cryptocurrencies are used by any, and the reason for that is obvious, they want control over the financial activities of their citizens and cannot bear not having that control at all.

While I am sceptical about FUD around Binance, given that information about their reserves is publicly available.

However, I am starting to worry about my savings as I can see that the colours are thickening. Can anyone suggest an alternative to Binance?

Their true reserve isn't publicly available, they only show you want they want you to see. Proof of reserve does not prove that an exchange is solvent. If every user of binance decides to withdraw their money all at the same time, binance is surely going to collapse because they cannot handle it. They are operating with a fractional reserve system, your funds in binance isn't in your wallet, it has been traded or gambled by binance for profit, if they lose it, your money or whatever reserve you think they have is all lost for good.
Since you are talking about 'savings', you should not be looking at exchanges as alternatives. Move your funds to open source self custody wallets like Electrum, BlueWallet or a hardware wallet, do not keep your money in any exchange.

You can name kucoin or any other, the result will be the same soon or later.
The problem is not really the exchanges, it's their shit products. Why some exchanges have almost never been bothered by the SEC or any other governmental agency? Because they don't have shit products. They are fair and consistent, they don't have shady methods to work like Binance. When they say they abide by the regulations, they trully do it. They don't lie, they don't help some customers to cheat the laws.

Why Binance is #1? Because they used your ass, and they lied to make it fancy


Dude.
Don't store your savings on Binance or whatever centralized exchange, it's totally silly!
It's not like if it was the money you won with a scratch ticket. Let's say, you have an emergency in your life and you need your savings and you discover that Binance has frozen your money. What do you do?

Is there any guarantee that the largest exchange can maintain its position as the largest exchange? We've seen what happened in the crypto market before Binance became as big as today. At least they can use the "small exchange" to trade and not have to worry about KYC issues as much as if they were trading on Binance which is probably still being watched by regulators.

Even though regulators want CBDCs to continue to function and be used by citizens, they can at least realize that citizens now have more choices than just using a CBDC. Regulators can still monitor the financial activities of their citizens because there are still many people who will use their fiat.

There is nothing directly written about gambling in their Terms of Use, they only state this:
I don't get it, is casino an illegitimate source or is gambling an illegal activity? No, so, in your case, they definitely abused their power, which is a crime.

By the way, their employees are helping Chinese users to bypass KYC verification. This is an abuse of TOS, this is an abuse of power. They own CoinMarketCap and manipulate trading volume, which again, is an abuse of power. I don't have proofs but I believe they manipulate Futures Trading and generate more money by liquidating assets. Yes, because there have been cases when futures price hugely differs from marketcap price and sometimes price in futures drops or rises hugely for a while to liquidate assets, this is the fact!

Binance is shady company! I'm really looking for an alternative. Still, there is so much demand and none businessmen/investors try to fulfill this demand.

Regulators are watching other centralized exchanges too, not only Binance, and as long as you are using centralized exchanges you have to worry about Kyc, because you must submit it, even if some will allow you trade small amounts without it, you can send money in there anytime and they lock it and tell you to submit kyc then. If you are leaving Binance for othe centralized exchanges or vise versa, you are still in the same circle, with all the same risks, there is no 'better' centralized alternative to binance, it is either one trades with decentralized p2p exchanges, or you use Binance with their shady ways of doing things, and move your money out of there immediately after you trade.

But even so, we can still be lucky because we still have exchanges that are not as strict as I mentioned, although we don't know if those exchanges will change the rules one day. And until that happens, we can still use the exchange to trade and make a profit. But p2p exchanges will also not be free from government supervision and p2p exchanges may also be asked to do KYC verification especially for their members. However, it will not be easy because the members just connect their personal wallets directly to the p2p exchange without verifying.

Correct P2P platforms will not be free from government supervision because you need to access the site, just like Localbitcoins was previously no KYC P2P, but now it's KYC P2P. Connect personal wallet to the P2P platform? it seems you're talking about swap platform which is less decentralized and it's true you can't verify if the site is legitimate or not.

But don't worry, we have Bisq (https://bisq.network/) where it's completely decentralized exchange and there's no central point, you can access it even the government shutdown the site because you're using Bisq through their software and you can verify the signature.

Yes, we should use a decentralized platform with a good reputation so nothing will happen to us. Bisq has provided a good opportunity for us to use it, but we also have to be careful and always make sure the link is so that we stay safe.

I just imagine that if crypto gets more and more popular, the government will try to contact the platform to verify and police it. Yes, we as users can only follow regulations from the government and it looks like we will later be limited in using crypto by the government.

I read all the nonsense that spammers from sig campaigns write in this thread, and I stumbled upon your post. If a week ago my experiences were fairly easy, now I am seriously thinking about withdrawing my funds from Binance as quickly as possible. The only question is whether it is worth using a centralized exchange to exchange and then withdraw coins from the exchange? I’m just worried that even if I don’t store my coins on Binance, but simply replenish my account in order to make an exchange, they can also block me without any explanation (despite the fact that I have a verified account).

I think it depends on where you are from and how you transact. While it's true I would withdraw/deposit most of my money on binance to and from casinos, I'm unsure as to the reason I even received a warning. I have been using them for many, many years. Fully verified, card user and always complying. I've stopped using them except for the occasional usdt/btc exchange. I've stopped using their card services as well, found better options elsewhere.

I like to think that if I were to be blocked they would allow me to withdraw any and all assets but you never really know that until it actually happens so I'd rather stay away altogether. Too many warning signs lately..

This is the a very terrible suggestion. I can't how many times they already screwed their customers in the past.

*freezing assets, missing deposits and vanishing assets*

I think some or many people really depend on Binance way too much. An alternative, instead of trusting in another CEX again,should be that people start to look out for interacting more through per-purchase purchases of bitcoin. Let there be more P2P than CEX. Only future traders should be concerned about the new CEX they must choose. It is in their interest to look for a CEX that they can use to carry out their trades. An alternative to Binance that crypto users should think about now is a decentralized platform for purchasing Bitcoin, a platform that doesn't require KYC.

It opposes the main idea of cryptocurrency. It aims to decentralize yet op wants centralize to manage its funds. This made think now that the idea of (de)centralization is a bs. How can you expect decentralization if it needs to be regulated by local government restrictions and supervision.  Use exchanges as an exchange. Use wallets to keep your funds. If you just want Binance features then use it so to do futures, farming, and stacking. The question is "If Binance goes down". but what if it doesn't? The thing is in any case, use many exchanges as you want. Advancements in many exchanges such Coinbase, Kucoin, or Bitstamp are still firm. Use it accordingly and to your advantage. It just happened that Binance is more established and progressing but other exchanging are also doing great in terms of transactions too.

Defi provides most of things that centralized platforms do, albeit not always condensed in one platform like binance, also you might have to look around a bit to find what you are looking for. If you are really tired, just give them up. If not, there are still cexes like kucoin which Bitcointalkers appear to praise around here.

I think the fact that we still have to hunt for good DEXs to use is a sign that we can't fully trust them yet - after all, it is possible for DEXs to exit scam as well.

There are a bunch of trustworthy DEXs listed at https://kycnot.me, the most prominent being (obviously) Bisq, but I have to saw, I dismantled my Bisq node after my Bitcoin to USDT trade did not go through after a few hours. An exchange should not only be safe, but also reasonably fast.

In my opinion, you should avoid centralized exchanges especially the unrecommended ones although they are easy to use and contain advanced tools. However, your funds are always under their control, that’s too risky to be honest in order to put all your crypto into them.  It is certain that Binance and Coinbase are the best centralized exchanges but not for long and safety is not guaranteed. What if their servers shut down permanently? What if they get hacked? Would you take your money back? Absolutely not.

In fact, it is preferable to use decentralized exchanges like uniswap which is the most popular one , covo , 1inch and pacakeswap. They provide a high security and the most important advantage is your funds are completely controlled by you not them . In addition to that, their servers are always online ( 24/7 ). For me, I would use a hardware wallet  like Trezor and Ledger  when it comes to BTC and ETH, it would be the best option for long time investement.

With the regulations spreading all around like a fire in the jungle, I don't think that decentralized exchanges will stay unregulated for very long. Soon, there will also be regulations imposed on decentralized exchanges which they will either need to accept or shut down their services, authorities are hunting down every source that provides decentralization to the masses.

The dream of having a world living with peace and harmony with cryptocurrencies around will only stay a dream forever, governments can never accept the fact that the people want freedom so they will never let them have that.

Yeah, pretty much this^

Centralized exchanges completely go against the very philosophy of Blockchain and cryptocurrency, which is to be your own bank. If you start trusting instead of verifying and give random strangers to hold your money for you, then at some point in time, you will lose everything. Whether through a hack or a bug or most likely just the government taking it from you for whatever reason.

DEX and p2p solutions are the best options right now. We might see some new inventions in the near future but for now you will just have to sacrifice comfort for security and freedom. (Which does not sound bad to me, if you were to ask)

I do not think that we have any alternative to binance at this moment because there is no centralised exchange that can match the volume of binance at the moment. At one time, i thought that FTX was one of the exchange which may overcome binance in the future but Binance CEP CZ just removed that exchange and competition from the market, making Binance more than bigger than ever.

Yeah one can think of Coinbase or Kraken exchange, to be the best alternatives but we are looking for the Chinese exchanges that may lead in the market after Binance

I will still be using binance but make sure I only put trading funds on that site in case any mishap happens. I still do not trust dex as they still lag in volume, liquidity and more importantly they do not possess same level of service as the centralized exchanges.

Considering the fact that centralized exchanges cover the highest percentage of volume for all the top coins and tokens, so decentralized exchanges obviously don't have enough liquidity to be able to provide their users with fast swaps, they simply wait for some other person to come and choose the same trading pair but asking for the opposite of what you have asked for, and then you will get the trade done.

This thing can only improve if more people start using decentralized exchanges, but for now, it seems people are not really interested in that, and the trend may only change if something very bad happens, like a big exchange collapsing or something.

Yeah that's the problem with Bisq - people keep recommending it but not so many using it so in the end you have to wait several days for someone to fill your order. Not the best option when you have to buy/sell ASAP or if you want to trade larger amounts.


Just because Binance has the largest volume doesn't mean that there are no alternatives that can be used. For vast majority of traders volume on Bybit, Kucoin or exchange of similar size is more than enough really.


Why it has to be Chinese exchange? I don't see OP mentioning that as a requirement.

As centralized exchanges continue to collapse, trusting them has become increasingly difficult. Despite not going well with CZ and Binance, if Binance were to collapse, the entire crypto market would collapse as well. Therefore, people will lose trust in centralized exchanges altogether. Instead, it is more secure to opt for a decentralized exchange and avoid storing funds in centralized exchanges.

For what's it worth, convert your btc to ethereum, and then use cowswap (https://swap.cow.fi) (to avoid front-running). Use instant swap, they don't hold your funds, you won't get exit scammed.


Dexes on ethereum make millions of trading volume daily. Use amm dexes and your order will be filled instantly.

Two scenarios that could happen, one is there will be a domino effect where traders will lose their trust in the centralized exchange industry and they will withdraw their coins in these centralized exchanges, or another big exchange will fill the void of Binance, if the first scenario happens there's a big probability that the market will crash, but if the second scenario happens the market will improve.
Everything is on speculation but the community is confident that CZ will take care of business as he worked hard to get his platform to that position.

This scenario creates confusion on which platform should we trust since even those big exchange collapsed or even the top 1 has many issue or threats regarding to this situations. Maybe for now we should not left any huge amount to those exchanges and try to put up some little amount when trading something since its hard to be stressed out reading up those discussions or article which creates fear about those top exchange showing sign to collapsed or legal issues net to settle.

At this point, I think it is an exaggeration to say that the collapse of Binance would mean the collapse of "the entire crypto market." Binance is not even comparable to Mt. Gox when the latter collapsed. When Mt. Gox collapsed, it was the epitome of a too-big-to-fail crypto institution. It handled more than 70% of all Bitcoin transactions all over the world.^[1] Not to mention that Bitcoin was still in its early infancy at that time. Bitcoin survived!

As a matter of fact, should Binance collapse today, it is not even totally surprising. There's already a whole bunch of prelude to it.

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[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox

That's exactly how an average person percieves Binance, being too big to fail and I even heard that from some people that lost money on both Celsius and FTX and are still holding significant amount of money on Binance.

Of course Bitcoin would survive and of course crypto market would recover, but Binance going down would affect market greatly, at least in the short-medium term because they are that big. Worst of all, even if Binance goes down I don't think that people would change the way they use centralized exchanges, like they didn't after Mt Gox. For that reason I woulnd't like to see Binance going down the same way FTX did because I don't think that anyone would learn any lesson from it and in a few years everything would be forgotten.

As much as I'd like to disagree, Celcius was founded the same year as Binance but only became popular in the last few years. I personally hadn't heard it until it was close to crashing. I understand your point, but I believe that Binance's case is different; it's accountable for the majority of the cryptocurrency trading volume. It sounds completely unlikely to ever happen, but not impossible nonetheless. I was also considering stopping using them but haven't bothered yet, and the fact that I find their service and mobile application convenient isn't helping.

Although if somehow Binance crashed, then other exchanges would also start a chain reaction of unwanted events that would alter cryptocurrencies as we currently know them.

Crypto community was way small during the existence of Mt Gox. As far as I know, Mt Gox was only used for bitcoin to fiat trading while on Binance you can trade with tons of altcoins. Number of cryptocurrencies and volume of crypto trading have tremendously grown over time, have a look at this: https://www.coingecko.com/en/global-charts
There is a huge difference between the number of crypto users in 2014 and in 2023. Binance hold too many bitcoins, has too many reserves, has too many users, owns too many other resources, including CoinMarketCap. I don't think the collapse of Binance, especially soon after the FTX collapse won't have a huge negative effect on bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. I don't say that Bitcoin will die but the negative effect will leave it's mark for a very long period of time.

looks like you're wrong, what I know is that binance is located in many countries (not just the USA) and reportedly their head office is in Malta.

btw I rarely use Binance, for trading I usually use Kucoin, so even though Binance will collapse, I don't think it's a big problem for me, but what catches my attention is the domino effect that will be created if Binance collapses, now I'm doing deposit or withdrawal with my country's fiat through one of the exchanges affiliated with Binance (tokocrypto) most likely if Binance collapses then all exchanges affiliated with binance also collapse so that I will immediately switch to one of the local exchanges that have a pretty good reputation in my country (indodax).

I don't see binance collapsing, there is no way they could get to CZ or binance as it's been playing well to the laws of every country where it operates.

But why would you choose Coinbase as your 2nd alternative if Binance falls? There are far better exchanges than coinbase or the DEX should be your best one because Binance falling only means centralized platforms will all fall.

He referred to Coinbase when he wrote "San Francisco-based company", not Binance. Regarding Binance, their headquarters is in Cayman Island (same was for FTX).


Care to share some of those far better (reputable) exchanges than Coinbase? Keep in mind that we are talking about centralized exchanges here, not DEX.


Of course there is a way, have you not learned anything from what has happened so far? But go on, keep beliveing CZ that your money is SAFU.  :D

Binance have been breaking numerous financial laws and doing shady business for a very long time, even last month the CFTC charged binance for violating numerous regulations, but you and many other people who believe in CZ still think binance is too big to fail and funds are SAFU. Binance collapsing is a possibility, and to be sure your money isn't lost if that happens, move it into your self custody whenever you are done trading.

The problem with that is having CEX as your main exchange, you are definitely going to have a problem with that. You only need to rely on DEXs to make sure that it's transparent and that you actually hold the coins in your wallet.

Is there any link between the facts that were discovered and something? I might be a little delayed with the news currently.

Let's not bury Binance prematurely, because despite all the Fud, the exchange continues its work. If you really consider yourself to be a trader, then you should have registration on at least several other cryptocurrency exchanges, such as Kucoin and Bybit.

Why does it have to be a Chinese exchange? Kraken looks like a normal alternative but oh my god, their interface sucks.

Well, I don't actually bury it and I even think they Binance will manage to survive because they generate tons of money and have a huge influence & big power in their own hands in crypto world. But the USA is so seriously against of Chinese CEOs and companies. Have you seen the court case of TikTok CEO? Americans were asking such a dumb question to this man, like, one for example: Does TikTok access the home WiFi network? And then they were saying that this is a clear evidence that TikTok is a guilty, bla bla. The USA is really against Chinese companies and I'm afraid they'll go against Binance too, this may cause panic on their platform and people may withdraw money, they may have withdraw delays, I just want to avoid all the unnecessary headache, that's all.

I personally use KuCoin over Binance and I also prefer KuCoin over Binance every day. It's easy , it has easy interface even for beginners and I still think you don't need KYC to actually make some trading there but I'm not sure of this. At some point even Bittrex was a good choice for me but they lack consistent on volume trading and they tend to delete good altcoins from time to time.

Binance is still a good exchange and it will remain like this as long as they will have this huge volume in trading but the choice to use it it's up to each of us and I remember at some point , DEX Exchanges were the "next future" and here we are a couple of years later and no real signs of DEX taking over or even having the necessary trust anymore to use it.

Exactly and traders should have learnt their lessons by now with the incident of FTX experience., people should be able to adopt and master the use of other exchange. Also they have to limit the amount of coins they hodl in cex, it is better to move them out to a personal wallet. But binance is very much concentrating on its issue and going on with her business. We don't have to spread fud faster than it is.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, there is no alternative to binance when you consider the centralized exchanges. There is no exchange which can be trusted for now other than binance. So if you are looking to trade in centralized exchange binance is still the best one to trade on. You will get most liquidity here plus i believe that other small exchanges can collapse or scam but binance may stay for longer duration.

Still if you want to quit binance, then try to trade at different decentralized exchanges and see for yourself which exchanges suits you and provides you most services similar to centralized exchanges.

Forget about these features of centralized exchanges. These are the reasons why centralized exchanges have held us down and even CZ had the guts to say if anything happens to centralized exchanges that majority of people in the bitcoin cannot secure their coins.
For you to have your privacy 100%, you must be able to sacrifice some things which includes the above listed features of centralized exchanges.

I was a big centralized man, but I think it is not yet late to transition to privacy man. And when I asked a similar question to yours, o_e_l_e_o  pointed me here...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5448948.msg62099024#msg62099024  and I think I am enjoying it gradually

As much as this is a good idea to ditch the centralized platform, unfortunately we have a few options out there that can matchup to them, and the fact that these guys are available in several other countries and support quite a huge list of coins make them still relevant in this crypto industry inspite of their regulatory battles and what not..

Btw easy for some users to say leave them(Binance) because  they have access to bitcoin atms, crypto cards to cash out and several other exchanges operating  in their home towns, but for people with no choice not even a Dex will be the best option as these platforms reap people off with below market price coins  or over price coins when you want to buy on these platforms...for now while still looking for a new crypto home Binance is okay just dont leave your coins on the exchange and read T&Cs before using this platform if you are new to their  service.

After Bybit announced mandatory KYC, I'm also struggling to find my next CEX.
For some of us CEX-es are mandatory to use, DEX-es don't have the needed liquidity for stoploss placement nor the amount of pairs with decent volume.

I heard about something called Phemex (no KYC apparently) but plan to use BingX. Please DYOR because I know nothing about it other than it's being shilled by the same guy who shilled Bybit early on.

Never put a lot on CEX-es, especially unsafe ones like the ones I mentioned above. Just sharing a few that I will check further due to (apparently) no KYC requirements.

If you know any more, please add them to the list.

Kucoin is a very underated exchange, it has all the quality to be a top tier exchange and that's if it isn't one already. I remember when I was using it back then, it didn't require KYC for a good amount of withdrawals. The exchange is a complete replicate of Binance exchange, if you want to use Binance without using Binance exchange then kucoin is your best choice. They have numerous trading pairs and also theh have the Binance coin trading on the exchange which is very rare as other exchange hardly list other exchanges native token on their platforms.

First I thought Kucoin was a product of Binance exchange but they aren't and would be a perfect alternative to Binance exchange if you're taking about centralized exchange. But if you aren't looking to go centralized again and lookimg for a decentralized,l exchange, then you can use the best option that was already suggested to you by @RickDeckard. Binance has just been under regulatory attacks lately and I'm beginning to wonder if it's just karma returning a favour since Binance exchange has been playing it dirty for quite sometimes now. A perfect example was their involvement in the collapse of FTX exchange owned by SBF

How about hybrid exchanges that combine the strengths of both CEXs and DEXs?
Many used to cite Eidoo, Josyo, Legolas, Nash, NEXT, Qurrex as examples. Half of them are no longer available and the rest have turned into a different type of service. Hybrid exchanges seem to be dead as a class.

I haven't heard about any of the exchanges which you have mentioned in your post. By the way, centralized and decentralized exchanges operate in a totally separate manner. In centralized exchanges, you access the site with the username and password and transfer money to the exchange while in a decentralized wallet, you connect your wallet with the exchange and never transfer money to the exchange.

I do not understand how these two features can be combined at a same time which results in an hybrid exchange  ???

Because that's impossible. Most of the hybrid exchanges are established and known companies which they think are good for adopting some decentralized mechanism. However, as long as it is indicated that they are using a centralized system at several points, they will not escape regulatory action. For example binance DEX or IDEX which in the end they have to restrict their service to some countries (https://cointelegraph.com/news/binance-dex-navigating-country-specific-cryptocurrency-trading-restrictions), and require verification (https://cryptobriefing.com/idex-kyc-users/).

back year ago FTX is alternative of binance  ;D but you know the story later if you re futures trader there is bunch of option decentralized finance on BSC ecosystem pancakeswap now offering perpetual futures too.

Now I'm using bybit and binance but bybit is recommended to do the KYC for all user spot trade with bunch of option is Tokocrypto Indonesian exchange based on binance cloud

There is no liquidity on many cryptocurrency exchanges. With a large selection of coins, there is no analogue of Binance.
I use the Gate and Huobi exchange. Often lacking liquidity

honestly I never thought that anything like that could happen. and also never thought of keep an alternative option just in case anything happens. but I don't think coinbase is the right choice. because coinbase doesn't work in some countries. but binance can  work on almost world wide.
I think Binance would be my only and last CEX exchange. if anything wrong with binance then I am totally done with CEX and will 100% more to decentralized means DEXes for my trading activities. I don't see any other CEX to replace Binance for me.

Why not? The fact that Binance works worldwide is the reason why it has some problems, they do things in a shady ways. Look, Binance employees allegedly help Chinese customers to bypass KYC measures. It was servicing US customers without complying with US laws, you can see a lot of articles about this.
Personally, I don't want to wait till things go down, that's why I created this thread and if you don't trade with Futures, Margin trading and don't use all the privileges that centralized exchanges offers and just do spot trading, then go and choose safer route.

Don't put all your hopes on centralized exchange and never should you rely on just one considering you decide to make use of only centralized exchanges, they can collapse or run out of business at any moment. Before Binance we had other popular exchanges but they're out of business today or having very low patronage and same thing can happen to Binance exchange too. Don't think because Binance exchange is so popular that they can't go down. We saw something similar with FTX exchange as it collapse even with all the backing from politicians and investors, same thing can happen to Binance so always keep an alternative which is preferable DEXes.


You did the right thing and I hope you have gotten some strong alternative as I have seen some suggestions on the thread and I have given mine as well. I hope you do know we have decentralized exchange offering those service as well and not just centralized exchange. I can't verify if those exchange are fully decentralized since I haven't used them myself but I have seen project focused on margin trading and they present themselves as decentralized. I believe the only problem here is that they won't have same liquidity as the centralized exchanges but they can be used as alternative as well.

Unfortunately for you or anyone else expecting binance to go down, nothing of such as happened yet. There have been several fud targeted at binance trying to reck the exchange obviously from haters but so far their attempt has failed.
You know you don't have to wait for binance to go down before you switch to a different centralized exchange, there are plenty of option, but keep in mind that no where is 100% clean, even coinbase is not exactly exempted.

Haven't you learn anything yet? why would you keep funds in centralize exchange? not your keys not your money, go and keep your funds on a personal owned wallet like the hardware wallet and stop worrying about binance coz even if you leave, they can hardly notice your absence.  

If we do really tend to count out on how many issue and Fuds on which Binance had, then it would really be counted by our fingers and just as said that no one had succeeded out on taking it down even with the recent
Binance.us issue.Unlike into those previous or old years about in regarding Poloniex and Bittrex which it did really end up on a disaster with those companies but it is really totally different on what we are seeing on
Binance. Instead on decreasing its trust and popularity, it did really goes up even more and this is why it do still stand up on the top of the ranks.If we are really that mindful about the risks then its always been a golden
rule on not to store up any assets or making it as a main wallet for any exchanges out there, doesnt matter if its really that the current #1 platform or not, it wont really be giving out that 100% safe thing.
Speaking about alternatives then there are lots on the lists, its up to you which one would suit out your preference and likings but of course with just common sense then you would be able to
stick on whats the current popular among the list.

Fortunately we still have a local exchange that can still be used, if Binance goes down, but right now I'm still using Binance, Coinbase exchange is not good for me, but Coinbase is better for other people.

However, I have used several exchanges, Binance I stayed with, others I abandoned, of course I did that for my personal reasons, despite some negative news and responses to Binance, I hope it has no effect in the future, hoping Binance exchange stays safe and survives.

Why still use Binance or Coinbase during this uncertainty...why use them at all when centralized exchanges have proven to be dangerous time and time again? Why continue to run the several risks (theft, manipulation, sacrifice of privacy) by continuing to use centralized exchanges after moving away from Binance when the time comes that you have to?

Why not use Peer to Peer marketplaces like HodlHodl and AgoraDesk for your fiat <> crypto needs, and decentralized exchanges/bridges for on-chain movements? You retain privacy, custody and gain exposure to data oracles instead of centralized price data. Risk and security is much more in your control.

Because active traders don't really have other options. Then again, traders don't use centralized exchange as their cold storage and instead they have only a smaller part of their portfolio there and they usually understand the risks involved while that's not the case with an average crypto enthusiast and that's where problems start.



Decentralized exchanges simply don't have enough liquidity and certain tools (like cross leverage) needed for speculators so they are not suitable for all users.

P2p markets don't always offer competitive pricing options as there are only a few traders available on a single platform (sometimes too expensive compared to spot rates). And also the limited choices of currency lists, local banks offered by existing traders.

I prefer to see the other side of the mirror - I refuse to accept to pay the price that bitcoin has on CEX's (such as Binance or Coinbase). The price that you're paying is almost the same as spot rates because you're giving away something that is priceless - your privacy. When put into perspective, I would much rather pay a premium regarding the current price of bitcoin just for the sake of preserving my privacy (while, at the same time, supporting P2P market). Do remember the title of Bitcoin Whitepaper[1] and you'll see what I'm referring to.

---

[1]https://bitcoinwhitepaper.co/ (https://bitcoinwhitepaper.co/)

In addition to this, P2P is not instant since there's a waiting for the other party to process the transaction before you received your exchange currency unlike CEX and DEX that offers on the spo trading that user can benefit during a price fluctuation to have a better price entry. I'm a P2P user and the only time I'm using P2P is when I need to convert fiat since that's the only way. There's a lot of danger on P2P since you need to be vigilant on who is you are dealing because they can send fake screenshot for receipt to mislead user that doesn't check actual accoutn balance.

Ohhh how inconvenient, you have to wait (usually less than 15 minutes, up to an hour) for a trader to accept the trade! This makes centralized exchanges so much more superior!
/sarcasm
If you are selecting traders who have a more than established reputation, it's extremely unlikely you'll be subject to the kinds of fraud that you've mentioned. Reputable traders make a lot more from trading legitimately via their fees in comparison to a quick score. If you're choosing new users with low reputation, then of course you'll be subject to issues.

Sure, be vigilant...though it's not as bad as you make it out to be. Once you do a few P2P trades, I've found that you usually find a few traders which you know are reliable from experience, then having to be vigilant is less of a concern.


Unless you are trading more than $1-$10m, liquidity on dexes and bridges isn not an issue for the average user.


Once you establish relationships with traders, you can generally get better rates if the trade is still profitable for them. You can also go offsite if you trust them. Before that, the rates aren't that bad if you do reasonable amounts. Limitations of payment options, personally never experienced that issue though maybe it's different globally. I'm sure cash is available everywhere though.

Well, you are the one who asked why use centralized exchanges and I told you that there is a certain group of people (mainly pro traders) who simply have no options if they want to do their job as efficiently as possible.

Hopefully that changes in the future and DEX will be able to offer to those type of users everything CEX can, but until then I don't see them losing popularity.

Actually there are some decentralized solutions that do provide the tools that pro traders can use, without the need to use centralized exchanges. One of these tools are GMX.io. There are also similar layer 2 solutions which offer a suite of trading tools that are just as good, if not better than CEXs. I'll build a list in Altcoin discussion and bring it here when it's done.

I agree, CEXs retain popularity for now. Though I am sure there will be a polar shift quite soon. The functionality isn't as limited as 1 year ago when it comes to high frequency DEX trading vs. High frequency CEX trading.


There are other options, trust me. They just need to be looked for.

I'll post the layer2 dex thread this week and come back when it's done :)

I'll talk about my case for example, I also don't like and don't trust exchanges, but I do day trade, so for that I need to keep following the price, looking at the chart and when I see that there is a good buying opportunity I buy right away, so far there is nothing complex and it could be done on decentralized exchanges, but the problem arises that when I buy bitcoin at $30,500 for example, I need to protect myself from the risk of the price falling too much, so for that I use the stop-loss, and if I left bitcoin in my wallet, I wouldn't have this stop-loss feature and I don't know if decentralized exchanges have this feature

another point has to do with volume, binance has good volume in the btc - usdt pair for me to day trade, not to mention that it has a good interface, obviously I don't put a lot of money there and I don't put all my capital, I put a part of the money destined for me to day trade. I believe that centralized exchanges will always be superior to decentralized ones for several reasons, I myself have already mentioned these various reasons in this post. also, we can't forget that in this cryptocurrency market lately everything asks for kyc, so centralization is the way we are going

I do fear that when I talk about decentralized exchanges, people tend to think of Uniswap only and don't explore further than that. If you are looking only at decentralized exchanges like Uniswap, then you are right. The position management features (like stops and take profits) are not available. However it should be noted that Uniswap is better described as a decentralized swap platform, not really an exchange.

I highly recommend checking out Arbitrum One, an Ethereum layer 2 solution which has many decentralized exchange projects that are reliable, liquid, and some of which have stood the test of time. One of these are GMX.io, which has the features you are looking for. I only suggest GMX over other solutions as this DEX has definitely stood the time test to date.

If you're worried about liquidity of Arbitrum, it is the top layer 2 solution in terms of TVL (total value locked). In other words, it has more liquidity than all Ethereum-based solutions other than Ethereum itself. If you're worried about fees per trade, transaction fees are less than $0.01 generally and trading fees are generally more competitive than centralized exchanges. In terms of volume and trade data, most decentralized exchanges use Oracle data and AMMs (automated market makers) to ensure prices have no slippage (just like Binance do, by the way. What you see is AMMs not 100℅ real trading volume by real traders).

Arbitrum have a directory of Dex's on their website. I recommend you go check it out, give them a try and report back your results so others can take note of this alternative.

It might seem like centralization is where we are headed to those who aren't fully aware of the alternatives like Arbitrum and other solutions...though the reality is we are splitting. The unaware will KYC on CEXs while the wise will move to decentralized solutions (since they are already liquid and available).

It looks like Binance is currently pushing Source of Wealth Declarations in several European countries.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/07/12/Zvuh1.png

Source: https://twitter.com/heartereum/status/1679152137182257152/photo/1

In addition, there have been rumours in Germany for some time that Binance has passed on transaction histories and user data to the authorities on a large scale (but there is no direct source for this). However, the authorities have announced in the Bitcoin.de court case in which 4000 data sets were handed to the NRW authorities, that other exchanges could follow soon. In this case, suspicion falls on Binance again.

If you have to use a CEX as a FIAT gateway, think twice if you still want to use Binance.

This is only available for shitcoins and they don't support fiat currencies, so this is more or less all worthless crap.

I am not supporting Binance at all, but I don't think they are the first exchange who is doing this, so they are probably pushed by some regulations from those European countries.
This is unacceptable for anyone who want's to have more privacy, but I guess they wouldn't be on Binance after they announced strict kyc rules.
Luckily there are solid decentralized alternatives like Bisq, Peach Bitcoin, Robosats, Agora desk, etc. for exchanging Bitcoin to fiat and vice versa.

So far I haven't gotten anything so I guess Croatia is not included yet, but since they started enforcing this in some EU countries its just a matter of time when it becomes mandatory for users in all EU countries.


Even if its just a rumour, sooner or later it will become reality as that will be the only way Binance will get license to operate in EU.

LOL. Majority of the DEXs only support top 50 currencies, some just the top 10. If you're referring to wrapped tokens are shitcoins, they're completely liquid and bridgeable with no slippage from the layer 2 chain, to ethereum or even the Bitclin blockchain.

As for fiat on ramps, some of the DEXs do have card gateways because they are established technology companies. Obviously you're just being one sided with your outdated opinion and haven't actually looked into Arbitrum and how powerful it actually is...and, how liquid it is.

You may have been right to call WBTC and other tokens shitcoins 3 years ago when they first came about' however the liquidity of Arbitrum and the wrapped tokens in the Ethereum ecosystem are as liquid, if not more liquid, than some of the centralized exchanges that people still use.

Since dkbit98 is essentially a bitcoin maxi, everything else is shitcoin including all those "top ones" (except maybe Monero?) no matter how liquid they are, hence his stance.

Either you can't read what I wrote or you are pretending you don't understand.
I am not interested in any wrap shit and I was talking mostly about fiat currencies.
Liquidity for most shitcoins is fake and everyone knows that, well maybe except you.

Go ahead and try to sell Bitcoin for fiat currencies on those ''top'' shitcoin exchanges, and tell me how it goes for you.
Good luck.

It's all semi-scam shitcoins controlled by creator of that centralized chains, and few of his buddies.
This is a fact, sorry for bursting your dream bubble, and do more research about this.

Yea, you are maybe right.

What annoys me the most is not necessarily the fact that Binance may have handed over user data to the German authorities (that's also crap ofc, but if they want to operate in the EU, they have to comply with the law). But rather that this may have happened on a large scale and without a German court order.

And it feels more like this: Hey authorities, take everything you want and much more, as long as you let us continue to do business in your country.

If Binance, in anticipatory obedience, really passes on my data to any authority without my knowledge and without being legally obliged to do so, I find that more than questionable. To be honest, there can be no greater red flag.

And the case around the German exchange Bitcoin.de is in fact completely different. Until the data was handed over to the German authorities, there was a long legal dispute, because Bitcoin.de was initially not willing to hand over the user data. Only when they were obliged to do so by a German court ruling they handed over the data. They at least tried to protect the privacy of their users. Binance, on the other hand, doesn't seem to care about the privacy of its users at all.

I could say the same thing as I never once mentioned that DEXs provided the ability to sell crypto for fiat. No dex does, because it can't be a DEX otherwise.

The wrapped assets are not garbage if they're entirely liquid and made liquid in a decentralized manner. Wrapped assets have been around for a long time and they exist on all EVM chains to enable decentralized usage. They will only become garbage if decentralized protocols on Bitcoin beat utility and capability of EVM chains, which at this point is extremely unlikely anytime soon.

I AM NOT talking about true shitcoins. Like pump and dump memecoin crap or scam/hyped projects. I am talking about wrapped assets like WBTC, WETH, etc. Which are perfectly viable and liquid on the top chains, and will be for as long as use cases on EVMs are wider than BTC.

They have card gateways for buying. Swapping them back into BTC is easy, requires no slippage and is a liquid process. The purpose of DEXs are not to liquidate BTC for fiat, it's to decentralize trading of blockchain assets.

If you want to sell for fiat, use P2P. If you're still using CEXs for withdrawing, you're a pleb.


You're not bursting any dream bubble, as the dream bubble doesn't exist. It's already reality. I see and use these protocols on a daily basis and am talking from experience.

If you honestly think all layer2/EVM ecosystems are controlled by few people and the protocols within them are fake, you are the one in the bubble. There are tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of contributors who are building web3 via EVMs.

Yes, I agree, no due diligence = likelihood of scam. Is that not the case in Bitcoin too? So when there's bad actors in an ecosystem, the entire ecosystem should be considered scam? How is that mentality any better than the bankers and the media when they were calling bitcoin a criminal network, a scam, a ponzi, etc? It's exactly the same mentality...

The real semi-scam created by a creator and a few of his buddies are Binance and Tron. Decentralized protocols that are true, open source and liquid are for the betterment of finance, just like Bitcoin.


Being a maxi was fine til 2020. Before that; "everything else is a shitcoin" was a perfectly reasonable outlook. 2021/2022 that same outlook was appropriate for the sake of skepticism but reality is that you were losing touch. 2023 you're just unaware. 2024 onwards you'll just be sounding more and more repetitive and factually inaccurate, and eventually people will not only get sick of correcting you, but sick of reading what you have to say.

Innovation does not only legitimately reside within the Bitcoin ecosystem. If you believe that, right now you're just unaware...soon you'll start hurting your own credibility through shortsightedness...Just like banks, politicians and media did when they acted like money couldn't be innovated and every money system other than fiat was a form of scam.

This is not true!
All decentralized exchanges I mentioned all have real volume, not like your ''top gun'' exchanges  :D

They are all centralized garbage, and please STOP promoting shitcoin and shitcoin services in this forum section.
All tokens claiming to be Bitcoin are NOT bitcoin, that is a fact, but go ahead and use them if you want.

No, use your shitcoin exchanges for selling, you said they work with fiat, so use them if you can... don't mix P2P exchanges here.

Hahaha what a bunch of fantasy dreams.
Try running a node on those shitcoins, it's almost impossible to do it for regular person and I don't know a single person who runs shitereum and polyscam nodes.

No it's not.

The funniest thing about your post is that you've picked out very little of what I said to try and invalidate what I'm saying, and still managed to fail miserably  ;D

They're P2P exchanges that are decentralized. They aren't built for position trading. They're built for infrequent trading. Fees do not allow you to trade at high frequency.

I never called any of the exchanges I'm talking about top gun, so I don't know why you put that in quotes. I called them innovative, because in comparison to CEXs, they are innovative.


I'm not promoting them, and you're not a mod, so kindly fuck off :)
These tokens aren't claiming to be Bitcoin. They provide a peg to Bitcoin, so that you can use EVM capability/utility, as you can't do the same things with Bitcoin. They are not garbage, they are legitimate, they are liquid. That's factual, not opinion...the blockchain proves that.



I said some EVM DEXs have card gateways to buy crypto as well. I never said anything about withdrawing to bank - that's not what decentralized exchange protocols on EVMs are for. They're to provide an alternative to things like Binance trading.

Quote me where I said absolutely anything about being able to sell to bank or fiat at any point in regards to the DEXs I'm talking about.

And I mentioned P2P exchanges because if you want to sell, that's where you go. Not an EVM DEX.


I run nodes for both lol. It's a little bit more difficult than BTC to setup, but not so much harder that it would create some sort of exclusivity barrier.

So I can trust everything in the bitcoin ecosystem with no chance of loss?
Stfu lol.

Only in your little brain maybe, but you can think whatever you want.

You can't name a single example.

You used word TOP several times so don't pretend to be dumber than you are please.

There it is now, showing your true shit-face of an asshole  :P
Feel free to continue with personal insults, that is one thing shitcoiners are usually good at, and yes you are promoting shitcoins with your posts.

Another shitcoin promotion that is not based on actual facts.

Yeah sure, you run nodes  ::)
I won't continue this oftopic conversation, so do don't expect me to answer anything on all of your future posts.
Adios.

You've done the exact same thing in your post again. It's not what's in my little brain, it's what's visual to anyone viewing how you're creating your posts. You don't address where you're wrong, you misconstrue very particular parts of the post to make it look like you've debunked one of my comments...until I come back and response.


You're clearly looking through a hateful lens, this reply made 0 sense and shows you aren't reading my posts and/or doing what I described above.

Excerpt:

^ What I was referring to were the exchanges you highlighted (Bisq, Peach bitcoin, Agoradesk, Hodlhodl etc)...They're P2P exchanges/marketplaces. Bisq probably being the most decentralized of p2p marketplaces/exchanges - Though the point was, they're not the kind of exchanges I was referring to - I was referring to EVM DEXs/decentralized crypto exchanges - being ones that are built for position management (not decentralized fiat<>crypto exchanging). Reading back on my post, that was pretty clear (when you read the whole sentence(s) and not the 6 words you snipped out of it.


You're acting as if I said "Top" like they are on top of every single exchange. The context I was referring to was that they are the top in their ecosystem. For example, GMX is one of the top EVM DEXs in the Arbitrum ecosystem (and, in the Layer 2 space). That's pretty clear when you read the full post.

Here's two posts where I mentioned "TOP" referring to Arbirtrum being the layer 2 ecosystem with the most TVL (fact) and most EVM DEXs only supporting top 10-50 currencies (fact)



I'm not pretending to be dumb, nor am I. From a third party perspective who has blockchain knowledge, I'm really not concerned and not at all insecure about who looks dumb and who doesn't in this chain of posts.


Telling you to kindly fuck off for trying to be a moderator is really does not render me as "true shit-face of an asshole". Telling you to "stfu lol" after some shitpostin such as telling me that Bitcoin has no likelihood of scam even when you aren't doing any due diligence:


Also doesn't render me that (in my eyes anyway, felt warranted to both laugh and tell you to stfu after that post)

but I can understand your feelings considering how burned you've gotten throughout this entire chain and the strategies that you're resorting to in order to not be seen as unintelligent, argumentative, irrational and not at all knowledgeable outside of the sphere of Bitcoin.

At no point in this thread, or any other thread where I've talked about EVMs and Layer 2s, have I ever promoted a shitcoin (according to my definition). Since your definition is that everything other than BTC is a shitcoin, then sure. I, and many others who aren't in your bubble, are considered shitcoin promoters (to you, which is very very far from majority/consensus).


It is based on facts. Bridging, web3, Ethereum, layer2's and their volume, usage and development on open-source platforms like Github, are the proof. If you're really trying to trick people into thinking that these ecosystems simply don't exist, who are you actually trying to fool at this point?


It really does not take a genius to run an Ethereum, polygon, arbitrum, or any layer 2 node. It's pretty much elementary to use your own full node if you're using these chains as well, for the sake of increasing privacy and retaining your data.

The off-topic conversation was fueled by yourself and your clear lack of education about the blockchain innovations that are happening outside of Bitcoin. I'm happy to keep burning you (I'm sure outsiders who have the same/vaster knowledge of non-btc blockchains are smiling) but I'm also happy to stop wasting time here :) Nice talking with you and good to see your true colors!