Bitcoin Forum

I am 31 years old, lucky enough to be financially affluent( not rich). But everyday I see people, by that I mean friends, cousins, uncles and coworkers all always in tight financial situations. These are good people, kind people who would help u when u are in need.

Why did human invent money, it is the root cause of most of the problem in our world.

I wish we had a world without money, surely there must be a better way than this necessary evil  :(

Are we people doomed to be narrow minded and selfish. Is money the only carrot for us donkeys.

my fate in humanity is at an all time low.

Why cant I trust u not to screw me and why cant u trust me not to cheat u  :(. We will all be better of if only we could trust.

sorry this is off topic and I am just sick of the rat race.

You're not alone my friend but there's nothing we could do about it at all.
Money=god of this era sadly.

Going back to simple way of living would be nice indeed. Trading commodities and helping one and another out, but would we have all this technology without money?

technology can exist without money, its human nature of distrust that leads to such suffering and idiotic world

boy..

I wouldn't like to live in that world :D

I like my bitcoins :)

Money isn't the root of all evil - people are. Money is just a logical medium, but it's human greed and materialism that causes most of the problems.

yeah it creates many like problem like " we do not buy clothes,food and house without money . all these three things are  necessity of humans for survivor ":)

Indeed, but we are greedy and gluttonous. We only need a little to survive or be comfortable, but people want lots of food and clothes and big houses, and people can buy them all with money.

The money itself is not the problem. The modern society is. Everyone thinks he's better with a smartphone in one hand and car keys in the other. Media shout every day "you need a new phone, you need clothes designed by that guy". If there are no money people will find other valuables to trade with like diamonds, precious metals and continue to buy junk they don't need.

Would be like a hundred years ago, to get what we want we have to Trading commodities,  would be no Technology, No Sport Car, No Fancy Jewelry, only, how to farming.

At least if I grow food on my farm and eat it, the government won't take part of my food in taxes :D

i have always thought about a world without money. wouldnt this work if you didnt have to pay for anything and everyone was given the sme thing and the same food and water and such every month . we would still have our jobs that you could be tested into as a child. woudlnt this help society a lto?

As soon as collectivized production reaches a surplus a market will emerge to distribute whatever surplus is produced. If you don't want markets there is central planning or participatory planning for distribution alternatives.

So you can't really go backward to individual production as in what transpired before complex social organization emerged so you have to go forward.

However there are technical advances that will enable individualized production again without real surplus being developed now. If we are able to decentralize or even individualize production and political economy through technical means there would be no need to for the individual produce surpluses for sale in order to actualize their potential.

There is also the idea of each citizen receiving a living wage simply for existing, in which collective production could remain but you still have automation of most jobs to consider.

Anyway you slice it coercive economic pressure to control behavior or to enforce social conformity is counterproductive when long range considerations are part of the perspective.

The actual purpose of money is to provide a standard in which social status can be symbolized. The more money you have the more access to society's production you are entitled to.

So that is the entire motivation for  it. It's pretty primitive really because it's still just a fancy version of shells or beads that were used for this purpose in earlier times.

faith in TRANSACTION is what we need.

a boolean credit card that either accepts or denys your transaction based on your lives story (hee hee)

Money is simply a tool of exchange, with which two parties may trade values in a way that benefits both, without having the problem of finding a buyer for bartering specific goods you produced.
There's nothing evil about this.
The fiat system is indeed corrupted in an evil way, but a currency whose value is not based on whims of political parties solves that problem (of course, Bitcoin) .

Please, if you're not convinced, read this excerpt from a book by Ayn Rand, about money: http://capitalismmagazine.com/2002/08/franciscos-money-speech/ (http://capitalismmagazine.com/2002/08/franciscos-money-speech/)

Ayn Rand?

c'mon

This is the truth right here.  MONEY IS GOD.. Paper.. controlled by a select few has become our god.

Money.. or at least the idea is needed though as trading for everything just won't work.  The problem is our monetary system is controlled by a cartel.

well once we get credit cards workin we can get a public credit card for poor people that withdrawals from Bitcoin wallet 2112

Money is nothing but an exchange medium. Its us that are making it evil. We are running for money all our life rather than enjoying it. Its become a human mature to do this. And if we don't change will be go on damaging our lives and everthing thing else, for just a trading medium

Care to elaborate?

not true.  rich people aren't happy.  look at that happy couple who r*ped their own daughter.  what a pest

http://media.salon.com/2012/10/mitt_immigration_square2-1280x960.jpg

i'm not Mitt, but close.  and i'd rather not post the guy that just dodged jail because his daughter is a little snaddily poo  :'(

You get payed in a sort of good that you'll trade for something else, it would be more or less the same thing

Gonna be boring everyday.

BS. We will not be able to function properly without some sort of money.

What makes you think that?

because someone gave me 2600BTC for free in 2009 means it's my obligation to share them  

i will put them in an unlimited credit card account (brainwallet 21121)

we will be the Priests of Syprinx together!!

that's communism, the one who started such a project would probably get some "freedom" from the US and it's minions :D

Thankfully, there are less and less nation willing to go down that route.
Even Communism uses money. When the USSR was founded, they printed an insane amount of money, which made poor all of the population, even those that used to belong to the bourgeoisi and were quite rich. That's how they could control them so easily.

If we didn't had money to trade, we would have used something less easier. For example KG's of salt, or breads etc.

There's no world where people all do things for eachother without a return. In the end, everyone has to eat.

Because even barter is some sort of money. And no one can become 100% self sufficient.

Agree, I share that vision that allmost no one can become self sufficient. I think there are some people which really are. They live in jungles, and eat by collecting foods and hunting.

But then the question, do you want to live like that? I like the more luxiour life, allthough this means that  yes, we've to work to get salary = cash = money to pay for things.

You are right, I am very wealthy thanks to bitcoin

But yes I think a world without money would be interesting but we have to rely on each other and work together in harmony no religion no politics

Money does not imply not living in harmony. In fact, the history of human nature taught us that in absense of money and fair bartering, the most used alternative is violence.

May be possible theoretically. But definitely not practical.

Is hard to imagine a world without money since from 12,000 B.C people are using it.

The Native Americans did not believe in ownership of land or natural resources.  If only this philosophy could work around the world, it would make for a much better place.  Human greed rules though, cant fight that fact. 

     Money is not the point of life- but the trick is, if you can convince people that it is, you can make yourself rich in the process.


   I always think we the story of the Israelites escaping Egypt is so important in the world's religions- and why are religions from the Mid East so dominant? Why didn't west african religion or religion from the south pacific spread over the whole world? The fertile river valleys of the middle east are probably where people migrating out of Africa landed and it's where civilization has been the longest as far as we know.

   The Egyptians were really wealthy and had a hierarchical society- the closer to the Pharoah you were, the more power you got. Power is the freedom to do what you want, and property confers power. This is the problem in the liberal paradigm of liberty- liberty is a zero sum game- some people increase their liberty at the expense of others.

      The reason people want money is to satisfy their desires, but the more you feed the desires, the bigger they get, like feeding a fire. If you drive a fast car it is fun for a while, but soon you want a faster car. If you are doing cocaine, you just want more and more. If you have a hot woman, you want a hotter one.

   That's why the spiritual teachers have taught that the key to happiness is not money, but appreciation. If we focus on being grateful for what we have and making the best of it, we will be happy. A good way to be grateful is to remember that we didn't create any of what we have, and to remember where all of what we have, body, health, air, water, food, family, where it came from.

      The American revolution was essentially about property- the feudal system was that God owns everything, and the Pope or Cardinal says that the King is the King because God says so, and then everyone just leases their property from the King. The American revolution said that anybody can own stuff- this was also the same basic message of Islam. So probably these ideas worked their way up into Europe, resulting in the Enlightenment and then the American revolution. But people are missing the message that property is not the purpose of life- the purpose of life is to remember where we came from, and to use our property not just for unlimited personal gratification, but to use for to do good. Property is just a means to live and an opportunity- what we give we take with us when we die, and what we keep for ourselves we leave behind.

one word, communism

altough even communists didn't have what it takes to finally pull it off..

I'm actually pretty sad they didn't, because that was the only thing that might have been successful in their plan as I see it :D

Imagine all the inventions that have come forward and made your life easier because of people that wanted to make money

Even today, there are several isolated tribal societies who don't use any type of money / barter. But do we want to live like them?

without money, you could end up starving to death.
think of it this way.
if you removed all forms of money you're left with trading goods and services for the things you need.
now what you'd have to do is keep swapping locally one good to get another good that you need.
money removes all that senseless swapping and says "here is something that you can trade for any item".
it turns a long process into a simple and easy one.

+1
And imagine you're working for a car company. How will they pay you? They'll give you a car every year? Or perhaps a windshied per day?
A world without money makes no sense, unless you want to go back to antiquity.

We have a society built around greed.  People think "what can I do to make the most money?"

Money facilitates greed.  It's sole purpose is to divide materials into yours and mine.

We can build a world that revolves around love.  People would then think "what can I do to help the most people?"

Once that happens, people would share things.  When people share things you are exchanging an item for energy.  When you receive something, you may feel burdened by possessing goods from other people or earth, so it's in your best interest to receive as little as you need to be as happy as you can.

When you give things away, you receive positive energy, peace, happiness.  If you help a lot of people, you will feel pretty satisfied about what you had done.

What would then happen is the entire world would become a more positive place.  We would all build off each other's positivity and, with time, would experience world peace.

So long as money exists, greed will taint the minds of those who seek to manipulate other's with corruption.  World peace is not achievable with a monetary system in place.

Technology would evolve exponentially.  Instead of companies seeking to extract the most money for the least amount of efficacy or upgrades, they would be completely devoted to helping create the most revolutionary products with no concern if it's a profitable venture or not.

Like minded individuals would work together, in unison, for the betterment of mankind.  Our entire planet would work as the one being we are and we would experience the largest evolutionary leap man has yet to see.

All it takes is love.  Love is free, abundant and ultimately, infinite.  There is energy for all and there is no limit on how much peace you can feel.

Of course you would want debt cancelled.  You owe Squall thousands of dollars, and you are not making regular payments.  Scammer.  :(

Ha, how did I know you would post instantaneously?

Because you scam for a living, and have noticed a pattern?

Money does not make love impossible. Money trains people to love value, and some humans are worth more than others.
I totally disagree that a society where everybody loves everybody would be positive, because giving undeserved love encourages mediocrity. You have to work for it, to be loved, or why work at all? That mentality transform people with potential into worthless slugs.

Technology would evolve exponentially? I doubt this. What would be the incencitive? In your society, when people will see that there's a great mind who's able to create a great technology, they'll use him as a sacrificial animal to build them the things that they need but do not deserve. And with time, this mind will become dull and will be closed to the world. Great minds deserve great rewards, hence the use of money. Ever heard of a great technology that began in a communist country?

Love is a noble ideal, and I feel great love for all animals, for the universe as a whole, for science, but it's impossible to love all humans. Since we are of the same species, preferences are inevitable, and these preferences are in line with our internal sense of value. Giving value, on the form of love, to someone who has not deserved it by giving us a value we recognize, is nothing less than fraud to the most important part of our inner being.

I believe world peace is possible, but only in a world where people's sense of value is not corrupted by a society, like that which you describe, that favours a kind of love that's given even to human beings that are worthless to our happiness.

And I'll finish by saying that greed is not inherently bad. There's nothing wrong with having wealth that you deserved because you created a product, a service, that is valuable to people, that is valuable because it gives happiness to them.

P.S. Sorry if it sounded like an attack to your ideal; it is not, your opinion is quite noble and has value too.

How can a loving society not be positive when the very essence of love is positivity?

Everyone deserves love.  If they cannot love theirself, including others, then they are deciding their own fate.

We are one being, we are a family.  A family should love, trust and work in unison, not against each other.  Otherwise, is it really a family?


I love all humans.

"With the power of soul, anything is possible" Jimi Hendrix

World peace requires unity.  Money's very purpose is to divide things.

Money does not make the world go round, we do.  Society could be the exact same without money, except without tyrannical governments and corrupt financial institutions, bribery, war, poverty, all which become meaningless without the motivation of greed.

We live in a world of fear when we can live in a world of love and peace, and that's nothing to fear.  Otherwise, we will be the cause of our own extinction.  We all have the choice to make.

Money is not the element that makes us live in a world of fear. What does that is lack of self-love, and lack of love of life (I think we agree on that?). What's causing that pessimism has nothing to do with money, but by how society as a whole is treating human being as slaves. In a world with a free money that is controlled simply by traders interests (everyone is a trader), like Bitcoin, nobody would be a slave - everyone would control his money (rather than their government controlling it), therefore, their method of production, therefore, their self-worth. That would make people love themselves, and only when one loves one-self can he learn to truly love life and every other person who cherish life.

You say you love all human, but how can you love a person that does not love life, who has no passion, and therefore is not even a whole human being? I have trouble understanding that.

Bitcoin does not emancipate us from slavery.  It is still a greed based system where the people with the most bitcoins will have the most influence and thus the same thirst for power will repeat.

It definitely is a step in the right direction.  But it will not bring peace.  Even now, some of the richest bitcoiners are those who scammed them from others.  So why wouldn't they continue to do so?

Money is not the root of evil, it is our own ego that does so.  Money is simply a tool created by our ego to facilitate greed, inequality and separation.


I feel that we are all conscious beings.  Everyone is a good person deep down, everyone has love, has a consciousness, and that is why I love everyone.  We are all one.

You can't be negative forever in this world, it literraly kills you to do so and is the cause of your own destruction.  You can, however, be positive forever.  Positivity is limitless.  We can make it so everyone in this planet is feeling a rise of energy, love, at the same time.  When that happens there is no negativity to stop this planet ascending into a higher form of consciousness where people feel infinite peace.

I have felt infinite peace through an egodeath experience.  It is very much real and it is truly the greatest thing existence has to offer.  No amount of material wealth or control could ever amount to the infinite power of love.

Indeed, it's a real shame that so much Bitcoins are kept by worthless hackers.

Glad you agree on this :)
I believe a system like that which you describe would work for a small group, where everyone that belongs in it adds value to the group, like the communes in the 60's. Why? It's because we are animals (and I don't mean this in a negative way). All animals live in relatively small groups, because the brain is not adapted to be able to recognize its affiliation with a huge number of individuals - about 100 at best. In a money-less society, there will always be a scum that will find a way to take control by brute force. In a small commune, this is not a problem since there won't be the mob-effect that will make people dumb enough to give that scum power in the first place, so your idea of an ideal society would work well for that. Money is a tool for human to live in bigger groups than this, because with it, everyone can have a concrete power to stay free from the power-hungry looters that have nothing to offer to society.

I agree that being always negative is evil, but so is being always positive. I believe in rationality and in the trust of one's inner values :)
This ego-death I have experienced too, though we seem to have interpreted it differently :)

Thanks for explaining your idea in many paragraphs. I hope mine were readable too, since english is not my primary language.