Bitcoin Forum

So.... I was experimenting with bitaddress.org, and printed out a few paper wallets.  Suppose I want to get rid of one.  How can I tell the client to send bitcoins from the paper wallet's (that I want to get rid of) private key only?

I'm pretty sure the client doesn't let you do that. Have you already imported that key into your computer's wallet? Have you imported any other keys into the same wallet?

I assume you sent some of your bitcoins from your standard client program to some of the public addresses you printed out on bitaddress.org.  Hopefully you kept the printouts you used since you now will need the private key to reclaim the bitcoins.

Now you have to import the private key.

There are three placed I know of that allow you to import private keys:

1) Mt Gox - Do you have a Mt Gox account?  If not is kind of painful but may be worth your time.

2) StrongCoin.com - very easy to set up an account and then very easy to import the private key there.  Once you have the bitcoins in your StrongCoin account then you can send them anywhere.  But note that there is a 1% fee to send coins from the StrongCoin account

3) Pywallet - download and install pywallet.  This program attaches itself to you wallet.dat file and allows you to dump the contents etc. and also allows you to import private keys directly into your wallet.dat (your client program).

This is how I do it... start with an empty wallet... import the key you want to spend... spend it.

I am in the habit of using paper wallets regularly, so having an empty online wallet isn't hard for me.  If I have "change" I need to empty off, I just send it to a fresh paper wallet address (or one that has been used for previous small change, so it's easy to combine it all together).

One other thing that has made my life much easier with respect to paper wallets is a handheld USB QR code scanner.  I also have a cheesy little database app I made that lets me put all the transactions I intend to execute for a given day (which is typically funding physical coins), and combines it into one huge "sendmany" so I can import BTC and transact it all at once.  Doing this, I often avoid transaction fees as well.

Spending coins from a given address is also an important step toward better bitcoin privacy. Hoping it gets into the satoshi client sooner rather than later.

That "sendmany" app sounds very useful. It will especially be useful for making massive microtransaction payments online by combining the addresses into one Bitcoin transaction.

You can use sendmany directly from the program in v 0.5 of the client.  Just keep adding recipients and when the transaction is ready, click "send".

Yeah, I've already imported the keys into my computer's wallet.


I suppose I could use StrongCoin, but they charge a 1% fee.  I could also use a different wallet on my computer by launching Bitcoin from a separate Windows user account.  Alas, is there no streamlined way?

Yes. just create a shortcut to the bitcoin exe file and add the command line param to change the data directory: bitcoin.exe -datadir mydatadir

Here's another excellent patch that hasn't made it into the C++ client, presumably because it is too useful:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24784.0

July video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA_O6Boi7Xo

Agreed.

Why does this seem to be all-too-true with regards to the official client?

Because Satoshi was a Windows developer.

Seriously. Tiny utilities piped together would have been more transparent, stable and extensible.

There's a lot of truth to this.  Each utility does one job and it does it right.  Slap a GUI on top of that and you're done.  Utilities could be added and the GUI patched to use them, even if they're not from the "reference implementation".

Exactly, it's not like bitcoin is fundamentally complex. It's basically PGP, GIT, and BitTorrent merged poorly.

I presume a rewrite would still be compatible with the current network. I think if anyone is willing to work on such a project it's worth doing right.

I would keep the existing client but add an add-on or plugin framework to it so the external tools could be easily included to the standard official client that for most are still the most trusted one even if far from perfect.

bitcoinspinner (android app) can work directly with a QR code reader. Trusting your phone might not be the smartest thing to do, but it's still perfect for quick and simple transactions


Wow, this really works? Awesome


This is good to know, but it would be even nicer if there was a parameter just for a wallet file outside the data folder. Then, we could finally name them more auspiciously like notmylifesavings.dat or driverfnord234.dat

Genjix' libbitcoin fits the bill: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30646

Bitcoinjs (based on node.js) is quite modular.

and Open-Transactions is a crypto platform/library with heavy bitcoin support.

FYI the Open-Transactions library itself doesn't implement Bitcoin, although the test GUI (Moneychanger) does have a Bitcoin screen.

I prefer to view OT as something used "with" Bitcoin.

I wish you would implement some of the bitcoin protocol within OT. I am frustrated with the conservative reference platform's refusal to embrace side-channel transactions. An OT client which didn't just facilitate smart contracts denominated in bitcoin but actually handled bitcoin transaction and key management would be killer.

Be careful not to follow the plight of Google Wave: a superior framework too abstract to catch hold.

Honestly, if I was going to make some calls to Bitcoin, then I would just include libbitcoin, I wouldn't bother coding it myself. (It'd just be duplicating work.) I seriously doubt that I could make a better implementation of Bitcoin than what Genjix is already doing with libbitcoin.

OT is a useful tool in conjunction with Bitcoin, and the best way to use them together (in your own software) would be to include the OT library to do the OT stuff, and include libbitcoin to do the Bitcoin stuff, and all cross-over transactions between the two is the job of YOUR software, which is connecting the two.

this really is the most useful client patch ever. it will open your eyes about bitcoin anonymity.

v0.3.x worked like a charm. I updated to v0.5 because of encryption but there is no sendfromaddress patch yet. every time I send some coins I wonder from which addresses they will be send and which addresses will be connected forever.

support coderrr !!

Sure, OT + libbitcoin + GUI. At this point, it's too abstract for me, and 99% of people here. In the very least if there were a bunch of utilities, then I could bash script some stuff, slowly getting into it. By Google Wave analogy, you can't just build a beautiful palace underground and expect its brilliance to be self-evident. I know it's much to ask, but that's the way with software. We need to feel it, touch it, see it, use it, before we 'get it'. As it is right now, I can only smell OT, though it smells delicious.

nifty feature, already commented on github  https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/415 (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/415)

Here is the test GUI: https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Moneychanger (https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Moneychanger)

Here is a video walkthrough of me using the GUI:
Accounts, Cash: http://vimeo.com/28141679 (http://vimeo.com/28141679)
Markets, Bitcoin: http://vimeo.com/28142096 (http://vimeo.com/28142096)

I should warn you that a "real" GUI will have a completely different interface than the test GUI, so please don't read too much into the UI "design" since its primary purpose is for protocol testing.

Here's a sample UI design that is probably more accurate for a "real" GUI (left side): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31032.msg399675#msg399675 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31032.msg399675#msg399675)

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Here is the output of ot -?


There is also an OT> prompt, which you can activate like so:
OT Prompt instructions (scroll down): https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki/Test-Wallet-commands (https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki/Test-Wallet-commands)

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Here is the entire client API, with explanation for each function: https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki/API (https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki/API)

Better yet, here are clear instructions for USING the API, for each use case: https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki/Use-Cases (https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki/Use-Cases)

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FYI, the OT client API is fully-scriptable. If you would like to make your own shell scripts, just put #!/usr/local/bin/ot --script at the top of any text file, and then feel free to use any of the API calls.  Here are some sample scripts:  https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/blob/master/scripts (https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/blob/master/scripts)

(As I just released the scripting code within the past few days, you can expect more sample scripts to start appearing soon. Eventually there will be scripts for every use case.)

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Here is a test server, if you want to try out the GUI: http://sourceforge.net/projects/galacticmilieu/files/ (http://sourceforge.net/projects/galacticmilieu/files/)
(Related thread): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53329.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53329.0)

OT comes with a "localhost" test server, so the easiest way to get started is to just run the server yourself, and then run the GUI against your own local server. I have also provided builds of everything, if you don't want to have to deal with compiling: https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/downloads (https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/downloads)
To start up the server (after make install) type this:  ot_server

If you need any support, you can email me: fellowtraveler at rayservers dot net.

I can also often be found on #opentransactions at irc.freenode.net and there are others there who run servers, if you need questions answered and I'm not around.

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I don't think I can do any more hand-holding than I already am.
FYI, I am not going to write a nice Mac OSX GUI, for these reasons:

1) I do OT in my free time and I can't take on any more projects.

2) There are more projects needing to be done than I could possibly ever code myself.  We need a QT client, Android client, iOS client, Mac OSX client, Windows client, Magneto integration, i2p integration, Tahoe-LAFS integration, POS system, Tor integration. ETC!  (I cannot possibly write all of these although I am willing to try, if you are willing to fund me.)

3) As businesses, gamers, investors, forward-thinkers, early-adopters, etc are already popping up to take advantage of OT, I feel confident at this point that the base will only continue to grow, even if I get hit by a bus tomorrow. The aura of inevitability has set in.

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I am sorry to say, if you expect me to produce more than I am already producing, you will probably be disappointed. I've already contributed more free code in the past year than probably most people on this board. (And not finished yet...) But there is only so much I can do.

However, there is good news:  Others ARE popping up and taking on these sorts of projects. OT clients are being meddled with, businesses are starting to pop up, etc. So while I can't do it all myself, the open source community is nevertheless beginning to step in. That's the way it always works: some people get in faster than others. Bitcoin was the same way. But if the technology is good, it WILL get integrated where it adds value, and that's where the potential benefit lies for all of you out there.

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OT is probably more comparable to something like OpenSSL, than to something like Google Wave. Asking for an "OT GUI" (although I have paid out of my own pocket to produce the one linked above) is like asking for an "OpenSSL GUI". OpenSSL is more of a library than an application -- and in fact it is used in thousands of different applications. OT is the same way. Each OT application will be entirely different than the others, because the range of uses, similar to OpenSSL, is so wide-open.

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One more thing: My primary purpose in writing OT was purely moral. I already have a form of success in life and I do not work in any technical field. This is a side project I made because I had a very clear and powerful vision of what it needed to be, and because I watched over ten years pass by, where no one else was writing it. I wanted to see it exist, and to see it go into the world to make its mark, and to spread the concepts like a mental virus--like a meme, basically with an experimental, reference implementation, and I already feel as if I have been successful at my goal.

I hope you find the links above useful; I encourage you to read the other articles on my wiki as well, as I've been pretty comprehensive about describing all the pieces and their operation. Perhaps you will find your calling  :-)

-FT



 

OT seems to be a very sophisticated barter system. Is there a currency relative market value assigned to each transaction? Would it be possible to analyze the variance of anonymously reported types of trades (i.e. silver for tokens in terms of BTC or RMB) like a ticker?

yep, please make a new thread a leaving this on topic, maybe you hit the wrong button when posting it ?

I edited the post. I did press the wrong button. It should have been quote, not reply.  :D

lol, i was trying to tell that to fellowtraveler, sorry. I just realized the forum got little screwed up today with lots of cross posts

FYI, I only posted here to correct misconceptions, in reply to existing discussion in this thread re: Open-Transactions.

(Scroll up. See?)

patches are out: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24784.msg622677#msg622677

Well maybe you are trolling me, but I'll go ahead and say it again:

You people, here in this thread, were talking about Open-Transactions first, before I got here.  (That's why I came to this thread, to respond.)

That's why I said "Scroll up" -- so you would realize that people on this thread were already talking about it before I arrived.

I only showed up later -- to respond to what you guys were saying, and clear up any misconceptions.

(Which I still feel as if I am doing...)

Importing a private key into one wallet doesn't prevent you from importing it into another. You can start with a blank wallet (make a second -datadir or a Bitcoin install on a second PC or virtual machine), import just the one key and send them all. The main wallet where you have multiple addresses will reflect the updated balance instantly if you leave it running, or after the transaction's block is downloaded the next time you start it.

Is there any Javascript available that can generate a tx? All client-side of course. The result could then be sent to a relay server.

My Wallet can do this (offline or online). 0.005 - 0.01 BTC fee per tx.

https://i.imgur.com/YxJ5l.png