Bitcoin foundation

[KalOlak]

YOU are the one shouting about locking up and holding and not selling 21m coins
YOUR math 2.625*8m=21m

there is only 19.44m coins available so far, so YOU are the one calculating a zero trade market as YOUR scenario

I've repeatedly stated that 8 million is an ideal and unattainable result. It is estimated that 5 million bitcoins are permanently lost. In that case, the foundation will be formed by a slightly smaller number of players, but having 2.625 bitcoins each will allow them to achieve ergodicity in case, for example, one or all five of the lost million bitcoins are miraculously found.

Perhaps the number "8 million" confused you, but I used this figure to illustrate that we are still at a very early stage of development in this market. Among all these inflated marketing fictional numbers of 120+ million cryptocurrency exchange users, there are NO only 8 million individuals, each of whom holds 2.625 Bitcoin equivalent to the value of an economy-level sedan.

[mendace]

People will band together to buy Bitcoin and that was a long time ago when Bitcoin was created by Satoshi. But know, someone or they will not be able to hold it in the long term because they will take profits when the price increase occurs. I think if you want everyone to buy BTC and refrain from selling it then there will be no economic laws in this matter because every day there are those who sell and there are those who buy, so this is the law of the market.

Even some people buy to invest in the long term and some of them buy to trade on the same day so there is always a circulation that occurs at any time. Now the supply of Bitcoin will decrease because many of them may lose their keys and cannot open them again and also as Bitcoin owners who may have left the world so the BTC supply will continue to decrease friends and at the same time the interest of buyers will increase which will make the price of Bitcoin go up on its own without having to make the effort as you have described.

In all honesty I don't understand why you have to limit yourself to buying Bitcoin and holding it for a long time???  The WP speaks clearly "Bitcoin is a p2p payment system" so why not use it?  Otherwise how do you think this mass adoption will happen?  Definitely not keeping your btc in your wallet and perhaps losing your access keys.

[KalOlak]

In all honesty I don't understand why you have to limit yourself to buying Bitcoin and holding it for a long time???  The WP speaks clearly "Bitcoin is a p2p payment system" so why not use it?  Otherwise how do you think this mass adoption will happen?  Definitely not keeping your btc in your wallet and perhaps losing your access keys.

The Bitcoin Lightning Network is already being used for p2p payments. As for Bitcoin network, if BTC/USD price increase to $100 million dollars or even $1 billion, how would you assess the cost of such transactions? Order 2.625 is modern decentralized Fort Knox, but not yet another PayPal.

[Lida93]

again if no one is selling . ill repeat..  IF NO ONE IS SELLING.. there is no market nor price

then when the pump and dump group get permission to finally sell.. then you will just see the market crash. with everyone trying to cash out at once.

learn the economics. learn how things actually work and other ways to help the market prosper.. because your outdated and flawed vision of a massive pump and dump group is not the method, i explained a better method in last post

The statement "if no one is selling, there is no market nor price" is not entirely accurate. While it is true that for any trade to occur, there needs to be a buyer and a seller, the absence of sellers alone does not necessarily mean there is no market or price for a particular asset.

In a hypothetical scenario where no one is currently selling a specific asset, but there are willing buyers, the market still exists, and the price would be determined by the last transaction that took place.

For example, you want to use your house for refinancing. How will the bank determine its price? After all, you haven't sold it.

What necessitates a market is the act of buying and selling for the two works hand-in-hand and in a scenario where there's no seller then the process of buying is frustrated and that's no good market at all as it either mean that there's a problem somewhere. That's why the statement " if there's no seller there's no buyer is a fact and not a hypothesis.

Using this analogy: Just like a tree, the seller is like the root of the tree and the buyer the leaves. Where there's no tree roots there would be no leaves of a tree.

[mendace]

In all honesty I don't understand why you have to limit yourself to buying Bitcoin and holding it for a long time???  The WP speaks clearly "Bitcoin is a p2p payment system" so why not use it?  Otherwise how do you think this mass adoption will happen?  Definitely not keeping your btc in your wallet and perhaps losing your access keys.

The Bitcoin Lightning Network is already being used for p2p payments. As for Bitcoin network, if BTC/USD price increase to $100 million dollars or even $1 billion, how would you assess the cost of such transactions? Order 2.625 is modern decentralized Fort Knox, but not yet another PayPal.

I don't understand your statement, because what would be the difference between Bitcoin onchain and LN?  Aren't they both 2 very similar payment methods?  Isn't LN just instant versus onchain but does it use Bitcoin like onchain for that matter?  So where would the differences be if btc goes up in value?  It's not how you move it but what you move the real meaning, and therefore if it arrives at that value it makes no difference if you don't stick to its equivalent value in dollars.  If it increases dramatically, just send the right amount of sats.

[KalOlak]

What necessitates a market is the act of buying and selling for the two works hand-in-hand and in a scenario where there's no seller then the process of buying is frustrated and that's no good market at all as it either mean that there's a problem somewhere. That's why the statement " if there's no seller there's no buyer is a fact and not a hypothesis.

Using this analogy: Just like a tree, the seller is like the root of the tree and the buyer the leaves. Where there's no tree roots there would be no leaves of a tree.

Why you want sell bitcoin on spot to determine price? Buy and sell bitcoin futures to establish the price of bitcoin on the futures market.

https://www.cmegroup.com/tools-information/quikstrike/commitment-of-traders.html

[KalOlak]

I don't understand your statement, because what would be the difference between Bitcoin onchain and LN?  Aren't they both 2 very similar payment methods?  Isn't LN just instant versus onchain but does it use Bitcoin like onchain for that matter?  So where would the differences be if btc goes up in value?  It's not how you move it but what you move the real meaning, and therefore if it arrives at that value it makes no difference if you don't stick to its equivalent value in dollars.  If it increases dramatically, just send the right amount of sats.

Imagine you have one hundred dollar bill. Why you need establish swap line with FED?

Or another example, IPv4 was developed for ARPANET (campus scale network), but now it works as main Internet protocol. You don't need your own ISP to use Internet. You simply rent a communication channel from ISP. If Bitcoin becomes the basis for the modern global financial system (like Internet became global communication system) then average Joe will not be able to own a bitcoin or even satoshi and have direct access to the modern global financial system. The average Joe will be renting access to payment systems based on Bitcoin or Bitcoin LN or Bitcoin XYZ.

The average Joe don't own apartment, the average Joe rent apartment from landlord.
The average Joe don't own bank, the average Joe rent account from bank.
The average Joe don't own ISP, the average Joe rent communication channel from ISP.
The average Joe will not own Bitcoin, the average Joe will be renting a payment channel and the function "store-of-value" from Order 2.625.

[franky1]

YOU are the one shouting about locking up and holding and not selling 21m coins
YOUR math 2.625*8m=21m

there is only 19.44m coins available so far, so YOU are the one calculating a zero trade market as YOUR scenario

I've repeatedly stated that 8 million is an ideal and unattainable result. It is estimated that 5 million bitcoins are permanently lost. In that case, the foundation will be formed by a slightly smaller number of players, but having 2.625 bitcoins each will allow them to achieve ergodicity in case, for example, one or all five of the lost million bitcoins are miraculously found.

but the total still only totals 19.44m coins not 21m coins

your own scenario was not 8mill coins. nor about 8mill users of less then 2.625. you categorically set the math. so stick to it
it was 8 mill chosen cult members of your believed cultship you want to set up, each holding 2.625btc each which would be 21m

and actually there are many many millions of average users that have CEX accounts. you just wanted to start a religious cult of only 8million people which you want to lead where you call micheal saylor your messiah/prophet

..
why is it that idiots that want to be cult leaders try setting up their dream scenarios but then forget their own messages and start arguing about their own scenario by pretending they never said it even though this very forum is the written proof of their message,

your not the first, you wont be the last. but if you cant even remember your own stance on things, try reading your own post history and other peoples replies. rather then making crap up pretending you didnt say what you opened the topic saying.

if your not happy with your own topic and you dont like the scenario you set. close the topic/lock the topic and start something that is more rational. dont play the idiot that forgot your own topics scenario just to argue your way into hopes of generating a fanbase into a cult of people that agree with you

[KalOlak]

but the total still only totals 19.44m coins not 21m coins

your own scenario was not 8mill coins. nor about 8mill users of less then 2.625. you categorically set the math. so stick to it
it was 8 mill chosen cult members of your believed cultship you want to set up, each holding 2.625btc each which would be 21m

and actually there are many many millions of average users that have CEX accounts. you just wanted to start a religious cult of only 8million people which you want to lead where you call micheal saylor your messiah/prophet

..
why is it that idiots that want to be cult leaders try setting up their dream scenarios but then forget their own messages and start arguing about their own scenario by pretending they never said it even though this very forum is the written proof of their message,

your not the first, you wont be the last. but if you cant even remember your own stance on things, try reading your own post history and other peoples replies. rather then making crap up pretending you didnt say what you opened the topic saying.

if your not happy with your own topic and you dont like the scenario you set. close the topic/lock the topic and start something that is more rational. dont play the idiot that forgot your own topics scenario just to argue your way into hopes of generating a fanbase into a cult of people that agree with you

You take into account the current Bitcoin supply, and I take into account the maximum Bitcoin supply because I have children, and I plan to play this game for several centuries, benefiting my future generations.

[Kakmakr]

No, there are already too many misinformed people saying that Bitcoin are the "New World Order's" ...One Currency.  (Conspiracy theory) and also that Bitcoiners are a Cult and they are religious fanatics with Libertarian goals to take over the government. 

Bitcoin is a technology for EVERYONE ..... not a selected few, with enough money to buy and hoard 2.625 Bitcoins.... and the whole idea behind this technology....are to remove the barrier to entry for poor people to have access to the financial market. 

[KalOlak]

No, there are already too many misinformed people saying that Bitcoin are the "New World Order's" ...One Currency.   (Conspiracy theory) and also that Bitcoiners are a Cult and they are religious fanatics with Libertarian goals to take over the government.  

Bitcoin is a technology for EVERYONE ..... not a selected few, with enough money to buy and hoard 2.625 Bitcoins.... and the whole idea behind this technology....are to remove the barrier to entry for poor people to have access to the financial market.  

I don't like to overload chats with formulas, let's consider a simple example.

The Problem of the Three Widows from the Talmud. The solution to this problem was known to ancient Jews for several thousand years. For many centuries, this solution was perceived as a religious dogma.

However, mathematically, this problem was only proven in the 1980s.

The question is as follows: Is the proposed solution to the problem in the Talmud a religion/cult or a strategy?

https://www.coursehero.com/file/ppsi9d/112-Bankruptcy-Figure-116-Three-widows-in-dispute-over-how-the-estate-of-their/

[Litzki1990]

Those who have bitcoins use their bitcoin exchange like money like money goes from one hand to another, bitcoins are transferred from one person to another in case of need in real terms there is no loss of bitcoins or the amount of bitcoins in the market will never decrease. But people don't hold onto their bitcoins like you said. Even if you don't hold on to bitcoins as you planned, we expect bitcoin's value to increase substantially at some point through the transfer of bitcoins from one person to another. Bitcoin is currently increasing its popularity users and value in certain steps. It is estimated that by 2024 the price of Bitcoin will go to a very good state between $50000 to $70000 we can see the price of Bitcoin in 2024.

[KalOlak]

Those who have bitcoins use their bitcoin exchange like money like money goes from one hand to another, bitcoins are transferred from one person to another in case of need in real terms there is no loss of bitcoins or the amount of bitcoins in the market will never decrease. But people don't hold onto their bitcoins like you said. Even if you don't hold on to bitcoins as you planned, we expect bitcoin's value to increase substantially at some point through the transfer of bitcoins from one person to another. Bitcoin is currently increasing its popularity users and value in certain steps. It is estimated that by 2024 the price of Bitcoin will go to a very good state between $50000 to $70000 we can see the price of Bitcoin in 2024.

The total Bitcoin supply on exchange balances less than 1 million Bitcoin. Actually many players still just hold as I say and you can see it.

https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html

[dothebeats]

No, that is surely not a good idea. I mean there are already a lot of conspiracy theories regarding our community that revolves around us being a cult or "the new world order", if we start doing this then we are surely just feeding those ideas. Moreover, why make things so complicated? Bitcoin is already doing a massive change in the world, why do we need to apply these changes you are stating, only to make things complicated for us.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Well OP, there is nothing to argue here, such as this which you have assumed can never be possible, and i think franky1 has pretty much explained why can never happen, and just to add based on my little knowledge of how the market works, if 8 million people around the world come together to buy up the entire supply of bitcoin, remember that the more bitcoin is bought, the higher the price goes, so for this 8 million people to buy up the entire 21 million coins, means they will have to spend quadrillions upon quadrillions of dollars and still, will not acquire the entire bitcoins available in the market.
And remember that the bitcoin block explorer is always open and visible for people to search and see what is truly happening, some blockchain forensic experts will definitely find out that its just 8 million addresses accumulating bitcoin.

What is the negative side to this? the negative side is that, first, the price of bitcoin will become so high, and with the knowledge of the fact that its just 8 million addresses accumulating bitcoin and not selling, many will become afraid to buy because they do not know the motive of the owners of this addresses, and when people stop buying because the price have become too expensive, there will be no market for bitcoin just like franky1 said, people will channel their investments to alternative crypto assets instead, and when this happens, even the 8 million people that are holding the entire supply of bitcoin will find it difficult to convert their bitcoin to usd or any other coin without doing so at a great loss.

[KalOlak]

No, that is surely not a good idea. I mean there are already a lot of conspiracy theories regarding our community that revolves around us being a cult or "the new world order", if we start doing this then we are surely just feeding those ideas. Moreover, why make things so complicated? Bitcoin is already doing a massive change in the world, why do we need to apply these changes you are stating, only to make things complicated for us.

You're promoting online casinos. The casino's strategy is very simple. Any casino game, any slot machine, is programmed in a way that the casino's clients have fewer chances of winning than losing. Let's take roulette with a single zero and black/red bets, where the probability of winning is ~48% against ~52% of losing (and on some roulette wheels, there can even be two zeros). Thus, according to the law of large numbers, the casino always wins.

I propose a strategy that gives a ~98% chance of winning and a ~2% chance of losing. However, you still consider this not a very good idea. Perhaps, what hinders your thinking is that you are interested in people losing in your casino and not adopting my strategy for extended winnings.

[ginsan]

The painting "Savior of the World" (Salvador Mundi) is sold once every few centuries, but that doesn't mean it has no price and  doesn't mean it has no demand.

So that's in contrast to what you said before. I mean if an organization you are talking about buys bitcoins and doesn't sell them will it make the price go up whereas we see every day there are always sellers and there are always buyers. Don't you see that this opportunity would not be possible if you still believed you would be able to gather 8 million people for the same thought.

A painting is a work of art that will be valuable according to the year it was made. Meanwhile, Bitcoin is digital money which is the easiest option to make payments than fiat in today's modern era.

In essence, a conspiracy will not progress if there is no way to address a big meaning of what they are building.

[KalOlak]

The painting "Savior of the World" (Salvador Mundi) is sold once every few centuries, but that doesn't mean it has no price and  doesn't mean it has no demand.

So that's in contrast to what you said before. I mean if an organization you are talking about buys bitcoins and doesn't sell them will it make the price go up whereas we see every day there are always sellers and there are always buyers. Don't you see that this opportunity would not be possible if you still believed you would be able to gather 8 million people for the same thought.

A painting is a work of art that will be valuable according to the year it was made. Meanwhile, Bitcoin is digital money which is the easiest option to make payments than fiat in today's modern era.

In essence, a conspiracy will not progress if there is no way to address a big meaning of what they are building.

Bitcoin is a work of math that might be valuable regardless of the year it was mined.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

These individuals, who have gone through natural selection and acquired 2.625 Bitcoins on the market, could unite, for example, in a religious Order, and gain the chance to change the world order. This trend is already emerging today.

I can see that you are either overthinking or overimagining the whole thing about Bitcoin, which is not really good because your idea is not what will happen. I was even shocked to see that you are concluding that your imagination is already taking place. How do you believe or think that only a few people can hold down Bitcoin because of some kind of religious belief? First, you should ask yourself if the whole world is practising one religion, or perhaps do you only suggest that it's just a few individuals that are in the same religion that will accumulate all the Bitcoin? It's never been possible, and it's not becoming possible any day.

[KalOlak]

These individuals, who have gone through natural selection and acquired 2.625 Bitcoins on the market, could unite, for example, in a religious Order, and gain the chance to change the world order. This trend is already emerging today.

I can see that you are either overthinking or overimagining the whole thing about Bitcoin, which is not really good because your idea is not what will happen. I was even shocked to see that you are concluding that your imagination is already taking place. How do you believe or think that only a few people can hold down Bitcoin because of some kind of religious belief? First, you should ask yourself if the whole world is practising one religion, or perhaps do you only suggest that it's just a few individuals that are in the same religion that will accumulate all the Bitcoin? It's never been possible, and it's not becoming possible any day.

Allow me to answer your question with a question. Strictly speaking, Bitcoin can be "printed" by changing just one line of its source code. And if 51% of miners reach a consensus around this version of Bitcoin, we could indeed increase the maximum supply to 30 million or 50 million. So, why is the number 21 million significant? Is it some kind of religious belief?

Code:

/** The amount of satoshis in one BTC. */
static constexpr CAmount COIN = 100000000;

/** No amount larger than this (in satoshi) is valid.
 *
 * Note that this constant is *not* the total money supply, which in Bitcoin
 * currently happens to be less than 21,000,000 BTC for various reasons, but
 * rather a sanity check. As this sanity check is used by consensus-critical
 * validation code, the exact value of the MAX_MONEY constant is consensus
 * critical; in unusual circumstances like a(nother) overflow bug that allowed
 * for the creation of coins out of thin air modification could lead to a fork.
 * */
static constexpr CAmount MAX_MONEY = 21000000 * COIN;