Bitcoin Forum

Hi BitcoinTalk Community,



I was exploring one of the oldest crypto casino websites FortuneJack and normally I play games like Dice/Mines and some others so i went and started to check them out on the site and what i discovered that 99% of them are NOT provably fair. They give you Client/Server seed but there is no way to calculate the result of your game. So i tried using third party ones like stake and some other ones and none of them gave me the same result. I went ahead and contacted support and they confirmed that for now they dont have a script to calculate the actual result of the game. Which means that all of their games that are advertised "Provably fair" are actually not fair at all and as much as we know they could be manipulating the outcomes.


I am attaching the screenshots of the conversation with support proving my point.

https://i.imgur.com/dpkXiL6.png

https://i.imgur.com/jOndt9l.png

https://i.imgur.com/LdBAVRL.png

I think you missed the part where they confirmed that they don't have a script to calculate the hash? Perhaps on the first screenshot? Given your first and third are the same one [the chronology hinted that the order of the screenshot is as what I posted below and what's missing should be the first one. Can you please reupload that part of the conversation?

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/12/18/EDx1g.png https://talkimg.com/images/2023/12/18/EDWIC.png https://talkimg.com/images/2023/12/18/EDe5b.png

Edit: adding the first image

My bad i have updated the original post with the correct screenshot


https://i.imgur.com/dpkXiL6.png

I understand that one of your issue is with their mines? I might be wrong, but there was a case with Stake [not with FJ] where the complainant [the complaint was not valid, though] argued that their mines are rigged, upon being tested by multiple people through their provable platform, it actually gave fair results. It might be a simple misunderstanding, I'll hail FJ's representative to give their insight on this issue, please be patient for a moment and give them time to notice my PM

Thanks for notifying them. I have been involved in crypto gambling business since 2014 so i have pretty good understanding how provably fair should work. I hope that I am somehow wrong but even their team confirming that there is no way to check the fairness is very concerning. I am interested in what the representative will say. Also not just issue with mines but with their "cyber dice" and all other games actually. All the original games they have. Except the original standard dice game, that one i was able to confirm. Everything else is not confirmable and confirmed by the team that it is not and in the future they will work on it lol. Pretty unacceptable response for casino claiming that all of their games are provably fair.

Stake is a different casino where the algorithms are different to calculate the result. Both Primedice and Stake are owned by the same team, where you won't be able to verify the result of one site dice game on the other site. Anyway, FortuneJack has described a method in the FAQ page of dice game to calculate the roll number. I haven't checked whether the described method is appropriate or not, but you may try that. For now, you may also use the "Provably Fair Verifier of BTCGOSU (https://www.btcgosu.com/tools/provably-fair-verifier/)" to verify your dice game result of FortuneJack.

Hey,

Thanks for response. I am aware that casinos use different algorithms which is normal. What is not normal is Fortunejack not describing publicly which algorithm to use for most of their "provably fair" games. The only one they have described in their FAQ is for regular classic dice game that they have. That one is CORRECT and is verifiable. All other games like cyberdice/mines/keno/video poker all of those are unverifiable with same algorithm or any other algorithms provided by 3rd party websites like BTCGOSU one you mentioned. They also don't mention any specific scripts to verify those and have confirmed in chat that they dont provide them.

Hello everyone,


We are aware of the case and are communicating directly with the OP.


Here's a brief update: Despite the fact that Orbital is an independent company and the issue mentioned is not directly FortuneJack's responsibility, we have already reached out to the Orbital team and have requested the addition of bet verifiers to every PF game as soon as possible


For now, we will manually verify one of the games with the OP, and I believe he will update you with his final decision.


Cheers,



tokash

Tokash has provided me with the script to verify their "cyberdice" provably fair game. The script seems to check out and the game is 100% provably fair. I believe other provably fair games on fortunejack are most likely fair, however Fortunejack should provide scripts for every provably fair game that they have. Tokash has informed me that next week all of the scripts should be posted on all of their games. I will update the thread once this is done.

Do you know since when they have added those so-called "provably fair" games? They seem to still be here, I think it would be more professional and customer friendly to remove them from the "Provably fair" section or to change the title of the page because if finally Orbital is unable to provide scripts to check the fairness of the games, it would turn to be, at least, a misleading presentation to customers.

https://i.ibb.co/Jr91X1V/image.png

From what I inferred of what Tokash said, the solution offered by FJ is by having Orbital to add verifiers for those provably fair games on their platform in a short time, as opposed to removing the games.

Seems like a fair solution as long as it is done in a timely manner

The most fair and professional one would have been to put those games into another section in the meantime or to remove them IMO, because customers are still playing them thinking they are provably fair while they aren't currently. In addition it's a little bit weird from a team to take so much time to give a checking script for Provably fair game, they didn't think any player would ask it one day?

FortuneJack and newblackbetty, can either of you confirm if the provably fair issue with orbital already cleared and they provide a provable verifier? I am currently composing a thread about cases, I'd really appreciate if any of you can update us on the situation for this case so I can know whether to mark this thread as resolved or as others.

It will be interesting to read when you complete the thread. It seems the OP has not written again therefore it could be the outcome was acceptable for him.

Keeping that aside, overall with casinos and gaming websites, if they are using independent companies via their website they really should already have had a verifiers system in place for every provably fair game as it removes any question marks their customers could have.

I hope you're not expecting anything too fancy, it's basically just a "better arranged" compilation from this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5480413.0), LOL. I still occasionally pull my hair and considering to decorate my screen with some crack during the process, though.

On to this case, I previously tried to "verify" myself by going into FJ's site, but it seems I need to have an account to access their PF game, and I don't have one, so I ended up asking. And yes, I think it's safe to say it's fixed, given Tokash said it'll happen in a week, few weeks ago. Nonetheless, I prefer to have a written statement from any of them confirming this. And thus, if I still haven't heard from any of them until when I finished my draft, I am marking it as "on process" for probably a week or two before changing them to "resolved"

OP has just open an account here in December to report this case but he hasn't posted anything since christmas, so I guess he has just moved on and he's now playing at other games on another casino, sadly.  :-\
I think other users could check it since FortuneJack is one of the oldest crypto casino(online since 2014) so many crypto gamblers have an account there, but personally I didn't find such script or algorithm anywhere. There is an (brief) overall explanation of what is Provably fair gaming but without any details. They don't even tell which type of hash function they are using to get the server seed hash, so we can't even check by ourselves if the server seed revealed is really the previous hashed one. And since we don't know the algorithm used to get the outcome from those seeds and the nonce, we can't check anything.

Give yourself some credit, I am sure the list will be far more important than the cosmetics. It would good to see how many issues are raised and how many (as well as how they) get resolved, satisfactorily or otherwise.

In general, when it comes to provably fair I do feel even with third-party providers the onus should be on the host platform to provide a verification mechanism. I do not know if that is the case with any of the casinos being promoted in the forum including FortuneJack but marking anything down as resolved before at least one party confirms the situatiion seems premature considering the effort that will go in to compiling your thread.

Do you mean there is no such thing as provably fair?

Hi,

FJ has provided me with script to verify the "Cyberdice game" which seems to be accurate and provably fair, however there are many other provably fair games on their website that i have still not been provided with scripts to verify any of their fairness. Also all these scripts should be included on the website otherwise players wont be able to verify. For Now the only game out of all provably fair ones that i was able to verify was the cyberdice.

Thank you for this.

It might be wise to inform you as a head-start that I will mark this case as "invalid" in my summary. Please understand that it's not because your accusation is not backed by substantial supporting evidence, it's rather because the case is not the casino's fault and out of their hand. It will belong to a category of "invalid" according to the criteria I set under each category. I'll make sure I add a link to this very post on that entry so people can better understand your case.

And, FortuneJack, will you perhaps consider Saint-loup's suggestion until Orbital provide their PF verificator?

Thank you for the update bro, but is the script available online and they've sent you a link towards it or did they just sent you the script through email? It's surprising to be so unprofessional, why don't they include the script or a link towards it in the game? When we go to the settings of the game there is a "Provably Fair" section but it only shows the client seed, the server seed hash, the nonce and the previous server seed. Could you confirm the hash function for the server seed hash is SHA256 like most provably fair games, btw?

Hi Saint,

Yes it's SHA256. They just sent me the script through codepen. It is still not officially mentioned anywhere on the website and all the other games are still unverifiable and i haven't got scripts for any of the other games. I was also able to find a bug with Orbital's cyberdice with their server seed and got $150 reward for reporting it (Was hoping it to be a bit more to be honest), once i tried to withdraw it they wouldn't let me do it without going through KYC even though I asked tokash to make an exception because all i was doing was helping them fix a bug and not even gambling on their website. I was denied that and I decided not to go through the whole KYC process for $150. I was definitely Disappointed.

To be honest I don't play much there, because I've also been disappointed with their bonuses/promotions and their support unfortunately, the withdrawal threshold (while charging withdrawing fees) which has been even higher than currently IIRC is also not very welcoming. So I'm not surprising by what you are saying. Anyway thanks for this information about the SHA256 hash function, people will at least be able to check if the previous server seed matches with the hash seed given, even if I don't think they will add a checking method not anytime soon, sadly.

I noticed there are many bugs in their provably fair games and even some possible big exploits, but i stopped testing and spending my time on their games just because the bounty rewards for helping them fix bugs is so low and even then they aren't letting me withdraw bounty reward unless i provide them full KYC.


My background is testing crypto casinos and crypto exchanges security. So i'm pretty good at this stuff but no point spending my time helping FJ to fix bugs.

Thank you for keeping us updated, OP.
Am wondering what's the point of advertising a game as provably fair when you don't provide a tool (be it on the casino itself or on third party website) to verify the results!
Regarding the $150 reward, honestly, I don't see any reason to ask for kyc if you are going to withdraw it without using it to play there!

I completely agree. The Casino should provide a way to verify each provably fair game. Otherwise its pointless to label them provably fair (even if they all are). It's strange I kept asking them to let me cash it out without KYC but they strongly disagreed and told me i had to either KYC to withdraw or play with the $150 on the site.

Were they previously provable? Like, only recently orbital's game were not verifiable, perhaps because they update their game's script or something that messed up their previous PF script?

Who knows. Hard to tell if game script wasn't changed once i requested them to provide provably fair script.

Spribe aviator is doing the same

Hello Everyone,


Firstly, a sincere thank you to everyone for your active involvement, valuable feedback, and the time you've invested.


I'm glad to announce that verifiers have been successfully integrated into every PF game. You can now easily verify the fairness of each game by accessing the codepen.io link provided in the game settings.


We kindly request you to test it and share your feedback with us. Your insights are greatly appreciated and are of significant importance to the FortuneJack Team.


Cheers,


tokash | Community Team Lead

I appreciate the effort to keep the forum updated about this and promptly push Orbital to provide their PF script once asked. It shows sign of professionalism.

OP, can you help us confirm if this issue with Orbital's game is solved and their game can now be verified? I'll mark the case as resolved with your confirmation

I see that verification has been added to all of the games. I will be testing them out tomorrow.


However, All my past bets on all of the games have been deleted/cleared. Unable to verify any of my past games. Kinda strange huh?  ???


https://imgur.com/a/fgsIWQ8

Is it just the ones from Orbital's bet or every single past bets on FJ, from every game provider, are not retrievable? Perhaps it's a temporary issue when they tried to add the new script of PF into their system.

You are dealing with some of nastiest people out there. I would rather not engage in anything with those involved with FortuneJack. Go check this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5449674.0

And the thread of my scam accusation: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5368279.msg58302543#msg58302543
The photos are in the old format so no longer available, I don't know when I'll have time to put them back, but all bets description is in there.

They've always at some point or another, deleted bet history for some players. I happened to catch them with their hand in my pocket. I always used to call their supposedly "provably fair games", the "probably fair games".