Bitcoin Forum

The biggest misconception in the world of cryptocurrencies is that they are assets—specifically, a monetary type of asset. This is a misconception for a simple reason: within cryptocurrency networks or systems, there is no resource that can provide a benefit to cryptocurrency owners. And it is precisely this ability to provide a benefit that defines an asset. Let's look at a few examples of assets to understand this.

With stocks, owners can benefit from the company's profits or capital. Profits can be paid out as dividends, and capital can be liquidated or used to repurchase shares.

With real estate, precious metals, oil, wheat, etc., the benefit comes from the things themselves. That is, owners can use them for housing, making jewelry and electronics, obtaining energy or food, etc.

Fiat currencies are a more complex example of assets, where the benefit comes from debt. Commercial and central banks create units of these currencies by lending to companies, individuals, and governments. This means the units represent debt. People then invest goods, services, and labor in that debt by exchanging them for the units with the aforementioned debtors. However, since debtors must return the units to banks, current owners of the units benefit from this. Because companies and individuals must sell them goods, services, or labor every time they need the units for loan repayments. And governments must allow them to pay taxes in these units. If companies and individuals do not make these sales, they will default. Then, unit owners will benefit by having the banks sell them the seized property of those debtors to obtain the units to close out unpaid loans.

Within cryptocurrency systems, nothing like this exists. There are no resources that can provide a benefit to cryptocurrency owners. There are only records.

For example, a few moments ago, one person gave another $61,182. In the Bitcoin system, this was recorded as an increment of 1 to the number associated with the first person's address and a decrement of 1 to the number associated with the second person's address. Initially, people gave each other $0.001 for the same numerical update (+1/-1).

Obviously, these numerical updates do not represent a transfer of an asset in the amount of 1, as would be the case with stocks or fiat currencies. That's simply because a person whose number has increased does not, as a result, have the ability to realize greater benefit from a resource within the cryptocurrency system. With stocks or fiat currencies, such a person would be able to receive a larger dividend from a company or more goods, services, or labor from bank debtors.

From the above, it follows that, contrary to popular belief, that famous decentralized database (blockchain) doesn't store the record of transactions. For a transaction to occur and be recorded, there must be an asset that changes owners. However, within cryptocurrency systems, no assets are involved—only records of changes in numbers associated with digital addresses.

What the blockchain actually stores is an activity log. This log tracks the operation of a scheme resembling a pyramid scheme, where participants give each other assets in the hope of receiving more assets from new participants in the future. With each such giving, the log is updated via so-called "wallet" applications, and everything is stored on the blockchain. The log is also automatically updated through cryptocurrency protocols when so-called "miners", using a trial-and-error method, find a number that meets the conditions of that protocol.

So when a person "buys" or "mines" 2 "bitcoins" for $120,000 or 300,000 kWh of electricity, they have actually paid 120 or 300 thousand units of an asset into the scheme and received the ability to change the numbers associated with digital addresses by +2 and -2. After that, they need new participants to return the same or another type of asset. Otherwise, they become a victim of the scheme.

In conclusion, since cryptocurrencies are often presented to the public in economic terms, their owners believe they possess a monetary type of asset and use it to make transactions. However, since the asset with which transactions would be made does not exist, what they actually possess is the ability to update the logs of modern pyramid schemes. In every pyramid scheme, participants give someone their asset, and in return do not receive another type of asset, but a promise, a receipt, a confirmation, or some other form of record — which is the case with cryptocurrencies.

... You've certainly given me food for thought. The way you've described it, one could argue that cryptocurrency lacks the fundamental trait that defines an asset. There's no tangible use or financial benefit to it, besides the abstract belief that its value will rise in the future.

Yet it still works, somehow. People still... put value into it.

What people do is put entries into the log. And they give things with value (assets) to others. That's how the scheme operates, it "works" by definition. Why it works? It's like with every other pyramid scheme - participants hope that new participants will give them more assets in the future. But this always collapses. Then it doesn't "work." Of course, Bitcoin and Shitcoins will not collapse as they are logs, and some copy of the log will always exist on someone's computer. The scheme where people give assets to others is what will collapse.

Are you trying to say, that solving some math problems is worthless? SHA-256, ECDSA, and a lot of other things, are also used outside Bitcoin.

This is true only for test networks.

It is very hard to get that. Even test coins were supposed to be worthless. And they reached some non-zero value again, which is why we are moving from testnet3 to testnet4.

All your posts have the theme of wanting your readers to believe that something that clearly exists, doesn't. Its the equivalent of a group of people standing around a glass of water while you tell them that the glass isn't really there, and the water inside it is imaginary.


First of all, nobody thinks that. Second of all, you contradicted your premise by admitting that Bitcoin is an asset.

Solving mathematical stuff in the cryptocurrency systems is not only worthless. But it has enormous negative value because it wastes a lot of energy on a useless job - updating a log of a pyramid scheme.

Btw, coins, that is log entries, are free to download. Thus, all of them are worthless.

I'm surprised by the way you say that cryptocurrencies and mathematical records are useless and just waste energy and time.

Have you considered the possibility that these technologies have many applications in the modern world? Have you ever considered that they could be an important tool to protect users' digital rights and ensure the transparency and integrity of records? Before you say stupid things, study and do your research.

State governments must plan to make a lot of jewelry then, because otherwise all that gold kept in their coffers wouldn't make sense. It's almost as if fiat currencies have limited value outside of their respective economies, reducing them to activity logs once we talk about international trade.

so many coins and tokens in crypto have a lot of similar features like stocks. you can earn profits by holding them or staking them in their native platforms. for example ethereum and other POS coins.
and so many defi tokens have similar utilities too.
I'm not very expert but to me cryptocurrencies are pretty much assets and I am happy with that.

In the same way, stocks can be downloaded, and you can see on many exchanges, that "someone bought X" or "someone sold Y". Are stocks worthless, because of that?

1. Traditional banking wastes more: https://bitcoincleanup.com/
2. If solving math problems are wasteful, then why mathematicians are trying to compute a lot of digits of pi? Or trying to find huge prime numbers? Is all of that just a waste of time and resources?
3. Banks also use some cryptography. Does it mean, that they are also wasting resources?

That's not technology but protocols for decentralized storage. Records can be stored centrally or decentrally. Point? What are you trying to say in the context of this topic? What exactly are you opposing in the OP?

It seems you have problems understanding what value is. Value is that benefit described in the OP. In other words, it is the expected benefit that a resource can provide in the future to owners. In stocks that resource is capital and profits of a company. So if a company has a positive equity and produce profits its stock is valuable. We can argue how big that value is but that doesn't change the fact of its existence.

With cryptocurrencies however, no resource exists that can provide benefit to cryptocurrency owners. So there's no value that you can determine or talk about. Only a log exists that crypo owners can update via wallet applications. And that log can be downloaded for free by anyone.

I'm afraid I must step in and correct some of the misinformation being spread in this thread. The original poster (OP) seems to be spreading falsehoods and misconceptions about cryptocurrencies, and I can't stand by and let that continue.

First of all, the OP claims that cryptocurrencies are not assets because they don't provide any benefit to their owners. This is simply not true. Cryptocurrencies, like Bitcoin, have value because people are willing to buy and use them as a form of digital currency. They have all the characteristics of an asset: scarcity, utility, and transferability.

Furthermore, the OP's explanation of what constitutes an asset is flawed. They claim that assets must provide a benefit to their owners, but this is not the case. Assets can have value for a variety of reasons, including their scarcity, their usefulness, or their potential to increase in value.

The OP also claims that cryptocurrency transactions do not involve the transfer of an asset, but this is clearly not the case. When one person sends Bitcoin to another, they are transferring ownership of that Bitcoin. It's true that the transaction is recorded on a blockchain, but this does not make it any less of a transaction.

Finally, the OP's characterization of cryptocurrency systems as pyramid schemes is not only false, but also dangerous. Pyramid schemes are illegal and fraudulent, while cryptocurrencies are a legitimate and rapidly growing form of digital currency. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the OP's actions are borderline criminal.

In short, the OP's post is full of misinformation and falsehoods. I urge anyone reading this thread to do their own research and come to their own conclusions about cryptocurrencies. Don't be fooled by the dangerous lies being spread by this individual.

When you "buy" Bitcoin, what you have actually bought is the ability to update the log. There are no assets involved here. And it is assets that have value or possess features like scarcity, utility, and transferability.

Further, an "asset" is defined as a resource that provides benefit. There’s nothing flawed about this definition.

When one person sends Bitcoin to another, they are merely transferring the ability to change the numbers associated with digital addresses—nothing more. There are no assets involved here. No transactions with an asset are actually taking place; only the log is being updated.

Finally, cryptocurrency systems are not pyramid schemes. They are decentralized logs that track the operations of pyramid schemes. A pyramid scheme occurs when you give an asset to someone without receiving another asset in return. You then hope that, in the future, someone else will join so you can get some asset back.

P.S. Your accusation of me spreading dangerous lies was pretty hilarious given that you're the one who does that.

Don't assert something as fact that has been disputed and discussed by economists for literally hundreds of years at this point :) That definition of value is your definition of value. And while it's a definition that might be shared by many people, it's not the definition of value and it's not even necessarily a useful definition of value.



Within your framework, the value of cryptocurrencies comes from enabling frictionless monetary transactions. Short of that, the majority of stocks in the finance sector would be, by your definition, not assets either.

You go round in circles. There are no monetary transactions. Transactions are done with assets. In crypto, a log is updated - which manifests in changes of numbers associated with addresses. It is mind blowing how you crypto people talk about some magical asset but you see with your own eyes that it doesn't exist.

You're skirting around the problem that your framework is inconsistent and that by your very definition stocks like VISA or PayPal would fail to be assets beyond the physical buildings they inhabit.

Visa an PayPay balances are assets because they represent fiat money. Log updates that you Bitcoin holders make represent nothing. So your comparation failed.

What is crazy here is how many nonsensical excuses are you crypto people capable to come up with just not to admit what you see with your own eyes.

I'm not talking about Visa's and PayPal's balances though. Those belong to their customers, not the companies or their shareholders. Where does the value of these companies come from, within your framework?

You made a fine argument about what determines things we can call assets. However, I have some objections. Firstly, if we're to agree that your definition of assets holds, there a lot of cryptocurrencies today will pass the test because there are hundreds of tokens if not more that incentivizes their users to hold. For example, Binance token would easily pass for an asset because aside from just benefitting from price movements, there's opportunity to earn yield. Even better, they buy back tokens from open market and burn it.

There are other examples but I'd just like to end it here before it gets lengthy. My point? Most cryptos qualify as assets even by your definition above.

I had a feeling this will turn by the end into a 'Bitcoin is a Ponzi Scheme' sort of Thread, so I skipped straight to the end and I was not surprised by the ending at all

With Bitcoin, owners can benefit from its speculated Price and can transfer their Assets to other people with no restrictions.  Along MANY other advantages.  What is your point?

Welcome to the Digital Currencies.  Of course a Digital Asset does not have any backing resource.  Bitcoin IS the resource.

Come on.  You are trying to get us into the idea through this 'Bitcoin is an Activity Log' thing and then manipulating us into thinking this means Bitcoin is a Scam.  How in the World did you get from one to the other.  Yes, the Bitcoin Blockchain is a LEDGER.

Have you ever heard of Demand?  Scarcity?  Deflationary Assets?  Maybe you also heard the combination of these three means the value of the Asset is going to increase significantly?

Comparing the '+1/-1' of today to the '+1/-1' of over a decade ago lacks all possible sense.  Let me give you an example so you understand why it is a ridiculous comparison.

A few hours ago in my country, one person sold another a $100,000 house.  In the records of the Government, this was recorded as an increment of 1 to the number associated with the first person's amount of owned properties and a decrement of 1 to the number associated with the second person's amount of owned properties.  Five years ago, people gave each other $50,000 for the same house.

Does this mean houses are not real?  Real inflation or not, this is how the Economy works.  So maybe you just need to read up on how the Economy works to understand why Bitcoin has such a high value right now.

By the way.  I do get such a strong feeling that I read almost exactly the same idea a long time ago over here.  Definitely not written by your Username though.  Do you have other Bitcoin Talk accounts by any chance?

Paul Krugman the Noble Laureate economist said the same thing about the internet in 1998,
that the internet would never have any meaningful impact on the economy.

Most people thought the automobile would never replace the horse and buggy, light bulbs would never replace kerosene lamps,
mass airline travel could never exist, the internet would have no significant impact on the economy, etc.

What many seem to be afflicted with is a failure of imagination and are dead set in their conventional way of thinking.
I would say people in general have a hard time grasping the huge impacts of major technological changes and are in denial about it
until it cannot be denied anymore.

The fact is most people are closed-minded luddites who abhor change and don't want the boat to be rocked.

Does anyone bother checking the trust / feedback of people before replying to their posts.
The OP in the words of nutildah


And lets not forget

Just ignore them and move on.
Or add your own negative trust and move on.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=3557311

-Dave

I always hate replying threads like this but can't help it
No matter what's been said its not going change the poster view.
Their view been unchangeable mean nothing to me but sharing it with lack of concrete proof can create FUD for newbies.




To your post I just quoted.
An asset is something that's useful and valuable.
Since you can't agree with our view
I'm gonna use your on words

In your word This right here it's a use
And I think it's price shows if it is valuable or not cause if it wasn't we should be seeing $0.

I thought there was a Penalty to ban evasion, why is the OP is active?

Activity logs are actually quite useful. Social media are also nothing more than "activity logs", logging interactions between users (in the form of posts, videos, images ...) but they have a value for the people who post there. So much value that people are trading Meta shares to a similar price than Bitcoin.

With Bitcoin it's quite similar: It's an activity log but logging financial interactions, like buying and selling goods. The catch is of course: With Bitcoin you can do this with advantages you don't have with other "activity logs" like Visa which was already mentioned, like censorship resistance, independence from intermediaries, and global reach (at least to every place on Earth where there's internet access, and with satellites the spots where this is not the case are less every month ...).

Also the "business model" is similar. Meta shares enable you to profit from advertising, which is one of the use case of the activity log. Bitcoin "shares" allow you to profit from the advantages the Bitcoin network offers, for example buying and selling goods without intermediaries and censorship.

I wonder what's the next analogy the OP will bring up: Empty paper? A CD? ;)

---

I originally posted on this thread yesterday in a similar vein, but then deleted the post to respect the desire of some people to not feed the OP (see his trust network etc.). However, as I see that he's alredy been fed :) I re-post my opinion. I think we all know what the OP's intentions are, so that's not the point here. The idea is to see why some analogies work and some do not.

I am deeply in doubt with you that bitcoin is not an asset Op and there is no fun to play around with bitcoin because it is a digital value that is worth treasured.

If I may ask, are you a bitcoin users/Investor or trader or do you transact with bitcoin in any any? If yes, what is your benefit for it? If no, why are your goals before coming to the forum as titled "bitcointalk" which primary reasons why we are all here is to learn and grow our knowledges about bitcoin with the hint or awareness that it is a lucrative digital currency that is alternatively used for payments.

If you have not found a testifier about the asset values or bitcoin, then you can count on me because I am benefits much a lot on my investment in this bitcoin sector.

firstly comparing it to stocks/shares you need to realise their is a ownership registry of said certified ownership rights which is separate to the market trade orderbook of the wall street marketplace of said stocks/shares..
much like crypto has CEX's orderbooks separate to the blockchain ledger

the shares registry is not the determination of a dividend value, share value, or ask/bid price for individuals purchase/sell. the market place handles the individual pricings and corporate policy and chairmen decisions are the deciding factor of things like dividends. which is separate to the share ownership registry of the transfers/transactional proof of ownership change

also blockchains DO show transfers/transactions of ownership change as they have the UTXO which shows previous ownership address and then it shows the destination address of where the amount ends up

again for emphasis
your shares portfolio/market dashboard that shows unit held and fiat value of holdings is a separate records database compared to the corporations share ownership ledger.. and neither of those records/ledgers are the deciding factor of dividends

please try to learn more about not only the economics of blockchain currency assets but also the economics of any asset, as it appears you lack knowledge of alot of things

I love it when some guy suddenly finds inspiration and sees what nobody before has seen, unfortunately in most cases, just like in this one he has seen things that aren't actually there.


Since cutting down your theory to a simpler version.
Since transfers on the blockchain don't represent a transfer of assets it means you can transfer all your coins to my address and then magically you can still use your coins or buy something with them while at the same time, I will not be able to realize a greater benefit how you say from receiving those coins. Now, do you realize how dumb this is?

Moreover, based on your same there, what happens when such a "numeric update" invoces someone receiving fiat for it, since fiat transfer is always an action of receiving further benefit how could it not be a benefit in getting coins? You've just described a paradox of turning value into the void by getting value from the void.

Now normally I would ask you to send your coins to my address since this is not a transfer of value but I have a feeling you don't have one satoshi.

Value of every company comes from equity and businesses activity. Equity can be liquidated. Business activity produces profit.

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You people live in such a fantasy world this is hilarious. There are no coins. Nothing is transferred. Only log exists that is updated via "wallet"  apps which manifests as a change of numbers associated with digital addresses. That's reality. Everything else is the product of imagination.

---

No they don't qualify. Name one popular cryptocurrency where holders can get anything from the system that issues it, except the ability to update the log via their wallet apps.

I remember that OP has several forum threads about "crypto being a glorified spreadsheet" or "crypto being a bunch of records on servers".
I don't mind people hating on Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general. Criticism should be welcomed in the crypto community.
What I don't understand is why OP is repeating the same thing over and over again. This is a Bitcoin/cryptocurrency forum. Does he think that such forum posts will discourage other forum members into investing in crypto? OK, cryptocurrencies aren't stocks or bonds. So what? If the people want to invest in crypto, let them invest. If the whole crypto industry becomes into a giant bubble and it bursts, the people will lose their money, but that's capitalism. You have to take risks in order to make profits.

My only motivation is truth. People repeatedly spread lies by portraying this whole crypto thing as some revolutionary asset, new form of money, valuable investing, etc. But it's all just a giant pyramid scheme that is being tracked by updating a decentralized log. So, as long as people will spread lies I will continue to post the truth. Either through analogies or by literally describing what is going on, like in this topic. As you can see it's not about hating Bitcoin, as you crypo people like to say. Why would anyone hate a log?  Or the activity of updating it? It is lies what people hate.

its not a pyramid scheme for two reasons
1. by holding X amount of sats on a address you control and thus own, it does not involve you getting subsequent commission from recruiting people who buy coin below you EG you dont get y% of other peoples sales

2. there is no hierarchy of coin owners whom rank different commission depending on rank

as for is bitcoin a asset:
it is an asset as it is not based on debt(liability vs asset), it is an asset because it has limited supply, it is an asset because it has function, and thus demand and desire
the point of having addresses that follow rules of transfer control based on a secret key used to sign the transfer means there is ownership proof that only the secret key owner can sign for. so its not just a unit of measure database, its a ledger of proof of ownership

jamesNZ still does not understand how crypto currencies work as he just thinks its a database of numbers. he does not understand the concepts that the ledger includes the transfer and ownership proofs

There are various pyramid schemes. But what they all have in common is that you give an asset to someone without they giving you any asset in return. And then you wait for other people to join that scheme and give you some asset otherwise you cannot get an asset back. An asset is of course a resource from which you can benefit. You crypto holders own no such resource. All you own is the ability to update that decentralized log. When you give a car or a hundred thousand dollars to someone, that's giving an asset and getting no asset in return. What you get in return is the ability to change numbers (like +2/-2) via updating that log with your wallet apps.

So it's a modern day pyramid scheme.

you have no clue
thats not even how pyramid schemes work

when you transfer a car there is a car registration database of ownership.. crypto has this too, learn more about it. its not just a log of licence plates on the car registry.. its not just a log of numbers in crypto

Yes sure. Crypto has a record that you own the ability to change numbers associated with digital addresses. While a person to whom you transferred an asset (the car) has a resource that can provide them benefit, such as moving people and goods from one place to another.

I can invent a Trading Card game called Sausages.  It does not mean we are trading edible sausages.  Bitcoins are called 'Coins' simply because you only need 10 IQ points to understand there is no need for an entire new language written for things that can simply be terms we already understand.  Everybody knows what Coins are.  Things you can move around and pay with.  Now go back to the Card Game I told you about.  Who the fuck would know what I am on about if I tell them I have three sausages to trade.

I find it baffling that you believe we all believe these are some sort of physical, real Coins we are moving around.  Of course they do not exist, they are digital.  But again, it takes a little bit of IQ to understand that.  And you do not seem to be among those who do.

Sure, everyone knows that coins are tangible discs that can be moved around. That's precisely why I'm saying you're living in a fantasy world. You're using apps to change numbers associated with digital addresses, but claiming to move around something. That's a denial of reality, an escape into fantasy, and living in a dream world. I simply can't understand what's wrong with you crypto people.

In traditional banking systems, you are also using some bank's app "to change numbers associated with digital addresses". And they are also "claiming to move around something". And it works, until it doesn't, and suddenly, there is a need of "second bailout for banks". That's why Bitcoin was invented: we don't need "bailouts", because coins are simply worth more or less, depending on the outside world.

No, because people are paid, based on the number of posts they write. So, by writing an obvious reply, that "2+2=4", you can fill your quota easier on such topics.

In traditional banking systems you are using bank apps to change the ownership of an asset, with numbers representing its quantity. In the cryptocurrency systems you're updating logs of pyramid-style schemes by changing numbers. There's no asset involved. Thinking that an activity log of a pyramid scheme is an alternative to an asset is craziness of a high order.

You seem to be confused BANKS are the pyramid scheme.

Banks can and frequently do use fractional reserve banking: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fractionalreservebanking.asp
You can't do that with crypto, you can't send or use what you don't have.

If you hate crypto so much, why don't you leave? Or is this the only joy you get while being a troll living in your moms basement.

-Dave

Do you have anything about the topic at hand?

I have a little advise for you here, don't hypnotize others with wrong perception, idea or fake theories that doesn't exist at all, why cant a crypto coin like bitcoin be an asset, its better you understand that its a digital currency and also have the ability to serve multipurpose benefits, as such we can found with using it as a digital currency, an investment asset and a profitable one indeed, if you invest and hold and earl from it with time, aren't you profitable with crypto?.

It's the other way around. People are hypnotized with all the lies and misinformation about crypto that are constantly spread through meanstream media and social networks. They are also hypnotized with big payments into the pyramid schemes. What I am doing here is the awakening - I am trying to get people out of hypnosis.

I admit that you are constructive as ever and perhaps creative as well but your perspective on cryptocurrency has always been the same and you are wrong. Maybe you do not know the definition of an asset, and I implore you to conduct a common research on it. Your writeup proves a point and you are trying to get some facts to downgrade the "virtuality" of Bitcoin and altcoins but this will not stop the truth that they are assets. Some are now calcified by the US government as Security and Commodity, this can only mean that they derive that from their purpose and utility, therefore they are assets by law.

Again, you call cryptocurrencies a non-asset but they are already in the mainstream of the financial market, many big companies and even countries now have some shares in cryptocurrencies and it is being used daily for deposits, withdrawals, loans and repayment, name it. If you can say cryptocurrency is not an asset, then Fiat is not an asset, which is not true. You may buy a car today and opt to pay in cryptocurrency, if it doesn't have a value, will the deal be possible? Stop downgrading an asset due to the fact that it is virtual, so far people value it and people's liquidity empowers it, it is an asset.

I have a simple advice: read the the opening post again and try to actually address the argument presented in it. You're literally ignoring everything that is said and just make statements opposite to the conclusions of the argument. A law, for instance, is just a declaration made by the politicians. That declaration cannot change the fact that within cryptocurrency systems there are no resources that can provide benefit to cryptocurrency owners. If the politicians declared cryptocurrencies an asset that just means politicians are stupid. But I know that we live in times where people worship the authorities and think that everything declared by them is automatically a fact. So, you are free to believe what the authorities tell you, but that's not an argument.

Lolz, don't read and believe things that makes makes no sense, op is a well known bitcoin and cryptocurrency hater, if you doubt, go through his post history and find out, I've come across a couple of this posts on this board and they've all been centered around discrediting bitcoin and cryptocurrencies at large from what they are and represent in our current society.
Many still cant just comprehend the fact that things are changing and so is money as well, they wish things to remain as they have always been in the past but unfortunately, it's not In their power or hands to decide.

You have to realize that it is people that gives something value, whatever the majority people see as valuable become valuable, and what ever value they attach to it, it become, the paper you and I spend as money today, who gave it value? It's the people.
If majority of the worlds population decide tomorrow that paper money is no longer valuable, and we all turn our backs to it, even the central banks can't do anything other than try to convince the people.

You repeat the same nonsense I already addressed.

Value


Hate

I do not know how to put it, but if we remove anything that happen behind those activity logs, then all things is an activity log.  Same goes with the history I guess, the medical records, the bank transaction records, the employee records, and everything that people do and put on records... they are all just an activity log, that is as I stated, if we remove the thing that happened behind that activity log.

Why are you still here then?  Maybe we are all mentally ill, who knows.  Just let us be.  This seems to be like yet somebody else who has a problem with us and it is funny considering we do not have a problem with the people using Fiat but with Fiat itself.

It is always funny to me.  We have a problem with the traditional Banking and Fiat system.  People like OP who hate Cryptocurrencies typically hate us more than they hate Cryptocurrencies.

Anyway.  This is a BITCOIN Forum.  Of course your chances of making us believe Bitcoin is a 'fantasy world' are zero.  Try going to the Science sub forum on Reddit and convince them that Science is a myth.  You may convince those who know nothing about Science, but not them who do research.  Good luck.

There's a difference between a transaction record and an activity log. In the first you have an asset that is being transferred between people and you write down quantities of that asset. In the second you just write down events that occur. In crypto, these events are changing numbers with wallet applications.

Bitcoin is not a fantasy. It is a log and a set of protocols that connect computers to store that log.

What is a fantasy is the belief that you are transferring a valuable and scarce asset when you update that log via wallet apps. Assets are what have value and scarcity. If there is no asset involved, there is nothing to be valuable or scarce.

That which you people call "Bitcoin scarcity" is nothing but a simple mathematical function that sets the maximum sum of numbers associated with digital addresses to 21 million.

I'm more concerned about how you say fiat currencies are assets, but bitcoin is not. Then you went ahead to say the only thing that makes fiat an asset is through debt. Meaning fiat won't be an asset if you don't give out a loan and earn a profit from it. Did you think it through?
There was a time when my local currency was gaining on the dollar and I speculated that based on future events which are to come, the dollar would gain massively against my local currency. I bought a lot of dollars at a cheaper rate and held for a long time (close to a year) and just like I predicted the dollar gained massively against my local currency and I sold the dollar and made a profit out of it. While I held on to that dollar, it was an asset. I didn't need to give out a loan and receive interest for it to be an asset. I made a profit simply by holding on to it and selling it at a price much higher than I bought it. This is also what makes fiat currency assets.

It's the same thing with Bitcoin, You can decide to hold it for a long time and sell it at a profit. How can you say something that you can buy at $100 and sell at $200 in a year is not an asset?
If you really believe that then you're saying shares are not assets because if you don't sell your share at a profit you won't make any money from it.

Don't bother, this person is immune to any sort of logic & you're wasting time trying to appeal to their sensibilities. They are on a one-man mission to fud bitcoin until they get banned again. They don't even have any sort of rebuttal, they just continue to repeat their initial claims ad nauseum.

The idea that cryptocurrencies, like Bitcoin, don’t offer tangible benefits like stocks or real estate misses an important point: value in any system is subjective and driven by what people are willing to exchange. Cryptocurrencies do offer a benefit, it’s just different. It gives way to the possibility of a financial system that is decentralized and within which individuals can transact without having to involve banks or governments. Bitcoin has already seen use in countries with unstable fiat currencies or high levels of inflation as a store of value, much like gold.

The argumentation about blockchain being no more than a record log and not an asset altogether, presumes that none of the conventional assets are very much derivatives of trust and mutual agreement. When one thinks of a dollar bill, its value is no longer pegged to a measure of gold but rather to the collective agreement in belief regarding its purchasing power. But again, it would be the case of Bitcoin deriving value from people having agreed on its use for transactional exchanges, which indeed is very much in practice across the globe. Besides, Bitcoin has a fixed supply and is completely decentralized, making it more resistant to inflation than any fiat currencies, which central banks can print indefinitely.

Comparison to pyramid schemes seems enticing, but it doesn't fit. In a pyramid scheme, it is essential to have newly joining participants for the sustainability of the scheme. That is not how Bitcoin works, given it doesn't rely on new buyers at all times. Its open network accommodate participation from anyone, and its operating rules are fixed instead of recruitment drives or promised returns.

If you have an open mind towards cryptocurrencies, you will better appreciate it as an asset. First, an asset is anything of value that is also capable of generating more returns. Most cryptocurrencies (like Bitcoin) fit perfectly into this definition above. People are acquiring cryptocurrencies because it has the potential of generating more revenue/returns just like every other assets. Cryptocurrencies can be measured in monetary terms, it is tradable and ownership of it can be transferred from one person to the other just as you rightly stated.  

Again, assets are subject to appreciation and depreciation and cryptocurrencies have these features to be qualified as assets. So if after comparing these characteristics of assets with cryptocurrencies and you still think cryptocurrencies are not qualified to be referred to as assets, you should then use it the way you feel it should be used or you ignore it totally.