Bitcoin Forum

When I wake up, something better have happened! :)

Walls are starting to disappear... depth at far right has dropped about 8k BTC.

Is the Santa Manipulator still taking requests?
Please don't rally til after February..    my funds are tied up in other more boring things til then :(

Be careful what you ask for  ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNttHtP2Dtk

I would like to add my Christmas wish!  Please don't rally til my funds arrive from dwolla...  just a few more days..

fuck that, RALLY! i could use more purchasing power  :D

The rocket is secretly taking off?  I didn't know Pyongyang's news department was reporting on bitcoin.

It keeps looking like someone REALLY wants it to stay at 3.20. Keep selling and selling to 3.20.

I see that too!

Yeah, it has happened multiple times since i posted too. Like come on, stop trying to kill the rally! It looks like a person... or a person who created a bot, to prevent a rally. Perhaps one of these 'stabilizing bots' people have been talking about. If so, I don't like this, haha.

too me that always was trading lag... ?

Apparently others don't like the boring stability!  :P

But, it sure is great placing orders on both sides over and over again, watching them get executed nearly instantly.

A new ask wall just went up at 3.26. Houston, we have a problem?

All that volume, just to end up at the same price as we started.  ???
Someone wants to keep it down, and is still trying.

This 'benevolent stabilizer' crap is very annoying.

Word that... extremely annoying

Annoying indeed. Whoever they are, they just spent nearly $100k in the last 30 minutes stabilizing the price.

I honestly cannot see how a speculator could benefit from having the price stabilized.
Yes, stable prices are good for bitcoin evangelization.
Yes, stable prices are good for bitcoin merchants.
But no, stable prices are not good for speculators.

What's good for evangelicals and merchants is good for speculators who are long.

Agreed - that was a fun few minutes, though I was a bit late to the excitement and only made about 10 btc on the volatility:
https://i.imgur.com/LTEfV.png

And I'm really amused at the butthurt that a few bull speculators are feeling because the price isn't moving.  You know this is the first decentralized crypto currency, not your personal piggy bank, right?  And it looked like only 12k btc that someone sold into the attempted rally, not $100k USD.  And no, it wasn't me this time.

I think there's someone with a whole bunch of btc that wants to diversify their holdings.  I'm just glad that he/she is selling into rallies, and not wholesale dumping on the market and driving the price (and confidence) through the floor.

Perpetually increasing prices is actually bad for evangelicals, because it'll cause a repeat of the summer bubble. Bitcoin becomes harder to accept when it undergoes such unhealthy bubbles periodically.

Perpetually decreasing prices is annoying for merchants.
Perpetually increasing prices is annoying for customers, which results in lower sales, which in turn causes headaches for the merchants.
Which is why I said stable prices are good for merchants.

When did I say anything about perpetually increasing or perpetually decreasing prices?

Sorry if I misunderstood but when you said "What's good for speculators who are long" I just assumed you meant perpetually increasing prices.

I didn't say that either... but I digress.  I am long bitcoin in both ways: I hold bitcoins, and I am willing to hold that position "long" term.  Short term, I will sell into a rally or buy a dip to keep things liquid for those who have way more money and are in a bigger hurry, and of course, make a few bitcents.  But thanks for schooling me on bubbles Mr. I'm an expert after 11 days on the forums.

Apologies again for the misunderstanding then. The attack on my low post count was uncalled for though.

Sorry, I just get tired of hearing the same shit over and over.  Despite this account only being active since July, I've actually been around since February.  Yes mistakes were made, a bubble formed, and value was transferred from losers to winners.  However, I disagree that we will see a repeat of the summer bubble.  Just look at it on a weekly time scale and you'll see what a joke it was.  There's too much money to be made preventing it from bubbling, and much more legitimate volume this time around.  This time the greedy will learn patience and the fearful will learn resilience.

They have learned patience through losses, but today the greed is coming back slowly. And as I see it, to soon. The inflation at 3.26 USD are probably not sustainable, and who ever that is selling over 3.20 USD knows this, maybe they have inside information from Mt.Gox, and they don't want to lose more money.

I was talking about a purely hypothetical (not to mention impossible) situation where the price is perpetually increasing. Sorry for not making it more clear.

Anyone that is buying in to this rally are now facing two very big enemies. The inflation (from the Bitcoin framework) and the manipulators that are starting to understand fundamentals. The manipulators are taking over this market. And they will probably soon understand that they also can make money by taking it down as well, before that they were super super optimists and just saw stable or up-trends in the price. But greed and power corrupts so maybe they are seeing the opportunities both ways now. Lets say that they also have inside information from Mt.Gox, then this market is totally corrupt. Good luck trading successfully.

Oh well, than yes.  Hypothetically, perpetually increasing prices would cause a bubble repeat.  Also, once the realization sinks in that it is perpetually increasing, it will go vertical as people sell everything they don't need for survival for bitcoins.  Bitcoiners buy Manhattan from the natives for $160 trillion.  The natives are quite sore 1 year later when those greenbacks are worth a mere 2 BTC.  Then, people will only spend their bitcoins on necessities and BTC/USD prices will be irrelevant since all USD has been handed off to bagholders.

If somebody shorted 100k, a small buy will trigger a big rally.

FTFY

We are actually on the same page then.

I'll try to re-iterate my point again. Hopefully I can be more clear this time.

There are 4 possible scenarios:
1. Stable prices
2. Fluctuations
3. Perpetual increase
4. Perpetual decrease

#2 is bad for evangelicals because people are afraid of uncertainties.
#3 is bad for evangelicals because of the reason you mentioned above.
#4 is bad for evangelicals because people don't want to lose their money.

Which leaves #1, the best future for bitcoin evangelism.

Agreed, however, #3 and #4 don't exist in reality, so I'll prune them from my scenario list.  I'm doing my best to reduce #2 leading to #1, as are many others.  You don't want to strangle the price, but you want to keep fear and greed bounded so people make trades from a rational basis.

I think that the bitcoin market is going to be MUCH more wise going into a big rally a 2nd time...  There is so-many people who are willing to sell and keep the price stable now.

The big rally up to 32 was a big testing ground...  Now we have been there we know what to expect.

A healthy (new) market may make an mistake (the bubble).  However it doesn’t make the same mistake twice.

Back in August the inflation pressure argument was plausible and I saved a lot of money following it - now what you don't take into account is that there is quite a bit of chance that bitcoin will level up.

I would also like to bring Bitcoinica to the attention. Don't underestimate the volume it trades with.

Well, well...

http://i42.tinypic.com/351bi21.png

Yes.

The tired shuttle image seems too... majestic for bitcoin.  A prototype spacecraft seems more appropriate:
http://thefutureofthings.com/upload/items_icons/Armadillo-Aerospace-Lunar-V_large.jpg

That's much better.

Um...

Holy shit that was a big move. Something like 10,000 BTC buy up to 3.50!

https://i.imgur.com/piPqA.png

short-squeeze

Nice.  Sombody's using their bot to stop the rally.

Mtgoxlive down? Sierra Charts is showing a 3,65 high. Mtgoxlive topped at 3,57 and then died. Now Mtgoxlive is blank when reopening the page.

Looks like mtgoxlive went down. Mtgox says current price is 3.65!! So much for stopping the rally?

Interesting, so somebody bought all those coins that got quickly thrown up on the ask side when the price hit 3.57.

Yes, we hit a high of 3,67. We're now down to 3,58. Too bad I can't see the depth chart of Mtgoxlive. I'm wondering what the big holders are doing with their walls.

http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/

Use this.

http://bitcoinity.org/markets

Bitcoinity seems delayed or bugged at the moment.

Thanks! The depth charts of bitcoinity seem to be up to date though. Lots of weird movement. Let's see where this goes.

Thanks, I was just trying bitcoinity but it was moving backwards.

And bitcoinity is seriously messed up, too.  Heh.
https://i.imgur.com/LMNjV.png

Yeah, it's bugged.

bitcoincharts shows less than 30,000BTC to $5 right now.

You're all welcome.  :D And wow about 30,000btc to 5!

They have depth charts? Where can I find those? Thanks! :)

There we go.  Big sell-off.

Back to 3.30. How low will it go?

I doubt it will hit $4 today, too much resistance.

And now... LOL!  Mr. 3.20 woke up.

3.19.

Back to 3.20! Where the damn bot wants it to be! OMG

lmao nice sell trap.

Just watched it on clark moody :) impressive stuff

Does anyone know where I can find some working depth charts right now? Thanks! :)

Use bitcoin.clarkmoody.com and just look at the numbers.  It's better than a chart.  It's like watching the raw matrix data and it'll turn you into a real man.

look at da, shit!

Aaaaaand, back to the 3.6.

wow...
and i thought of buying again.

What the fuck, back to 3.60 so soon? And to think people thought the price was stable yesterday.

Meanwhile, the depth to $5 is getting weaker as the depth to $2 increases.

Pfff, Bitcoinica's spreads are insane when there's large movements. Almost impossible to profit of these huge spikes.

It's because returning back to 3.20 is an insane correction, almost artificial. I think the person should have waited longer, or turned off their bot. 3.7 right now.

Yeah, that looked silly.

Why bother with bitcoinica?  Sell high, buy low, easy enough to do with all this volatility.

One word: Leverage :)

Edit: Went long with 2:1 leverage at 2,218. Seems like it was a good decision =)

Mtgoxlive is back!

mtgoxlive is back  :D

hey look, I woke up and something happened.  Whaddya know ;D

High: 3.70! 

Yes it has been a fun couple hours.

grrr yeah I got wiped out again... I think it is bitcoinica's forced liquidations creating extremes

and people said Christmas was going to be a quiet period for btc

What's happening? A spam of <0.00 BTC trades, on both the ask and the bid side, making the ticker go up and down all the time really fast, without any actual trading volume.

holy shit... buy of 20k will take us to 4.7
buy of 40k will take us to 6.6

This is the biggest buying opportunity I've ever seen.

Hopefully people will keep waking up in the America's and see that opportunity. hehe

Meh... there were better buying opportunities yesterday.

Maybe there are trying to prevent as many legit trades coming through as possible, to dampen the effect of panic buying, because the price will be rising slower? That could prevent a major bubble. Still it's weird though.

Hehe and people will be hopefully saying that same tomorrow after today's prices are no longer an option.  ;D

Feels like April all over again... no ask depth and a ton of momentum.

I see plenty of trading volume.

Yeah, sorry, I know. What I meant is that those <0.00 BTC trades aren't creating any volume, but Mtgox is being spammed by them for some reason, making the ticker show upticks and downticks one after another on Mtgoxlive. It's weird. Ofcourse there are still real trades coming through, but a lot less. Are they trying to overload Mtgox with those spam trades, to slow down real trades?

I think the prevention of panic buying is a solid theory. I don't think they're achieving this by slowing down trades though, as mine are being registered almost instantly.

Maybe then they are trying to do this by effectively flatlining graphs with loads of <0.00 BTC trades in a very narrow range.

Oh, god, no.

Somebody sell some bitcoins... quick!

So are you caught super short, or are you just a miserable person in general?

With possible new all time highs. $50-$100 here we come.

Or are you just misinterpreting him? I think he doesn't want the Bitcoin to go through yet another bubble. He doesn't mind it rising steadily but slowly.

x2. Bitcoin experiencing another bubble like it did over summer would be devastating to adoption of BTC for trade.

I'm referring to pretty much every post he's made, not just this one. What a bunch of negative dreck.

We seem to be climbing again!

It begins... AGAIN!  :D

only 20k of cheap, sub $4 bitcoins left atm.

This will be fun to watch.

The ask site is nearly flat after $4  ::)

Thanks all. Sell 'em if you got 'em.

Ummm you're talking about a guy who used to define the word bull, sure he's been a bit down over the past few months but then again who hasn't  ;)

Not trying to be argumentative, but plenty of people haven't.

You know, I don't think the exchange rate would've ever gone below $10 if we hadn't had the bad news from several big bitcoin sites. That is, mtgox, mybitcoin and bitomat. The effect of those is clearly visible if you analyze the transaction sizes happening on the bitcoin network. Transactions moving 2000+ BTC vanished fast after mybitcoin and bitomat news broke out.

I agree.

+1... goddamn scammers

You guys are so wrong you can't even imagine how wrong you are. The downturn in Bitcoin price from June 2011 would have come no matter what, the inflation at that time was over 50 %, that is crazy numbers (knowing the price went up that fast), as I have said before, bulls and bears think as a herd. When things start to move up everyone wants to be in, when it goes down everyone panics at the same time. But from a fundamental point of view the inflation will put pressure on the price. This is more a short term thing.

Now we had a couple of this herd mentality actions on the up side. Next time it should be for the downside.

Cool. How much are you shorting right now?

This is what I wrote before (when it was stable at 3.20). Read it carefully. Exactly what I said happened, short term interest wanted the price at 3.50 and higher. I also said the "manipulator" wanted the price not much higher than 3.20 because they now understand the fundamentals, exactly that happened as well when they sold it down again to 3.20. My prediction now is that this was the last bull herd mentality up-tick, it will last maybe 2-3 days more maximum and then there will build up a panic for the down side, but the time frame for that is hard to know, probably within 1-2 months.

From before: "You are making the wrong assumption, this market is manipulated. This is how I see it, the price should be higher than 3.50 USD right now if everything was played as it normally is if you look at the order depth and knowing that it is very hard to get under 3 USD right now. Someone is building up this manipulation, I think they have bought a lot of bitcoins, they really don't want the price to go down, but at the same time they understand fundamentals so they are selling at 3.20 USD and over, by doing this and have a lot of buy order in the market, they are forcing this fake or manipulated stable behavior. At the same time they don't lose that much UDS or BTC, so they are playing the game of manipulating well (right now). The only way they can lose is if someone will sell massively in to this (fake) bid walls, then they will panic as always and the inflation and panic after that will make it worse. The thing is that we are at 3 USD and the downside is not that big. I think they have by doing this fundamentally put BTC around 1 dollar higher than it should be, but it is at a cost and right now we are printing 2,6 million BTC more until Dec 2012, so they will  probably lose (again) in the end. Time is on the downside."

Cool. So how much are you shorting right now?

Also by having this rally, the one with the bad hand isn't the manipulator right now, now that has been taking over by the ones that are buying today at 3.40 USD and higher. They will be the biggest losers in this manipulation game.

+1

I'm short, but my position was taken at 6 USD, not at this levels. Some of my short position was bought back at 2.30-2.50 USD and I have started to build back that position at this levels. I think that the downside is bigger than the upside in 1-2 months time. I usually don't trade my position.

I will build it up even more at 3.80-4 USD if we go there.

Can't be so complex, just short it if you like.

only 20k of cheap, sub $4 $5 bitcoins left atm.