Bitcoin Forum

We often heard about market manipulation in crypto market. It can be true for small cap, or coin that issue by exchange or for the token where most of that token hold by team. But we also heard it about Bitcoin and etherum, when price fluctuate in large scale. I don't understand how these large cap coin can be manipulate, when these coin are well distributed and decentralized?

People have been saying certain stocks have been manipulated for years. Whether its true or not is hard to prove.

Just today people are accusing Coinbase for providing IOUs instead of buying actual BTC to fund the BTC ETFs. Again whether this is true or not is hard to prove. People think that since the flows are positive for BTC it should be at $100K by now but its not, so they think there is some manipulation going on.

Whether the market is small or big, it wont take a big player to manipulate a certain crypto or stock anyway they want. 

tbh, people with biased views who just recently hit cut lose or SL will have biased stance that the market is manipulated but is it though? sometime differentiating manipulated market and the genuine one is difficult, after all if manipulation is so obvious then it's problematic but I don't believe market of BTC is manipulated with such large market cap.

if it's those altcoins with micro cap then yes, so many manipulation actually going on, sometime when a coin about to unlock vested token and ready to dilute the market, some project just artificially pump the price to lift the worth of their vested tokens.

but this manipulation more obvious in meme coin category though literally those guys are manipulating the market and it's as clear as day.

Some people still believe that news can be used to manipulate the market. Example is if the United States SEC X account that was compromised could have been actually done by someone intentionally. The aim of the person could be to manipulate the crypto market. But aside that, I do not know how bitcoin price can be manipulated because having a marketcap of over $1 trillion is not a joke. Manipulation is almost impossible unlike on low marketcap coins.

Bitcoin, despite of being decentralized, still susceptible to market manipulation most particularly for those big scale holders who are actually aiming to influence the price for the sake of their personal gains and interest. That’s why if these big players sell off their coins, btc price eventually drop its price, thus giving them chances to buy back again at an affordable value. That’s how they play with the market well.

However, wit ethereum, it’s more sensitive to how the market behaves. And its price could easily changed and affected through its market demand and supply dynamics.

Bitcoin's capitalization is over $1 trillion but the daily trading volume recorded by CMC is only $30 billion, which is not a big number when it comes to financial markets. Bitcoin capitalization is 1 trillion but do you remember just with news like the German government selling 2 billion or Mt.gox paying 9 billion? and if we compare with market capitalization then obviously 2 billion or 9 billion is nothing but they still cause some panic in the market.

It can be said that the market is not only manipulated by people with a lot of money but also easily manipulated by news and market makers will take full advantage of that.

In my opinion, every financial market can be manipulated and depending on the market there will be different levels, including the stock market.

Decentralization and manipulation are not connected properties. A coin can be decentralized that means its supply is not controlled by a specific body, but rather distributed. It does not mean that a certain whale cannot buy them in small volumes over time to amass a large volume and then dump it on the market one day.

Distributed does not mean not manipulated, it may or may not be so.

However having observed the markets for some years I dont think this has been real in bitcoin unlike what happens in stocks. Bitcoin drops happen when bad news like hacks, bans and so happen and it starts going upwards often for public acknowledgement and exchange openings.

It is not something we long term traders need to worry about.

What I also know is that it can affect the market, but it does not have the ability to manipulate the market; that is my understanding of that matter. Though what I know that has the ability to manipulate the market are the giant investors, such as Blackrock, Grayscale, and others.

Because these people, when they sell a large amount of bitcoin, there will definitely be a fall in the value of BTC, and when they also buy a large amount of bitcoin, they will somehow move its price up, especially if the other big whale investors are in these situations.

1.Decentralization has nothing to do with how a volatile financial asset performs on the market. Decentralization means no centralized entity having full control over the blockchain.
2."Distribution" is a weird term, and it cannot be applied to the financial markets. There will always be crypto whales, who are holding way more BTC/altcoins than the "average Joe". Many governments are also holding lots of seized coins. A perfect distribution of coins among all people is impossible.
Every market can be manipulated more or less. Some "crypto whale" selling his BTC might create a FUD effect a drive the prices down.
Some big company might start buying BTC and create a hype/FOMO phase on the market. Isn't this manipulation?

I just believe that market manipulation can only be done on low-cap tokens. While for Bitcoin, it might be very difficult to do. What happens is news that can be FOMO in the community. You must have seen news related to large transactions or large asset transfers detected from wallets to exchanges or vice versa. Such events might move the minds of coin holders which can create an effect like a manipulated market.

Market manipulation is true and it can be small capitalization coin or large capitalization, if in small cap coins team holding maximum of coins so team can manipulate in price but in big cap coin like Bitcoin and Ethereum there a lot of big whales who's holding billions dollar worth of coins like microstrategy holding 10 billions $ worth of Bitcoin, so they can of course manipulate in Bitcoin in any time.

It was easier with smaller marketcap and smaller interest, but i am certain that it happens these days as well, and it's with most altcoins it's way easier then with real stocks, like GMA when shorters just got endless pockets of loan money. Making money from short squeeze worked for a while but eventually these huge players just get more and more help from their rich friends.

And it's never a one man effort to manipulate the market. It can be group of whales shorting with leverage or by owning huge portion of the coins.

When we see that large amounts of coins or stablecoins are being transferred to the exchange, we can conclude which way the market will move in the near future. And when these large wallets start selling or buying Bitcoin, other market participants join them, which eventually leads to a pump or dump.

Market manipulation is difficult to prove, we often hear news about this where some whales move in the market to dump.
Is that certain? Of course not, but there is still a little faith that the market can still be manipulated by some of the big whales.

Some time ago when ... a well-known article published that the bitcoin ETF was approved but in reality it was not, bitcoin skyrocketed but on the other hand the article was caught with the same name doing “LONG” to achieve huge profits from its futures trading, obviously this is like a manipulation made by their media articles.

So, you are wondering why crypto market manipulation often occurs, while Bitcoin or crypto is often mentioned as the basis of decentralization which cannot be boxed in and cannot be interfered with by third parties, isn't that right?

You need to know that even though Bitcoin is decentralized, in terms of behavior, manipulation often occurs, especially when crypto assets are used in trading methods, for that you need Spotting the 5 Common Crypto Price Manipulation Patterns. (https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/common-crypto-manipulation-techniques-nitin-kumar-), in the market for you, to better understand the manipulation that occurs, even though crypto is decentralized.

A little explanation of why this could happen.
For example:

If you understand the quote above, it clearly states how the crypto market manipulation process occurs, in essence the manipulation activity is illegal, even though it is illegal, it still occurs even though the crypto is Decentralized.

Are you forgetting that most of the coins are being traded on exchanges and many individuals are storing their coins on exchange therefore the exchange has free will to many coins that they can use to manipulation the price of any coin. Exchange can stop the withdrawal and deposit of coins on their exchange therefore limiting or increasing numbers of coins being traded. There could be direct manipulation by the exchange by interfering with the orders and either cause a pump or dump situations. Exchanges has the power to control which coins get noticed or unnoticed therefore alot of manipulation are going on with exchanges and they're going unnoticed.

This is the form of market manipulation, first they make movements like real, experienced an unfair increase and make the people of Fomo to the token, also sometimes there is cooperation with certain DAOs for FOMO schemes on social media to be more interesting for others to buy tokens The project, after that they threw away the goods they had and the last person sold eventually became a market manipulation scheme, more familiarly I called it a pump to dump scheme.
This often occurs in shitcoin with small marketcap.

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And from these tokens, it is minus more than 90%.

It's every where.

It is true for all markets, and for Bitcoin or altcoins, big cap or small cap.

You will realize it easily by thinking of market cap of cryptocurrency market and market cap of stocks market. If you realize that stocks market can be manipulated, you will easily see that why Bitcoin and cryptocurrency market can be manipulated too.

Then you will realize that why cryptocurrencies with either small, medium or big market cap, all can be manipulated.

Yes it is.. that's why we have inducement or PO3

This one argument that has long been going on ,but this something that I believe is real,  else there wouldn't be something called liquidity
too. When they say market manipulation, it involves liquidity the money that moves the market, so if you're a smart money trader or investor, you literally can move market to any direction of your choice, provided there are funds or required liquidity to do so..

Yes market manipulation is real. its like when some billion dollar party says they are buying crypto before they actually buy it, is most likely to spread the word out to create hype, and when the hype slows, the price dumps a little more than it was before, and they buy at that time. I mean, big organizations have their own way of buying BTC even if they are doing OTC, they get better rates plus such manipulative techniques to create hype.

Currently, everyone is buying BTC (if) in the hope that Donald will be elected as the president, then the market will boom, but what if it doesn't happen, the hype only will move the price up and the buyers (smart ones) will already be out of the market when the elections will be near because anything can happen in elections what if Donald failed.

I once created a thread about is Pump and Dump is real in BTC (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5446064.msg61963283#msg61963283) you can read that for more ideas.

I agree with you; exchanges also can manipulate a coin, especially i see in the major exchanges they holding 30%-50% coins from total circulating supply, so if they will start to sell their coins, no one can stop them but reputed exchange will never do that. Most of the time manipulation is happen by individual who holding a significant amount of tokens, team's can do that.

Market manipulation can be done by big players on listed coins and tokens but it seems difficult to manipulate Bitcoin.
Bitcoin as the coin with the highest market cap with a limited amount makes it a coin that is very difficult to manipulate the market even though there are rumors that Bitcoin can also be manipulated.
If there is a big company that has a lot of Bitcoin, it has the potential to change the market price, it is still understandable. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Obviously it's real, less so in bitcoin because it requires billions to manipulate it or a lot of news but that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen at all, it happens but a lot less, whereas with smaller coins and tokens we see manipulation almost every single day in something, today it could be X coin and tomorrow it could be Y token but we are seeing them doing something like that and we should not be worried about it at all. It's definitely a great situation and we can definitely see this as profitable if we are on the right side.

Manipulation is something we can't avoid because it's a free market and there aren't really any type of regulations that stops manipulation, you can do even insider trading and nothing that could be done very easily without a trouble. Governments will not end up making any changes or punish anyone if they do any regulation at all.

That is true. Fundamental is a good way to manipulate the market for high cap coins like bitcoin. They try to create anxiety and panic with the news, thereby making weakers hands to sell off. For small capital coins or let's say shitcoins, it is not difficult to do by the whales but for decentralized coins, they go by the news created by the media.

Just for instance, the media has accumulated much news towards the November US election and this will be very good tool for manipulating the cryptocurrency market and bitcoin the mother coin.

Actually the market manipulation happens with the Bitcoin and ETH as well. But when it happens in large scale, the whole crypto market get affected. I don't remember the date, But we had such manipulation a couple of months ago before the ETF approval of Bitcoin. I am sure you are aware about Bitcoinmagazine.com which is also a leading crypto news website. Before the ETF approval, they did a huge manipulation by spreading fake news about Bitcoin ETF approval and they made millions of dollars. At first, they opened a long position on Rollbit and tweeted saying the SEC approved Bitcoin ETF. Bitcoin pumped from 27K to 30K or something like that. But later, they said it was a mistake which means the news is not true. But they closed the position before they tweet again with an apology for spreading the fake news.

Market manipulation is already that evident or something that do really happens even if we do speak about on to those traditional markets that we do know. Somehow this crypto space
isnt really that something that they could really be able to control on just because of that having that decentralized aspect on where supply is really that scattered into investors who do support and invest on it.
Somehow as the years passing by on which government involvement had become that evident with those ETF's and other institution which are trying out to accumulate as much as they could
then its not surprising that they would be making up those kind of possible manipulations in regarding on playing with those news or simply fundamentals.

Manipulation is real but they wouldnt really be doing it on obvious manner. Of course they would really be such on big trouble if they would really be doing it.
Tons of eyes would really be that too highly reactive if they would be able to see something that involves about obvious manipulation.

Pretty sure a majority of the memecoins that are out there are examples of manipulated markets? Ofc it's harder to see on bigger and well known markets like Bitcoin and other big alts, but it's pretty obvious at times in some shitcoins that we see. Even in the Bitcoin market, I reckon there's some manipulation happening there but probably a lot smaller in terms of scale, and probably reduced in both impact and duration.

And also, it wouldn't really be an effective manipulation if people can easily see it like that, especially in big markets lol. It also doesn't even need to be direct to the prices, just touching on FOMO and the like would be enough imo to say that someone is swaying the market already.

To second this I will give example of when a coin is been manipulated by exchange first example is this exchanges can announce promotion for holders of such coins and this actually prompt even those who are not on the platform to hold on to their tokens just because they feel it is bullish sign, another example of exchanges manipulating coins is by announcing the delisting of this tokens on their exchanges and this devalue the token even on other exchanges, if you’re even a day trader you will simply just short at this period. Also we all know of the binance impact too, once they announce they are listing the token it create bullish market for the token or coin, although this are mostly associated with low cap coins/tokens.

Large Market cap tokens like bitcoin are usually manipulated not directly but by shaking up the narrative of its investors and this is through fundamental news like economical news; a report of any downturn looming will simply create a bearish narrative, a news of big whales like Microstrategy and the recent ETFs will also create bearish sentiment also the opposite of each of them will create bullish momentum. But one thing is that this narrative only affects the market for a short term and that’s why it is usually said that bitcoin is hardly manipulated

Market manipulation is really unavoidable, it has always been a game played by the Whales with the massive transactions they make.
By utilizing the large capital they use, the movement of their money alone will affect the fundamentals of the crypto market, because every movement of whales will be detected by the Bot, and it will be an indication of whether to dump or pump, the market will be very volatile with the movement of whales.

Not only whales, market manipulation is also caused by the derivatives market and the market sentiment that occurs.
some media outlets that provide news about Bitcoin or big influencers who are trying to influence the price of bitcoin, such as when Elon Musk mentioned bitcoin and planned to use it as payment for Tesla etc., but it was only a temporary effect that then the market would find its way back.

Although the market capitalization of Bitcoin and Ethereum is huge, it will not guarantee it will be free from manipulation, there will always be manipulation that is trying to influence the price of the crypto market.

Price manipulation in this market has always been a reality, although this fact is very sad

SEC wins $2.8M in suit over alleged crypto token price manipulation (https://cointelegraph.com/news/sec-wins-2-8m-in-suit-over-alleged-crypto-token-price-manipulation)

US Court of Appeals reboots HEX manipulation case against Binance.US (https://cointelegraph.com/news/us-appeals-court-reboots-manipulation-case-binance-us)

CFTC case against Digitex futures exchange and CEO results in $16M court order (https://cointelegraph.com/news/cftc-digitex-futures-exchange-16m-court-order)

5 charged by DOJ over alleged crypto price manipulation scheme
 (https://cointelegraph.com/news/5-charged-by-doj-over-alleged-crypto-price-manipulation-scheme)

In the past, it was more common for bad news to be spread so that the price would drop a lot and people would buy. When it was realized that the news was not true, the price would go back up, so this is a form of market manipulation. This has happened a lot in altcoins to this day. Altcoin creators stay on the old Twitter posting positive news so that the price of the altcoin would go up a lot. Some people usually have early access to the news and buy a lot, and unfortunately those who buy late are the ones who end up with losses. This is also a form of market manipulation.

Market manipulation is real but I don't want to completely look at it from the negative perspective. There's a positive to it and that's to recreate wealth and help on its redistribution. For those who do that, I guess it's for the sole reason of taking profit but it often leads to a dump because of the panic mindset of paperhands. If anyone has ever hedl a large number of tokens, I challenge them to monitor how the market reacts in price when they sell. Sometimes one may not want to do it (sell off) but for the fun of it, one may try such an experiment. It's the same way I feel whales or those who hodl large quantity also do it a sport. It feels really cool realizing that the market reacts to such move. Nothing stops anyone utilizing an opportunity they know too well to re-enter the market and make more out of it. It becomes a problem when it's done criminally.

I agree that large coins are well established in terms of distribution and long sustaining but you need to remember that all the coin that are existing within bitcoin or ethereum network is not participating on the market trading which mean only 1% or 2% of the coins are being traded and due to this fact, there are lot of possibilities for the market to be manipulated into the direction the whales prefer. One whale may neutralize the another one but when two or more whales are deciding to take the market into their own preferred direction then we can witness manipulation even in large markets.

Only the marketcap is one trillion and not the volume of open orders. It means if whales or exchange people decide about $100 or $1000 movement for their benefits, then they can like what all they do, is only initiating and then rest of market traders will join them to push further as rest of market believe about shit of direction. Yeah, short term manipulation is always possible regardless marketcap size.

Yeah, 100% true and possible. And, we can be ignorant of such manipulations because those big player can play only for short term like they cannot change a whole bullish year into bearish and vice versa.

I think if it's with the large cap coins, it's about the influence that someone employs through the news. Remember the FUD that's always being said when the market is going turmoil? that's how they are manipulating it and that crashes the market quickly when the news is too impactful to say. Like now, we're having the FED cut rates and haven't seen some movement yet although from yesterday or the other day we've seen some quick increase. But what's next? I'm expecting something negative from the market that shall create a movement through the news that the media will release or whoever is going to have some statement regarding this recent event in the US. If it's about a real manipulation, maybe there is something for the big caps that we don't know because this is what volatility is all about. When it moves a lot, we tend to think that some manipulation are happening if it's against to our plans.

Not sure what you mean though that it will recreate wealth and distribute when when only a few can take advantage of their own manipulation. And once we understand what is going on, it's over for us small players and average joe as the manipulators was able to get away and make profits.

It's very hard to do it or consider as a sport, but maybe it's a gamble for them and they know that it will pay off handsomely. I remember some movements way back 2018 or 2019, when there were reports that 3 whales was able to move a huge amount of Bitcoin simultaneously on a coordinate manipulate ensuring them of millions of profits while the rest of us was not able to ride the waves with this big whales,

Any market can be manipulated, but it's hard for coins with high capitalisation to be manipulated easily, but that does not mean they are above being manipulated; all that just has to be done is that they need a big strategy to pull that manipulation off in order for it to work. A government with high economic power can manipulate the market in a way that we don't expect it indirectly.
 
Let's take, for instance, when the German government moved their bitcoin holdings into exchange wallets. There was a panic that such movement caused in the market, and many people, out of fear, sold out their holdings. During that period before they finished dumping all their holdings, there was a drop in the market. If there were some other parties in play that wanted to acquire large volumes of bitcoin using small amounts, they could always make use of such an opportunity.

I dont think this is what market manipulation is. Market manipulation would of been if they secretly sold or went short bitcoin and then later on they went in public and they said they will dump all those coins. They had those coins for a while, just like FTX, just like MtGox and people knew that eventually they would sell them. Same with US Government, we all know one day they will sell another batch of Bitcoins.

So unless some government official, goes shorts on their own personal account or they leak the news to some trading firm in secret and that firm goes short and then later they make an announcement that they are dumping their bitcoins, then its manipulation. But what they did so far doesn't really count as manipulating the market.

Market manipulation for bitcoin is quite low and limited, unlike ethereum and other pump and dump altcoins, they become highly affected whatever news that affect the market. However, if there are crypto whales who are holding significant amount of bitcoin but then eventually sell or buy massive amount, then definitely bitcoin price will be influenced by it. It’s just that big whales could eventually turn as manipulators that’s why they are using this edge if they want something to happen in the market.

Manipulation of the market is a word that every crypto enthusiast is familiar with and everyone in the crypto space have heard about. Truth be said, manipulation do occur in the market and we have seen the effect it has on the market several times. The manipulation happens more often with low cap tokens and the large ones like bitcoin and ethereum are mostly affected by news which many will also view as manipulating the market. The bitcoin market cap is so big that it can be manipulated by a single entity just like we see in other low cap coins. Asides news, I haven’t seen something that big that will have effect on the bitcoin market on a less broader scale.

Could be real or Could be not? Even if a large institution makes a sell or buy with their asset it's just a small portion of pump and dump that will happen there's some traders will always catch the market price or sell their asset just to make a cut loss, if the number of traders makes a panic buying and selling that's the time the market makes a dump and people seeing there's a manipulation, I guess it happens with the small cap coins but in bitcoin I guess its a really huge bitcoin amount needed.

Unavoidably when whale holders sell of at any point, there's usually an effect on the market and this cuts across all coins and tokens, some persons do mistaken this actions for market manipulation but fail to understand that these holding were mainly because of profit making and other tangible reasons of which when such is accomplished, taking of profit, partially or fully becomes the next line of action,o I literally see that as a normal human reactions to happenings around the market but a typical manipulation happens with tokens that have most of its holdings with a particular circle or the exchange that created them, they could do this for certain reasons, probably to cause better volatility or liquidation of small holder from which they benefit after the inducement of these retail trades I to panic buying or selling, its more common with small tokens and unstable coins, but with Bitcoin I wouldn't call it manipulation because almost nobody has got a monopoly of it as do other coins and tokens.

Market manipulation happens more in altcoins and those with low cap because with small quantity of dollars, you can have an effect on the price of the coins. Before anybody will want to manipulate the price of Bitcoin, they first have to own alot of money and still they can find it hard to want to manipulated the price therefore it is only through rumors, news and fud that they can use to manipulate the price. After the news has had its effects on the market then they can begin to sell If they want the market to fall or buy when they want the market to start rising. Cryptocurrency market is full of manipulation but you can avoid getting affected by not being moved by the news or the market. Just ignore them and continue to keep investing base on your strategy and you will be safe from manipulation.

I think it is not true, no one can prove that it is really manipulated by any group of people company or corps, it is only goes down and pump again because of some investors large or small do buy and selling, that is why there is a movement of the price depending on the volume of selling or buying pressure, i think manipulation is just a theory base on what people think and not on the reality.

Many crypto players still ask questions about what caused the manipulation that has been carried out over the years when market prices rose and fell. This usually happens at times that cannot be determined when the manipulation does not only occur in stablecoins without exception, large coins such as bitcoin and ethereum also have the impact of manipulation. I think you also got the news and are sure that market manipulation occurs in large cryptocurrencies.

Coin manipulation will hardly be possible as coins have low market capacity. Every market can be manipulated depending on market demand, although manipulation is very difficult to prove.

The media plays on everyone's speculation which eventually creates a kind of price manipulation in the market. But once again the context of manipulation can differ in opinion, sometimes we consider it manipulation because it has pressure on the assets owned, therefore as a holder the thing I avoid the most is reacting to information that risks making your grip unbalanced. In any case, information is a weapon that has an important role, in today era you don't need to cause destruction with weapons because with any information it can be manipulated including in the crypto market which relies on speculation that can be obtained by anyone.

Your assumption is not correct. Markets are manipulated and big investors and gamblers can create volatile situations in the market and it has happened in the past and will continue to happen in the future. But they don't do it every time. They conduct their surveys on investors' interest in investments and the attitudes of holders and try to influence the market. They do this for the benefit of a group and try to exploit the market by destabilizing it.

Look, If the government entity gets involved in manipulating the market, that will be a real shame. The size of the ETF market is getting bigger every day and companies like Blackrock can manipulate the market. But if you see the recent case, it wasn't from any of those ETF companies or from the government entity. The manipulation was from the news media which is BitcoinMagazine.

I cannot imagine an online news media to do these manipulations. Luckily, people were able to catch them placing bets on Rollbit. Or else, we would never know it was just a pre-planned thing that they executed. They didn't admit that, but you should understand it. 

Why manipulation is not true? like just imagine if you are a owner of a project and your team is holding 30% coins in total supply, if your team is start selling all of those coins, that will not be highly reflected in the coin price? of course price will be crash, so it's simple thing about market manipulation which is very much true.

I won't disagree to this because I believe it is certainly possible. Market manipulation does exists in stock markets and crypto markets.
We have already seen pump and dumps happening with altcoins and meme coins.
So all we need is enough capital and bitcoin is not exempt from this possibility too.
There are few entities which hold a large amount of bitcoins and if they execute it properly then bitcoin price can certainly be manipulated even though it's hard to tell but it is.

Has any thief just stolen and shouted : "I'm a thief, catch me, catch me" ? Or is there any criminal who kills someone and then admits to being the murderer and publicly announces it to everyone ?  ;D ;D ;D


It is true that we do not have any concrete evidence of market manipulation but that does not mean that the market is not manipulated . Even the stock market with a capitalization of over $100 trillion has been involved in multiple market manipulation scandals , let alone a small market like cryptocurrency .

@rhodelmabanal , I want to ask you: if you had hundreds of billions of dollars, would you invest transparently and make sure not to do anything shady ?  Or will you find ways and connect with others to manipulate the market to ensure your safety and make bigger profits ? Just because we don't see it or don't do it , doesn't mean someone else won't or it won't happen .

distinguishing manipulation or genuine price movement is hard though, can't really determine what really happen if we don't get any real data about who buys and who sell.
thing such as manipulation could definitely happen but I think it's only possible in a coin that has low trading volume since it costs less.

with BTC, it won't happen, even recent microstrategy large buys up of BTC that just happened recently only moved the price of BTC slightly, I don't believe there's any whale that could move the price, BTC recent price also seems natural and purely influenced by the news.

but if we look at CMC there are some low trading volume coin that suddenly got thousand percent of increase, it could just be a large spot buying or the project delivering some outstanding things.

It is true that Bitcoin manipulation is much harder than lower cap coins but that does not mean Bitcoin cannot be manipulated. Just a small movement like 5-10% is enough for whales to make significant profits, they don't need to find ways to manipulate to create 40-50% movements like shitcoin because they are using billions of dollars in bitcoin and 5% of 1 billion dollars is not a small profit.

If bitcoin is not easily manipulated, can you explain why bitcoin is so volatile with just 1 fake news spreading in the market? Remember the news about Mt.gox? Every time there is news that they are going to compensate investors, the market reacts and bitcoin gets dumped immediately and this has been going on for the past 10 years. What is that if not manipulation? A market that is so sensitive to news, even fake news, if that is not manipulation then what is?

I do agree.
With big coins it won't affect them that much, for the reasons you described.
With new and low-cap coins - things can escalate quickly, as they are too volatile.
The manipulation is real, in my opinion, but with a different extent.

This is real problem we all are watching and understanding things are happening around us, but we can't do anything just guesses and images are surrounding us for the years we are reading and listening about this manipulation but no one able to bring any proof about this because we all know it's never been easy or in some cases possible to bring proof about this.

Usually big companies involved in this manipulation but still it's never been easy in few cases we read few governments also done things for their own interest but as we know Bitcoin and crypto are decentralized so how things can manipulate it's also strange, but big community feel about this happening and things are going as these manipulators wants.

You got the right point. a market manipulator will never admits about his/her cheating, but it's not rocket science to understand that market is looks manipulated or not, it's very simple calculation, in a project of course a significant amount of tokens holders from team or big investors, so they have power to manipulate in the market if they just go to sell their all tokens, it's called manipulation, it's absolutely possible, don't need to see other evidence.

It is highly possible for whales to manipulate market but not just any market but those altcoins market. That is why it is good to go for a better coin. Bitcoin is having a marketcap of over a trillion dollar which can be more resistable to market manipulation. But many people will trade altcoins and still be complaining of market manipulation. Then why are they not treading with bitcoin instead of gambling with altcoins.

80% of memecoins Market are heavily manipulated that is just one aspect of market manipulation, because even Bitcoin market can be technically manipulated just that the impact of such manipulation will be very low at a point, but it can be low with memecoins, lately most of the memecoins have fake volume, fake market capitalization and so on, and this have lead to many losing their position due to asap liquidations of market position.

If you see ten opening in a memecoins market, just know that almost 8 out of the ten are just bots and the moment real investors put in money to open a position, the team's start acting with all the bots to get the price to liquidation point and taking off the trader from the market once his position get liquidated, this is another new means of scamming people.

This is true that we cannot actually do anything. Previously, Elon Mask was involved in market manipulation as well which he does not admit though. But everyone should know what he did in the past. At first, he bought a lot of Bitcoin and said his company would start accepting payment in Bitcoin which they did. Later, Bitcoin pumped a lot as the investor got some confidence.

A couple of months later, he started selling his Bitcoin at a better price because Bitcoin was already pumped after his announcement. Then again, he said that his company won't accept Bitcoin payments anymore. He does not support the idea of mining Bitcoin because it wastes electricity while his Tesla cars consume electricity as well. What are we able to do? Nothing.

This is exactly what happens when a team starts selling its tokens, they are joined by other holders who make panic sales, which leads to an even greater price reduction. And when the price reaches the minimum values, the team buys tokens at a reduced price and thereby increases their number in their wallet.

This can only be done by influential people and have high public trust. I don't care about the intended profit target. but the situation has succeeded in influencing the market.

Worse things might be done to new token projects. this market manipulation practice can be done by token holders in large numbers especially if they are part of a project that can move its community. they can make positive news to refresh the community.

We can't blame this, and we can't do anything. All we can do is think logically to stay in our plan.

If its not real there will be no fluctuations, i mean a huge up and down that no one can predict especially on some alternative coins wherein manipulators were so aggressive when they see an opportunity . :D

Peoples those are having good skills and better knowledge about market and it's fundamentals understand all movements and also having good depth about this manipulation so they mostly avoid taking risk while things are never been as they are looking for but mostly newbies are suffered and lost their funds which is sad, but we can't do anything about them with just give them advice to go through into this field with precautious because it's never been easy to stay in crypto world on merit.

Whales are now having good control, and they are doing their tricks which are helping them for increasing their assets and small investors and newbies are losing their hard-earned money just because of these silly tricks which are happening around, but they are not able to understand recently we are having some good movements in few meme coins, but mostly peoples are under trap so they were not able to check and having loses.

It's true that there are some people with a lot of money, and their deep pockets could manipulate the market a bit. This is also true that some media outlets are trying to cooperate with them as well and create news and push it heavily to move it a direction as well.

When you are talking about some crypto news website, a million dollars would be a huge huge money, whereas it's nothing for a whale. They probably pay like 50k a place, and push like lets say bear fear to everyone and people sell, so they buy cheap, and spend another 50k on each place to push bull and price goes up and they sell. Having a lot of money will have some advantages on moving the market, and since we do not have regulations like stock market, manipulation doesn't hurt them that much legally.

It's true that it can be done by some influential people with having high public trust. It’s rare that these people will get involved in market manipulation, but it’s not like market manipulation does not happens. Think about how BitcoinMagazine played with the influence they have. Everyone says it’s just a mistake and they mistakenly published that news. While I would like to believe it was intentional. Because they opened a position on rollbit and take the profit right before they delete their post about ETF approval. I know these cases are rare, but it happens. Even though we cannot do anything, I would still blame those market makers.

We can either blame them or join them, try, at least - Smart money is flowing each second, and it's our opportunity to see the flow and go onto the wave too. However, most of the time, news and actions of theirs would remain unknown to us, thus, we won't be able to utilize the info properly and in time.

Yea, you are very much correct on the point you made, and I also share the same sentiment as you bro, right now, what most investors want to see is the green candle, so they can sell and withdraw profit, but since it's not happening, they will tend to think of conspiracy theory going on, which to me is not true.

Yes it's actually true that their are some big boys that moves the market to the their favor most times, due to how financially capable they are, them pulling out or putting money in the market affect the price  of that asset immediate, but that doesn't falls under market manipulation to me because I believe that those actions by major financial institution are part of the game, so that is why the market moves the way it does, the unpredictable nature.
Though some people might think otherwise, but that's how I sees it.

That is why it is good to go for altcoins that have very high market cap if you want to trade altcoins, while bitcoin still remain the best. I will prefer to only trade bitcoin instead. Altcoins trading is good when the price of the coins have reduced so significantly over a long time period. And I will prefer to hold in such time. Many of the altcoins are easily manipulated and not worth trading frequently with it.

I will assumed that you are newbie to knowledge of trading and things around this place. Have you heard of crypto market makers? They are responsible for creation of liquidity and such people have money to make market to be liquid or dried because they have the money to make the market do their ways. If they want the market to go down, they have the power and if they want to pump the price, they also have the power and this is why even the centralized exchanges works with them hand to hand.

Some of the coins you see that are been listed on exchange and get pump, you think it's the traders that buy them and make it go up? No, it's not. When you check the number of people that are buying and selling, they bought most of the time to create a but pressure so the traders and retailers can dump with causing damage to the price. We have many of them out there and doesn't work with exchanges, they operate independently and can make any coin do their ways, manipulate people into buying and sell when they like. That's how this market works.

I don't doubt that it's actually real. With a lot of bitcoin whales this time who are holding significant amount of bitcoin, if they intend to manipulate the market, they can actually do that. But the effect won't be here too long. Eventually, if it dumped, it will recover again and even make a significant price increase if ever. Most particularly for altcoins as they are known to be pump and dump coins. Some couldn't even recover at all.

As we have observed thru the years, no one can really manipulate the btc market as the money involved is quite huge. This is why, even group of people can't influence the btc market for long-term. We are only left here to speculate and act according to what we have. Financial capability is usually the constraint for most as we have different resources of funds.

If we do not get the info in time, there is no way we can join them. You don't really know what is their next action. Especially in the case like BitcoinMagazine, it happened only in a couple of hours and most of people were not aware of such market movement. For me, I guess I wasn't even online when it happened. When I came back online, I saw what happened. Imagine what happened with the people who had a open short position. A lot of traders loss millions of dollars which was liquidated on exchanges while some others made some money. The most beneficial was BitcoinMagazine themself. They made some instant money just in a couple of minutes/hours.

I do not think that they have the "power" because if person A doesn't make the market and leaves, then person B will make the market and take that profit. Since there is a profit to be made from it, we won't see everyone leaving all at the same time unless there is a huge bear market, this is why I think we are not going to see everyone leaving the market alone like that all that easily, it will not be similar at all.

We are going to see one or the other end up making the market and provide liquidity so that they could make some profit. I have seen this even further at DEX, where people who put money to provide liquidity were rushing as son as others left, so they could make that profit. Manipulation exists of course, just not that way, not too much at least.

I also think like you. Manipulation in the crypto market is real and often occurs because manipulation in the crypto market is often done to influence the price or behavior of crypto assets as a whole and is usually done by whales or a group of people to gain financial gain in a short time.

One way of market manipulation can be seen from repeated trading activities in an instant. So that the repeated buying and selling of cryptocurrencies will indirectly create the illusion of increasing demand. So that after this simulated demand occurs, it can cause a price increase, and of course the goal is to attract investors and not infrequently many beginners are trapped in this market manipulation. Therefore, we must be observant in studying the market, because the crypto market is not only complicated to learn, but also has many unexpected surprises.

Although the bitcoin that we know no one can control, market dynamics will definitely occur and that is commonplace. That's why investing in bitcoin is very suitable for the long term so that market price manipulation will not affect our decision to hold bitcoin.

Since this thread posted in Trading Discussion, so I will talk about trading.

Manipulation not only happen in the market, but it start from so called "trading strategies".

You know the bull and bear sign? like double top mean bearish, three bullish soldiers mean bullish etc.

When they have share this fake trading strategies, they will try to manipulate the market by become the buyer and seller to make that kind sign.

They will draw the chart like double top, people will think it's bearish because they sold all of their coins, but it's actually fake, they bought all of the coins and then coins price rise really high, it contradicts the "trading strategies".

Not only did they not admit what they did, they also tried to arrange everything to happen as naturally as possible so that no one would suspect anything .

The nature of the financial market is nothing more than a giant casino where everyone has only one goal, to make a lot of money and become rich, where our greed is pushed to the maximum . So it is hard to believe that they will keep everything transparent and create a fair playing field for everyone. The game is theirs and they will not be so kind as to spend money to create a playing field where they will likely be the losers . So they will use any trick to get our money because they know if we were in their shoes, we would do the same .

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/09/28/i2y4P.png

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/elon-musk-tesla-cleared-in-258b-dogecoin-class-action-lawsuit/3317490#

Despite being exonerated by the court, but anyone who has experienced the 2021 bull run will understand how blatantly Elon manipulated the market  :D :D :D.

But, I think a media is only like a slave (no offense). I mean they just publish the news but the source doesn't originally came from them, rather it was from the people. Some corrupt media can also get bribes to publish a fake news. So we don't know, what if the manipulation was ordered by some ETF companies or government entities? I'm only wondering on what it has to do with them playing on an online casino? And how are they be able to get caught? I think they won't use their real identity to play gambling. Also anyone can set up any names they like. So, it's possible that the name or the account was only owned by someone else.

Traders should also be a little aggressive when market manipulators become very aggressive in manipulating the price of altcoins in the market. And if traders are not able to be aggressive through certain altcoins, then choose altcoins that cannot be manipulated by these manipulators. Because not all coins can be manipulated in the market so we need to find out that in order not to make a mistake in choosing a coin when we want to trade very safely in certain conditions or moments.