Bitcoin Forum

>You will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography.

Yes, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own.

It is possible that Sparrow will be the next target.

"IRS-CI Special Agent in Charge Thomas Fattorusso said: “$2 billion in transactions with an unlicensed money transmitter means $2 billion flowed without any oversight, from whomever to wherever.  Because of the company’s disregard for regulation, it’s alleged that Samourai Wallet laundered more than $100 million in criminal proceeds"

I guess the chance is now 100% ;D

It is possible that Sparrow will be the next target.

So my question is, since the feds control the website, is there a way to control the software that has already been downloaded to users' computers? I guess not.

Transactions are not unlawful cause you cannot trace the flow of the transaction. The $2 bliiion seems to have just been thrown in there for shock value, giving them a justification to clamp down on the service.

But they were greedy to clamp down Binance which was alleged for money laundering, bank fraud, sanctions violation and others. Binance paid 4 billion and still existing.

R.I.P. Samourai.

If there is conjoin campaigs on this forum, theymos could have been planning to ban the conjoin campaigns. But not necessary because there is no conjoin campaign on this forum anymore.

It is possible that Sparrow will be the next target.

But they were greedy to clamp down Binance which was alleged for money laundering, bank fraud, sanctions violation and others. Binance paid 4 billion and still existing. Most money received through illegal activities are in their banks that their central bank being the head.

So, I reckon that the whirlpool servers will go down. I also believe that there will be no more support for the products (samourai & sentinel).

Another privacy enhancing tool goes down the road. Apparently, the governments use everything in their disposal to undermine the users' privacy. Samourai team

Sorry friends and @BlackHatCoiner but I have a question, I see that the US government have brought down a few Bitcoin mixers and some platforms too that support Bitcoins privacy for user but my question is, does it mean that the US government can shot down any sit or platform that they want even if that site or platform is not operated or was  not designed and managed by a US citizen?

Take for example, if Samourai Wallet was being designed by a black man somewhere in Africa and the platform was open to be used by anybody around the world (across other countries), can the government still shot it down?

Take for example, if Samourai Wallet was being designed by a black man somewhere in Africa and the platform was open to be used by anybody around the world (across other countries), can the government still shot it down?

Are we understanding why privacy needs to be implemented at the protocol level yet?

I don’t know how Samourai Wallet worked but my understanding from what I’m reading is that there is potentially up to 700 million dollars now under Fed control as a result of this? Are the users the ones who have had their funds confiscated? If so, is there any hope for recovery?

Coinjoins aren't custodial, so there's no funds they can seize. The Feds are only able to access the data of Samourai's users since their wallet was designed to collect xpub addresses and IP addresses by default.

Is there another wallet that would support whirlpool transactions from samurai? I was in the process of using whirlpool but it's not possible to connect to it anymore. It just provides an error. How would I continue with my conjoin or worst case, withdraw my funds?

Samourai Wallet had something called Whirlpool with nearly 700 million dollars in it. This is now shut down and under the control of the feds. This is what I was referencing.

Again, I’m not sure how it all works, but there are definitely funds that have been seized or frozen in some fashion. I give you exhibit A of this below:

EDIT:

Managed to withdraw my funds from whirlpool. You'll have to use Sparrow wallet and import your seed + passphrase.

It is possible that Sparrow will be the next target. Only what the government will look for is allegation.

Well, it's a fact that this kind of news is never good for the community. And it is regrettable that we are reaching this type of situation that the authorities have been promoting.

But we also have to note that they were the ones who put themselves in the sights of the authorities:
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/04/25/rUZxP.png

They invited Russians who were being penalized by the authorities because of the war to use their services to evade the sanctions. Without a doubt, it was a matter of time before the authorities caught up.

I'm curious if someone really affected here like their funds got locked because there are ways to withdraw your funds from Samourai wallet, I hope some will be able to do it.

Feds are against everything that we do as crypto users and whatever makes them suspicious of privacy, they will just stop that thing.

It's the first time I'm hearing that feds have seized a wallet which is somewhat insane but it was expected by many users.

I believe that in near future we may see feds seizing many swap platforms as those are allowing rug-pulls or you can say rug-pulls are operating on those platforms by scamsters.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/04/25/rUZxP.png

They invited Russians who were being penalized by the authorities because of the war to use their services to evade the sanctions. Without a doubt, it was a matter of time before the authorities caught up.

They invited Russians who were being penalized by the authorities because of the war to use their services to evade the sanctions. Without a doubt, it was a matter of time before the authorities caught up.

Even though I know I've back up my seed phrase, but I'm still scared when I see this news lol.

Binance pleaded guilty to all of the charges that was filed against them, the same as their former ceo CZ who also pleaded guilty. So i reckon that in their own case they knew they were doing so many things wrong.
Too bad that another privacy solution has been brought down, the U.S. government wants to make it very difficult for people to use Bitcoin without exposing data that they can be tracked with. It is sad, but the fight for privacy is looking like a fight that we cannot win.

Privacy is a fight that we can never win.

Such news is a source of concern because nobody knows the next wallet that will be attacked. The government wouldn't stop until they make privacy a scarce commodity.

Another privacy enhancing tool goes down the road. Apparently, the governments use everything in their disposal to undermine the users' privacy. Samourai team had recently announced that they were developing a decentralized version of whirlpool, using the Soroban network. It could be the case that they foresaw their own disappearance.

Why do we have to care about coinjoin/mixing services?

Because your bitcoins are being traced by arbitrary analysis companies as we speak, in order to find any taint on them which any cooperating exchange will then freeze as soon as you make a deposit, without you even knowing about said taint.

Do you think coin mixing is the answer to this problem? If you use mixers, then the exchanges will freeze your funds again because now your coins are coming from a mixer.

But we also have to note that they were the ones who put themselves in the sights of the authorities:

This is almost what Samourai was doing, minus the "decentralized" part since all their coinjoin transactions were coming from their own server. But if you have the ability to set up decentralized coinjoins with a reserve of something like 1BTC then it becomes near impossible to track the ins and outs of them all - especially if dozens of people with 1BTC start their own coinjoin coordinators.

I can still access https://docs.samourai.io/
Privacy app developers should remain anonymous.

[ img width=700]https://talkimg.com/images/2024/04/25/raZA1.jpeg[/img]

Does it still sound like a conspiracy theory?

Privacy will be gone completely in a few years. We will be sharing our cars and homes with strangers. I already share my country with millions of illegals thanks to the US politics in the Middle East. Make a google search and see which country hosts the most refugees(!).

The US has been taking thousands from the Mexican border.

These things happen because of the evil globalist fucks like Klaus Schwab.

… And I'm sure that there are some WEF-affiliated people in governments, the IMF, World Bank and others and also rich people who attend Davos meetings who give donations to said people.

But we also have to note that they were the ones who put themselves in the sights of the authorities:
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/04/25/rUZxP.png

They invited Russians who were being penalized by the authorities because of the war to use their services to evade the sanctions. Without a doubt, it was a matter of time before the authorities caught up.

--snip--
Just get a Monero wallet and start using Monero. Why do we have to care about coinjoin/mixing services?

I'm curious if someone really affected here like their funds got locked because there are ways to withdraw your funds from Samourai wallet, I hope some will be able to do it.

We can't say because privacy is good for us that everyone in the world will use it right, samourai wallet is a dangerous piece of technology if it gets into the wrong hands, so I like the fact that they made it stop, o my God knows how many bad people have use its features for their own reasons.

Wait until you see Kruw circlejerking in this thread if he hasn't done so already elsewhere :(

Samourai wallet operated a centralized coordinator and everyone who still had their funds inside said coordinator at the time it was shut down (if it had even been shut down) lost money.

Does it still sound like a conspiracy theory?

These things happen because of the evil globalist fucks like Klaus Schwab.

Make money private by default = Monero.
Just sayin.

I can still access https://docs.samourai.io/
Privacy app developers should remain anonymous.


I think this was a stupid move, especially since domain and servers were in Iceland, which gave governments a compelling reason to look behind them.
https://talkimg.com/images/2024/04/25/raaR9.png

I wonder if they had cooperated with Chainalysis or any blockchain analysis service, would the same charges have been brought against them? Or is the definition of privacy limited to those who appear to government agencies?

Coinjoins aren't custodial, so there's no funds they can seize. The Feds are only able to access the data of Samourai's users since their wallet was designed to collect xpub addresses and IP addresses by default.

As if it wasn't possible to use it over Tor since 2019, or a VPN.

I know. Samourai deleted the issue I opened in their Gitlab to have this information hidden from them by default: https://web.archive.org/web/20230417145554/https://code.samourai.io/wallet/samourai-wallet-android/-/issues/458

They said they would not even add a warning. Now the Feds got everything.

Bitcointalk people were already forseing this when they forbid conjoin campaigns in te forum...

The authorities may have found the data of the centralized Whirlpool coordinator, but this should not affect Samourai wallet.

What makes you think that they are not going to target Wasabi next?

Targeting Wasabi what for? They're not even a honeypot. They're officially paying for mass surveillance software and their privacy software is broken. What else could the government ask for?

Targeting Wasabi what for? They're not even a honeypot. They're officially paying for mass surveillance software and their privacy software is broken. What else could the government ask for?

As if it wasn't possible to use it over Tor since 2019, or a VPN. Taking shots at your competitor even after they have been extinguished -- the kind of class I would expect from you.

Besides, nobody cares so long as you weren't sending money to North Korea-related or other watchlist addresses.

Can anyone see a silver lining?

You're lying, Wasabi's privacy software isn't broken. If you aren't lying, then prove it by tracing this Wasabi coinjoin:

Governments are not known to be very savvy, and with this recent anti-money laundering craze going on over there, it wouldn't surprise me if they see Wasabi as facilitating those kind of transactions. After all, they're the only large coordinator left now that Samourai's gone.

Considering their documentation[1] and how xpub[1] were handled when not using DOJO with Samourai Walelt can we assume that, in worst case scenario, the DOJ has access to every xpub and can trace the mixes that were done in the platform? I assume that is more private create a new wallet and then transfer the funds from Sparrow Wallet to it, instead of just importing them to another one...

Petter Todd gave a 50% chance Samurai Wallet was run by feds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPNFdhZUGmk

I guess the chance is now 100% ;D

RIP indeed, I hope the tech continues being used via open source anon development though

Coinjoin services are allowed. Mixers are not.

I personally can't. Samourai wasn't a custodial mixer, so that to say this seizure encouraged the adoption of self-custodial solutions, or whatever. Samourai was one of the best and cheap solutions to coinjoin most effectively and self-custodially. Now the second best, IMO, is XMR swap, and I dare to add, XMR in general as it embodies the true spirit of cypherpunks, which Bitcoin failed to. The only problem is that Bitcoin appreciates more in capital than Monero.

Okay, here's all the payments that can be tracked from the two new participants of the Whirlpool coinjoin transaction:

Entrant 1: bc1q03c0443ausjjdxl2h6ud5m8c0dux0zyg3dqdj7 created 0.00170417 BTC in unmixed change sent to bc1q3fduld0l3r8nclyt5p3r7ak675tekurstn55tl.  Since this UTXO is not private, the sats were marked as unspendable and have not been recovered by the wallet owner  :'( :'( :'(

Entrant 2: bc1qzc8zku26ej337huw5dlt390cy2r9kgnq7dhtys created 0.00191247 BTC in unmixed change sent to bc1qjlltxr443uy236wl4xhpxlr6dgsu0zltlv3m44. This UTXO was used in a second tx0 transaction, creating a huge trail of transactions that could be traced to each other  :o :o :o

The 2nd tx0 transaction created 0.00076348 BTC unmixed change which was sent to bc1qehd7gy8rza9mnzm9wnfjhgw82rp47wmqt7vpgy

Since this unmixed change is below the .001 pool minimum, it was consolidated in a 3rd tx0 with 3 other addresses owned by the same wallet:
31x8GPqrhzdaxiBJa9N5UisuoxbX1rAnHa
16Gw5WKjbxZmg1zhZQs19Sf61fbV2xGujx
3LZtsJfUjiV5EZkkG1fwGEpTe2QEa7CNeY

The 3rd tx0 transaction created .00200317 in unmixed change which was sent to bc1q2p7gdtyahct8rdjs2khwf0sffl64qe896ya2y5
This was spent in a 0.00190000 payment to 3B8cRYc3W5jHeS3pkepwDePUmePBoEwyp1 (a reused address)

That payment left .00008553 in change that was tracked to 3Dh7R7xoKMVfLCcAtVDyhJ66se82twyZSn and consolidated with two other inputs in a 4th tx0 transaction:
bc1qeuh6sds8exm54yscrupdk03jxphw8qwzdtxgde
3ByChGBFshzGUE5oip8YYVEZDaCP2bcBmZ

This 4th tx0 created .00533406 in unmixed change which was sent to bc1qzh699s75smwukg9jcanwnlkmkn38r79ataagd9 which was consolidated with 3 more addresses into a 5th tx0:
3F2qiWQJKQjF7XFjEo8FUYP3AU5AC6RqX8
3HAYYVKUpYbr2ARMdZJr9yVu8xi8UcxtPz
3GQtwwRK31wwCc22q6WS5sCgixUHsG5KaT

The 5th tx0 created 0.00058494 BTC in unmixed change that was sent to bc1qvh2zjcwwkj9y70xulla2semvlav3lty0p3l3w3
This was spent in a .00047290 payment to bc1qvzg8jq6wqtr5navn4e3ps4qrkk9r6n4h98gjck

That payment left .00008411 in change that was tracked to bc1qg6j0f0wfhpktt2l8uzdn48ct3um2xyur40eyzd and consolidated with another input into a 6th tx0 transaction:
31iZLXWfoywhuMZTPGxTkpzphzh2NXshpP

The 6th tx0 created .00753775 in unmixed change that was tracked to bc1qgfll2apc27yct6h2c8r8wq4kqhxjsfrudhhn5q
This was spent in a .00737000 payment to bc1q5emzer2t0sq5dez0zsrqgh6scvwn0n24xsladp (a reused address)

This payment left 0.00010896 BTC in change which has not been spent yet, but the payment only took place 11 days ago, so I assume it will eventually be spent, allowing the Whirlpool user to be tracked even further.

This is not another Wasabi thread. I'm not attempting to de-anonymize Wasabi,

all the evidence of people who used it and got caught (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5480440.0) speak for itself, but I know you'll blame the users that "they didn't use it correctly".

User "kayirigi" has posted a fake accusation of scamming against Wasabi Wallet:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5480440.0

This user, of course, "self moderated" the fake topic in order to prevent anyone from commenting honestly about these blatantly false accusations.


Do not let these obvious hit job accounts scare you out of using Bitcoin privately.  If someone you are transacting with "flags" your coinjoined funds, it is not due to "an issue with their implementation", it's because that person is requiring your data in order to transact with them.  Defy them, and become anonymous anyway.

They can shut it down so long as they believe the platform is being used by the criminals they hate the most, such as those North Korean hackers, to "launder" money through it.

OK, I believe this proves that the Samourai developers are NOT working for state actors, and the project itself is NOT a honeypot collecting information for intelligence agencies. This is a very sad day for Bitcoin privacy advocates. Kruw, some of your fellow developers were arrested, move on for today. Debate again tomorrow.

Well, it's a fact that this kind of news is never good for the community. And it is regrettable that we are reaching this type of situation that the authorities have been promoting.

But we also have to note that they were the ones who put themselves in the sights of the authorities:
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/04/25/rUZxP.png

They invited Russians who were being penalized by the authorities because of the war to use their services to evade the sanctions. Without a doubt, it was a matter of time before the authorities caught up.

Yes, the Russian move was a very bad idea and I am really surprised about it and I would like to know what was the reason for it.

Samourai Wallet has been taken down by the U.S. authorities: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/founders-and-ceo-cryptocurrency-mixing-service-arrested-and-charged-money-laundering. You can verify by opening samouraiwallet.com (it's under the authorities' control).

Another privacy enhancing tool goes down the road. Apparently, the governments use everything in their disposal to undermine the users' privacy. Samourai team had recently announced (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5489727.0) that they were developing a decentralized version of whirlpool, using the Soroban network. It could be the case that they foresaw their own disappearance.

Very frustrated. An important reminder and good quote is needed here.

R.I.P. Samourai.

Yes, the Russian move was a very bad idea and I am really surprised about it and I would like to know what was the reason for it.

Samourai Wallet has been taken down by the U.S. authorities: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/founders-and-ceo-cryptocurrency-mixing-service-arrested-and-charged-money-laundering. You can verify by opening samouraiwallet.com (it's under the authorities' control).

The first satoshi mined on Bitcoin after the halving, one of just four "epic sats" to date, fetched 33.3 BTC at auction. Here's why.

I think US government should also look closer at all that NFT money laundry industries.  Specially ordinals and Runes.

No one can convince me that this single satoshi is worth 2.1 million to anyone.  This is money laundry
https://decrypt.co/228084/bitcoin-epic-sat-halving-sells-over-2-1-million

OK, I believe this proves that the Samourai developers are NOT working for state actors, and the project itself is NOT a honeypot collecting information for intelligence agencies. This is a very sad day for Bitcoin privacy advocates. Kruw, some of your fellow developers were arrested, move on for today. Debate again tomorrow.

This is not another Wasabi thread. I'm not attempting to de-anonymize Wasabi, all the evidence of people who used it and got caught (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5480440.0) speak for itself, but I know you'll blame the users that "they didn't use it correctly".

Any user who shared their xpub should consider themselves traced already

I personally can't. Samourai wasn't a custodial mixer, so that to say this seizure encouraged the adoption of self-custodial solutions, or whatever. Samourai was one of the best and cheap solutions to coinjoin most effectively and self-custodially. Now the second best, IMO, is XMR swap, and I dare to add, XMR in general as it embodies the true spirit of cypherpunks, which Bitcoin failed to. The only problem is that Bitcoin appreciates more in capital than Monero.

Why do you think it's too early to say "I told you so"? Samourai deliberately designed their wallet to collect user data by default and lied about it: https://twitter.com/SamouraiWallet/status/1576923638846005248

I opened an issue to have a warning displayed to users about the data they are leaking, Samourai closed it and later deleted it: https://web.archive.org/web/20230417145554/https://code.samourai.io/wallet/samourai-wallet-android/-/issues/458

I've spent an enormous amount of time warning people about the risks involved with this exact outcome. Now whatever data Samourai had is within arms reach of the Feds.

Why do you think it's too early to say "I told you so"? Samourai deliberately designed their wallet to collect user data by default and lied about it: https://twitter.com/SamouraiWallet/status/1576923638846005248

I opened an issue to have a warning displayed to users about the data they are leaking, Samourai closed it and later deleted it: https://web.archive.org/web/20230417145554/https://code.samourai.io/wallet/samourai-wallet-android/-/issues/458

I've spent an enormous amount of time warning people about the risks involved with this exact outcome. Now whatever data Samourai had is within arms reach of the Feds.

We’ll have to wait and see if they are actually convicted of a crime.

Come back to us after you've disassociated yourself from Wasabi Wallet and then you can tell us "I told you so". Until then, your project is inside the giant crosshairs of the FBI: https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2024/PSA240425

You don't need shitcoins for privacy. Wasabi Wallet, BTCPay Server's coinjoin plugin, and Trezor's coinjoin account all provide privacy by default for Bitcoin.

From reading on this forum it sounds like people have a completely different idea of the services provided from what is in the fed documents. If what people here believe is true, it’s possible the devs will beat this case. I have my doubts though. This sort of seizure doesn’t typically happen unless there are mountains of evidence.

I'm not stopping you from having an opinion, or am I calling for you to stop posting what you believe is right and what you believe is the truth. I merely letting you understand that real people were arrested. They have families, and they don't want to be in their current situation.  I'm also asking you to PLEASE, keep quiet about Samourai for just a few days.

You may currently be annoyed by what I said, but I would tell other people to stop attacking Wasabi too if there were arrests made to their developers.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Come back to us after you've disassociated yourself from Wasabi Wallet and then you can tell us "I told you so".

Could you explain to us why you claim Monero is shitcoin? After all, Monero is one of few altcoins which usually not associated with such term.

Litecoin has a built-in privacy tool too. It is optional to use but it is there if you need it. That way litecoin has the best of the both worlds. It is not going to targeted by the government and businesses (they may not accept ltc that use mimble-wimble though) and it is not always semi-anonymous like bitcoin. You have a choice.

No need to use a 3rd party mixer/coincoin etc

https://www.elliptic.co/blog/explaining-mimblewimble-the-privacy-upgrade-to-litecoin?hs_amp=true

A viable alternative imo.

You may currently be annoyed by what I said, but I would tell other people to stop attacking Wasabi too if there were arrests made to their developers.

So, don't be surprised! More is on the way!

Mimblewimble doesn't provide privacy against an active observer since they can see all the transactions at the time they are created.

The data posted to blocks in the MimbleWimble blockchain doesn’t reveal any information on both the sender and receiver’s identification and transaction amounts. In fact, for an observer the information contained within a block looks like randomized data.

https://www.blockchainbeach.com/going-deep-on-privacy-mimblewimble-part-2/

How so?

People gave up on MimbleWimble because the privacy in practice doesn't work. The whole selling point was that transactions, which are just point multiplication, can be added together to obscure the graph.

The problem is, nodes snooping on the network are the ones who would aggregate them, and they can snoop on the individual transactions propagating before aggregation and undermine the privacy.

Lmao, what? This is a basic truth that anyone who knows anything about Bitcoin privacy has been warning about since Samourai began spying on their users' xpubs. There's vindication across the board:

You don't need Monero because you can transact privately on Bitcoin.

h/t Shinobi: https://twitter.com/brian_trollz/status/1780220196994617725

You are lying. I run a mixer directory and even I admit that crypto transactions cannot be made anonymous as long as you can draw a transaction graph of an address. [I.e. everything except for CryptoNote coins]

If you aren't lying, then prove it by tracing this Wasabi coinjoin: https://mempool.space/tx/bffa359a9d7908be069800e6bf471db1050496fc4fac40298b15c0d126202298

Prove it then. Tell me which inputs created which outputs in this Bitcoin transaction:

Why should I have to do it?

You are lying. I run a mixer directory and even I admit that crypto transactions cannot be made anonymous as long as you can draw a transaction graph of an address. [I.e. everything except for CryptoNote coins]

You are lying.

Those accusations are disingenuous and have been debunked numerous times already.

Prove it then. Tell me which inputs created which outputs in this Bitcoin transaction

Hey guys! Don't look at those cars of ours on the news which are on fire! Look at these 1,000 new ones we just made. Ohhh, shiny! ::)

At this point, you're making me quote him.

Okay then, I'll call your bluff again- Here's 20 non whale non matching outputs from WabiSabi coinjoins, try to identify the inputs owned by even a single one of the 20 outputs (which would be 5%):

01 bc1q032caguldmlrrztmrwhv5wqveyywdu2rtmd740
02 bc1q6vgwhsfkg343mmh27vc6prg3clsd4xu3p68vyd
03 bc1qre8jjpu8p9taw8j44r39z56vfr4sw64d4wyaj4
04 bc1qarharg76gfcrvskfw46f67vtqzd6hxa9pnspp5
05 bc1q4sexgt2p96x3ytnjjttp59w6mkj00kedal3xze
06 bc1qwrf50wpjws5mhdg2rhdu5hy7nqdtl8z94lp75n
07 bc1qz0tal2udfpr20x793fdw6v8lzp2qze7z5zje64
08 bc1qqw2h7fa3n8vyxgqru664fmft2trl9sqh9kz3fp
09 bc1qsud748whmum4gpt2qu52z8gqlgzcjyvhd5w2a5
10 bc1qctvxddyvxupjj8w82m8w5grzn59arstlrnaauw
11 bc1qq2fl05cmmhkr3pzg8elyr859v2fpcltynrk2j5
12 bc1qvwkrd3aecrvql5j8mqkmketvw6g6qwzt4juprq
13 bc1qhc2565fac4lrgyfq6n0mzc0l86jeptfnv2um9x
14 bc1qat6445gutyl3qdz3zhmdng9cdt92mevjlvaljs
15 bc1qk5f3mz0fetccey4nyyjedlrmqstkz2hmun96ha
16 bc1q4tpvm378a9d4n0xcnjtwfwujtr8eatjzvru8dx
17 bc1qd5epyjpj6vuejdppj24wew5n4n5rzepjx2xnay
18 bc1qgafud63me5mffn00g90ch08jjn5h20umzwxd62
19 bc1q5u3f2ldrtqa7ea79a8hcd8kssgw2gmalk4uej9
20 bc1qa6n7g7r4j3nv78gzgzmuvg56em4guppckqpz7r

Litecoin has a built-in privacy tool too. It is optional to use but it is there if you need it. That way litecoin has the best of the both worlds. It is not going to targeted by the government and businesses (they may not accept ltc that use mimble-wimble though) and it is not always semi-anonymous like bitcoin. You have a choice.

You can have privacy on-chain, it's just becoming more and more difficult. Joinmarket, for example, is decentralized coinjoin. But, I doubt it's getting the necessary recognition, and it's pretty expensive to be honest.

Was Samourai wallet a "privacy enhancing tool" or was it a money laundering tool? Or maybe it was both? ;D

It's funny how some people start whining about "the government taking away our privacy" every time some crypto mixing service gets banned/shut down for doing illegal stuff. I guess that some people think that the ability to conduct money laundering schemes and other illegal activities online is an integral part of their online privacy. Just get a Monero wallet and start using Monero. Why do we have to care about coinjoin/mixing services?

Edward Snowden said something interesting few days ago that money must be private by default, and that should not be illegal anywhere.

To create the kind of economy we want to create, there can be no perceivable connection to their economy.  For now, that is the only way to remain private.

h/t Shinobi: https://twitter.com/brian_trollz/status/1780220196994617725

If you aren't lying, then prove it by tracing this Wasabi coinjoin: https://mempool.space/tx/bffa359a9d7908be069800e6bf471db1050496fc4fac40298b15c0d126202298

Edward Snowden said something interesting few days ago that money must be private by default, and that should not be illegal anywhere.

How about you deanonymize a MW transaction? Let's see your skills in action.

Not sure that's a fair comparison since I would have to sync a node in order to even attempt this. There's no prerequisites to my challenge at all, these accusers against Wasabi are simply scammers, you can see here how I organized a ton of evidence against them proving how persistent they were targeting Wasabi users into getting scammed by Chipmixer: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5482198.0

So you are saying you can't deanonymize a MW tx? Chickened out? Do you at least know someone who can? No? Show me an example who did? No? Why are you talking about it then?

Because privacy education is important and people having a false sense of privacy is bad?

So you are saying you can't deanonymize a MW tx? Chickened out? Do you at least know someone who can? No? Show me an example who did? No? Why are you talking about it then?

You are claiming that MW isn't working but you can't show me an example which means you are lying and misinforming people. You call that education?

Why don't you provide everyone the unaggregated data from your own MW node then as an example?

I don't have to prove or provide anything. You are the one who claim MW isn't anonymous or its privacy can be broken. You should put your skills where your mouth is.

Okay, here's all the payments that can be tracked from the two new participants of the Whirlpool coinjoin transaction:

Entrant 1: bc1q03c0443ausjjdxl2h6ud5m8c0dux0zyg3dqdj7 created 0.00170417 BTC in unmixed change sent to bc1q3fduld0l3r8nclyt5p3r7ak675tekurstn55tl.  Since this UTXO is not private, the sats were marked as unspendable and have not been recovered by the wallet owner  :'( :'( :'(

Entrant 2: bc1qzc8zku26ej337huw5dlt390cy2r9kgnq7dhtys created 0.00191247 BTC in unmixed change sent to bc1qjlltxr443uy236wl4xhpxlr6dgsu0zltlv3m44. This UTXO was used in a second tx0 transaction, creating a huge trail of transactions that could be traced to each other  :o :o :o

The 2nd tx0 transaction created 0.00076348 BTC unmixed change which was sent to bc1qehd7gy8rza9mnzm9wnfjhgw82rp47wmqt7vpgy

Since this unmixed change is below the .001 pool minimum, it was consolidated in a 3rd tx0 with 3 other addresses owned by the same wallet:
31x8GPqrhzdaxiBJa9N5UisuoxbX1rAnHa
16Gw5WKjbxZmg1zhZQs19Sf61fbV2xGujx
3LZtsJfUjiV5EZkkG1fwGEpTe2QEa7CNeY

The 3rd tx0 transaction created .00200317 in unmixed change which was sent to bc1q2p7gdtyahct8rdjs2khwf0sffl64qe896ya2y5
This was spent in a 0.00190000 payment to 3B8cRYc3W5jHeS3pkepwDePUmePBoEwyp1 (a reused address)

That payment left .00008553 in change that was tracked to 3Dh7R7xoKMVfLCcAtVDyhJ66se82twyZSn and consolidated with two other inputs in a 4th tx0 transaction:
bc1qeuh6sds8exm54yscrupdk03jxphw8qwzdtxgde
3ByChGBFshzGUE5oip8YYVEZDaCP2bcBmZ

This 4th tx0 created .00533406 in unmixed change which was sent to bc1qzh699s75smwukg9jcanwnlkmkn38r79ataagd9 which was consolidated with 3 more addresses into a 5th tx0:
3F2qiWQJKQjF7XFjEo8FUYP3AU5AC6RqX8
3HAYYVKUpYbr2ARMdZJr9yVu8xi8UcxtPz
3GQtwwRK31wwCc22q6WS5sCgixUHsG5KaT

The 5th tx0 created 0.00058494 BTC in unmixed change that was sent to bc1qvh2zjcwwkj9y70xulla2semvlav3lty0p3l3w3
This was spent in a .00047290 payment to bc1qvzg8jq6wqtr5navn4e3ps4qrkk9r6n4h98gjck

That payment left .00008411 in change that was tracked to bc1qg6j0f0wfhpktt2l8uzdn48ct3um2xyur40eyzd and consolidated with another input into a 6th tx0 transaction:
31iZLXWfoywhuMZTPGxTkpzphzh2NXshpP

The 6th tx0 created .00753775 in unmixed change that was tracked to bc1qgfll2apc27yct6h2c8r8wq4kqhxjsfrudhhn5q
This was spent in a .00737000 payment to bc1q5emzer2t0sq5dez0zsrqgh6scvwn0n24xsladp (a reused address)

This payment left 0.00010896 BTC in change which has not been spent yet, but the payment only took place 11 days ago, so I assume it will eventually be spent, allowing the Whirlpool user to be tracked even further.

I do, since I have access to the data from Bitcoin nodes, I was easily able to deanonymize Whirlpool coinjoins:

Which one of these is a MW transaction? I am missing it probably. Old rusty can't see that well nowadays  8)

You are missing it: The unaggregated data of the MW transactions is observed from your node.

I don't have a node. What now? Setup your own and show us?

MW will offer pseudo privacy as before this history gets deleted those monitoring the network will be able to store the chain state, meaning even if values are hidden it is still possible to track user activity and interactions, so while yes, this will help with fungibility it is by no means perfect.

TL;DR: Mimblewimble’s privacy is fundamentally flawed. Using only $60/week of AWS spend, I was able to uncover the exact addresses of senders and recipients for 96% Grin transactions in real time.

Stop shitposting.

https://litecoin.com/en/news/the-litecoin-mimblewimble-extension-block-proposal-has-been-published


https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52

“We have to assume that the author conveniently confused transaction outputs (TXOs) with addresses, but these are not the same. And, as we’ve already detailed, the fact that TXOs can be linked is hardly news.”

Lehnberg’s critique of Bogatyy’s claims continues to address several further points, with his central line of argument — details aside — resting on the statement that:

“The Grin team has consistently acknowledged that Grin’s privacy is far from perfect. While transaction linkability is a limitation that we’re looking to mitigate as part of our goal of ever-improving privacy, it does not ‘break’ Mimblewimble nor is it anywhere close to being so fundamental as to render it or Grin’s privacy features useless.”

https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52

Grin Devs Respond: Mimblewimble Privacy Isn’t 'Fundamentally Flawed' (https://cointelegraph.com/news/grin-devs-respond-mimblewimble-privacy-isnt-fundamentally-flawed)

Does it even matter? For those individuals, of course but not for Bitcoin.

What this act achieves is scaring every programmer out there from even contributing to anything privacy related since they now know the anti-privacy dictatorship can traumatize them and their families like this. Not to mention all the huge legal fees these "programmers" have to pay.
Speaking of traumatizing families and legal fees, lets not forget this is not a new thing in USA. Lest we forget arrest of BurtW (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=934268.0) basically just because he was a bitcoin user...

just came across the following tweets from @freedomtech
which describes the fastest/most secure way to migrate all your funds from the Samourai wallet to the Sparrow wallet. you need 6 steps for this whole procedure and there is also a screen recording as a video guide for the whole process:
~

Samourai Wallet has been taken down by the U.S. authorities: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/founders-and-ceo-cryptocurrency-mixing-service-arrested-and-charged-money-laundering. You can verify by opening samouraiwallet.com (it's under the authorities' control).

Another privacy enhancing tool goes down the road. Apparently, the governments use everything in their disposal to undermine the users' privacy. Samourai team had recently announced (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5489727.0) that they were developing a decentralized version of whirlpool, using the Soroban network. It could be the case that they foresaw their own disappearance.

Very frustrated. An important reminder and good quote is needed here.

R.I.P. Samourai.

To be honest with you the world leaders are afraid of cryptocurrency they feel is a way of bringing down the value of there currency, so for a programmer it is advised to build a decentralized cryptocurrency just like Bitcoin in other to be in a save side.
The creator of Bitcoin is no were to be found no trace of him but what he created is growing bigger and stronger by the day and the reason behind it is that he built a decentralized cryptocurrency.
And believe me he would have been jailed if not that he disappeared.

what happens now to the money kept in those wallets?  ???

BTC's are not stored in wallets, but on the blockchain. Since it is a self custodial wallet, in which users are in control of their funds through their seed phrase, all they need to do is to import their wallet into a different software to access their funds. Nothing is lost.

Your funds can only be confiscated if you use a custodial service that holds the keys to your wallet.

There were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq prior to the US invading that country and taking down Saddam, right?  Right, guys??

Governments are the biggest liars, the biggest thieves (with banks in second place), and unfortunately since they make the laws and enforce them and instill fear in their citizens' hearts, they get to do whatever the fuck they want to. 

They hate everything they don’t control & it might get worse eventually. Don’t let this kind of thing scare you away from self custody though, they can’t take Bitcoin off you if they aren’t able to tell where it is. I hear there are a lot of unfortunate boating accidents happening lately.

what happens now to the money kept in those wallets?  ???

Nothing. Samourai is a non-custodial wallet.

If only there was a world where Governments are illegal.

Yes but it's a software, so if you download a malicious update made by someone who eventually took control of the project now leaders of the team have been arrested, it could create a transaction and send your funds elsewhere or steal your seed.

That's why you should always verify the signatures of your software! The feds have not compromised the private key(s) used to sign software releases.

Privacy is a fight that we can never win.

Unless you are a selfish person, even if this privacy thing is good for your daily use, have you ever thought about putting yourself in a shoe of a ruler? Will you want such to exist in your country without worries about someone funding terrorists and they are untraceable? You won't be able to sleep peacefully.

We can't say because privacy is good for us that everyone in the world will use it right, samourai wallet is a dangerous piece of technology if it gets into the wrong hands, so I like the fact that they made it stop, o my God knows how many bad people have use its features for their own reasons.

In a world where no one is completely clean it will be a disaster to have a way to move funds untraceable, even this day's people do bad things and they feel like it's good, a world without law is called lawless, and that's more like a hell on earth.

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/04/25/raZA1.jpeg

Does it still sound like a conspiracy theory?

Privacy will be gone completely in a few years. We will be sharing our cars and homes with strangers. I already share my country with millions of illegals thanks to the US politics in the Middle East. Make a google search and see which country hosts the most refugees(!).

The US has been taking thousands from the Mexican border.

These things happen because of the evil globalist fucks like Klaus Schwab.

Well as someone with a family full of conspiracy theorists who somehow came to the conclusion that covid was created by WEF, this is actually a very real and serious threat to Bitcoin, what they are doing right now. And I'm sure that there are some WEF-affiliated people in governments, the IMF, World Bank and others and also rich people who attend Davos meetings who give donations to said people.

I'm sure you remember when they tried to outlaw strong encryption and then people were printing the PGP source code on t-shirts, mugs and so on.

We need to channel that resistance because ultimately, code is free speech protected by the first amendment. You can't be held criminally liable just for writing it.

So it goes like this:

Dark market quality, best of the best, the hardest privacy, the choice of the drugsellers, money launderers and terrorists: Monero

>

Porn addicts, weirdos, pot buyers: Litecoin MW

>

Everyone else: btc

I’m am OK with MW :d

But that's unfair to make such classifications, no? What if a normal user likes Monero or Litecoin for coffee transactions because they're faster? Or because he/she simply likes the logos of those coins? https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/6yxkca3aae7.jpeg

"For everyone else", I believe Bitcoin could also be used for the utility of those other cryptocurrencies if you know what you're doing.

Obviously everybody is free to use whatever suits them the best. In fact Ltc makes more sense than the other two for coffee transactions since it is fast, cheap and is as widely adopted as btc.

I sorted them based on their privacy abilities. Monero is the most hardcore privacy oriented coin so people who demand the hardest privacy will use nothing but monero because it makes more sense. The biggest handicap of xmr is that it has low liquidity and that’s not a small problem. Especially when you want to cash out over a million usd. ;) People who demand the best privacy still prefer to use btc over monero because of that probably.

It doesn’t have to be this or that in the end. There is a place for many alts in this market.

Drifting a bit OT, but I don't think XMR has that low a liquidity. It's still trading $50 million a day. And it then follows that the more people use it the more that number will grow but people have to want to use it.
And I don't think a lot of people care about privacy as much as we think.

Drifting a bit OT, but I don't think XMR has that low a liquidity. It's still trading $50 million a day. And it then follows that the more people use it the more that number will grow but people have to want to use it.

No cryptocurrency can replace Bitcoin in trading volume in a long time. They can have very high trading volume that is higher than Bitcoin trading volume in one or some days but can not maintain it for too long time and never can take over Bitcoin in market cap or trading volume.

Monero with about $1.3B in trading volume last 30 days or as you said, $50M a day is good for trading and can satisfy criminals for money laundering. I could be wrong but criminals will not launder money with very big value within a day like more $B a day and Monero is good for their privacy and private transactions.

Liquidity problem is a myth, otherwise Bitcoin would never be worth more than $1 per coin.

The more people want to buy it, the higher the price will go - that's a "problem" that is self-resolving.

"A friend of a friend" had no problem selling and buying XMR in very large quantities, it took minutes.

Why are we going to presume that the mere fact that something is secret that it all of a sudden is being used mostly by criminals rather than for legitimate personal privacy reasons?  We would likely need more data if we are going to start to make those kinds of presumptions, and surely I understand some of the ideas of the slippery slope that also would include increase in trade volume that allows larger and larger players to come into the product.. so surely there are ongoingly going to be some challenges when the non-traceable services increase in their capacities.

How many millions did your friend of a friend sell / buy?

The article then goes to explain what Whirlpool means the rest of evidences already described before[2]. Goes to show that William was already being followed long before his arrival on Portugal.