Bitcoin Forum

We are seeing more and more 3rd party Slot providers being dropped by casinos over some sort of irregularities.. Stake.com removed all YGGDRASIL games and I also think iSoftbet games from their platform. So when Eddie (co-owner) was asked about this, he just commented that there were some irregularities.. so they removed it.

Try to Google anything about that and you will not find anything, because the industry keep their secrets. My question is.... can we trust these 3rd party Slot providers? Who are auditing their games and who are checking if the advertised RTP are being configured on their servers?

Let's discuss....  ???

Trust is what makes us still play in the casino. The only time we can’t trust this 3rd party slot provider is when they show irregularities but being doubtful to them without any valid reason will just make our gambling experience full of doubts.

Like what Stake did. The only thing we can do is trust the casino that accepts this 3rd party slot provider since they are the one who review and audit this games to ensure the safety of their customer. For me I can still trust some of the slot provider that has good track of record for providing a quality slot game.

Maybe there are just some games that are not making money for the casinos and perhaps even losing money because of it. That can be a valid thing to remove the slot providers and it's within their discretion for sure.

Was it removed from other trustworthy sites as well?

The whole casino industry is using third party slot providers except when some are becoming big then they are developing their own slots. For a starter casino developing in-house games / slots are too expensive and easier for relaying to others. I don't think the demand is not going down any time soon.

About trust and things? The gambling industry is doing business. A piece of software is easy to manipulate especially when it is not open source. So no matter if that is an in-house slot from a highly trusted casino or third party integration, you always have the chance to lose big money and become a victim of manipulation.

That's why I prefer only sports betting and not gambling or casinos. It's much more difficult to rig a sports match rather than a casino game that already has a casino edge.
About slot games, I never really prefer them or enjoy them as it's bare luck or I would say you are more likely to lose in slots as compared to roullete.

As per the owner statement, It’s about irregularities which means something is wrong with the game itself.


YGGDRASIL slot provider is not that popular. I rarely see this slot games on other casino that I play as featured slot games. I browse the list of provider on Duelbits and Bitcasino but this YGGDRASIL provider is not available. Only selected reputable casino adds this provider. Actually, Only Stake is the only reputable casino I know that list this provider.

That is true. Sports betting is live and there is no way someone can manipulate the game. The outcome from the match is what you get from the bet. Even all those scam accusations are from the casinos. I have not seen sports betting sites have been accused of scamming. Even if happened it is rare. The way slot games are even developed is not favorable. Casinos use 3rd party and anything 3rd party can not be trusted because they are also looking for there profit apart from the MD of the industry.

It would be nice if some industry expert or casino operator can come into this thread and clear up some of the questions. We know the iGaming licenses like Curaçao regulate the gambling requirements for their license, but do they regulate the game providers?

I know Hacksaw gaming is authorized by the Gambling Supervisory Commission of the Isle of Man as a Software Supply Licensee, so there are some kind of oversight.... but to what degree are they testing the RTP and the software?

Players are not playing in a casino because of these third party slot providers, they are playing these slots because players are comfortable with the gambling platform.  I believe the casino platform itself may conduct audit on the slot game providers or they can ask third party auditors.

There is nothing a player can do but trust the casino that implement the third party slot providers.  If there is irregularities then the casino will find it just like what @OP stated when Eddie of stake.com removes  Yggdrassil and iSoftbet from their platform.  It is also possible that these slot provider bring losses to the platform due to irregularities that favors players.

that is actually true, the casino's reputation first before their 3rd party providers. now, it is the task of the casino to know about the games they are deploying within their platform. because it is their reputation on the line, whatever comes out may affect their image.
this is why they know what comes with it before they include them in their list of games. definitely, the slot providers will give the metrics to the casino and it is the casino's auditor will be the one who will verify if the info given is true or not.

We as gamblers, should trust third-party slot providers, but the casino must check for irregularities from the provider. And if indeed the suspicion turns out to be clear that a 3rd party Slot provider is up to something bad, the casinos could simply remove it from their play roster. We won't know anything or can't find information about this unless we ask the provider directly, but I'm sure they won't want to say it.

Maybe the regulator will audit their games or other parties periodically check it, but we know that it's all easy to do. So it's better for us just to leave it to the casino to take care of it while we only need to play gambling.

Supposedly the countries in which gambling is deemed legal should have a specific agency to deal with these issues and make sure that any company registered under their jurisdiction is not cheating their customers, so if a third party provider is showing signs of irregularities then it is the job of that agency to see what is happening and take the necessary steps to stop this from happening and apply the necessary sanctions, however this is the ideal and as we know there is a lot of corruption everywhere, so it would not surprise me if some slot providers could get away with some cheating and this only stopped once the casinos themselves discovered what was going on.

I believe it is better that casino's drop these third party slot providers if they suspect irregularities with them before these third party slot providers pull them down and spoil their business name that they have fought so hard to build up to the reputable stage that it is. These casino's understand the importance of a good name in business and the need to protect it. It is the right call dropping them especially to make other 3rd party slot providers sit up and do better.

Most of the casinos are using a 3rd party for their games and it has been a practice for years now. You can trust them as long as the site you are playing is ok since if there’s an issue with their provider, the site will be more responsible for that. Some parties are auditing them for sure as they have to continue practicing their fairness, if you see some issues with them better to raise it to the support and see if they can solve that problem.

this issue of the license of curacao is somewhat comical, let's see that in a scenario where the casino is a scam, even when many people report cases of scam to the license provider which in this case is curacao, I have never seen any intervention by curacao in the sense of punishing the casino, so we all ask ourselves: did curacao ever carry out an inspection in any casino? has anyone here heard that curacao inspected a casino and found irregularities? I never heard. so why do casinos ask for KYC if curacao never even inspects the casino to see if the casino complies with the rules?

there is no way for ordinary people to know if all games are demonstrably fair, that's why I prefer sports betting, it saves me a lot of headache, for me to win I depend on myself when I make a bet, whereas in games where they depend on of luck, in addition to luck, the person must also pray that the game is demonstrably fair. as in games that depend on luck, even if they were not rigged, the person at the end of the day will still lose everything, so it doesn't matter if the game was rigged or not, most people have already put it in their heads that gambling is not they are to make money and they are right. even if the game is the fairest, what will change is just that people won't lose as fast, but at the end of the day they will lose everything anyway

I would say that it depends on each one of us, if we trust the providers or instead going fully completely provably fair games. In my case I feel more than satisfied to play on Stake's original games, their dices, plinko and crash,so I mostly stay first party.

There was one occasion I also spent some afternoons on Freebitcoin, where they also have provably fair Hi-lo as far as I can recall.

If someone loves an specific game/slot which is third party, it is up to them whether to trust or not. Let the company reputation to speak for themselves.

I guess we can't really know if we trust these 3rd party slot providers, I mean I have a feeling that the majority of gamblers that play slots trust the slot provider because the gambling site he/she trust uses it.

to be honest this would be the best thing that would happen in this thread, someone with an insight on the subject.

Whether I trust 3rd party slots providers or not is out of the question.  I trust the platform where I am playing so I don't think about the 3rd party slot providers.  As far as I am concerned, I never asked about the reputation of the 3rd party providers since it is given that when a gambler trusts a gambling platform, it trusts everything in it.  Besides, reputable casinos make sure that the third-party slots providers they implement are fully audited and are clear of any problem that they may bring to the players.

Unfortunately, slot guns have no other option but  to trust the game provider. The good thing is that most of those game providers are being audited by well known, trusted and, most importantly, independent auditors. However, this remains a formality and doesn't guarantee the provider will remain fair.
What we can do as gamblers is to play only games from reputable providers on reputable casinos. In this case even if the game provider goes rogue the casino will delist it if they notice any irregularities as what happened with Stake and YGGDRASIL.

My thoughts though as there could be only a few reasons that account to unspecified irregularities which is by far a decorative statement of what could have really gone wrong. That doesn't mean you can't trust them but, should you find something untrustworthy about a casino, you could check out other sites and we've got a host of them running signatures on the forum.

Trust is one reason why we play and as such, its important that you trust your to get fair play, your wins would be paid and your detail protected for those that have them KYC submitted. Let's be safe about our gambling and what casino we choose to bet with.

No, you can't trust a business model that is exploitative for profit by nature under any circumstance. This does not just apply for slot providers, it goes for the casinos themselves as well. You don't know if the casion is truly fair, even if they allow you to verify rolls with their own provably fair system. Ones without it, even more so should not be trusted. Topics have been posted about rigged live casino games, they can't be trusted either. Even if the site you are playing on is seemingly fair, you are at risk of their imposition of the terms of service to screw you anyway.

In the world of gambling, trust should not exist. If you want to genuinely gamble for entertainment, go to a brick and mortar casino. Or, use decentralized games built on smart contracts and web3. They are your best chance of having a fair chance at winning.

The question is you already answer it yourself. But, I don't why the casino still use it today if don't have regulations. That possible is profit, Maybe the casino will get more profit if uses irregulation provider, and the user doesn't have to complain about it also, so they match each other. About trust, when we talk about that, of course, will get many answers pro and contra. it becomes each other's perspective, Long time ago, I used to enjoy playing games without any license or regulation, it's fine for me. In this case, if you enjoy it and don't have a problem with that, then you was fine.

If verifying fairness is your main issue then how can you verify games brick and mortar games as probably fair if you can’t determine what’s inside the slot machine? Do you have any method that will support your suggestion or you will use the casino license to operate which is same case with online casino.

I wonder what will be the benefits of a reputable online casino operating for more than 5 years without a confirmed bad issue on rigging their games while they can always win due to the house edge?

That's the beauty of stakes.com I can say that they are transparent and they value their gamblers on their gambling platform. So it's no wonder that they've been here for a few years and it's still operating and has a large community.

        So if a casino has any providers on their platform they should be making sure it doesn't cause any problems in the future to their players who will be the ones to blame in the end. So it's only right to remove if there are irregularities being done that will affect their casino platform.

I found one on Reddit discussing about this irregularity that happened to him. But the date is way back in 2022.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Stake/comments/wnpk6g/yggdrasil_fraud/

I believe Stake.com tested this first. If not, there may be a lot of complaints that were submitted to them so they just have to remove it before it affects more slot players.
Can we trust them? This should be initially the job of those gambling sites that will absorb their games. Test it first before they put it in the market/services. They should not allow any third-party applications that are prone to incidents like what happened in the example above. Now, if we see some faults, we could always contact support and I hope they will clear their name by paying the appropriate amount as long as there are proof that the player won the game.
As gamblers, I don't think we are capable of detecting who does the audits but we put our trust in reputable casino sites to do their job and keep their clean reputation in the process.

As you've said, it's up to the gamblers to trust them at their own risk. If it doesn't fit the criteria then we can always avoid them similar to how other gamblers would stick to playing on low-edge casino games.

Maybe it's because they thought having more games would give more success to their casino and it's one more reason to play in their casino knowing they have all the games and more when compared to their competitors.

I mean, we(or you) might just be overreacting about stuff like this. it isn't that odd for businesses to suddenly cut the services they bought from other companies due to reasons like cheating or illegal/wrong RTP and stuff like that. It might just be because they're preparing their own set that would conflict with said games or the games simply performed underwhelmingly compared to the money they prepared.

Now I may be looking at this a bit too optimistically, but in the end, we can't really know since we know nothing. Honestly speaking most cases of us choosing a games is just us trusting the provider, so it's really up to our own judgement.

When I play slot gambling I trust the site that I use, so whether I use a 3rd party slot provider or not, as long as playing doesn't occur problems and can still be relied on then trust will appear by itself.

If a casino has a good and trusted reputation, they will definitely also use a trusted and tested 3rd party provider, because this affects the reputation of the casino itself, making it impossible for them to use a provider that is not good.

There are a lot of third-party providers right there instead of getting their own casino its ideal to make a partnered with different gambling this makes their outsource more growth because they have already a games and one of the casinos need is their services, these thing is all about the provider and the casinos contract if there's something didn't commit on it between those two its on their contract you don't need get to know that's how they earn. I keep trusting those because at the end its on the responsibility of the gambling casino because they issue a third party that's why most of the time you visit with the concern its direct with the casino and not into the providers.

I think this can be checked by ourselves when we play a certain game or some certain slots from a provider we can see the patterns and compare them to very well known providers.For me a very well known if not the most well known of all is Pragmatic Play and you will find very few persons who play slots to talk badly about them,they are also one of the providers which give more often than any other provider the max win in quite a few of their slots with Gate of Olympus being the one giving that x5000 max win more often than any other slot.Based on this I don't know about Yggdrasil as I never played any slots from them but I know and trust Pragmatic Play so in the end it is a personal choice whom we trust or not.

I have been working with various slot providers over the past few years and I think that they are the only ones that you can actually trust. All the reputable providers are real companies with public data behind them, with most of them being on the stock market as well (just check Evolution, the owners of NetEnt and others: https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/EVO:SS (https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/EVO:SS) ) Personally I would stay away from unlicensed casinos that offer their own games outside of the regular landscape, no one regulates them, you have no clue if they are fair or not or what their plan is.

Regarding the drop of certain slot providers from casinos, there are several reasons that might happen, but in most high-profile cases it's the provider who initiates the drop (e.g. the casino didn't meet the traffic requirement, doesn't feature a certain license, lost a certain payment provider or just did something scammy or operated on a market they shouldn't be operating).

Yes those auditors are reliable, I recommend going deep into the information about who is responsible for the casino games audit, make sure it's a good company, although it might not be necessary for many but it's good for those who want to make sure that the games those online gaming platforms provide for gamblers are proven to be legit and fair enough, sometimes we can't even explain how we keep losing games when gambling online and this might be something to look out for.

There might be more to the reasons why online casinos are removing many slot games but I am guessing maybe those games that are removed are those that are benefiting gamblers more than the house, think about it, if those games are fetching the house more money they will never remove them.

I believe that casino owners are more greedy than we think, they want 90 percent winnings on the house and 20 percent winnings for the gamblers, this is the truth.

Ok, so from what I have read so far :

YGGDRASIL had some issues with games "freezing" when large wins are hit.  ::) I do not know if this was a regular occurrence or if it was something that happens now and again.  ::)

It also might have been that the 3rd party Slot provider had some unfair requirements and that the casino mentioned did not want to adhere to it. So there are always two sides to a story... right?

This is bullshit and not true at all :D Especially not on markets like the UK or operators on the MGA license.

And there is no luck in this, it's a game of chance and it's there for entertainment, most reputable operators make that obvious.

Even for 3rd party Slots there are licences and regulations, so if they have all of that then I don't see the problem. Before trying new casinos always check for that.

Stake and Yggdrasil are in partnership, so if one party feels the service isn't good enough, they can terminate their partnership.
If Yggdrasil is a scam, they will lose all their licenses, and I don't hear that news... So it's only related to Stake x Yggdrasil. When I search about it, the "maintenance" and "freezing" result comes up, so it might be the case.

Anyway, trust in 3rd party provider is subjective, and people will have different opinions about it. For me, I trust them modestly, with only a fraction of my income that I can afford to lose. It goes for casinos and provably fair games as well, I've never deposited big.

I just think that if Stake.com removed all YGGDRASIL games from their casino, it would be games from that provider that would not interest many gamblers and only a few people would play them. Maybe all of this is because the game revenue from that provider is not profitable for Stake so they decide it for a while.

But Eddie has confirmed that there are some irregularities and maybe they are investigating first to find out the truth.

Now, for your question, I think we can only trust casinos and game providers. And even if we can check the RTP properly and find something wrong, the casino should still check it before deciding to remove it or keep using it in their casino.

Yes, we get that trust from what they show us so I personally trust third parties as providers, in other words what stake.com does they show independent identification as a third party gambling platform and directly audit all game servers in the ecosystem they.
This discussion makes me doubt other third parties who are still using the same game, will this news put pressure on other third party gambling platforms, should they also delete or re-audit games from YGGDRASIL and iSoftbet? because even though this is an irregularity found by Stake.com, we don't know their reasons behind the irregularities they found.

We don't know exactly what irregularities they found, but if they have the reason to remove it, then it means it is not good for their business.
This is why casinos have their own department when it comes to audit, taking charge on the games they are offering to their players.
Better catch them early rather than being screwed big time later on. Also, it can potentially jeopardize their business if they failed to see possible source of complaint from their users.
That's the good thing also if the casino is earning good income, they can truly allot funds for security, trusted auditors and others.
And why we also trust reputable and top casinos, because they are doing their job to serve best their clients.

Doing business is a normal thing enterprises do but their interest is always paramount which we all know so they can go to any extent to protect it without thinking what it would cost them as long as they have a way to cover their shaddy deal that is ok for them. So manipulation of softwares at their own benefit to the detriment of their players is not a thing of worry to them as they find and derive pleasure in doing such. This makes me believe that games lost by bettors or gamblers are not just a lose game but a manipulative one from casinos as a result of their position in setting up the game for the player, manipulating game softwares and doing everything necessary to make sure they gain at all costs.

Spend time on chat rooms of these casinos and you'll probably see some users demanding the owners to add a specific third party slots provider so that must mean they find them as trustworthy. Does that mean we should too? I don't really know since this matter is based mostly on personal experiences. If you have no issue with relying on other person's feedback then you can trust based on their judgement.

Well, In my honest opinion, since we possibly do not have some personal ways of contacting the owners of the third party slot games, or even join and engage with their community, trusting them is not ours to do, but the casinos that list their games for we the users of the casino to play.

Trusting the providers of slot games is more a duty for the casinos, than it is for we the users, it is the casinos job to make sure the games listed on their platform are from trusted developers, simply because, if anything goes wrong, maybe like a player lost money unjustly, it is the casino will be held responsible even if the lost money is the game provider's fault, the casino will still have to see that the issue is resolved amicably for the sake of their reputation.

I remember there were accusations to casinos which casinos are trying to ask the 3rd party game provider to look at how users are trying to find ways to win. Casinos suspects there are sort of glitches that took advantage of.

Since Stake remove them, I guess Stake find them unreliable or doesn't trust them too.

I play 3rd party slots and live games... I guess that means I trust them, even when I lose. And I lose, and I win... depending on the period. I have been lucky in the past couple of days. :)

If you don't trust them, don't play them. "Egyptian Adventure, Sword, Princess" is BC.game originals, Bitsler has two in-house slots as I remember (didn't play there for a long time), anyway when it comes to BC Originals you can verify bets. I have zillion bets on these slots, and I didn't see any difference when it comes to the "generosity" of RTP! I had some nice hits, but I had some great losses as well... and I never hit that max payout on Egyptian, not even close... my highest is a little over x1k, a long time ago.

PS. Slots are good for avoiding, but if you decide to play slots be ready for long streaks of dead spins and bonuses that don't give anything. I can repeat myself again (similar words in my previous comment), it can be auto mode, manual spinning, buying bonuses... if it's not a lucky day it's just not! We can push but we will just bury ourselves even deeper! Been there, done that... but I also know how good it feels to win something big with the last bets! Gambling excitements... 

That really depends on the third party. If they have been around for a long time and have been used by well known, old and trusted online gambling casinos, then I do not mind trusting the third party slot providers. However the ones who can only get a partnership with new and sketchy casinos that nobody wants to play on? Those I actively try to avoid, if possible at all.

I have no idea if they are audited or even subjected to strict regulations but I imagine there should be regulations for them as well. I mean the casino itself is heavily regulated, and by proxy it needs to have proof that the third party provider is trustworthy, otherwise the casino can get into hot water (legal trouble) really fast.

If customers keep asking the team to add a particular game to the list they have then that do not means that the third party game s are good and trustworthy. These are just people's opinion and if the team think that it could tarnish there name at the end, then they have teb privilege to remove any third party games that would hurt the trustworthy of the casinos so they people would not later come back to hunt the casino of having scam slot providers on there casino. This is business and everyone needs to be careful.

Shadowy business realms! Scandals and sordid deals flood the headlines, and gambling? No exception. Casinos – notorious for guarding their profits like a sacred code, even tweaking software, rigging games.

Is every bettor's defeat truly a casino's sinister ploy? Sure, some are. But bad luck, lousy decisions? They happen too, folks!

3rd party slot games are similar to normal slot games but they are not fully trusted as they may use some exceptional sources which may cause a gambler to lose again and again. Slot games are already based on luck and risky but 3rd party games are much more risky. So 3rd party slot games can never be completely reliable. But not all of them can be said to be unreliable. many 3rd party providers do real business. But before choosing any one should research so well

Sure, I can understand that, but that approach only works if we gamble in casinos which take their reputation very seriously beyond the fact the have liquidity and pay their winners, so they bother to check whatever their providers send to them. Some third party games are very visually attractive and well-done, but it would be nice if those third party providers also offered some trust-less/provably fair mechanism so gamblers could verify their plays.

That is what fair gambling is mostly about and specially when we use a trust-less asset as Bitcoin to wager, as well.

Stake has to protect its platform and protect its players as well They have a high standard being the number one gambling platform in the industry, they have to keep with what's best for its community so if they decide to take down
3rd party game provider game There's a compelling reason to do this, they have a team that monitors their third-party providers to protect their interest and satisfy their players.
I have seen a lot of complaints about third-party providers, and gambling platforms like Stake are up to date on this.

     -  Maybe it's just losing here if the gambler knows how to choose a good cryptocurrency casino gambling. Because if you just put money in without doing any research in the casino gambling, chances are high that you will have problems in the end.

Anyone who owns a business, when he sees that there are bugs, of course he will not allow more bugs that can destroy the business that gives him profit, so what to do is to get rid of it as soon as possible.

I agree 3rd party slot providers are hard to trust in casinos they are scams most of the time safety is of utmost importance in gambling. Our review includes checking the site's gambling permissions and what kind of security protocols they have in place to ensure player information security. Also look for justification certificates issued by third-party, independent auditing agencies, which further enhance security measures.

Asking such question is just like asking can we trust a crypto casino?

Obviously the answer is the old and reputable casino can be trusted because it's unlikely the casino will turn become scam, not like a small casino where the casino either scam or get abandon by the owner.

If gambler want to prevent of getting scammed during gamble on third party slot providers, just pick either Pragmatic Play or Play n'Go.

While it's obvious they manipulation the piece of software when you are using it but there is another thing which is the unlimited supply of money that they have.

A gambler never have an unlimite supply of money. When he is winning he is happy and wants to win more. You can not win all the time. Luck is a thing and it works for everyone. When you are lucky you are winning your chances and making profits but when the luck is not with you, you are losing. You try to chase your loss but then run out of your budget. Stop it for the day. You continue the cycle and in every cycle you are stopping when you are running out of your budget. Ultimately gambling industry is making money from it.

If your mindset was like in a session you will lose x amount or win y amount before you end the session. Have the numbers realistic. Whichever reach first stop the session. So if you lose x then stop the session. Come back for the next session with your scheduled time like you do your job. If you are lucky to reach y then also stop the session without becoming greedy for the next penny.

Those are some of the most well known providers but Relax Gaming and No Limit City are in the same league when it comes to trusting third party slot providers and as you said most reputable casinos have no real reason to cheat on players by changing the RTP from those providers who offer such thing,namely I know only Play n Go so far.The reason is simple,there is the house edge in place which is exactly there to make the casino be in profit in the long run and the more people playing in such reputable casinos the better for them,so it is a personal choice where to trust these providers or not.

In the end, I still gamble on Play'n'Go, but if I get positive results from the games, I keep gambling on that website for longer. My winning rounds are what are most important to me, that's why people leave one gambling platform for another, so the winning streaks are all that matters. When you win you will always want to play more but doing so you can get addicted too, that's why I don't focus too much on gambling, either I am winning or losing I just look at things as if I am day trading.

.

I can't play Pragmatic without VPN  in 95% of casinos around, when it comes to Play'n'Go it's 50-50. But that is a different story I guess... what I wanted to say is that there are many other "more than good" providers around, with awesome slot games. BetSoft, Red Tiger, Push, and Yggdrasil are just some of the providers I play since ever. Recently I started playing Evoplay and ELK, they have some slots that look amazing... the gameplay, colors, and bonus rounds are very interesting.

I guess the only concern could be when a really big win happens (like huge, over $10k, maybe $100k), I would take a few screenshots and maybe a video (if possible) if there is a problem with the payment after that, which happened...

Nothing we can do for this case if we want to play the games except trust the provider of the game.
Coming up to audit the games, I dont think there is other party who can audit the games by 3rd party providers except themselves and I think they keep it as a private thing.
There is no other option for us as gambler, whether to trust them and play the game or simply leave them if we feel there is something wrong.

It simply means THEY trust those third party slots providers. There is no other reason why they would ask a game to be added in the first place.

Those are not just people's opinions. Those are coming from real casino players. It's a given that owners will still have to review those games before deciding to add but requests from players like that are not something that the casino should ignore. There are gamblers that only plays in a casino if they see their favorite slots provider there.

If you're really skepticism with third party slot providers, then you should only gamble on original games which created by the casino.

Casinos which have many selections of original games are Freebitco.in, Stake, Bitsler and Jackbit, just choose the one that make you more comfortable. Although those games will not give you a huge multipliers, but it's still a lucky based games where you only need to click spin.

Depends but what is actually the need to do so? Why would it be more preferred than betting directly? What would give you more assurance? Problem only with fraudalent gambling platforms are rigged machines wherein you can easily avoid especially once you noticed winning is close to zero percent. weSlot providers are a biased to some players but if it is just assurance for sure there are ways to minimize the risk of encountering bad casinos. One is simply checking the site's credibility which can be done in many ways as well; asking players or checking its popularity in this industry. So I won't really suggest third party slot providers. Also, third party provider would get commission by providing their service, so...

Technically, I think it should be: "Can these slot providers be trusted by the casino operators?" If ever the deal between them is the % of the profit from the slot, which means, if the provider wants to potentially earn more, then they might rig the slot without the casino owner and us knowing unless we are knowledgeable of verifying the fairness of each bet.
On the other hand, if no shady activities were done, then we should assume that there were just technical difficulties, probably bugs, that need to be taken care of before re-launching. After all, the gambling industry is dominated by 3rd party providers. So I believe that we can definitely trust them, furthermore, I think logs are existing so we can check how everything was configured. I just do not know if it is available for the public (as it should be so thus to provide transparency).

There are still number of trusted provider games that continuously gain the trust of many players. They are providing fair games which maintain the trust of gamblers. However, we can't deny the fact that suspicious providers exist and they obviously have irregularities when it comes to results. If we notice suspicious occurrences on these provider games, we better switch to casino games than risk them. We still have lots of good choices than risking our funds on untrusted providers. We just have to be skeptical and keen observers when playing.

The reason why casinos might drop games from specific game providers could be anything, there might even be some argument between the two which might have caused that to happen, but whatever the reason is, there is basically no way to find out if they are actually providing the advertised RTPs or not unless they are being audited by auditing services.

The best way to tackle that is probably to only play games from the most famous and trusted game providers like Pragmatic Plays which also have the most interesting and engaging games and are most probably the trusted providers in the industry.

Sometimes, this question pops up in my mind. Can the 3rd party slot provider be trusted? Unfortunately, I don't have a correct answer to your question. moreover, I tend to prefer betting on sports over slot games. However, that doesn't mean I don't play slot games. well, when we refer to casinos we trust, especially casinos that have a trustworthy reputation. automatically, making us believe playing at our favorite casino. even so, because I'm not a slot addict, we often ignore things like this and don't really mind. it's just that referring to your posts in this thread, and referring to what stake.com is doing, actually makes us even more confident if platforms casino don't hesitate to remove 3rd party slot providers who are allegedly doing irregularities. so, I can only entrust cases like this to related casinos. in particular, our favorite casino.

Gambling itself is at the side of the gambling sites, while third parties too make money as it is providing the gambling sites the games that the gambling sites are provide their customers. I do not see any reason not to trust thrid party game providers, they are not even the gambling site because where they are making money from is the games that they are providing.

You're again playing on a 3rd party provider, probably a mix of them (platform + various bets/odds providers like Betradar).

Do players have a choice? Either you agree to the conditions provided and play without knowing anything about the audit of games and customizability RTP, or - the exit out is in that direction.

In my opinion, no one asks the players anything whether they like it or not, but to demand and limit - this is done easily.


It turns out funny that the gamblers must trust the casino, but the casino doesn't trust its players and requires KYC verification. :) Not very equal rights are obtained, is it?

While you are not completely wrong. I would say that it is not the same to trust slots provided by third parties than trusting odds or services intended for sport betting. After all, you can gamble on slots during long sessions and during days and days and you would not be sure whether the game is rigged against you or not. That is main topic of the thread.

On the other hand, when you bet on sports, it is very unlikely to suffer from the same thing, since the results do not depend on the provider of the book and those are of public knowledge for everyone who watches the matches, so the honest outcome it cannot be hidden from the bettor.  ;)

If there are no ways to verify their claims, You don't know what they are doing behind the scene. You are exclusively relying on trust. That's all. I don't know if there is a specific company that audits slot providers' games. If any company does that, you may know by this time. I did a Google search and found https://luisvilanova.es/ (https://luisvilanova.es/). They have published a report after ISS and ISMS Audit, which can be found here https://luisvilanova.es/iss-audit-and-isms-audit-in-betting-slots-in-virtual-casinos/?lang=en (https://luisvilanova.es/iss-audit-and-isms-audit-in-betting-slots-in-virtual-casinos/?lang=en) I found a bunch of more articles that refer to audit. But those are bullshit with a bunch of irrelevant spam.

I'm not sure about all of them, but some game providers allow gambling directly on their games through their websites, like Pragmatic Plays games can be played directly from their website (https://www.pragmaticplay.com/en/) where you can create an account, make a deposit and play the games that you like, you may even play for free with only credit and no money. Some game providers including Pragmatic Play are actually trusted and have been around for a pretty long time.

Though you can't say that there is no reason not to trust third-party game providers, it can be said that we basically have no choice. You can barely find a casino that provides slots that are originally created by them.

I think we all-agree

Whether you trust them or not, you must trust them if playing their games. If you think, their game are shady or their have something fishy then you should skip that. However, I want to share a unique experience.

I read some cases, CASINO refuse to pay jackpot user because they think have some glitch or cheating. However, the "Provider" game confirm the wining is legit and they register to bitcointalk as well to inform the case. Due, the problem are with the casino and the provider think the casino want to frame the provider with some false allegation. You want to know what the provider did? they stop the service with the casino due of this.

Based on that case, provider is not always on casino side.

Correct. I’m playing slot because I like playing their games which I don’t have a choice than to trust them because there’s no way for me to play the slot in different version which we can verify the fairness. It’s enough for me to see that many players are using it because that’s when the trust built to make other user confidence on playing the slot.

I think this trust discussion on slot provider is long overdue because this slot provider exist for many years and it’s too late now to not trust them because they are already part of the crypto casino for a long time. Questioning their credibility now will not gonna change the fact that they are already being trusted by the majority of online casino users.

I believe one of the major reasons why a gambling platform will drop a third party slot providers is because the casino had found that the games of that slot provider have glitches than can be exploited by players that can lead to the losses of the casino.  Other than that, it is also possible that the games by the third party casino does not attract interest enough player and having them around only waste the resources of a casino.


Well, it is one of the solutions, but I think it is better to choose reputable casino than to choose specific 3rd party slot providers because we neve know when these unreputable casinos modify the system of the casino in order to gain advantage over the player.

Are there any options other than 3rd party slot providers? I haven't seen any famous casino with its own slot company, all of them partner with lots of different slot providers for more options and to meet the requirements of their users.
To be honest, RTP is so low on slots, I don't really know why someone plays them with a hope of win. If you google the RPT of slot games, it literally tells you that from every 10 dollar you bet, I'm gonna take 1 dollar and after that you guys still hope that you will get returns from it?
Btw slots are regulated. In any case, they don't really need to cheat.

Well at least we can trust that some casinos like stake are monitoring those irregularities. It could be that slot providers will need to be audited more closely in the future and those new providers will be under a microscope for a while. I personally don't understand why it would be worth risk to them as reputation is everything and this only drives monopoly to bigger slot providers so it will be hard for new legit providers to entry to markets.

Casinos should be more responsible for this as they are the one choosing the providers on their site and its not the problem of a gambler, they should solve that internally and let the gambler get his reward. Too bad if you are being trap on this situation, anyway I agree that we should trust them as we play their games, there’s also a big factor here on which site you are playing, a reputable site will always have a good gaming provider.

In the first place, what choice do we have? And I don't think "trust" should be the keyword here.

If these game providers are still listed on gambling sites, especially popular ones, we will still play their games no matter what especially for those slot bettors who already experienced winning decently at those slots. It's already a clear thing that bettors rely on the status of the gambling site itself, and not on the game providers inside the platform.

Trust is subjective but as long as these game providers are present on the gambling site, many users will still play their slots games even without knowing the technical side of how fair results are generated, RTPs, and something along those lines.

^Trust + provably fair system would be the answer.
When it comes to trusting third-party slot providers in online casinos, consider having your own research and choosing a reputable casino that has been licensed and regulated by a reputable authority. For me, it should be the RTP is typically calculated based on a theoretical simulation that assumes a number of spins. This means that the actual RTP that a player experiences over a smaller number of spins may differ from the theoretical RTP, and there may be variance in the short term.

Not until these slot providers reportedly do some irregularities, that's the only time we shouldn't trust them. We will never know if these providers will be crappy providers in the future. Besides, if these providers really intend to do some irregularities, I think the gambling site itself will have the advantages as losses will be part of the site's overall revenue and the cost is even less than the site is spending to pay that said providers.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone knows if there's already a case of a shitty activity done by a popular slot provider in the past and the gambling site involved is also popular? Is that slot provider already in operation and accepted by most gambling sites?

The question is general and not only for crypto-gambling sites.

      -  Third party slot providers can be trusted as long as they are doing well and comply with the policy of a casino, why not?

A casino only removes a 3rd party provider from a slot if they see that their platform can be affected due to an issue that a slot provider can create. And this is normal for a casino platform so they can maintain the good reputation they have.

You're very correct, we have to trust the casino we're using and believe they won't scam us. If they believe that a 3rd party slot providers are the best option then we have to trust them and make use of the site that way.

If the slots 3rd party provider doesn't scam anyone then we have to trust them. All that matters are my profits that I'm making, I don't really care how the casino is been operated, since I'm not getting scammed.

Also provided I'm not getting any discomfort and so are the other customers of the casino aren't getting any discomfort as well then we have to make use of the casino platform as it is. In the future if things change we stop using the casino.

Recognizing that no one knows what the future holds, we were urged to remain strong and prepared for whatever event might occur. When it comes to online, I've always expected critical losses, failing and repeating, and getting back up for the purpose to fit in the objective of innovation. Slot providers accomplished their fundamental task, however being limited in their civic duty due to inconsistencies is completely understandable. They move in a shady manner, and their movement is highlighted with good features; they readily put limits on them. There is no knowledge of any previous pending proceedings against slot providers or gambling.

Supposedly the casino can handle that itself, and actually it's the backend developer's responsibility if the casino is selective enough to hire an experienced team. The fact is that most game providers and casinos themselves have set up their separate independent audit teams from well-known companies. And again we are led to rely on third parties.

The thing is this.... all the code that are used in third party Slots and games are proprietary software..... they are not using Open source code that can be Peer reviewed or tested by the public.

The licensing authorities most probably, do not test the software to determine if it "legit".... they just govern and regulate the operation of these companies.

How will they know if the code in the software will bypass the output of the Client & server seed and the RNG to display a loss, when it was actually a big win? ....or to freeze the game, when there are a significant win? ...or to display a fake RTP when it is audited and hiding the actual RTP.  ::)

You are right there, we still have the final choice of which game we want to play in a casino. It's also very simple if you don't like third party providers and you have doubts about it, don't play it. So you don't have any problems in the end.
It's just that there are different games from the original, there's boredom to play, but that's still up to you.

Not really. You can't verify the bets you place on those games. And then when you win big, they will start "investigating" how you won big. They won't do it when you lose though.. Most likely they removed those games because they didn't meet the standards and likely wouldn't reveal anything about how their slots work or so on. Why would a casino risk their reputation by using a 3rd party slot that has lots of irregularities?

After all, third-party slot providers will only be added by casinos if they can have a good impact and can also provide benefits for the casino, we as gamblers can only play and choose which one we can trust and can rely on.
If we can trust a casino, indirectly the existing slot providers can also be trusted because it greatly affects reputation so it is impossible to disappoint users.

I agree with your statement because providers who give influence and problems in casinos will definitely be removed soon so we don't have to think too much about whether they can be trusted or not.

Slot provider reputation will not directly reflect casino reputation since most of the slot providers especially the popular one is being added by many casino including scammy casino and reputable casino since they will just add the software of the provider while the casino get a commission on every spin. I suggest that we should do our own due diligence on checking the slot provider before we can trust them.


Casino will only remove the provider once there’s known issue with them not if this provider have issue on other casino. This idea of trusting is invalid if the provider has a problem on other casino while the casino you are using is not updated on the active case on other casino. Remember that there’s a lot of cases being file on all of the slot provider.

But sticking on the popular brand will gonna give you less chance of being scam but still there still a threat because this provider is not open source. They can rig the game whenever they want.

Are there any other solution than trusting these 3rd party slot providers? If there is nothing better than this then we have to manage things as it is, for now. Casinos have every right to remove a game if they believe that something is up, truth is the majority of those games are in good shape and fewer people are complaining about them so it seems things are fine, if not, the complaints will be everywhere by now.

And in the end, he will get bored because there aren't many games like that. Meanwhile, we play them hundreds of times or even thousands of times because we doubt whether the third-party slot provider is fair.

And when that is the case, they will return to playing at casinos that provide third-party slot providers. In the end, they won't mind third parties and play the many gambling games that casinos have provided. So we better not have to think about too complicated things and just enjoy the gambling game by playing lots of slot games.

Well  this is business  and people also want to make money from it and for the third part games that was removed  from stake, there might be possibilities  of stake not making any profits from such games and if they aren't making money and profits from the games, then they should be making losses and no one gets into a business  to make loss.
I don't know if anyone checked Google  to see if these games were removed from other reputable platforms as well but I think I'm not bothered about third parties since the casino  has to do some auditing before putting those games on their platform and since I trust whatever casino i decide to use, I have no reason to be worried over third party games.

I’m pretty sure before these providers are chosen by the platform, they are being audited first for what they offer and checked for any possible irregularities they may have on their system. Third-party auditors of these game providers also exist, so there’s that. As for us users, we can’t really know if the casino or the gaming providers are being straight with us; heck, we can’t even trust the casino’s own game if we start to doubt their third-party game providers too. It is a system built in trust, and something that is hard to completely ignore when questionable stuff starts happening here and there.

If a reputable casino will audit every game from third party provider, Stake will not add these third party provider in the first place lol.

AFAIK Stake have added Yggdrasil and iSoftbet since the few years ago, but they realized something is wrong with these providers in this year. This mean if you're use Stake and you gamble on Yggdrasil's game, you're already get scammed since the games are rigged. This mean you need to check the provider reputation, not only relying to the casino reputation.

Agreed, actually gamblers don't even realize if the third party covers the slot games we can choose because we only choose the ones we think we can get lucky or have fun with the game.
Especially if most gamblers have experienced with a third-party provider that they have won several times in those games, because for sure gamblers will come back to it again and again, I said this because I have experienced it.

Other neglect to check the third party providers reputation since they are confident that such crazy things will not happen since they are playing on a reputable casino. Although this is valid thoughts but still we need to consider the third party provider reputation so that we can rely on that we are in better platform and they will not scam us if we decide to try out their games offered to us.

"Some irregularities", is he trying to say those particular games are not regularly played by gamblers as against what they initially expected before enrolling those games into their casino log.

Am no fan of slots games and there's nothing in gambling I love more than putting my penny on sport betting like football or basketball as their outcome hardly get tampered with and a lot of influence on its results seldom come to play unlike slot games in casinos.  The truth is, if you are having doubt on the trust system of a particular game you can always avoid it, and get on with slot providers you're cool with. Problem solved.

I think that is not the case, when someone say irregularities, it means it does not meet the standard.  It is possible that the slots is giving player way more winnings that brings losses to the platform or it is possible that the slots may give the platform trouble because it does not follow its given terms of performance.


True that but the trust does not put on the slot provider but rather on the platform where the provider is integrated.  A player never thinks of they play the slots because they trust the provider but rather they play on the platform whatever the game it offers because they trust the platform and not the game provider.

Casinos, be it stake or any other casino, reputed or not, do not audit games from game providers. There are other recognized organisations which are supposed to do this task.
Auditing slot games is supposed to be conducted by independent third party organizations which have nothing to do with the casino or the game provider.

     -  Speaking of Reputation, how do we know mate if a 3rd party provider has a good reputation? This is for the information of other gamblers who play immediately on a casino platform here in crypto.

Because even I don't know how to find out, because all I know is the casino itself that includes the 3rd party provider. Because the gambler will not think about whether the game they choose is 3rd party or not in a casino.

You are actually having some point there because it was seldom for someone who would the casino if they are using 3rd party slots provider, not in the case that they will bother doing it especially, if they don't see any major irregularities in the casino. Whether they are using it or not, it won't change the sentiment and our chances of winnings. But of course, it was also our right to know but I would say that it doesn't matter as long as we are using reputable sites for we are trusting them.

3rd party slot providers can be trusted if they are reputable but when we evaluate the best online casinos, we follow an internal site so that we maintain a good level of quality in our work and we believe that the casinos will be good. Even if the casino itself is fair they should take steps to increase security such as having site encryption that makes it difficult for third parties to access protected personal data and information. Slot providers must become trustworthy.

This thread has become a bit of a spam fest, with signature quota posts, those randomly written ones, being thrown left and right.

I just want to clear up some things around the industry and how the regulations work.

#1. A licensed operator (online casino) is made out of several puzzle pieces, one of them are games that are served by the game provider. Operators mostly don't have their own games, it's to complicated to manage, you rather get a gaming provider that is experienced.
#2. The better the license, the more game providers the casino can have. An MGA licensed casino like Betsafe will have 5000+ games available, while a Curacao licensed casino like Coinslotty will only have couple thousand.
#3. Reputable gaming providers can be trusted, I'm talking here about publicly trading companies, Evolution, Tiger, the recently acquired NetEnt, as well as those that are still privately owned, but regulated. It's in no ones interest, business wise, to have a broken slot provider or one that scams players.
#4. Regulators and bodies that test slot machines within the industry, besides the Technical Services Bureau, are the following:
- https://ecogra.org (https://ecogra.org)
- https://gaminglabs.com/ (https://gaminglabs.com/)
- https://itechlabs.com/ (https://itechlabs.com/)

And to close up, slot machines aren't here to give each of the players an additional $100 and a kiss on the forehead, they are entertainment games of chance, you're paying for the experience and the probability of winning big, but you shouldn't gamble what you can't afford to lose.
 

and besides , how can we refrain from Using a casino that has 3rd party provider in slot when there are many of them that has this now and yes they are functional and only few are in bad shape.

        - The casino(specially legit casinos) will only deal to those providers that
                                they believe will impact to their
                                 operation and not to be questionable.

       -While there are some casino that starts being in doubt now
                because of their providers , but only deal  with those
                               legit and you'll be fine .

      -  But you know mate, I also just noticed that most gamblers here in cryptocurrency play mostly slot games. Because I always only go to slot games to buy games.

And also for me because there are many good games here in the slot and I have no idea or think if it is third party or not as long as I enjoy it and maybe I will get lucky. And most of all with the third party because I often win gambling.

Anything can go wrong with third party slot providers because they might not be fully registered giving services that might have some bugs in them which might make more gamblers to make loses as they keep playing on the side. This is why of the reasons why we have to be careful and know what we are doing so that we are not going to lose money unnecessary.

do you know that some people don't verify or don't make a much research before any other thing in gambling and this is the one of the major things that contribute a lot for people been backslide or been losing in some of the gambling sites,

I think that it's gonna be all about searching if you ever know what's the 3rd provider of that casino that you're playing.

But it all still comes from the casino's reputation where you're gambling with and that's gonna set the slot more fun because you know if you're on the good hands or not.

That's why there are gamblers that wouldn't care about such as long as they're on the reputable casino playing slots.

Not just to follow but we must also sign up and play their games and other features to have a better conclusion if the gambling site is really trusted or not. This is the one that we must do, not that we will entirely depend on the gambling review site because many of them are not telling the truth. They can say that the site is scam but the truth is it was legit and they can say that the site is legit but the truth is it wasn't.

Fair gambling site gets a nice a traffic so they will also do their best to improve their site including their security. This is the most important here because once the site got hacked, the customer will panic and will hardly trust the casino anymore.

Yes, you can. It all depends on the owner of the casino. If he does honest work, then the winnings will be big, even more than in licensed slots.

What has the owner of the Casino got to do with the slot providers.?
Casinos are basically like a platform or medium through which we have access to those slot games, it is like a crypto exchange that list different type of coins for us to have access to buy and sell them, the owners of a particular coin can carry out a rug pull, it has nothing to do with the owner(s) of the exchange..

So also does casinos list slot games for we, the gamblers to play, if anything is wrong with the game, it is basically up to the game provider to fix and report to the casino, the casino on its own have little to nothing to do other than informing the game providers of the challenges gambler are having playing their game.

Why would the casino owner interfere here? As far as we know the slot providers control everything here and the casino operates only as a platform. Relying everything on the casino owner will not be convenient for the gambler, because we don't know how honest the casino owner is, so the main concern is whether he will allow the gambler to withdraw if he wins big.