Bitcoin Forum

The transaction has its value is $383,218,948 and transaction fee is 35,700 satoshis that equal to $24,76.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOoC5TFaQAAl2Kx?format=png&name=small (https://x.com/thomas_fahrer/status/1795250967497277617)

Bitcoin transaction fee is still not cheap enough for everyone but mempools are better recent weeks, people have better conditions to move their bitcoins with cheaper fees.

That big transaction above is very beneficial for people who have big fund and can use Bitcoin blockchain to move their fund on chain, with cheaper transaction fee than if they do it through bank transfer. Transactions on Bitcoin blockchain have an extra security, no reverse.

It is still expensive for people with small fund or the poor to feel feasible when using Bitcoin blockchain and spending fee.

We could argue that this can also be achievable with other blockchains.

The advantage of Bitcoin (in general and compared to other cryptocurrencies) is the fact that we can achieve this with a network that is hard as a rock in terms of stability and security, and the fact that it's pretty much the most decentralized cryptocurrency we have right now.

If you present this to rich people, pretty sure that they'd be rushing to buy their bitcoin because of how easy it is to do just that when you want to do a transaction, I think you'd probably be sending more for fees when you do this in banks plus you're going to do a lot of confirmation to do a little transaction so hopefully it will attract them.

I'm hoping that this is true because I'm sure that there's not a lot of people that's only invested in bitcoin nowadays and I feel like it's a good way to attract investors if you know that you do small transactions there without the worry that you're paying too much for the fees, I also would love it if there's more network that will automatically subtract your transaction fee even at the expense of the cryptocurrency that you're sending so there's no worry and hassle.

$24.76 is too much for 1 input and 2 outputs transaction. Either the person knew what he did or waste money on fee.

The transaction is having 1 input and 2 outputs. The fee rate with the highest priority that I saw just now to send bitcoin is 11 sat/vbyte, which amounts to $1.05 if you are sending from 1 input to 2 addresses (2 outputs).

The person used legacy address. Let us assume that the 3 addresses are legacy. The fee is for segwit address is $1.05. If the person used 2 times the fee which is $2, it is enough to get the transaction confirmed faster.

You are hoping for what's true. There are already existing means of sending crypto transactions at a cheaper rate through the use of other alternative coins, just as MK4 highlighted. Although the transaction the Op shared is overcharged, if the person is experienced, it could have been avoided. 
 
During the past weeks when the bitcoin network was flooded with those shitcoin transactions, we all saw how high the fee was. A lot of people discovered how cheap it was to run transactions using other coins like LTC, matic, and the rest among the few trusted once's the fee is cheaper compared to bitcoin network, but when it comes to trust and security, Bitcoin is still top notch.

Why not use bitcoin lightning network instead? But just only few exchanges like Binance, OKX, BitMart, Kucoin, Paxful and few others that have bitcoin lightning network for deposit and withdraw, but there are a lot of wallets that are bitcoin lightning network wallets. Bitcoin developers have made it simple but most people do not want to use bitcoin lightning network for transaction.

If you were to make a payment for let us say, a VPN subscription, which costs $15, you will need to calculate how much the fees would cost and add that on top of the $15 when sending to ensure the correct amount gets to the service and you can still be wrong with it. The sender should always have full control of the fees paid and include it into the transaction themselves.

- Jay -

If I'm to make a transaction for myself, maybe from my wallet to another wallet or in exchange for cash, I can easily make use of the lightning network, but if I'm to send the payment to someone who doesn't have much crypto knowledge, it will cost me more to explain to them the process or to create a Chanel and the rest of them. Also, if I want to buy something online, it's easier to see a payment option like Altcoins. Aside from Bitcoin, I believe not everyone still understands and sees lightning network as an easy-going option.

transaction fee's are not based on value spend, but instead data used
the data of 1sat being spent vs 2099999997690000 sats being spent is no difference as both numbers fit in the 8 byte allotment of a value spend

thus all the OP is saying is the fee is $24 but becomes small if your spending huge amounts.. which normal people dont do
essentially saying its only cheap for abnormal elite users that can spend alot, but not cheap for normal people

if banks or paypal or any payment service were to charge $24 a payment people would and should be in uproar
but idiots who want bitcoin to only be used by the financial elite and then brush normal people aside/off to other networks think bitcoin is fine and affordable (for the elite)

It depends on the wallet that you are using. On Electrum wallet for example, if you have enough money to pay for the subscription and the bitcoin transaction fee, you can input $15 as the amount that you want to pay and Electrum will automatically deduct the fee from your remaining balance.


Some online sites are now including lightning payment but just few. The last payment I made online, I used lightning network. It was small amount of money and I have the money on an exchange which I used for it. But about sending bitcoin to someone, many people do not have lighting wallets, that is true. But some people that I sent back bitcoin to told me they want to receive it on an exchange, I simply tell them they can still use bitcoin if that is the case and they sent me invoice for bitcoin lightning payment.

About creating a channel, it can be hard on some wallets like Electrum, but it is newbie friendly on wallets like Phoenix, Zeus and Muun.

the lightning network is a different network. it uses different units of measure and doesnt use a blockchain, nor has a network wide audit mechanism nor a non-cheat function, nor a non-double-spend proof. its not a "bitcoin" network because it also uses different currencies and creates its own taro(junk) currencies

the whole point of bitcoin invention was the security a blockchain provides, the value the PoW of that blockchain security creates which gives btc its value
playing with other units on other weaker, buggy security of other networks is not using the benefits of bitcoin

to even suggest everyone else should use another network proves that idiots want bitcoin to remain the sector for the elites, rather than propose bitcoin to be used by the normal people


you are essentially saying dont use gold, use these vaulted up receipts called bank notes that (weakly) promise gold backing.. and yes there are many ways to break the peg promise of LN settlement

or another analogy
you are essentially saying(if LN was less buggy) dont use real money debit card, use credit card of iou's where you settle up later

Lightning network is not part of bitcoin blockchain but the layer 2 which is called the offchain but it is still bitcoin.

Let me ask you this question to let people know if what you are saying is true or not. Is the bitcoin lightning network proposed, accepted or rejected by the bitcoin community?

What I see as altcoins are what other developers that are not bitcoin developers developed. Example are the altcoins called bitcoin on other networks like BSC as an example.

Bitcoin lightning network was not rejected by bitcoin community. It was accepted.

It's true and I shortly noted about it too.


In security, power to fight against 51% attacks, Bitcoin is a strongest blockchain, most secured one.
How many confirmations are equivalent to 6 Bitcoin confirmations (https://howmanyconfs.com/)

A deep dive from Jameson Lopp on it.
How many Bitcoin confirmations is enough (https://blog.lopp.net/how-many-bitcoin-confirmations-is-enough/)
His tool, Bitcoin confirmation risk calculator.
https://jlopp.github.io/bitcoin-confirmation-risk-calculator/?ref=blog.lopp.net

What you said is true but I did not list all advantages of Bitcoin blockchain here and what bitcoin users should do like to save transaction fees with address type, inputs and outputs.

The rich like the sender of that transaction did not mind about it definitely but as you see my note, the poor with small funds, will feel this fee is expensive and they have to learn how to use Bitcoin blockchain, wallets better just to save transaction fee.

---

Two main points I wanted to share with this transaction are.

Bitcoin blockchain gives cheaper transaction fee for $300M transaction like this compares to bank transfers and other methods.
Transactions on Bitcoin blockchain are more secured, irreversible for big transactions like this, it is a best choice.

---

I can not predict future.

You can learn about mempools, non custodial wallets, fee rate and consolidate your small inputs or make transactions when you can save fee.

Fees are low, use this opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2848987.0)

With recent improvements in mempool conditions, do you think we'll see sustained lower fees? Also, what solutions do you think could help make Bitcoin transactions more affordable for those with smaller funds?

the lightning network is not limited to only function with bitcoin
much like the many networks that 'wrap' / peg many currencies
end of story

stop duping idiots into thinking LN is bitcoin.. you are not helping bitcoin nor yourself

also to note:
to use lightning to pay someone else.. the other person needs to be on lightning..
you cant just pay any bitcoiner using lightning. you can only pay other lightning users within lightning, thus its not an actual bitcoin thing. its a separate thing with a separate community of niche users

The lightning network is not limited to bitcoin just like the blockchain is not only limited to bitcoin. You can see the Omni layer on bitcoin blockchain that USDT used, you can see Ordinals NFTs, BRC20 and Runes but which are although not in bitcoin improvement proposal. You can also see other blockchains like ethereum, solana and many other blockchains that are now existing. Blockchain that was created through bitcoin existence has been done in a way that it can now be used for fiat and what that are not related to money at all. So is the lightning network.

I know you will not change in this argument. LoyceV has created a topic about you and your opinion about lighting network in the past. I searched for it but I did not see it. All I still remember was that your opinion was opposed. I wish I can see the thread again. If everyone is against you about something including the well known established members on this forum, you should know that you are wrong about it. No one supports that bitcoin lightning network is not part of bitcoin. Also the question I asked you, you did not answer it.

apart from a dozen disciples of a religious following of trying to force everyone off the bitcoin network(the topic you speak of, of the same regular zeolets).. the majority(tens of millions of people) still want to use BITCOIN

there are far more topics of far more people discussing BITCOINS need to onchain scale and be useful for the majority including those with small value. compared to the lesser amount of topics promoting buggy subnetworks

if you think people should not use bitcoin and should instead use other networks.. you are part of the niche religion of those prefering other networks

I can't stop laughing here reading your piece because I do not see any reason for it as the benefits you wanted to highlight are being overshadowed by the rising issues with Bitcoin at the same time. Aside from Bitcoin having too many issues of its own, your points are also hinting at a few of the issues if you are sincere with yourself. This is contradictory, so why the write-up?

What I appreciate the most about Bitcoin is the fact that it disgraced those top-world countries enjoying every benefit while people like us from developing countries suffer many restrictions in terms of cross-border payment and others, no thanks to them. Many of the cheap means were blocked due to reasons best known to them to the extent that we would have to use bank wire and some other payment gateways that are not cheap at all. But Bitcoin was introduced and solved that issue for us. But I am not going there, what I am trying to establish is that, that was one of the goals of Satoshi but this has been hijacked now by miners for selfish reasons.

Bitcoin is way higher than an average digital transaction now, this is unless you are cleverly watching the mempool all the time before you can make a single transaction that will average $1, which is still reasonable now. But with little time, you see the transaction moving insanely up again and this is too rampant these days. Should we call that reliability in the transaction? No, it is not. And if the rich can afford it as you said, or should I say those with a high amount of BTC, what about the poor and those who want to send a few bucks? What I see here is no appraisal, my friend, unless this among other issues is fixed.

This is only possible when the developers find a way to reduce the control of the miners to avoid fee exploitation the way we see it today.

Really? If I have $383,218,948 to transfer, I will certainly not find $24.76 fee ‘too much’. That's less than 0.00001% in fees. That guy spends your annual salary on a dinner and can leave a couple of thousand dollars in tips without finding anything too much. He was probably in a hurry to get confirmed and put in the maximum fee or even with custom fee a bit more.

BTC is not only for richer ones or the ones with more BTC in their holding, it should be available for everyone, although you are right, even if the transaction fee is higher than before, but it is still lesser in compared to the banking sector and fiat currency. They will cost us huge fee + tax, but with BTC we have to pay lesser fee, while many people have to pay the tax even but still its cost efficient. BTW, there was a person, (he was businessman) who was finding a way to send money from one country to another in cheap way.

And came up to know about BTC in around 2018, he then started to keep his savings in BTC and end up becoming a millionaire. Don't remember the details but you probably found him in this post. (https://www.cointree.com/learn/bitcoin-success-stories/). BTC still cheaper for rich people but its not cheaper anymore for poor ones like me, who can meet the expenses of 2 o 3 days with the amount of  one transaction fee.

bitcoin fees are not based on the amount spent..
so if you think bitcoin is cheaper then fiat then you need to change banks if they are charging you $25 per payment

again if you think paying paypal, venmo, or any payment processor $25 per payment then you are not normal

anyone thinking bitcoin charging $25 is acceptable are usually part of the religious cult that want people to use other networks instead of bitcoin so that bitcoin is left for just the elites to use.. and the funny part is the most cultish idiots promoting other networks as the solution are the low income idiots that are making themselves unable to use bitcoin by promoting themselves out of utilising bitcoin..
they are not helping themselves nor other bitcoiners.. and they cant even recognise the promotions they promote for what they are for

https://i.ibb.co/KNMDsJQ/IMG-9892.jpg

That transaction would have been cheaper than that sats spent to move the Bitcoin if it's was moved to a segwit wallet address but I can see that they were move to another legacy address. The fees would have also been cheaper if it was a single input and output transaction but the signer used 7 inputs and 2 outputs which make the size of the transaction to be more biger, this is why consolidation is necessary when fees are low.


The problem with moving funds from one wallet to another is that it breaks privacy especially when people has plenty of many inputs as blockchain analyst use this to track utxo that are spent and how they are spent but if the owner really priorize fees over privacy, this is the best time to consolidate all inputs to a single wallet address.

As for poor people who think the fees are still expensive, if they can't spend 10 sats for transaction for a single input and output, they don't have reason to be holding bitcoin in an external wallet because I'm not sure if mempool average fee will ever go to the lowest of 2 and 3 sats.

Because people want simplicity and self-custody, and truth be told, lightning is a pain in the ass. The more complex they find it, the more likely it is for them to use a custodian. So, instead, they use altcoins, which are simple and self-custodial.

For normal transactions, yes, but if you're moving 5000 bitcoin, you want it to be confirmed as soon as possible. The $25 is not even 0.00001% of the amount transferred. Good luck finding just 0.001% outside Bitcoin when moving $300M.

I wanted to emphasize this advantage of Bitcoin blockchain by sharing this transaction.

Cheap fee when you move a very big fund and Bitcoin blockchain can give you best security for your transaction, no reversed transaction after it get some confirmations.

People in the discussion moved far beyond the main point of this thread, just about fee for big fund movement and its security. They want to discuss everything about Bitcoin blockchain and transactions here.

Inbound, Outbound, Domestic, International, a lot of rules for fee.
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/money-transfer/wire-transfer-fees/

I don't know do they charge more if you move bigger fund?
Any difference in fee by moving $10,000 and $100M?

For services that charge by the percentage it will cost way more, so I do not expect anyone will move very large amounts using such services. Imagine paying even a 0.1% fee on a $100M transaction.

But for whatever financial service you use, the requirements, fees, and regulations will be high the higher the amount you are sending. Bitcoin could fit a billion dollar transaction into a tiny memory space and move it as easily as paying for a cup of coffee.

- Jay -