Bitcoin Forum

I've grown a bit tired of all GDP PPP numbers, all the Gini index, and since we are on Btcointalk we should probably focus on Bitcoin prices and how to get your coins (other than gambling our life savings) here is a table on how many days of minimum wage work you have to ...let's say survive to get a coin. This of course is assuming you don't spend a penny, and you survive on god knows what!

There are a few countries missing as their minimum wage is either not set or it's irrelevant since it's so old everybody already earns 10 times more. Also, as a note, when you go over the 10 000 number, that's 27 years!

LE:
Second note, since the data comes from monthly wages in some countries those days include the resting days, so let's say it's the number of days you;re going to spend employed over the minimum wage!

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156

Luxembourg Australia New Zealand Germany United Kingdom Ireland Netherlands France Canada Monaco Belgium San Marino South Korea Israel Austria Slovenia Spain Japan United States of America Andorra Taiwan Malta Lithuania The Bahamas Poland Greece Oman Hong Kong Macau Portugal Saudi Arabia Argentina Barbados Slovakia Czech Republic Romania Estonia Latvia Croatia Palestine Saint Kitts and Nevis Montenegro Hungary Antigua and Barbuda Palau Costa Rica Turkey Bulgaria Belize Ecuador Jordan Lebanon Uruguay Chile Trinidad and Tobago Marshall Islands Bolivia Paraguay Morocco Bosnia and Herzegovina Guatemala Colombia Panama Albania South Africa El Salvador Serbia Turkmenistan Seychelles Gabon Vanuatu Fiji Thailand Mexico Dominica Brazil Peru Ukraine Philippines Equatorial Guinea Malaysia Russia People's Republic of China Dominican Republic Mauritius Indonesia Azerbaijan Honduras Republic of Macedonia Kosovo Saint Vincent and the Grenadines Jamaica Kuwait Cambodia Papua New Guinea Iraq Guyana Tunisia Republic of the Congo Botswana Moldova Armenia Algeria Mongolia Laos Vietnam Comoros Nepal Nicaragua East Timor Chad Pakistan Iran Libya Uzbekistan Haiti Mauritania Lesotho Solomon Islands Nigeria Benin Afghanistan Central African Republic Kazakhstan Ivory Coast Cameroon Togo Burkina Faso Kenya Eswatini Myanmar Senegal India Angola Niger Mali Bhutan Sri Lanka Zambia Sierra Leone Mozambique Ghana Uganda Guinea-Bissau Madagascar Malawi Tajikistan The Gambia Democratic Republic of the Congo Bangladesh Tanzania Kyrgyzstan Syria Cuba Sudan Venezuela

341 345 350 371 405 435 439 451 454 455 456 514 522 556 630 641 661 677 726 735 915 974 996 1,003 1,009 1,018 1,067 1,091 1,098 1,102 1,141 1,223 1,239 1,257 1,261 1,265 1,387 1,543 1,548 1,568 1,579 1,714 1,718 1,733 1,755 1,782 1,823 1,840 1,872 1,982 2,025 2,038 2,052 2,055 2,373 2,632 2,690 2,700 2,740 2,773 2,791 2,823 2,867 2,952 2,983 3,000 3,033 3,193 3,336 3,373 3,380 3,388 3,401 3,528 3,554 3,746 3,807 3,831 3,862 3,922 4,109 4,138 4,145 4,191 4,314 4,471 4,497 4,525 4,529 4,538 4,549 4,559 4,563 4,704 5,249 5,292 5,434 5,475 5,621 5,665 5,815 6,128 6,162 6,190 6,322 6,882 6,900 7,185 7,271 7,935 8,436 8,495 8,774 9,367 10,519 10,799 11,151 11,454 11,736 12,153 12,659 12,762 13,337 13,739 13,826 13,949 14,465 14,600 15,598 15,778 15,847 15,962 16,246 16,516 16,846 17,776 17,980 18,159 18,372 19,043 19,909 25,289 25,704 26,578 29,122 41,165 41,321 43,281 49,773 51,651 52,392 67,593 114,063 248,864 842,308 1,095,000

Seeing those numbers, do you feel like flipping burgers for a minimum wage?
Cause here is some trivia, at the average 300 burgers you might prepare at a Mcdonald's in a shift, in countries like Lesotho you will have to serve each citizen in the country one hamburger more than once till you get your BTC. In Gambia it will be 10 hams to each citizen!

!!!!!
Update as the 10th of February at price of $47500

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156

Luxembourg Australia New Zealand Germany United Kingdom Ireland Netherlands France Canada Monaco Belgium San Marino South Korea Israel Austria Slovenia Spain Japan United States of America Andorra Taiwan Malta Lithuania The Bahamas Poland Greece Oman Hong Kong Macau Portugal Saudi Arabia Argentina Barbados Slovakia Czech Republic Romania Estonia Latvia Croatia Palestine Saint Kitts and Nevis Montenegro Hungary Antigua and Barbuda Palau Costa Rica Turkey Bulgaria Belize Ecuador Jordan Lebanon Uruguay Chile Trinidad and Tobago Marshall Islands Bolivia Paraguay Morocco Bosnia and Herzegovina Guatemala Colombia Panama Albania South Africa El Salvador Serbia Turkmenistan Seychelles Gabon Vanuatu Fiji Thailand Mexico Dominica Brazil Peru Ukraine Philippines Equatorial Guinea Malaysia Russia People's Republic of China Dominican Republic Mauritius Indonesia Azerbaijan Honduras Republic of Macedonia Kosovo Saint Vincent and the Grenadines Jamaica Kuwait Cambodia Papua New Guinea Iraq Guyana Tunisia Republic of the Congo Botswana Moldova Armenia Algeria Mongolia Laos Vietnam Comoros Nepal Nicaragua East Timor Chad Pakistan Iran Libya Uzbekistan Haiti Mauritania Lesotho Solomon Islands Nigeria Benin Afghanistan Central African Republic Kazakhstan Ivory Coast Cameroon Togo Burkina Faso Kenya Eswatini Myanmar Senegal India Angola Niger Mali Bhutan Sri Lanka Zambia Sierra Leone Mozambique Ghana Uganda Guinea-Bissau Madagascar Malawi Tajikistan The Gambia Democratic Republic of the Congo Bangladesh Tanzania Kyrgyzstan Syria Cuba Sudan Venezuela

540 546 554 587 641 688 696 715 719 720 722 814 826 881 997 1,015 1,047 1,072 1,150 1,163 1,278 1,448 1,542 1,577 1,588 1,598 1,612 1,689 1,727 1,739 1,745 1,806 1,936 1,961 1,991 1,997 2,003 2,195 2,443 2,451 2,482 2,501 2,714 2,720 2,745 2,778 2,821 2,914 2,964 3,138 3,206 3,227 3,249 3,254 3,757 4,168 4,259 4,276 4,338 4,390 4,418 4,470 4,540 4,674 4,723 4,750 4,803 5,056 5,283 5,341 5,351 5,364 5,384 5,586 5,627 5,931 6,028 6,066 6,116 6,210 6,506 6,552 6,562 6,635 6,831 7,079 7,120 7,164 7,170 7,185 7,203 7,218 7,224 7,447 8,311 8,380 8,604 8,669 8,900 8,969 9,207 9,702 9,757 9,801 10,010 10,897 10,925 11,376 11,512 12,563 13,357 13,450 13,892 14,831 16,655 17,098 17,655 18,135 18,583 19,243 20,043 20,207 21,118 21,753 21,891 22,086 22,903 23,117 24,697 24,982 25,090 25,273 25,723 26,150 26,673 28,145 28,469 28,752 29,090 30,152 31,523 40,040 40,698 42,081 46,110 65,179 65,425 68,528 78,807 81,781 82,955 107,022 180,599 186,425 394,034 1,333,654 1,733,750

I don't know where you got these data, but in the Philippines, the latest standard minimum wage is ₱570 to ₱610.^[1] There are variations, of course, like whether you belong to the agriculture sector, or you are working in a business establishment employing less than 15 or 10 persons only, or you are from a different region, and so on.

Supposing it's ₱610 and the price of BTC in PHP right now is ₱1,635,564.73, a minimum-wage worker would only be working approximately 2,681 days to achieve 1BTC. That would be more than 7 years.

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[1] https://pia.gov.ph/news/2023/06/30/ncr-wage-board-grants-php40-hike-in-the-daily-wages-for-private-sector-workers#:~:text=NCR%2D24%20on%2026%20June,or%20less%20workers%2C%20and%20manufacturing

Funny yet so sad and choking to realize how unfair wealth distribution is all over the world. Governments are Doing their best  to keep workers on minimum wage using them as slaves for the rest of their lives working for a specific few people who never had to work hard or spend any time in such jobs.
Regarding your mentioned countries, I must point out that your statistics may not be all right as for instance, you mentioned that 1 bitcoin which currently trading at $30k and in Algeria we don't use the bank's foreign currency exchange rates. Instead of the actual exchange rate might be much higher, like 1 bitcoin being worth 4 million dinar with bank price, but you might need to pay more than 6.6 million dinar to buy it due to this factor ( you can’t exchange dinnar to any other currency in bank). As a result the equivalent number of days you need to work in Algeria to afford 1 bitcoin is at least 9,000 days.
And also an important note  to know is that the majority of Algerians earn salaries are very close to the minimum wage which is 20k dinnar.

And you're going to work every day of the week, 30 days out of 30?  ;D
The table takes into account the maximum working hours also, it's derived from the minimum wage a worker can get with the minimum required of work a week. So it's (1635564/610)*7/5 so 3,753, pretty close to the table at 3,862.

Yeah, I should have added it includes resting days but the title won't let me so I'll add in the OP!


I intentionally left out a few countries from the minimum wage table where there were * about the rates and the numbers really didn't seem right, but in most cases when I saw them around countries in the same region and roughly the same GDP per capita I let them slide.
I have serious doubts about Argentina now that I'm double-checking the ranking!


The sad part is that Bitcoin won't change a thing cause, as you can see it's not the poorest of the poor in poor countries that can afford to invest enough to change their life ina meaningful way!

Because it is not easy for many people to have enough capital to buy at least 1 BTC, it's a fortune if you can own at least 1 BTC.

The controlled supply (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply) so that in future, less bitcoins will be created from mining and block rewards so if you don't have enough 1 BTC, you should not feel disappointed.

If I can have 0.1 BTC, I feel happy enough and I will work with my ass to increase that amount to like 0.2 BTC or 0.3 BTC which is a fortune for my future retirement. I believe that in future like next 10 to 12 years, even 0.1 or 0.2 BTC will be a dream of many Bitcoin newbies.

Well, in a capitalist society not everyone can be millionaires and businessmen because if that happens, there's no one to work their machines that's making them the money. And it's weird that people are okay with all of this, in my country they even worship the politicians running the corrupt regime.

I don't get how we are different in the estimate, there's 299 typical working days in a year in the Philippines so I multiplied that to 610 and then I divided the product to the current price of bitcoin as of speaking right now which is 1,635,803.82 and it gave a result of 8.97 which is around 3276.3 according to Google. Maybe the reason why your estimate is much lower than what OP has for Philippines. Or I did something wrong in my calculations, happy to be corrected.

Luxembourg is in the top spot iirc is because they are tax free or something or that most of their workforce are working in neighboring countries right?

Very interesting data, thanks for posting. So it's gonna take you more than a year except 3 countries to get a complete Bitcoin in your holdings.
And almost 10 years for 80 bottom countries, I mean by the 10 year time period, the price of Bitcoin will surely change and this data will be wrong.

I am sure it's just taking the current price in the calculation and not the price it will be after 1 year from now.

Thank you very interesting study. Glad I'm fourth to last. :D
At least I'm not in the last place!!! This is really encouraging. ;D
According to the numbers, I need 114,063 days, which is equivalent to about 312 years.

This means that if I start collecting my wages from today and hand over the task to my children and then to their grandchildren, we will get after about five generations (if we assume the average age is about 70 years) on 1BTC, of course, if the price of Bitcoin remains at its current price.

Although it's very frustrating for me, at least the rest of the members who live in other countries will feel optimistic compared to me.

This is so great, this is the data sheet we all didn't know that we needed haha. So currently working 3 years at minimum wage will earn you one coin assuming the market stays the same.  So make 3 times and much and do it in 1 year!!! Work harder making double and do it in half a year!!! Just gotta figure out how to increase your earnings. If there is a will there is a way! I am still trying to figure out how to do this myself haha

In my opinion, it is wrong to rely on earning from the minimum wage to get 1 BTC, it is not impossible to do but it will take a very long time. Apart from carrying out routine activities as an employee who is still paid the minimum wage, it is necessary to find other activities to support income.
Getting 1 BTC is the dream of all Bitcoiners, they will do everything they can to achieve their dreams in their own way. The rules seem to restrain and squeeze the people to change their lives. Smart people will try to make the latest breakthroughs to win in their own way without depending on unclear rules from the government.

One thing you are not factoring in is the cost of living. In some countries you might make less but you spend less on rent and food. So you might get the Bitcoin quicker.

Canada is a perfect example. Min wage is higher in most provinces compared to most states. However cost of living here is crazy expensive. In the US you get paid a little less but your rent and food and everything is much cheaper. Something to consider.

Well I think the data you provided already accurate enough, it's impossible to get the most accurate monthly salary from the native, calculating the cost of living, inflation rate, the volatility of Bitcoin price etc. It looks impossible for the countries that need to work for 3650+ days to get a Bitcoin because it take 10 years and many people will choose to spend it to buy house. People who live in poor countries must not only depend with their minimum salary because it's too damn low, thanks to the current technology where people have a chance to get paid higher by become a freelancer or take a remote job.

You have made quite an impressing topic here. But there will definitely be some wrong data present in your post because most of the data is not accurate. For example, i am a Pakistani and i know that what's the minimum wage of a Pakistani Labor. Which is only $5. Yeah $5 dollar a day and if you started to save $5 dollars a day and wanted to buy BTC at the price of current BTC's Price which is around $29,990. Then with the following formula you have to wait 5998 days not 8,495

Number of Days = $29,990 / $5
Number of Days = 5998 days

And if you are able to save 29,990$ in 5998 days which is equivalent to 16.42 Years. Which means we are going to buy BTC after four halving. And i am sure even if we started to save $5 a day we will not be able to buy BTC at the rate of $29,990. Because after 16 long years. Who know what will be the price of 1 BTC.

That's sad but bitter truth. But many has worked their ace off to make more money then just $5 dollars so that they could fulfil their dreams too. Because in a person who earns $5 a day, he is empty at the end of the day too. Because this money is not enough. And believe me i was in that phase when i was earning $5 dollars.

The data for Nigeria should be much higher than is quoted there, which may be same for other countries as well.

In Nigeria the minimum wage is N30,000 which is equivalent to just over $38, making the daily minimum wage $1.28.
When you calculate that to the price of Bitcoin now one will need to work for 24,474 days with no leave or off days. This is over double the days you quoted in the opening message.

That's 64 years, when you factor in the increasing price of Bitcoin over time and the inflationary rate of fiat currencies, then the number might double or even triple.

Such an informative thread, i was particularly interested in my dear country, Nigeria's position on the list, with the level of suffering and hardship in the country, which is as a result of the current economic meltdown plus other factors, i was thinking that Nigeria will be the last on the list, but i am a bit surprised to see that there are still countries that are way worst, which means their minimum wage is even way lower than that of Nigeria.

Now, if the minimum wage has anything to do with the economic situation of a country, i would say that this list shows that the economic situation in most countries are not encouraging at all,
Anyways,  i hope people stop depending on salaries.

Philippines Represents :D
At first, I didn't understand the table, but now it's clear. Number of work days to achieve 1 Bitcoin.

I am also curious about the table from OP: Does it mean the higher on the list, means the higher minimum wage per country?

For example, if, Luxembourg is the top 1 on the table, do this mean, Luxembourg is the highest minimum wage in all the countries?

Taxes and deductions for benefits are also not included, so it is still more than that. I can't imagine that even working like a robot (no eating and no sick leaves) it takes lots of years to achieve a whole bitcoin, and almost you are in your life with a very stagnant and continuous cycle. This is really hard if we are just minimum-wage earners. This is also a sign to take another job or side hustle so that if ever you are really planning to buy bitcoin, it is better to have another source of income if you don't want to work years just to save money to buy bitcoin.

If I would have done I would end with the same garbage PPP.
No, the rules are simple, you flip hamburgers, you stay in the local church basement, you dress from the salvation army and you eat leftover hams!


Same thing as with the other issue, some numbers were from monthly minimum wage to some daily wage, so for some countries, you will need to do a *7/5 thing to get the actual time it will take since those numbers in the table are including resting days when you don't work!


Yup, around 2300 euros per month.

I am quite shocked with the inflation rate of Venezuela, i was watching a documentary movie of Venezuela. And i came to know that this country has the most oil reserved in the world. But still, why this country is being scattered like this. So, actually that documentary wasn't actually a documentary but instead a series of jack Ryan which i just started to watch and in his 2 seasons. They helped some bonalde women to become President.

The main purpose of mentioned this is, i think like other resource full countries, Venezuela is also facing the same level of corruption that has led it's inflation rate so high. Like to gain 1 BTC or to collect around $30k dollars we have to wait 1,095,000 days. I am still shocked. I hope the conditions of this country will be restored to normal inflation rates like others. But still, the country has been pressed by many entities for the gain of Oil.

I live in Indonesia and according to the data you presented, Indonesia needs 4,471 days to earn 1BTC.
Looking at the real data, the minimum wage in Indonesia and the highest in big cities is only around $200-$300/month.
Almost accurately, it takes about 12 more years but provided that the wage money is not used for other needs.

The math looks possible, but in reality, it's impossible to do. You have to have some other source of income to be able to directly buy 1 BTC.
But we can do trading and investing to double the money. and Bitcoin prices also fluctuate, there are times to buy at low prices.

Bitcoin will not change anything, it depends on how a person is able to change himself by investing from the wages they receive, it will grow and continue to grow.

So, people earning minimum wage ...live from hand to mouth, they will never have the full amount available to buy Bitcoin. The best bet for them will be to get a second job and to use the full amount from that job to fund their first Bitcoin.

Also ... you have worked with a fixed price... so if the price of a Bitcoin goes up, then people can sell their coins.... wait for the price to go down and then buy more Bitcoin from the profit. (this is what I have done and I reduced the time and money from my wages to get to that first coin.  ;)

Its ironic to read some bitcoiners who from this statistics think bitcoin won't change anything. Everyone wants to be rich just like in case of fiat. The statistics is situated on how long it will take a person or worker in some countries to hit 30k dollars if they depend squarely on their minimum wage. Hence, if the price of bitcoin hits 20k the duration will reduce. Since the price of bitcoin is not static the notion that it won't change anything doesn't sit right with me, because bitcoin is made for transactional purposes not to save up to 1btc. There will never come a time when people will be stopped from using the blockchain if they don't own up to 1BTC. The thread is good as time is being invested, but it should have been stated to be how long it takes to make 30k dollars not 1BTC.

I miss Switzerland in the list.

That means 0.02BTC is worth a lifetime of labor. I've read about Bitcoin in Venezuela several times. As far as I understand, the local currency is just worthless, and people prefer dollars or Bitcoin. That doesn't mean someone will work their entire life for 0.02 BTC, and I also don't think you can retire in Venezuela if you own 0.02 BTC. It just means the official exchange rate doesn't mean anything because the money is basically worthless.

This can not be accurate. Not that your post is not accurate, but because of how bitcoin will continue to increase and appreciate in price and value, unlike fiat that will continue to depreciate and make the increasing minimum wage to remain almost stagnant, making the days/weeks/months/years more to earn 1 BTC.

The minimum wage in Nigeria is ₦30000 (₦ is Nigerian Niara)
$1 to a naira was ₦461 some weeks ago (both CBN rate and at Investors and Exchange window). ₦750 in parallel (black market).

When the new president was elected, within the first month in office, no more CBN rate to determine foreign reserves price. I&E price is used now and it is determined by the market and similar in price with parallel market.

Recently, naria has continued to depreciate. It is ₦850 to a dollar yesterday. It is ₦870 today. Can you see how this can not be accurate. Let me use ₦850.

Bitcoin at $30000. Multiplied by ₦850. Equals ₦26,100,000
Bitcoin at ₦26,100,000
Minimum wage in Nigeria per month is ₦30000
That will take 870 months to achieve
Using 30 days for the calculation to represent 1 month, that will take 26,100 days.
Using years, it would take 72.5  years to achieve.

(NGN means naira)
I created a topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457300.msg62448431#msg62448431) on Nigeria local board about BTC/NGN price speculation. Bitcoin reduced recently, but having bitcoin and comparing it to naira, the price of bitcoin that decreased from ₦31500 to ₦29990, it still appreciate in price if compared with naira, from ₦25,750,000 or so, to ₦26,100,00 today.

I wonder if bitcoin will no more decreasing below $100000. The more the days, weeks, months or years that it would take to achieve 1 BTC with a minimum wagenas bitcoin price continue to appreciate.

It would be surprising to compare $150 that I am receiving on this forum now with Nigeria minimum wage of ₦30000 per month.

$150 in a week (7 days makes it 28 days in a month and 13 months can be achieved in a year if it goes on)
That is $21.42 in a day.

For minimum wage of ₦30000
That is $35.29 in a month if ₦850 is used.
$1.176 in a day.
The minimum wage now is like people living below the poverty line

Holding bitcoin is far better. Although many people leave their money in foreign reserves like USD, Euro and Pounds Sterling. Some even moved to coins like USDT which is also centralized. Bitcoin is decentralized.

Chances are many people earning minimum wage will never be able to buy a Bitcoin. At the bottom of the list it's already impossible (working several lifetimes per Bitcoin). At the top of the list it's still possible, but I'm hopeful the "impossible" line keeps moving upwards as Bitcoin's value increases further.

Of course they can still buy a fraction of a Bitcoin :)

It's just as informative as it is right now, after all, it can be both ways, if I had made this 2 years ago the numbers would be double, if half a year ago the numbers would be half. Basically there is no right time to make it!


The moment we can't keep track of how much bread is it's the moment we stop caring about what 80 years of work might bring you, right?  ::)
It would be fun to revisit this in a year or two.


I guess Switzerland is missing Germany on the no minimum wage list too!


Talking with zero information on this, so complete assumption but I think nobody is actually working on that wage either. Something like in Belarus, where there is no unemployment because the unemployment check was something like 10$ a month so nobody came to register as unemployed, the country had full employment. Here there is a minimum wage because that's how much the state thinks it can pay, not that they are actually working for this.


And what do you think will change?
Do you think people will stop working on a minimum wage, that the minimum wage will earn you a good life? Do you think there will be no poverty? We had the gold standard for a millennium, did any of those disappear while it was used?
How could BTC change this for everybody in this world?

You're not including taxes so likely the numbers are much higher. But people are interested in getting a BTC should not be working minimum wage in the first place, because a professional job will almost certainly be enough to net you one after a year or two.


The gold standard couldn't stop countries from sliding into a worthless currency trap: Hungary and Germany immediately come into mind, and I'm pretty sure there are more countries for whom the existence of a stable lending standard couldn't protect, and it's likely to be the same case with Bitcoin as well.

There will always be governments printing too much money. ::)

That's about more than 10 years for our country and actually, it might gonna work since most of the time why you are saving it for bitcoins, you are actually having it for future retirements and the value of 1 BTC today is good to buy an agricultural lot and have your own beautiful farm in the province. That's not really a bad idea given that you have multiple sources of income that you don't need to spend a penny from your salary. People here mostly have their own businesses because they know that their wages alone cannot be enough for their survival in the era of inflation.

If nothing else, at least I can console myself that I am in the top 50 and that it would only take me about 4.5 years of work with a minimum salary to buy 1 BTC at the current price, of course provided that I live on air, sun and water from the well/stream ::)

Otherwise, the minimum wage for 2023 in my country is 560 EUR, so compared to the data you have you should add about 100 more days more, although this does not mean something too much in the big picture. For those who think that milk and honey flow in the European Union, I will just say that East and West can not be compared on this issue.

Yet my dear prime minister says that we live well, of course, when he compared us to some African countries :-X

Just looking at the numbers making me feel that I'm one of the luckiest people on Earth that have managed to hold a quite some amount of Bitcoin up to the present.

While these minimum wages are likely the sum that one has to work for with the calculation of how many days it shall be saved. The deduction for the daily needs and survival, taxes and those monthly bills is likely make it hard to impossible for minimum wage earners to own a bitcoin.

I see this thread as an appreciation thread instead.

This may differ from country to country. Like in Nigeria, ₦30000 is the minimum wage after tax has been removed. For those like NYSC that tax is not removed, they are collecting ₦33000 while the minimum wage is ₦30000. ₦3000 difference.

You are correct. But if there is inflation, there is also more possibility that the minimum wage would be increased later. Like in Nigeria, the minimum wage was ₦18000 five years ago or so, but increased to ₦30000. The inflation in the country is increasing and Nigeria Labur Congress (NLC) are telling the federal government to increase the minimum wage now.

But what I just know is that, you are correct because the minimum wage is not increasing automatically with inflation, but controlled by the government entirely in a way the citizens are likey not first favoured.

There is never a thing that will end poverty for everyone in this world. And remember the wording “Anything" was first used before you added “everybody" that's where my point was raised from. How would it be said that bitcoin cannot change anything? Does it mean the whole innovation is a wasted effort ? Multiple amount of people got lifted from poverty through the use of cryptocurrency and bitcoin. Some traded, created contents and marketed products using bitcoin. Many were able to move ahead of their minimium wage salaries and made more profits through bitcoin. Hence aside the monetary aspect, bitcoin is digital money and is not the government that makes changes for people that decides for themselves, whether to be rich or remain poor by not advancing their skills to make more streams of income. All the questions you asked is dependent on personal decision not on bitcoin. Bitcoin has no leg or neither does it speak. So, people who wish to make 30k dollars can think outside the box for themselves and earn it, not by waiting for bitcoin to help them think. Nobody is a slave today, people are free to take steps. Stop shifting the responsibilities of the government to bitcoin, what does bitcoin has to do with increasing minimum wage? Bitcoin is here to solve monetary problems such as moving from centralized ledger to decentralize ledger that works with time. He that wish to get 1btc while alive should think of another alternative other than depending on minimum wage. How many people who depend on minimum wage invest into bitcoin?

I think the idea of this metric, but I'd like to comment on it regarding my country, Ukraine. Considering that people don't normally work literally every day and salaries are often established per month rather than per day, I went in the following way in my calculations:
3,831 days = around 128 months (a bit less)
The price of Bitcoin (in local currency) is 1,116,000 UAH. Minimum monthly wage is 6700 UAH. So 167 months of work are required, which is around 5010 days. I don't think working with zero weekends for such a long time is realistic, so perhaps accounting for them or making a slightly different metric (how many years or months of work are required, perhaps).
If we don't count 8 days of working per months (weekly weekends), then we need to subtract 1336 days, which leaves us at a number pretty close to the one in the table.

Yes, there is a context for discussion, but it is of the "political" type, as long as the numbers allow us to reach our idea, everything is debatable, but there is a lot of blah, blah.

These results are based on made-up statistics, (sources offiicials) since some governments fix them according to their interests, therefore some countries are very far from the inflationary reality of each country and others in their equivalence are better than what was mentioned (OP).

You want to obtain a reality, use the Bigmac index (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index), it is one of the indices used that is closest to the reality of each country.

this is why years ago when i made the same observations as OP. that bitcoin should not be measured in dollar that is then converted to national currencies. but instead a fair world would be if bitcoin started as a btc / X min wage hours (no fiat peg. just a CPI /min wage hour index thing)

imagine the situation where no matter where you lived you could get btc for the same X hours. where by international traders would then (smiling) mess with the forex to convert for instance Luxembourg currency for Venezuela then buy up 3211x more bitcoin. sell it in Luxembourg again and repeat.. imagine how bitcoin could have impacted forex and after time of adjusting the exchange rates, it could have brought all countries into alignment via forex arbitrage.. but hey that was the dream.

Not necessarily on Bitcoin alone but to any kind of investment. But it won't only be achieved in such way, you could do alternative such as saving or not spending on all of your wants except for the things you need to make a living. In such way you'd have the capacity to invest to anything that you want. You may choose this industry or even landbased investments. Why? Would you be wanting to work until your retirement? 'coz if you are wanting more you should be investing already at the early age for you to harvest once the right time comes. Try asking your older circles and they would be saying the same thing for sure.

Some interesting and informative write up.
And this should be an eye opening if anyone is down there because you will work all your life, and this should probably force one to be considering the route of being your own boss as minimum wage is never going to be enough to cover today's lifestyles to also allow one to save for the future and allow one to enjoy the finer things of life!

Btw @stompix I see Monaco is among the top 10 , but as this is a list by country are they suppose to be there?
***Edit***
Had to Google this thought this is a city found in France, anyway never mind...seems the world has a fork everyday  ;D

Monaco is a country.


It is officially called Principality of Monaco.

A sovereign city-state can be regarded as a country. Independent and having a single city. Their government has full control and sovereignty.

It is terrible to see the number of days Africans would have to work in other to get one bitcoin. This is how the situations of the third world and developing countries are.  Really everybody can not be wealthy at the same time and there is even distribution of wealth in the society. Should we say the governments are doing their best or they are under performing which has resulted to this poor statistic as it shows the weak salary payment structure and minimum wage of each country listed here.

R.I.P ——-> Yearly appraisals and angry boss on the ass. 💀
I think this factor isn’t considered in the above hypothetical situation. I know that you have considered minimum wage but even the minimum wage appreciates every year and it also gets revised as per the yearly budget set by a country. There are many countries that seems not on a wager but flexible to fixed salaries purely based on the employee performance and yearly appraisals. That means, oddly at some point every employees from different nations would buy Bitcoins even within 1-2 years of time frame.

But I assume we are discarding all the good factors here and just focusing on low level case scenarios.

Countries with more than 27 years, Lolz.

The difference is crazy between Venezuela and Luxembourg! It’s around 3000 times difference, it’s just crazy to think how little Venezuelan people are working for. Crazy how a Hong Kong resident has to work 1 day and a Venezuelan resident has to work 100 days for the same amount of money. Blows my mind! And makes me think more about how privileged I am to work in a country where working for a dollar doesn’t require a lot of effort. It’s a privilege afterall.

While a longshot from the almost 4k days that you'd have to kill yourself to earn one btc, it's still not any better than the countries on the top of the list. Just goes to show how shitty things are and have been in this country especially now that a crook of a person was chosen as their president. In any case nothing much could be done now really except for us to just hope for the best when the next series of elections come. Of course it won't. I'm thinking this is based off of an average white-collar worker's labor of 8 hours and all that stuff. Plus yearly increase in salaries wouldn't really be taken into account here for the reason that we're not fortune tellers and we can't tell how much the pay's going to be increased by next year, and it's not even consistent. For example in the Philippines alone it took them almost 6 years for the pay grade to increase by 5% or something.

It's not that bad. In some EU countries minimum wage may not be enough to rent an apartment by yourself, buy food and save up, but if you have some wealth given to you by your parents, like you own an apartment and share it with someone, like a girlfriend, you can live fine on 2 minimum wages. It's not going to be a life of adventure, if you know what I mean, but you should be able to save up, be able to buy a car, go abroad for holidays and all that. It's not like minimum wage = slavery everywhere you go. In some countries it only allows to buy the most basic things, but not in all of them.

What is the most interesting is how many countries are at 5k+. If you're at 5k it means unreachable, because you're saving up in fiat terms, so the more time it takes the more impact inflation will have on your savings and the more expensive bitcoin will be. If you decide to save up with a goal of 1 btc over the course of 3 years, that's doable, but 5 years will mean that bitcoin will go through a whole cycle while you're doing it, and at the same time yo will lose at least 5% of what you were trying to save up each year. What looks now like 5 years may in fact end up being 7, or more.

That's some pretty useless statistical data if you ask me. ;D
What's the point of busting your ass working on a minimum wage for the sake of earning one whole Bitcoin? Can't you just earn 0.1 BTC? ;D
Will you consider your life to be truly accomplished after earning that one whole Bitcoin? ;D Why don't you invest in yourself, gather some skills and get jobs, that are paying a higher salary? Why don't you try to build a business? Working on a minimum wage is the definition of wasting your life, while being an underpaid slave. Countries that have low salaries also have low cost of living, so it's not accurate to compare the minimum wage in different countries without calculating the purchasing power parity(PPP).

It is indeed crazy experience to see such gap between too nation's when it comes to minimum wage and salary structure. I was looking at the statistics of Africa and it pisses me off. An individual would need to work for some thousand day's before they can be able to acquire a bitcoin. This is indeed a crazy one for workers of the African nations. This shows that most of the African nations work below minimum wages which are not enough to carter for their needs. This is very disheartening and dissappointing. The government of various nation's needs to sit up and do the needful.

In my country what some people made every month is going to be enough for rent fee only, no extra food buying opportunity or hospital bill, now things are even getting more difficult, you treat typhoid now costs a lot and many start boiling water and avoiding road side food to avoid getting sick, just pray you are in good health or else you are in a big problem, everything health care costs a lot.

The only option left is to learn a skill that will pay your bills and also keep you alive through medical bills and checkup, the problem is the country situation but the bigger problem is your monthly income or source of income.

I don't see a problem with the comparison without the inclusion of the Purchasing Power Parity (even though it matters) - but this is just a high level comparison. Also, you made really fine points, earning only minimum wage while doing little to nothing to get skilled in other professions that are in high demand is one way to die poor. Especially in a time like this when you don't necessarily need to go to a university to actually learn or master a skill.  There are plenty of resources (God bless the internet). I know a ton of people that worked minimum wage but went the extra mile and got and in-demand skill. It was a great decision.

A man who stops learning is dead. Good point to note is that most people are comfortable earning minimum wage.

There is nothing wrong with this, it just shows that some countries are better to live in and make a living for yourself, you will be able to survive and invest if you are in Australia than Venezuela,  I like this whole concept and I thank OP for creating it, very interesting to me, even with 0.1 BTC, that will be hell for people in Venezuela to get still, compare to someone living and working in the U.K, this just show that if your country sucks very bad it can affect your future too, no wonder my country people are running out to Australia and the United Kingdom, I would have done the same but my payment are always in dollars, so I am doing better than those that are getting paid in Fiat currency in my country.

You must consider that in nations where average salary is high, they will have to spend higher expenses so they will not save too much money after spending. If in a low income countries, we receive such high salary, we will have big savings and can use it for Bitcoin investment.

However in high income country, what you can save from that same salary will be lower. It can affect capital for investment but seriously, people in high income countries have better chances to have 1 bitcoin as investment from their money.

It also tells you how mismanaged is Venezuela in general, Venezuela has oil and many other natural resources, nice weather and hard working people, however just because of yet another social experiment politicians played with the lives of millions only to be proved wrong once again, so when taking everything into account it is not surprising there is such a disparity between a country that is adequately administrated and one that is a complete disaster.

^As I heard this before Venezuela was the poorer country in all countries and you are very much money if you have BTC there because that is a lot compared to the dollar value. But you are both right, it is evident that Venezuela's mismanagement is reflected in various aspects of the country. Despite its abundant natural resources, favorable climate, and industrious population, the nation has faced significant challenges due to the consequences of political decisions. It is disheartening to witness how politicians conducted social experiments that negatively impacted the lives of millions of people. These misguided policies have repeatedly proven to be ineffective, exacerbating the disparities between well-administered countries and those facing complete disasters.
By the way, the OP data is a good comparison of which country BTC is good to convert, it is Venezuela.

Unfortunately that is true for many cities all around the world. Rent is not nation based but more like city based because even from city to city it changes which means that we are going to end up with a situation where people will pay a lot of rent in one city of a nation but on another city of that nation it could be cheap. In my country, the three biggest cities have rent so high that the average salary is literally lower than the rent in those cities. Think about it, an average salary is not enough for just rent.

Of course people work more and bigger jobs, sometimes two jobs, and thanks to that they survive but it's a tough deal. I am in one of them, and thank god I own my house, otherwise I would be poor right now.

I thought I wouldn't see Philippines as part of this list. Imagine working your ass off at 3k+ day just to afford an investment to Bitcoin. I mean it's true that you can start at low value first but those minimum wages of an average person doesn't still included the everyday needs such as foods, shelter, clothes and etc. To be honest, the earning I could get in crypto is almost the same to an average person. But the difference is huge, you would spend all your time working with needing a strong mental and physical since work is not easy here. Worse if you applied to a toxic environment it will drain you super.

working for 1,095,000 days on a minimum wage to be able to buy Bitcoin?! damn, is it even worth working for a company that pays in local currency in Venezuela? Their currency really collapsed. I can't fathom how it feels to work hard for money that basically worth nothing.

I rarely watch the local news now. I'm glad they finally decided to increase the standard minimum wage, especially with this crazy price increase on every product. last time I worked for a company the minimum wage was still around ₱400+

C'mon dude you know it's not supposed to be taken at face value :(

I'm thinking this just paints a clear perspective of how fucked some countries are economy wise. With some of them even going so far as 3000 years Lol what the flying fuck Venezuela. But I digress. I think as I said it paints a nice perspective of how things are going on certain countries in a baseline that we could all understand which is bitcoin. With this in mind we're able to see just how drastic the difference is between countries like Luxemburg and Australia, compared to Venezuela or any other country in the bottom floor. While it doesn't pose any clear solution as you are trying to say here, I'm thinking to some people seeing this is more than enough reality check to see how fucked they are country-wise you know.

When you throw away all the context - PPP, median wages, costs of living, rent prices, transportation and so on, your list just reflects the nominal GDP of countries. It doesn't even answer the question of "which country is the best to immigrate to as an unskilled worker to earn 1 BTC". The best way to get 1 BTC is to get a lot of fiat first, and how to do that is something that everyone has to figure out themselves, because everyone is in a different country and has different starting conditions.

This is the reason on why majority of our countrymen flee to other countries in order to look for a bigger opportunity.

Imagine, in our current minimum wage, there is just not enough to both feed our families and save for other things as well. The minimum wage is so low to the point that it is more than difficult to imagine living and saving at the same time. Unfortunately, the standard MW is considered "high" for our standards given that majority of our people are still being paid below the MW.

I just really hope that our economy at least improves in the next couple of years. With the government being so corrupt, no wonder that our country has gone from bad to worse in just a few years.

I read through the responses and while our minimum wage is indeed low, there are other countries that have much lower. Pakistan, for example, has only $5 a day. Nigeria has $1.28 a day. Indonesia probably is only slightly higher than us.

I think one of the big problems here is that while we have a low minimum wage, we actually have relatively expensive goods and services. The cost of living in some urban cities here is so high you can't survive with a minimum salary. As a matter of fact, one of our cities is in the top 20 most expensive cities in the whole of Asia, higher than Macao or Xiamen, for example.^[1] Another city is more expensive than more developed ones like Jakarta, for example, or Kuala Lumpur.^[2]

However, lest it be misunderstood, in reality minimum wage doesn't actually determine how long will you be able to accumulate 1BTC.

---

[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=most+expensive+cities+in+asia
[2] https://www.windowseat.ph/expensive-cities-in-southeast-asia/

I don't think it's possible for unskilled worker to immigrate to the competitive country, they must be skilled in foreign language first. If they only have hard work, discipline and willing to be paid with minimum salary, it's not enough as there's a problem with the communication.

With the current modern era, I think the best is you live in your country or somewhere that has a low lifestyle and become a freelancer that your client are from foreign country. This make you get a high payment with a low spending.

That was indeed crazy but I think people on that country doesn't know a thing if how can they escape their faith so they just go with the flow. If we are truly concerned about them then maybe we can do something? But, that's just how it goes sometimes. There are always people or countries who are poor and then there are rich.

Life is truly unfair. If we are on the comfortable side, we should be grateful and don't complain anymore. The effort that we exert to earn won't only depend on the country we are living but it can also depend on the nature of our job but what was your job anyway and which country do you live? I'm just curious to know it.

You're describing legal immigration, but illegals often barely even know the local language and get employed precisely because they are illegals and might work for below minimum wage and without any extra perks, or even in unsafe working conditions.


What is "best" really depends on individuals capabilities. The truly talented people should move to a country with the best opportunities like the US, because even though the cost of living might be high, the net gain would still be worth it. For others freelancing is indeed the best choice. But even being a good enterprenuer in a developing country could be more profitable than that.

Those are assumptions basing up on such condition and not really trying out to apply on just relying with your minimum wage income on getting a whole coin which we know that its never been that simple nor cant just be even possible.Its true that we could be able to accumulate or get 0.1 instead of a whole coin or simply could purchase or buy on satoshis which is something that much lesser than on a whole coin and at the same time you arent that stressing yourself that much.

Just like some people been saying that numbers wont really be that precise or accurate considering that there are factors like expenses or others which it would really be totally lessening out the overall amount
for you to be able to buy a certain amount of coin and there are unexpected things happen about spending which it would greatly affecting those numbers but in overall
on assuming that there would be no such deductions then those would really be that somewhat considerable.

Actually calculating only nominal GDP is ineffective because the calculation ignores all expenses for living expenses, bills, transportation and others, rationally they have to add up 2x the number of days needed to buy 1 btc of the minimum wage each month, the risk of a low minimum wage will be difficult to allocate funds for savings and even they have to go into debt to meet living expenses for the next half of the month.

The majority of workers who can invest in crypto have additional work so they have large savings to invest, but if we live in a high minimum income country we can invest half of our monthly income or at least every 2 months for investment if we have income from other additional jobs.

Damn my country got rank 86 with 4,471 days  :o of working 12.2 Years damn My age would be 37 to have single bitcoin  ::) :'( and dont forget about the price because bitcoin keep rising so gaining single bitcoin would be hard as fu*k  ;D

I just hope can have a single Bitcoin in my life  ;D it seems impossible for now to get one.

Tho in the past, I can accumulate more than 5 when bitcoin is only 400$ now it woule be very very hard to get one

people who only have fixed income in minimum wage maybe live in low quality life, but it's depend on each country. some people may need to buy cheap daily necessities although the quality is low in order save money to buy something that they need beside of daily necessities. for example maybe they need to buy smartphone, laptop or vehicle. it seems that it is so difficult for them to have a BTC, even buy some satoshi is not so easy for them. but at least they have a job. maybe the answer is to take bigger risk in trading, although join pump and dump market may make them lost their money but it is also provide them opportunity to grow their money, maybe at least in altcoin trading they can earn 3% - 17% profit in day trading depend on their skill. of course they may lost 3% - 17% as well. knowledge is really important.

Compare with the countries with the highest inflation rates and notice the numbers in Venezuela, Sudan, and Syria.


It doesn't only show that people in countries with the lowest minimum wages take longer to accumulate until they have one whole Bitcoin, it also shows that if you live in one of these countries, you SHOULD own Bitcoin as a store of value.

Besides not using that money and living with God knows what as you're saying, you also have to assume that:

• the minimum wage will not change (lol).
• you will still be working at the same place (double lol!).
• the bitcoin price will not change until you manage to accumulate one (triple lol!).

Also, in Greece the minimum wage is 780 EUR, so I'm not quite sure how you calculated 1,018 days. I find more than 1,150.

Well that's make the immigrant is more harder to survive and get a worthy salary, so illegals or unskilled workers must not travel to developed country.

Of course "best" is depends on individuals, but we should refer to ordinary people where they're not the best in something, they're just either enough or near enough. What do you think about those mediocre people who want to get better salary? it's working on McDonald is enough to change someone life from poor country?

Well a .010 BTC goal would just make the stats /x10 and keep the same.

All statistical data can turn to be useless if you think it's not taking into account every aspect. For example, let's add rent, but why add rent if people live in a country with 90% homeownership? Let's add food costs but what about the ones that grow their own crops?
How can we even define the minimum needs others have and from this how can we expect what their goal is as it would be different for each individual not by country?

It's a funny stat, I like it because we always talk about Bitcoin crashing and ending up working for McDonald's instead of buying our island so this is a glimpse at what's waiting for anyone relying on it!


But you can agree that's far easier for someone in the US to get his hand on 30k than from a guy in Madagascar!


And maybe that you have to also get out of that country just as fast as inflation rises?   ::)


Data is from 2022 and was expressed in $, so taking into account the euro was stronger that's why the difference now since I made the target in $ also. The same parity shows now a minimum wage in Greece of 809$ euros if we backtrack but use the current exchange rate.

Generations are considered to be around 20 to 30 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation#:~:text=A%20generation%20refers%20to%20all,and%20begin%20to%20have%20children.%22

So if we average that range (to 25 years), then 312 years would be 12.5 generations.


On a personal level, try to get jobs that earn more than minimum wage, and other ways to improve your income.

I understand that some people have more opportunities to earn wages as compared with others, and sometimes we might not recognize/appreciate some of our opportunities or realize how to spend our time - in terms of learning new skills that might allow us to be able to seek higher paying employment..

Wow, I have no words to say here. I am from Bangladesh and in that long list, it's on number 150. The minimum wage here is approximately 8000 BDT per Month which is $74 (+-).

51,651 days for one Bitcoin. LOL. That's 142 years. I'm not sure if I'm gonna live 42 years late alone 142! Gotta put my children and grandchildren all together at work in order to get one Bitcoin. This truly explains how life could be. It is not easy and not the same for everyone. This has clicked a switch in my brain. Do not look at successful people and think you can become successful just the way they did. Create a formula that suits your environment and situation. Find the right path that will lead you to your success. If you just copy someone else, their life won't match yours. There will always be differences.

Gotta work hard till I can reach that point where people will look at me and say, "I want to become successful like him".

Numbers wont really be that accurate and just like on what others been saying on this thread that there would really be factors which arent that constant just like on what you have said about
price of Bitcoin would neither be going higher or cheaper with that particular accumulation span, plus having the risks on having that job forever isnt that possible on some circumstances and
salary amount could neither change up or not plus been mainly affected by inflation plus deductions of those expenses on which in overall you cant make out calculations basing up
on what you do earn. There's so much deductions on several key areas which it would really be longing out the duration and those numbers would be more than on what
on OP stated.

In the end, we could still able to accumulate Bitcoin on smaller parts and wont really be that necessary on getting a whole but its not really that bad on having a target something like this
on minding about getting a whole coin but the ways and methods or duration would really be varying on each person.

You have touched upon an important aspect of socioeconomic inequality and personnel growth. Indeed, people's access to opportunities and resources can greatly influence their ability to earn higher wages. The factors those contribute to this disparity include education, geographical location, their skill level and above all market demand.

In summary, recognizing and appreciating opportunities, we have to be proactive in seeking personnel and professional growth can help individuals progress toward higher paying jobs. Simultaneously, it is equally important to address systematic errors on broader level for fair distribution of opportunities.

Earning one Bitcoin, in most of developing countries for a middle-class person, it is an arduous task and may require him to work for many years to generate sufficient saving to achieve this ambitious goal.

I'm happy with this thread because it seems interesting and here I will represent my own country, namely Indonesia. For a salary below this minimum it is quite difficult, even to dream of earning BTC. This is quite interesting because I have to fight every day working without a day off and even sacrificing rest time to work part time to earn BTC. What's more, in my area the minimum wage is below average, it seems difficult to earn some BTC if we stay in the same position doing nothing to supplement our income and relying solely on paid work from a few companies. Even though the condition is very small in terms of opportunity to be able to buy BTC, I will never give up on saving because I believe this is an investment that will save me when I get old and one day I will be able to sell some of my BTC at the highest price.

Your determination is very inspiring for all Bitcoin enthusiasts who persistently purchase Bitcoin even in small increments from their monthly savings, despite all constrains and challenges they face to generate some saving for investment in this valuable asset. Our strong faith in Bitcoin's potential to transform our lives in future keeps us confident and resolute in our investment journey despite daily fluctuations in its price.

Well boys, I pick Australia.

Welcome to McDonalds mate, may I take your order?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXaph5sXEAUQl3G?format=png&name=900x900

When we check statistics like this we feel relieved for being on this Bitcoin journey for a long time already, since those times when BTC was pretty cheap, otherwise we would have to work for more than a decade yet to reach the same results we did in few months or 1-2 years on the early days.

On the other hand, for those who are starting just now, they shouldn't feel discouraged. It's possible that in some years you will have to work for two decades or more in order to acquire a single BTC coin. So, a decade doesn't look that bad at all for you who are starting your journey right now.

If I assume that they receive the minimum wage that they don't use for other purposes then they can achieve their dream of owning 1 BTC in the estimated days that you have described. However, it is likely to be quite difficult for them if they do not touch the wages they get for their living needs such as paying taxes, paying rent for houses and all the things in the form of credit that they do. But I think everything is based on faith then someone will succeed faster in accumulating 1 btc in their portfolio such as Trading and becoming an early investor in the token sale. Apart from that, the source of surprise might be from the airdrop results which can be said to be up to $1k or more which is somewhat of a current hype such as Arbitrum and Optimism which they can use as side assets that will be used to buy BTC.

I agree with your overall sentiment regarding figuring out ways to increase your income, whether that is getting a second job or figuring out ways to increase the amount that you make.... not always easy without learning new skills - which surely it would be better to get paid while learning new skills, but not everyone is going to have those kinds of luxuries, especially if they might be wanting to switch industries or to get known for having skills in a kind of work that pays more than their current work.

Regarding getting a whole coin, that likely is not necessary, especially for people who live in parts of the world in which they are accustomed to lower costs of living, and even if they want to live in a western society with a decently strong western income, they might not even need a whole coin to accomplish that..

My latest chart (last revised on April 17, 2023) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5376945.msg58719591#msg58719591) shows that fuck you status of around $2 million based on the 200-week moving average of an investment portfolio will likely be reached in around 20 years (in about 2043)... .so there are quite a few folks around the world that would not necessarily need $2 million in today's dollars to feel as if they reached fuck you status.. $2million generates a passive income of about $6,666 per month, and many people can get by comfortably on a way lower amount of passive income... maybe even less than $1k per month for some folks.. and still feel comfortable within their own expectations and feelings of comfort/luxury.. or having everything that they need/want.


If your goal is to accumulate more BTC, then the best way to do that is to continue to buy BTC through DCA, lump sum and buying on dips.. and then perhaps HODL if you run out of money when you buy on dips but the dip keeps dippening.

It is very risky to be fucking around with selling BTC in order to accumulate more.. .. even though in theory and on paper it seems like it could work... but still risky in actual practice to fuck around with selling in order to accumulate more BTC when the better practices remain buying regularly and buying on dips.. or saving for dips... sure maybe once you get to a decently high level of BTC and maybe you are even way overly allocated in BTC, then perhaps it would be good to start shaving off some BTC as the BTC price goes up in order to prepare just in case it might come back down, but if it does not come back down, then that might be o.k. too in order to have had taken some cash out of BTC and perhaps just holding it for extra spending money, increasing your living standard, investing/diversifying into other assets, or whatever.. gives some flexibility to sell small amounts of BTC at various points, maybe 10% for every 100% the BTC price goes up or some kind of reasonable kind of raking of approach like is described in Rpietila's (Risto) (RIP) 2013 Thread entitled.:  (SSS) - A Sane and Simple bitcoin Savings plan (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345065.msg3697405#msg3697405)


For sure, one of the advantages of having had gotten into bitcoin within the past 4-10 years would have had been that you may have had some time to accumulate BTC prior to the most recent price run up that started to happen in late 2020 and really we went from $10k to $69k back down to $15,479 and then to our current price of around $29k - which has not really made it easy to acquire a lot of BTC in the past 3 years or so.. And, in that regard, it would have been better to either get in early and to lump sum invest or just to get in early enough that most of your bitcoin acquisitions had taken place prior to the last run up.

Alternatively, people who are new to bitcoin at this particular moment do not have the luxury of being able to go back in time and to buy bitcoin at lower prices, so they have to figure out what they are going to do right at this moment based on information that is currently in front of them.  Buy or not to buy?  How much to buy?  how aggressive to be?  Are there ways to increase my income or to reduce my expenses in order that I can buy more bitcoin in such a way that is sufficiently aggressive, but not so aggressive that I end up recking myself?


The reasons for wealth distributions around the world are complicated and frequently neither tied to merit nor are they zero sum game propositions.  There are a lot of ways that rich countries exploit and take advantage of poor countries, including that there are ways in which they are bullies and force monetary policies and even interfere with domestic production in order to create and perpetuate reliance and dependency relations.  

There could be ways that bitcoin can help to fix these matters, even though surely poorer countries will have quite a few disadvantages in terms of getting stakes in bitcoin, but that still should not deter them from creating policies to get bitcoin, just like individuals should still be striving to get bitcoin, even if poor people are more disadvantaged in their abilities to get bitcoin, but they also should have more incentives to get bitcoin - even though everyone rich and poor are becoming more aware of the power of bitcoin - but some rich folks, institutions and countries are still not recognizing and/or appreciating the power of bitcoin so anyone who gets started sooner rather than later will likely be advantaged over those people who are learning about bitcoin later (and who are acting on their knowledge later).. there are needs to act upon the knowledge that bitcoin is a good (if not the best investment currently available to everyone)... so the sooner you start actually investing into bitcoin the better, even if you are poor as an individual, institution or a government.

It's good to learn every day, and Moreover we aren't parfect on anything so the best idea is always keep our self busy because the more we work the more knowledge we aqure.
If we have a low income by month end you can live your country because their will not be enough money to do so, that's what everybody wanted, living your country to another is also called learning, the type of work you do depends the amount of Bitcoin you hold, op if you are saying this I don't think you have store enough Bitcoin.

This will create certain risks, and in this way you can not only increase the bitcoins in the wallet but also lose, so I would not risk my bitcoins, which I buy for the long term.

If you want to test your skills in trading, then for this you can allocate part of the budget and just try to trade bitcoin, say, in pair with usdt. A few months of trading will be enough to see what results, maybe after that the desire to sell your bitcoins in order to increase their number in the wallet will change.

In fact, the current price of bitcoin is quite high for the average citizen, and not everyone understands that buying bitcoin in parts, satoshi, also makes sense. Thus, they think that they just missed the right time to buy and do not even think about buying now. At the same time, they do not have many alternatives to where they could put their money to save them from inflation. Quite a lot of people save, but most just keep it in fiat and inflation eats their savings year after year.

My sister is currently working in Germany. It's great to hear that you only have one year to obtain one Bitcoin, implying that the income is huge. It encourages me to work in Germany, where she lives. I truly want to own one Btc someday, and that is my for a long time goal. It's great to have "whole number" of Bitcoin because most people only have decimal of it. Working overseas is not easy, but with motivation and inspiration, it is very possible.

I work for a salary of no more than $230 in one month. I can't rely on this money to buy Bitcoin, to pay electricity, water, internet, food and drink, school fees have not given much money left over to buy bitcoin. But actually I am lucky enough to have known Bitcoin since 2015. So I feel happy, right now I am focusing on the funds I have for the needs of life and Bitcoin investment. I have separated everything and I will not try to reduce the amount of Bitcoin if it is not in urgent conditions.

Some of those numbers are really crazy, it's insane to see such big differences among different countries but, unfortunately, that is no surprise at all. Now I understand more why before the merit system was added to the forum there were people participating in the bounties campaigns with tens of accounts, probably a few posts on this forum were worth more than a 8-hour shift in their country...

Sure one of the dilemmas of starting early in any investment - especially volatile ones like bitcoin - is that if the BTC price largely continues to go up, then you likely would have had been way better to leverage buy at a way earlier time and then ride it out for one cycle or more - however, one of the problems of leverage buying is that you might have had leveraged at a time in which the BTC price was way higher and then you end up losing a lot of opportunity costs, that could even last 3 years or longer, to wait out for the BTC price to get back to the price that it was when you entered into the leverage buy.

So if the BTC price is tending to go up, then many times, it is going to be higher after a whole cycle.. even though we did also have a bit of a quirk when the BTC prices spent around 9 months from June 2022 to March 2023 touching upon or even plenty of time below the 2017 market high of $19,666... which caused a lot of pundits to suggest that it might not have had been valuable to be buying BTC in the past 4.5 years based on BTC prices not then sufficiently appreciated higher than they had been in late 2017.

Even if some of those ideas would have had been technically true for anyone who might have had spot price bought bitcoin in late as a kind of lump sum investment; however, surely some of those impressions are misleading in terms of the overall value of BTC as an investment, even if there might have been a start to buying BTC near the peak of BTC price performance in late 2017.  

Just a straight forward DCA strategy into BTC buying $100 per week since about the top of the 2017 price rise would have resulted in around $30k invested and 2.6708 BTC accumulated (https://dcabtc.com?sd=2017-10-26&sda=custom&f=weekly&d=6_years&ac=10000&c=true). Of course if you do not make enough money to stack $100 per week, you can still figure out how much you would have had been able to stack during that time, and still be in profits.. and part of my point is that there are quite a few advantages of stacking BTC over time rathe than lump sum investing.. especially since many people (and probably especially poor people) could not even gather up funds for lump sum investing anyhow, so the real only meaningful and practical way to build a BTC position is to do it over time and to try to manage it into whatever extra cashflow that they are able to put together and to be able to thereafter put that value into BTC for the longer term and to let the ongoing investment to ride out and hopefully build in value and to compound upon itself, even if it might take 20-30 years or more to really see a lot of meaningful life changing value in their investment into bitcoin, and even though there are no guarantees that a bitcoin investment will end up paying off, it seems that investing into bitcoin is still amongst the best (if not the best?) option available to normal people, aka normies, aka poor people, aka not rich people.


I doesn't seem to be a waste of time to look at the data.. even if there are likely several flaws in the comparisons and the ways that different countries collect (or fail to collect) their data.. even discussing the various ways that the data is flawed might create various talking points in regards to the extent that any individual believes that s/he is able to earn beyond the minimum wage - or if regular folks are actually living off of (or paid in something close to the minimum wage - or perhaps many folks are earning a amount that differs from the minimum wage).

Of course, people make tradeoffs in terms of whether they invest into their education, job skills or various other investments (including bitcoin) that they can make after they have paid for their various living expenses.  I am largely with you in terms of the value to try to invest into things that are going to give life time earning power, so it might not be a good idea to invest money into bitcoin that could otherwise increase your life long abilities to earn on a regular basis and then from those extra earnings it might be good to invest into something like bitcoin, but sure people can choose to continue to roll over their extra income into themselves so that they might not ever be able to justify investing into bitcoin based on their still having decent bang for the buck in terms of various ways that they are figuring out how to invest into themselves and to otherwise increase (or secure) their earning power that would be above minimum wage (hopefully magnitudes above minimum wage - but then if the income is magnitudes above minimum wage, then there would be some justifications to put some (if not all) of that extra into investing into bitcoin... bitcoin is a good competitive investment, even though you are correct that investing into yourself might actually have more concrete and better payoffs that last over a lifetime and might well be harder to lose, too.


Fucking around with trading/gambling/altcoins is likely not going to be valuable uses of time - even though I can recognize and appreciate how some people are going to be attracted to figuring out ways that they might be able to earn money on line if they are having difficulties earning money through normal channels that are available in their country.

Well, in this case I personally don't really expect everyone to be able to buy 1 bitcoin. Although it would be great if you could buy 1 bitcoin but of course if you really want something like that for our less income then there is no need to wait to be able to buy 1 bitcoin to be in bitcoin.
There are several strategies that can be done to make ourselves as bitcoin investors such as by buying gradually (DCA) or maybe waiting in some moments when bitcoin has decreased.
When only fixated on being able to buy 1 bitcoin with difficult financial conditions it will only waste time, not to mention the unpredictable price of bitcoin every day so that collecting money to buy 1 bitcoin at once will be very difficult to do.

I am now caught up with this thread... and maybe most things in relation to this topic have already been said or starting to repeat?  I know that I am starting to repeat, but hey, I say a lot of similar things, and maybe it does not even matter what the topic of the thread is, even though I am trying to "relate" to a feasible extent.


I think that you got the first part right, but the second part is more difficult in terms of individual actions.

The first part you are talking about taking individual actions in order to try to improve yourself and your situation based on various conditions that exist.  

In the second part, you are assessing that it is "equally important" that we try to change society.. and surely there is nothing wrong  with trying to work to change society, but I doubt that it is "equally important" as trying to figure out ways to locate and work towards taking advantage of areas that you personally are able identify in order to make sure that you are able to make your life better.

Sure people sacrifice aspects of their lives for the greater good.. so I am not really going to disparage those kinds of behaviors, but if you want to try to improve your situation, it is not necessarily taking away from others when you focus on those kinds of behaviors - even bitcoin is designed around pursuing self interests, and even presuming that if we pursue self-interests then the bitcoin system becomes stronger.

Don't get me wrong because I am not sure if bitcoin solves all problems, especially when it comes to the existence of various public goods and even the role of government to protect various aspects of the common good.... but at least when we are referring to the various monetary aspects of potentially removing governments (and even private bodies) from manipulating monetary systems, bitcoin fixes a lot of those things - and as individuals, once we recognize that bitcoin fixes a lot of monetary problems, then it seems to be to our advantage to figure out ways that we invest our time, energies and finances into such a system that is likely going to continue to grow and to fix a lot of monetary mis-incentives that are in society - even though bitcoin does not likely resolve all of those problems.. but we still have individual choices regarding whether or how much of our time, energies and finances to invest into bitcoin and bitcoin-related systems.


Also there is no choice, for anyone who wants to get price exposure to BTC, then it seems better to start investing sooner rather than later, and if you cannot invest because you do not have any money or you do not sufficiently know how much money that you have available because you have not sufficiently figured out your personal finances, then it seems better to get started into getting your shit in order so that you are able to start to accumulate bitcoin sooner rather than later, and even if you might receive payoffs for being sufficiently aggressive in regards to bitcoin accumulation, there is no need to be overaggressive or to get greedy and to gamble.  in other words, a persistent, prudent and reasonably ongoingly aggressive BTC accumulation strategies is still likely to give a lot more options than to delay such strategies, even if it might take you 30 years to accumulate .01 BTC.. but then in 30 years, 0.01BTC may well be worth in the ballpark of $100k..so even if you are accumulating less and less BTC, even $10 per week could end up paying off stupendously... which would be $520 per year, which would be $5,200 every 10 years, which would be $15,600 invested in 30 years... and so even if you are investing $10 per week now, maybe your cashflow will go up in the future too.

We are fortunate more than one another, some people are lucky with the country, environment and status they find themselves and they could buy as much as possible Bitcoin as if it's nothing. But it might take some people years or a decade to get 1 BTC, while some will not even be able to get 1 BTC in their entire life. So the world and this life are not balanced it's we that should plan our way around it particularly if we could afford to save bit by bit, we can be making the purchase as our financial ability could take us, and we would be surprised on what we have bought over time.

I never knew I could have as much Bitcoin as I have now, this was achieved within a year. It was a personal determination when I joined BTT and was encouraged by how people are enthusiastic about the coin, and with all my studies, I knew that Bitcoin is progressive as far as investment is concerned. This made me start saving heavily and what I have now is so encouraging.

Anyone could do this, there is some money that we are just wasting on frivolities, if we are determined and could painstakingly save to buy it with the mind set of "no amount is too small," no one would be left out in the Bitcoin investment, only that our investment size would vary depending on the opportunity we have to earn money.

The forum motivates, I also feel it myself. I had certain thoughts about bitcoin, but I could not structure them, everything was somehow chaotic. But when you communicate here with like-minded people, especially with those who have already passed this path before you, it helps to understand how to act correctly.

This makes it possible to build a certain strategy, understanding how to act in different situations. Of course, this will not always give an exact "recipe for success", but when you have a plan of action, everything becomes much clearer and more understandable. And the forum also helps me to increase the amount of bitcoin in my wallet, I don't know if there is another place with this kind of opportunity.

Although we will be able to miss "again" because we do not have the money to allocate to buy bitcoin but we should not force ourselves, such as taking loans or other things, because it will be something greedy, different when we have more money and allocate most of that money to buy bitcoin it is not something greedy, because we do not force ourselves to "hold money".
But there should be enough time for us to prepare (if we know it first). Except for those who are new to it and want to invest now. Starting to earn an income is one of the best options at such a time, because we can't afford to sacrifice something that we must fulfill in order to invest in bitcoin.
Holding bitcoin is something that must be thought through, because for me once I enter it means I am ready to hold in the long run. Do not let me have to stop in the middle of the road, or in the sense that I should not be half and half in stepping.

I can relate to your situation EarnOnVictor - because in late 2013, when I started to buy bitcoin, I started pretty close to the top of the 2013 price rise, so when I started buying BTC, I had set some accumulation goals for myself, and by the end of 2014, I had far exceeded the BTC accumulation goals that I set for myself - even though my BTC largely remained in the negative for the next year, I was quite content that I had managed to accumulate more BTC than I thought that I was going to be able to.

Another thing is that for a large part of 2015, when I largely had run out of extra cashflow, I recall that there were some moments in which I would come across some extra cashflow, even small amounts like $20 or $50, and when that extra cashflow came in, then i would split it in half and buy half with bitcoin, and sometimes the purchase amounts were very small, so if I split the $50 in half and I bought $25 worth of bitcoin, in many times during 2015, that would have gotten me right around 0.1 BTC..since the BTC price was in the mid to lower $200s for most of that year - at least until about October/November when there was a price surge up to $500, and part of the emotional issues of being new to an asset, such as bitcoin, sometimes you will get nervous and not really know what to do - so for me, in October/November 2015, I ended up kind of panicking when the BTC price was shooting up from $300-ish to $500-ish in a very short time, and I started to believe that I was not going to be able to buy BTC below my average cost per BTC (which was then in the lower $500s), and I ended up panic buying towards the top of that price run with whatever cash I had been saving up and holding in reserves during that year... and that cash was supposed to be used for buying on dips, and I ended up blowing it around nearly $500 per BTC and having to wait around 6 months before those panic BTC purchases got back into break-even and/or profitability.


I agree that bitcoin is such an assymetric bet to the ujpside that you do not need to leverage in order to have the potential of profiting stupendously by being able to either lose 100% or potentially multiply the amount that you invested.

So frequently I suggest that it is good to be aggressive but not overly aggressive, so sometimes people do not know what it means to be sufficiently aggressive without being overly aggressive, and taking out loans and relying upon your BTC returns may well be overly aggressive, but if your income allows you to be able to invest $100 per week, you are not being overly aggressive by doing that.. as long as you otherwise have your expenses under control, including having emergency funds sufficiently available. .so sometimes, you might calculate that you can invest $100 per week, but it might well be better for you to only invest $50 per week, until you get a better grasp on your finances and to maybe stack to the side the other $50 and let it build up.. so that you have it available in case you need it... but if you already have a few thousand set aside for your possible emergency fund that could support you for a few months, then maybe you do not need more money in your emergency fund and you can invest the whole amount of your discretionary cashflow amount (referring to the $100 per week).

I agree with your other point too.. is that once you are in bitcoin, you don't want to be put into a position that you have to sell your bitcoin at any time other than a time that is completely of your own choosing.. so if you have some shit hit the fan situations going on in your life, you need to have some resources that you can draw from, and not from your bitcoin, and sometimes, people might get nervous because they have several thousand dollars sitting in accounts that are not earning much if any interest, so they feel that their money is not working, but if shit hits the fan, it is way better to be able to draw from that cash rather than having to dip into your bitcoin at a time that you do not choose including that you may well want to create a situation in which you do not have to draw into your bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer and even in the beginning years if you do draw into your bitcoin, then it is a spend and replace situation in which you are pretty much buying your bitcoin back within a few days (if not within a few hours) of the time that you had sold (transacted in) them for whatever reason...

and sure sometimes if you have some trading accounts set up, and you might find a situation in which you ended up spending $200 on some kind of a bitocoin transaction, and the BTC price is $29,200-ish.     You could set a couple of orders to buy back $100 at $29k and at $28.8k., and you might or might not consider whether you are being too greedy to buy back at a discount, and those are discretionary calls that you can make depending on other ways that you might be managing your BTC stash, including how heavily you might consider yourself to be in a DCA accumulation phase or if you might have already been stacking BTC for several years (your forum registration date is similar to mine bitLeap, so it is possible that you have been stacking sats for a while, so you may well have more flexibilities in regards to how urgent you believe it is to replace any BTC that you might have sold, as compared to someone who might be in their first year of stacking BTC and feeling that they need to be more persistent in terms of stacking and replacing any BTC that they might have sold).  For my first few years in bitcoin, I was frequently nervous about making sure that I replaced in a fairly short period of time of my selling; however, as I had been in BTC longer, I have been willing to set up extra buy orders and even remove some of my sell orders in order to other wise just let the BTC price come to me rather than rushing any replacement of the BTC that I had sold. 

Indeed, developing a learning mindset is beneficial for the whole life. Learning new things every day is not only helpful to gain knowledge but also enables us to adapt changing circumstances and grow as individuals. It is important to note that beside formal educational from universities, we need to build skills, such as content writing, software development, marketing expertise to generate extra income for investing in Bitcoin and accumulate one Bitcoin, that can potentially alter the financial future of our families.

Indeed the forum is a great place to learn and I must admit before now I wasn't much of the economic discussion type since I always feel I have nothing to offer but ever since I started my surf and research here about  bitcoin I have become so open to many ways in which I can become a successful bitcoin investor and believe me learning from other people mistake can be the best thing that could happen to you because you will have all the tools to successful make your own pathway successful and this is exactly what the forum has been doing to my knowledge on various fields that covers not only crypto (BTC) but also other ways of life.

Aggressive is necessary, but we must be able to place when we should be aggressive when not, logically who doesn't want to be aggressive by continuing to make purchases every week with large amounts? everyone would want to do it, but back again whether we are in a condition that allows us to do it or not. I'm sure everyone wants to buy 1 btc in every purchase, but because of the difficulty of doing that, we (especially me) will definitely do the smallest amount. In short, you can't buy in large quantities, but if you don't want to buy in small quantities, it will eliminate all opportunities. And for me it would be too stupid to miss it.
I actually feel very lucky because I can buy bitcoin in any amount and even though there is a minimum amount it is an amount that we can really do.

I often say this too, that investing in bitcoin requires a lot of sacrifice, especially in terms of time. Our patience will be very tested here, we can't just talk about the sweetness, but also don't miss the bitter taste, and I categorize time as a bitter taste that must remain in my grasp.

First time I saw this thread, interesting way of displaying the data, which is basically just a list of global minimum wages sorted by highest first. This is what comes to mind when I see it in terms of the numbers of days:

3-digits: I would like to live there if I had enough money.
4-digits: I would like to vacation there.
5-digits: You couldn't pay me to go there.
6-digits: There must be a war going on.
Venezuela: WTF


Yes but you know the wage law isn't very well enforced... I know people who get paid far less than that. Some only make ₱2000 per month, which is currently $36.38.

I feel like taking a risk and getting more bitcoin is understandable to a point but not taking a risk to lose it all, that's not how we should do it. Like for example instead of putting 100 dollars into bitcoin for a full year, get 1200 dollars as a loan and put it in bitcoin now and then pay the debt back like you would be getting bitcoin. THAT type of loan makes sense, you are going to do it anyway, but if you do anything else, like get a loan you can't repay and need bitcoin to go up in order to be able to repay, then you are going to be screwed.

Better know the difference between the two and you are going to be doing fine, not a lot of people knows the difference between those two and they end up getting a bad loan that hurts them.

Yes, of course, I know that very well. We can actually expound this discussion a bit to include certain discrepancies and other harsh realities on the ground, but since OP is simply talking about the minimum wage, then those are the official numbers. This discussion is, after all, basically theoretical.

You've been in the country for quite a while. You must have observed how laws and policies here are oftentimes mere hollow letters.

I have some difficulties following you.. because you first say that aggressiveness is necessary, then you go on to say all of the ways that you would still be able to profit from bitcoin while not being aggressive.

I think that the punchline remains that each of us can choose our level of aggressiveness, and we might later regret if we were less aggressive than we should have been and what we could have been.

And surely there are people who had been relatively whimpy in their earliest years of investing into bitcoin, but they still made out very well and perhaps even exceeded the performance of many of their other investments, even though they took a pretty whimpy stake in bitcoin.

I think that it is still the case that a lot of institutions and even individuals are failing/refusing to get off zero, and they likely would end up doing quite well even if they merely took a 1% stake in bitcoin.. even though surely I recommend anywhere between 1% and 25% for beginner investors.. and I try NOT to tell people what to do, beyond telling them to get the fuck off of zero, which I would consider a 1% investment to be relatively whimpy but surely a 1% investment into bitcoin is better than nothing, and with high net worth individuals/institutions, 1% still might end up being $100s of thousands of dollars or even into the millions of dollars to merely invest 1% into bitcoin.

And, there are some institutions and individuals who greatly overallocate into bitcoin by going way over 25%, and I am not even suggesting that those decisions are necessarily wrong or overly gambling - unless I might find out more about their financial and psychological situation to cause me to judge their particulars more based on knowing more about their situation.  So anyone or any institution can end up deciding to go outside of my suggestion of a 1% to 25% range based on their own assessment of the situation, but if they have very little knowledge about bitcoin, then I still would suggest that they start out by staying within my recommended range and any deviance should be based on their own studying of their situation and their learning more about bitcoin.

Even though some of the upside potential for bitcoin has likely passed based on early adoption, yet there still seems to be quite a bit of upside potential in bitcoin that could still continue to cause it to be a disproportionately asymmetric bet to the upside and may well still have more than 20,000x upside potential from here.. even though it could still take 50 to 200 years for bitcoin to reach the higher bounds of its upward price appreciation potential (even though some people proclaim that bitcoin is designed to pump forever, but it is more difficult to know if that kind of a design and incentives will continue after there is no more of a block reward.. and perhaps just hodlers continuing to lose access to their private keys and continuing to contribute towards ongoing price pressures on bitcoin, in comparison to any other asset (unless some competitors do end up coming onto the scene)..

It is hard to project out 100s of years, and it is even difficult enough to project out within the lifetimes of any currently living people .. which may be 50-100 years. .. but more realistically, may people are likely investing on shorter time-expectations and expecting payoffs in 5-10 years and sure many of them might feel more patience to be looking out 20-40 years.. and hoping that bitcoin would provide better returns than other investment options that are currently reasonably available to them.

 ;D ;D ;D
Best way to describe things, went through the list again to see if maybe some tropical paradise is there that is flooded by tourists despite the overall look of the country but I couldn't find one, so indeed 4 digits it is.


Of course, it's purely theoretical, nobody living on a minimum wage will ever be able to get a full Bitcoin unless he's forced to do so by some rich parents who will then write him a check of a few million. If some poor guy in India is clutching his pockets as much as he can he will still not be able to put more than 25% on the side even going through even more sacrifices, thus needing a few more lives to finally get one BTC.

The thing is I got tired of the normal stuff and tried something else, and, I have a better idea, I won't be able to make the data so it will be community driven but it will be way funnier, and from my point of view more interesting that talking all day about DCA, ETF when and such stuff.

Stompix,
That chart a good one.. but it'll way better if you solely made observations yourself... You seee, it has everything to do with the enlisted country's economy which isn't something anyone can predict with just a tip from uhhhhh,....from 'em CNN reporters or your cell phone either. Yes!! Maybe you'd need to visit Nigeria on a recreational purpose and, I believe you'll make alot changes to your chart on your WAY home..lol
Buh, ion even know why Turkmenistanians are living in such an adverse condition yet, Ashgabat looks like heaven on earth.. sometimes, I keep wondering...Thirdly, I wasn't seriously expecting the UK to be above US - I haven't done any research prior my posting buh I feel it's not supposed to that way :P

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

It's funny how you come across an interesting topic on a forum by accident... By the way, I can't find Switzerland anywhere? I bet it should be in the top five.



It's not the UK that's questionable; there are other unexpected rankings that might be more surprising. Who would have expected Slovenia to be ranked higher than the USA? That country didn't even exist 30 or so years ago, if I'm not mistaken. It was formed when the former communist Yugoslavia fell apart.

In my country there is nothing as minimum wage. Based on the average wage in my locality I'll make the calculation. This used to vary around other states. In my region it is something around $10. With the present price of Bitcoin it needs atleast 8 years to have one bitcoin in the wallet. Life is really hard, as the government isn't much focused on things that are primary requirements.

Switzerland doesn't have a minimum wage, neither did Germany till 2015.


I'm more curious why nobody mentioned Gabon ranking higher than China...


What do you want me to do, work for a year on minimum wage in each country?   ;D


looks like.....
You can Google hundreds of pictures from the 80s in eastern countries which show heaven on earth but in real life you could only see bread lines.
Besides the capital 1/6 of the country.

Not so plain to understand.  Do you mean that you don't know yourself country's minimum wage or your country doesn't have a minimum wage. If the later is what you meant, does your country have a government and what type of government do they operate.  Do not be offended by my question.

$10 is a way much low to be a minimum wage. If that is true, it means you must be a king in your country with your present campaign.


Yea, something like that. Especially for those countries you didn't include their data ;D

In Nigeria it could be more than 64 years because if you capture the data of minimum wages of some private sector employees especially private school teachers and factory workers one of the largest sector that has a good numbers of employees you will discovered that they earned less than the minimum wage which is N15,000 to N20,000 approximately $19 to $25, base on stompix analysis it will take more than 64 years to earn a Bitcoin probably around 77 years or more to reaffirm and validate @Upgrade00 analysis which is absolutely on point, thus it shows how economy of different countries differed in terms of opportunities and their economic policies, the developed countries fair better than the developing ones.

I think that your data might be a bit too simplistic. As I understand it, you are calculating the average income in each country into Bitcoin. But the problem here is that it is very well possible to make more Bitcoin even if your income is merely peanuts. In some poorer countries, you will find that electricity prices are quite low. One could mine a lot of Bitcoin and have more Bitcoin at the end of the year, than if one were to simply transform their earned fiat into BTC.

This is just proof, once again, that Bitcoin can make anyone financially independent.

But again, this might be very hard since people might be working from paycheck to paycheck and do not have the possibility to invest in mining. But for most people, a small mining rig is not a impossibly huge investment. Entire towns could work together to invest in Bitcoin.

Part of the criticism of OP throughout this thread has been that the data is more about minimum wage data provided the various countries, so the data is already inconsistent, but it also may well be skewed to the lowside.

So maybe your suggestion about average income in each country would be a way better way of attempting to be realistic - even though surely by attempting to focus on something like the lowest earners in any country (which probably is partly what minimum wage is supposed to reflect) there probably was some attempt to figure out how difficult it might be for the lowest wage earners in any country (and even around the world) to be able to even accumulate 1BTC..

or even lower amounts than 1 BTC since many of us realize that 1 BTC is likely a relatively high target anyhow in terms of normies being able to accumulate that amount of BTC. .but it has always been the case that the reasonable target levels have been going down further and further in terms of how many BTC any normal normie might reasonably expect to be able to accumulate without overdoing it... and recking himself....

Probably the ship for normies to reasonably and easily be able to accumulate 1BTC sailed in late 2020--- but surely it is a sliding scale, and like you suggested goldkingcoiner with persistence and perhaps various kinds of resourcefulness and creativity, there could still be various ways that normies and/or low income people might still be able to accumulate 1 BTC.. even though many of us likely expect (as has already been repeated several times in this thread) that with the passage of time, such feat of accumulating 1 whole BTC is likely going to be relegated to the richest of the society... especially if we are talking about measuring on the individual level....

And in regards to your example of pooling resources in order to be able to accumulate BTC, I suppose that merely goes to various ways that groups of people might figure out how to be innovative in their BTC accumulation efforts and hopefully not ending up experiencing too many rug pulls within such group-oriented processes - and such rug pulling events are not likely to stop, which sometimes does end up resulting in some folks being able to accumulate larger quantities of BTC for their own personal stash than they would have had otherwise been able to accomplish.. and some folks respect those people who get rich, whether by hook or by crook.. once they got the money  (BTC in this case) they may well be able to put on airs of being a respectable citizen of the community, with his/her 1 BTC while the rest of the community might have peanuts (I mean don't we call those satoshis?... get them while you can. and get as many as you can, without overdoing it, while you can.)

It's even going to get worse than the seemingly ominous scenario anyone would think you painted there in weeks to come except the government in power does something to disrupt the unabated inflation ravaging the country as it's. As we approach halving, the market goes into a FOMO state and panic buying commences; Bitcoin price begins to rally upward on a static minimum wage. If the situation as it's now remains unchanged in Nigeria, more people will be pushed into poverty in the next few months and the number of years they will have to work to get 1 Bitcoin will lengthen. Nigerians who work 8–5 type of job will be on both losing ends – inflation and Bull rally.

I don't know how you arrived at 12,153 days for Nigeria... maybe you would have used a different exchange rate. For clarity let us work out what the actual figure is for Nigeria.

$1 =850 Naira. Dollar to Naira exchange rate (https://www.ngnrates.com/market/exchange-rates/us-dollar-to-naira/black-market)
 
Minimum wage (https://mywage.ng/salary/minimum-wage-1) per month in Nigeria =30,000 Naira approx $36

Minimum wage per day =1,429 Naira approx $1.7

Bitcoin price in Naira= $29,200×850 = 24,820,000 Naira.

Therefore, number of days of work in Nigeria to earn 1 BTC is 24,820,000÷1429 = 17,374 which is about 47 years.

Let say if we are using the Government employment minimum wage is set to be at least 50,000 NGN for civil servant who teaches in primary school boiled down to cleaner and sometimes if we inputting the exchange, the bank rate might not be as same other trading platform exchange rate. Meaning bank official rate is bit lower while using exchange like Binance this could more higher.

Now let delve into the real factors; can we consider savings, let say a family expense which includes house rent, feeding, ect. at last we realized 10k NGN to save to buy a whole bitcoin, as I believe no one could receive a salary and uses all to buy bitcoin.
If we go by the minimum saving plan of 10k to 20k per month to buy a bitcoin with the rate of 1$ equivalent to 870 NGN current at Binance exchange, as I believe in my country anyone who want to buy bitcoin is either using through Binance p2p.

Minimum wage NGN20k with the dollar rate at 870=1
20,000 / 870 = $22.99
While minimum wage per day is 1,500 with at least 4 to 5 working hrs
1,500/870 = $1.72, then boiled down to bitcoin at $29,185 x 870= 25,390,950 NGN.

BTC/NGN 25,390,950/1500 = 16,927 days, equating it into years.
1 Year = 365
So therefore, 16,927 days / 365 = ~46.4 years

So for minimum savings of 20k per month it would took someone to have a whole bitcoin in ~46.4 years
If we go by 10k monthly savings we just multiple it by 2, that is to say it would take 92.8 years to have a bitcoin!
This is very poor, so before we could smell a bitcoin we might have meet our ancestors :-[

I know that there is always injustice and hierarchy in this world, but I still hope that many organizations and individuals can continue to work hard to create positive changes for society, impacting policy and the public, and ensure that the distribution of wealth is reduced and more equitable. While it won't be easy, with the awareness and efforts of all of us, we can make more progress in confronting this problem and building a better future for all people with fair and equal opportunity for all.

You've done some serious research on this, and I have to admit that I can see your point of view. What a novel idea, a minimum wage, huh? And you're totally right that the median wage should be included. Honestly, I dont know what to call us.

When it comes to the 1 BTC value, you're dead on - or, rather, right on the Bitcoin! Getting that lovely BTC hoard going is getting harder and harder, ain't it? The situation is as sticky as trying to catch a pig at a county fair.

You made an excellent point on the value of resource sharing. Im sure the carpet-pullers will enjoy that one, though. You cant trust those scoundrels if they were thrown in jail! But hey, more power to you if you get rich. Think of us small people as you relax in your moon base with a cocktail, okay?

Bitcoin is for everyone, so accumulate what you can, and sure the people in the more rich nations have advantages because they tend to have more discretionary income, yet at the same time, a decent number  of the people in the rich countries do not appreciate the need to accumulate bitcoin, so the people who are starting to accumulate today and recently are still likely going to be advantaged over those people who might not figure out that they should be (need to) accumulate bitcoin and they might not start accumulating bitcoin until 5-10 years down the road, and therefore those people who are starting today may well have a 5-10 year head start on other people who might start accumulating bitcoin later.

Think about it.

Those who started accumulating bitcoin 5-10 years ago (which would be mid-2013 to mid-2018, those folks are likely way advantaged over those people who are just starting to accumulate BTC today, and even those people who modestly started to accumulate bitcoin 5-10 years ago, likely have amounts of bitcoin that neither they nor their peers are going to easily be able to catch up to without some kind of major miracle.

Indeed, Bitcoin is inclusive and it is for everyone. It is accessible to people regardless whether you are living in developed or developing country.  However, as you said citizens of rich country have advantage of better earning opportunities to accumulate Bitcoin. Individuals residing in developing countries can also accumulate bitcoin by participating in various earning activities on platforms such as Bitcointalk. Moreover, they can set up small scale mining unit powered by solar panels, enabling them to make profit and participate in Bitcoin ecosystem.

Bitcoin empowers people worldwide to be a part of this financial revolution.

These numbers are terrifying! The post has actually opened my eyes to see the uneven distribution of wealth across the globe. This is also one of the reasons for the massive influx of people to developed economies. Imagine someone working for 46 years to own a Bitcoin, this is a frustrating situation.

One factor we are not putting into consideration is the fact that worker have needs and will most likely spend this earning without saving up to 50%. The post is an ideal situation where the worker saves all his earnings and this is not possible. Imagine when the working is saving only 50% of the income, that means it will take over 100 years of working to be able to own a Bitcoin.... that is if he will be alive to achieve that.

Finally, considering that the retirement age is also a factor as it is as low as 55 years in some countries. This means some people will never be able to own a Bitcoin in their entire 9/5 career. Well, anyone who fail to embrace the latest technologies like Bitcoin and others that can serve as passive income, he is already doomed.

Absolutely, maybe while removing the actual age but at least working from 25 years and just as you said some countries are 55 years. While my country is 60 years to their retirements, that means 25 years - 60 years = 35 years. That is to say we only had 35 years to own a bitcoin and even the 46 years can't be possibly achieved all less is a personal business where the person keeps using NGN 20k every month to buy fractions of bitcoin by then we can say such person would be able to have a bitcoin otherwise it could only ended up with just ~0.7BTC for 35 years of their civil service work. So badly ::)

I'm really grateful for living in a country where the cost of living and wages are more balanced. It's sad to see how difficult it can be for people in other places to even dream of owning a Bitcoin without spending decades working tirelessly.

Not my fault if we're talking about a currency that devaluates each day.
In the same link you've quoted the price is now 1$=880 Naira, that's 3.53% in 4 days and this alonet adds to your 17,374 days another 613 days of working.
 
So in just 4 days, you need to work two years extra because of currency fluctuations!
And this is another real problem besides the lousy wage, one that at least has given me a target of recreating the table exactly one year from now, I'm genuinely curious about who has made progress and who will need an extra life to get one BTC (in theory).


The harsh reality that some don't realize it's unfolding every day around them, and some try to deny it by going with those PPP numbers which in the case of gold and Bitcoin means nothing!
As for your other mention about spending habits, it's quite hard to compare when you have shit like :

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/08/07/Gsc4G.png
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/08/07/GsLNj.png

Very interesting list to see, yet in a way so depressing. Either way, I'm surprised seeing my country in the top 80 - I thought it would be way lower. I guess you don't see other peoples struggles until you stop looking at yours.

Since I'm living in a country where the cost of living is way higher than the minimal salary, it makes me think how much do I need to earn to have enough money to invest even a portion of a Bitcoin. I mean, if living on a minimal wage could be possible in any of these countries, you would need to have a 2 times higher income and the time you need would still be the same.

I would consider that minimum wage is not necessarily a "normal" wage, even though every country likely has people (and perhaps even a lot of people) who do actually work at those level of income.

I am not going to claim to know the answers for people, and if we are in a situation where we are having trouble getting work, and the ONLY kinds of work that we are able to get are minimum wage jobs, then likely we have to consider our situation and to consider if we are actually content with that kind of a way of earning income from our work.

I am not even going to deny that some of us likely come from pretty lucky/privileged positions in terms fo having likely had been able to earn quite a bit more than the minimum wages in our own countries...and then of course, compared to other countries of lower wages, then there can be additional feelings of privilege, even though it has already been pointed out that if we come from a country that has higher minimum wages, then it is likely that the cost of living is higher too..., but aspects of the infrastructure might be better as well.. .. a lot of  variables... and sure quite  a bit of luck in terms of what we were born into and whether or not there might be some ways to work towards and/or to achieve social mobility.. and if we have desires to attempt to work towards social mobility or to accept that:

"minimum wage" = "normal"

Another thing is that hardly anyone knew about bitcoin in 2009-2012-ish.. and so as the years past, more and more people learned about bitcoin, and then questions might have come up whether any of us might have heard about bitcoin, thought about bitcoin, and then decided to buy some, in case it were to catch on.

Now, it is starting to seem that bitcoin is catching on more and more and more, and maybe it is unrealistic to even consider trying to get a whole BTC.. and so work on getting as many satoshis as you can, and maybe if you are able to buy 100s of thousands of satoshis, and if you are able to continue to do that for 10 years or more, then you likely might end up finding yourself in a place that few if any of your country men would be able to achieve if they were to start buying into bitcoin 10 years down the road, and you got a head start over them of 10 years or more... .so the answer frequently tends to be to get the fuck started accumulating whatever you are able to accumulate, and don't get too worked up about relatively arbitrary accumulation targets that you may or may not be able to achieve anyhow.

several thousand satoshis is good, hundreds of thousands of satoshis is even better, millions of satoshis is even better than that - etc etc etc.. and there may or may not be an ability to achieve 100 million satoshis, but you are in a much closer position to achieving 100 million satoshis after you have already acquired millions of satoshis than you would be if you are starting from zero... which will likely continue to be the case in the future .. . since many of us likely realize that BTC prices are likely to go up forever, Laura.

Well yes, there are a lot of variables, different situations for everyone. Same as the OP, I just mentioned the somehow raw information in my thinking, without advanced numbers of factors and considering my own countries wealth system.
Of course we have to accept the fact that those are normalized figures as the countries wealth regulates the minimal wages regardless on is it realistic for a consumer or not. As individuals we should surely work on having a greater income if the conditions are favorable.

With the current price it does seem like an impossible mission to hold 1 Bitcoin or even to get close to that, but I like your thinking and I think it would be very motivating for everyone doubting the possibility of investing - like I do sometimes. Even though I earn about 60% more than minimal wage, I struggle to leave cash to invest - but your reply really motivated me to invest as much as I can. Even if it is currently just a few bucks, I will surely work on getting the head start that I need.

TBH, It's not 100% accurate about Bangladesh. It would take 3832 days (approx) for you to own a bitcoin here (if you save all your monthly income)

I was searching for Nigeria and finally I saw it but no data is inserted there. And currently in Nigeria the minimum wage is #30,000 which is equivalent to $38 and the inflation rate is much more higher than the minimum wage in the country so hunger is the talk of the day. A bag of rice is sold #40,000 ($50) and minimum wage is $38 so when the monthly salary his received by the workers they would used it to pay debt. Minimum wage in some country  is very small that the workers are not using it to do any better things in their lives but to pay debt and feeding.

Well, I hope that you do figure out some kind of a way to figure out some kind of a reasonable balance that works for your in order that you are able to be as aggressive that you are able to be in terms of your bitcoin investment, but at the same time, not being so aggressive that you are not watching out for your own monthly expenses, including having some emergency funds available, because you should want to avoid dipping into your bitcoin investment, presuming that you start to build a BTC investment portfolio.

There are people who work their whole lives and never are able to get to fuck you status or even to a kind of comfortable ability to retire, and even if bitcoin does not completely bring you to fuck you status, it could end up giving you options to be able to supplement your income (and of course, there are no guarantees that bitcoin is going to perform better than any other investment options that are available to you). 

By the way.. think about it.  Even if you are able to put away 10% of your yearly income (and you believe that your yearly income is enough for you to live upon), it is going to take you right around 10 years to be able to put away a whole year's income.. and for sure, you are going to want anything that you invest into to be able to hold its value decently well, and hopefully even better than other options (alternatives) that you might have available. 

No one can guarantee that bitcoin will perform better, than options that you currently have available, but surely many folks do consider bitcoin to be amongst the best of asymmetric bets to the upside (if not the best).. so surely it could be helpful to figure out ways to invest into it.. and even perhaps increase your income in order that you can invest into it earlier.. and then hopefully all of that ends up paying off.. but you can also continue to learn about bitcoin and to study it and to maybe tweak some of your BTC accumulation and BTC maintenance strategies along the way.. while you continue to study it, and if you are ONLY putting $10 per week into bitcoin, you still might be better off then someone who had chosen not to invest into bitcoin... and yeah, even your options to avoid fees, (or to lessen fees) or ways that you choose to store your BTC so that you don't lose them, may well change over time, too.

even if a US min wage is $10, meaning a month(160 hours) is $1600 meaning 0.05479452
even if 3rdWLD min wage is $0.10, meaning a month(160 hours) is $16 meaning 0.00054794

if bitcoin 4x in a couple years both do not get 4x returns

this is because with a average 6800sat ($2 today. $8 later in tx fee)
3rdWLD withdraws only 0.00047994 from a cex
and then later deposits into a CEX 0.00041194
meaning 4x price would be $48 (25% loss due to fees of ~6800sat x2) instead of ~$64 expectation

where as US withdraws 0.05472652 from a cex
and then later deposits into a CEX 0.05465852
meaning 4x price would be $6384 (0.25% loss due to fees of ~6800sat x2) instead of ~$6400 expectation

Even as no one can guarantee if Bitcoin is the best option for an investment but the masses still choose Bitcoin investment over all other options (altcoins) and if am to be specific, I myself will probably choose investing in Bitcoin than any other coins out there even if Bitcoin investment is something that has to do with patience and proper planning. Some folks actually choose investing in other coins just because of the high pump volume that most of these coins potray but some of these coins are just been pumped by their creator and most of them can can get your investment drained up when they start experience big dip because their capabilities to recover is at the very minimal where as Bitcoin is just quite the opposite.

For sure I was not even thinking about shitcoins as alternative investments, when I mentioned alternative investments I was thinking more in terms of traditional investments that people have such as property, equities, bonds or other cash equivalents, commodities, and so it is a pretty fucking BIG distraction if a lot of shitcoiners (maybe even you included) to be even going down the road to thinking that shitcoins are something that anyone should be investing into as if they were really any kind of a reasonable alternative to bitcoin.   Bitcoin is the leader of the space, so their is not need to invest into anything that is largely already dependent upon the BTC price, so why add more risk to anything that anyone does, so if someone is already having difficulties figuring out if they are even able to invest $10 per week into something or anything, then why the fuck would they even consider diluting that investment into shitcoins.

Focus on bitcoin first, it is not like they have a lot of money in the first place, and then maybe once they start to get  to the point of having 1/2 of a year or even a whole years income saved up, then maybe at that point, if they are still interested in fucking around with shitcoins or gambling with their investment portfolio, at least they can consider those kinds of possibilities based on their having had built up an investment portfolio.


Yes, people can do whatever they like, and they get easily distracted into nonsense and gambling and perhaps believing that they are investing when they are gambling with shitcoins.  So yeah, if part of the topic of this thread is already describing situations in which normal (or poor or minimum wage) people are having troubles gathering enough of an income to invest into anything, then it seems way more important and practical to be focusing on their investment into something like bitcoin, rather than potentially diluting their investment, if they feel that they want to get distracted into nonsense and crap, and even though people do those kinds of things, it seems a bit of a distraction to be suggesting that I was even thinking about shitcoins in terms of what poor people should be considering - even though we know that shticoin pumpers and scammers have a lot of talking points to take advantage of the ignorances of people.. and even pray upon some of their desperations and desires to get rich quick or to get themselves out of their shitty financial circumstances.

I'm not sure I understood the numbers.
For instance, for Luxemburg, it says 341. What does this mean? Is it that in less than a year, you can buy a Bitcoin if you invest all your minimum wage in Bitcoin? Or are there other figures uner the hood that I'm missing?

When it comes to investing, and also when it comes to Bitcoin investing, having a balance, a true and reasonable and genuine balance, that works for you, yes for you, is pivotal, absolutely pivotal.

In terms of investments, including but not only limited to Bitcoin, you should never and definitely never overlook your monthly expenses, not even, or especially, emergency funds, for these are indeed necessary, quite necessary indeed. There are people, indeed many people, who never reach that so-called "fuck you status," which is certainly a status that many might wish for, and Bitcoin may, perhaps likely may, provide that for you, maybe.

Bitcoin might not be the golden ticket, but it might be something else entirely, perhaps a silver ticket, which could still be valuable, and perhaps even more so than something else, like other investment options. Yes, 10% of yearly income, maybe even 11%, could lead to something bigger, like a whole year's income in about 10 years, perhaps 9, or maybe 11.

Of course, no matter the income there must be a balance between the money I need and the money I can invest.
For me personally, the biggest problem is that my income isn't a constant since I am self-employed (I own a startup business), so my income depends on how well did the company do last month - I could be on minimal wage or 2x the minimal wage sometimes (it can be stable, but a range always exists). That's also a big factor in investing, situations like mine can make a difference regardless of where your country is on the OP's list for an example.

Even if it isn't always smart, I'm very optimistic about Bitcoin and probably everyone else here should be. And I think it could help everyone's financial situation, even on the lower spectrum of the wealth table.
To not go much off topic, I think Bitcoin has a bright future and everyone that has the possibility to invest any amount from their income should do it. Like the saying, the best time to start is 10 years ago or right now (even with the smallest contribution you can give).

The more unstable/uncertain your income and your various expenses, then the more likely that you have to be careful in how much you might invest into BTC during each monthly period, but the mere fact that your income and/or expenses are erratic should not necessarily stop you from regularly investing, even if you might have some ups and downs in the amounts that you invest during any particular monthly period based on the erratic nature of your cashflow and/or expenses. 

It seems also that if your income/expenses are erratic, then you would need to maintain a larger emergency fund (or maybe you just might call it a cashflow stabilizing fund or a slush fund.. If you already know that your cashflow and/or expenses are erratic, then those shortages in discretionary cash would be part of the regular expectations, and not "emergencies."..  There are some people who contribute to their own emergencies by failing/refusing to adequately maintain sufficient levels of a cushion (or slush fund) that would account for variance in their discretionary cashflow.

Sorry to ask about this, sometimes when we talk of investment as the case may be it should be that is from part of our monthly income and yes this is absolutely true but what in a way we have one and two to three jobs do you advise putting either one to two portion into investment like buying bitcoin to hold?

I know this is the most difficult side to give some accurate answer but however it should depends on individuals, but wanting to hear from your side as a mentor what do you plead about this scenario as I believe any one who is directly involving in your discussion is gaining a great knowledge. Sometimes its very hard to maintain sufficient of cash flow maybe one can't predicts how often the job could last and if not a guaranteed work how could they manage to fill up the space or to execute their plans, and of which they had to pend for the main time and till the secured another job then continues their investment per say?

Sometimes in discussion like this it becomes an eyes opener to we that are upcoming, because knowledge is what we need to keep sustaining us especially those that are directly associated to this forum has a very big privilege to interact with people that are well known in this platform, despite we can't directly seat to speak with them we believe distance is not a barrier and through writing the communication is speedily passing through to everyone who comes across this thread and to this board. And again please do not find my question very nasty or silly in your sight as I believe this is the only way I can learn from you.

You still need to look at all three of the income sources as a kind of package, and it is probably best to ONLY count on the most conservative angle of the income.. and the extent to which you create cushions out of the extra, might mean that you need to make sure that your cushion is adequately sufficient before you buy BTC with it (or engage in any other kinds of investments in which you don't want to be a forced seller at a time that is anything other than your own complete choosing).

Maybe an example would be good... and maybe let's say that your income can range anywhere between $300 and $1.2k per month, and you can look back historically at your income streams (and yeah, maybe some of the jobs are new, so you are not even exactly sure how well the history reflects what you are likely to make).

If you need $500 per month to live and to cover your various expenses, and you have pretty high confidence that you usually are able to bring in close to $600, you should still probably plan on the possibility that ONLY $300 might come in for that month, and maybe at minimum you have to have $1,200 in your reserve fund (which would be to cover the $200 per month difference of what you need and what you expect to come in), and more realistically your reserve fund should likely have enough to cover all of your living expenses for 6 months, which would be $3k.

So, maybe you start to buy BTC ONLY after you make sure that your reserve fund is sufficiently covered, and sure people will frequently be able to get away with living on the edges, and maybe they do not assure that their whole 6 months reserves are covered.. and also your 6 months reserve might not need to be in cash, you might have 2 or 3 months in cash and then another 3-4 months in some other kind of an asset that you know to be very liquid (hopefully not your bitcoin).

We know that people take a lot of risks in regards to various ways that they project out their cashflows, and they end up investing more than they are able to afford, and frequently emergencies (or shortages in cashflow can last way longer than 6 months, and maybe even last a year or two... so the extent to which you are able to project out your cashflows can be helpful in terms of figuring out various places in the future that you anticipate shortages in cashflow, and surely you have to be more specific about your cashflow projections when they are within that month or even 2-3 months into the future as compared with anticipated cashflows that might be 1-2 years out.

Personally, I use various Excel spreadsheets to project out cashflows, and I know that when I was younger my cashflows were way less complex, and of course, you can either create various versions of the Excel spreadsheet and you can save various drafts or even to rename your current working versions so that you end up retaining several copies that you are able to look up if you want to compare how you might have had been accounting for things at earlier dates.  Sometimes your formulas and methods will change over the years, so it might be difficult to look back at earlier versions and see the comparisons, but you still might be able to get some ideas of the important parts, even if your formulas and layout and even what you are tracking might end up changing with the passage of time.


Yes, if you have possibilities of some or all of your income sources completely drying up, then you likely need to hold at least a decent amount of your minimum living expenses in reserve, and you should be attempting to prepare for the worse case scenarios to play out, and so you are able to invest once your reserves are sufficiently full, and like I mentioned, people do sometimes take risks in regards to NOT having their cashflows clear and/or not having enough reserves, but you are going to get royally fucked if you do not have enough of a cushion and your cashflows dry up and you are not able to somehow recover that cashflow with substitute work or whatever you might have thought would have had been your insufficient back-up plan.

I recall that I had a period in 2015 that I had a variety of extra expenses and some drying up of cashflow, so there were several months that I was not able to buy BTC (right during the better buying periods), and I recall that once my reserves started to get replenished by restoration of some of the cashflows and adjustment of the expenses, I would then buy BTC with any extra cashflow that came in.  So if $20 extra came in, then I would buy $10 worth of BTC and I would put the other $10 into my reserves, and then keep doing that through the whole month (or whatever period of time that I was using) and then reassess at the end of that period regarding whether any more of that extra income could be used to bitcoin, and it would usually be pretty clear regarding where I needed to put that money, and usually I was not able to buy bitcoin with it because my 50/50 allocation of the "extra cashflow" tended to be a pretty fair estimation regarding how much of that "extra cashflow" that I could spend on BTC.  

And, the main reason that I knew that money coming in was "extra cashflow" is because I had already projected out my various other cashflows, expenses, and the various cash cushions that I had already put in place and made sure that those amounts were adequate for the upcoming 6 months or so.. and even at that time (in 2015) I was projecting out 2 years in advance - even while knowing that the most important period of analysis frequently was to make sure that 1-3 months were sufficiently good and covered in order that I would not be stressing my self about making sure that everything was paid in the short-term... but that still does not necessarily mean that the longer term was sufficiently covered or secured beyond projecting out and having some expectations in place that were likely including the most likely accounting of the most conservative (or worse case) scenarios but also having some plans in place if better case (or even best case) scenarios ended up playing out.  

From my perspective, it seems to almost always be the case that preparations are still best done based on worser case scenarios rather than upon best case scenarios... and if the better case scenarios end up playing out there is a plan for that, even if they were not expected to need to happen in order to still be sufficiently comfortable and with fewer stresses.. and you should still be able to invest during these periods, even if you might have to bring your amounts down.. or maybe ONLY invest with the extra cash that comes in after accounting for your various expenses.


I don't mind sharing various ideas that I might have (and hopefully we have not deviated too much from the topic of this thread - even though we likely realize that it can be more difficult for people to invest into bitcoin or anything else when they might barely be making enough money to even pay for their basic monthly expenses), and other forum members will share their ideas, and with the passage of time, we are learning from each other and also learning from our own presentations of ideas.

Surely you likely realize that many of the better ways of learning have to do with putting ideas into practice, and so you can have back and forth with yourself and also back and forth with forum members (like me and others), and I have been projecting out my cashflows on paper for quite a bit of time (several years) before I started using Excel, and so you can project your cashflows out on paper, even though there may be a lot more redundancies.. or maybe you have sheets that reflect each month, and then you just keep building on those sheets.

Another thing that you can do, is that you can invest into bitcoin in a very conservative and modest way, and while you are figuring out various specifics (including perhaps building up your emergency fund, and coming to realistic realizations/expectations regarding the certainty of your various cashflows and expenses), you are going to be able to be more aggressive with your bitcoin investment once you make sure that you have your emergency funds sufficiently in place and in order, and after you have figured out various aspects of your cashflow and/or expenses.

This might be a good time to repeat what the various individual considerations should be...:

Quoting myself (I tend to use various formulations of these considerations):

Thank you for your indepth explanation as I believed that a great knowledge has been passed across, this doesn't limited to me but openly shared across for everyone to read and understand, and off course those who had the skill and passion of reading may definitely derived something from this great impartation as I believe most of the knowledge in no way can be found on article or youtube video.

Sincerely speaking I love steps of 50/50 buying strategies as that is the best and important way to keep stacking bitcoin and from my experience based on your explanation 2015 was actually a pretty cool time for one to had utilized the chances of accumulation and stacking. Apparently, 5 years time to come we could also say 2022, 23 where also a better time to buy and accumulates some volume of bitcoin but what I noticed mostly across is that the fear of uncertainty (they aren't futuristic) about the great effect of what it would likely turned out to be.

Most times this knowledge are being gotten to reshape and sharpen our ways of thinking and how we could see the future of where we are going or driving to because, if not hearing from an experience people like you we wouldn't know where to positioned ourselves and look at our standing ( as it would be very hard to make an adjustment whenever the time seems to be strong to retuned  back to the normal arms, as I believe time waits for no one and even if there where time, there may not be chance to meet with people that could give them what they needs to know just as you did).

And, aside that what we know is what we know and that keeps us moving and even if we think is too late for us to make adjustments to correct the hand of time let it be that.. people always arrived at the place they needed in their investment journey by take the bold steps or do I say risk because investment itself is a risk and off course this is true. Anyone who is out for investment should be able to connotes that all investment aren't risk free and hence, we should be able to cater for it because only risking oneself leads us to a successful investment.

I take typically example from you, then you still did maneuver to make sure you never missed your track and line of train as because you knew that something great would definitely be unveiled or unmasked from your journey so far and even as that you weren't in any way or any form being much desperate to have them sold for some muscle of dollars, and that is why we much learn to have patients and to always put our lights on into try to visualize our future, dreams and goals.

Thank you and love your heart felt explanation and in replication to your experience as well, because it's said when an experience people or teacher is teaching they teaches from their in-depth experience based on their personal encounter and or courage they had to go through the process, along the line vast of knowledge are being gotten.

Sure maybe it seems like 2015 was a great time because we can see how it played out afterwards, but at the time, there were still needs to NOT overinvest, and to attempt to be sufficiently aggressive within some kind of a view of staying in the investment, but many people were telling me to sell or to give up or at least to stop buying during that period, and it ends up that they really did not know what they were talking about, and it is not that I actually knew what was going to happen, but I had a pretty good sense that even though I was investing somewhat aggressively, I was not investing more than I could afford to lose because I still had my expenses covered and I also had other non-bitcoin investments that I was tempted to put into bitcoin, but I had decided to just let those other investments ride... and just to keep doing what I was doing, which was buying BTC when I could with a certain amount of extra cashflow as it was coming in.

Now, if we consider 2022, 2023, then maybe we can see that those years look similar on the charts, and we cannot know whether 5-10 years or more that we are going to get substantial benefits from investing into bitcoin in 2022 and 2023, but we can still attempt to put a reasonable amount into BTC and maybe even attempt to be aggressive with our investment into BTC without becoming so overly aggressive that we end up recking ourselves if the market either turns against us or does not go up as much as we had hoped it to go up.



I think that the point here is just to act rather than to do nothing, and surely there are still a lot of nocoiners and lowcoiners who are still failing/refusing to buy a sufficient/adequate quantity to prepare in case bitcoin goes up.. and yeah, it is not guaranteed that it will go up, but those people who do not buy any bitcoin or they are overly whimpy in their bitcoin investment, then they may well end up failing to receive profits (and options) further down the road, whether it is 5-10 years or some other later time period that it may well become impossible to even to purchase bitcoin in the 5 digits, let alone for under $30k.. but yeah, no one really knows, either.


I still did not really know anything.. but I thought that it was a good idea to invest, even if it did not go up in value, I thought it was a good investment, but I never thought that it was guaranteed. and probably in the whole scheme of things, bitcoin is doing better today than I would have even imagined in 2014/2015/2016.  Sure there were bullish scenarios, but they still might not have had really high odds of playing out.


It is true that if you go through various experiences, and you are attempting to actively engage (and this forum is one of the ways to continue to attempt to actively engage - apart from the actual ongoing investing into BTC too), then the variety of experiences do end up sinking in more deeply.. because there will be several personal stories along the way, and some of the stories are not even good.. some mistakes had been made, and maybe even some of the stories are painful to tell, too.. even though maybe also there can be some sense of luck and learning along the way, and also maybe taking additional safeguards to protect private keys.. it can be an ongoing learning process to hold bitcoin... and even some of the ways that people recommend security is still a work in progress, since there are a variety of ways to hold your bitcoin, so it may well not even be easy for someone active in forums like this, and not easy for grandma either..

Fortunately in my case, my expenses are not as volatile or erratic as you say, so I pretty much know in advance what are my fixed costs of living. Of course, there are always variables and I take them into account so I do leave emergency funds when I can. Since I am organized, I am planning to invest every month at least - with any amount available.

On another note, problems for investors could be inflation as well. My country is in inflation but the government pretty much hides it and holds the currency artificially stable while the prices of pretty much everything goes up. It isn't as bad as some countries (that have a much greater inflation trend and their currency is going to be worth nothing), but it is enough to not exactly know what are you on for the next month or until your next pay date.

Well, I think that part of my point was to attempt to account for all the ways that variability can take place in the discretionary income that you would have left to invest into bitcoin or into any other investment, and of course here we are talking about bitcoin, and surely if you recognize that your local currency is not holding its value very well, then those kinds of calculations are likely going to affect how much cashflow that you believe that you are going to need when you are projecting out your expected income versus your expected expenses.. which would then cause you to make a judgement regarding how much you have left and is that amount sufficiently extra in order that you are not going to need it later, and if you come to that judgement that it is actually extra money, then you can invest that into bitcoin.

And, sure, I am already conceding that it is quite probable that the vast majority of normies do not engage in the kinds of calculations that I am suggesting (even when the start to invest into bitcoin), so they likely are engaging in some level of gambling, but they are likely going to be in a better position if they actually engage in a bit of a rigorous assessment in order to lessen and/or minimize the amount of risks that they are taking by making sure that their cashflow numbers add up, and once you build up a system in which you actually have a cash cushion that is projected out based on relatively conservative accounting of what are your expected incoming cashflow and your outgoing expenses, then you likely can get better assessments about how aggressive you can be in your bitcoin investing without crossing over the line into overly aggressive gambling.. and if you can see that the government is telling you that inflation is likely going to be 10% for the next 12 months, but you can already see that it is more likely going to be 20%, then you better be relying on your own judgement rather than relying on the government is not lying to you, this time (and I am not even anti-government but frequently incumbent officials have incentives to make things seem rosier than they actually are).

I agree with you to a large proportion because this scenario have played out in my financial life and bitcoin accumulations,  so that I set aside I higher percentage of my income into Bitcoin accumulation all through out 2021-2022 and in early 2023 I began to diversify into some other assets such as properties so as to create a none stop cash flow.

There are some time I set above 50% of my income into Bitcoin accumulation some where around 2022 and I intend to keep those Bitcoin for the long term but also making use of the volitilities to increase my profits merging.

E.g selling all the way up and buying all the way down,  but much also we have to realize and do risk assessment because such DCA approach have high risk.

You seem to be describing something a bit different from what I started with, and that is the kind of grappling that anyone might have to do when they are trying to figure out the quantity of money that they are able to put into bitcoin without necessarily running the risk of overdoing it or even underdoing it because they had not sufficiently calculated their cashflows.   

So one thing is picking out how much to invest, and surely if you had been sometimes using up to 50% of your cashflow, then either the other 50% would have had to cover your monthly expenses or you might have had some kind of another money fund (such as extra or reserves) that you could draw upon in order to invest that amount.

And for sure one of the complications of bitcoin might have to do with how it's price could potentially rise really fast and then you might feel that you are overallocated into it, and maybe especially if you had not had any other investments, and perhaps in those kinds of circumstances it might start to feel prudent to diversify some of the value into other assets - and whether you sell from you BTC stash to accomplish such other investments or you merely divert your cashflow into those other investments that you would like to add are not always easy decisions.   

One of the difficult aspects of your own description of what you had been doing (and have done) is that if you had been investing fairly aggressively into bitcoin in 2021 and 2022, then you may well have ended up doing some front-loading of your investment attempts in the beginning, which may well have caused you to have had a decent amount of higher cost BTC in your portfolio, and so even if the BTC price came down a lot through most of 2022, especially starting in May 2022, you still may not have had been able to make up for your earlier higher cost investments, unless it happens to be the cased that you were less aggressive in 2021 and you ended up being lucky and able to be more aggressive after May of 2022 - and that just does not sound like a very plausible or likely scenario, which is part of the reason that I am suggesting that you would have had been lucky if the way that you ended up investing into bitcoin would have caused such a result that is contrary to what most enthusiastic newbies would have had been doing or even feeling inclined to do.

And another thing is that with such a short investment time horizon, it does not even seem reasonable and/or prudent to be diversifying out of bitcoin when bitcoin has not even appreciated that much and it may well even be the case that your BTC are in the negative or barely reaching break-even values in light of how much you would have had invested into BTC, perhaps over the past 2.5 years or so... unless you started earlier than that.. and of course, with our current BTC price scenario, it seems that those who were building their BTC holdings prior to 2021 (and who may had largely built most of the size of their BTC holdings prior to 2021) are likely in a much more comfortable place right now relative to those who started in 2021 or thereafter (perhaps absent those who started in around November 2022.. and surely again a seemingly kind of minority group.. and it would not even seem to be prudent for those who started since November 2022 to really have had enough time in the market to be exercising diversification of their holdings, yet).

In the end, surely people have to figure out how to do what they want and to have some kind of ideas about what they are doing and why they are doing it, so even though I have frequently said that diversification for the mere sake of diversity does not tend to be a good plan, especially for beginner investors, but surely once their investment size (whether assets within it have significantly appreciated or not) starts to grow to becomes a significant amount of their overall wealth.. maybe initially measuring from the size of their annual income.. so getting into the 30%-50% or even into the 1x to 2x sizes of their annual income, then it may well start to feel somewhat compelling (and even justifiable) to start to figure out ways to diversify the holdings, whether there are choices to sell some existing assets or perhaps the more common (and practical approach.. but these are still not absolutes because lump summing becomes and option for those who have built their investment portfolio) to start to divert new money into the new areas in which some exposure is desired.. and then start to build exposure to the new areas... and perhaps still keeping in mind that maybe the old area may still need some injections of new capital from time to time too so perhaps the value of each of the asset classes continue to grow and are monitored along the way.

I did not see italy on the list?

Allow me to doubt that the minimum wage in Bangladesh is ~$230 a month.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/bangladesh-workers-not-letting-minimum-210937213.html



Nr 120! 12,153 Days.


Exactly!


Italy has no mandatory minimum wage.

In my country I would need about 36 months (3 years) to be 1 Bitcoin holder. And not even taking into account the price variation in those 3 years. Because I believe that in 3 years, the price will be quite higher than now.

Thanks. Add it to what you have provided, in some States in Nigeria, working days have been reduced to 3 days a week base on the inflation of transportation which is caused by the hike of fuel pump price in the country.

Actually, it is very difficult to determine how long it will take to get 1 bitcoin, because we do not know how it will behave in the upcoming bull market, which may already be underway. If it happens that bitcoin is worth more than 100k or even more, then the goal of 1 bitcoin for most ordinary people bitcoin will become unattainable, since they are already burdened with mortgages to pay off their homes, or whatever, for decades.

Of course, but if we want to answer the OP quesiton, we need to start with some assumptions, otherwise, it doesn't even make sense to try to predict whatever about Bitcoin.
That's why I said that I wasn't taking into account the price variation. Many other factors could be taken into account, but we would reach a point where no prediction could be done whatsoever!

My father used to do trades absolutely every day for more than 10 years, the only time he was resting was winter because it was impossible to work during very cold temperatures. Gladly that was a long time ago.
Probably a lot of Americans, Japanese and Chinese work almost 30 days out of 30 because of their working culture. Europeans prefer to have a good work-life balance and get slightly paid less but if we compare our healthcare to American healthcare, probably we work less and get paid more :D

Not only Switzerland but as far as I know there is no official minimum wage in Austria, Italy, Denmark, Finland and Sweden but somehow Austria is in your list. I'm sure there is no statutory minimum wage in Austria but to be honest, salaries in Vienna are higher than in many other countries.
Also, salaries in Nordic countries are one of the highest despite the fact that there is no official minimum wage.

I think it's more about people realizing that in some nations there are enough people to work in all jobs. When you have a lot more, it becomes a mandator thing. Think of it like this, if you end up working in a nation with 10 million workers and 10.5 million jobs, that means it's hard to stay unemployed, you will find a job, and if they pay you very little then you can quit and find another job.

But, if you work in a nation where there are 10 million jobs but 20 million people, then they can fire you, and pay you very little and you can't quit because you can't find another job. This is why there are some nations with no minimum wage, and there are nations with a minimum wage, that's the difference between them for sure.

Bumping this as I just saw a discussion about the same thing and I wondered how much the price jump has changed those figures.
So I've added the new numbers for a price of 47500 per coin and when I look at the bottom of the list things got ridiculous.

Excluding Venezuela which is a league of it's own:
Bangladesh added nearly 30 000 days, so about 82 years.
India got an extra 9000 and a bit so about 25 years.
The worst in Europe, Moldova got away with just 9 extra years of work.
Only 15 country managed to keep the extra work under a year.