Bitcoin Forum

If in the world there are about 8 million people, each of whom will accumulate 2.625 Bitcoins in a cold wallet and never sell them, then the price of Bitcoin could skyrocket to infinity. These individuals, who have gone through natural selection and acquired 2.625 Bitcoins on the market, could unite, for example, in a religious Order, and gain the chance to change the world order. This trend is already emerging today. Pay attention to how more and more politicians and officials from different countries are being influenced by the idea of Bitcoin and becoming holders themselves.

You must understand that all liquidations of your margin positions, all losses in the market on shitcoins – these are necessary dues to become a plebeian. Then you must work diligently to accumulate 2.625 Bitcoins on the market, whatever the cost may be. When an army of approximately 8 million plebeians is assembled, you will always begin to win. By uniting in an army or an Order and following a common strategy and purpose, the plebeians' education, work experience, skills, religion, personal qualities, etc., will no longer matter. Only in this way can you defeat the selected elite with higher IQ, better education, more work experience, superior connections, and more capital than you... And you have no other choice; either join the army of plebeians or you and all your future generations will be slaves... Even if you change your names and surnames to the right ones, you will never be admitted to Yale, MIT, Berkeley, or Stanford, believe me. Our army of approximately 8 million plebeians will be invincible. Because you can't kill what is already dead.

if no one sells a single bitcoin because everyone never sells... then there is no market. no price

trying to create a mass pump and dump group never lasts. what you need to learn is proper economics of bitcoin

imagine the underlying most efficient mining costs as the below market floor(foundation) and above that is the speculative market. if you want to aid bitcoins market then the underlying foundations of the market need to be pushed up to then have a better speculative market ontop, a market that people can then openly trade on at higher prices. thus not need any scheming pump and dump army. but instead a healthy market with healthy foundations getting stronger

In these market conditions, such a religious Order could potentially exert significant influence over the price, the market, and all cryptocurrency exchanges.

again if no one is selling . ill repeat..  IF NO ONE IS SELLING.. there is no market nor price
imagine a fruit stall with no fruit to sell.. then realise there is no market stall, its just an empty table and a guy twiddling his thumbs not doing anything all day,week,year

nothing to sell =no market

then when the pump and dump group get permission to finally sell.. then you will just see the market crash. with everyone trying to cash out at once.

learn the economics. learn how things actually work and other ways to help the market prosper.. because your outdated and flawed vision of a massive pump and dump group is not the method, i explained a better method in last post

It reminds me of saying, why don't we collect 10 dollars from each individual and give it to a group of people and thus a part of the poor becomes rich, or why the government does not distribute the gross national income to individuals and get 1000 dollars for each individual.

If we say that the average income in most countries is $3,000 per month and many countries are below this line, you will find that the chance that millions of people will buy 2 bitcoins is slim. if people stop selling, it is like the tokens, which have a price of 30,000 dollars, and you cannot sell them.

The statement "if no one is selling, there is no market nor price" is not entirely accurate. While it is true that for any trade to occur, there needs to be a buyer and a seller, the absence of sellers alone does not necessarily mean there is no market or price for a particular asset.

In a hypothetical scenario where no one is currently selling a specific asset, but there are willing buyers, the market still exists, and the price would be determined by the last transaction that took place.

For example, you want to use your house for refinancing. How will the bank determine its price? After all, you haven't sold it.

the market price is done by the last order.. but if there has not been a last order for a long time then the price has remained at that last order amount. meaning it wont go up. because no one is triggering new orders to set new prices.

it doesnt matter how many buyers there are. if there are no sellers then there is no market

it uses 'comps' of other house sellers.. but if there is no one selling any real estate.. then there is no sells to compare or set market prices

EG if no one sells any real estate for the last 3 years. then the market comps is stuck at the 2020 level.. which is much lower then the open market price now (which in reality has seen sells happen.. )

yep no sells= no market

take another read of my first post in this topic after the first sentence you quoted for a better understanding of the economics and a healthier way to grow the market

So, the bank will use the price of the last sell of a house in your area. However, this sale could have happened a month or six months ago. In other words, it will use the last market price.

but the 'dont sell' isnt helping make new prices grow. it just stagnates the price to remain at whatever the price was a month, six month or 3 years ago, (whenever the market STOPPED)

by having no market growth.. refinancing becomes meaningless because you are not unlocking any excess equity. you are just causing yourself to double your debt with no benefit.

refinancing only works if the market has grown since the last sell. where you unlock the new higher amount to re invest in certain things.

There are more than 50 million dollar millionaires in the world

Well, first of all, I didn't say that the free supply of Bitcoin would be zero. Let's assume the free supply will be one Bitcoin. Alternatively, the price of Bitcoin will be determined in the derivatives market. For instance, just like oil; it's not physically traded in barrels in the order book.

If 8 million people hold all the available bitcoins and no one is here to use it, everyone will ignore bitcoin and use different cryptocurrency. I don't understand why do you think that bitcoin will skyrocket if we hold each satoshi.
Hundreds of millions of people hold one or two houses but that doesn't mean the cost of house has infinitely skyrocketed. But house is a different example, you absolutely need it in your life while bitcoin can easily be replaced with another clone altcoin or with a different one.
Also, the world order isn't established around bitcoin, it's a whole different scenario. World order is not a car part to change so simply and easily. The only one who can change the world order is the one who is in charge of world order.

Well, that's a valid point. However, your example with houses is not accurate - you can build as many houses as you want and wherever you want. A house depreciates and loses value over a distance of, say, 40 or 50 years or may require repairs.

The only assets with limited supply today are land and Bitcoin. And both land and Bitcoin have their advantages. For example, if a military conflict starts on your land, you may lose it or, at the very least, won't be able to use it.


With this statement, I also disagree. For example, let's consider the Internet network. Currently, all IPv4 addresses have their owners (~1 million (AS) owners over the World), and the cost of an IPv4 address exceeds $40, but people are not eager to adopt free IPv6 addresses. What do you think is the reason?

Why your Internet address is IPv4? https://whatismyipaddress.com/

The OP reads like great material for a movie or a book - a fantasy sci-fi one! why 8 million
with BTC2.625? it sounds like something plucked out of thin air, anyway I already have
some, some have less than 1 others have thousands.....

There are a lot of "if's"

Thankfully its humans who own and trade Bitcoin and humans experience different
scenarios throughout life including financial ones which means they are t always able
to hold onto their assets, or even want to!

This could indeed be science fiction if 98% of people were rational. However, 98% of people are fools who believe in the resurrection of a rabbi who died over two thousand years ago or that 72 virgins await them in paradise. My idea is to create, let's say, a Bitcoin foundation or religious Order 2.625 exclusively for the Top 0.1% humans - that is, up to 8 million rational individuals who can exploit the stupidity of the 98% (just as all religions have done for the last 2000 years).

What did you smoke OP?
1. Bitcoin is not religion.
2. Bitcoin alone won't change world order.
3. Why 2.625BTC specifically?
4. Only few people would join this "foundation", so i expect repeat of Silver Thursday event.

Bitcoin is not religion for sure. But...

Money is a symbiosis of information and faith.
To understand the nature of money, you need profound knowledge of mathematics (especially applied areas like "Game Theory") and equally deep knowledge of religious history. I won't burden the chat with mathematical formulas, so let's focus on the history of religions.

Many researchers believe that the concept of monotheism is relative, and this idea is a result of the gradual development from genotheism (a state of religious consciousness where individual deities lack specificity and stability, and each can replace all others) to monolatry (a system of beliefs based on the faith in multiple gods with one leading god).

Historically, it turned out that the most progressive religions on Earth are monotheistic - Christianity and Islam. This means a belief in one God (although He may be represented, for example, in three persons or more). One can defend a million useless PhD thesises explaining why it is so, but let's just accept this fact as an objective reality given to us through experience. My theory on this matter is that building temples for the entire pantheon of gods was much more costly than constructing uniform temples where everyone adheres to a unified ideology. This also provides a second advantage - monopoly on God (monotheism). It is easier for the state to govern monotheism than a group of scattered idiots believing in different deities, from Athena and Aphrodite to Zeus and beyond.

If we draw an analogy between faith and money, it is quite reasonable that humanity will eventually move from "polymonetarism" (multiple local currencies of scattered states) to "monomonetarism" (a unified "Ideal Money" not controlled by any state), and in some sense, this transition is inevitable. The advantages are obvious, as, for example, the Roman Empire (where Christianity became the main religion) no longer exists, but Christianity still does. Today, any money holds value only as long as the issuing state exists, and this is a significant problem for humanity (for instance, if you were born in the USSR).

Gold religion -> Fiat religion -> Bitcoin ...?
"Julius Caesar minted gold coins, at 1/40th of the Roman pound (about 8 g.).  The Roman monetary system was stabilized for three centuries, and inflation was eradicated."

So we need Bitcoin foundation or religious Order.

The land won't be limited if we create an artificial sun and move on mars, then we may move on another plants. I know it's sci-fi but theoretically possible.
Bitcoin is limited but that doesn't mean it is guaranteed to stay that way. What if we plan in near future to do a hard fork and increase the limit? So, it's not like 100% guaranteed that bitcoin will be 21m.
Btw if military conflict starts, you may lose your computer or hardware wallet too. You can imagine a lot of possible scenarios, like what if we set total control on internet? What if quantum computer destroys the bitcoin network and will be able to brute-force addresses in a very short time?


Hmm, ISPs around me don't support ipv6 yet, ipv4 is the only option, it's not like I'm paying or have paid additional bucks for it.

I define myself as a Bitcoiner, my pronouns is pump/dump.

I see these kind user can't accept wrong and will argue if they're always correct, comparing Bitcoin and religion is really stupid. Moreover there's a religion which is prevent their follower to buy Bitcoin since it's a form of gambling.

Satoshi himself didn't even stated Bitcoin is used to replace fiat, now you're wish you will change the world with Bitcoin.

The market must have two components, buyers and sellers. Without buyers or sellers, that market will be dead.

A market without trading volume is dead like many altcoins were dead because no buyers want to buy those dead altcoins. No buyers, no volume, no future.

Those coins will be shown as "this project is an untracked listing." on coinmarketcap (https://coinmarketcap.com/)

Creating a new internet protocol, let's say IPv6 or IPv8, is trillions of times simpler than synthesizing the sun and the earth. Yet, you stick to your IPv4 protocol, and you can't even understand why. Well, let me try to explain. Achieving network consensus among a group of ISP, which as I mentioned earlier is around one million today, is an incredibly challenging task, and that's why you still use IPv4 addresses. Another example of achieving consensus is the language you speak, the religion you believe in, and the monetary system you use. All of these are the result of human consensus, a foundation on which societies are built. In essence, my proposal is to add Bitcoin to this foundation.

The Bitcoin market existed long before the first Bitcoin exchange and coinmarketcap emerged.

"Well, first of all, I didn't say that the free supply of Bitcoin would be zero. Let's assume the free supply will be one Bitcoin. Alternatively, the price of Bitcoin will be determined in the derivatives market. For instance, just like oil; it's not physically traded in barrels in the order book."

Let's look at this from a different angle.

You know, for example, the U.S. Congress is not very friendly towards Bitcoin. But let's consider the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Well, it's all because the legal firms that cryptocurrency projects and exchanges in the U.S. approach are just regular scammers collecting hundreds of millions of dollars from these ignorant idiots without providing any concrete solution to legalize Bitcoin and establish rules for this market for U.S. citizens. Well, the lawyers of Order 2.625 (whom many of you may laugh at or not take seriously enough) have proposed a practical solution for legalizing Bitcoin in the U.S., citing the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. After all, Order 2.625, as the Decentralized Religious Organization Order 2.625 (DROO 2.625) represented by the North American Diocese (Eparchy) and the plebeians of the order, is nothing but a religious movement. Therefore, according to the Constitution, the U.S. Congress has no right to prohibit the plebeians of the Order from using Bitcoin, as Bitcoin is the ceremonial currency unit of the Order and serves as our religious symbol (similar to the kirpan of the Sikhs)

In this sense, Order 2.625 is grateful to all the previous religious movements in the U.S. (especially Protestants and Catholics) for creating this convenient loophole in the fundamental law of the state.

Do you still consider creating a religion an irrational strategy?

Could you provide any reference as to how this trend is emerging today? I can't see it. I can see whales accumulating...I can see individuals buying...though I can not see a band of 8 million coming together to fight the unstoppable forces and powers that be.


Your theory is fine and uniquely articulated, there is definitely a level of truth here if you don't read the "army of plebeians" like some folk tale. It is true that elites will always be superior, that the vast population will become modern-day slaves (as most already are) and that we are fighting an uphill battle against people or families that are born into privilege. Whether or not holding 2.625 BTC is enough to change an individual's part in this future, is another story. How would these 8 million band together? How will they fight together or unite, being distributed around the globe? Why would they survive a potential manhunt from their fellow citizens or more powerful people if the world got to this state?

I don't see any other way of uniting such a diverse and scattered group of people than through the establishment of, let's say, a religious Order 2.625 and subsequently creating a quasi-state BTCatican. My academic advisor used to say that an idea represents only 5% of the implementation. However, I believe that Bitcoin on 95% consists of idea and just 5% the specific software implementation, mining, cryptocurrency exchanges, liquidity providers, futures, options, ETFs, speculators, investors, etc. It is the idea that generates progressive monetary systems; the idea materializes, lives, and will outlive us all.

Imagine what could possibly be common among the wealthiest person in the world, the President of El Salvador, owner of Telegram, a Ukrainian deputy, Bulgarian scammers, Albanian drug traffickers, a programmer, an American rapper, a PhD scientist, a world boxing champion, an heiress to a major hotel chain, a German entrepreneur, a prostitute, and others? Well, what can they have in common besides the idea(religion)?

Your mathematical model is intriguing despite its ambiguity. Buy and hold Bitcoin to participate in a new financial order. However, from a corporate and social perspective, lets stand back.

First, lets eliminate the premise that everyone can or wants 2.625 Bitcoins. Wealth distribution varies. Like Bitcoin. Few early users will ever be worth much. Additionally, not everyone can afford, understand, or want to invest in Bitcoin.

Second, your comment about individuals uniting for a cause is intriguing. However, Bitcoin's strength is its decentralisation, which prevents authority from becoming centralised. Bitcoin buyers trust in it and think it can disrupt financial systems, not create another elite class.

The first response will be for the case if you are a mathematician.
The second response will be for the case if you have got a humanities education.

1. In game theory, zero-sum games (Bitcoin) are a class of antagonistic games in which the sum of the winnings of all participants is equal to zero. This means that the gain of one player is equal to the loss of another player. In such games, the majority of players lose due to the following factors:

Zero-sum nature: In zero-sum games, the total winnings always add up to zero. This implies that for one player to achieve success, another player must suffer a defeat. As a result, the total number of winners always equals the total number of losers, and the majority of players end up on the losing side.
Limited strategies: In zero-sum games, participants are restricted in their choice of strategies that can lead to victory. Often, players opt for simple and predictable strategies, which make their behavior easily foreseeable for experienced opponents.
Competition and aggressiveness: In zero-sum games, players compete against each other and strive to outperform their opponents. This leads to aggressive behavior and a desire to achieve gains at the expense of defeating other players. As a consequence, the majority of players face fierce competition and end up losing.
Optimal strategies: In zero-sum games, optimal strategies can be studied and computed mathematically. Experienced players can analyze the game, predict their opponents' moves, and choose optimal strategies to achieve victory. Inexperienced players, lacking sufficient knowledge and skills, often encounter losses.

As a result, in zero-sum games, the majority of players lose due to competition, limited strategies, and aggressive behavior. Experienced players, with more precise game analysis and the application of optimal strategies, may have a better chance of succeeding. So hold 2.625 Bitcoin is optimal bet (optimal strategy) for ~8 million players (ideal improbable limit) and losing strategy for ~8 billion (ideal improbable limit) players (short sellers, margin traders, futures traders, options traders, etc) in the zero-sum game.

2. The Order 2.625 is not the only order with a number in its name. For example, the Franciscans and Dominicans also have the Third Order within their Orders, known as "tertius"
These are laypeople who live according to the order's rules, take vows, but do not leave the secular world or their professions and families. The Third Order became a major force in the Renaissance culture. tertius included poets like Dante, Francesco Petrarch, Jacopone da Todi, and the famous Catalan writer and theologian, Ramon Llull. Artists like Michelangelo and Raphael were also "tertius". Even Christopher Columbus was a "tertius", a Franciscan of the Third Order. These were highly influential individuals and key figures of the Renaissance.

When the Order 2.625 gains power and we enter the era of Nanorenaissance, then Michael Saylor will be recognized not only as a key figure of our time but will be elevated by the Order to the same level as apostles Peter or Paul are in the Roman Catholic Church. After all, only those who have shown exceptional dedication can be exalted.

You want a controlled market maybe be create a token and then practice this your strategy there, Bitcoin has gone to far to be controlled and not to waste time on any debate your strategy would never be possible to implement in Bitcoin and not just Bitcoin it would not also be possible on some altcoins already. Let the market be a natural market.

Sure, you can control supply of any shitcoin like Ethereum foundation, which owns 70% of the "premined" supply (some projects owns up to 99% coins). But all of this smells like a Ponzi scheme. Organizing into a religious Order 2.625 for ~8 million holders, each of whom has honestly acquired Bitcoin in the market, can never be accused of building a Ponzi scheme and market fraud, as Vitalik and his gang do. Order 2.625 is a fair game (and fairly decentralized), unlike Ethereum or any shitcoin "premine".

So we're talking quite literally about a religion-like movement for Bitcoin?

I can totally see where you are coming from and your response was articulated perfectly in terms of conveying the idea...however I do wonder if the same goal could be accomplished except in a way where we aren't creating a cult or a religion out of Bitcoin, rather a modern alternative that is less about faith and ideas, and more about immutable facts.

An organization, or a foundation, which is governed by those with 2.625 Bitcoin and distributes Bitcoin for those who are contributing not only to Bitcoin's adoption and exposure, as well as in its fight against fiat and banks, might be similar but not the same, and less traditional. The organization could incentivize those with less BTC to do good for any of Bitcoin's causes in order to build wealth sooner, communities could unite, bounties could be given...it mightn't be too bad of an idea to pursue in this way.

I might even explore the idea myself if I ever hit the 2.625 club

I believe that you will be able to acquire 2.625 Bitcoin in the market and transfer them to your cold wallet. This is the way.

That wouldn't be a religion, or any kind of unity that is fighting against anything. That is just 8,000,000 individuals around the world who hold 2.625 BTC because they understand that Bitcoin has economic and technical attributes that are superior to that of fiat money, and that doesn't taken a genius nor a group fighting for something to achieve.

If you simply meant that you need 2.625 BTC and automatically you are a part of this overly exaggerated spiel that you described in the OP, then all I have to say is that you are an extremely dramatic shitposter person.

simple math
2.625 * 8m = 21mill
so your saying ALL bitcoin

funnily enough there is not 21m coins available for 8 million people to accumulate 2.625 at the moment or in the future due to many coins locked up already.

also the first bitcoin market was the first bitcoin exchange. and coinmarketcap is not an market or an exchange. its just a flawed stats site.

i was going to give you a tough lesson in economics about bitcoin(again) and also a lesson in the real estate market(your analogy) but i feel you dont want to understand and are just looking for people that want to agree with you, where you are not looking for facts or corrections to your opinion

This is funny as the Bitcoin market depends on supply and demand, what is supply and demand? The buying and selling of Bitcoin on markets like Exchanges. If we all buy and never sell, that is going to make Bitcoin worthless in my opinion because "you can never sell". It's like buying a piece of art that you can never sell and just hang on the wall in your lounge.

Also, the fun is in price fluctuating 100 times a day, I love the pressure market creates with the whale buy and sell. :D

I don't believe that making a religious cult-like Bitcoin army is going to solve anything. The world is full of structural injustice, that's true. But trying to work around the issues, trying to make it better and to change the culture, making things more accessible, is the way forward. Uniting against the smartest and most privileged people isn't a great idea, it's better to have those on the side of positive change. Also, of course the smart and rich can also invest in Bitcoin, as it's open to everyone, so there's no practical way to keep people out.
Furthermore, I totally agree with franky1 that if there's no circulation of coins, there's no market, and thus Bitcoin is worthless.

I will give you a simple lesson in economics. There is no such thing as a real estate exchange. But the residential real estate market exists. The second example is even easier: there is no such thing as a plush toy exchange, but the plush toy market exists.

I'm struggling to get past the first hurdle here.  Putting aside all the religion stuff, the basic premise of the thread boils down to "IF collusion and market rigging THEN high fiat prices for BTC.  But we're never going to experience that "IF".  There are non-millionaires who own 2.625 or more BTC.  You don't have to be fantastically wealthy to be in that position if you got in early enough. 

As such, there won't be an elite cabal of market riggers to conspire together and rig the market.  Just some ordinary people who happen to hold some bitcoins and may well decide to sell them one day if they find their financial circumstances change.  Maybe they need money for healthcare, or perhaps they want to buy a house.  There could be any number of factors on their decision.

Real life gets in the way sometimes.  Some may find themselves in a position where they have no alternative but to sell their BTC.  Crazy theories about religion don't enter the equation.

Beyond the religious stuff, there's no difference between this topic and others which have discussed the potential for market rigging.  It's as unlikely now as it was then.

OP is failing to understand how this things works, if there is a product and no body is there to buy the products that means the products is a waste product, what makes markets to be lively is product, buying and selling, and the buyers and sellers are the number one capital in the organization, if there's no buyers and no sellers the products and both the market will close down because the market without buyers and sellers  it can not be able to provide more valuable income that will uplift the product in future to come, every bad products have criticism, costomers criticized the product because it's not useful or whatever.

I don't know if I am wrong or right, because I believe that bitcoin can't be compared to oil, by the way what oil? Crude oil or ? Lol, crude is been controlled by the government and Bitcoin is not controlled by government, or do you espect me to agree with you that Bitcoin is far more better than crude? Bitcoin has nothing to do with politics, okay! And we can't redict it future outcome because Satoshi Nakamoto is an appariton. Hope am right?  ;D

"no one can set the price of oil - it's up to Allah"

So, following your logic, did the government establish negative prices for oil?

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52350082

No they don't because that's were they all get there salaries from, like I meant source of income, but are you insinuating that Satoshi Nakamoto is not establiahing a negative price in the market? No he does, because sometimes the price goes up and comes down (fluctuate) hope you get my point? Like you said earlier that no one can set the price of an oil, so no one can set the price of Bitcoin too.

Well, oil might be too complicated of an example for you. Let's consider another asset. Have you ever wondered how the price of diamonds and gemstones is determined? In the case of diamonds and gemstones, there isn't even a futures market.

Bitcoin opponents are already defeated. We no longer have any challanger. We are now in the stage of completing the Bitcoin Project we hope and pray will survive an upcoming apocalyptic event.
We are still building and trying to convince more people to join the ship. Once we are done, the doors will be shot, a fierce king from the other side will be let loose and we will sail away.

because if there is a oil blockade banning the sells of all oil(yet supply continues to pile up). then even the futures market will see this and be on a downside not an upside. (those with active contract will be trying to sell them at a loss becasue the contracts wont fulfil so they will want any dumb chump to buy their empty bag of contracts off them)

and when the blockade finally gets removed for actual oil. there will be alot of people ready to sell and everyone clamouring over each other to sell before the next person, thus causing a dump

same goes for real estate. those holding mortgage derivatives know that they are holding a losing contract. and so while tenants are foreclosed on because they stopped paying mortgages, the investors will want their money out but unable to sell the house so they just foreclose on tenants and hoard unsellable real estate, leaving homes in disrepair.
then when real estate market opens again everyone will be clamouring to auction off dilapidated/unkept houses for $1 just to get rid of their contract but knowing the tenant still owes them full amount of debt tenant didnt pay.. because well thats what happened in 2008 in one way or another

when there is a large stockpile of assets that cant sell.. the prices dont go up.. they go down

It seems to me that you have little experience in the market. Let's take the year 2020, when oil prices fell by ~90% (WTI ~$2, Brent ~$5). If your claim is correct that the price is determined by the balance of supply and demand, does it mean that humanity reduced its oil consumption by 90% in 2020? Roughly speaking, by 10 times? Of course not, the actual reduction in consumption may have been around 10-20%, but not 90%, indicating that the price of oil was determined by the derivatives market. Similarly, your second example about the 2008 crisis is also entirely flawed. Do you believe that in 2008, people started buying 3 times less real estate or constructing 3 times fewer properties? Even in the case of real estate, the price bubble was inflated in the derivatives market, not in the real market.

The ~90% drop in oil prices in 2020 and the decline in real estate prices in 2008 were caused not by changes in the supply and demand ratio but by speculations in the derivatives market with large leveraged positions involving notional value to trillions of U.S. dollars.

Bitcoin must serve for   people goodness  rather than visa versa.

If ppl hold BTC forever and never give it the works then there won't be any notable distinction between cryptocurrency  and, say, ordinary numbers generated by sophisticated computations, albeit by  decentralized way.  

Think about that.

Following your logic, all that gold in Fort Knox is just lying there and not serving any purpose for people. So, what do you propose? Should we distribute it to the poor?

Think about that.

i never even made the assertions you replied with .. read my quote i never even used the words buzzword of silly highscool economics of "supply & demand" however you did multiple times in this topic

it seems your taking high school failed economics and trying to postulate from that standpoint without understanding the multiple levels of economics and how each level impacts the next.

its funny how you then say its about buying X less .. yet your whole topic is about a dumb scenario of ther being no buys at all.. thus making your rebuttals moot.
so i dig into your moot rebuttals and show you why they are moot becasue in a zero transactional market with no trade at all, there is no market
and with no spot market, that then affects the secondary markets of derivatives and darkpools which also crash to zero

and by the way, in 2008 alot of houses were foreclosed on and auctioned off cheaply in auctions as oppose to normal real estate listings thus causing a price drop in housing due to alot more housing being flash sold quickly when the derivatives banks wanted to exit their secondary market on mortgages..
it didnt matter about supply or demand. it was jsut price manipulation by forcing the comps down, it did not require all or high percentage of houses to be sold to crash it. it just required  select few being auctioned dirt cheap

you will learn this about bitcoin
bitcoin exchanges do not trade all current 19m coins each day to set prices.. there is a subset in exchanges of under 500k coins of which 90% are not even on market orders being processed. so call it only 50k coins traded at any given time frame. most of which are the same coins wash/arbitraged.
so forget your highschool "supply/demand" and realise there is more going on then that

the bitcoin value(number below market) is set by most efficient mining costs. this sets a bottom barrier of the lowest low for a period which people then speculate above that not due to supply but willingness/ability to buy.

there are currently americans willing to pay upto $40k if bitcoin price speculated that. there are japanese/hawaiian willing to pay upto $140k if bitcoin speculated that high. but each country has different value/premium limits before they give up
with this if there was no market for miners to sell coin to cover electric to continue mining. miners would give up mining. leaving the hashrate to crash, which would then make the cost to mine real cheap for anyone that decides to keep going due to lack of competition. this then lowers the bottom support meaning when markets open again those that did accumulate will want to exit quick and sell quick pushing the price down.

a forced ban of a market where no one sells does not cause a jump in market price. it in most scenarios causes the opposite becasue once the markets open again, majority are begging to sell at any price even at a loss, just to get out
it becomes a game of dominos, when a market opens and someone sells at a loss to exit, others see the price crash and they too panic and sell too.. and with miners having less competition thus a lower cost for those remaining. they too can sell cheap

learn beyond highschool economics

I never suggested limiting the free supply of bitcoin on exchanges to 0. The free supply on all exchanges could be for example 1 Bitcoin, and that would be sufficient to determine the price at $10+ million per Bitcoin. But even if the free supply of Bitcoin is restricted to 0, the price of Bitcoin can still be established in the derivatives market. That's essentially all I wanted to convey about pricing.

I'll let you in on a secret: everything you see on the exchange, including the charts and order books, is just a some kind of illusion. If you don't believe me, just conduct a simple experiment. Calculate the total supply of Bitcoin available for sale on all order books (sum asks) of every CEX and DEX including derivatives. I'm afraid you might discover that the sum of the entire "supply" (sum asks) could exceed 22 million bitcoins.

That stuff lying  in Fort Knox is not one and only gold on Earth.

Ppl have been harnessing the unique properties of this  material for centuries in various aspects of their life, that is why gold  holds such value for them.

 As we know gold is produced by the bursts of supernovas.

If it had remained locked in the cores  of those stars forever it would not have any value for people.

So, are you trying to say that gold has value simply because it can be mined?

For example, lead is also a relatively rare metal, and its abundance in the Earth's crust is comparable to that of gold. So why is lead not stored in Fort Knox?

If all holders of BTC do not sell then it is simple to think that the market is dead.  There is nothing to buy after all.  The market price may probably increase if the item is being hoarded making an artificial lack of supply but if there is nothing to buy in the market then it won't be long before the market becomes dead.

We must also understand that the market is governed by the law of supply and demand.  Without a supply,  there is no market at all.

Let's consider another asset. Have you ever wondered how the price of diamonds and gemstones is determined? In the case of diamonds and gemstones, there isn't even a futures market.

Picture a scenario in which all Bitcoin holders decide to transfer their holdings to cold wallets, effectively removing all available Bitcoin from the market. What would be the implications of such a situation? How would others be able to acquire Bitcoin, and how would trading persist? The outcome might result in a stagnant price, with trading activity grinding to a halt. This could resemble the situation of a "shitcoin," where the buy and sell prices remain fixed, causing no movement on the price chart. It's essential not to assume everything will unfold as per our individual opinions, as numerous unknown factors can influence the outcome.

With zero supply, the demand can indeed be zero, but it can also be infinitely large.

Well, very simple example, imagine casino chips. All the chips belong to the casino, but that doesn't mean the chips are worthless, right?

Or another example. Imagine traders dealing with stock options of $GOOGL. ~99.99% of $GOOGL shares are distributed between ~5000 large holders, but that doesn't prevent options traders from buying puts on 1% or 10% of total supply . Right?

ill let you in on a bigger secret
the active price is not determined by the supply.. its determined by the order thats triggered/processed/taken at that very moment which sets the price
no sell=no price=no market

it does not matter if an order being processed for 21m coins in an order.. nor 2.625coins or 0.0001 coins.
a market order being processed for 0.0001 for $3 still causes the market price to show as $30k/btc.. because math

takae a look at the market orders.. people are not trading 21m per order, nor 2.625. majority of orders triggering price changes are decimal amounts

if however there is no orders being processed there is no price, there is no market.

and you keep saying you never suggested a no market scenario.. even though your math of 2.625*8m=21m
even when there is only 19.44m right now meaning all bitcoin are meant to be held in your own scenario. including future bitcoin promises

if you however said something rational like 2.42btc*8m =19.36m leaving 80k coins open to trade. then you might have kicked off your topic more rationally

also if you do actually look at the actual order depths of the market orderbooks of all exchanges the totals dont even exceed 5m coins

and if you are trying to include derivative crap in your calculation, then thats a fail on you for not understanding the differences

People will band together to buy Bitcoin and that was a long time ago when Bitcoin was created by Satoshi. But know, someone or they will not be able to hold it in the long term because they will take profits when the price increase occurs. I think if you want everyone to buy BTC and refrain from selling it then there will be no economic laws in this matter because every day there are those who sell and there are those who buy, so this is the law of the market.

Even some people buy to invest in the long term and some of them buy to trade on the same day so there is always a circulation that occurs at any time. Now the supply of Bitcoin will decrease because many of them may lose their keys and cannot open them again and also as Bitcoin owners who may have left the world so the BTC supply will continue to decrease friends and at the same time the interest of buyers will increase which will make the price of Bitcoin go up on its own without having to make the effort as you have described.

Your theory doesn't even hold up to elementary school level. Well, if your theory is correct, then what are today's oil prices? And what is the price of one carat diamonds? Where that spot exchange with barrels and diamonds in order books?  ;D

The painting "Savior of the World" (Salvador Mundi) is sold once every few centuries, but that doesn't mean it has no price and  doesn't mean it has no demand.

YOU are the one shouting about locking up and holding and not selling 21m coins
YOUR math 2.625*8m=21m

there is only 19.44m coins available so far, so YOU are the one calculating a zero trade market as YOUR scenario

I've repeatedly stated that 8 million is an ideal and unattainable result. It is estimated that 5 million bitcoins are permanently lost. In that case, the foundation will be formed by a slightly smaller number of players, but having 2.625 bitcoins each will allow them to achieve ergodicity in case, for example, one or all five of the lost million bitcoins are miraculously found.

Perhaps the number "8 million" confused you, but I used this figure to illustrate that we are still at a very early stage of development in this market. Among all these inflated marketing fictional numbers of 120+ million cryptocurrency exchange users, there are NO only 8 million individuals, each of whom holds 2.625 Bitcoin equivalent to the value of an economy-level sedan.

In all honesty I don't understand why you have to limit yourself to buying Bitcoin and holding it for a long time???  The WP speaks clearly "Bitcoin is a p2p payment system" so why not use it?  Otherwise how do you think this mass adoption will happen?  Definitely not keeping your btc in your wallet and perhaps losing your access keys.

The Bitcoin Lightning Network is already being used for p2p payments. As for Bitcoin network, if BTC/USD price increase to $100 million dollars or even $1 billion, how would you assess the cost of such transactions? Order 2.625 is modern decentralized Fort Knox, but not yet another PayPal.

What necessitates a market is the act of buying and selling for the two works hand-in-hand and in a scenario where there's no seller then the process of buying is frustrated and that's no good market at all as it either mean that there's a problem somewhere. That's why the statement " if there's no seller there's no buyer is a fact and not a hypothesis.

Using this analogy: Just like a tree, the seller is like the root of the tree and the buyer the leaves. Where there's no tree roots there would be no leaves of a tree.

I don't understand your statement, because what would be the difference between Bitcoin onchain and LN?  Aren't they both 2 very similar payment methods?  Isn't LN just instant versus onchain but does it use Bitcoin like onchain for that matter?  So where would the differences be if btc goes up in value?  It's not how you move it but what you move the real meaning, and therefore if it arrives at that value it makes no difference if you don't stick to its equivalent value in dollars.  If it increases dramatically, just send the right amount of sats.

Why you want sell bitcoin on spot to determine price? Buy and sell bitcoin futures to establish the price of bitcoin on the futures market.

https://www.cmegroup.com/tools-information/quikstrike/commitment-of-traders.html

Imagine you have one hundred dollar bill. Why you need establish swap line with FED?

Or another example, IPv4 was developed for ARPANET (campus scale network), but now it works as main Internet protocol. You don't need your own ISP to use Internet. You simply rent a communication channel from ISP. If Bitcoin becomes the basis for the modern global financial system (like Internet became global communication system) then average Joe will not be able to own a bitcoin or even satoshi and have direct access to the modern global financial system. The average Joe will be renting access to payment systems based on Bitcoin or Bitcoin LN or Bitcoin XYZ.

The average Joe don't own apartment, the average Joe rent apartment from landlord.
The average Joe don't own bank, the average Joe rent account from bank.
The average Joe don't own ISP, the average Joe rent communication channel from ISP.
The average Joe will not own Bitcoin, the average Joe will be renting a payment channel and the function "store-of-value" from Order 2.625.

but the total still only totals 19.44m coins not 21m coins

your own scenario was not 8mill coins. nor about 8mill users of less then 2.625. you categorically set the math. so stick to it
it was 8 mill chosen cult members of your believed cultship you want to set up, each holding 2.625btc each which would be 21m

and actually there are many many millions of average users that have CEX accounts. you just wanted to start a religious cult of only 8million people which you want to lead where you call micheal saylor your messiah/prophet

..
why is it that idiots that want to be cult leaders try setting up their dream scenarios but then forget their own messages and start arguing about their own scenario by pretending they never said it even though this very forum is the written proof of their message,

your not the first, you wont be the last. but if you cant even remember your own stance on things, try reading your own post history and other peoples replies. rather then making crap up pretending you didnt say what you opened the topic saying.

if your not happy with your own topic and you dont like the scenario you set. close the topic/lock the topic and start something that is more rational. dont play the idiot that forgot your own topics scenario just to argue your way into hopes of generating a fanbase into a cult of people that agree with you

You take into account the current Bitcoin supply, and I take into account the maximum Bitcoin supply because I have children, and I plan to play this game for several centuries, benefiting my future generations.

No, there are already too many misinformed people saying that Bitcoin are the "New World Order's" ...One Currency.  ::) (Conspiracy theory) and also that Bitcoiners are a Cult and they are religious fanatics with Libertarian goals to take over the government.  ::)

Bitcoin is a technology for EVERYONE ..... not a selected few, with enough money to buy and hoard 2.625 Bitcoins.... and the whole idea behind this technology....are to remove the barrier to entry for poor people to have access to the financial market.  ;)

I don't like to overload chats with formulas, let's consider a simple example.

The Problem of the Three Widows from the Talmud. The solution to this problem was known to ancient Jews for several thousand years. For many centuries, this solution was perceived as a religious dogma.

However, mathematically, this problem was only proven in the 1980s.

The question is as follows: Is the proposed solution to the problem in the Talmud a religion/cult or a strategy?

https://www.coursehero.com/file/ppsi9d/112-Bankruptcy-Figure-116-Three-widows-in-dispute-over-how-the-estate-of-their/

Those who have bitcoins use their bitcoin exchange like money like money goes from one hand to another, bitcoins are transferred from one person to another in case of need in real terms there is no loss of bitcoins or the amount of bitcoins in the market will never decrease. But people don't hold onto their bitcoins like you said. Even if you don't hold on to bitcoins as you planned, we expect bitcoin's value to increase substantially at some point through the transfer of bitcoins from one person to another. Bitcoin is currently increasing its popularity users and value in certain steps. It is estimated that by 2024 the price of Bitcoin will go to a very good state between $50000 to $70000 we can see the price of Bitcoin in 2024.

The total Bitcoin supply on exchange balances less than 1 million Bitcoin. Actually many players still just hold as I say and you can see it.

https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html

No, that is surely not a good idea. I mean there are already a lot of conspiracy theories regarding our community that revolves around us being a cult or "the new world order", if we start doing this then we are surely just feeding those ideas. Moreover, why make things so complicated? Bitcoin is already doing a massive change in the world, why do we need to apply these changes you are stating, only to make things complicated for us.

Well OP, there is nothing to argue here, such as this which you have assumed can never be possible, and i think franky1 has pretty much explained why can never happen, and just to add based on my little knowledge of how the market works, if 8 million people around the world come together to buy up the entire supply of bitcoin, remember that the more bitcoin is bought, the higher the price goes, so for this 8 million people to buy up the entire 21 million coins, means they will have to spend quadrillions upon quadrillions of dollars and still, will not acquire the entire bitcoins available in the market.
And remember that the bitcoin block explorer is always open and visible for people to search and see what is truly happening, some blockchain forensic experts will definitely find out that its just 8 million addresses accumulating bitcoin.

What is the negative side to this? the negative side is that, first, the price of bitcoin will become so high, and with the knowledge of the fact that its just 8 million addresses accumulating bitcoin and not selling, many will become afraid to buy because they do not know the motive of the owners of this addresses, and when people stop buying because the price have become too expensive, there will be no market for bitcoin just like franky1 said, people will channel their investments to alternative crypto assets instead, and when this happens, even the 8 million people that are holding the entire supply of bitcoin will find it difficult to convert their bitcoin to usd or any other coin without doing so at a great loss.

You're promoting online casinos. The casino's strategy is very simple. Any casino game, any slot machine, is programmed in a way that the casino's clients have fewer chances of winning than losing. Let's take roulette with a single zero and black/red bets, where the probability of winning is ~48% against ~52% of losing (and on some roulette wheels, there can even be two zeros). Thus, according to the law of large numbers, the casino always wins.

I propose a strategy that gives a ~98% chance of winning and a ~2% chance of losing. However, you still consider this not a very good idea. Perhaps, what hinders your thinking is that you are interested in people losing in your casino and not adopting my strategy for extended winnings.

So that's in contrast to what you said before. I mean if an organization you are talking about buys bitcoins and doesn't sell them will it make the price go up whereas we see every day there are always sellers and there are always buyers. Don't you see that this opportunity would not be possible if you still believed you would be able to gather 8 million people for the same thought.

A painting is a work of art that will be valuable according to the year it was made. Meanwhile, Bitcoin is digital money which is the easiest option to make payments than fiat in today's modern era.

In essence, a conspiracy will not progress if there is no way to address a big meaning of what they are building.

Bitcoin is a work of math that might be valuable regardless of the year it was mined.

I can see that you are either overthinking or overimagining the whole thing about Bitcoin, which is not really good because your idea is not what will happen. I was even shocked to see that you are concluding that your imagination is already taking place. How do you believe or think that only a few people can hold down Bitcoin because of some kind of religious belief? First, you should ask yourself if the whole world is practising one religion, or perhaps do you only suggest that it's just a few individuals that are in the same religion that will accumulate all the Bitcoin? It's never been possible, and it's not becoming possible any day.

Allow me to answer your question with a question. Strictly speaking, Bitcoin can be "printed" by changing just one line of its source code. And if 51% of miners reach a consensus around this version of Bitcoin, we could indeed increase the maximum supply to 30 million or 50 million. So, why is the number 21 million significant? Is it some kind of religious belief?

Principles can exist without religion, y'know.  Arguably, they flourish without it.  Balls to religion.  I'd rather see people being capable of judging right from wrong without needing to be bribed with the promise of heaven or threatened with the prospect of hell.  If someone requires such an incentive to be a good person, they're probably just a bad person masquerading as a good one.  Besides which, obsessions with superstition and fables is unproductive when discussing technology.  Maybe leave that crap out of it?

If you use Bitcoin, you accept the fundamentals of its design.  In the same way an upstanding person wouldn't renege on a deal, they equally wouldn't wish to breach the principles that Bitcoin was founded upon.  Changing it would effectively be pulling the rug out from under everyone who already accepted it as it is.  It's not fair to move the goalposts like that.

Your words reflect a wealth of life experience, and I completely agree with you. However, what if principles matter not only those embedded in the Bitcoin code but also the principles guiding Bitcoin investment? What if the optimal bet of 2.625 is genuinely based on sound reasoning and has no connection to religion?

Let's take, for example, the relationships between men and women. If in your religion and your state, it is accepted that a man can have only one wife, then whether you are Jeff Bezos or a McDonald's worker, you can't violate this rule. You can't claim that having two wives is better than one, or having three wives is better than two. These are the principles on which your society is based. Because mathematically having one wife when the distribution of men and women is 50/50 is considered an optimal strategy in this game.

There is something you may be missing that you don't know. If you form an army like you have explained to be a number of 8 millions holding at least 2.6 Bitcoin each without anyone selling, do you think the market will evr move? If everyone of us decided not to sell there Bitcoin holdings and waiting to sell in the future or when everyone agreed to sell, do you think the market will every move?

 We are not fighting anybody here which is something you need to know and understand. We don't need to form an army of plebeians to be able to have a bright futures and make money from the market. If we do whatever we like in the market, as weare buying, some are selling and this makes the market to be liquidized and continuous movement.

the OP has spent pages ignoring his own math and his own scenario many times, thus doesnt see where his own scenario doesnt play out

so lets remind him again of HIS scenario
8m * 2.625=21m
21m = all coins existing now plus al coins fresh mined for the next 117 years.

knowing there is only 19.44m coins currently.
the most 8 million people can equally own is not 2.625. but 2.43btc of just current curculation

if we were to go with his math his 8m* 2.625 never selling is  ALL CURRENT PLUS FUTURE POSSIBLE COINS never selling.
locking up all 21m means locking up ALL coins from now until the year 2140 when the network finally produces the 21m^th coin he thinks should be locked up too. meaning for 117years all current coins and all new coins minted are not to be sold.
meaning no market for the next 117 year

You say that my idea is abstract, but I don't deny that. I described an ideal strategy, but the world is not perfect. The total number of mined bitcoins will never reach 21 million, as the Bitcoin code includes a function that asymptotically approaches 21 million but never reaches it. So, to criticize me for abstraction is the same as criticizing the abstraction of the Bitcoin idea itself. Indeed, all mathematics is abstract, and that's its beauty.

2099999997690000sat /8m = 262499999.71125 is just a rounding error.

it still does not make your scenario fix itself to suddenly be correct of a rational thought to then leave a scenario of of a markt price rise in such a situation of your scenario rounded or not

if you however mentioned a completely different number BELOW 2.43 instead of anything like 2.62X you might have had some rational amount to still be in a market.
but you still held strong on your all coin put in cold wallet and never sold.
thus again the scenario you presented still failed

even when you tried to meander into analogies of secondary market of futures of mortgage debt and oil contracts. you failed to understand their economics. especially if the base market was not operating. thus causing negative affect on the secondary temporary contract market which too would not last

heres a hint if/when they ban all oil trade in say 2050. there will be no oil market. thus.. no oil futures market. you cant have an oils futures market if there is no oil spot market

Once again, I want to remind you that all mathematical models, including mathematical model of Bitcoin, are abstract. I am not a theorist in this game, and my bet of 2.625 bitcoins is placed. Whether you make the same bet or decide to short Bitcoin is entirely your choice.

Understanding mathematically complex models is a skill possessed only by ~0.01% of individuals who hold a PhD in mathematics. The remaining ~99.99% humans are left with only belief since they may not comprehend these models or they might not even grasp that mathematics is a pure abstraction.

Also, this theory of accumulating Bitcoin to a few hundred thousand people would be dead when the massive adoption takes place. Also, these so-called whales will also die as when they sell, they will be a lot of hands to buy and the whales may never get a chance to buy back cheap.

Once you see Bitcoin being legally accepted everywhere, these manipulators will be gone. The manipulation only works when there is an uneven distribution of wealth or they are a way of unlimited supply (for example a fiat printer) always helpful to the riches.

Your absurd thesis is easily refuted by a simple fact.

https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html

So why is the number 21 million so important? Is it a magical number or your religion?

The number is not important as if it can create value, altcoins including Bitcoin forks should have good value. In fact they are dead coins with no value. With failures and deads of Bitcoin forks, altcoins you can see the number fails to create value if there are no good fundamentals, strong hashrate, good decentralization, good developments.

Some altcoins try to set shorter havling cycle like one year or two years but fail to have good halving bull runs.

There are some insights about that number but only Satoshi Nakamoto knows why he used that number. He explained it in some of his emails.

How is the 21M bitcoin cap defined and enforced? (https://blog.lopp.net/how-is-the-21-million-bitcoin-cap-defined-and-enforced/)

It means you don't understand why Satoshi chose 21 million. Nevertheless, it doesn't bother you. But does it bother you that I propose 2.625 bitcoins as optimal bet in this game?

Absolutely. if there is no sellers and no buyers then there will be no transactions. There is no offering in price. BTC is just like a sand in a beach. There will be no value there will be no bid and ask. It will never appreciate value because it is just being kept. If it is just being kept, then there will be no circulation,  no transaction, no fees, no minings. That's how important the liquidity is in the market.

The last Bitcoin will be mined around the year 2140, which is why the sell side of order book is secured for at least another 117 years  ;D

I bought each of my children 2.625 Bitcoins. In my will, there is a clause that will prohibit them from selling the 2.625 Bitcoins. They will only be allowed to sell the portion IF I accumulate above this amount. However, they will still be able to use the 2.625 Bitcoins for refinancing according to the strategy attached to the will.

satoshis reason and math for 21m is not what you think. nor does satoshis decisions or math have anything to do with your math

even cores current code for checking the 21m is bad and insecure.

it actually starts at a satoshi amount of 5,000,000,000 per block (yep check any and all block reward value in 2009 they all start in binary amount of 5,000,000,000 units not 50 units)

which after every 210k blocks the reward divides by 2
in fact and in short its actually a binary amount of
100101010000001011111001000000000
represented in hex of
12A05F200
which then displays in numeric of
5,000,000,000

which every 210k blocks the binary reward amount loses a bit
100101010000001011111001000000000 (5,000,000,000)
becomes
10010101000000101111100100000000 (2,500,000,000)
becomes
1001010100000010111110010000000 (1,250,000,000)
and so on

which if you add up all rewards and average out the timeline of the average block (secured by difficulty to try to keep them at 2016 block per fortnight(~10min/block)) then means after 32 halvings(because there was 32 bits in the first reward binary amount) every ~ 4 years, mean it totals 21m(rounding error) btc or more specific 2099999997690000sat at around 2140

What you are talking about is a specific implementation of approximating the logistic function. To implement it, you first need to conduct mathematical modeling and define the function you will be approximating. The choice of 21 million is not random. Satoshi could have chosen any parameter W.

Good explanation if you read every single post and email ever made by atoshi but the simple answer: 21 wasn't important, and never was. satoshi guessed at it (not alone).

The idea was to define and maintain a way to get everything running on its own and game theory traveling over time. Make it so supply of new coin is big enough early on for distribution and subsidy, that it contracts enough and at pace with market for miners to wean off subsidy and live on fees. 14 years and counting, it works.

Also, worth noting that 21m came after the idea, perhaps the better question s how the starting number of units was arrived at, as discussed in response above. Equally unimportant and I feel, arbitrary at some point.

We can take 21 million as an axiom and even assume that the immutability of this number is crucial. However, from the perspective of game theory, you can't claim that there is no optimal strategy or optimal bet in this game.

Honestly, it's essential to understand the thought process of Bitcoin's creator. If people don't comprehend why Satoshi chose 21 million bitcoins and 100 million Satoshis per bitcoin, it only proves that 99.9% of them don't truly understand Bitcoin and they just blindly believe in it.

Those you see every day who buys and sells are mostly traders while institutions are known as a long term investor. They can sell after some time but I think it does not automatically mean that the price of Bitcoin will now fell down as not all institutions or retail investors are doing the same thing. Others are only continuously buying more coins.

On the other hand, the value of the painting are not only based on how old or new it is but it's also based on its quality. I don't only get on how we ended up connecting it from Bitcoin. I think there are other things which are more comparable to Bitcoin. You already mentioned one of it in fact. That is fiat money.

Most cryptocurrency exchanges charge a fee based on what the client receives. That means, on the BTC/USD market, the exchange takes a fee in BTC when the client buys and in USD when the client sells. Assume the average fee is 0.1%, so it can be concluded that most exchanges also might accumulate Bitcoin (is they don't sell fees in BTC).