Bitcoin Forum

1. The general public just doesn't really know about crypto collectibles or hologrammed coins/bars etc. (i'm leaning more towards this).

2. People don't want to get scammed due to tricksters or rug pulls from shady makers copying the private keys in creation (definitely more relevant).

3. We are still very early and this space is still maturing & growing.

4. There could be other places online that people are publicly collecting & showing their coins/ products (less likely).

5. There is a lack of interest because collectibles are already a very niche space to begin with.

I think it is the prices being put on collectibles - feels like a bubble that is going to pop and soon. Premiums are getting insane.

Because of this and for some, collectibles may not make much sense financially - if you are buying any collectible with Bitcoin - you most likely will never profit - you will not be able to sell it for more BTC than you paid. And if you are buying with Fiat you would profit better to simply buy and hodl Bitcoin.

That and most sellers are charging premiums thru the roof. You have makers who are new "buy hey I only made 21 so 20x premiums make sense"  --- It really doesn't. But those makers will still have buyers who buy out of fomo or who dont really care about the premiums and just like the piece.

In my opinions when premium was in the 10%-25% range or even as high as 50%, there was a lot more traffic. But 1000% premiums and up tends to slow traffic.

I see 10g silver coins being sold for around 100 or more in USD. Or 1 oz being sold for $500 plus but hey, there is only 50 or less so "super rare".

Those prices make sense to me for older and well established makers. Makes zero sense to me for the new ones. That said, I sometimes also still buy at these crazy rates. Many do. I just think it is lower with the higher premiums being demanded.

Heck, I just paid around $500 for a non precious metal coin with $15 in BTC because it was 1 of 5 made. It happens. lol

I agree - the people buying these "limited mintage" grams of precious metals, new producer who's a snake oil saleman.. yeah yeah yeah they will never get their money back. I also have to agree that I would have WAY MORE $$$ AND BTC if I would have just bought btc instead of collectibles... but some of us are just addicts

With all of the coin collectors out there and crypto stackers I am very surprised that this space isn't shown more interest by these groups as well as the general public. Now this could be for a variety of reasons:

1. The general public just doesn't really know about crypto collectibles or hologrammed coins/bars etc. (i'm leaning more towards this).

2. People don't want to get scammed due to tricksters or rug pulls from shady makers copying the private keys in creation (definitely more relevant).

3. We are still very early and this space is still maturing & growing.

4. There could be other places online that people are publicly collecting & showing their coins/ products (less likely).

5. There is a lack of interest because collectibles are already a very niche space to begin with.

6. What am I missing?

Now there are some recent developments that I definitely won't downplay that are incredible so lets look at those bullet points

• Stacks Bowers & Heritage Auctions
• PCGS & ICG Grading crypto coins regularly - NGC with the one off Otto collection

Am I missing anything here above?


I am also curious where there might be other congregations and groups of collectors in this space outside of Btalk

1. Instagram
2. Redditt
3. Facebook
4. Other Forums

Can you guys list any specific groups where there are crypto collectible enthusiasts or other lesser known populations of folks into this hobby? ....

I think a physical in person art gallery of physical btc coins, if advertised correctly could grow the demand 10X over night for sure. Imo

With all of the coin collectors out there and crypto stackers I am very surprised that this space isn't shown more interest by these groups as well as the general public. Now this could be for a variety of reasons:

1. The general public just doesn't really know about crypto collectibles or hologrammed coins/bars etc. (i'm leaning more towards this).

2. People don't want to get scammed due to tricksters or rug pulls from shady makers copying the private keys in creation (definitely more relevant).

3. We are still very early and this space is still maturing & growing.

4. There could be other places online that people are publicly collecting & showing their coins/ products (less likely).

5. There is a lack of interest because collectibles are already a very niche space to begin with.

6. What am I missing?

Now there are some recent developments that I definitely won't downplay that are incredible so lets look at those bullet points

• Stacks Bowers & Heritage Auctions
• PCGS & ICG Grading crypto coins regularly - NGC with the one off Otto collection

Am I missing anything here above?


I am also curious where there might be other congregations and groups of collectors in this space outside of Btalk

1. Instagram
2. Redditt
3. Facebook
4. Other Forums

Can you guys list any specific groups where there are crypto collectible enthusiasts or other lesser known populations of folks into this hobby? ....

Well, look at the loudest people in the room and see how they speak about the hobby? They definitely aren't helping. They are probably lying leviathan spirits at best. Be careful who you associate and believe out there. Leviathan spirits lie and try to influence those around them to believe the lies. Then they kill spirits of others. The world is running wild with them right now. Its always the ones who speak ill of others yet never create, lift people up in the hobby or give to help benefit others, but boy do we get to here their "educated" negative opinions. I'm just glad I get to irritate the little demons with my presents and "Shine MY Light On The Battlefield"! ;D Moving on!

I don't view my pieces as collectables (even though they are or will be, because of what they are) as much as I view them as tools of freedom. I think people are extremely  undervaluing open cold storage pieces too. We haven't had an event yet that would demand them, but I can see it manifesting.

I'm making pieces now that I wish someone would have made for me to acquire a decade ago. The truth is, Caribbean Treasures pieces are some of the most economical, authentic, territorial peer to peer trade units on the market. To some its a collectable, to others its a barter system currency that provides precious metals, blockchain access and or access to bitcoin on the blockchain.  If you can score a silver cold storage piece for under $100, that is a win in my book. I think OG has a 3-coin set that a pretty cheap, but they still have to pay $168.00 entry price for them. $120 for a single.  $25-$85 is better entry for people. The whole point is having exchangeable units in cold storage, not weight of a metal. I like OGs pieces and own them, but his pieces would do better if they were to serve the customer more. Most people aren't going to type up a public key on a coin. We need to make it easier for people to do. Thats why the adoption of using more QR codes is happening. Id focus more on the security and ease of use for people rather than making a pretty picture too. A lot of people are intimidated by bitcoin and will find it annoying if they have to take 2 min worth of time to type in a public key that they will probably type in incorrectly the first time around anyway. I can hear their frustration now.....as they walk away.

I believe cold storage on precious metals will perform very well, others seem to have little faith.  If you can't afford my $65 and $85 silver built pieces, I have some even more economical pieces in copper coming soon.  ;) I think these "territorial" fractional trade units will perform similar to how private territorial pieces have performed over the last 100 years. This is without the bitcoin value attached. Then you have the more cartoony themed pieces on cheaper metals and I believe they will perform more closely to how commemoratives / Hard time tokens performed over the last 100 years. My 2 sats.

Its not hard guys! When at all time highs, Sell physical for dollars. When we crash down, buy bitcoin with the dollars. It just depends on what you are trying to get. Buy the rare cold storage pieces at all time highs. Sell them when it crashes for more bitcoin. If you have questions just ask.

I came into the hobby long ago (2011) when bitcoin wasn't about making any money, it was about using a better system. I was an "END THE FED" Ron Paul campaigner 2008-2012 who talked to people on their door steps about individual liberty, monetary policy and sound money. I still do this from time to time. Just this week I have introduced 12 people to physical bitcoins that knew little about it before. Gifting physical pieces is my "love language" and I do it as often as I can afford to. The spark and interest it builds up in them is great to see. We need more people doing this. Also, the more governments try to dissolve privacy, the more people will move our way.....its a tool remember that, a freedom tool.

If you don't believe you can profit off silver pieces that you can acquire right now for under $100 is pretty funny. People will eventually wish they could get them for under $100, Just like most pieces built before them are now hard to find under $500 redeemed.

I too try to have 1 of everything Mopar! I'm a little behind on the newer items. We need a new updated encyclopedia. I remember buying redeemed brass pieces from $100-150. Thats still a good buy if you ask me. Thats why I like $65 silver built pieces even more ;)

I think the way we are moving and how world events are merging to a currency crisis, we will soon see people fleeing dollars and seeking protection and freedom outside the system. We will see them move into bitcoin, real estate, gold and silver. We will be seeing new all time highs on collectables too. All the dollars that aren't in the USA i believe will be coming back to our shores to buy what they can. Be ready.......because physical silver and gold bitcoin storage pieces will be hotttt!

We are early!

When people seek freedom, they will find silver and gold cold storage pieces. I think we are on the verge of a whole new generation of truth and freedom seekers. People are tried of being lied to, losing privacy, losing freedom and being spiritually dead. Ultimate freedom is finding God! It is an exciting time to be alive.

Also, when you have events like FTX and Coldkeys hurting people, it will damage peoples view of our hobby for awhile. Whether it be bitcoin in general or cold storage pieces. I remember people buying at $65,000 and then it crashed down to $16,000, They stopped buying at these cheap prices because they got hurt.

There is a couple groups on facebook that I know of, (Send PM if you want in) but I don't think we will be able to find a small group of people trading physical bitcoins we have never seen before in the mountains somewhere, even though that would be amazing. I'm sure most all have an online presents. Let me know if you find more groups.

https://i.ibb.co/Cvf9Jgh/441866992-10160489672693305-9129577839520606760-n.jpg (https://ibb.co/K7JsNdF)
https://i.ibb.co/cQSnpBB/444167262-10160518168603305-3187050251082665978-n.jpg (https://ibb.co/CQ3GXcc)
https://i.ibb.co/2skQtdw/holo1-Funded.jpg (https://ibb.co/7R15WKH)
https://i.ibb.co/0CbHCw2/375196902-1450525462405572-4681962264416863610-n.jpg (https://ibb.co/gSKkSn9)

been a dream of mine since 2021 - I just simply aint that rich lol

 There was a guy here selassie soldier? who is planning on opening one in FLorida someday.

  I have even donated some of my CypherHodl items just for the museum, including a Smart Contract Timelock Clock redeemable in the year 2100  :D

  Also, with the fallout of Skamkey I have seen OG's selling their Bitbills and Cas coins.

  I think that is a big factor in people making any decisions from getting into our hobby...especially with the high end loaded items.

  

6. What am I missing?

I would say the massive amount of BTC that has been scammed by shady people selling loaded collectibles is what keeps this hobby from being taken seriously.  Not to mention creators that don't scam their customers are attacked by alt accounts of other creators in an attempt to funnel customers away from them leaving new users unsure of who can be trusted.  Just look at the people who leave me negative trust feedback for selling $100 coins that are backed by an entire organization and community of people which also accumulate BTC, but leave positive trust to folks like Bitcoin Penny who stole from their customers and are now selling $30 pieces of silver backed by nothing that don't accumulate anything or even have holograms for $150 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5499121.0)!  Not to shit on BCP, but that's just one example of the hypocrisy here that a compromised trust network has fostered.  Until it's more clear who can be trusted and who is just trying to get some easy USD pretending to be friends with users here in chat rooms all day to fleece their "friends" with overpriced goods, I think this hobby will continue to struggle.  Just my $0.02 as someone who has been heavily involved in this trade for more than 13 years.

 There was a guy here selassie soldier? who is planning on opening one in FLorida someday.

  I have even donated some of my CypherHodl items just for the museum, including a Smart Contract Timelock Clock redeemable in the year 2100  :D

  Also, with the fallout of Skamkey I have seen OG's selling their Bitbills and Cas coins.

  I think that is a big factor in people making any decisions from getting into our hobby...especially with the high end loaded items.

  

security would be the biggest cost, but to se something up to have it at the bitcoin conference would be amazing, just like they do the mini art gallery, maybe next year we can throw something together, I would love to display my collection, its super eclectic

other factors must be taken into account.

It's not easy to become a collector. many of us come from other fields (numismatic, philatelic etc - my username has "bollo" inside. this is not casual = francobollo (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francobollo)). many other bitcoiners, although in love with the technology and the world behind it, simply do not want to spend money on crypto-themed objects.

that's another factor. the cost.
when I started interfacing in this world/forum M. Caldwell was still active on this forum.
But I would never have bought one of his products because with that premium I would have simply invested that amount in the direct purchase of coins...
my fault. the same I had with bitcoin, it took me a long time to understand the innovation/vault of these stuffs.

Some time ago I also posted a similar thread, wondering why art galleries "snub" our sector.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5497101.msg64100969#msg64100969
and considering that I care much more about values ​​and certain ideals, I am organizing at my own expense here in Italy a 3-day exhibition/conference in which to talk about bitcoin/crypto collectibles themed objects (last weekend of September)

I will give you all the details in the next few days, we are finalizing the contract with the art gallery.
Meanwhile I have reached some fellow collectors and artists, more to come...

I was at a bar in Brooklyn, NY last summer and was doing a public poll for my own entertainment to gauge sentiment.

I shit you not I asked about 300 people in the span of the day about Bitcoin. People from age 21-35 and only 3 people owned Bitcoin, and of those 3 only one had it in cold storage.

We are so early with Bitcoin itself it is no wonder why the Bitcoin collectibles space hasn't taken off yet.

I suspect it might be another 10 years before Casascius coins get any real traction.

For a while now, my gut has told me one day some massively, large influencer,/celebrity, or politician or possible public figure will show an interest in these coins by talking about them publicly, and they will become instantly one of the most hottest physical collectibles on the planet. I’ve always wished they’d make a movie like the Italian Job, but instead of them stealing gold bars,  it’s a briefcase full of Lealana coins.

yes that is g moses (as he goes by in several other channels such as telegram) - he stole my idea lol actually we kinda both came up with the idea around the same time.

George is like my brother - very good guy. and man you give donations of items? make the sucker pay, he can afford it lol

his account was locked here and he has been unsuccessful in getting the admins to unlock it and he has refused to make a new forum account as far as I know.

New funded collectibles are becoming and should be a thing of the past.  This isn't hate, or misinformation or anything like that, it's just how it is and should be, quite frankly.  Anyone can say or think whatever they want, but I know this space as well as anyone (sans MinerJones and Tweetious).  Most new makers just don't know what they are doing or how to appeal to the general collective.  I would say for any newer makers, take a page out of Alpen Coins book.  Despite being funded, which I know even he is on the fence about doing, he's the perfect example of how to become a new coin maker whos appeals to the masses, and does things right. I hold Frank in very high regard as his execution and continued progress has been great.  

Old funded stuff like Casascius and BTCC will always remain popular/desired/etc

Thats an interesting view C, my thinking is that there should be constantly new makers
making themselves known in order to help progress. Maybe a new Alpencoin will be
born tomorrow, who knows?

If we were all just hunting Casascius and BTCC there would be no Alpen, Cypher, Polymerbit etc.

I would like to hear more about why new makers will be a think of the past?

I like to see new makers appearing but I like it more when they expand and continue
to create rather than a one off offering.

I definitely would have to agree with you here, if it wasn't for folks like Alpencoin and Polymerbit & so many others keeping this hobby alive then eventually all this section would be is only a place to find some of the few remaining Casascius or BTCC coins left that at some point will become too expensive for most to aquire unless they are already peeled.

I think that having variety and especially coins that keep up with the times & portraying relevant current events help to frame those events in history in our unique space and also represent the lifeblood of our hobby.

Surely you will come across the scum of the hobby who steal the coins and appear to be good people but then stab you in the back. That is unfortunate but that is the sheer nature of cryptocurrency and frankly the sheer nature of this world unfortunately.

I am very bullish on the outlook of this space and I for one am very excited for what new makers and new coins will bring, a fresh perspective and hopefully new and innovative designs & types of coins.

I think right now we are in a fragile state with recent current events but I think we are not far from having a lot more demand and interest flooding in, especially when Bitcoin strikes fresh new ATHs & some of the original makers and even new makers break records in auctions sales and the press & other celebs bring attention to it.

Stay vigilant my friends! Have a positive outlook on this hobby because the best may have already come but we sure have a heck of a lot more to look forward to in my book.

Yes - security would be a definite need.


what I would love to have is a space where I can have my 3d printers, my lasers - basically my shop - set up, but then also have display areas for all of my collectibles and any that anyone else would want displayed, have areas where people can display pieces for sale (like consignment) they could also then list them on sale on various sites and if they sold, I would simply package/ship them out, a space for VR - where people could enter Bitcoin/crypto VR spaces - I know of at least 3 that exist now and I am sure there are others. A gallery for art etc

Before COVID I was looking at a building that could have done this but they put the sale on hold (due to covid - I think the seller got sick) and then I spent a lot of Bitcoin helping family - most who lost jobs due to covid - for example several of my daughters were servers so the restaurants laid them off.  Not to mention our unemployment system was broken, would crash repeatedly so it was hard for them to even file their weekly claims. I also used 2 Bitcoin to pay off my mom's house.

Needless to say, when it calmed down and the kids were going back to work, I was down about 5 btc and could no longer entertain getting the building - which had also nearly doubled in price.

I still hope to do this one day though :)

I’m probably not the first one to propose this idea, but what if we got a Headstart for next years 2025 bitcoin conference and we all chipped in to have a booth that’s strictly for the bitcoin talk collectible section? it would give us enough time to raise funds for a couple security guards and We’re logistical planning and tables and banners. I would be willing to donate the first $500 in Btc, we could have MJ Escrow the fund.

Would love to know everyone thoughts 🤠

I’m probably not the first one to propose this idea, but what if we got a Headstart for next years 2025 bitcoin conference and we all chipped in to have a booth that’s strictly for the bitcoin talk collectible section? it would give us enough time to raise funds for a couple security guards and We’re logistical planning and tables and banners. I would be willing to donate the first $500 in Btc, we could have MJ Escrow the fund.

Would love to know everyone thoughts 🤠

Booths aint cheap... pretty sure Mopar told me normal cost was around $25k ?? not 100% sure though.....
Maybe something partnering with James at Stacks and Bowers would be pretty cool. :D

Good thread tread! lots of good discussion

Booths aint cheap... pretty sure Mopar told me normal cost was around $25k ?? not 100% sure though.....
Maybe something partnering with James at Stacks and Bowers would be pretty cool. :D

Thanks m8! :D



I feel like James and the team would definitely welcome the idea! I am curious if they will keep the conference in Tennessee next year as well? Man I hope they bring it back to Miami! I am pretty sure they will after they hear all the folks flying internationally & hear of all the hassle they had to go through just to make it this year they might consider it. But who knows. I am so down to either try and partner up for something like that. I know one thing is for sure that if i'm going next year I sure won't miss the Btalk physical crypto collectors meet up  8) Last years was so dope, although it was a little crammed and didn't really ideally get to meet every single person there and get to figure out exactly who they were on here but hey we will all eventually meet each other as long as we keep up over the years :D

I was told the booths ranged from 15k to 25k - mad crazy expensive.

I was at a bar in Brooklyn, NY last summer and was doing a public poll for my own entertainment to gauge sentiment.

I shit you not I asked about 300 people in the span of the day about Bitcoin. People from age 21-35 and only 3 people owned Bitcoin, and of those 3 only one had it in cold storage.

We are so early with Bitcoin itself it is no wonder why the Bitcoin collectibles space hasn't taken off yet.

I suspect it might be another 10 years before Casascius coins get any real traction.

I am a newbie here . I definitely joined because of physical bitcoin. I am actually working on my own crypto coin (like everyone else). It will be some time before I am there. I am going to produce doge and shib coins , if I make it. I have metals and am starting with sand casting, but will probably move up to a coin press before I make the leap. Any recommendations/advise would be welcome. Actually, any advice is welcome. I actually anticipate this market growing considerably. As crypto sees wider adoption, I am betting on these increasing in value, just because the crypto will increase in value .
I note that large coins sell for a lower premium. Not a lot of people with $7m on hand. Asking $14m for a 10 bitcoin token seems steep.

Speculation on speculative currency is risk on top of risk. I’m in. This is the future!

BTC  Media the host of the conference is based in Nashville, so I am guessing the conference will be in Nashville for coming years...   just a guess :D

One concern of mine about the physical collectibles is if BTC does hit a million and I did want to sell the coin who is going to buy it? Not sure its ever happened, but has anyone ever peeled a perfectly good legitimate coin and something was wrong? Private key unreadable or just not there? Pretty big risk by the buyer at that price point. I would really hate to peel any of my coins.

Perhaps in the future a mainstream BTC/crypto physical collectible will catch on, something pretty well marketed and mass produced, then from there people will research earlier collectibles and these things will really become popular. If BTC hits 1 Million, then someone with a 1000 BTC Casascius will be hodling a billion dollar coin. That will be something the media might jump on and normies would have to take notice.

I have thought about all of this quite deeply. I come from a family of collectors, antique dealers. Grew up collecting coins, sports cards, and am quite knowledgeable in all types of collectibles.

Nobody knows anything about crypto, nobody has any idea about these crypto physical collectibles. I believe these collectibles will continue to rise in value, but it will be a niche market (just like it is now). So many people are already priced out on these things. The only people I see really buying these things is people who made some money on BTC/crypto and stumbled upon our forum or rich Boomers who sit at home and bid on auctions for things they don't need.

Unfortunately, the younger generations don't care for silver or gold or physical collectibles really. I wanted to gift my nephew and niece some Silver Morgans instead of giving them cash for Christmas and they couldn't have cared less. Last bull run, I absolutely loathed NFTs, but then I started to see how the younger generation absolutely vibed with it. So many of those kids spend countless hours on role playing games gaining xp and trying to get rare objects. So NFTs were kinda like a real world version of it.

Just this year I started following more about Ordinals/Inscriptions/etc. and I think that is going to be the ultra collectible item. Rare sats/early sats, sats from significant transactions,  maybe alot of you already know about this stuff. But these are the things normies can probably afford. But I can only imagine when BTC hits some incredible dollar values (i.e. 1 million per BTC) that sats will become some of the best and most liquid BTC memorabilia (and certainly nobody can scam or rob you on those and everything can be verified and stored away safely). And honestly, as much as I hated NFTs, because Ordinals/NFTs are on BTC, I kinda like some of them and even bought a couple "blue chips", hahaha. Perhaps I can accept it because i just see the opportunity to potentially gain more BTC. But I still feel like these kids that made it big on ETH NFTs last cycle are constantly searching for another win and Ordinals on BTC is something they can vibe with and we still more and more of that money cross over to the BTC/Ordinals NFT ecosystem.

I love my physical coin collection and I'd probably never even sell any of it, but I think only older rich folks are the ones who will "buy our bags", people with too much money looking to diversify their investments a bit. Last cycle a good buddy of mine was telling me how Steve Aoki (a famous DJ), just aped 10 million bucks worth of sports cards to put some money somewhere else. Our collectibles are way better than that garbage, and certainly much more rare and scarce. It still blows my mind people are paying Tens of thousands of dollars for such common baseball/collectible cards that flooded the market 1989 and onwards (i.e. pokemon card, Ken Griffey Jr rookie card, anything after 1990 for sure). But now that the BTC ETFs have been approved all these Boomers finally accept BTC as a real thing. I imagine that sentiment will carry over into the numismatics world and demand will grow amongst traditional coin collectors.

One concern of mine about the physical collectibles is if BTC does hit a million and I did want to sell the coin who is going to buy it? Not sure its ever happened, but has anyone ever peeled a perfectly good legitimate coin and something was wrong? Private key unreadable or just not there? Pretty big risk by the buyer at that price point. I would really hate to peel any of my coins.

Perhaps in the future a mainstream BTC/crypto physical collectible will catch on, something pretty well marketed and mass produced, then from there people will research earlier collectibles and these things will really become popular. If BTC hits 1 Million, then someone with a 1000 BTC Casascius will be hodling a billion dollar coin. That will be something the media might jump on and normies would have to take notice.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

I usually buy collectibles because I like them in some way.  They speak to me.  They mark the journey that I went through.  I do not expect them to gain value in any way vs holding bitcoin.  But I only have one life, and I do like to enjoy some physical things once in a while. Therefore each buy in carefully considered against just buying bitcoin instead.   

Recently, I've noticed that while some of the quality of some items has drastically improved, the premiums are just way too high.  On top of this, my concern is with loaded items.  Now that we know that the "dust" on main chain will keep going up due to fees, why are artist STILL making pieces with small amount of sats on mainchain on those physicals?  I'd much rather have an unloaded item that I like in hand, than having a loaded item that will become unspendable some day (and that i paid much higher for!)  The premiums are already through the roof... I just don't get it... Is the goal to ultimately have those traded like an opendime?