Bitcoin Forum

I would like to address the forum community regarding the following offer. I am working with a team of professionals who are aiming to find an Investor to build and manage bitcoin mining farm, which will be located either in Scandinavia or the USA. Currently, our main task is to find a Main Investor who will join the company by providing funding for the launch of the farm, while we, as a team, fully take on the operational activities. We have experience working on such projects as hired employees, but we desire to make a step forward and enter this project on more equal positions.

We handle all the procedural matters, ensuring the farm's operation. The Main Investor receives 75% of the net profit, while we (the entire team, 4 people) receive 25%. If someone is interested, I will send a project proposal with detailed information.

For almost a year, we have been operating in self-financing mode, without external funding. The preparatory phase, which has taken 9 months so far, has been entirely funded by the project participants. Now we have reached the stage where it is necessary to establish a company, engage a legal consultant (specializing in the crypto space), and order technical and legal due diligence for the potential farm location. This requires initial funding that, unfortunately, can no longer be provided solely through our efforts.

Since all our team is from Ukraine, we face lots of obstacles, regarding engaging finances withing our national financial system and private investors. Ukraine has been suffering from war for 2,5 years, I guess there is no need to describe how unpleasant the investment background is right now.  Therefore, we are seeking someone who can finance this first stage of our project.

We need $150,000, which we plan to repay in a year, along with a 15% investor interest on top. Additionally, we offer 1 BTC in the event of a successful farm launch (if we manage to secure a Main Investor and build the farm by then).

I believe that our specialized crypto forum is much more receptive to such matters than direct appeals to people who are involved in completely different businesses. I don’t view our offer as a hidden loan, as I am openly explaining what these funds are needed for. I also believe that there should be an interest rate involved so that the First-Stage investor is incentivized to participate in this venture.

What will these funds be used for?
•      Creation of a company whose purpose is managing the crypto farm and investment activities (October-November)
•      Creation of company's identity (November-January)
•   Hiring a specialist or company as a legal advisor (October)
•   Legal support for the creation and operation of the company (October-November)
•   Business trips for that members of our team who are currently not in Ukraine to countries where the crypto farm locations are situated (October-January)
•   Business meetings with investment funds and private investors (October-January)
•   Attending leading crypto conferences (October-January)
•   Legal and technical inspections of the locations (November-January)
•   Payment for services provided by contractors:
        1.   Consultations with electricity suppliers
        2.   Consultations and development of the technical specifications for the crypto farm location
        3.   Brokerage services for location search (engagement fee)
        4.   Consultations on spot electricity trading and the FRR market
        5.   Development of a Heat Recapture Technology plan (possibility of selling the heat)
        6.   Consultations and work with government representatives regarding permits for the crypto farm's operations

Investor Interest for the First Stage of Investment:

After one year from the investment, the First-Stage Investor will receive back the principal investment and 15% profit.
In the event of a successful launch of the project, at the end of the first year of the crypto farm's operation, the First-Stage Investor will also receive an additional amount of 1 BTC , along with the return of the body ($150,000) and 15% ($22,500).
Additionally, the Investor in the first stage will have access to the entire project's pipeline.
The second and third stages of investment are planned after the company is established.

Project Pipeline (more details are provided in the proposal for building the crypto farm):
1.   October-January (execution of tasks for the first round of investment)
2.   December-February (execution of tasks for the second round of investment)
3.   February-September (execution of tasks for the third round of investment)
The pipeline starts from receiving the first amount of investment and ends with the construction of the crypto farm.

I understand that attracting investments is always associated with doubts and risks. I am ready to answer all specific questions, if there is genuine interest and proposals, rather than just comments suggesting that we won't succeed. We are not going to abandon our plan, despite hearing from all sides how unrealistic it is, especially for people in a country where there is such a continuous war. We are exploring all possible options and believe that we can achieve our goals. We would be happy to welcome those who are sincerely willing to join us.

Do you wish to remain anonymous?  If so, what collateral do you offer?

Do you mean that collateral is only needed if we won’t open our identities?

We are open to reveal our identities if I make sure that I get some serious interest from someone and intention to make a deal.

I also would like to know what exactly could be a collateral. So that we know what are the options.

I cannot speak for the crypto lenders here, as they operate under different expectations, but normally, an investor will want to make sure he is not getting scammed.    If you reveal your team, you're don't shrug off financial responsibility (like get incorporated),  and have a good business plan, a lender may offer you a loan here - but you'd get much better rates at a local bank.

Sounds like you want to remain anonymous.   You can read my post on good collateral, but I'll save you time - no one here will lend you $150K based on words alone.

I don't know but your timing is not ideal as investing $150k or about 2.3 BTC for a mining project and promising a return on capital plus 10% doesn't seem attractive with the possibility of Bitcoin rising to $140k by next September.

Also the promise of 1 BTC during this period plus a return on capital plus 10% profit seems very exaggerated unless you specify the country and average electricity costs.

In such projects unless you appear professional it is difficult to find an investor who pays $70k.
It is easy to get a one who pays $10k in such investments but you need to hire a good financial and legal advisor to ensure that 15 investors join with an average of $10k.

I know some people who might be interested but now is not the ideal time, mining projects usually do well in the mining winter when it is difficult to make profits from trading.

anyway good luck

I am ready to disclose my identity, as well as that of other team members, but only in private communication with a potentially interested investor. I will not reveal my personal details to all members of the forum, especially considering that the forum is originally characterized by anonymity and privacy. I don't know if doing so would even lead to the desired outcome.


The conditions in our Ukrainian banks are currently set up in such a way that people simply cannot meet them. This is done to seize collateral, which is usually priced much higher than the loan amount. It's a scheme that has existed in post-Soviet countries for about 30 years, and now, during the war, it has become even more widespread.

I can immediately tell that you’re a foreigner from some developed and sensible country, where bank loans are not given at 45-60% annual interest rates (moreover, these loans are tied to the dollar, not to the constantly depreciating national currency), and where banks don't try to take away a person’s last home. But these are the conditions I live under. If there were an opportunity to approach a decent bank with fair terms, I would have done so. However, I should note that I have already explored all local options and made attempts to use them. Currently, they are simply not viable at all.

There is also no separate Ukrainian section on the forum, only a thread, which has limited activity. I reached out to those Ukrainian forum members whom I trust and am now following their advice. However, as I’ve already mentioned, the investment climate in Ukraine is extremely challenging right now, with most people struggling to afford even basic survival.


Of course, no one invests based solely on words. However, to reveal additional details, we need to ensure that we are sharing them with a specific interested person and not publicly. If such a person is found, I will provide my personal information, including a link to my LinkedIn profile, and we can continue the conversation and discuss terms privately or in any other convenient format.

We are open to feedback and willing to consider other terms (aside from increasing the profit percentage) if we are convinced that someone is genuinely interested and has serious intentions. Everything can be discussed, and common ground can be found. Under these conditions, we are also open to sharing project details and involving the investor in the specifics.


I have no intention of remaining anonymous when it comes to securing the necessary funding. I was merely responding to your question within the logic in which it was posed.


You asked about collateral in case I want to remain anonymous, which is why I inquired whether collateral is required only under such conditions. Additionally, I would like to know if you are personally interested in my proposal.

In that private communication, you will do your best to convince him/her to invest without community involvement (i.e. trust me). If you have a potential legitimate project, tell us who you are.

(If you think I'm crazy - good news!  People will back you as soon as you explain why anyone woulc give you $150K without knowing who the money is going to)

You are a decade late, my scammr friend.  :(

First of all, let’s start with your address to me as ‘scummr friend.’

We do not know each other, so we are not friends.

Secondly, there are no financial obligations between us, so calling it a scam is your assumption.

Thirdly, I wrote that I am willing to reveal my identity in a private chat if I understand that we are discussing a serious matter. For some reason, you insist that I disclose something to you.

Anyone interested can write to me in a private chat, and revealing all my personal information on a public site, which is known for having mostly anonymous users, is contradictory.

I also would like to provide a more wide answer for those who might be interested in our conversation.


How I convince a potentially interested investor in private communication is my business, which should not be brought to the public. I believe in our project and have enough arguments to demonstrate its potential and feasibility. I think it is quite clear that I do not want to reveal these details to absolutely everyone, considering that the overwhelming majority are either not interested in my proposal or do not have the necessary amount for investment.


It would be better if you spoke for yourself rather than for everyone. If you were genuinely interested, you could have written to me privately and inquired about the details. Instead, you are just stating something that is exclusively your opinion and, for some reason, attributing it to other users.

You are an interesting person. For some reason, you assume that I am trying to deceive someone, even though no means have been provided for that to happen. We are currently having a discussion on the level of "talking," not on the level of "acting." So far, no specific questions have been asked or specific proposals made, so it is unclear to me whether there is any interest from your side in my proposal.

However, in the absence of all this, you are suggesting that I should immediately reveal personal information, even though there is absolutely no basis (so far) to believe that this will help attract the attention of a potential investor. If someone is interested in the proposal, they will show interest to the offer itself without my initial disclosure of identity. If it is not interesting to anyone, then revealing my identity will not serve as an additional argument for someone to change their mind. They don't know me as I am either way, but we can get acquaint if what I propose turns out to be interesting to someone.

Your suggestion is that I immediately reveal who I am, even though this is an irreversible action, which may not even lead to the result I desire (and I do not plan to leave the forum, nor do I understand leading you logic why others have the right to maintain privacy while I do not). I believe that accusing someone of scamming requires much more basis and evidence. I have not given reasons to think so, so your accusations are unfounded and offensive.

If I wanted to invest $150k in a mining operation I would do it myself in my own country and hire my own team.  Even in the USA's the Pacific North West there are plenty of affordable properties, and dirt-cheap electricity.  With $150k one could even budget the purchase of a small piece of land with a quonset hut and pay a mortgage instead of rent, thus stabilizing long-term expenses.

The trouble is, mining isn't as profitable as it once was.  The scale of mining that you could do with $150k is still pretty small compared to the large pools, and the chance of snagging a block is pretty small if you're solo mining.  If you latch on to a pool yourself, you'll only be rewarded for your hashrate.  Creating a pool of your own requires more resources and advertising, which will eat into your budget and reduce the number of mining rigs you can purchase/build.

I think your intentions are legitimate, but I also agree with Vod that you're about a decade too late for such a business to be viable at the scale you're suggesting.

DireWolfM14, you (and maybe Vod as well) misunderstood my proposal. My team is not building a crypto farm for $150,000. That would be a very small farm, which indeed would not be profitable. We are seeking a first-stage investment of $150,000 for the aforementioned in OP necessary actions:


After the establishment of the company and other preparatory stages, which I have mentioned once again above, there will be the main stage of attracting investments for the actual construction of the farm. For this, we have already established connections with professional investment funds that consider such proposals and are ready to invest large sums. However, they work not with individuals, but with companies. I have already explained that creating the company requires funds, which we currently do not have ourselves. Everything we could pay from our own pockets, we have already covered. Now, to move forward, we need this $150,000 to proceed to the main stage of attracting the Main Investor.

If you are interested in more detailed numbers of the project, I will provide them here to give a better understanding of what I am actually presenting to the community and to avoid unfounded accusations of scam.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/09/27/geSEv.jpeg

You are 100% going to scam - you've stated as such already.  You won't even try hard as you don't need the project to succeed. 


So you make a Ukrainian corporation, then spend all your money on trips for members of your team not in Ukraine, after saying all your team members are in Ukraine.   ???  If your investor has a legal stand (good luck - ukraine isn't in nato for a reason), your defence is simple - you spent the money as you said you would (hey, those limos out there aren't free) and things just didn't work out.  You're very sorry, but thank goodness you didn't tie your name to it - you can try again. 

If you are serious about building a mining farm, tell us who you are and your education/experience.  Then we can help you reduce your setup expenses from $150,000 by 80% or more.  We can give you advice, help you meet with investors without expensive caviar meetings, etc.   But please don't continue asking for any irreversible currency unless you are willing to identify yourself, provide properal collateral (if it is your last house yes we take it) or provide more than just words.

To be honest, I am tired of responding to baseless accusations, as you didn’t even bother to carefully read my initial post.


Tell me, where was it mentioned that the company would be created in Ukraine? Your assumptions live their own life, as far, as I can see. What possible logic could be hiding after creating a Ukrainian company (in a country with literally no opportunity to find investments) for building a farm ?

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I believe, you really find it very hard to reveal the true meaning of the sentences I wrote, that is why you continue to make something up by yourself.

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How can you possibly help me with something if you don't even manage to read what I am writing? Help me with what? Help me trying to understand, where do the assumptions come from that caviar and limousines will be bought?

I see that, judging by your assumptions, you might have had a wealth of experience in understanding how investments work and how they should be managed.

In that case – tell us who you are and your education/experience, and we will make an official request for collaboration with your organization (if such exists, of course). You will provide us with a commercial proposal and explain how exactly investments should be used and, moreover, how to optimize them by 80% and get an official payment which will be taxed.

If you refuse – it will become clear to us that you are the intellectual scammer, who don't even bother to pay attention on what was written and whose expertise does not extend beyond the borders of this forum.

The irony of assuming what I assume...


Shhh Mr. tough guy, everyone knows that already and I'm not asking for $150,000 loan.     8)

It’s very convenient to respond only to the statements that are comfortable for you. Look at how detailed my responses are, and how brief are yours. It’s clear who is actually interested in making his position more clear and who is just a local troll. Good luck in your victorious imaginary verification battles on the pages of this forum ;>
s a side note, judging and assuming are different things. Unlike you, I draw conclusions from the actual words you’ve written, not from something I’ve imagined myself.

Just so you know, I’m not asking for money from you, in case you misunderstood. I don’t recall any specific request from you for funding. You haven't shown any genuine interest, nor have you provided any constructive feedback. I also have no confidence that you even have the amount we need. Considering that I haven’t seen any substantial arguments from your side, I’m drawing the corresponding conclusion about your qualifications. Moreover, I’m not asking for anything. I’m offering something. This is a deal, not charity or assistance.

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By the way, I forgot to comment in my previous post on your extraordinary suggestion to cut the necessary budget by 80% or more. So, according to you, I should be making an offer for $30,000 or even less. Interesting that for such an amount, you suggest taking my last house, the one I live in, as collateral. Who are we, by the way, who will take it?


Clearly, you understand Ukrainian realities much better than you initially demonstrated. Maybe you are yourself from a non-NATO country?

 :o  :o  :o

Seriously dude!  That's like Silicon Valley level start up money.  Not the kind of money you get for a totally speculative business that relies on price fluctuations of the "product" (i.e. bitcoin) and the off chance that you'll be snagging a block reward a rare occasion.

Just from math perspective your proposed number of miners will produce only 1.5EH while the competition is pushing 200.  That wouldn't even put you in the top 20.  Not to mention, nearly $8 million of your budget is slated for stuff that isn't making you any money.  I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but Vod's skepticism is starting to infect me too.

If you think $150k is going to set you on your way to secure $40 million in funding for such a lopsided proposal, you truly are delusional.  Or looking to scam.

Unfortunately, you have entered a vicious circle here. In fact, you are asking for a personal loan from an unknown investor, so you do not currently have a registered company, nor are you under anyone's supervision (supervision of the relevant state authorities).
In order to be able to expect more significant loansinvestment, you must have a company, while in fact, you are borrowing asking for money to establish a company which will at some point guarantee the payment of profit.

It turns out that you only have an idea, but you are completely out of money to start a business. I would not be optimistic about the realization.

Maybe he is hoping his winning personality will make up the difference.  :)

Your comment is well-structured and indeed raises valid questions and doubts on the topic.

Except for the last paragraph, but I suggest we have a discussion on this topic together.

The number of machines – 3000 with a capacity of 473 terahashes (they haven’t been officially released yet, distribution starts in November) – S21 Hydro XP with water cooling.

Undoubtedly, it can be mentioned that these machines will fall behind in competition in half a year or a year, like Hut 8 machines with more than 800 terahashes per unit (these machines are expected in Q2 2025, but their new chip still needs to be tested on the mass market). However, today, the S21 XP Hydro are cutting-edge machines with significant energy efficiency (5.67 kW/h).

If you do the math, you’ll see consumption of nearly 20 MW (adding in the consumption of the cooling system).

This is regarding the machines, and I believe there’s no doubt about their reliability and efficiency.

In response to the thesis that $8,000,000 is going towards something that doesn't generate financial returns:

The farm’s efficiency depends not only on terahash performance but also on energy efficiency indicators and the cost of electricity.

A large portion of the sum is allocated to provide the location with the necessary on-grid electricity and, in fact, a fixed electricity cost contract (for up to 5 years).

Such locations exist, but in most cases, they don't have an electricity substation nearby, which means a substation capable of supplying and transmitting 20 MW from the power plant on a permanent basis needs to be built.

To have such a location for the farm, the following is required:

- Build a substation (if necessary, which it usually is)
- Purchase the location/plot of land
- Conduct due diligence on the company that owns the plot
- Perform technical inspections of the location

All of this is included in the budget mentioned above.

Also, a significant portion of the funds goes to the cooling system, which is a central element of the mining farm's operation.

Can this be avoided?
The answer is no.

Do we need funds for equipment maintenance?
Of course, equipment often breaks down, especially the new water-cooling system (immersive cooling is even more expensive to operate).

If you believe that the $8,000,000 allocated to ensure the farm's operation is going nowhere, I have no further arguments beyond those listed above.

If you also conduct market research in both the USA and Northern Europe, you’ll find that most locations cost more than $4,000,000 per location.

We have allocated $1,800,000 for this.

If mining farms weren’t profitable, no one would be involved in them.

I hope I have addressed some of the points that raised your concerns.

You'll need to borrow this money from your local community.  They can hold you accountable at whatever level they feel is appropriate.

We send you money, you'll disappear faster than the people holding 500 bitcoin for this forum.    ;D

That is only your assumption, again, it is absolutely unfounded; you have provided neither evidence nor any justification. You base your accusations, both in this thread and in your review of my trust, exclusively on your own opinions. You have not explained who the 'we' are you are constantly referring to; I don't even understand who these 'we' are, who could potentially invest in my proposal. As far as I can see, you are the only one who spread all this accusations against me and I don’t see any of your allies in this activity.

You only have general statements that do not answer any of the questions I have personally asked you directly. It’s a very convenient position because you can accuse someone of anything without taking any responsibility for it. So far, the situation looks like I haven’t taken anything from anyone, haven’t deceived anyone, and haven’t cheated anyone out of money. However, you have managed to accuse me of all of this several times, ruined my trust for no reason, and continue to throw around baseless accusations.

Once again just to be clear: you have all the right not to trust me and have your doubts. But I didn’t address my offer to you personally. I don’t wait this funding from you, and honestly, even if you offered to invest in my project, I would reject this offer after all you have written here. You can have you doubts, but if you continue to accuse me of something, please, make at least some efforts to provide some prof.

How do you want me to provide proof you will not scam?

I only have my experience and common sense.

 ::)

At last, a comment from your side where we can really discuss something and not just throw accusations at each other.

So, let’s discuss.

Firstly, if I were in the place of the one being offered the project, I would want to know its essence and the reasoning of the one proposing it.

This is exactly how we as a team communicate with potential investors in person here in Kyiv, preemptively learning who our potential investor is. For example, at our last meeting, it was the owner of a cafe chain in Kyiv, and at the previous one, it was a person looking to diversify his capital into the digital sphere (our project or, for instance, directly purchasing BTC) and build another enterprise for the production of drones.

Since this forum is inherently anonymous (perhaps someone knows you in real life, but that doesn’t mean the general rule should be violated), I write based on the principles of anonymity on this forum. However, in the first message of this thread, I mentioned that we are ready to communicate privately with a more in-depth dive into the data we can provide.

According to Karl Popper, any thesis is scientific if it allows for the possibility of its own refutation.
I believe this thesis is generally useful for analyzing any phenomenon in the modern world of information.

Common sense is also formed based on a methodology of thoughts, which is why I suggest we take a look at the points I’ve outlined above regarding where the 40,000,000 are going, especially the points about the allocation of the 8,000,000 USD, so that you can understand that the overall construction of the farm is quite complex and costly both from the technical equipment side and from the legal and energy side.

I believe that, as of now, you and me don’t owe each other anything (we don’t have any financial obligations between us), so instead of accusations, we can better discuss some aspects of the project in general and not turn this into another thread where everything devolves into ad hominem discussions.

I’ve provided general information, and we can discuss it here in this thread. I suggest you familiarize yourself with what’s written above about the farm’s operation and ask the questions that interest you.

Our team currently has an NDA agreement signed with some counter-parties, so I immediately note that disclosing the location would be a violation of this agreement.

However, questions about the project are open for discussion

Again, provide proof you will not scam.   Words are not proof.

I have nothing further to contribute - if you feel you are winning people over with your ambiguous promises, please continue.  I have left negative trust to warn others who may think the internet is honest. 

You know, the burden of proof that someone is deceiving, lies with the one who is accusing the person of it. As far as I know, in the civilized world, there is such a thing as the presumption of innocence. First, one must prove that a person is guilty of something because false accusations entail responsibility.

Despite all this, I will meet you halfway. What kind of evidence, in your opinion, should be provided? Can you give examples at least? Because I can present various facts, but they still won’t satisfy you. When you speak of evidence, you must have something in mind. It would be good to voice this to add some specifics, rather than just being vague, leaving the accused person to fumble around, trying to guess what unspoken points you're referring to.

Go to a bank and talk to them.  They will tell you the proof you need.  When they offer you a loan, turn it down due to their high interest rates.  You'll then have enough proof to get a loan here!

I'm not sure why you think bitcoin is different than fiat currency.

Is here anyone from post-Soviet countries who could join the discussion and finally explain why no Ukrainian bank would currently offer a loan in such an amount in foreign currency, let alone provide any documents that would help understand what’s going on in Vod's mind and what he will consider sufficient proof?

Again, as always, no direct answer to the question. Maybe you take me for a fool, and that’s your acceptable line of behavior. I am used to communication being based on principles where questions are given clear answers, or the questions are clarified so that it’s possible to provide such an answer. You do neither.

You neither understand nor try to understand the realities I live in (although I’ve clearly outlined why I’m bringing this proposal to the forum, detailed the steps I took before turning to the forum, and also explained why they didn’t work). Yet, you actively continue to make unfounded assumptions. What made you decide that I think this way? Don’t present this as a non-disputed statement. If you were genuinely interested in understanding how I think, you’d ask questions rather than attribute to me things that have nothing to do with me .

From all your comments, I’ve only become convinced of one thing: the red tag you slapped on me without any justification says more about you than about me. If some users are fine with blind trust in dubious authorities, let them pay attention to it. But for those who refuse to base their judgments on assumptions, guesses, and experience (why you present this as an argument, I still don’t understand — everyone here has experiences that others may know nothing about, so what? Is vague experience now a sufficient reason not to justify one’s claims?), I suggest reading the entire thread and forming their own opinion.

It would be interesting, however, to hear your arguments, logical, about why you think the project is dishonest? Constant repetition of words unsupported by anything, does not give you weight and importance :)

And again, for an educated person, there should be an understanding between fraud and risks. About risks - yes you can talk and you should, it is a subtle topic of any investment. Since all investment projects have risks. Talking about fraud - makes sense if only you have arguments and not empty shaking of the air, regular repetition of the same phrases. “Fraud” could be attributed to the project if they were collecting money anonymously, in crypto, without any plans for an official relationship.  But here people have a project, there is a calculation, there are open plans .... So once again I repeat - give your logical arguments, or don't make posts :)
And try to prove that you are not a government official who is trying to hinder the development of the crypto market and technology in general, very much like that.... Or at least - you are not a very successful competitor who is not doing very well and the next competitor will simply destroy your business, so you are trying to vilify him :)


To the author of the topic - personally, I am interested in the calculation of the company's profit, taking into account the complexity of the network and the real income at the declared capacity of mining equipment,

I am a third party in this situation. I do not live in Ukraine and I can not say anything about the project presented by Etranger (and I will not judge how attractive this project is for investment - I do not know).

However, I do not think that Etranger is a scammer (perhaps she is just a naive girl who tries to participate in various offline and online activities). As far as I know, she is a young Ukrainian, an active member of the Bitcointalk forum. She posts a lot on the Bitcointalk and Altcoinstalks forums, participates in subscription campaigns, is actively engaged in trading. I can not say anything bad about her (only good). In my opinion, she does not deserve a negative (red) tag in the trust.

If the respected user of the Vod forum listens to my request (we are not personally acquainted, but I read that you are a very authoritative user of the forum), then maybe he is ready to change his decision (for example, change the tag to neutral or remove it altogether)? Thanks in advance.

DrBeer, you are definitely the first one who really has shown the true interest in this project, and not only the desire to criticise without even diving into the details. I am open to share our calculations with you and like I mentioned several times already in this thread, I will do this in private, because it is not such kind of information you disclose for everyone, especially for those who do all they can to demonstrate they don’t need it to draw their conclusions.

When you get acquainted with project presentation, our forecast and numbers, I will kindly ask you to confirm here in the thread that you have really seen all of this documents, just to eliminate the attempts for someone’s unfounded assumptions in the scam.

It's a pleasure to deal with you. You seem like the type of person who first understands the issue, rather than thinking that he already has ready-made answers and judgments for everything.

I would hope so!  I'm trying to help with great advice, as my reputation proves, even if you so quickly forgot my written warning about asking for large non-collateral loans.

I may want to start up a mining farm too.   My budget will be 20% less than yours (just numbers based on nothing) and I'll offer a better return.  Why would anyone be stupid enough to invest in yours?

Don't try and talk me out of it - I'll ignore you and insult you but I won't take any of your valuable advice.

My first step should be any lending agency, to see what proof they require.  You should work on proving you know how to run a business.  :0

Let's go the other way, which will be more productive - provide data, what are the requirements of credit agencies, as well as what conditions they offer for similar projects, in YOUR COUNTRY. For what? We will just all evaluate how much the topic of attracting loans from banks and credit agencies is acceptable in this case ?
The problem is that credit conditions are very different from country to country. In this case, as practice shows - the search and attraction of investors for all sorts of projects, is not any “illegal” or “suspicious” method.
For example, I am a citizen of Ukraine, I live in Ukraine, and I am an investor in some projects, including cryptocurrency. And I know that the peculiarities of the situation in the country, as well as the conditions of the banking/credit sector, are not very acceptable for many projects. That's why private investors are often attracted in this way.

PS And yes, it is good manners - if you accuse in something - give arguments. No arguments - then write “it seems to me, although I can't prove or give any meaningful arguments, that this could be a dishonest project”

Who others do you want to warn in this case? A person who is ready to invest 150 thousand in some project, but does not use the support of his lawyer and does not study all the circumstances of the business plan to a sufficient extent, is unlikely to have such capital for investment. And the rest, in principle, do not face any risk due to such an offer. The negative tag in this case seems excessive and something personal. What specific risk and for whom do you see from this offer? Are there any inexperienced investors on the forum ready to send 150 thousand to a stranger on their word of honor?

I will not encourage anyone to participate in this project, I myself do not find it interesting enough, but at the same time I believe that a potential investor should certainly take care of the issue of protecting his investments on his own and study all issues seriously enough, including issues of legal protection of his investments. Your warnings in words can have some sense and your tag has nothing correlating with that.

You are right - it's not like he is trying to scam $20.   He is certainly not CEO material, and no one looking to increase their wealth would support this scam. 

One can make a new account, spend an hour making a budget and post here as many times as they need - having an instant advantage over this guy.   This is why I call it a scam - it took no time or talent; it's just words.  I do not want Project Development to turn into a spam board like this and I have spent years sending reports to the old moderator.

I'll remove that negative trust as I feel it dilutes the rest.   The next guy might come on here asking fir $450,000!   I have to concentrate on the scams that have a possibility of succeeding.

https://media.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/the-sky-is-falling-the-sky-is-falling-oh-wait-its-just-rain-never-mind-6b47b.png

Once again, I am open to questions and continuing the discussion. I started this topic to answer the questions that are not confidential openly and publicly; and for those that are private, I am ready to discuss them through personal communication. I understand that to spark enough interest for personal communication, it is necessary to first provide some information, which is why I have written all my posts in a very detailed manner. Thank you to those who have joined the discussion constructively and shown respect and interest.

My goal in this topic is not only to attract funds for the project but also to discuss the details of my proposal in order to make it more advantageous and stronger. I hope that more people will join us and share constructive thoughts.

Let's go back to the project we are talking about here.
As far as I understand, the initial figure you are asking from investors is $150k. What exactly is that money for?
After that, and how much money is needed later until the business is set up to be functional?
I guess it's not all secret and you can share some of the details.

I can, and as a matter of a fact, I already did.


These money will be used for the following tasks:


For example, now members of our team who do not currently live in Ukraine are skipping the conference in Amsterdam (https://b.tc/conference/amsterdam), where our counterparties from USA will be present and with whom we were supposed to meet in person for establishing further collaboration.

 

---

The whole crypto farm project requires $40,000,000. However, these funds are not directly connected to the first-stage investment. Even if we won't succeed in securing money for the main investment, we will pay $150,000 + 15% back from our own pocket. I mean, that paying back the initial investment of $150,000 + 15% doesn't depend on the next investment stage.

I guess you need to ask the right question.   :-\

OP - how much money is needed for each task?


OK, that will help with the investors!   How can you prove you have the funds to do so?

If you are able to come up with $150k to pay back the initial loan irrespective of future funding, why bother with the loan in the first place?  If your proposal fails to obtain the $40 million you need, you will be out $150k, not $172,500.  Why risk putting yourself in the hole for another $22,500?

•      Creation of a company whose purpose is managing the crypto farm and investment activities – $15,000
•      Creation of company's identity – $20,000 (part of presentation of a company)
•   Hiring a specialist or company as a legal advisor – $18,000 ($1,500 per month)
•   Legal support for the creation and operation of the company – $10,000 (payment which is required for legal actions on the company`s creation stage)
•   Business trips for that members of our team who are currently not in Ukraine to countries where the crypto farm locations are situated – $8,000 (2 members, $4,000 for each. Countries: Switzerland, Norway and Finland)
•   Business meetings with investment funds and private investors - $6,000 (2 members, $3,000 for each. This category includes tickets, accomodation and local transportation, not cavier in reastaurants. Note that there are 4 trips planning)
•   Attending leading crypto conferences - $4,000
•   Legal and technical inspections of the locations (also due dilligence included) – $35,000-40,000
•   Payment for services provided by contractors:
        1.   Consultations with electricity suppliers - $2,500
        2.   Consultations and development of the technical specifications for the crypto farm location - $3,500
        3.   Brokerage services for location search (engagement fee) - $10,000 (to the particular broker,  location presented by whom will be chosen)
        4.   Consultations on spot electricity trading and the FRR market  - $4,000
        5.   Development of a Heat Recapture Technology plan (possibility of selling the heat) - $5,000 (individual plan)
        6.   Consultations and work with government representatives regarding permits for the crypto farm's operations - $4,000

The clarification of these numbers are available for those who will engage in a private conversation with us, as long as it is NDA information.


The issue of collateral, as well as our ability to return the investment along with the total interest, is also discussed personally. PS. I have never said that there is no collateral. I only stated that it is not for a public declaration.

---

Because we need the funds now. Our personal funds will be available only in mid-July. By that time, it can be late to build a farm, because we will lose a lot of time, moreover, bull oriented time. Even if we build it as fast as it could be, the farm will start operating no early than October of the next year. We are aiming to launch it in February 2025, therefore we will have 9 month more for generating bitcoin.

What the letteral fuck?

That's $63k for the same thing just worded differently.  North Dakota is among the states with the cheapest electricity in US, it costs $135 to register an LLC in North Dakota.  The forms are so simple, even I could do it without legal help.  There, I just saved you $62,865.


$20k for boondoggles, got it.  Ever heard of Zoom?  And what exactly is attending "leading crypto conferences" going to do for you?  You already know you want to mine bitcoin.  Do you think you'll be the only one at these conferences looking to lure investors?  Or maybe you think your winning personality and sexy legs will cause you to stand out from the other winning personalities and sexy legs?


What due diligence?  Mining bitcoin isn't illegal.  As long as you pay for the electricity you consume, you'll stay out of legal trouble.


1. Free
2. Shelving from Home Depot
3. I already told you; North Dakota (that'll be $10k, please)
4. I won't repeat myself (but that's another $4k, please)
5. Install an air conditioner (that's another $5k you owe me)
6. Local business licenses cost less than $20.


No need for a private conversation, I just buggered your entire proposal.  If this isn't a scam, it's the stupidest attempt at creating a startup that I've ever heard of.  $150k wasted on useless bullshit.  It was one thing when I thought you were going spend the $150k on miners and infrastructure, but this is completely bat-shit crazy.  You haven't even reaserched the costs of these things you're talking about, and that's plain to see now.  You're literally just making shit up and plugging a number next to it.


Oh, you need funds NOW!  Like bitcoin is going away in 9 months time?  Believe me, if you're grandiose plans can't handle an unexpected delay of 9 months, you've got bigger problems than not getting the $150k loan (which you're not.)  So, if I were you, start planning on spending your own money.  Please keep me informed on your progress.  ::)

I'm not talking collateral.  You said you have the funds to pay the full amount you are asking plus interest.   I'm asking how you can prove you have that money, not asking you to provide it.  You said it's coming in July, so you must have paperwork.

Are you ready to withdraw this BS scam and save your reputation?  As a Ukrainian myself, don't be using your status to pity scam.   

1. It's shocking how incompetent a person can be in mining and yet still feel confident enough to express their opinions on the matter.

2. You think you saved us $63,000, but that only confirms how little experience you have in the legal sector and how little you know about the legal and technical development of a mining farm project.

3. We are not planning to establish a company in the U.S. and pay taxes there.

4. Most of the land sold in the U.S. exceeds $1,500,000 in price (we have evidence that we will present to those knowledgeable on the matter in a private conversation).

5. Developing infrastructure on bare land will cost even more than $1,000,000. I have this data, and I will present it to an interested party. Meanwhile, you can go and research the issue.

6. Your comments regarding due diligence further confirm that you’ve never dealt with a mining farm. When you want to purchase land anywhere, you need to check the legal status not only of the land but also of the legal structure that owns it. The connection between due diligence and electricity is a mystery. Paying electricity bills is a separate legal procedure related to the electricity provider.

7. I owe you absolutely nothing. Clearly, you've never had any real dealings with a crypto farm. We've seen experts like you before, whose activity is limited to this forum.

8. It is delusional to think that air conditioning is compatible with a machine that operates on hydro cooling (can you read?). You didn't even bother to look up what a heat recapture system is and why it is crucial for a mining farm.

9. If you want to build a crypto farm for $150,000, good luck, and keep me informed on your progress.

---

Vod, if you are truly a Ukrainian, lets meet in person and discuss the matter privately

But I have lots of doubts of you being a Ukrainian, since you make reference to paperwork.

1.  I used to run a mining guild.   Mined three blocks in a week.

2.  I am truly a Ukrainian - my grand parents emigrated to Canada and I have mentioned my heritage on the forum before.

3.  Paperwork is a term used in Canada to mean something trackable, versus just your words.  :)

What does having Ukrainian roots (which are quite distant) have to do with the realities that people here are currently facing?

You live under different conditions, with different values and rules. And I think you have little understanding of how things work in Ukraine now and how they worked before the war.

For us, Ukrainian citizenship is a reality, not a call from our ancestors. And judging by your words, you're not familiar with this reality.

Moreover, belonging to Ukrainians is not related to the subject of the discussion. But the realities in Ukraine are.

Opening a company is not just a piece of paper confirming its creation, but also the need to have funds in the company's account. Take some time to read about how GmbH works in Switzerland.

What is the purpose of your question? Are you a potential investor? If not, I will not provide any further information. You're not asking to engage in a constructive conversation or contribute to the implementation of this project; you're just trying to dig into personal matters. I've already shared a lot of information, even though it became clear to me right away that you have no intention of even exploring my proposal. I understand that you don't like it. Why should I go line by line with you if it won't lead to my desired result? Just so you have more reasons to mock me and show your superiority?

P.S. There is no such thing as Pierogi in Ukrainian cuisine. Check you roots, "Ukrainian fellow friend", it seems to me, that Polish and Ukrainian are the same thing to you. Not so distant indeed.
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/10/06/icwDd.png

---

Initial funding is the key matter of this topic. You can check the name of the thread, by the way. All we have been discussing is initial funding. I made a mistake to think that this was already clear after 3 pages of posts. But now I see it wasn't. I clarified all the expense items in the initial investment. I have written where, when, and how much money is allocated. This all concerns the initial investment. Since the main investment is significantly larger, it is also detailed in the screenshot I have already published, and its discussion has already taken place.

That's not my intention - I have treated you the same way you treat others.   I deleted my previous message to post something different, but you snuck in a quote lol,


OK, so make a new line, call it "Initial funding".     This is not a waste of time - you'll need to do this all anyway for each investor.
What will the $15,000 be used for?

You called me scammer several times having absolutely no justification. I don't treat others like that.

Of course, I quoted you. If you don't want to be responsible for your words, than what is the point of writing them in the first place?

I have already explained, how $15,000 and the rest $135,000 as well will be used. You can scroll up and read it once again. When you find out the way to cut those expenses for creating GmbH in Switzerland, let's continue this conversation.

Oh, so now you think you can get a loan by insulting me?  My competency isn't in question; I'm not the one requesting a small fortune from complete strangers.  As for your competency, it's rather clear to me (since I've started 3 businesses in my life) that you are guilty of that accusation yourself.

Your incompetence has been made even more obvious by snipping my comment in your response, rather than addressing the points I made.

DireWolfM14 , I see. You find the statement about your personal incompetence in building a crypto farm insulting. Although the point about incompetence specifically in the matter (not every matter) of building a crypto farm implies from your previous statements. A person cannot be competent in everything, that’s just a fact. Therefore, I see no reason for offence.

Moreover, take a look at your previous post, at the manner in which it is written. I wasn’t the one who used the word ‘fuck’, by the way. And irrelevant mention of sexy legs. That’s not insulting, huh?


A small fortune  is understood differently by everyone. And I already mentioned that I’m not asking but offering. Earning 22.5k in a year is not something everyone can do. Especially by doing little to nothing for it.

You can open 33 businesses if you want, but that doesn’t make you knowledgeable in the matter of a crypto farm. Just as I am a stranger to you, you are a stranger to me. So I draw conclusions only from your arguments, not from references to business experience, which I know nothing about.

You tell others to read - try it yourself.   

 :-\

Believe me when I say you are incapable of offending me.
Further more, I've been mining for over six years.  I'm also really good at math, assessing risk, and starting businesses that succeed...  All you've done in this thread is argue against hard facts with nonsense and numbers you've pulled out thin air.  By doing so, you've made it obvious that you've done zero research and that you are not a risk worth investing in.



A small fortune that you don't have.  How is risking $150k doing little to nothing?  That's an annual salary for many, and a lot more for most.  If you consider whole year (or more) of other people's labor as little to nothing, you are not worthy of such an investment.  But you've already made that obvious by how you intend to squander it.

Interesting thing indeed.


I believe, everyone else sees this. Specially for you I`ll leave it here, so you won't forget what you have written

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/10/06/ihR2b.jpeg

---

What exactly the point of referring to this third line in your signature (which, by the way, has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion topic here), when you clearly didn't have it at the time of writing the post in the screenshot above, and clearly didn't have it even before? Do you really think someone would believe that wasn’t you who posted all this only just because you added some new line to your signature?

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/10/06/ihI85.jpeg
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/10/06/ihEfd.jpeg
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/10/06/ih3Az.jpeg
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/10/06/ihNQI.jpeg

Geez bozo, I only mentioned my deleted post so you wouldn't be accused of multiposting.     ::)

You are now going on ignore.  

Edit:  I just deleted another post I re-posted in Meta.   I'm not hiding more info!   ::)

Quite a relief for me. You also edited your signature once again after my last post so that it again has only two lines exactly for the same reason, I guess. So nobody would accuse you of multiposting. You should explain your ambiguous posts better so that people have a clearer understanding of what exactly you can be accused of.

While someone is using his favorite technique of realizing his complexes of “throwing shit on the fan” without providing arguments, sorry - that's what reality looks like, I decided to be a bit more pragmatic and constructive. Yesterday I met with the authors of the project, live.... I always have a lot of questions for such complex projects, as I have experience and understanding of processes and legal nuances (I have my own business in the EU as well). Prior to the meeting, at my request, I was provided with the necessary documentation and what is important - the economic component of the project. It was both to check the seriousness of the approach to the project and to get information that could be checked and on the basis of which I could formulate qualitative questions.
Today unfortunately there is no time to describe the meeting, I will try to do it tomorrow, and to convey my vision and, what is important, but not usual for everyone - ARGUMENTS. If very briefly - the documentation and pre-project preparation alone deserves respect, a lot of work has been done and moreover - it is real work !

PS Separately, I will note - I have not often met projects where people “burning with an idea”, objectively and qualitatively assess the risks.

We look forward to reading it!   I wonder why the OP couldn't show us he did more than ten minutes work.  :/

I would do that, but, you know, you’ll just ignore it.

The answer to your question can be answered by reading this thread. The reason - you never once asked for information, but actively insulted the author and the project with your FANTASIES :).
Or if I am wrong - point out in which post I missed your request to the author - “show your calculations, we will discuss constructively” ? :)

No worries friend - we can move forward.  :)

Looking forward to all this planning and details!

So I am right, and the reason that you were not shown this data is that you did not ask for it, right ? I just want not just to continue the dialog, but also to get answers to simple questions, which for some reason the opponent does not want to answer ! :) This is not how dialog is conducted, or everyone answers your questions, and you ignore and bypass questions in your direction. Let's be consistent - first you answer my questions, then I will continue my answers to your questions and expectations. Otherwise it's not a dialog but a “game in one gate”, but it will not be like that, it is not an acceptable way of dialog... I understand you are more comfortable and “safer”, but the rules are the same for everyone ! :)

You can start a topic in Reputation or Meta to gain support for your assumptions, if you choose.  I'm interested in the project details!  Asking for them again  :)

Look what a great result - it turns out that you can have a constructive dialog, without insults and accusations of what you can not prove :)

I will try to share the information by evening.

I looked at the costs, and frankly, too much money will be spent on various consultations and 'conversations', and it seems to me unjustified to take a loan + pay interest for such things, while the whole process has not moved forward much.

I assume that you can provide some clear guarantees for this money, some real estate that you own or similar. This should not be a problem if you already have a safe income that will cover the repayment of the loan investment.

btw. Why do you decide on Switzerland, one of the most expensive countries, if the location is not your primary concern? It seems like an unnecessary waste of investors' money, for a longer-term investment, it is necessary to demonstrate a much more rational spending of money.

These consultations and 'conversations' are an integral part of the work. Having an idea is wonderful, but it needs a lot of research work to understand how to make this idea real. The whole idea of the farm, the calculations, and the implementation plan do not come out of thin air. To develop this project, we studied a lot of different information, attended meetings with working miners, communicated with Bitmain and Whatsminer representatives, real estate agents from different countries to learn what location is needed, and representatives of the energy sector. We invested a lot of time and money for self-education. Otherwise, our proposal would have been incompetent, and therefore the chances of the project's implementation would have been very low. We couldn't let it happen.

Attending conferences is a necessity because an investor for the main amount cannot be found somewhere like Walmart; I think that’s clear. Such people need to be sought in specific circles, among like-minded individuals who understand what we are talking about. Finding such people is quite challenging. To do this, you need to look for them specifically in places where these people gather—gather to have consultations and conversations with each other.

The process has progressed as far as possible without additional funding. We have done the maximum amount of work that can be done solely on our own initiative and with our own funds (we are not millionaires, at least not yet). Therefore, in my opinion, the project has made significant progress and is far from being just an idea that is ephemeral and unsubstantiated.


First, what does an unnecessary waste of investor's money mean if the investor gets his money back in full plus a very good interest rate? The investor may even not be concerned about where exactly the funds are going as long as we fulfill our obligations to him. Which we will. There are investors who are primarily interested in making a profit. They won’t be concerned about how exactly we use the funds or what we do as long as we ensure their return in time. For them, it’s purely a utilitarian interest. In that case, we do what we deem necessary, and the investor receives his money back along with the interest. Each party is satisfied. The terms of the agreement are very simple and straightforward. But I have explained, where those $150,000 will be going, our terms are open and purpose and cost of each category is justified.

Second, registering a company in Switzerland opens many doors. Switzerland in general, and certain cantons in particular, especially Zug, have fairly developed cryptocurrency legislation. This clarifies the procedures for tax payments, converting mined coins into fiat money, spending this income, and even the legal registration of cryptocurrency activities. Additionally, a company in Switzerland appears much more reputable than one in, say, Ethiopia, because Switzerland is known for its adherence to the law and protection of parties' rights.

Not to diminish your effort and work, but if you need another $150k for further research, I wonder how far you have gone beyond just an idea.
What will happen to the idea if these professional discussions show that your idea is not as viable as you thought (which is quite possible, because as you say you are self-educated), and you overlooked some additional costs... What is the plan in that case?

Of course, the investor will be interested in how you dispose of his money. Especially if he still has no sure guarantee that he will get all his money (plus interest) back. Certainly, he will not be happy if you pay something like $1000 instead of $500, plus, the next investment in the purchase of equipment has yet to arrive.
Otherwise, you don't need an investor, but a bank that will give you a loan. If there are several of you in the team, it probably won't be a problem to give some real estate as a pledge that the loan will be repaid. In that case, you can wash your feet with Dom Perignon if you want, who cares as long as you pay off the debt.

In your case, Switzerland does not have a better reputation than, for example, Germany, but it is certainly more expensive. You also reject the US as an option, I guess Switzerland's reputation in the business world is better.

There are no formal institutions in the crypto sphere that provide systematic knowledge and offer a recognized certificate or diploma. Everyone working in the crypto sphere is self-educated or has learned from others who are also self-educated.

In case we overlooked some additional costs we foresaw the need to allocate (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5510563.msg64576694#msg64576694) "Funds that may not be required but are needed in case if growing prices for infrastructure" and "Funds for repairing needs". All of this can be checked in the Investment Proposal I have already shared. Moreover, we are open to making our numbers more profitable if we hear reasoned advice from qualified specialists.


I already explained why it is not possible to reach the Ukrainian bank for such a loan. Firstly, they do not issue loans in foreign currency. Secondly, loans are now generally not issued for amounts exceeding 10 thousand dollars, and that is for small- and medium-sized businesses. Lending to individuals has simply died due to the conditions in which we now live. If we don't count lots of micro-credital organisations, working tightly with collectors, who offer 5-30% per day! This is in Western countries you can easily go to a bank and take out a loan for a decent amount at 3-5% per annum. In Ukraine, this does not exist. Here 3-5% per month is a divine interest.



Germany has progressive taxes—the more you earn, the more you pay to the state. Moreover, their cryptocurrency legislation is not nearly as developed. In Switzerland, taxes in some cantons are much more lenient, and the crypto sphere is better regulated. There are several levels of taxation in Switzerland. (1) All country, also known as Federal, (2) District/Canton and (3) Local/ Gemeinde. Also they have a corporate tax, which is another branch of a story.

That's what a lawyer is needed for (the necessity of whom many here have doubted, thinking they could perform these functions themselves). A lawyer handles taxation matters and advises on the best location for establishing a company. Some of the lawyer's services have already been paid for out of our pocket, which is why our decision to establish a company in Switzerland is well-founded and backed by professional advice.

Hi !

Unfortunately today didn't quite go to plan and I only sat down an hour ago to write a detailed review of our meeting. So I'm taking a small pause, tentatively until tomorrow evening to qualitatively describe what I saw, what I was given, what was discussed, plus there are some points that I would like to clarify with the owners of the project.  Therefore - a small pause to prepare a qualitative answer, I am sure it will be accepted with understanding.

I will immediately note, and respond to the discussion above - legal advice and legal support for a project with a significant budget, always requires quality legal support, which in the EU is unfortunately, not cheap. If anyone who thinks that the “cost” of lawyers is high - can offer proven law firms, with lower rates - I'm sure the project owners will be happy to use their services.

PS The meeting took place on Monday, in the evening, October 7, Kiev in a cozy cafe, almost in the center of Kiev :)




That's the difference between bank loans and investors ! Banks give you someone else's money, at wild interest rates, with collateral exceeding the financial body of the loan.
Investor - invests in the “born” business, and he can not demand 100% and can not get 100% guarantees. Investments are in a sense a risk, but a risk that will give a significant profit in case of a positive launch of the project. And this is not my fantasies or professional assessment, this is reality !

DrBeer, are you now on the team?  Obviously they are promising you some return to help validate this scheme, and your reputation will suffer should they scam.  :/

Since your words, morals and observable intelligence are almost equal to that of the OP, you probably will make a good team member.   Before you write out different phrases of the vague sentences we have already read, please identify if you have a financial interest in this project.

Vod  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Tell me honestly - do you ever have it so that your answer is not constructed in a way that is not morbid and paranoid thinking ? :)
I have an impression that you just have a mechanism of realization of some complexes of yours, by throwing mud and attributing bad deeds to others. If it is so - I strongly recommend not to disgrace yourself here in front of everyone, causing laughter, and to address to specialized specialists - it may not be so pleasant in sensations, but it will be a tangible effect :).

Regarding the question, yours, although I know in advance that you will answer that I am lying, and the whole process of remuneration will be hidden and criminal (sorry I do not have such a morbid fantasy as you have, it's all I could do from the point of view of your usual nonsense), so, I answer - no :).
Even from the point of view of an objective assessment of reality (sorry if the words for you are not clear and ominous - reality and objectivity) - I can not become a member of the FORMED team, especially after only 2-hour meeting ...
 
I'm interested in figuring out the project. The reason is trivial - during the discussion of the project, there were topics that in PERSPECTIVE, may be attractive to me as an investor. I hope that “in the long term” and “investor” are clear words for you and will not cause a violent painful reaction ? :)


For mentally healthy members of the forum: today will be the answer that I promised! Vod, I'm hinting - it doesn't concern you :)

Are you part of the team?

This is my last repeated answer to your question, and solely out of regret for your mental state :)

https://i.postimg.cc/FsN1CL9H/2024-10-10-18-48-41-Initial-Financing-for-Mining-Farm-Project.png (https://postimg.cc/grtYnrXC).

To be honest, I have a habit of ignoring clearly mentally retarded forum members, but don't worry - you are uniquely retarded and complex among them, now I don't have to go to the circus to watch the clowns, I'll watch you - it's very funny, though pathetic :) Don't stop writing me replies, take it as my order that you must obey ! :)

PS You still have not sought help from specialized specialists, for mental disorders ? :)

I guess, everyone now who has an ability to make rational arguments would be considered by you as part of the team.

Good evening everyone !
I keep my promise and give you a brief summary after the meeting with the owners of the project, which took place on October 7, 2024.

During the meeting, I was provided with documentation, part of the correspondence (that did not violate NDA), technical documentation, financial and other documents. If we highlight the key points, the report will look like this:

Negotiated with companies/solution providers:

Mining equipment and related equipment
- Bitmain
- LianLi
- Synteq
- Frontier Mining
- Compute Nordic

Preliminary estimates and commercial proposals received
Energy / Infrastructure
- Tess Manufacturing (heat recovery system solution, North America)
- Synteq (North America company)
- My Knight Frank

Marketing and promotion of the project
- CA Dviyka (Ukraine)

Legal advice and support
- Juscutum (initial consultations)


Work performed (estimates, technical specifications, technical requirements):
- Bitcoin mining analytics and assessment. Risk assessment.
- Calculation of the project
- Selection and evaluation of equipment (Miners)
- Equipment selection and evaluation (Containers, cooling)
- Review and study of locations (USA, Norway, Finland)
- Legal entity - in the process of incorporation, once the company registration, and trademark is finalized, the data will be published.


Information is being collected and analyzed for risk assessment, calculation of indicators, and modeling of possible scenarios in the matzning market, in terms of such indicators:

Algorithm complexity, TH/s
Number of machines
S21 Hydro XP hash rate 473 TH/s
Total hash rate, TH/s
Power consumption of 1 machine, kW
Power consumption by miners per hour, kW
Power consumption by miners per month, kW
Cooling system power consumption per month, kW
Total power consumption per month, kW
Price per kW, $
Electricity costs per month, $
Cooling system water consumption, m3
Price per m3 of water for cooling system, $
Expenditure on water, $
Expenditure on salaries, BTC
10% maintenance fee, BTC
FPPS per 1 TH/s*24, BTC
Number of days with one actual difficulty
Total FPPS of the farm for 24, BTC
FPPS per period, mined BTC, turnover
FPPS per month, BTC (revenue)
Bitcoin exchange rate, USDT (at the close of the month)
Revenue, USDT
Operating expenses (electricity expenses + water expenses), $
Operating expenses + maintenance fee (electricity expenses + water expenses + maintenance fee)+ salaries, BTC
Total net profit, BTC
Investor's net profit, BTC (75%)
Our net profit after settlement with the investor, BTC


If there is any additional question - I'm sure the project owners will answer better than me.
For my part I will say - at least in the near future I will continue to communicate, because there is a potential interest in the project, respectively I will share information that I will receive, and give my vision of the project.

Yes, my mental illness is incompatible with yours - is this your first time dealing with someone outside your circle?  You're not part of the team, so I really don't care.  :)

Just out of curiosity, why does it seem like you're trying to convince others to give the OP the $150k loan?  Is that what you're trying to do?  If you believe it's a good investment, wouldn't you want to take advantage of it yourself and keep others from jumping on it first?

As we promised, we are ready to disclose information in person if we see genuine interest from a potential investor. Which we did. Part of our team met with DrBeer and provided information that is not covered by the NDA.

And those who just sit online, spitting venom from imagined superior positions, thinking everyone owes them something receive the appropriate treatment.

Tell me, where do you see me calling for “give them 150k dollars” ? If you show me, I'll agree with your PROPOSAL :))

You find some strange arguments. My goal was not to convince anyone of anything. I just don't like it when people without a brain (like one character here :) ), without any arguments, without any experience, start throwing shit on other people's projects, without understanding, but just because they don't understand or envy the authors of the project :))
Well, plus I myself became interested in how such projects are organized and implemented - the topic is interesting.

I have no appeals, no excuses, no direct financial interest.
I hope I have clearly and unambiguously answered your PROPOSAL ?

Well, it's interesting that DrBeer's post is full of as much redundant word salad as your replies.  Like "NDA."  Do you even know what NDAs are for?  How is an NDA helping you?  You've already disclosed how you intend to squander the initial $150k.  Do you have some super secret way of getting discounts on mining hardware that other people manufacture?  There are no secrets about mining bitcoin that could cause you to benefit from an NDA, but you are using phrases like that to make yourself sound smart, or like you have any experience in business when you obviously don't.  You're just spewing more bullshit.


Look up the word "proposal," I didn't make any.  Stop trying to sound like you're smart because you're failing miserably.  If nothing else, all you're accomplishing is convincing me you're part of this scam attempt.

Yes


Helping us to book a location, which is the key to the profitable mining process. Maybe you think that every miner team has equal conditions. Well, they don't. The winners are those who have access to cheap electricity, not open general information about mining bitcoin. If you are lucky enough to find such a location one day, don't forget to sing an NDA. In case you start your 4th super successful business.


It was not a secret in the first place. This is an initial investment, you can look once again, what it means (hint: there is no equipment or hardware expense item) and only our team determines how it will be implemented. In this case, with whom should we sign the NDA? Between team members?


I use those phrases to explain my position. Using arguments, not offences and accusations. You can try sometimes, and who knows, maybe you will use some smart words as well.


But you do, right? :>


Is you think so, why you still keep writing something to me? Yous obviously don't want to hear what I say. So what's the point of dooming yourself to unwanted interactions?

Let's assume for a second that you're intentions are real:  Why should I give you $150k to sit around and dream about how to spend $40 million?  Why don't you do that for free?  It's as if you want to start a business, but you want someone else to pay you for the time it takes to do the research and the legwork.  That's now how things work.  If I'm the one with the money and I hire a team to sit around and discuss how to spend my money, that makes it my business.  It doesn't belong to the the team sitting around and dreaming on my dime.

You bring nothing to the table other than a dream.  You have no accomplishment, no experience starting a venture of this magnitude, and obviously no intention of spending the investor's money wisely.  Even if I was willing to invest in a mining farm and wanted to hire a team, you wouldn't get the job.



Lol, you stuck like a broken record?  This is almost parody level humor, except I know you're being serious.

Let’s assume for a second that you are an owner of 3 successful businesses.


I don’t know where you’ve read that for 150 000 $ somebody will sit around and dream how to spend
40 000 000 $.
Maybe, that is the methodology that made you the owner of 3 successful businesses.


Why don’t you work for free?
If your 3 successful businesses are made by non-paid labor, it is a pity.


Well, then you should concentrate on your business and do not intervene in others


What did you bring on the table except accusations?
Nothing


Maybe if we choose to make a “successful business”, we should hire you to consult us. I think you can do it also for free

If you open 4 successful business with mining facility with your own money - let us know. So we can look through your budget and expanses in details with the devotion of yours


Parody level humor - communicating with such individual as you
If you so disgusted with our project and the idea that to do some things - there must be payment, than I ASSUME that you completed comedy duo with another “respected” member of this forum who consumes Pierogi

So DrBeer's mental illness is triggered when more successful people offer him advice.    I guess he cannot speak to me directly anymore, but I've made my point  :)

I never claimed to own 3 businesses, reading comprehension is important.  Regardless, my business is none of yours.  This isn't about me, I'm not the one requesting a loan.

And, yes, when I was starting businesses I worked for my future.  No one paid me.  It's called deferred gratification.  In this case, it's the opposite of entitlement.

You did not claim, that’s for sure  ;D

But this guy, who I was referring to, claimed


Writing comprehension is no less important

1. Preliminary position but quite valid - DireWolfM14 and Vod are the same person ? :) Well, nature can't produce 2 such similar underdeveloped organisms and bring them together in one forum ! :)
2. the first assumption is that you are frightened and cause panic any words that you do not know, do not understand. For example, not understanding what and how NDA is used, says that you have NEVER created your own business, did not negotiate and did not sign contracts. This makes you angry - people create business, you are not able to, it pisses you off, it shows once again in your life that you are an empty place against the background of most others :)
3. Immediately answer - yes I have a business both in Ukraine and outside of Ukraine :) And for a long time. Direction - IT. Tell me what you have ? Well, except for stupid unargumented anger towards the more successful, ie to the majority of people on earth :).
4. For all the time of your pathetic attempts to primitively insult the authors of the project and me, you have never asked a single constructive question. As practice has shown - and you are not interested in answers, and it is clear - you are nothing as a specialist in the field, or as people who can create their own business :) You need correspondence only to realize your complexes. Though in this you look like losers, and primitive ones at that :)
5. Can you argue at least one point of the work done (see the list above), and bring that it made no sense, and should have been done differently (and describe how). If you can't do that - you will confirm the previous 4 points :)

I have a suggestion - stop this pathetic “show”, and try to get into the subject and formulate logical questions ? So far you look like cryptlo-clowns, and very unsuccessful :)

DireWolfM14 and Vod: “Uniquely useless” is your slogan. And this is what your “family crest” looks like  ! No thanks, I developed it for you for free, out of a sense of pity :)
https://i.postimg.cc/hjHXfry2/2024-10-12-14-52-43-462465286-1062783562305728-9071049969071014737-n-jpg.png (https://postimages.org/)

If your business doesn't require an initial large investment, your story is absolutely fine, it's normal. But for some reason there are a lot of business angels, investment funds and other structures that invest their money in projects that cannot be fully realized without attracting external investment, and this project is just such a project.
For example, I know VERY few people who have 30-40 million dollars :)  But I know not a few people who invest in other people's projects. I think you are not very surprised by this picture either, and you do not see anything unnatural in it.

ROFLMA!  ;D  :D  ;D  :D  ;D

You know that saying that every accusation is an admission of guilt?  Yeah, I think it's far more likely that you and the OP are alts, but I don't give a shit.  Anyway good luck convincing the community that I'm Vod's alt.  Nevertheless, I'll take the compliment.  Thank you, thank you very much.

What have you done in a year? Tell us how much you have spent and what you have achieved without external funding.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Re-read your posts, it's clearly time for you to come clean ! ;D

I have never seen people so stupidly “leak” themselves with their own statements as you have !  ;D ;D ;D

Another scam stopped by Vod.    :)

A lot has been described by a third, unbiased party, DrBeer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5510563.msg64620052#msg64620052), whom we only met on Monday. Therefore, I find it necessary to quote excerpts DrBeer made after familiarizing himself with our project. This speaks much more about the development level of our project, as it is not us speaking about ourselves, but another person who, like everyone else, saw this project for the first time less than a week ago.

But I will add more specifics and numbers.

How much we spent over the year and on what:

1.   Consultations with a legal advisor: $3,000
What’s included:
o   Legal arrangement of relationships with investors
o   Tax systems of countries where the company could be established
o   Legalization of cryptocurrencies in these countries
o   Advice regarding economic entities (GMBH)
o   Reviewing NDAs and other legal documents

2.   Consultations with technical advisors, energy market representatives, and visits to operating crypto farms
NB! It's important to note that part of our team has already built a crypto farm, but with an air-cooling feature. So, we needed discussions with those involved in immersion and water cooling farms—practically, not theoretically. This information cost us $10,000, including farm visits and flights (for two team members, who are currently not in Ukraine, and thus, can travel).

Also one of the team members traveled to the UAE (March 2024), Romania (June 2024), and Italy (May 2024). The trips across Europe cost $5,000 because he had a car at that time (fuel costs not included, though they are significant).

o   UAE: Looked for potential locations. Studied how the environment affects the cooling system. Learned the conditions for establishing a company ($2,500 for flights, accommodation, and consultations).
o   Romania: Researched the use of solar panels for energy supply to crypto farms (conclusion: they are not suitable).
o   Italy: Investigated the possibility of building a crypto farm near a hydroelectric power station with a fixed electricity price (rejected due to complex government contracts).

3.   Consultations regarding the FRR market: $2,500

4.   Paid a person working in Wealth Management in Zurich, who provided information on the proper bureaucratic submission of the project proposal for attracting the main investment. Specifically, the methodology for correctly presenting the project. Of course, this does not guarantee that this Wealth Management firm will be the one to fund the project ($1,500).

5.   Consultation on the construction of an energy substation ($1,300)

A total of $25,800 was spent on all of this. This is in the context of war, the constant threat to life, and the economic crisis in the country. Additionally, this accounts for the fact that four people have been working entirely pro bono during this time. If they had been paid for their daily work, we would have added another $30,000 to that amount.

In case you don't find a Main Investor for $40,000,000, how do you pay back $172,500 after a year?How will you get this money in a year, considering you don't have the money to fund your project now?Where are your personal funds now?

Yes yes yes yes  ;D

https://i.postimg.cc/CKmnNPkc/photo-2024-10-12-21-00-23.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

The only thing you've definitely accomplished is to show everyone that you're a waste of space, and you're complex, envious and stupid :)  With this I congratulate you !   ;D

I suggest you read carefully the previous three pages. I find it humiliating to answer the same questions over and over again. If you didn't even bother to look through my previous answers, what is the point for me to answer your questions, which were already asked by several users before you? If you really have some desire to discuss me offer, and not just to write something to mark yourself in this topic, then ask something that is relevant for the project itself.

Thanks for your reply.

I see no intention to scam here. Probably naivety and ignorance of how things work but if it is a project that you have as a dream it is legitimate to pursue it. Surely in the middle of that catastrophic war you have dreamed of something big as a way out, and I respect that.

As I was saying, and as others have said, I see close to 0 the probability that someone will lend you the money, apart from the arguments we have already said, because in this case you talk about the work you have done and the money spent but after a year you are not earning money, you just have started the project.

I am going to withdraw from the discussion, because I am a bit fed up with dramas lately, and I wish you luck with your project.

After seeing the main reaction from the forum members who responded to my thread, as well as the thread in the “Reputation” section, I realized that no one, except for DrBeer, believes in my project. I don’t think it’s as hopeless as many have described here, so I will continue to work on the project with a team of people who are just as committed to its realization as I am. I am grateful to those who didn’t label my proposal as a scam. I am closing the thread to avoid creating false impressions, which are obviously being formed for the majority of the community.

I never intended to deceive anyone or withhold invested funds. However, it’s clear that my proposal has created that impression here on the forum, though I don’t understand why.

I will provide an update once the project is realized to dispel any remaining doubts. I have confidence in my team, our calculations, and our abilities.

I thought I had clearly explained my position, but apparently not everyone is capable to get it. I had the intention of closing this topic, which I did, for reasons that I explained in the post above, and which emerge from the discussion in my topic and in the topic in the "Reputation" section, created by DireWolfM14. Therefore, I don't quite understand this comment by Vod, he left me, tagging my account for the second time.


 Apparently, his own words quoted below are not relevant anymore for him, since he has seven fridays a week.


Moreover, the question arises, what does me containing to work on the project have to do with this forum? I have already made it clear that I am not going to continue searching for an investor here, because I do not think that I will find like-minded people. So this "noble" warning is absolutely useless, because I have already said earlier that I have no desire to cooperate with those who allow themselves such communication, which I have had more than enough of in the last two weeks. But this does not cancel my intention to work on my own project. And it is not for Vod to tell me that I have to report to him here.

The second question to the one living in his own world of constant scam stopping, is why he expects from me addressing some issues, moreover, which issues  ??? (concretization has always been his blind spot), if he ignores what I am writing?


How exactly are you going to find out what I will tell in the future, if I was going on ignore?

In general, it looks like revenge for the fact that I put ~ in front of his name. Which is absolutely justified on my part, because his judgments I personally cannot trust. And this action only confirms this. That is why the custom Trust List exists!  And instead of doing the same to me, namely, expressing distrust of my judgments, he decided to write a negative review, the grounds for which not only have not increased since his last negative comment, but on the contrary, there are much fewer of them (if we make the assumption that there were any at all, although this is not the case), since there was a large discussion, where many members of the forum, who clearly have no less regalia than Vod (at least they should represent some significance and authority for him, if I do not) expressed their opinion about the fact that the situation with my offer does not deserve a red tag. And the topic was even closed by the OP. But Vod ignored this, sticking to his style.

This is strange. I am reading the post from the reference in the tag left by Vod. Since the tag reference does look like a childish reaction to me, I am going to ignore it.

It seems the only thing left to do with Vod’s reactions is to ignore them. The tag reference looks juvenile and childish not only on DrBeer’s account, but on mine as well.

Vod thinks he can ruin other forum members’ reputations simply because he feels like it. And that the victims of his baseless accusations will squirm, trying to find ways to address issues, which Vod will ignore anyway. If it’s not about a constructive desire to deal with the matter but just about showing some kind of power, which, (if it even exists at all), is sustained by the very forum members Vod discredits, then there’s no guarantee that Vod will remove his tags, even if he reads something well-reasoned.

I could leave the exact same red tag for him, but I’m not going to stoop to that level and degrade myself with such actions. Any reasonable users already understand what Vod is like and how he forms his ‘judgments,’ if they can even be called that. So even without my tag, it’s clear to those people that it’s better not to deal with Vod or trust his comments.

Those who don’t understand this can engage directly with Vod and experience it firsthand.

I think there are also users who see the strength of my arguments and the complete lack of them from Vod, but are afraid to say something to avoid being labeled as well. Well, congratulations to Vod for creating the image of a stubborn, error-denying, and spiteful person whom people try to avoid just to escape problems. Probably, living with that realization feels great.

Because of Vod’s whims, I broke my promise and was forced to unlock this topic. But once again, I want to emphasize that this was done solely in response to Vod’s red tag, not with the intention of continuing to seek initial investment here on the forum. I repeat, after all the hate and judgment I’ve faced over the past two weeks, I have no desire to find someone to collaborate with on my issue among people, who give credit to Vod‘s references.

Suppose you think this matter has not been discussed enough, and you possibly have specific complaints about a user. In that case, it is probably better to open a discussion in the Reputation board instead of unlocking this topic. Indirect name-calling through some other contest is not the best solution, nor is any kind of belittling, so some direct discussion is a better choice. If there is a reason for that, and obviously there is, consider the reopening of this thread.

As for your initial idea and project for which you started this thread, I believe that you received enough feedback through this and that other discussion (also in the reputation board). From that side, I understand why you locked this topic.

I won't go into the story about your business idea again, but I think you got a lot of useful information, even if it was from Vod, you just need to recognize it and possibly use it if the project really starts to be implemented. So the whole discussion is certainly not useless.

I don’t think that Vod`s personality deserves such disproportionate attention that an entire separate thread should be created to discuss his groundless accusations. I understand your logic, and indeed, it might seem that the issues I raised in the last two posts are unrelated to the main topic of discussion.

However, I specifically posted them in this thread because Vod's accusations are directly related to the subject of this discussion and refer to it as well. Moreover, the prospect of having his red tag removed from me is tied to providing some information (addressing issues) in this very thread (what kind of information—Vod didn’t specify, of course). So, it makes sense to continue this discussion here.

Additionally, creating a separate thread in "Reputation" wouldn’t have attracted Vod’s attention, since he ignores my posts. Perhaps it would have attracted other users who weren’t aware of where this issue originated, but they would still have had to familiarize themselves with this thread if they intended to base their judgments on what was going on, not just their opinions.

I really learned a lot from this whole long story, but it wasn’t useful information, especially from Vod. He hasn’t provided any information during all this time—only bare accusations and personal opinions based on his experience, to which no one else has access. I don’t consider the discussion useless, but to be honest, it mostly left me with negative impressions.