Bitcoin Forum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1h0ejcJrXc

I just watched a video talking about Laptop Class where Elon sees working from home as moral issue. Curious to know what your take on this kind of view because there are actually people who also agree with him.  And some don't of course. It could be different in the Bitcoin community, just a Yes or No poll to answer, and sure thing it will be good to share your opinion on why you chose Yes or say No.

Everyone has different perspectives on how they view people who work from home. For me, anywhere you can work as long as you don’t become a setback to the company's goal, you are all good. There is nothing immoral about how the person uses the delivery service to the company.

Some people see working from home as immoral, as they believe they could be distracted and won’t be there when they are needed in the office, and there will be a lack of professionalism in their mode of work.

What it has anything to do with the moral values?

Work from home is the new normal and it's the fact that we can't change and that's what the evolution of internet will lead to anyway sooner or later if COVID hasn't interfered in midway and forced everyone to work from their place.

Work from home is actually good for the company too, they no need skyscraper offices, no need to spend huge money in electricity bills and work at everyone's convenience.

His statement was that working from home is morally wrong and he has his reason for his position. I know working from home can reduce productivity which is why many companies like Amazon and Salesforce are forcing workers to return to offices. For me, it will be morally wrong to work from home if your employer's is that you should work in the office. I don't see any problem if people decide to work from home if the company permits it. What is important is for the worker to be productive or perform his task effectively and efficiently. I don't take Elon Must seriously because he is a typical example of a modern-day slave Master.


There are concerns that productivity is reduced when workers work from home. Working from the office makes supervision, teamwork, and direction easy. Anyway, working remotely could be cheaper.

How is Mr Musk doing who is on the moral high horse telling people to get off their moral high horse? How is it morally wrong for people to want to work from home? In my opinion, it makes things easier. It should only be a problem if the person is not productive and if if an employee is not productive you let him go. There are many people who would take on the job and do it well.

He's talking about about engineers, people who fix my house and people who deliver my food not being able to work from home. Really? Did I make them go into that profession or trade? The hypocrisy of this guy. He's worth billions of dollars and there are people who don't make up to a hundred dollars a month, why doesn't he ask how morally wrong that is?
How is it morally okay for a doctor who saves life to make just 20% of what a football player makes? Elon Musk of all people should understand how life works.

Elon is a scumbag and his opinions are worthless. He got rich because he was given a bunch of money and was lucky enough to be in the right spot when Paypal needed a cash injection in the early days. He is far from a genius, he was just able to accumulate enough money from other peoples hard work and then decided to go on a Twitter spam fest. He's been known to do insider trading, has a brutally thin ego that reacts badly to offense when he is shown up as a clown and has wasted huge amounts of money ($20 billion+ overpaying on Twitter alone). He wants people in his companies in the office so he can squeeze all of the energy out of them, but it is not good for the workers.

Work from home used to be a thing of a freelance job, you work from home and get paid for that particular job and go hunt for another one but everything change during the lockdown when movement were restricted and because we are now in a digital era, there are things that can be done from home and that escalated quickly for many companies and today it's has become a norm.

Some companies has small place of work, having more staff present in there means they have to go for a bigger space and that means bigger expenses, employing a staff that could actually work from home will be cheaper if he or she can deliver efficiently without any procrastination and been punctual. There is nothing that's wrong with working at home as long as the staff delivers.

As for Elon Musk, I just think he is a fan of working from home. I remember him sacking many staffs immediately when he resume as the CEO of Twitter. Everyone in the company payroll that were working from home were sent off and paid, so his statement is justified from his behavior with staffs.

Most probably due to the transition phase, we can't expect them to fit instantly to completely different environment right. As said it's beneficial for the company if the nature of job allows the work from home is possible. And this is kind of new era to find the actual passionate employees and who are just working because they have been under the eyes, I am sure the one who committed to their task will bring more productivity to the company.

This.

This is the most important thing because if we do speak about work output in regardless on how its been done as long it would really be able to be provided in the end of the day or something that could be finished then there would really be no issues in this regard. We cant really be able to deny nor we arent that blind that technology becomes that getting more advanced and the things around or getting involved are actually that making those drastic changes on which it wont really be shocking if one day there would really be that full integration or switch up but of course there's no way that it would really be that happening in a snap but rather it would really be that slowly but of course it would be also that co-exist to each other on which it isnt that bad either.

We are living in a world on which it would be something that advancement that if there would really be changes then it would be just that right that you would really be needing up                                                                                                                                 to adjust or adapt accordingly. We are really that now on living on where everything could be that different on the  things that we are getting used to.
If now that most work or jobs could be done remotely then it wont really be shocking that it would really be having this kind of set up.

You both make good points! Working remotely certainly presents cost savings for companies in terms of reduced office overheads.  It can also promote flexibility and work-life balance for employees and  however, online collaboration has its difficulties, and some staffers may find it tougher to remain productive without the structure of a traditional workplace.  Ultimately, the success of remote work depends on various factors - the specific organization, the roles involved, employee personalities.  While not a universal solution, it can mutually benefit many companies and staff when conditions align.  For example, I like to work from home, and I do not believe that I will ever go back to the old, traditional model. If for some reason this is no longer possible in my current employment, I will look for a new company that allows me to do this, or I will simply go the freelance route.

I kinda get where he's coming from, but I ain't fully sold on it.  Ultimately, what matters most is if people are crushing their goals and staying on track with projects, right? Who cares if Debra in accounting is brainstorming in her PJs instead of choking down gas station coffee in a traffic jam?

Now look I get it aint for everyone.  Some folks thrive off collaborating in person and need that water cooler chat to spark ideas.  But for others, the flexibility of remote work does wonders for their productivity and  they don't need an open office plan to crush it.   

From what I've noticed, seems like a lot of Bitcoin heads are fully remote anyway.  With crypto, you can chart charts, run numbers, scribble code, shill coins, and tweet hot takes from wherever - just need that laptop battery juice and a WIFI connection. As long as deliverables are met and timelines looked good does it really matter if you're camped in a WeWork or a hammock in Costa Rica?

It's all about productiveness, right? When employees work in person at the company building they can be watched and observed by their supervisors, so it's easier to control who is working and who isn't, and why a determined employee is producing more, while another one is producing less. However, when employees work from home, it's not possible or it's very hard to check their performance. Maybe they can be cheating on the boss, and the boss doesn't even know about it. One example is the usage of AIs nowadays. People got lazy and want the AIs to do the whole job for them.

We don't need to go too far to see this reality, as we have already faced it here at bitcointalk forum with some members copying and pasting content from ChatGPT to make their posts for signature campaigns. If those forum members were working physically at a company building, it would be easier to catch them cheating on the instant moment they were doing so, through a supervisor or through a camera installed on the room.

In fact, the camera idea is even being introduced by some companies for remote workers, as the company forces those employees to keep a camera online during the whole worktime. I don't know how effective it is, or even if it's moral to force an employee to follow this rule...

Honestly Elon is a last person i would listen to talk about morality. Also, his point didn't make any sense. For some people there's zero reason to leave their home for work. What elon is saying is similar to saying it's morally wrong that different people have different kinds of jobs. Also this would be first time that elon gave a shit about his employers. He has literally mocked them, kicked his employees out of their jobs, and he values profits over experts and customer / employees safety.

Without any video to back this up, i would totally believe this would be not so well written Onion news headline.

The world is rapidly moving towards becoming a smaller village with the inception of new technologies daily and as such some things are there that are going to be stopped. The new generation of Gen Z are definitely those who are exploiting things like working from home to ease not just the workers but the company too some extra expenses that would have been spent on a physical working environment. But still I will say that the act of working all from home to me is certainly not attainable for all companies no matter what because, some companies would definitely need a physical establishment before they can earn the massive trust of customers to prioritize them. A total work from home would certainly cast doubt on the effectiveness of the services.

The Tech Industry are easily the most effective setups that can easily venture into the work from home thing because they usually do not need edifice to show the customers or consumers that they can be trusted. But for sectors like health and educational services then a work from home wouldn’t be enough for the clients even if it is a consultancy.


Personally what I will say i deduced from the relaxing of worker working from home for the then Twitter and now X by Elon Musk was just to me a thing of cutting down expenses on the company. Elon Musk even though regarded as the richest man currently took a major hit when he bought the then twitter company. If we recall it was also the period where inflation was threatening a lot and he had to cut his loses like the way other companies do during recessions. He must have weighed the value of this workers and felt like those working from home could actually be less effective and that’s why they were the targeted ones to lose their jobs

No.

It's not immoral.

I think that Elon and the rest who agrees with him are just used to the typical setup that they want to see their workers on their offices. He knows what's his best for his businesses and companies but it's not applicable to all.

Most of the companies that are allowing remote setup sees the value on it and for their employees, they're also giving value to themselves and their worth is being appreciated because they're working while they can bond with their family.

The reduce commute time can be allotted to something meaningful to them before they work. Anyway, I like the remote setup and this is where the world is going to but for these business magnates, to each their own.

I haven't watched the video yet, but will here soon.  This, at face value, sounds like some of the dumbest shit I've ever heard.  Personally for me working from home (which I do) has so many positives that out weigh the traditional working in the office type of work.  How on earth could this be a moral issue?  I think Elon is a fool personally who runs his mouth far too often just to hear himself speak.

Working from home gives the employee space to have a good time with the family. Maybe they're contacted 24/7 by the team for different support needs, but they feel like they have less pressure. The work-life balance seems to be better than working in an office. A person reaching out to the office on time and leaving the office at the scheduled time increases productivity, but the mental pressure one experiences will be high. Now the same employee has the free mind to think as well as time to spend with family. There is nothing immoral, and the corporation always wants the best out of its employees, which used to be its primary purpose. It is true, and they're getting the best out of their employees, and they're profitable, if not long ago, work from home would've stopped.

I do not know about this being a moral issue but it definitely is an implication of something bigger. I am surprised that Elon saw through this and has addressed it. Politicians definitely need to study more about this and evaluate the impact on the economic situation of the country.

For those who have no access to laptops and internet and even privacy on their own homes, work from home might not be the best option for them. Working from home is definitely a privilege that a lot of people do not see as one but it is.

I do not really accept Elon Musk's opinion on this. Working from the office can be more comfortable for people who have high positions and good office space, but not for those who spend a lot on transportation to work and do not have a comfortable working space in the office.
Elon has refused to accept the change that the pandemic brought to the work sector and even if he does not accept it, working remotely is here to stay. In people's home to make working remotely more serious, most remote workers have created a special space in their homes for working, maybe a separate room or corner.

Just because Elon has his empires and his one of the richest if not the richest of them all, his words are all not always wisdom. Well, just as how we're doing right now here, we've got our opinions on this WFH/WAH setup. We can base our opinion on the studies and not with his perspective because he's the owner and we as employees have a different perspective that he might or the other company CEOs won't understand. Let's take it from studies like this means that productivity and performance of workers have increased from working from home.

https://i.ibb.co/qJr8zJp/wfh.png (https://www.apollotechnical.com/working-from-home-productivity-statistics/)

Now that a lot of people especially freelancers experienced the comfort and benefits of WFH set-up, I don't think they will be convinced to go back to the traditional method of going to the office. I can agree that in some jobs like if you are working in the lab or you are in a technical position, most of the time, you need to report in your actual place of work. But for people who are now working remotely, I am certain that most of them will keep this kind of arrangement.

Work from home is a really good way for employees to become productive about their work, the debate that it's making people lazy isn't true because if it was then, how come those companies that were doing it during the pandemic were thriving or was able to survive or maybe even increase their profits despite being a work from home is the norm for most workers? There's already a study that was published if I recall that it made more employees happier or the company made more money during their stint with the work from home set up.

The real reason that they're saying that work from home set up is bad for the company is because of people the real estate value of the buildings that those companies were built into are lowering in value since there's not a lot of people that are using it, they want you and every employee to go back there so the property will get it's value back up, that's all there is to it. If you're talking about online classes for children, it's a really bad idea for kids to learn that way, it's been proven already in my country that those that did get to experience online class are quickly promoted to the point that they end up being non-readers or their learning levels aren't suitable to the school year that they're in.

With technology allowing us to work from the comfort of our homes and being productive, hitting our quotas, and helping the company grow, I do not see why wouldn't the companies allow this setup. It is very helpful to the employees who do not need to commute and be stuck in traffic, which they can instead use to bond with their own families or use this saved time anywhere they want to. Work from home setup, in my book, is just a net positive for all.

I find Elon very annoying and unfortunately he is a "celebrity" and as one they keep asking him to comment on anything and he does and most of the times his opinions are nonsense. We already know his opinion about Bitcoin and how wrong it was and still is.

But to answer your question, why are we even discussing "morality" when it comes to a job? A job is a job and as long as it is not hurting anyone, I wouldn't even discuss morality of it.

We can only discuss about usefulness of a job for the society and when it comes to working from home or any other job I would say  it depends on the job. The location from you work does not determine the value of your work, what you do does. For example those Youtube "celebrities" who are creating nonsense and get a lot of views aren't doing a useful work, but at the same time those Youtube content creators making educational videos do. Both of them work at home, usually.

What is he saying lol

I don’t think it’s morally wrong to be able to work from home. Yes not everyone can work from home but I don’t even think everyone wants to work from home. Yes it saves on a lot of things and there are multiple benefits to working from home but some people like to get their hands dirty and not sit in front of a laptop all day.

If you want to work from home and you have the chance to do it then grab that opportunity and don’t think for one second that it’s morally wrong. You are not responsible for what other people go through. If you stop working from home, how will that benefit those who want to work from home but can’t?

If by "Working from home", the "Laptop Class" can help to reduce pressure on energy consumption and other costs, it will contribute to help the environment. Less pollution and good reduction on global warming and climate change.

I don't know there are scientific research on it but it's my belief. Because if those "Laptop Class" people don't come to coffee shops to do "Work from home" or "Remote work", these shops will still use electricity, air conditioners and so on. Having more people do "Remote work" at those shops can help both companies and the shops to maximize their cost and benefit for their business operations while can contribute to reduce to environment.

I agree. Like leo who farewelled us months ago, his posts by remote work actually helped many forum members with very valuable contributions. Your posts in Bitcoin technical board are also educational and helpful too.

Elon Musk is not making sense in this! I don't understand why working from home is a moral issue! Probably it's just an Elon thing that we commoners fail to understand.

There are multiple jobs where commuting is not necessary. The deliverables can be achieved without any dependency on the employee location. What's moral or immoral in here?

Flexibility is the greatest advantage of working at home. Apart from your working time, you have full control over the rest of the activities you need to do without anyone questioning you or calling you back to work. Work from home has been adopted by so many and it started during the pandemic. I believe that it is a moral standard because I have seen people who work from home living a well-fulfilled life. They have good morals, nice communication skills and they have discipline. It is not easy to maintain consistency working from home without anyone guiding or managing you.

Isn't it a moral issue when you have billions of dollars, pump and dump crypto like it's a yo-yo toy? I am a UI/UX designer and I work remotely, thank god I have that opportunity. I simply learned good and perspective profession, worked days and nights to learn it, to gain experience and to get the job and now I get comfortable work, flexible working hours and a good salary. I'm sorry that many people have to work 12-hour shifts for much lower salary but what can I do? If I start a business, I'll try to offer my employees a high-paying salary. If Elon Musk feels that people like me are immoral, he has to think about unused billions of dollars that he has and that can change the fate of hundreds of thousands of people.

I'll say Yes based on experience, during the COVID-19 at when there was the observation of social distances, my aunt who works from home with her laptop instead working from the office was being too lazy to execute her daily tasks and for that, she had been accumulating those tasks til it becomes difficult for her to wrap up before the summary days within the week and month.

She sleep most time on the laptop and she hasn't been concerned of looking good such as wearing makeup and putting on her good dresses just because there'd be no one to be impressed. Even when her boss needed her urgent need, she's usually not on the system to respond so quick as demanded.
But these are unlike when she works from the office.

The nature of you job determines where your work should be, though the Internet has made it possible for us to work from anywhere, understanding differs as far the work and individual do is legit and permitted by his employers, I don't think working from home should be frowned at,  in some cases some people prefer going to the office because of discipline, it is a usual thing for someone to procrastinate if he or she is working from because one may say after all am at home i cant deliver anytime, the only way to discipline individuals that work from home is to give the deadline at such they will be more cimmited to their job than ever, in contrary an employee can also procratinate in the office too, it all depends on the individual involved, in all, what matters is dedication, when someone is dedicate and passionate about what he or she does, it wouldn't matter if they work from home or not hence their required assignments is been carried out as expected.

Well, rich ≠ wisdom...

Elon didn't become rich by being a flagship for morality or wisdom, but in fact, for being ruthless, which is pretty much synonym for immoral.

I am not sure if he was always like this, or this this just ketamine speaking, but for being such a poster boy for rich people, he sure makes lots of obvious financial mistakes. I know now he affords to make them more, but he seems to make them now from out of spite against what ever he thinks is "wrong". As some sort of middle finger against elite he actually represents and trying to desperately prove he is right while everyone else is wrong. Even though he wouldn't know what he is talking about.

And one doesn't even need to be that bright to realize that he doesn't know what he is talking about most of the time. When someone is against huge majority of studies and experts in their field and avoids details like a plague when talking about science, it's pretty easy to draw conclusions.

We have this myth that you need to be smart and wise to make money, and assumption that everyone wants to be rich by any means necessary, which makes people to defend all his weird ideas and saying he can't be wrong about anything because he is rich. Like it would be some sort of 5d chess.

Working from home is a very good way many times it is seen that people get stuck due to various problems and are late to go to office so with the help of laptop they can finish office work easily at home no one has to wait for that. I think working from home is ideal and when companies give employees this opportunity employees will be happier and morale will increase. No one could go to the office during the corona period everyone completed the work sitting at home.

This is something that would be situational because we know that there are workers which are really that too lazy specially on the moment that they are really that in the convenience of their own home
on which on the moment that you are on such condition then you would really be that confident that you can be able to finish all the pending works you do have and since you do know that you do have all the time and the moment that you could be able to do such work then it would be normal that one day you would be getting shocked on the time that due date is approach or the complying date is near. Just like on what i have said that this is something that will really be that depending because work output will really be still submitted on a particular date whether you are really that working remotely or going into offices.

If there were study or statistics shows about having that improved about efficiency and productivity then it wont be shocking that employers would really be that definitely be sticking into which
productivity has increased then it would be no brainer for that. Just like on what we do all know that technological advancement becomes even more better then works could really be done remotely.
For those people who are really that hired on having this kind of job then it would really be that good and convenient which without needing to go into office on which a bit hassle
and you would really be needing to battle on day to day traffic.  ;D

I agree with Kevin O'Leary in that video that the world on his opinion that the world is changing and the economy is changing so many economies were saved because of the work-from-home model because of COVID and so many companies all over the world are using the work-from-home model and it is a case to case and country to country basis.

In our country alone we adopted the work-from-home model because of the traffic problems in our urban areas just imagine one worker spending 5 hours commuting from home to work and back and forth, it saves a lot of time and money for the the company, the worker and the government as well, as it will ease up traffic.
A study here in our country proves that working from home makes the worker more efficient.

It all depends on the kind of job that you are doing that will determine if working from home is not moral or not. If it is a job that you don't need to be in the office and it does not affect the productivity of the company, it is cool and the best. Jobs like website design and maintenance. We have so many jobs that are best done online as we are moving most services to be online.

However, if it is a field job or a construction job, or jobs that needs the present of the employee for his duties to be carried out effectively and efficiently, then such person needs to be at his place of work, whether office or in the site. Work from home helps the employee to manage his salary very well.

i don't really agree with this, because issues related to morals have further implications for individuals and discussing it just because of wfh or laptop classes is quite excessive. because in some cases, working or studying online is much more effective and efficient, because not all lessons or work need to be completed offline. for example, in my city, until now offices and schools are regulated by the government to make their students or employees work online once a week, to reduce traffic jams and the carbon footprint resulting from people's travel. this is really effective and the plan is to extend it in the future.

indeed, at one point, working or studying offline is more effective, but at one time the online world is just as effective, and we don't need to exaggerate to say that this is a moral issue.

Surprised to see someone voted Yes lol.
I have nothing against Elon but he is just not making sense here. Because some people go to the office or stand on the manufacturing line to do their job, he also wants people to go into the office and do the work there. If it can be done online then it's an option. Not sure what he is trying to make people do.

The world doesn't revolve around what Elon musk thinks, working from home can't be immoral, working from home makes work less stressful and more relaxing. Working from home is also more productive and doesn't put limitations on how many work people can do remotely. Working online has made people to be able to work from different geographical location in the world and still delivering a perfect job. Maybe Elon musk doesn't like the idea but that doesn't make it immoral or wrong. He has his own thinking and I'm surprised by him saying this because with the help of some of the technology that he's improving on, working from home might become more common.

Lets consider people that do some jobs online and get paid in Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency, this won't have been possible if everybody has the thinking of Elon musk. He thinks in a way that isn't normal and doesn't go in accordance with the rest of the world. He's a genius no doubt but not everything that a genius says that should make sense to us because they can make mistakes and this is one for those times. The world is going digital, we can't stop the need for the spread of remote jobs.

IIRC, with his story and interview, he said that it was NASA that was able to save him and his empire by having that $1B deal on them. Anyway, there's always the entitlement from these successful people but even with their money, it doesn't mean wisdom to us. We understand how it is to be in the bottom and for sure that he do as well. But he's forgetting that he's standing on a higher ground where most of the people won't get there and he has to realize that sooner.

And that's why his thoughts and opinions won't be aligned to us and that statement about working from home will he never understand because he's an owner of various companies that he owns. Well, moving on. I don't want to dig no more about his attitudes and characters. It's just more about his stand about working from home that we don't agree with him with. The rest, let alone everyone understand criticize him the way he's doing things and how he acts like child.

When tf did morals come into play in work? Pretty sure CEOs don't bother thinking about that when they throw pizza parties instead of paying their employees proper salaries lol. Plus, the goddamn dumbass argument of trying to make it a moral issue. A plumber working from home? Really? That's the best argument you can come up with? Jesus Christ I know in some aspects you're a genius but holy fuck stop arguing about morals you suck at it.

Sure, if people who were wfh were indeed plumbers, sure, argue that they're not supposed to be working on site. But it's not lol. Most people wfh are on the logistics sides of things. It's really dumb how people invent things to make life easier yet said same people refuse to use said inventions to make life easier.

it depends on the job of course it the entire job can be done from remote working I think there's nothing wrong from it, personally I'm on the favour of working remote, no need to have higher carbon foot print traveling just to do the same exact thing that can be done from home, its overall the more efficient way to work and also to save the planet if you know it can also reduce gas needed for transportation meaning it will reduce our overall expenses.
from his opinion you can see from elon perspective that he probably feels wasting money on people that work from home.
but honestly if job is done then it should be okay, i don't understand with these big companies that demands more just for the sake of demanding, maybe the higher ups will feel a lot more productive seeing their employees working together in one place while in reality it absolutely is unnecessary.

I do not understand whether working via the Internet using a laptop has anything to do with the Immoral issue or not? Work is work, whether it is through direct presence in offices or via the Internet.

As long as you do the work required of you honestly and the employer gets exactly what he wants and at the required time, why is the issue unmoral? What is important is the result, and the employer will not pay you the wage unless he obtains what is required.

On the contrary, office work can sometimes be unmoral, as employees can waste time uselessly and intentionally delay work in order to get paid when they achieve the required working hours.

I think Elon Musk is wrong here. Working from home isn't a moral high ground but it's not immoral either. It's not a moral issue. Some jobs require physical on-site presence, for others it's completely useless and many jobs are in between. If a job can be done efficiently from home, working from home should be an option. As for essential service work that can't be done from home, maybe the world should pay more for those jobs to compensate for this need.
Working from home remains popular and highly desirable by many people, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Elon has bolder things to say other than that, Just today I saw a news about him saying jobs will become a ‘hobby’ as he predicted the future of work and AIs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXBz6Jf_PwM

This is because of the AI and the anchor added that if the robot took your job and you don't like your job, you can dedicate your life to what you're passionate about. This is scary for all those working class.

I also don't agree that working from home is morally wrong as long as the worker is giving their 100% even from home. Understandably, some people might misuse the opportunity and become less productive when they are working from home, but if someone has a complete office set up at home, has no disturbance while they are working, is always productive towards their work, and never lacks behind, I don't see any problem with such people working from home.

It should be morally wrong if a person working from home starts losing productivity and the company can see a significant change in their work and behaviour or seriousness towards their job and responsibilities. There is also nothing wrong with someone working on-site as long as the commute isn't a very big problem for them.

Obviously he said that because he is a businessman and what he wants is for all his employees to sweat to get to the office and work according to the standards he sets, but he forgets that when talking about effectiveness, even working from home will still be effective depending on the individual, the person responsible it won't reduce the quality of his work just because he can freely do it at home, but irresponsible people will be ineffective even if they work from the office, so which is better? clearly, the person is responsible and wherever he works the quality will remain the same, and working from home can reduce stress because he has to spend more time getting to the office because of traffic jams, so working from home is a good thing if it is done by the right person and the world is experiencing many changes that must be accepted.

in my opinion working using a class laptop is not an immoral act, every person has a reason for that, there are those who don't feel comfortable when working at home and there are those who feel very comfortable when working using a class laptop but when you steal that class laptop or damage it but if you don't want to be responsible for fixing it, that's an immoral act.

As a person who have worked from home during pandemic and now going office again, what I realized is I'm more productive when I'm at a formal setting. It could also be associated with habit or persona discipline but when I work from home, I barely get the job done, I also procrastinate more and finish the job only when I'm required to.
When I'm at my office table with my office computer, my mind and body works like a machine, I get things done quick, am able to parallel process many task and completes task as soon as I can. I don't have anything to distract me and don't even check my phone once. While if I were at home, I would have a lot of distractions.

From the entrepreneur's side, maybe most of them don't like this because working from home reduces the productivity of their employees and communicating is easier if employees are on site, and for that reason many companies prefer to call all their employees back to the company to work directly from there. However, this is only a matter of professionalism and linking it to moral issues is perhaps irrelevant. Because whether they work online or not, someone who works must be required to be professional in their work and they must understand that they are being paid, so they must obey the company's rules - whether they need to work online or offline, they must remain professional .

Musk is using AL to replace human effort in work place and he can't feel it is a moral issue when someone works on his laptop from home so long the person is productive and delivers as according to his assignment schedule. If he is bringing down human labour and using robots, then he should also consider the moral issues there when he has succeeded to take food out of people and their families. Also by doing such lay offs, it means he has also contributed to the numbers of people who would be at home and try to find a job or work from home for themselves.

I don't see any morality question on this. To stay at home and work is facilitated because of the technological advancement globally and people take advantage of it to be at any location to reach the world, advertise their goods and services through digital connectivity. So what is the moral issue that working from home has created... Working from home was made popular from the COVID-19 pandemic where people avoided contacts with others making them work distance. Now, even offices have found patronage from online customers, goods and services are more comfortably delivered online. Therefore, working from home is not because of laziness but talking the opportunity that technology creates for different types of businesses to thrive.

I haven't answered because the choice of answers is really limited and no matter which way we talk, we're probably discussing someone's personal opinion and it's not perfect.

Just like the moral issue is based on a means of work, this way of reasoning is not complete because we are born and raised with a lot of capital established from the beginning and also the process of contact with life depends on perception to see.

Regarding work, I think it still belongs to the person doing the work, like it's just a means. I still want to talk about the knife when it is used in the kitchen, or as a deadly weapon, so we cannot say that the knife lacks ethics. So the way the problem was posed from the beginning was an expression of opinion, so there was no answer to those answers.

You are right, it's hypocritical of Elon to say that working from home is immoral while he's building AI & robots. Billionaires seem to go crazy at some point, probably a lot of money goes to their heads and they get some weird ideas.

There's nothing wrong or immoral in working from home on a laptop, if the work is such that it can be done that way, why not? I think it's silly to talk about whether someone will be more productive in the workplace or while working from home, we are all different... I believe that people who feel comfortable and know how to organize their time can be just as (if not more ) productive while working from home. Again, it depends on the person, we are not all the same. Elon talks a lot and says a lot of smart things, but sometimes (like now) he gets a little carried away.

I voted for NO, and I have to disagree with Elon. Yeah, times have changed post-pandemic, and as long as the workers can do their work for the company at home then there is no issues about WFH. It's about doing what you are being paid for, regardless on where you are working. And Elon can't compare it to people who serves coffee or in a physical store because that's their business, they are client facing and so they really need to be upfront everyday.

And remember that this WFH is not a new concept, back then when I work in a company, we have privileges wherein we can do work from home already. And it is perfectly fine. Also there are jobs that you can do at home without interacting. Or if you need someone then send them an email and for sure your job are not going to be affected.

Elon Musk is a businessman who has been very successful with the products and services he offers to the world public at this time and this has been recognized by many people at this time. But if Elon views working from home as a moral issue, that could be true because perhaps for him it was actually much safer when he started monitoring all the work he had through a special tool that he provided himself. But some people who disagree with this also have their own reasons because they cannot possibly equate themselves with Elon Musk who has been quite successful in several business fields. And in your opinion, how do you respond to this?

Just because a person has obtained success in one aspect of their life, this does not mean they know everything there is to know, and what better example than this, it is obvious that as a business owner Elon likes to have as much control over the people that work for him, and this means people working at the office, but this is neither moral or more efficient, so this is just another instance in which we must disregard anything that Elon says as he does not really knows what he is talking about.

Working from home isn’t wrong. As far as your company lets you do that, it is your choice. I disagree with Elon because if this is an issue, he should have just put the rule that those who work from home won’t be able to do it anymore.

What he is saying is that because I have a lovely voice, I shouldn’t sing because it would make people who don’t have a lovely voice to feel bad. That’s what it sounds like to me. It’s an opportunity, let them enjoy it while they can. All those who work at the office and the people who fix your house would choose to work from home if it was possible.

I chose "No" because it seems more morally wrong to not work at all. In my area, it's difficult to find well-paying jobs, so the internet provides an opportunity to find work outside my region. As long as the job can be completed remotely, why not take advantage of this?

If given the choice, I would prefer a hybrid work model, where I could work from home most of the time and go to the office once or twice a week for meetings or to connect with colleagues.

If your Job gives you the liberty to work from home with your laptop, then you can take the advantage, if there is no distractions in the house, like kids running around or perhaps your attention can be called to do a task because you are in the house, then it is ok. Another reason for working from home is to forgo the stress of being in traffic's to go to workplace and come back home, it can be tiring. But despite all these I still prefer to work in a workplace, I believe that it is good to be in a work environment to be more effective, also to interact physically with colleagues to get better outputs or results.

Indeed technology has been out there for those who are considered to deliver their tasks even on a remote basis at anywhere without the needed to be in the office just as said.
But some sets of lazybones has really made it seem odd that working from home encourages laziness to stick to their jobs unlike when working from the offices.
They're used to accumulating of tasks believing that they can always wrap it up even after working periods so as to meet up with the times they were unable to deliver those tasks and on the contexts they keep having false hope that they'd always finish the job before the complying day to be done with the jobs.

Remote job or working from home would real give privileges to execute other assignments through the flexibility of multitasking.

Working from home became popular during the Covid-19 period when offices and companies had to shutdown operations while allowing their employees work from home using office tools that enable video calls for meetings and submitting of reports.

I don't think there's anything wrong in doing remote work or working from home, as long as the job description isn't of field operations or requiring one to do some lifting. For senior workers who can monitor work from anywhere in the world, working from home is a good solution to efficiency and productivity.

During COVID when we were working from home my company witnessed more productivity and quality work compared to those days when we used to work from homa nd company's profit margin increased since they were saving on office rental and other stuffs like transport and daily expenses to maintain and run the workplace but they have to restart work from office due to pressure rom government as government was concerned about local businesses not getting business this the tax margin was also less. I don't consider Elon Musk seriously as he is bt weird but ye everyone's entitled to their opinion andy opinions is work from home was better.

How is it immoral? You can wake up at 8:30 and then put on your work clothes (just the top) and then hop in to your Zoom meeting and have all of the tasks delegated to you be done, without the hassle of waking up really early and going for a commute, that's the best kind of thing for a working man, the ability to have all the extra time spent on commute get used for more productive things like time for yourself and increased hours of sleep, the only immoral thing about all of this is the way that Elon talked down on the benefits of working from home, you don't do that if you know that it's beneficial to your workers, you don't tell others that it's bad to be working from home.

Because I am a person who works from home, Elon Musk views are certainly not entirely correct. Moral problems are not tied to what field he works in, but moral problems depend on the individual. I'm still curious what is meant by moral issues in this context? because there are many moral problems that arise from various individuals with different jobs. So whether you are moral or not is not measured by where you work. For example we find many people with immoral attitudes who live in the market, work every day, interact with various types of people's characters which ultimately affects their mental, attitude and speech.

Not everything he said is right or wrong, and I don't deny that there are some people who work from home who have mental problems, lack of interaction with the surrounding environment, a lack of social life, can easily become stressed and frustrated.

Maybe he means like why are you doing something that not a lot of people can afford. Why would you choose to be working at home while other people works out in the field. Eventho it's definitely a privilege, people not working from home will do nothing for those people who do.

 It would be useless to give up a chance to work from home just to stay morally correct. But I do get his point.

When you say immoral I think it is related to religion but I don't think it has to do with it, though yeah that some doesn't like it because they think people can't do really well with it compared when they do it on the traditional environment.

This is not only limited to working on a job but also those who are studying or once going to a real school. For me, I think it only depends. There are some things that are done better on the field, outside, or on a real working environment than from the comfort of our own homes, while some can be done through it with no problems. In the case of Bitcoin, I think almost anything about it are online because BTC itself is also online/digital.

Elon is rich and has a huge influence on the public. But not everything he said make sense. Even with just one tweet, he can affect the lives of someone halfway around the world. But saying working from home is immoral is idiotic. A lot of people are adopting what the Internet can do to businesses and employees.

If an employee doesn't require supervision because he is responsible enough. Why not let him do it at home? Nothing is immoral to that.

I, as a mother, have been on maternity leave for several years now, but this in no way affects the fact that I cannot work remotely, which is what I do. Remote work has been around for me for quite some time, and, in my opinion, it is an excellent alternative to offline work. I am always with the children, doing household chores, and also have several suggestions, including on this forum. This is bad. What Max is saying is just another of his bullshit, but you shouldn’t pay attention to it, knowing his regular eccentricities. Obviously, Musk needs more rockets, which he sends to Mars.

Basically, if your moral compass is Elon Musk, then you are going to have a lot of trouble in life :D Reality is that if a job can be done, then it can be done and wherever you are doesn't matter. Some work needs you to be down at the factory floor, some jobs in the world requires you to be at some office, and some jobs can be done even when you are sitting at home.

As someone who has been freelancing for nearly 8 years now, I can tell you that I have worked probably twice as much at home then I worked at office, because at office I would be getting paid but could be chatting with my friends or drinking coffee and taking a break, but when you are freelancing then you only get paid based on how much you work, and when you are not working that is time you are not making money.

Working from home is a big help to everyone. If you are really patient, you will find something that can generate profit online. This is a bitcoin or cryptocurrency that I know most crypto enthusiasts have had the opportunity to get a profit from.

And I'm already one of those who get a source of income, and I don't see any immorality in what I'm doing; unless we're doing it illegally here, it can be said to be immoral.

Have experience working from home and from office but since my work is infront of computer
then I find no difference instead it gives me different enjoyment.

I like working in office because of new ambiance but I also love working from home because i
an closer to my family and my time is more flexible .

maybe this is depending in which or whom will need to answer this , as some loves from home
while others wanted to get out of house at least when working.

I'm also working from home and I don't see any problem with this. How can working from home be a "moral issue"? Morality is about good and evil and how you as a person could help or cause damage to other people. The people, who are working from home aren't causing damage to anyone. Elon is acting like a "butthurt employer", who wants all people to work 10-12 hours in the office(or wherever they work) instead of working home and having flexible work hours. Working from home is way more convenient for introverts like me. The extroverts could meet and socialize at anytime and anywhere they want.

So is this related to working from home? Unfortunately not all jobs cannot be done from home, or even only a few jobs can be done from home. I have no problem with the laptop class and agree because nowadays we cannot avoid technological advances. the same was true during the Covid-19 pandemic and most people were forced to carry out activities online.

I think productivity is probably less at home, people will be more likely to slack & not work as hard if they don’t have a boss or management peering over their shoulder in an office. It’s not something I’m keen on & if I had a business I would prefer my employees to be in the office where I can keep my eyes on them.

Why would working from home or laptop class be immoral?
I don't see anything wrong with it unless you are cheating on your employer, sleeping or slacking cause you know that you could do it since you are at home and your boss or employer couldn't see you.
But for me there is nothing wrong with working from home or having online class, it just shows that they are willing to do their job no matter what, some people thinks that working from home is easy but it isn't the case for everyone.
There are parents who decide to work from home in order to watch their kids at the same time, so it isn't easy for them, working, cooking and taking care of kids they are multi tasking cause they want their child/children to have a better future, and create some memories while they are growing.

Efficiency is a necessity for advancement, nothing wrong with that at all.  How is sitting in traffic for an hour each way to get to work and back every day efficient and useful direction for a human being, its a waste and it creates pollution so that would be the immoral part.   There is an argument for some benefits in working together in an office but alot of modern work is either isolated or distributed unit based work that is already divided and ideal for work by a work force in multiple locations.   

I find the companies which offer a choice are the most realistic as it obviously has some particular benefits for some people especially.  It does make review of that work done away from the office vital and so not every workplace will be compatible with the idea. 

Elon Musk is a hypocrite of course, able to fly by helicopter and jet and make whatever schedule suits himself.  Of course he would want people to follow whatever he decides, thats upto him I guess.

It is not all companies that had high productivity during the COVID-19 pandemic. So many firms will not function properly without the physical presence of workers. Many manufacturing companies suffered low productivity, which made them downsize or even go bankrupt. Death from the pandemic is now low, so most governments and businesses want their workers to come to the office since the reason for working online has phased out. Elon Musk has his reason for wanting workers to come back to work but I don't think it is immoral. Maybe the productivity of his companies dropped because of online workers, so he needs them to return back to work. Capitalists don't care about worker's conditions; all they want is to make more money.

Which it would really be normal on which there would really be certain industries that wont really be able to get in line if they would really be tending to switch up with remote works or simply it does really need up that physical intervention on which they would really be needing up those employees to go into offices or into their work stations on which it would really be that understandable, but for those businesses which
it would be something that pertains or in connection with online stuffs and other correlated things then it would really be something significant that they could really be able to easily adapt
when it comes to online integration on which having those workers to be able to work from home without any issues.

Speaking about efficiency then there would be some links been posted earlier by other members which turns out to be that positive on which it is really that great.
WFH isnt really something speaking about immoral or not because it would really be just that normal that there would really be those switch up basing up on the condition that we are really that
experiencing on. Instead on making yourself that stagnant then finding up alternatives will really be the best choice.

     Before COVID-19 happened, work from home was really in demand; it only became more of a trend when there was a pandemic because everyone was just inside their homes, and until now,
it's still trending. And I also don't see from which angle it became immoral to use a laptop or desktop inside the home just to get more income for our family.

After all, working from home has even helped our government reduce the percentage of unemployed or jobless people so that they can earn a living, right?

Not unless you set a target for your every employees and seriously, working from home can also help you become more productive because you have your own time space to do your task and usually, those who are working from home have their job done on time. I do prefer to work from home and there's a lot of companies who are offering this option, I guess this has been the trend. Though of course it is not for everybody as other companies prefer have their employees at their office and guide them physically.

I feel like the ultra-rich class wants people to not work from home because work from home devalues their grip on power. Their properties in skyscrapers become worthless, their office spaces go bankrupt, their apartments have vacancies, their expensive urban utility companies become useless... People can go back to the village and deliver the same work so long as there's an internet connection, be it 4g or ADSL.

I HATE this propaganda against working from home. Like yes, at least give the people the option to go to the office. If they want to, great. If I had offices near my house that I own I'd go to. But I'm thinking of never renting again now that I can work from home more easily.

Actually this will depend on what type of job a person enters. If it is a fairly relaxed job involving the digital world that can be done without the need for an office then working from home is enough. But if it is a regular job that requires teamwork then working in an office is the best. Because we can directly communicate with colleagues freely. But currently, quite a lot of ordinary office work is also done from home, which is called remote working. But once again, not all types of work can be done this way. So I don't agree if this concerns morals. Because whether you are moral or not must also be judged by the type of work you do. If it is a teaching and learning class then indeed work like that is not good if it is done only from home by relying on a laptop and video calls / Zoom meetings or something like that. Because it will still be more effective if students and teachers meet directly. But there are other types of work that are easier to do and more comfortable to do at home. So again it becomes moral or not just based on the type of work done.

In recent years, I see working from home as the best type of work one should involve he/herself in. It gives more flexibility and comforting time than appearing to work day by day and under the strict supervision of a Boss. I will rather work from home, do my work at when due and deliver the task as soon as possible and not bother of watching the time to see when to go home and how to plan my schedule after spending most of the time of the day at work. When you’re an introvert and secures a good paying job working from home, you won’t feel the need to join a physical work were you’re required to show up everyday even when you’re tired and hectic. Most importantly, working from home gives you the free leisure time to have with your family not like the physical you need to be their most of the time and get little or no time to spare with your family.

working from home as far as I know, is more efficient definitely better than just working from office where no real value is added, working from office occasionally is okay but doing it a whole week just doesn't really seem the greatest idea when all things could be done remotely.
even from this forbes article https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/remote-work-statistics/ 35% of worker feels more productive working remotely because there's less time wasted for commuting, less distraction and all.
the thing that really making me feel better suited working remotely is often time the poltiics that happens within the office, sometime you know the politic within the office in my opinion just often time greatly distracted from doing something that actually contributes to the company.
with working remote, you got your assignment, you gonna finish the task within certain period of time then you can focus on it but not with working in the office  there's just too many things to take care about and I'm not even mentioning about the culture of overworking just to looks good in other eyes.

so far I think those ultra rich people just feeling like if their employees aren't working like in front of them, then they ain't working which is strange since all the tasks couldn't be automatically done by itself.
but well they are the employer anyway, they definitely can have preference toward what kind of working culture they prefer, since they are the one that gives salary to them payrolls.
but I just hope that some higher ups actually can understand that sometime some work better be done remotely for the sake of less distractions.
but of course there's certain job that can't be done remotely, as many have stated.

Introverts indeed enjoy this kind of set up the best. There’s nothing wrong with that in my opinion and it’s only a matter of accessibility and preference.

Some people do not like engaging with others, let’s be honest co-workers sometimes are not your favorite people. They can be overbearing sometimes. Too dependent, too chatty, too nosy, too this and that. When you are working from home, you do not need to be exhausted and drained from chatting up  to different people.

It is interesting that you wrote the surname Must, which is probably a mistake - but it makes sense considering the type of person it is. People simply must to do what the big boss tells them, because he is the one around whom the world revolves - at least he thinks so. This is why he thinks that people should only be in offices, because that way they are available for him to bully them when it comes to his mind.

People who only need a computer for their work can be equally or even more efficient if they work in the environment of their home, and I don't see any boss who would have anything against such a way of doing business. Such a way of doing business can even bring savings, because the owner will save on electricity, water, internet - and also will not pay travel expenses, which again has the result of saving the time the worker spends on the way to work and back, and ultimately less air pollution and traffic congestion.

There's no moral issue; I don't get what Elon Musk is about, and why does he voice an opinion? Is he the one driving the trucks or the technician who can't work from home, or is he known for the pleasant workplace he's offering? There's nothing wrong with working from home; it saves time and reduces traffic, pollution, and fuel. Not all occupations can be conducted remotely, and that's perfectly logical. Why is he even comparing uneven things in the first place? Some office jobs can be performed perfectly from home, of course, and a plumber or an electrician cannot. Why is that even a concern in the first place? There's no moral issue; it's all a matter of choice.

According to my opinion, work from home is best option to earn money because it saves time and men am women can work without any hurdle.  Now ,there are many opportunities in the market through which we can earn money. That opportunities are different from physical job because physical job is very tough and your time wastes in the physical job. But on the other side , online work increases the patient of diabetes and heart attack and everyone is influenced by heart attack.I think,work from home is moral and you should not follow any person blindly and you should work on your skills. Everyone can't do the online work because online work require good intelligence and good mindset and good focus.Not everyone has these qualities.

Online work increases the risk of developing diabetes and heart disease. Where did you get that from? Any kind of job that makes you sit at a desk for 8 hours while you're not having any physical exercise yourself is going to deteriorate your physical state; it doesn't necessarily have to be remotely. I think you're confusing physical work, one that requires strength, such as construction, with on-site work, the one you attend to at your workplace physically. It also doesn't necessarily mean that remote working is more profitable; there are plenty of fields out there, and the salary varies depending on the circumstances.

I have been at bitcointalk for longer than I can remember, even on early days when I didn't had an account, I just checked here because in SEO sense, when you had a question about bitcoin, you googled it and bitcointalk would come up since it was one of the only places that talked about bitcoin.

And I think I do not remember any poll that is this one sided, I have seen some clear wins, like 70 or 80 percent for one side, but at the end of the day a 96 percent one is something I have not seen, or at least do not remember any at all. I believe that we are going to end up with something different, it is not going to be all that easy, and we should probably look for a situation that would be in favour of laptop class if the decision is this clear.

Governments and rich people are trying to convince people to go back to the office, but if we are honest about it, they do not really have a good argument in favor of this, so at least to me this is about the economy, if people do not go back to the office, then a great deal of the office space available becomes useless and a real estate crash becomes a more likely possibility, so in order to prevent this from happening, governments want for things to go back to the way they were, but this is going to be difficult to implement because people have experimented how efficient it is to work from home and they do not wish for this to change.

In my organisation the management introduces the work from hone option to reduce the cost of transportation on mostly the lower level employees.
I don't see it as immoral act provided no employee is taken advantage of the event. Rather it has really helped to a certain degree with its aim.
Aa long as an employee did not misuse such opportunity it is fine to work anywhere and not necessarily be at the work station.

I was actually impressed with what you have been saying not until you mentioned this.

Online work is much safer because it decreases the intake of toxic carbons that come from fuel and it also reduces sun burns other climate or scientific effects. Physical jobs are riskier in terms of health. Ask those who work in the oil sector they are open to hazards, dangerous flames, and gases that may cause sudden death or cancer, as well as those offshore, for example, the rig workers. They get paid handsomely because their work is very risky. But funny enough one can still earn much money or more by working from home. With my detailed explanation which do you prefer now?

most of digitally conscious companies are doing exactly that, they appreciate cutting costs that are deemed unnecessary including this one, even i've seen plenty of companies right now having employee 100% working through remote that even the company itself doesn't really need large building for working office but instead just small head quarter which is nice if you think about it and trust me there's nothing wrong with not going to the office just to do some jobs.
the pandemic has taught us that its viable, even there's some big corporations trying to make metaverse focused in exactly this and unfortunately though they failed because metaverse field was never being explored fully since they are just at the introductory stage when pandemic is over and can't have the chance to get people into trying it, now everywhere they use zoom for meetings and for the IT based company always have some platform like slack and discord.

the company that refuses work from home and considers it immoral probably just very few out of bunch of companies out there that accepts the fact in which we are moving on from traditional working environment to a more digitalized one for the sake of cutting costs.

even mining company right now also starting to introduce working from home by remote controlling the machines used to mine its fascinating and could eliminate the unnecessary risks of accident at the same time.
if more company embraces such working environment it will increase productivity by several folds in my opinion.

Yeah, but that literally also would save them money as well. If office space isn't needed, and if they own it, they can rent it and actually make more money with it. Not to mention money they save for cutting out cleaning, security, water and electricity bills.

Only believeable things i would see to elon's nonsense, are that he actually wants to make his employees know who is the boss, and that he can have his video surveillance on them. Or that there's some sort of tax cut sidehustle going on with company's 3rd party services. Because idea that elon would give a single fuck for workers equality is just ridiculous and we can see it by just watching and listening. There's lawsuits against him from ex employees, reports of him bullying and abusing them etc.. Even bloody tweets directly against his workers, one harassment that i know to directly against his disabled worker. Believing that this would have anything to morality or equality is just plain weird.

Working from home means that you are going to have more time, both for yourself but in general as well. There is no commute, there is no limitations of work place, there is no issues where your boss could diminish your work, you are basically free.

This scares employers because they are aware that you could just find another one like that anytime there is a better offer, in any normal case if you are at the office where they can see you, it's harder to accept job offers because it would be hard to even go to interview, but you could just take your one hour lunch break at interview time and get away with it if you are working remote. All in all, employers all around the world that remote working gives workers some power, and that's why they are scared.